Weyland Industries website updated w/ Corporate Timeline!

[Infected]

Im glad they regard Aliens and Alien3 as canon. (yes I liked Alien3)

I always liked to think predators and aliens exist in the same universe (though I hated the two avp movies)

Didnt the idea of weyland and yutani being two separate companies was first introduced in Paul Anderson's avp movie?

Yes me too except wasnt happy with Alien3 but i believe the predator (not the super predator crap) and the aliens exists in one world and the AVP movies were crap but i still believe there could be something good out of this.
Wouldnt mind if Ridley and Lindelof put them in a Prometheus film.
Because after all they arent the hunters anymore.

[Char]

The cancer thing could just mean that the theatrical version of Aliens is canon and not the director's cut.  I honestly don't really think Ripley has a daughter, because I ignore the inferior director's cut.  I also don't think it's clear in the theatrical cut that Newt's parents discover the derelict.  Some of this stuff was jettisoned for good reasons I think, because it was slightly corny.

[fiveways]

wrong quote, but now that you ask, the people that dislike Aliens usually have a grudge against Cameron in specific. they didn't like how the cast was pretty stereotypical(not unlike it was in alien), they disliked the way the movie used war themes(like alien was a glorified slasher), and they claim the movie dumbed down the aliens, despite them showing far more brilliance than than the first alien. most of the elements they complain in Aliens were present in Alien, but it's easier to turn a blind eye at them.

in resume, it's a mix of pretentiousness and extreme idealization of Alien as the perfect movie that had no flaws that warps their perception.

I have to admit as a child I loved "Aliens".  It is just a movie I feel like I have outgrown.  I don't really do action movies anymore.  Not my cup of tea.

I dislike James Cameron's use of mother/child relationship in a lot of his scifi.  I find it cheese on toast and leads to some of the corniest dialog in movie history.  It's not an "Aliens" example because, honestly, I haven't seen that movie in 15 years.  Sarah Connor's speech in Terminator 2 about giving birth is up there in my mind with some of the lowest points in dialog history.  No one speaks like that.  And I remember more then a few moments like that between Ripley and Newt.

I love the 4 days life span of the alien and think it makes the most sense given their growth rate.  Mature quickly and have a very short life span.  I like the pure instinct/lack of intelligence alien[it was simply looking for a way to reproduce].  I like the lack of queen and structure.  I love the morphing the crew into more eggs to continue the cycle.  I am not a fan of the Queen/warrior/worker thing.  It's probably the fan of "metal hurlant" in me because flaws and all that is how the original felt.  Like a really good '70's comic book.  Then again, that is what you get when you add Moebius and Giger to a '70's scifi movie.

Plus there is his lack of respect for the intellectual work of others, but that is neither here nor there because the original Terminator is still a great movie, and better then most of the stuff he "ripped off".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwyyJ3D3g1E#

In the end it is mostly different strokes.  A lot of the charm i found in the original Alien didn't translate to Aliens.  Again, be it a different director, different decade, different goals in what you want to accomplish artistically in a movie.  And I will be the first to admit that the charm I found in the original Alien is something a lot of people would hate. 

[Valaquen]

If I see that Ellison stuff again I'll scream. Not that anyone will hear me. (http://www.dvdvision.fr/jco/Ellison.htm)

As for the cancer/Aliens, they didn't cure all strains of cancer. It's in the timeline. Additionally, if you want to discuss Aliens critically, then we have a thread for that: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=42292.0

Let's keep on topic.

[fiveways]

If I see that Ellison stuff again I'll scream. Not that anyone will hear me. (http://www.dvdvision.fr/jco/Ellison.htm)

They didn't put in any of "Demon with a Glass Hand" which was the other episode Cameron creatively borrowed from.  Maybe I will dig out my copy and do that.

[Valaquen]

If I see that Ellison stuff again I'll scream. Not that anyone will hear me. (http://www.dvdvision.fr/jco/Ellison.htm)

They didn't put in any of "Demon with a Glass Hand" which was the other episode Cameron creatively borrowed from.  Maybe I will dig out my copy and do that.

Because according to Ellison himself: "'Terminator' was not stolen from 'Demon with a Glass Hand" - he pinned it entirely on Solider (that is, both stories feature a time traveller from a war-torn future arriving in the contemporary day - and that's it. If that constitutes a ripping off then Alien really is creatively bankrupt; save for the ideas nicked from 50's B-movies and literature). Source for Ellison's statement: http://harlanellison.com/heboard/archive/bull0108.htm

(You said "creatively borrowed from" in your last post rather than ripped off, so I hope I don't sound too churlish in my reply here)

[Char]

Glad to see the first film elitists that ran this forum beforehand now buried by new members.  Ahhhh.  How refreshing.  I'm pretty sure there's no fiction that doesn't borrow from something else out there, including Alien, so please just stop with the utter hypocrisy already.  I think O'Bannon straight up said he got the idea for Alien from a story in Heavy Metal.  >_>

[Valaquen]

I think O'Bannon straight up said he got the idea for Alien from a story in Heavy Metal.  >_>

Several stories and movies. Not from Heavy Metal though; that was fairly recent (est. '75 in France as Metal Hurlant - '77 as Heavy Metal in the US). O'Bannon was influenced by older pulp 'zines.

[acidpits]

I think O'Bannon straight up said he got the idea for Alien from a story in Heavy Metal.  >_>

Several stories and movies. Not from Heavy Metal though; that was fairly recent (est. '75 in France as Metal Hurlant - '77 as Heavy Metal in the US). O'Bannon was influenced by older pulp 'zines.

That and Scott always, ALWAYS admits that what he did was nothing particularly new in theme but absolutely was in style, pacing and aesthetics. 'It's the old house story' told in a different way. Now even talking about Chainsaw Massacre and the Exorcist as true originals.  Oh and Thelma and Louise...

[fiveways]

If I see that Ellison stuff again I'll scream. Not that anyone will hear me. (http://www.dvdvision.fr/jco/Ellison.htm)

They didn't put in any of "Demon with a Glass Hand" which was the other episode Cameron creatively borrowed from.  Maybe I will dig out my copy and do that.

Because according to Ellison himself: "'Terminator' was not stolen from 'Demon with a Glass Hand" - he pinned it entirely on Solider (that is, both stories feature a time traveller from a war-torn future arriving in the contemporary day - and that's it. If that constitutes a ripping off then Alien really is creatively bankrupt; save for the ideas nicked from 50's B-movies and literature). Source for Ellison's statement: http://harlanellison.com/heboard/archive/bull0108.htm

(You said "creatively borrowed from" in your last post rather than ripped off, so I hope I don't sound too churlish in my reply here)

I haven't read that Ellison statement before.  In the 80's he implied that he felt demon with a glass hand was borrowed from but I am gonna read it and see how that changed.  And by digging out demon with a glass hand, i mean hooking up a vcr and popping in a cassette.  Then again, it's prolly on youtube.

Also I openly state that one of the reason I like it so much IS BECAUSE it feels like a good heavy metal/metal hurlant strip.  And that "Aliens" has none of that feel to it. 

Ridley was the person who said he was really influenced my Moebius and Metal Hurlant, not Dan O'bannon.

[Char]

Ridley was the person who said he was really influenced my Moebius and Metal Hurlant, not Dan O'bannon.

I'm pretty sure O'Bannon introduced him to the magazine like he did Giger.  The guy wrote segments for Heavy Metal the film as well.  So this is a pretty moot point I think.  Although, I guess I was wrong about the story with the alien creature terrorizing a spaceship crew coming from Heavy Metal specifically.  But he did say it was from something he read.  Thus criticizing Cameron for using influences from stuff he read is a bit ridiculous.

Aliens may have been less like Heavy Metal maybe, but it was also extremely cutting edge, revolutionary scifi in its own right.  I still watch that movie and it's pretty much brand new to me.  It was a scifi game changer almost on the same level of the original in terms of influence.  I don't think it had to be like Alien either, and that's why it succeeds.  The best sequels are typically ones that do not replicate the original.

[eyesofthedemon]

Just because there's a cure for cancer doesn't mean everyone has access to it,see most of the third world today,things we take for granted due to a vaccine kill thousands in other less fortunate places on this earth,why would that change?

So the Cancer argument is void in my eyes

[Valaquen]

I'm pretty sure O'Bannon introduced him to the magazine like he did Giger.  The guy wrote segments for Heavy Metal the film as well. 

I know you're in my corner but I'm a stickler for pointing out that Ridley was already steeped into Heavy Metal long before Alien (he was wanting to make Tristan and Isolde as a Heavy Metal styled movie prior to Alien). O'Bannon's H.M. story, The Long Tomorrow, which Moebius inked, directly influenced much of Blade Runner, though. Scott referred to Alien as a simple film ("like rock n' roll") and B.R. as a Heavy Metal live-action strip 

[harlock]

Plus, looking at it, theres only money to be made in the treatment, not the cure. I think its likely Weyland created a serum to hold the progress of the cancer and a sufferer would need repeat shots or it'll spread again.

I am also concerned about the potential energy crisis Weyland would make in 2015 by using solar panels to create infinitely renewable solar energy. That would make companies go bust very quickly and with Weyland already holding a monopoly on the world's energy supply as everyone turns to Weyland Solar power, lots of people will be without jobs and this will spread to the use of technology reliant on fossil fuels etc, like automobiles.

Of course if Weyland employed the thousands of millions worldwide that lose their jobs from this, he will need the further funding from other companies to keep everyone paid. Already by the late 2010s he would have a MegaCorp.

[Game_Over_Man]

Just because there's a cure for cancer doesn't mean everyone has access to it,see most of the third world today,things we take for granted due to a vaccine kill thousands in other less fortunate places on this earth,why would that change?

So the Cancer argument is void in my eyes

Good point.

I personally feel Ripley's daughter did't die from cancer, but rather some brutal interrogation from the company.