Hi !
I make this topic to understand things that I never understand.
I'm a relly big fan of A:CM. But I'm aware of the big problems of production, scams of comm' and the bad gameplay. But I love the story.
I have studied major critics on A:CM and I have some answers to them. It is not a fight but see that as a thing that I don't understand and I need logical answers.
First of all, I'm not just a fan of Alien, but the franchise is my passion. All my life turn around Alien, I think about it all the time, I live for Alien. So that is the proof that we can love A:CM and love Aliens too, because it is something that I saw sometimes.
And about that, I think people hurt themselves for nothing. Alien is a franchise of entertainment, it is make to be good, so why do you spend energy to hate it ? If you don't like something, just ignore it, but why hated it ? It is a content which is proposed to you, not impose, you don't like it then try to forget it. I think you hurt yourselves but s**t it's Alien ! As a passionate, I'm really happy when something is new in Alien, no matter if it's bad of good, it's Alien, it will just make more content. For example, I don't like much A Comic Book Adventure, but I don't hate it, it is a part of the Alien franchise, that's all. It seems that you make it as a major problem, but again, it is entertainment.
After, about the canon thing, I have a problem with the words "canon" and "continuity". Those words are synonymous, but I prefer "continuity" because people don't seem to understand the meaning of canon. Why a lot of people are submitted on what is canon or what isn't ? It looks like it's mandatory. Before I thought canon means cotinuity but now it is clear that it's not anymore like this. For example, some people don't take A:CM in the chronology of the main Alien timeline, whereas it respect it : same characters, same places, same story. But these people consider Dead Orbit as canon. And you have absolutely no problem that there is no link with the chronology ? How do you do to accept that ?
For the main critics on A:CM, I noted that : graphics, IA, story.
I don't understand people who says that A:CM is not canon just because of the graphics or IA. Okay it is not a good tribute to Aliens, it is not really immersive and it is not scary at all. But does that mean that it didn't happened in the story ? Continuity means story, just like canon. So I really don't understand why a bad graphics should be decisive to judge if it's in the story or not. For example, in Aliens, the special effects of the Dropship which is heading to LV-426 are not really well made. So that means that it is not canon ? I don't understand why graphics are linked to the story. Moreover, I realize that a lot of the haters are gamers and are more interested in the fact that it's a game instead of an Alien material. Personaly, I'm only interested in Alien et it is an Alien work first of all.
And for the story, there are the more constructive arguments I ever seen for the critics of A:CM. Because for me, graphics and IA are fake problems.
So the main inconsistencies are the problem of the 17 weeks and the presence of the colony after the detonation of the atmospheric processor. Same problem here, why people don't try to explain the problem while keeping it canon ? Same people think that River of Pain is canon, but there is the worst thing : a marines battalion was already at Hadley's Hope. Here, you try to find explanations to justify it, so why don't do that for A:CM ? Same for Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows, they are inconsistent with Alien Covenant, so why sould they be more canon than A:CM which respect the main story ? It is not complicatd to find explanations for the problems of A:CM.
Some of you linger on details in dialogs, very little problems everywhere. But in Isolation there are the same imperfections but nobody say anything nor call into question the legitimacy in the canon.
Since when it is a problem in the Alien franchise when there are unforgivable inconsistencies ? Alien is not canon because nothing in the universe can travel faster than light ? Aliens is not canon because Ripley should died during the decompression ? It is science fiction ! So why it is a problem that Bishiop was wrong and overevalued the power of the detonation ?
A lot of you love ACMTM but don't like A:CM. To those who are not aware, the story of A:CM is based on the book (thank's to gold to have open my eyes : https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55278.0 (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=55278.0) ). The story is absolutely great, return on the Sulaco, then Hadley's Hope, then Origin, it's just perfect !
I'm perfectly open to the discussion when the arguments are constructives, so obviously I don't listen the personal insults that I saw earlier. I just try to understand your points of view, your thoughts and I want to have answers to the arguments that I exposed. And again, I am really aware of the problems of this game. Me too I was expecting a lot more, when I saw concept arts, demos and trailers, I wanted so more... Same thing for the production, I have noticed the scams of Randy Pitchford and ofthe production team, they did it with their feet. But once again, I'm only thinking about the story.
Thank's to all you to read, I know that it is not really in the news but I try anyway, we'll see ;D
Bonus : I felt the biggest scam coming when I saw this intrview :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1cRpmgpUw&t=8s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1cRpmgpUw&t=8s)
For the 1è weeks thing, in french we can say that it is "f**king the fly" :D
Honestly, haven't read it but seeing the amount of text I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 16, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
Honestly, haven't read it but seeing the amount of text I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .
Maybe that's why you should read ?
Done
Quote from: Kradan on Oct 16, 2019, 01:47:02 PM
I got the feeling you put clicking time bomb here .
I'll stay with that
So you have no arguments to face with mine ? Perhaps you don't recognize yourself in the examples I quoted ?
I was about 12 when it came out. I barely knew anything about the game so I wasn't hyped so much. I played it through once and never came back to it. I got some enjoyment out of it. I guess, it just wasn't such a big disappointment to me as it seems was to others.
I don't have anything to add really. Just waiting to see other members' posts .
This horse has already been beaten so many times, not sure how many still want to go for another round.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
And about that, I think people hurt themselves for nothing. Alien is a franchise of entertainment, it is make to be good, so why do you spend energy to hate it ?
I have a lot of energy and its always recharging. I'm not losing anything.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
If you don't like something, just ignore it, but why hated it ?
I think that the hatred for ACM might have more to do with Gearbox and Randy's unethical behavior before and after the game's release. If the game was simply bad and without any expectation after so many years of development, it might have been easily ignored. But game developers lying and fooling people into buying something different than they are selling, using funds of the game for something else. They are just asking for it. Its not exclusive to this series, the ethics in the game industry have become more questionable over the years.
For me it wasn't that bad, I wasn't much into the series at that year, I don't preorder games, didn't play on launch. Bought after the price had decreased, patches to the gameplay had already been made, wasn't expecting much, enjoyed the gameplay in both the campaign and multiplayer. I only got angry after I learned of the controversies surrounding the game's development.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
After, about the canon thing, I have a problem with the words "canon" and "continuity". Those words are synonymous, but I prefer "continuity" because people don't seem to understand the meaning of canon. Why a lot of people are submitted on what is canon or what isn't ?
Fandoms care about that stuff. We had whole wars on this matter. For me its like this: I don't like when new entries are pushed as canon and end up directly contradicting other entries I consider canon or retcon stuff that was estabilished on the original movies. I like consistency in the series, when it gets messy, it feels like what is being done isn't credible and the people in charge don't know what they are doing. Its like we have to trade one entry for another since they don't fit well together, and what was established before is thrown into the trash.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
It looks like it's mandatory. Before I thought canon means cotinuity but now it is clear that it's not anymore like this. For example, some people don't take A:CM in the chronology of the main Alien timeline, whereas it respect it : same characters, same places, same story. But these people consider Dead Orbit as canon. And you have absolutely no problem that there is no link with the chronology ? How do you do to accept that ?
For me if the good outweighs the bad and its not directly contracting another entry that is better then its canon.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
I don't understand people who says that A:CM is not canon just because of the graphics or IA.
Never seen this. Its the plot that made people have a hard time taking it as canon.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
So the main inconsistencies are the problem of the 17 weeks and the presence of the colony after the detonation of the atmospheric processor. Same problem here, why people don't try to explain the problem while keeping it canon ? Same people think that River of Pain is canon, but there is the worst thing : a marines battalion was already at Hadley's Hope. Here, you try to find explanations to justify it, so why don't do that for A:CM ? Same for Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows, they are inconsistent with Alien Covenant, so why sould they be more canon than A:CM which respect the main story ? It is not complicatd to find explanations for the problems of A:CM.
This is a matter of how one does his own headcanon. Its all personal at this point, if you want to see ACM as part of the series then do it, most people don't. People liked those novels more than ACM so it was easier to accept them as canon. Other people don't accept any EU as canon, just the movies. Due to several plot points I don't feel the series has much to gain by having ACM as part of it.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
I have a lot of energy and its always recharging. I'm not losing anything.
Very funny ^^ but like I said, it is entertainment, it is not a state affair, it's just a game in a franchise which is make for fun, to enjoy it. What is the major problem which make the people very annoyed ? It is not so serious yes ?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
I think that the hatred for ACM might have more to do with Gearbox and Randy's unethical behavior before and after the game's release. If the game was simply bad and without any expectation after so many years of development, it might have been easily ignored. But game developers lying and fooling people into buying something different than they are selling, using funds of the game for something else. They are just asking for it. Its not exclusive to this series, the ethics in the game industry have become more questionable over the years.
For me it wasn't that bad, I wasn't much into the series at that year, I don't preorder games, didn't play on launch. Bought after the price had decreased, patches to the gameplay had already been made, wasn't expecting much, enjoyed the gameplay in both the campaign and multiplayer. I only got angry after I learned of the controversies surrounding the game's development.
Ah yes here I'm okay with you. But I'm only talk about the story and people seems to avoid this. The fact that people don't like the development shouldn't change their minds about the story which is tell in the game ! If the story is good, what's the matter ?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
Fandoms care about that stuff. We had whole wars on this matter. For me its like this: I don't like when new entries are pushed as canon and end up directly contradicting other entries I consider canon or retcon stuff that was estabilished on the original movies. I like consistency in the series, when it gets messy, it feels like what is being done isn't credible and the people in charge don't know what they are doing. Its like we have to trade one entry for another since they don't fit well together, and what was established before is thrown into the trash.
So are you okay to say that Isolation is not canon ? River of Pain, Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows ? Fire and Stone, Life and Death ?
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
For me if the good outweighs the bad and its not directly contracting another entry that is better then its canon.
Yes but Dead Orbit is just the same sort of stories as many others comics books : no origin of the Alien, unknown characters, no links with the original story. At least A:CM has the merit to be a part of the original continuity.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
Never seen this. Its the plot that made people have a hard time taking it as canon.
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but forgive me, a lot of person say that it's a bad game, piece of s**t game, wathever... without arguments. And this often comes up for the legitimacy of the game, whereas bad graphics are not contradicts the story I guess...
Quote from: Samhain13 on Oct 16, 2019, 06:17:20 PM
This is a matter of how one does his own headcanon. Its all personal at this point, if you want to see ACM as part of the series then do it, most people don't. People liked those novels more than ACM so it was easier to accept them as canon. Other people don't accept any EU as canon, just the movies. Due to several plot points I don't feel the series has much to gain by having ACM as part of it.
I prefer the people who don't take account of all of the EU, but just only the films. At least it is not just A:CM but Alien Isolation too so I'm reassured. I know it is personal, and it's exactly why I want to understand their logic, integrate in canon things which are totally inconsistent and reject things which are logical sequels... I don't understand and that's why I need answers ^^
You trolling? ACM' story is atrocious, it's voice acting is particularly dead in the water, and it's gameplay is at best mediocre. It isn't just people who care about Alien who hate it, it's the entire industry. Nearly every single aspect of it is sub par.
Being part of the "film continuity" doesn't automatically mean you're more worthwhile- that's absolute nonsense. Labyrinth's got no connection to the Alien Anthology and yet is regarded extremely highly.
For myself, the original AVP graphic novel, Monolith's AVP, AVPE, Alien, Aliens, Alien³ SE, (Perhaps Covenant), Labyrinth, Salvation, Sacrifice, Survival, Wraith, Glass Corridor, David's Drawings, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, Isolation, Infestation and The Cold Forge is the good content from the franchise within the universe. Not counting Predator stuff I'm not familiar with, or the tenuous Blade Runner connection. The universe is large, so most stories being disconnected from the Alien Anthology is just sensible.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
If the story is good, what's the matter ?
It's the story most fans of the franchise have their problems with. Apart from the getting scammed out of their money part, of course.
That it miss-uses established characters and tried to bastardized the movie continuity only makes it worse.
People would be way more forgiving if it was just a mediocre shooter with a good storyline.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Very funny ^^ but like I said, it is entertainment, it is not a state affair, it's just a game in a franchise which is make for fun, to enjoy it. What is the major problem which make the people very annoyed ? It is not so serious yes ?
The story is a mess and the gameplay was broken at the launch, required fanmade mods to make it more fun, the footage originally shown wasn't in the final game. When something is bad, people will critize it, that's how it works. If you liked it then fine. Others didn't.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Ah yes here I'm okay with you. But I'm only talk about the story and people seems to avoid this. The fact that people don't like the development shouldn't change their minds about the story which is tell in the game ! If the story is good, what's the matter ?
Because it not good and nobody avoids talking about it. People have said multiple times over the years how they don't like the story, voice acting, characters, whatever. Its bad regardless of the development.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
So are you okay to say that Isolation is not canon ? River of Pain, Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows ? Fire and Stone, Life and Death ?
People can have any personal canon they want. If one doesn't consider EU canon then its their problem. Isolation is sure one I think that should be canon, but if others don't want to its their way of seeing things.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Yes but Dead Orbit is just the same sort of stories as many others comics books : no origin of the Alien, unknown characters, no links with the original story.
I don't see the issue with that.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
At least A:CM has the merit to be a part of the original continuity.
That kind of worked against it. Part of the issue with ACM plot is how it retconed stuff from the original continuity, so the way it forced its way to be part of the original continuity was a bad thing. No merit there. If the story was done as it own thing, maybe people wouldn't have hated it so much.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
Maybe I'm wrong about this, but forgive me, a lot of person say that it's a bad game, piece of s**t game, wathever... without arguments. And this often comes up for the legitimacy of the game, whereas bad graphics are not contradicts the story I guess...
Most people think that both the story/characters/acting and gameplay/graphics/AI were bad. If they think everything is bad then they are going to say its a bad game. Sure with Templar's mod, the PC version looks better and its challeging, but most people didn't play that.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 17, 2019, 10:41:33 AM
I prefer the people who don't take account of all of the EU, but just only the films. At least it is not just A:CM but Alien Isolation too so I'm reassured. I know it is personal, and it's exactly why I want to understand their logic, integrate in canon things which are totally inconsistent and reject things which are logical sequels... I don't understand and that's why I need answers ^^
ACM ass pulled Hicks and Hadley's Hope back to life. People don't like the cheap way they retconned what was established in the moveis so they are going to ignore it. Isolation didn't do anything that severe, plus it was a good game, so people won't have much of a hard time taking it as canon.
Some people don't even consider the bad movies of the series to be canon. Its not exclusive to the EU.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Oct 17, 2019, 10:50:28 AM
You trolling? ACM' story is atrocious, it's voice acting is particularly dead in the water, and it's gameplay is at best mediocre. It isn't just people who care about Alien who hate it, it's the entire industry. Nearly every single aspect of it is sub par.
Being part of the "film continuity" doesn't automatically mean you're more worthwhile- that's absolute nonsense. Labyrinth's got no connection to the Alien Anthology and yet is regarded extremely highly.
For myself, the original AVP graphic novel, Monolith's AVP, AVPE, Alien, Aliens, Alien³ SE, (Perhaps Covenant), Labyrinth, Salvation, Sacrifice, Survival, Wraith, Glass Corridor, David's Drawings, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, Isolation, Infestation and The Cold Forge is the good content from the franchise within the universe. Not counting Predator stuff I'm not familiar with, or the tenuous Blade Runner connection. The universe is large, so most stories being disconnected from the Alien Anthology is just sensible.
I love all of the things in the EU, Labyrinth is really good, most of the comics of this time are too. But I make the distinction between canon (mine) and EU. Because most of the works in EU are not inside the continuity or they were relaced buy Alien 3 (with Book One, Book Two and all of the others following these events.
A:CM fits perfectly in the continuity of the films. That's what I think it is : canon. Because when we are all talking about what is canon it's about the continuity, the chronology, all the events happened. Book I, Book II, Génocide, Berserker, Labyrinth... All of those are in another timeline, because you'll have problems in the timeline if you take account of everything. For me Dead Orbit or Dust to Dust are really good but not in the timeline of the films, so in the canon, just because they are just like other works : their story don't respect the original. A:CM does, even if some things are not good, I'm totally okay with you ! Gameplay, dialogs, everything is really sad compared to what we expected. But I just don't understand the using of the "canon" word. It's supposed to make a logical timeline no ? If not tell me that's not true and I will understand. But for now I really thought it was the case. And since some years, I have the proof that it is not anymore the case : Dead Orbit, River of Pain, Fire and Stone etc.
It is not because a story is good that it's canon, canon doesn't mean "goods works", it means continuity, logical timeline, chronological order of events.
And Samhain, I suspect people to love more games than Alien and automatically they are influenced by other games. But like I said, it's Alien before being a game. I only love Alien, and the only games I know are Alien so of course I can't say anything about the others. But I think it's not good to compare A:CM to other games. I saw a lot of people complaining about the fact that there wasn't explanations in the game for Hicks and we must buy the DLC ... What's the problem ? The story is already there.
So, if you say that A:CM forced his way with Hicks and the colony, which is for some points inconsistent, why people consider River of Pain as canon ? There are a lot of problems in it, it don't respect Aliens in a lot of things so what is the logic ? I understand that for the generation of people who always thought that the colony was destroyed, Hicks was dead, I completely understand that it must be hard to accept. But I don't know why we should accept River of Pain as canon. Why the presence of the colony must be more problematic than a 21 marines' battalion before sending only 12 marines to rescue them ?
Canon just means something is officially part of the story.
All canon material should fit into the continuity, but not all that fits into the continuity is automatically canon.
Personally I like ACM, and I enjoyed my time with it. Its one of those games that I wish still had a population because its multiplayer/co-op/Bug Hunt are where the game really shines for me.
It did some other things right, the look of the USCM, the music, the Raven sequence when you're being hunted, the weapon sounds. The motion tracker mechanic is the one thing I will always give them credit for and thats how every game with the USCM should be from now on.
I would say though that one of the biggest reasons ACM gets so much hate is due to the fact the actual game didn't look or feel anything like the (kind of infamous) E3 demo. People wanted
that version of ACM, not the one we ended up with. Everyone, myself included, wanted to have that level of intensity, that many marines and that many aliens all on screen at once. Unfortunately no moments in the game even come close to that, the closest we get is when you're defending the vehicle bay on Hadleys or the hanger on the Sulaco...and those still leave a lot to be desired.
ACM's story is...for the most part garbage. Some things are good, but for the most part its all fat with very little meat. The best part of the campaign is the Weyland Yutani angle where they use the Sulaco and LV426 as bio weapons labs.
Quoteit's voice acting is particularly dead in the water
I thought Travis Willingham did a great job with O'Neal, who was honestly the best/most well acted character in the story.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Oct 17, 2019, 05:26:33 PM
Canon just means something is officially part of the story.
All canon material should fit into the continuity, but not all that fits into the continuity is automatically canon.
That's right ! So are you okay to say that some story are not as legitimate as A:CM to be in the canon, about the continuity ?
The continuity errors in A:CM are myriad. The appalling script and voice acting don't help either.
However, it's not regarded as canon, because Fox licensing does not regard it as canon.
Quote from: SM on Oct 17, 2019, 11:50:08 PM
The continuity errors in A:CM are myriad. The appalling script and voice acting don't help either.
However, it's not regarded as canon, because Fox licensing does not regard it as canon.
Yes there are a lot of errors in A:CM; but the majority of them are just details. Most people linger on details which are not decisive for the story. And the biggest errors can be correct when we search a little. It's just like Out of the Shadows, Fire and Stone, River of Pain : there are a lot of continuity errors and yet it's canon. So I wonder on what criterias the official canon is based.
There are only one big error in A;CM : the colony presence after the explosion. What are the other major problem please ? The really big problems which are problematic for the entire story, and which can't be corrected ?
Well, you could try to explain them, but why bother?
It adds nothing of value to the existing story and even makes it worse overall because it's a poor addition in on itself.
I don't know if Out of the Shadows, Fire and Stone or River of Pain is canon at the moment, but as far as I am concerned they shoulnd't be.
Totally agreed, the Alien Titan Novel Trilogy shouldn't be considered part of continuity, nor should Fire and Stone or Life and Death or The Rage War.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Oct 18, 2019, 10:25:14 AM
Well, you could try to explain them, but why bother?
It adds nothing of value to the existing story and even makes it worse overall because it's a poor addition in on itself.
I don't know if Out of the Shadows, Fire and Stone or River of Pain is canon at the moment, but as far as I am concerned they shoulnd't be.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Oct 18, 2019, 11:10:52 AM
Totally agreed, the Alien Titan Novel Trilogy shouldn't be considered part of continuity, nor should Fire and Stone or Life and Death or The Rage War.
Okay, there I understand ! Because I saw too much people who are really submitted to the official canon, just like they have no critical mind and take everything without asking any questions. I prefer the people who have their own opinion. I wanted to be confronted to those first people, to ask why some things must be canon and other not. And to those who don't respect opinions of the others. I understand that some things are too hard to accept in A:CM because it calls into question what we believe before. I have a different opinion about that, because I like when we are surprised, when things are more complicated than the previous story :)
You are not alone my friend.
Well, If you ignore the game footage that show at E3 2011. Aliens: Colonial Mariens is not that bad at all.
I just finished play through A:CM campaign in hard mode for the first time. After I fix a typo.
https://www.pcgamer.com/all-this-time-aliens-colonial-marines-stupid-ai-may-have-been-caused-by-a-single-typo/
I gotta say this is a better "Aliens Experience" than marine campaign in AVP 2010. Espically after the typo has been fix.
Xenomorph AI in the game is now a lot smarter and more aggressive than before. Xenomorphs are now crawl on ceilings or use air vent to sneak attack on you more often . Sometime Xenomorphs can pounce from great distances to attack you too. And in hard mode, Xenomorph can kill you in just a couple of hits.
Xenomorphs in AVP 2010 are a lot slower, less aggressive and easier to deal with than Xenomorph in A:CM.
I love Aliens: Colonial Marines. And I don't care what anyone say. They can call me a retard if they like. I don't care because it's not my concern.
And This game is still canon to me. As long as it not contradicted by material in the new EU or any upcoming film.
A:CM fill the plothole in Alien 3. It treat Hicks character better than what they did in Alien 3. And the story (both main game and DLC) is good enough for me to accept it as canon.
PS. sorry for bad english.
Quote from: Alien Primordial Origin on Dec 20, 2019, 03:09:50 AM
I love Aliens: Colonial Marines. And I don't care what anyone say. They can call me a retard if they like. I don't care because it's not my concern.
I'm not going to call you anything.
QuoteAnd This game is still canon to me. As long as it not contradicted by material in the new EU or any upcoming film.
A:CM fill the plothole in Alien 3. It treat Hicks character better than what they did in Alien 3. And the story (both main game and DLC) is good enough for me to accept it as canon.
I also could not disagree with you more if I tried, though.
Randy appreciates the support.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Oct 16, 2019, 01:44:02 PM
Hi !
I make this topic to understand things that I never understand.
I'm a relly big fan of A:CM. But I'm aware of the big problems of production, scams of comm' and the bad gameplay. But I love the story.
I have studied major critics on A:CM and I have some answers to them. It is not a fight but see that as a thing that I don't understand and I need logical answers.
I loved the game. Gameplay mechanics were ok after the patches and templar gfx mod. But I loved the story and dlc stories most of all, and how they tied into the second movie and the ACMTM.
Watching a movie made of the cutscenes of this game plus DLC is like watching the Aliens sequel we never had.
The only memory I remember after watching Alien 3 for the first time in 1992 was an immense let down that Hicks was just dismissed and dead right at the start. It was a huge slap in the face to us back in '92. Exactly the same as what Rian Johnson's TLJ did to Luke Skywalker a few years back. It was exactly the same let down.
Whoever wrote the story for ACM and DLC's was either old school 1992 or made it for people like us back then. In my book it is perfect. That gung ho 1986 marines vibe dialled upto 11.
And I think people who think this game's story is a mess are those that never read the ACMTM and how the Shinyo Maru, the Legato and Resolute relate to each other. The script of this game puts you right into that corporate scheming callous world the '86 movie, the ACMTM and the comics portray.
Whoever wrote it is a talentless moron, the story is Asylum level, it's insultingly moronic to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
If the game had been more worked on graphics and dialogues, everyone would have said that it was a good game. But again we are talking about the story which is great. And those who say that it sucks to this point are really dictators of thought because I do not see how a story can be so horribly received. We've already had a lot worse in the Alien franchise. Tell me concretely how the global history is bad ? The marines who come to rescue the survivors of Sulaco is a logical way for the continuation of Aliens. What exactly is wrong with that ?
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 14, 2020, 06:15:41 PM
If the game had been more worked on graphics and dialogues, everyone would have said that it was a good game. But again we are talking about the story which is great.
To quote the Terminator. Wrong.
People will not think of it as a great game if the graphics were better or the dialogue being fixed, because that is not the major problem.
Bad graphics can be forgiven, bad story and dialogues cannot. The game had a story which relied heavily on nostalgia and miracle coincidences, say Turk, how are you wearing the exact same bandages as Hicks. :P
It couldn't even get the nostalgia right either, the complex and the derelict were inaccurate.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 14, 2020, 06:15:41 PM
And those who say that it sucks to this point are really dictators of thought because I do not see how a story can be so horribly received. We've already had a lot worse in the Alien franchise. Tell me concretely how the global history is bad ? The marines who come to rescue the survivors of Sulaco is a logical way for the continuation of Aliens. What exactly is wrong with that ?
The problem is execution, the lack of build up and how things suddenly happen, not to mention the sudden leaps of disbelief it asks us to suspend. The explosion wiped out the colony, yet in this game its mostly intact with functional power. Hicks is alive and there are alien castes with no explanation to their existence. The weyland-Yutani are portrayed as over the top mustache twirling baddies rather than merely the neglectful entity they were in the first few films.
The story is simply bad. If you like it that's fine. People liking bad products is nothing new but to describe it as great is just wrong on so many levels.
There were a few nice ideas here and there, the concept of the Raven is very interesting, a Xenomorph that has grown more and is highly aggressive to boot. It is also in the only level that is arguably good.
The idea of the game following a rescue/investigative team is not a bad one either, its just the execution and what the game is trying to make us swallow.. The problem though that is essentially repeating the second movie because that was about a rescue/investigative team.
Like Alien 3, production and development was not smooth, Pritchard used the budget for ACM on Borderlands and the game was passed between different companies.
The story was terrible. Period.
That it is ridiculously glitchy, and looks/plays like crap, is secondary.
I think people who hate the story have an agenda. They are the type of people who value graphics over anything and the fact that the game was downgraded graphically is cause for the hate.
The story of ACM is actually very well thought out and a fanservice gift to "real" fans of the second movie and the 80's comic books.
People who hate it are probably the modern Call of Duty crew.
Quote from: gold on Jan 15, 2020, 03:40:52 AM
I think people who hate the story have an agenda. They are the type of people who value graphics over anything and the fact that the game was downgraded graphically is cause for the hate.
The story of ACM is actually very well thought out and a fanservice gift to "real" fans of the second movie and the 80's comic books.
People who hate it are probably the modern Call of Duty crew.
:laugh:
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Jan 14, 2020, 08:25:21 AM
Whoever wrote it is a talentless moron, the story is Asylum level, it's insultingly moronic to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
I take it this is an official personal attack and an insult to my intelligence?
Quote from: gold on Jan 15, 2020, 03:46:19 AM
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Jan 14, 2020, 08:25:21 AM
Whoever wrote it is a talentless moron, the story is Asylum level, it's insultingly moronic to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
I take it this is an official personal attack and an insult to my intelligence?
I am a gamer since early 80s but A:CM has not left me with good memories of any aspect of it. In many games I can turn a blind eye to story, graphics and music but not to gameplay mechanics. It was not pleasant at all. Then there is its so-so story, OK graphics (not great, not bad either) and tolerable music but I remember its main menu theme only.
I am mostly into single player campaigns, so can't say much about its multiplayer mode. Anyways it could not save the game for me because its gameplay mechanics.
A: CM is something I can easily forget about without any remorse.
Quote from: gold on Jan 15, 2020, 03:40:52 AM
I think people who hate the story have an agenda. They are the type of people who value graphics over anything and the fact that the game was downgraded graphically is cause for the hate.
The story of ACM is actually very well thought out and a fanservice gift to "real" fans of the second movie and the 80's comic books.
People who hate it are probably the modern Call of Duty crew.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1muq67.jpg)
QuoteIf the game had been more worked on graphics and dialogues, everyone would have said that it was a good game.
I don't care about graphics, but if more had been done with the dialogue it would have improved it. I don't think it would've made it a good game necessarily, but so much of the existing dialogue is not only excrutiatingly bad but also badly performed, that it'd be hard to make it worse.
Can we settle down a bit. There's no such thing as "real" fans, let's not insinuate people are moronic or etc. We're grown-ups. Behave it.
I think some people here forget that differing opinions on things in this franchise exist. That or they forget how to communicate their opinions in a way that doesn't come off as condescending.
I am open to all opinions. But I don't understand the bad faith of people who hate something for a reason, but yet they adore other works that do much worse.
For example : Out of the Shadows, River of Pain, Fire and Stone... A lot of points in the story are unforgivable and yet just because it's officially canon, people don't ask questions and they accept it blindly. I only see one thing in ACM which is really hard to accept : the colony after the detonation of the AP. But what else ? Some little things are too insignificant to be noted. Or, if you to take account of these, so we have to be honest and consider the big mistakes in Out of the Shadows, Sea of Sorrows, River of Pain, Fire and Stone... "which are officially canon".
Many people ask questions about Out of the Shadows, River of Pain and Fire & Stone and do not accept them blindly.
This is a weak argument.
The whole premise of A:CM is that the colony and Aliens survived. It's stupid. The complaints about bad dialogue, retconning of Hicks, general lack of attention to detail and sub-par graphics are just icing on the cake, and it's combination of these that generally amounts to people disliking it.
The other things you mentioned also have flaws, but they're often not enough for people to dislike the overall product.
Quote from: SM on Jan 16, 2020, 12:43:12 AM
general lack of attention to detail
In what respect?
Because the music is solid and very in the vein of Aliens, the USCM gear is as close as its ever been to the film counter parts, same goes for most/all the weapons sounds, most of the environments feel like they're easily extensions of either the Sulaco or Hadleys.
I think the environments they extended beyond the film with the colony and Sulaco were decent enough - but there were many issues with recreating what we saw in the film. Big things like the Sulaco hangar being suddenly half it's original size, Morse being missing from the Alien 3 flashback, down to small stuff like lockers being in the wrong spot or the geography in the Fiorina flashback being all wrong.
Maybe they'll patch it.
I think one of the biggest problems is that the gameplay isnt even fun.
I have often seen people use this argument.
Sometimes people try to flip the script all over the place to make it work. Why not do it with the colony ? We can find solutions to this problem. If we do not accept A: CM in the canon because of this history of colony, then why accept Out of the Shadows which gives us an origin of xenomorphs older than their creation ?
We do not accept it because it's awful, but I also don't accept any of the Titan Alien Trilogy F&S/L&D or The Rage War because each of them contradict the films in a way that's very difficult to ignore. But I'll also cross stuff off that I feel is not any good. I think that's fair.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 16, 2020, 07:48:54 AM
I have often seen people use this argument.
Sometimes people try to flip the script all over the place to make it work. Why not do it with the colony ? We can find solutions to this problem. If we do not accept A: CM in the canon because of this history of colony, then why accept Out of the Shadows which gives us an origin of xenomorphs older than their creation ?
Shadows didn't
give us an origin of the aliens that is older than their creation because Shadows was
released first .Covenant simply
retconned/contradicted it. Its not like the book chose to ignore the lore.
I am not sure how serious you are being in your arguments, plenty of folk have complained or have taken issue with the Shadow and Rage trilogy. i.e Ripley's inclusion, the harpoon gun continuity error, Decker's telepathy, River of Pain's marine additions and continuity errors. However, trying to say that they are worse or that we accept it because its canon, is false. Our views on a subject have nothing to do with canonicity as this is not a case of canon = must be good, non-canon = must be bad. That is not how it works. Quality, story and whether it makes sense are the factor by which we judge.
Quote from: SM on Jan 16, 2020, 01:57:36 AM
I think the environments they extended beyond the film with the colony and Sulaco were decent enough - but there were many issues with recreating what we saw in the film. Big things like the Sulaco hangar being suddenly half it's original size, Morse being missing from the Alien 3 flashback, down to small stuff like lockers being in the wrong spot or the geography in the Fiorina flashback being all wrong.
Gotcha, I'll say that those are fair things to complain about them getting wrong considering the other details they got right.
QuoteI think one of the biggest problems is that the gameplay isnt even fun.
I disagree, when you up the difficulty for campaign its good enough fun, I'd imagine using the PC fix makes it better.
That being said the multiplayer is where this game was the best.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 16, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Our views on a subject have nothing to do with canonicity as this is not a case of canon = must be good, non-canon = must be bad. That is not how it works. Quality, story and whether it makes sense are the factor by which we judge.
I'm compeltely ok with you on this point. And that was my problem for a while. We know that the fact that this game was canon or not has been debated during a long time. And I saw a lot of people (not only here) say that "it is not canon because it's a bad game !" And why is that a bad game ? "Because of the graphics and IA" ... I saw that a lot of time and I wasn't agree with that. The fact that it is canon concerns the story only. Fortunately ! Imagine just because the special effects of a film are not great, so the film is not canon ... with itself ?! It's ridiculous.
So I'm okay with people who say that the story has a problem, that a good debate. And I just want justice with other "official canon" like I said previously. It seems to be ok with you here but I'm not sure that everybody are like you...
Yes, it's non-canon regardless, it's just also awful.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Jan 16, 2020, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 16, 2020, 01:57:36 AM
I think the environments they extended beyond the film with the colony and Sulaco were decent enough - but there were many issues with recreating what we saw in the film. Big things like the Sulaco hangar being suddenly half it's original size, Morse being missing from the Alien 3 flashback, down to small stuff like lockers being in the wrong spot or the geography in the Fiorina flashback being all wrong.
Gotcha, I'll say that those are fair things to complain about them getting wrong considering the other details they got right.
QuoteI think one of the biggest problems is that the gameplay isnt even fun.
I disagree, when you up the difficulty for campaign its good enough fun, I'd imagine using the PC fix makes it better.
That being said the multiplayer is where this game was the best.
Im talking about single player, which isnt fun for me regardless of difficulty.
I dont count MP since by the time I tried to play it was already abandoned.
And good riddance.
To be fair unless you're on the forums you'd never know it wasn't canon. You can find countless articles saying it is canon from large publications such as Forbes. Yet there are zero articles that say it was decanonized. Then there's the "in universe" Augmented Reality USCM Survival Manual which came out November 2017 that mentions events from the game therefore reinforcing the notion of ACM being canon. I joined the forums when "Dead Orbit" concluded (Dec 2017) so up until then I assumed the "new canon" was anything released post Prometheus as there wasn't much evidence to assume otherwise.
It also made Alien 3 a better movie.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 16, 2020, 04:44:25 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 16, 2020, 11:54:59 AM
Our views on a subject have nothing to do with canonicity as this is not a case of canon = must be good, non-canon = must be bad. That is not how it works. Quality, story and whether it makes sense are the factor by which we judge.
I'm compeltely ok with you on this point. And that was my problem for a while. We know that the fact that this game was canon or not has been debated during a long time. And I saw a lot of people (not only here) say that "it is not canon because it's a bad game !" And why is that a bad game ? "Because of the graphics and IA" ... I saw that a lot of time and I wasn't agree with that. The fact that it is canon concerns the story only. Fortunately ! Imagine just because the special effects of a film are not great, so the film is not canon ... with itself ?! It's ridiculous.
So I'm okay with people who say that the story has a problem, that a good debate. And I just want justice with other "official canon" like I said previously. It seems to be ok with you here but I'm not sure that everybody are like you...
A:CM isn't canon because the IP creators decided they didn't want it to be canon.
Did they wait and see how it would be received before making that decision?
Dunno.
Did they always know how stupid the premise was?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 16, 2020, 09:49:24 PM
It also made Alien 3 a better movie.
I hear tell that only the assembly cut makes A3 a better movie :laugh:
You've been misled.
:laugh:
;)
Maybe an assembly cut of ACM would be a better game.
If they re-record the dialogue.
With a different cast.
And a different script.
With all the character names changed to protect the innocent?
#BringBackWilks
Sure. Why not.
Good plan. Make it so.
Just... bizarre.
And if there wasn't this problem of the colony, would you consider it as canon ? Or at least it don't contradict the original story ? Or for you there are other problems ? I think maybe Hicks in cryo is a little bit too much ?
And I'm okay with the fact that Out of the Shadows has been replaced by Covenant because Covenant came after and revealed problems with the origin of the Xenomorph. But are there people who consider both as canon ?
For ACM, I really like it because it's a sequel to Aliens and Alien 3 and revisit the places in the films I really like it. Of course the golony must be destroyed but it is not more bizarre that a lot of other problems of science in the films. Why Ripley survives after the decompression of the Sulaco ? Why all the vessel can travel faster that light ? There are a lot of problem of physic in the films and yet we don't consider them like problems because it's just science fiction. So why a little problem like this must redifine its status of canon or not ? At least we can find solutions to explain the explosion of the AP. But we can't do it for the problems of proportion of LV-426 and a lot of other things...
QuoteAnd if there wasn't this problem of the colony, would you consider it as canon ?
Whether I consider it canon is neither here nor there. Fox doesn't.
QuoteWhy Ripley survives after the decompression of the Sulaco ?
Why shouldn't she?
QuoteWhy all the vessel can travel faster that light ?
Because they can.
The things you're arguing about aren't equivalent.
The problem with the colony surviving is that it makes the whole escape from LV-426 a complete waste of time. Looking at how intact the colony is, they could've stayed there and hidden under a desk and survived. The whole area should've been vapourised.
Ripley can't survive to this situation in the Sulaco and nothing can go faster than light, it's impossible.
And why can't we just try to understand this problem of the colony with the fact that Bishop made a mistake or he just envisioned the worst ? It's not more difficult than trying to explain other problems of reality.
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 18, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Ripley can't survive to this situation in the Sulaco and nothing can go faster than light, it's impossible.
The whole series is just not canon to you if faster-than-light feasibility impacts your ability to enjoy it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2020, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 18, 2020, 12:45:39 PM
Ripley can't survive to this situation in the Sulaco and nothing can go faster than light, it's impossible.
The whole series is just not canon to you if faster-than-light feasibility impacts your ability to enjoy it.
It is not what I said. I completely accept that we are in a science fiction world and in science fiction there is fiction, I know it's very important. No I'm just trying to understand why people accept some physics problems and don't accept others. But for me, I have no problem with that, it's fiction so automatically there will be several problems with the reality.
It's a completely different situation. FTL is just accepted within science fiction. Being told that something is going to explode and wipe out everything around it within a certain radius is setting up certain expectations that the location immediately next to it isn't going to have much left. It's not like there're rules within the Alien series that allow for deflector shields or such to prevent.
Of course, that's why I said why people don't take the time to try to find a way to make it logical ? It's simple to find something to explain the problem, just like we did for Prometheus and the Space Jockey. There are always twists in the stories.
Sure, you could explain it any number of different ways. It wont make it any more satisfying. But I'm glad you dig it.
I understand that it will not be perfect because of the sh*t we had before. But I really don't understand why for some problems there will be a lot of theorie and ideas and here nobody try to save the work... I love Alien so much that it controls my life so of course I love every little thing in the Alien franchise. No matter how a new book or a new film will be bad, I don't care, it's Alien I love it. For me all franchises are entertainment and it's a really big positive thing. I don't really understand the people who hate it, it's just for fun so why be so affected ? :)
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 18, 2020, 07:25:01 PMI love Alien so much that it controls my life so of course I love every little thing in the Alien franchise.
What about AvPR?
QuoteRipley can't survive to this situation in the Sulaco and nothing can go faster than light, it's impossible.
Guess not.
Quote
And why can't we just try to understand this problem of the colony with the fact that Bishop made a mistake or he just envisioned the worst ? It's not more difficult than trying to explain other problems of reality.
Because the film shows us very clearly that Bishop didn't make a mistake.
It'd be as stupid as setting a story on the Nostromo after the events of Alien.
I don't really like AvP R but I will not insult it ^^'
And no, I know that it is scientifically impossible that something can travel faster than light in the universe. It is the relativity ! And Ripley can't survive to the decompression of the Sulaco, a human can only survive 2 minutes in space and be unconscious in 15 seconds.
And yes you are right about Bishop. But I think we already try to arrange other problems in the franchise to make it consistant :)
Ripley's not in space or a vacuum. The pressure doesn't instantly drop to zero. She has thousands of cubic metres of the air to breathe.
Memba this?
Quote1 - The Hadley's Hope colony was a vapour cloud the size of Nebraska at the end of Aliens. How are you guys planning to reconcile that plot point with the setting of the game?
There are a lot of different ways this question could be answered. Technology is very advanced and presumably, parts of Hadleys Hope were built to keep certain parts safe. Also, when a nuke goes of from the ground, it will explode differently then when it's triggered just before the drop. The explosion will go upwards in a cone shape instead of blow downward thus delivering less damage.
If people would've been there, they would've died, but a vapour cloud wouldn't also destroy everything in the radius the size of nebraska.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=39083.msg1129973#msg1129973
'If you thought you got screwed by the graphics, wait'll you get a load of the script!'
Memba this?!
Quote from: SM on Jan 15, 2013, 10:12:47 PM
Radiation from the AP detonation - being directed upwards in a straight line and not affecting anything around it whatsoever - infiltrated the landing gear well where the Queen was hiding and altered her DNA. The radiation was still doing its work after the dropship docked and made the Queen bleed (had she lived longer she would've become a Boiler) - this acid corroded through the deck just before Bishop is ripped apart. The acid radiationally mutated into the egg we see at the start of Alien3 below the deck.
The radiation also leeched from the Queen into Bishop enabling his legs to stop themselves being sucked out into space.
Of course Ripley is not in space yet but the decompression is really too long, and whatever, she couldn't stand on the ladder or get up if the air was still coming out.
These theories are a little bit far fetched ^^' But why not ! I don't see why it must be more complicated compared to all of the other theoriesin the franchise ^^'
Why is the decompression too long?
And maybe work out the math for wind force and you can work if she could climb back in?
The evacuation of the air must be really fast because of the big opening. A very little hole don't create this effect of course. But a hole like this in the ship should have empty the entire air in a few seconds. It's a little bit similar to what we see in Alien with the Narcissus. And it is the same problem for Ripley to hold the ladder : With such an amount of air which is evacuated, it is impossible for her to hold the ladder, and more impossible to get up.
I'll spare you the calclations which are a little bit complicated. Considering the size of the airlock and the same Earth pressure in the Sulaco, there is a variation of 1 bar (Sumaco) to 0 bar (Space). In other words, Ripley faces a wind reaching 400 meters per second --> 1450 km/h.
And again considering the size of the airlock (about 5 m × 5m ?) So 25 m2, the loss of air is equivalent to 10 000 m3 per seconds. So the hangar which can be a little more bigger than that should loose the totality of the air in 3 or 4 seconds max.
I'd be interested in the calculations.
But we're talking about an entire 700m long ships worth of air - not just one hangar bay.
I wonder if there's a correlation between the Sulaco's ability to sustain a prolonged ventilation of its atmosphere and the fact that it didn't automatically vent the hypersleep vault in Alien 3 to suffocate the fire.
Compromised cryotube(s) possibly?
That's probably the best explanation we can hope for.
As for why the decompression of the landing bay wasn't more disastrous, maybe warships like the Sulaco are better equipped with redundant air support systems in the event their hulls are breached during combat.
It's a huge ship made for lots more people.
Would you say it's less questionable than a 40 megaton explosion failing to level everything so close to ground zero?
I think we both know the answer to that.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia0.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FtsgNNs93oIbwk%2Fsource.gif&hash=d3e0baa3aadc26b16eed3fe9561136acbc4fd138)
So for the air density, we suppose that the temperature is acceptable, that is to say an air mass of about 1.25 kg / m3. As there is almost not air movement the pressure is static. All of this pressure becomes dynamic once the airlock has opened, so we go from a pressure of 1 atmosphere to 0 (for vacuum).
The formula for dynamic pressure: 0.5 x density x speed2.
So for the speed: √ (2 x pressure (Pa) / density) = √ (2 x 101500 / 1.25) = 403 km / s = 1450 km / h.
101500 is in Pascal, which is roughly equivalent to the air density of 1 Bar.
And for the evacuation speed, the airlock surface being around 25m2 (5x5), we therefore lose VxS (Speed x Surface) = 403 km / s x 25 m2 = 10,000 m3 / second.
Your airlock dimensions are way too big, but thanks.
So what are the dimensions ? Visually I think I'm not really far from the reality ???
I reckon about 3m x 3m or so.
No idea how much difference that would make without working it out.
It makes a huge difference indeed, so there will be a loss of 3627 m3 / s.
The airlock is completely open during about 50 seconds. So to not be empty until the end, the bay should have these dimensions : 150 m X 200 m X 6 M. So yes it's possible.
But we know that SF is not science and a lot of problems can be noted. The proportions of LV-426 are completely impossible, there is no way to arrange that. However Alien is not non-canon with itself... So for me there is no problem to accept that Bishop is just a machine build by humans and lile every machine build by humans, there are some gaps. With imagination we can find a lot of reason to make it consistent with Aliens. For me I'll just say that he overevalued the power of the explosion. And as Local Trouble quoted, why no trying to find scientific talk to explain that, like we do for everything else ? For me it's no problem ^^'
Let's pretend Bishop got both the yield and blast radius wrong despite the film showing us he didn't. Say it's only 3 megatons.
The colony is still vapourised.
This is a fun little tool...
https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
Indeed.
My theory was that perhaps the atmospheric processor had fail safes in place to minimize damage to the colony in the event of an overload. These fail safes would direct the majority of the energy skyward. But between ACM, Out of the Shadows, and Resistance/Rescue, nukes aren't near as devastating in the Aliens universe as they are in reality.
There are failsafes. They failed. "The crash caused too much damage".
Bishop works for the ECA and he's an android. Chances are he's familiar enough with atmosphere processors to give a reliable estimate of the explosive yield if one of them should overload.
I'm not sure a robot would offer a reliable estimate if he was unable to offer a reliable estimate.
Yeah, he'd probably offer something closer to, "I don't know how big the explosion will be, but it should be big enough that we won't want to be here when it happens."
Reckon.
Yes that tool is really cool and I admit thatit bothered me because of ACM ^^'
But just like the Anesidora which exploding not in its greatest capacity, I think it's not so compmicated to make it work. If Bishop was wrong, because he just give an estimation of the worst because he is not sure ? But the worst is 40 Mt. Plus you can add to this the fact that maybe the explosion was from above and maybe it was just a fireball above the colony and it didn't vaporised everything.
It would be more serious if none of the colony or the AP have survived. But here we know that the explosion happened, ACM didn't try to hide this to us. So for me it is not a problem, it's not like ACM ignored the events of Aliens.
We already try to find solutions for a story to be logical. This is a problem of science, and like I said before, there are many other scientific problems in Alien. Every SF films are more "fiction" than "science".
Quote from: Predator@Alien on Jan 22, 2020, 09:52:39 AM
Yes that tool is really cool and I admit thatit bothered me because of ACM ^^'
But just like the Anesidora which exploding not in its greatest capacity, I think it's not so compmicated to make it work. If Bishop was wrong, because he just give an estimation of the worst because he is not sure ? But the worst is 40 Mt. Plus you can add to this the fact that maybe the explosion was from above and maybe it was just a fireball above the colony and it didn't vaporised everything.
It would be more serious if none of the colony or the AP have survived. But here we know that the explosion happened, ACM didn't try to hide this to us. So for me it is not a problem, it's not like ACM ignored the events of Aliens.
We already try to find solutions for a story to be logical. This is a problem of science, and like I said before, there are many other scientific problems in Alien. Every SF films are more "fiction" than "science".
Explosions cause shockwaves and if it did come from underground like how they tried to claim, it would likely cause earthquakes, so the colony was have still had it. Though not an expert but I would imagine that should happen.
Except that is exactly what it did, which is ironic because it tried run on nostalgia. We actually see the explosion, it would have wiped the colony out and even the derelict, so yeah, it did ignore Aliens, multiple times actually.
ACM simply retconned things to make it fit, only you are trying to make it logica with mental gymnastics. This is not problem of science either, nukes
will cause a large destruction of an area, the problem is nothing to do with science and everything to do with a video game that just wanted revisit Hadley's hope and made a crappy excuse to do so. Nostalgia tends to cause problems with logic i.e Ray being skinned by an evidence cleaner just as homage.
Look, its great that you like the game but there is no point being in denial about the facts,
ACM is a contradictive mess, a person can like something even if its flawed and got major problems that can't be explained. So don't worry about it. :)
Quote from: SM on Jan 22, 2020, 04:03:04 AM
There are failsafes. They failed. "The crash caused too much damage".
I'm strictly speaking from an in-game context and simply entertaining the idea. But again I had 5 years of thinking this shit was canon so I had to come up with something :laugh:
Five years? The game's canonicity was dropped not long after it came out :laugh: At least I think it was. :P
Aesthetically ACM is close to perfect.
That's really all it's campaign has going for it though. Mod tools probably could have salvaged it had we'd gotten any.
The drones/warriors do have a more faithful design than AVP2010 but that is about it, they couldn't do hadley's hope or the derelict right.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 22, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Five years? The game's canonicity was dropped not long after it came out :laugh: At least I think it was. :P
Like I said earlier I didn't join the forums until December 2017 so I had no clue it wasn't canon especially considering the Augmented Reality Survival Manual came out in November 2017 and mentioned events from the game. I just assumed everything released post Prometheus was canon.
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Jan 22, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 22, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Five years? The game's canonicity was dropped not long after it came out :laugh: At least I think it was. :P
Like I said earlier I didn't join the forums until December 2017 so I had no clue it wasn't canon especially considering the Augmented Reality Survival Manual came out in November 2017 and mentioned events from the game. I just assumed everything released post Prometheus was canon.
Did you just say the "C" word?
*shudder*Canon can be a touchy subject, with lots of unofficial official declarations made in these threads. Find a support animal and thread-tread carefully my friend! ;D
Cannon is an abstract concept when it comes to Alien and Predator.
The easiest way to look at it in my opinion is that everything released after Alien Covenant is definitely canon, so by extension Isolation, Defiance, Resistance, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, etcetera but anything released before is unclear, but I'd say if something contradicts that unclear thing, it's out, apart from the films of course.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 22, 2020, 06:40:38 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Jan 22, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 22, 2020, 01:31:23 PM
Five years? The game's canonicity was dropped not long after it came out :laugh: At least I think it was. :P
Like I said earlier I didn't join the forums until December 2017 so I had no clue it wasn't canon especially considering the Augmented Reality Survival Manual came out in November 2017 and mentioned events from the game. I just assumed everything released post Prometheus was canon.
Did you just say the "C" word? *shudder*
Canon can be a touchy subject, with lots of unofficial official declarations made in these threads. Find a support animal and thread-tread carefully my friend! ;D
And I didn't realize just how touchy the subject was until I joined the forums :laugh:
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Jan 22, 2020, 06:56:23 PM
The easiest way to look at it in my opinion is that everything released after Alien Covenant is definitely canon, so by extension Isolation, Defiance, Resistance, Dead Orbit, Dust To Dust, etcetera but anything released before is unclear, but I'd say if something contradicts that unclear thing, it's out, apart from the films of course.
But that would include the aforementioned Survival Manual that references ACM. Hence my confusion about the canonicity of ACM prior to joining the forums.
Well when you get down to it its really up to the director/writer what to acknowledge as canon for their story. That's where things get super confused in these franchises, especially as of late. Then its up to us to decide if we like that choice or not.
I think in the case of the Augmented Reality Survival Manual, it got delayed long past the original release date, and got sourced for that timeframe.
QuotePlus you can add to this the fact that maybe the explosion was from above and maybe it was just a fireball above the colony and it didn't vaporised everything.
The primary heat exchanger is around ground level/ just below ground level. And as Cruentus said, they can cause earthquakes and the AP was about a mile from the colony.
Did you nuke Melbourne from the surface with various yields to see what would happen?
Not today.
Someone should let him know that it isn't considered canon by fox anymore.
Someone's got to go round making every Alien Wikipedia entry reflect the facts then, not the fiction created by marketing ironically, requires doing.
Easier said than done, wikipedia is more rigid than mediawikis so it will need cold hard sourced facts on the page otherwise they will get reverted.
Yes certainly it is, but it requires doing, especially with all the various unofficial Alien Wikipedia creations, more often than not contradicting each other.
I do agree with you but unless someone can get a statement or some bit infor that can be cited then there is no point putting it on the wikipedia.org. On Xenopedia however, we are planning to use tabs to seperate the A;CM information.
Some of the other alien wikis have plagiarised from us, I don't bother with them except to report them when I can.
Would you rather live in a world without A:CM or have egg barfing as canon?
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Feb 09, 2020, 06:48:24 PM
Yes certainly it is, but it requires doing, especially with all the various unofficial Alien Wikipedia creations, more often than not contradicting each other.
If only someone with your level of dedication and tenacity was motivated enough to do so...
I'd do it honestly, apart from the fact of no experience on the formatting, otherwise yeah I'd author, but I'd require a guarantee it's unable to be altered by just anyone so, I'm not completely wasting my time.
It would be harder for them to change back if you could get an ironclad citation.
Probably yes, citing multiple sources for statements though, takes a lot longer.
As preferable as it is, to just do the information itself, it's not as reliable.
This is what the wiki cites as evidence that ACM is canon:
https://kotaku.com/the-authorized-story-of-the-next-aliens-video-game-will-5907653
While some may find what the creator of the work has to say as a reliable source, in this particular case I'd prefer to hear it from the mouth of someone from 20th Century Fox. After all, the origin of everything is in the movies.
Absolutely agreed.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 09, 2020, 06:59:58 PM
I do agree with you but unless someone can get a statement or some bit infor that can be cited then there is no point putting it on the wikipedia.org. On Xenopedia however, we are planning to use tabs to seperate the A;CM information.
Some of the other alien wikis have plagiarised from us, I don't bother with them except to report them when I can.
That is interesting, A:CM being treated as canon has bothered me so much since it came out.
Is there any update on this regarding Xenopedia?
We are working on a way to seperate the information, we are thinking maybe using tabs or something. its clear that A;CM is no longer canon anymore and so the information on the articles shouldn't be considered a part of the main canon. So we are going to work on that.....once we do get around to it. We have already had a discussion about the tabs but I am not a coder and the last I used tabs, it didn't work properly.
Completely off-topic, but
QuoteDodgson! Dodgson!! We have Dodgson here!!!
Dodgson > 1 Google search later > Lewis Carroll AKA Charles Lutwidge Dodgson > Poem "The Hunting of the Snark" > Snark, huh? Sounds familiar > 1 more Google search later > Snark - one of the earlier names for Nostromo
If you didn't get the reference, it was a Jurassic Park reference. But that's funny too. :laugh:
But now it's connected to our beloved acid-blooded extra-terrestrial too. Isn't it great ?