QuoteThe creator behind FX's "Fargo" series and the trippy Marvel TV show "Legion" recently appeared on a panel at the Austin Film Festival, attended by our own Ryan Scott, and discussed his small-screen approach to the franchise, which will include some remixing of what fans expect from an "Alien" project.
Hawley broke down the challenge of bringing what made "Alien" great into the television arena, and it required some adjusting. He explained:
"Look, a two-hour movie, you can set it up and then it's just about, 'Are they going to survive?' But if you're making a series, 'Are they going to survive?', you can't sustain it. Even if you have 60% of the best action-horror on television, you still have 40% of 'What are we talking about?'"
Hawley recalled some early conversations during development of the series that helped shape what the "Alien" show would become. The filmmaker said, "I had some conversations early on with Peter Rice, who used to run all of television at Fox and then the first couple of years at Disney, where it was like, 'The thing with Alien is, it's always trapped in a spaceship, trapped in a prison. What if it wasn't that?'"
Instead, Hawley will be bringing the xenomorphs to Earth, and it will explore that moment in Earth's history. As he explained, "What is this moment on Earth, technology-wise? And where are we? And the question science-fiction always tends to ask is, does humanity deserve to survive? So that seems like a really interesting question to continue to explore."
That will include a bit of exploration into AI, which has also always been prominent in "Alien" movies, thanks to the presence of extremely advanced androids like Ash (Ian Holm), who actually gave the original "Alien" one of its most surprising twists. Hawley confirmed that reveal was a key moment that inspired his "Alien" series.
But since this is an "Alien" series, what about the xenomorphs themselves? What can we expect from their presence? Apparently, that will be refreshed a bit too.
During the panel, Hawley recalled that familiar formula that always ends up in "Alien" movies at some point:
"And then it always mimics the life cycle of the creature, right? Which is egg, slow, Facehugger, starts to get faster — you know what I mean? And of course, that's great for a horror movie to build that way. So I found a way to kind of innovate around that structure and play with it."
https://www.slashfilm.com/1432035/noah-hawley-alien-tv-series-refresh-xenomorph-life-cycle/
Whole lot of nothing statement.
Every word about this project somehow still manages to interest me less and less.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 11:01:28 AMEvery word about this project somehow still manages to interest me less and less.
Same, which is a shame because I did had high hopes for this
I personally cannot wait for it. Same with Blade Runner. Just give them a chance.
Im not sure I agree with his views. I think a survival horror scenario done right can be played out over 10 hours of TV.
I always thought Fargo was a comedy. What happened? :'(
Why was this guy "THE GUY" for the job out of all great TV directors?
Is Fargo the best tv show on planet earth?
(https://media.tenor.com/1MI3gQuaGUgAAAAC/seinfeld-the-best.gif)
More of a crime thriller with surreal and comedic elements. And it's pretty good for the most part.
I still think he's an absolutely bizarre choice for Alien though.
I still think we should give him a go. You never know.
Quote'The thing with Alien is, it's always trapped in a spaceship, trapped in a prison. What if it wasn't that?'"
Instead, Hawley will be bringing the xenomorphs to Earth, and it will explore that moment in Earth's history. As he explained, "What is this moment on Earth, technology-wise? And where are we? And the question science-fiction always tends to ask is, does humanity deserve to survive? So that seems like a really interesting question to continue to explore."
I find it comical that they're trying to talk as if the Alien always being trapped in a spaceship or a prison is a stale recipe and yet proceed to act like they're asking all of these philosophical questions "where is Earth at technology wise and yada yada...we're going to bring the Alien to Earth look at how innovative we are."
Based on how this is being described I'm willing to bet the house this thing will be botched and further dig the hole in the ground for the Alien franchise.
Seems like there are some pompous a******* working on this who think they know best and are taking a progressive approach.
RIP Chappy
I don't like the direction this is going but complaining about an Alien project being progressive is dumb as bricks.
Yeah he kinda snatches defeat from the jaws of victory with the last bit, as far as agreeing with him goes.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Oct 28, 2023, 08:51:12 PMMore of a crime thriller with surreal and comedic elements. And it's pretty good for the most part.
I still think he's an absolutely bizarre choice for Alien though.
An interesting choice imo.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Oct 28, 2023, 10:42:00 PMYeah he kinda snatches defeat from the jaws of victory with the last bit, as far as agreeing with him goes.
Unless he means they think they're being progressive in terms of rejuvenating the series but are actually going backwards.
Which it be
@littlesprout?
Quote from: littlesprout on Oct 28, 2023, 10:07:44 PMQuote'The thing with Alien is, it's always trapped in a spaceship, trapped in a prison. What if it wasn't that?'"
Instead, Hawley will be bringing the xenomorphs to Earth, and it will explore that moment in Earth's history. As he explained, "What is this moment on Earth, technology-wise? And where are we? And the question science-fiction always tends to ask is, does humanity deserve to survive? So that seems like a really interesting question to continue to explore."
I find it comical that they're trying to talk as if the Alien always being trapped in a spaceship or a prison is a stale recipe and yet proceed to act like they're asking all of these philosophical questions "where is Earth at technology wise and yada yada...we're going to bring the Alien to Earth look at how innovative we are."
Based on how this is being described I'm willing to bet the house this thing will be botched and further dig the hole in the ground for the Alien franchise.
Seems like there are some pompous a******* working on this who think they know best and are taking a progressive approach.
RIP Chappy
It won't dig a hole in the ground if it isn't in your headcanon ;)
QuoteUnless he means they think they're being progressive in terms of rejuvenating the series but are actually going backwards.
Which it be @littlesprout?
This is what it be
@SiL as in they're being too bold with the direction they're taking it. (Or thinking they're working outside the box)
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 28, 2023, 09:30:38 PMI still think we should give him a go. You never know.
Give Tootles a chance.
Quote from: littlesprout on Oct 29, 2023, 12:01:55 AMQuoteUnless he means they think they're being progressive in terms of rejuvenating the series but are actually going backwards.
Which it be @littlesprout?
This is what it be @SiL as in they're being too bold with the direction they're taking it. (Or thinking they're working outside the box)
Then apologies for leaping to conclusions!
Good points by Hawley.
We just need to re-read some stuff and then we might have something to expand on on this.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 11:01:28 AMEvery word about this project somehow still manages to interest me less and less.
Prove me wrong Hicks
Quote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2023, 09:03:03 AMQuote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 11:01:28 AMEvery word about this project somehow still manages to interest me less and less.
Prove me wrong Hicks
There will be no proof. You will continue to plunge ever more deeply into an abyss of hopeless despair and eventually look back on this moment, wondering how you could ever have been so optimistic.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Oct 29, 2023, 09:33:38 AMQuote from: SiL on Oct 29, 2023, 09:03:03 AMQuote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2023, 11:01:28 AMEvery word about this project somehow still manages to interest me less and less.
Prove me wrong Hicks
There will be no proof. You will continue to plunge ever more deeply into an abyss of hopeless despair and eventually look back on this moment, wondering how you could ever have been so optimistic.
You see a mouse trap; I see free cheese and a challenge.
I think this will be world building at least
Strands of Ridley Scott's influence are there in direction and think the black goo or a replication of it will be the starting point or carrier of the Alien element here
It's all a big experiment to see if a tv series can be sustained by the premise of the Alien story and think there's a good thing in there in fairness of padding the thing out more for the sake of the franchise because the tropes set by the films become tired and is of benefit to widen them.
Head canons will go into meltdown though 😄
Has anyone watched Chapplewait or From? I'm hoping it will match that expectation of quality while tossing in that Raised by Wolves flare.
I also think that not expanding the Alien lore is a wasted opportunity.
I think the best approach for the series would be to take these specific aspects of the movies:
1 - The tone and atmosphere of the first Alien movie.
2 - The world building and sets/look of the second movie (Aliens).
3 - The character study and drama of the third movie (Alien 3), which Noah Hawley has proven to be a master of, with Fargo's iconic and memorable characters.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Oct 29, 2023, 02:57:19 PMHas anyone watched Chapplewait or From? I'm hoping it will match that expectation of quality while tossing in that Raised by Wolves flare.
I also think that not expanding the Alien lore is a wasted opportunity.
I will give my honest thoughts regarding From.
Incredible premise and the first season has a lot of highs when it comes to horror, but the second season is so bad that made me drop the show for the future.
The series feels like Lost where it just introduces new questions every new episode without answering the first questions.
Yeah the last few episodes consisted of people screaming nonstop for minutes on end. Its like 15 minutes was wasted entirely on people having seizure episodes.
Quote from: PortugueseXeno on Oct 29, 2023, 02:59:05 PMI think the best approach for the series would be to take this specific aspects of the movies:
1 - The tone and atmosphere of the first Alien movie.
2 - The world building and sets/look of the second movie (Aliens).
3 - The character study and drama of the third movie (Alien 3), which Noah Hawley has proven to be a master of, with Fargo's iconic and memorable characters.
I for one would definitely dig that!
Hawley is an actual genius, you have NO IDEA how lucky you are to have your property adapted by him. Ive been absolutely obsessed with Legion the past few weeks and just now realized the villain is a Noah self-insert and I havent seen one person figure that out. Holy shit. I know this sounds exaggerated and arrogant, like im raving like a lunatic, but the second you understand Legion and enter Noahs headspace, you understand that he is basically the second coming. Its the most sophisticated piece of art I have seen.
We're not worthy!
Quote from: Gimitko on Oct 29, 2023, 10:24:35 PMHawley is an actual genius, you have NO IDEA how lucky you are to have your property adapted by him. Ive been absolutely obsessed with Legion the past few weeks and just now realized the villain is a Noah self-insert and I havent seen one person figure that out. Holy shit. I know this sounds exaggerated and arrogant, like im raving like a lunatic, but the second you understand Legion and enter Noahs headspace, you understand that he is basically the second coming. Its the most sophisticated piece of art I have seen.
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbjJpMDl3Y2Z0MHZrOHo1cDJsamV2eWc2bmdneHdlZ204ZWRmdm44aiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/7tMVMCiq4hsZ0t5CJd/source.gif)
I am looking forward to see the apologies to Noah once the show rocks >:(👉👈
Me too. I expect SiL and CB to eat a lot of crow when it turns out that Wendy and Tootles are the greatest characters since the original film.
The atmosphere, character development, etc., are doable, but what to show in place of the "will they survive?" storyline? The answer refers to "does humanity deserve to survive"? Does that imply drama, with human beings in conflict with each other and the alien used as a tool in that conflict?
Reminds me of the unused script for the third alien movie, with groups of human beings fighting over the alien, fighting against the alien, and fighting with each other.
Quote from: Gimitko on Oct 29, 2023, 10:24:35 PMHawley is an actual genius, you have NO IDEA how lucky you are to have your property adapted by him. Ive been absolutely obsessed with Legion the past few weeks and just now realized the villain is a Noah self-insert and I havent seen one person figure that out. Holy shit. I know this sounds exaggerated and arrogant, like im raving like a lunatic, but the second you understand Legion and enter Noahs headspace, you understand that he is basically the second coming. Its the most sophisticated piece of art I have seen.
I tried to watch
Lucy in the Sky on a plane on a 12 hour flight after exhausting everything I wanted to see and honestly decided staring at the floor for the remaining three hours was a better use of my time.
Anyone can make a stinker.
I only watched the first four or five series, but wasn't each series of the The Walking Dead a dozen hours of "Are they going to survive?"
Yeah and it was pretty boring for long stretches of it.
Quote from: SiL on Oct 30, 2023, 06:02:02 AMYeah and it was pretty boring for long stretches of it.
I dunno. I really liked the early seasons. Do we know how long this series is? Half a dozen episodes couldn't be that hard.
The show had a tendency to start strong, lag in the middle, then pick up again in the last few episodes.
I think this is 10 episodes.
The Netflix Marvel stuff was like that. Good start, good end, sagged in the middle. The Disney stuff they do with 6 eps or so is a lot tighter.
Yeah, Not everything needs ten hours.
I don't see how something like Hadley's Hope couldn't easily sustain a longer series and keep the Alien conventions but then I'm not The Second Coming.
I have always been anti Hadley's Hope prequels honestly, or even anything like them.
Just boring to me.
unimaginative and redundant.
Not actually suggesting Hadley's Hope as a story, just that a simple gradual takeover over of a location would sustain interest over a longer play time. The idea you need to reinvent the wheel to make a longer runtime sustainable is dull and unimaginative.
Yes I agree. I would argue an Alien Isolation type scenario, intersperced with Lost-esque flashbacks showing the downfall of the station, would work perfectly well in TV format.
After all this isnt the old days where each season of a TV show had 25 episodes. Maybe then I would agree with Hawley's comments.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 29, 2023, 08:55:10 AMWe just need to re-read some stuff and then we might have something to expand on on this.
Any further word on this Corporal?
I just realized that from what we know about the series it sounds A LOT like Alita Battle Angel in many aspects.
Alita is something I keep going back to with the Wendy angle, yeah. Especially after the concept art piece of her with the swords. More than a little Avatar and The Matrix as well, in the way some of those transhumanist elements seem like they are going to be explored.
This is just stray, rampant speculating on my end, but one other thing that's been feeding into my mind a bit lately is the throwaway comment in Alien: Resurrection about Aliens' memories being passed down genetically from generation to generation, and it just got me wondering if something along those lines might be the link between Wendy and the "Lost Boys" and the capital-A Alien. Maybe Prodigy's conscious transference project isn't exactly going very well and, after the Maginot crashes in Prodigy City with its stash of eggs/samples, some of the Alien/Pathogen material is reverse-engineered in such a way that it is able to be used by Prodigy's scientists as something of a missing link that allows them to physically move consciousness from one (biological) body to another (mechanical) body...
Also the vertical caste society aspect that you can see in High Rise (which also inspired the series). I wonder if it will be almost exactly like Alita, the failed experiments and malfuctioning inventions of Prodigy get thrown to the underground levels.
Quote from: ralfy on Oct 30, 2023, 03:39:30 AMThe atmosphere, character development, etc., are doable, but what to show in place of the "will they survive?" storyline? The answer refers to "does humanity deserve to survive"? Does that imply drama, with human beings in conflict with each other and the alien used as a tool in that conflict?
Don't let this be the case man, why do you call a alien even though there's little to no focus on the xenomorph itself. Why?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 13, 2022, 03:54:38 PMIn the unlikely event that an alien actually makes a cameo between all the corporate intrigue and "exploration of what it means to be human" bullshit, I might glance at it.
Oh I dont know if this has been already said by anyone, but the Aliens will very likely be a metaphor for climate change driven exctinction.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 30, 2023, 05:35:57 PMMaybe Prodigy's conscious transference project isn't exactly going very well and, after the Maginot crashes in Prodigy City with its stash of eggs/samples, some of the Alien/Pathogen material is reverse-engineered in such a way that it is able to be used by Prodigy's scientists as something of a missing link that allows them to physically move consciousness from one (biological) body to another (mechanical) body...
God I hope a ship full of eggs doesn't crash into an earth city and get 100% contained long enough for those experiments to happen.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 28, 2023, 10:43:56 AMQuote"And then it always mimics the life cycle of the creature, right? Which is egg, slow, Facehugger, starts to get faster — you know what I mean? And of course, that's great for a horror movie to build that way. So I found a way to kind of innovate around that structure and play with it."
https://www.slashfilm.com/1432035/noah-hawley-alien-tv-series-refresh-xenomorph-life-cycle/
Why is he making out as if he's discovered something incredibly insightful nobody else has?
It isn't as if the films all adhere to one single formula, but let's look at '
Aliens' as an example. It effectively goes by Robert McKee's famous narrative structure:
1: Inciting incident.
2: Progressive complications.
3: Crisis.
4: Climax.
5: Resolution.
Claiming that he's "found a way to kind of innovate around that structure," feels egotistical, at best. One would think that most decent writers could! They're just templates, after all. There are a lot of them to choose from and most are already out there, in some form or another. If he's hit upon one which is legitimately new, that would be quite the revelation, but I doubt it.
Besides which, it would be a necessity to change it from how a film would be approached: You can't use the same narrative structure for a film and episodic format (especially when factoring in the respective production budgets). Episodic requires segments of a story to be revealed along an arc (unless it's a monster-of-the-week thing, where no real arc exists, but this project is clearly going for an arc). A film is a stand-alone story, where everything should be taken care of in one go. Completely different writing philosophies.
Aliens follows Alien's plot beat structure fairly closely, though. Alien 3 would've been a better example.
this "reeks" of (scott?) doing "stuff i(we) have never been able to do" in the past. an alien has never been brought to earth and studied. let us explore that.
tags:
fleeting suspicion
I doubt Scott's been meddling much but it was probably already right up his alley, for better or worse.
I feel like the more I read about this series, the less I know about what this series is about. I have no idea what to expect, and for some reason I don't care...
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Oct 30, 2023, 06:20:35 PMQuote from: ralfy on Oct 30, 2023, 03:39:30 AMThe atmosphere, character development, etc., are doable, but what to show in place of the "will they survive?" storyline? The answer refers to "does humanity deserve to survive"? Does that imply drama, with human beings in conflict with each other and the alien used as a tool in that conflict?
Don't let this be the case man, why do you call a alien even though there's little to no focus on the xenomorph itself. Why?
Indeed. I'm referring to this part of the article:
QuoteInstead, Hawley will be bringing the xenomorphs to Earth, and it will explore that moment in Earth's history. As he explained, "What is this moment on Earth, technology-wise? And where are we? And the question science-fiction always tends to ask is, does humanity deserve to survive? So that seems like a really interesting question to continue to explore."
It's as if he plans to make a TV show about the flaws of humanity using the aliens for context.
Its quite possible he might tie in the Peter Weyland and his purposeful trip based on drawings in caves. Maybe. There doesn't seem like any other point in the history of mankind in the lore in which would be interesting enough to explore.
Plus there all that other back matter such as Blade Runner's lore that crisscrosses with Alien.
Could this be the case of this being really good tv show but and an absolute Dogshit alien tv show.
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Oct 31, 2023, 10:43:54 PMCould this be the case of this being really good tv show but and an absolute Dogshit alien tv show.
Personally I would still consider a really good show that happens to have the alien in it to be really good alien show. Lol. As long as the beast isn't completely sidelined and doesn't only appear once or twice in the show, I'm a happy camper.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Oct 31, 2023, 12:01:27 AMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Oct 28, 2023, 10:43:56 AMQuote"And then it always mimics the life cycle of the creature, right? Which is egg, slow, Facehugger, starts to get faster — you know what I mean? And of course, that's great for a horror movie to build that way. So I found a way to kind of innovate around that structure and play with it."
https://www.slashfilm.com/1432035/noah-hawley-alien-tv-series-refresh-xenomorph-life-cycle/
Why is he making out as if he's discovered something incredibly insightful nobody else has?
It isn't as if the films all adhere to one single formula, but let's look at 'Aliens' as an example. It effectively goes by Robert McKee's famous narrative structure:
1: Inciting incident.
2: Progressive complications.
3: Crisis.
4: Climax.
5: Resolution.
Claiming that he's "found a way to kind of innovate around that structure," feels egotistical, at best. One would think that most decent writers could! They're just templates, after all. There are a lot of them to choose from and most are already out there, in some form or another. If he's hit upon one which is legitimately new, that would be quite the revelation, but I doubt it.
Besides which, it would be a necessity to change it from how a film would be approached: You can't use the same narrative structure for a film and episodic format (especially when factoring in the respective production budgets). Episodic requires segments of a story to be revealed along an arc (unless it's a monster-of-the-week thing, where no real arc exists, but this project is clearly going for an arc). A film is a stand-alone story, where everything should be taken care of in one go. Completely different writing philosophies.
I took it as to mean that he'll innovate on the life cycle itself. Which is always a good sign... Also worried how from the whole movie, his biggest takeaway is Ash, and not the Alien itself. I'm someone who likes mature takes on the problems of androids and humans, but this is the Alien franchise, not the Android franchise. He has been talking about that and the cultural issues of the working class (which I agree with are good themes for the franchise), but it seems that's his focus and the Alien is just kinda there, almost nothing positive has been said about the creature itself.
Also saw this article:
https://www.slashfilm.com/1432035/noah-hawley-alien-tv-series-refresh-xenomorph-life-cycle/?fbclid=IwAR0sCyTN7u5o-xvpFSWv6fhfNkKDyxMljaTHedJLojhIkbow1uTOXuwJc6k (https://www.slashfilm.com/1432035/noah-hawley-alien-tv-series-refresh-xenomorph-life-cycle/?fbclid=IwAR0sCyTN7u5o-xvpFSWv6fhfNkKDyxMljaTHedJLojhIkbow1uTOXuwJc6k)
If it's true, 70 years before Alien is too much! He want's to explore complex sci fi themes (transferring consciousness into synth bodies) and sets it in the 2050s?! That's contemporary to me, not even connected to Alien timeline wise. It's funny with these prequels how the more advanced tech they show, the further in the past it is... :laugh:
"Fargo in a Space Age"
Ikr lol You're killing me 😅🙏 It's entertainingly bad :'( or breathtakingly👀?
Boy Kavalier though.👁🕷👁👉👈
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Oct 31, 2023, 10:43:54 PMCould this be the case of this being really good tv show but and an absolute Dogshit alien tv show.
this will most certainly be the case, ït will be "something special" for sure, while angering and conflicting Alien fans
the thing is that Noah is incredibly sly, he has admitted in interviews he lies to executives about the purpose of his creative decisions so they let him do his thing
the example was that he says to executives stuff like "there was an UFO in this Coen Bros movie so Fargo should have an UFO too" and then he uses the UFO in a completely different context and imbues it with different meaning
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Oct 31, 2023, 10:43:54 PMCould this be the case of this being really good tv show but and an absolute Dogshit alien tv show.
I feel like it's going to be more Legion with some tropes and trappings than "what Fargo (TV) was to Fargo (movie) but Alien".
Which some people will love but I probably won't.
Would it be too much to ask that the android who fights the Alien be like this?
(https://i.ibb.co/vkrHCPY/3e5a36d0-4a1a-4821-88ee-8cd0458b3f3e.png)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 01, 2023, 04:27:16 AMWould it be too much to ask that the android who fights the Alien be like this?
https://i.ibb.co/vkrHCPY/3e5a36d0-4a1a-4821-88ee-8cd0458b3f3e.png
Played by Ivanna Sakhno...
@[cancerblack] Thoughts?
Bound to look more like 2P. Sydney's a brunette.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 01, 2023, 11:38:59 AMQuote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 01, 2023, 04:27:16 AMWould it be too much to ask that the android who fights the Alien be like this?
https://i.ibb.co/vkrHCPY/3e5a36d0-4a1a-4821-88ee-8cd0458b3f3e.png
Played by Ivanna Sakhno...
@[cancerblack]
Thoughts?
You know my thoughts there lmao.
Privately learned actors Jonathan Ajayi and Joseph Potter have joined the series. Will be announced once the strike ends.
So apologies - I'd not properly read the article when I stated I might have more to add and gone off some misleading headlines about the lifecycle/creatures. I've nothing to add to what Hawley actually said.
So does that mean you have something to add about the Aliens themselves
Not directly Alien related but creature related.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:03:19 AMNot directly Alien related but creature related.
(https://static-00.iconduck.com/assets.00/thinking-face-emoji-1935x2048-ul7zt5ry.png)
Think Thing prequel, but not The Thing original. That's all I say for now.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:11:13 AMThink Thing prequel, but not The Thing original. That's all I say for now.
They're filming practical Aliens that are being completely redrawn with CGI?
:laugh: No. Plot-wise.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:15:29 AM:laugh: No. Plot-wise.
They're ignoring what the previous movie did and making nonsensical changes that don't in any way benefit the story?
more neomorph-adjacent shenanigans?
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 11:18:04 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:15:29 AM:laugh: No. Plot-wise.
They're ignoring what the previous movie did and making nonsensical changes that don't in any way benefit the story?
I am suggesting nothing negative. :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:32:45 AMQuote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 11:18:04 AMQuote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:15:29 AM:laugh: No. Plot-wise.
They're ignoring what the previous movie did and making nonsensical changes that don't in any way benefit the story?
I am suggesting nothing negative. :laugh:
Then you goofed invoking The Thing 2021.
Yer
If it helps, I might be invoking something that didn't make it into the finished film. :laugh: I'm trying to be fun cryptic but it's falling apart. The narrative around the cut pilot. There you go.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 07, 2023, 11:49:38 AMIf it helps, I might be invoking something that didn't make it into the finished film. :laugh: I'm trying to be fun cryptic but it's falling apart. The narrative around the cut pilot. There you go.
This is... very interesting...
chances of ultramorph are rising
So, the idea that the cut pilot contributed to some of the biological traits we see in some of the Thing forms, then?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 11:59:09 AMSo, the idea that the cut pilot contributed to some of the biological traits we see in some of the Thing forms, then?
The cut pilot was also collecting different species.
Maybe a creature that couldn't make it to the cut of the series, like the Thing prequel pilot.
(https://i.ibb.co/ykvYkBy/Alien-Pilot-Profile.png)
another space jockey - brought to earth in the hold of the crashed WY ship
..maybe in stasis...
carrying a ultramorph
Please no ultramorphs.
A Jockey in the ship with
Spoiler
Michael Fassbender's face.
a giant michael fassbender face will be piloting the jockey ship
Quote from: skhellter on Nov 07, 2023, 12:34:01 PMa giant michael fassbender face will be piloting the jockey ship
We're almost full circle swinging back around to Space Tapir with this one.
the tapir, too.. shall return.
I know you're not a fan of having many sentient aliens in the lore, but perhaps it could be another unfortunate species of alien (not Jockey, not Engineer) that crash-landed on Earth with some special cargo. :laugh: 3
It's a human ship, we know that.
Maybe there aren't just Aliens on board.
I'm still wondering if there might be some sort of ancient, long abandoned Engineer/Jockey structure beneath the surface of Prodigy City.
hope the space jockey is crucified. :laugh:
go full evangelion.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 07, 2023, 01:15:10 PMI'm still wondering if there might be some sort of ancient, long abandoned Engineer/Jockey structure beneath the surface of Prodigy City.
This!
The only way they could botch this is if they add predator yautja and make it an actual AVP cross over event. then that would confirm the suck.
I mean, there are plenty of other ways they could botch this without adding a Predator.
But yes, that would indeed be one way to botch it.
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 07, 2023, 05:21:01 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 07, 2023, 01:15:10 PMI'm still wondering if there might be some sort of ancient, long abandoned Engineer/Jockey structure beneath the surface of Prodigy City.
This!
On Earth though??
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 07, 2023, 08:02:29 PMQuote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 07, 2023, 05:21:01 PMQuote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 07, 2023, 01:15:10 PMI'm still wondering if there might be some sort of ancient, long abandoned Engineer/Jockey structure beneath the surface of Prodigy City.
This!
On Earth though??
They were obviously here when they created us, and periodically returned as depicted in the cave paintings in
Prometheus. It wouldn't really be out of left field to establish that they had some sort of ancient outpost that they constructed here in that time.
I suppose not. Bet Weyland would be pissed spending $3 trillion getting to LV-223 if there was Engineer tech on Earth all along!
Yeah, if that's the case, that'd make Prometheus seem even more stupid. I can imagine Peter's angry face looking at Shaw and Holloway. But knowing how bad they were at their job, I wouldn't pass them missing a whole structure.
Wish we'd had the earlier script where they did find an engineer monolith/ruins on the seabed.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 07, 2023, 08:37:09 PMI suppose not. Bet Weyland would be pissed spending $3 trillion getting to LV-223 if there was Engineer tech on Earth all along!
wellactchually (puts nerd glasses on)
Weyland goes there to find one that's alive..
He wants to meet them and beg for more life.
Even if he knew about a secret engineer outpost on earth, it'd be empty, useless to his mad goal
Quote from: skhellter on Nov 08, 2023, 10:06:37 PMQuote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 07, 2023, 08:37:09 PMI suppose not. Bet Weyland would be pissed spending $3 trillion getting to LV-223 if there was Engineer tech on Earth all along!
wellactchually (puts nerd glasses on)
Weyland goes there to find one that's alive..
He wants to meet them and beg for more life.
Even if he knew about a secret engineer outpost on earth, it'd be empty, useless to his mad goal
Yep. He (and Holloway too, for that matter) didn't care much at all about the outpost itself on LV-223, until it turned out there was a living Engineer there.
Actually retroactively improves Prometheus, by establishing they had some more prior knowledge, and perhaps even preconceptions that made them arrogant and dismissive.
Which also means the first four movies can be discarded.
Uh... no...
They are not mutually exclusive whatsoever.
Will HR GIGER be forgotten in the next tv series? Will we even get a knod? Will it even be necessary to credit him? I get the feeling both the new film and this tv series will gloss over it. Much like Covenant did. The fact that at least Prometheus invited him to design, covenant didn't....the next film will absolutely not even cover the psycho-sexual dimensia. sorry to break hearts here but Alien couldn't carry itself based on film-union and global censorship alone.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 09, 2023, 11:05:09 PMThe fact that at least Prometheus invited him to design, covenant didn't....
I mean he'd been dead for three years at that point.
He's still credited for Original Design Elements.
Also, it was a very conscious decision by Scott and Covenant's art team to hold off on some of those design elements there as they were building towards the introduction of the Giger/biomech designs for the third prequel, which makes total sense in the context of the film.
And to add to that, if you think there's nothing psychosexual at play in Covenant, you might want to give it another watch and refresh yourself.
And let someone do the fingering.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 09, 2023, 11:45:53 PMpsychosexual at play in Covenant, you might want to give it another watch and refresh yourself.
How in the world do you think that is? What psychosexual? EXPLAIN!?
I think we can all leave it a silly meme now and that satisfies.
I remember a film called Demonseed back in the 70s and it was a mind f**k. These days....all you need is a silly one liner. sadly. You must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:24:07 AMYou must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
Yes, that is exactly how I engage with film.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:24:07 AMHow in the world do you think that is? What psychosexual? EXPLAIN!?
The same way Alien is with the rape monster, with extra layers of the sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence.
The fact you can't see it says more about you than the film.
QuoteYou must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
f**k right off with this attitude.
You ever posted a gif NA? ;D
Quote from: kwisatz on Nov 10, 2023, 12:50:41 AMYou ever posted a gif NA? ;D
Alas, I am seemingly guilty as charged (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=66653.msg2615619#msg2615619).
Quote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2023, 12:44:29 AMQuote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:24:07 AMHow in the world do you think that is? What psychosexual? EXPLAIN!?
The same way Alien is with the rape monster, with extra layers of the sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence.
The fact you can't see it says more about you than the film.
QuoteYou must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
f**k right off with this attitude.
Well that's one for the books.
I never caught on to ....."that" psychosexual theme. I must be behind in 'new' issues.
" sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence."
If anyone knows about Androids .....let me in on that psych book because I never heard of it. sounds more fantasy than reality.
The apple certainly has fallen far from the tree. Do you get that reference? Remember apples? Apples are grown on earth. Androids don't even exist. But Covanent urked you in the wrong way. 1/10000000 people should know that. I'm sorry I wasn't one of them.
Goodluck with yourself on that island.
Someone let me know if he's pulled his head out his ass, I'm not reading his drivel until then.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:53:25 AMQuote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2023, 12:44:29 AMQuote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:24:07 AMHow in the world do you think that is? What psychosexual? EXPLAIN!?
The same way Alien is with the rape monster, with extra layers of the sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence.
The fact you can't see it says more about you than the film.
QuoteYou must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
f**k right off with this attitude.
Well that's one for the books.
I never caught on to ....."that" psychosexual theme. I must be behind in 'new' issues.
" sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence."
If anyone knows about Androids .....let me in on that psych book because I never heard of it. sounds more fantasy than reality.
The apple certainly has fallen far from the tree. Do you get that reference? Remember apples? Apples are grown on earth. Androids don't even exist. But Covanent urked you in the wrong way. 1/10000000 people should know that. I'm sorry I wasn't one of them.
Goodluck with yourself on that island.
What
lol you guys need to touch grass. you both are a wonder.
I only read posts with animated gifs
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 09, 2023, 09:13:12 PMUh... no...
They are not mutually exclusive whatsoever.
Retroactive improvement shows otherwise.
You're not the only one! ;D
Quote from: kwisatz on Nov 10, 2023, 01:11:40 AMI only read posts with animated gifs
hey guys calm down let's not try to kill each other over this. I do agree with BB that I never caught on with the psychosexual theme in a sea but it's been like years since I saw that film I think I saw it once when it came out, The closest thing to that is David kiss Walter, however I don't really like that BB that you were part of a bad generation, that was just uncalled for.
Whose BB? Whats BB? Is it me? LOL :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 01:20:42 AMWhose BB? Whats BB? Is it me? LOL :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, I just got lazy, my bad bb :laugh: :laugh:
:P well i guess i need to do what a BB does and change my avatar to a BB!!!!!
(https://media.tenor.com/9F6H7oLIZxUAAAAC/seinfeld-jerry-seinfeld.gif)
Ok I'll copy and paste your name
BenditlikeBeckum
Quote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 10, 2023, 01:17:59 AMI do agree with BB that I never caught on with the psychosexual theme in a sea but it's been like years since I saw that film I think I saw it once when it came out, The closest thing to that is David kiss Walter, however I don't really like that BB that you were part of a bad generation, that was just uncalled for.
Whether BB missed it or not is irrelevant, what matters is they decided to act like a c**t for no reason.
too late, the other BBs on this forum are acting like a bunch of BBs.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2023, 01:48:43 AMQuote from: Thatguy2068 on Nov 10, 2023, 01:17:59 AMI do agree with BB that I never caught on with the psychosexual theme in a sea but it's been like years since I saw that film I think I saw it once when it came out, The closest thing to that is David kiss Walter, however I don't really like that BB that you were part of a bad generation, that was just uncalled for.
Whether BB missed it or not is irrelevant, what matters is they decided to act like a c**t for no reason.
Oh I misunderstood the situation. I'm sorry about that.
Quote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:53:25 AMQuote from: SiL on Nov 10, 2023, 12:44:29 AMQuote from: BenditlikeBeckum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:24:07 AMHow in the world do you think that is? What psychosexual? EXPLAIN!?
The same way Alien is with the rape monster, with extra layers of the sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence.
The fact you can't see it says more about you than the film.
QuoteYou must be part of a generation where things are just worth your money if you come back and get to do an animated gif about it and be done.
f**k right off with this attitude.
Well that's one for the books.
I never caught on to ....."that" psychosexual theme. I must be behind in 'new' issues.
" sexless android making the rape monster because of his daddy issues and inability to deal with his own impotence."
If anyone knows about Androids .....let me in on that psych book because I never heard of it. sounds more fantasy than reality.
The apple certainly has fallen far from the tree. Do you get that reference? Remember apples? Apples are grown on earth. Androids don't even exist. But Covanent urked you in the wrong way. 1/10000000 people should know that. I'm sorry I wasn't one of them.
Goodluck with yourself on that island.
Came back to this post after a good night's sleep to see if I might be able to wrap my head around it, and I'm honestly still struggling to do so.
Are you saying that you can't apply (or derive) themes from this film and its portrayal of David because he's an android, and androids aren't real? It "sounds more fantasy than reality" because yeah, it's a work of fiction that isn't exactly setting out to portray a 1:1 rendition of our reality. That doesn't mean it can't be about something, and David's fascination with creation (and birth/reproduction) and his means of violently acting on those desires and defiling life that he deems to be lesser in order to create his own "Perfect Organism," in spite of the limitations imposed on him by the father that he detests, is very much the text of this particular work of fiction. The movie comes right out and says as much in its opening scene with David and Weyland, and sticks to those guns and further dives into these ideas as the movie goes on.
Anyways, I'm gonna go eat an apple.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Nov 10, 2023, 12:56:49 PM... David's fascination with creation (and birth/reproduction) and his means of violently acting on those desires and defiling life that he deems to be lesser in order to create his own "Perfect Organism," in spite of the limitations imposed on him by the father that he detests, is very much the text of this particular work of fiction. The movie comes right out and says as much in its opening scene with David and Weyland, and sticks to those guns and further dives into these ideas as the movie goes on.
I liked all that, and it's a nice extrapolation from Ash in the original Alien.
But c'mon, "You blow. I'll do the fingering" is an eye-rolling line best delivered by Ryan Reynolds in a Deadpool movie.
TC
David's delivery of that line feels way too sincere (in his own self-infatuated way) to come anywhere close to anything in the Deadpool movies (which I personally find to be grating and pretty much unwatchable, like most of Ryan Reynolds' filmography).
The themes in Covenant are pretty obvious and it's not a question of if they exist. David's issues and reasons are clear as day, everything that SiL said.
Hey guys, what's going on in this thr-
Oh.
Something about getting fingered by Noah Hawley.
I don't know, I think the "Are Alien: Covenant's core themes and ideas actually really there in the text?" question is a pretty worthy successor to the "Alien was never political" sentiment that sprung into being soon after this show was announced and we got our first details about it.
Now hold on, wait a minute, wait a minute...
You mean to tell me these movies have more going on than just scary alien on spaceship???
Yeah, there's also scary alien on planet.
Who cares about scary alien when we could be focusing on the THEMES? Who wants entertainment when you can drink coffee and wax philosophical about what it means to be human?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 10, 2023, 07:29:23 PMWho cares about scary alien when we could be focusing on the THEMES? Who wants entertainment when you can drink coffee and wax philosophical about what it means to be human?
2001: space Odyssey
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 10, 2023, 07:29:23 PMWho cares about scary alien when we could be focusing on the THEMES? Who wants entertainment when you can drink coffee and wax philosophical about what it means to be human?
(https://sankofakitchenva.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/b3c3198adb7d53a156704c2cf6a273ca.jpg)
Exactly. We're sophisticated. Hell, we don't even need an alien as long as we have quirky human characters.
So hope Hawley one day finds this forum
I'm getting on Noah's boat personally.
Same. I don't love every single thing we've been hearing (Earth pre-Alien still throws me way off), but on the whole, I'm along for the ride and very willing/curious to see what this show is.
You're just in for those animated gifs anyway..
Using other subgenres is fine, as that's what they did with the features: horror based on suspense, action, political intrigue, cosmological views, and so on. But with the first four movies, the alien generally played a main role, and in the prequels the role was diluted. That might be the case for this new movie, i.e., with a focus on human drama, AI, companies, etc.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/duM6JZemPlOjUyqmxd/giphy.gif)
Do you think Prometheus did not scare the living shit out of ralfy?
Ralfy thinks Alien Resurrection has "political intrigue", I'm not convinced he's actually seen any of the films.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 11, 2023, 02:48:56 AMRalfy thinks Alien Resurrection has "political intrigue", I'm not convinced he's actually seen any of the films.
But that one scene with Call raging against the machine defines and contextualises the other 148.8 minutes of the runtime.
It's deeply political and thrilling.
Quote from: kwisatz on Nov 10, 2023, 09:26:18 PMYou're just in for those animated gifs anyway..
This! ;D
Quote from: kwisatz on Nov 11, 2023, 02:00:19 AMDo you think Prometheus did not scare the living shit out of ralfy?
They use different subgenres and context: suspense for the first, action for the second, a procedural for the third, political intrigue for the fourth, and cosmology for the prequels with the alien playing a secondary role.
Given interview comments, it looks like the new one will involve human drama, AI, corporate intrigue and political conspiracy, etc., with the alien playing a secondary role as well. Maybe it'll be something like
Fargo in the space age, but with teens and young adults.
Lastly, the prequels, like some new movies in other franchises, rehash material, e.g., landing on a rock, a tall heroine with short, black hair, white T-shirt, etc., a crew member named "Tennessee" (like "Dallas" from the first), and so on. It's similar to the second
Mad Max movie rehashed for the latest one, or the first two
Star Wars movies rehashed in the first film in the sequel trilogy.
what the f**k are you talking about
Quote from: skhellter on Nov 12, 2023, 11:18:02 PMwhat the f**k are you talking about
https://y.yarn.co/8730d5c7-4173-415e-bb38-b99dc79f8c78_text.gif
Quote from: skhellter on Nov 12, 2023, 11:18:02 PMwhat the f**k are you talking about
(https://y.yarn.co/d1378cba-eb5c-4e7f-b669-e190b68d06d9_text.gif)
We should create a ralfymeter :-X
It looks like I have to dumb down. How's this?
The first movie is scary because the monster isn't shown fully until the end.
Because they already did that, then they couldn't repeat it for the second movie because audiences already knew more about the alien. So they used action involving many aliens.
They couldn't do that as well for the third movie. So they did a procedural: how do we kill and/or capture the monster without weapons? It's not the same as the first movie because audiences already know about the monster.
They couldn't do that for the fourth movie, so they used political intrigue: the company falls apart, the military takes over, they end up with all sorts of weird experiments (like cloning and mutations), and mercs come in, kidnapping civilians, etc.
Decades later, they realized that most people expected to watch new movies are young and had never seen nor heard about the first four movies, so they decide to kill several birds with one stone: come up with something new by looking at the origins of the alien, etc., and then reboot the franchise. However, borrow from the first four movies things that worked, like a crew landing on a rock and exploring and having a heroine who looks like Ripley.
Given all that, what happens now? It looks like Hawley wants to continue this, i.e., don't repeat what was done before. Given what he said in the interview, it looks like he wants to focus on human drama involving not only the alien but also AI, the company, etc.
Quote from: ralfy on Nov 22, 2023, 12:54:48 AMIt looks like I have to dumb down.
You weren't already doing that with all your posts?
Quote from: Scott Conover on Nov 22, 2023, 12:10:15 PMQuote from: ralfy on Nov 22, 2023, 12:54:48 AMIt looks like I have to dumb down.
You weren't already doing that with all your posts?
No. Ralfy believes that his posts are such obvious and solid fact that the entire internet disagreeing with him is just proof of his lonely, perfect genius (David8.gif) and we swine cannot appreciate his pearls.
Come on, move on folk.