All Star Wars

Started by CELTICPRED, Dec 13, 2006, 05:23:55 AM

Author
All Star Wars (Read 2,336,900 times)

The Eighth Passenger

The Eighth Passenger

#27270
Quote from: St_Eddie on Jul 02, 2022, 04:20:52 PM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jun 30, 2022, 02:10:20 PMI mean, how can someone who doesn't like Star Wars even consider himself human? It's like someone who doesn't like bacon like me  or something! :o

22% of the world's population identify as vegetarian, including myself, so lots of people don't like bacon.

Muslims and Jews don't eat bacon either. Which means the majority of the world's population don't like bacon.

Mr. Clemens

Mr. Clemens

#27271
Quote from: ace3g on Jul 04, 2022, 02:04:44 PMhttps://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1543947997146497026

Just when I'd vowed to stop coming to this dumb thread, some information. Thank you.

Highland

Highland

#27272
Quote from: bb-15 on Jul 04, 2022, 06:55:02 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jun 14, 2022, 05:36:42 AMThe actions of the people don't make any sense. For one Reva is trying to get out of Leia the locations ( or something) of the tunnels/rebels. How would she know this? Is this explained in some part of the show that I missed? Then the infiltrator lady (don't know her name) just sits at a desk an directs obi-wan in front of other Empire officers, then gets spotted and takes this officer out in the same room?

Obiwan in the ship can't seem to move a piece of metal, then an hour later he's holding back water tunnels.

That's aside from them being able walk out (nobody sounded an alarm?) then the snow speeders just fly up to the port without any Tie fighters spotting them? Perhaps on paper the script is better, but the way this is being sold is just not believable. 

It doesn't flow, I'm personally taken out of the show too much, too many ...what? Moments.  :'(

I understand the concern but being an older guy these story glitches don't bother me.
- I saw the original trilogy when I was an adult. I became a Star Wars fan but I was critical of some things since the beginning. I got to talk to the producers about my concerns by phone on a sci-fi radio show in LA called Hour 25.

Eventually, I came to realize that Star Wars is loaded with inconsistencies which require an adult to find justifications or just accept it. But a child growing up with the story may not notice certain things.

Examples;
* In Empire, Luke in the station at first can't hold on to his lightsaber, then a minute later he's wounding Vader on his arm.

These kinds of things set up 'rules' within Star Wars where a Force character can be very weak at first but then as they use the Force, they can quickly become powerful. 

* In ANH; Vader is trying to get out of Leia the location of the rebel base. How would she know this? After all Leia is only transporting plans for the Death Star. That doesn't mean she knows anything else about the rebel alliance.
- But this kind of character connection becomes a shorthand for the script. Someone involved in the rebel alliance knows everything about it, therefore torturing her will tell us all we want to know.
- In ANH itself Tarkin partly questions this very reasoning. Does Leia really know the location of the rebel base? Is she hiding it?

- As for the Obi-Wan show, the scenes with young Leia are sometimes mimicking what was done with older Leia in the original trilogy.

* Then in Empire the rebel ships just fly away from the Hoth planet without any Tie fighters (from multiple Star Destroyers) spotting them?
The way this scene is being sold is just not believable. 

- Under close scrutiny much of Star Wars' story structure falls apart. This just wasn't noticed as children. Again as an adult I just roll with most of it.

* Basic concepts;
- Villain decay; Star Wars villains have overwhelming power and they just let their advantage slip away. They have to, otherwise the heroes would not win. Villain leaders act like Bond villains who talk away as they lose. Stormtroopers are almost always just fools. 
In ANH, no trooper on the Death Star can find the right trash compactor?
Vader after his Obi-wan chat can't open a blast door to get to the Falcon? 
- Star Wars canon is also quirky with multiple strange ideas being established often because fans demand it.
Examples; Dark Maul gets cut in half in Phantom Menace. He should be dead. Fans demand his return and so it becomes canon that Dark Force users can will themselves alive after massive injuries.
- Same with Boba Fett, fans want him alive so he survives the Sarlacc Pit.
* More quirky canon; In Return of the Jedi; Teddy bears with Stone Age weapons defeat a squad of Stormtroopers who have body armor, laser weapons and walking tanks. It's absurd.
- What is being sold, including the original trilogy and since then, is just not believable. It's a fantasy story. Lucas says it's for kids and he's mostly right.

8)

I'm usually ok with some counter points, but I don't agree with anything you said  :laugh:

The movies have the grace that there are a lot of things we don't know and we are thrust into a story in the middle, we don't know who Leia is or what she's done. Nobody came out the movie thinking, how did Leia know where the Rebel base was.

In the Obi-wan show we are literally living it moment by moment so when things happen out of turn it's like....didn't you watch this stuff back? Leia ( a ten year old) seen one tunnel and is now in on the whole operation...

It wouldn't even bother me if she was just torturing her to get Obi-wan to come, just don't put daft things like that in there.

Someone said somewhere that the obiwan show was written back wards and that's what it feels like. It feels like people are doing random things to make a story up rather than making a good story up and getting people to play it out.

I have tried to justify that these are for kids, but it doesn't fly. Kids shows can be good too, it's not like the action was off the charts, was your stock standard action scenes. If it was a spectacle I'd buy that but its not. Its probably quite boring for a kid too.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#27273
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jul 04, 2022, 04:41:42 PM
Quote from: ace3g on Jul 04, 2022, 02:04:44 PMhttps://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1543947997146497026

Just when I'd vowed to stop coming to this dumb thread, some information. Thank you.

Check back often for updates about Supernatural Encounters.

The Eighth Passenger

The Eighth Passenger

#27274
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jul 04, 2022, 04:41:42 PM
Quote from: ace3g on Jul 04, 2022, 02:04:44 PMhttps://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1543947997146497026

Just when I'd vowed to stop coming to this dumb thread, some information. Thank you.

Should'na landed on this damn thread, I know that!

TilotnyWorshiper28

TilotnyWorshiper28

#27275
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 04, 2022, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jul 04, 2022, 04:41:42 PM
Quote from: ace3g on Jul 04, 2022, 02:04:44 PMhttps://twitter.com/empiremagazine/status/1543947997146497026

Just when I'd vowed to stop coming to this dumb thread, some information. Thank you.

Check back often for updates about Supernatural Encounters.

no updates until July 15 sadly 

ace3g

ace3g

#27276

bb-15

bb-15

#27277
Quote from: Highland on Jul 04, 2022, 04:56:45 PM
Quote from: bb-15 on Jul 04, 2022, 06:55:02 AM
Quote from: Highland on Jun 14, 2022, 05:36:42 AMThe actions of the people don't make any sense. For one Reva is trying to get out of Leia the locations ( or something) of the tunnels/rebels. How would she know this? Is this explained in some part of the show that I missed? Then the infiltrator lady (don't know her name) just sits at a desk an directs obi-wan in front of other Empire officers, then gets spotted and takes this officer out in the same room?

Obiwan in the ship can't seem to move a piece of metal, then an hour later he's holding back water tunnels.

That's aside from them being able walk out (nobody sounded an alarm?) then the snow speeders just fly up to the port without any Tie fighters spotting them? Perhaps on paper the script is better, but the way this is being sold is just not believable. 

It doesn't flow, I'm personally taken out of the show too much, too many ...what? Moments.  :'(

I understand the concern but being an older guy these story glitches don't bother me.
- I saw the original trilogy when I was an adult. I became a Star Wars fan but I was critical of some things since the beginning. I got to talk to the producers about my concerns by phone on a sci-fi radio show in LA called Hour 25.

Eventually, I came to realize that Star Wars is loaded with inconsistencies which require an adult to find justifications or just accept it. But a child growing up with the story may not notice certain things.

Examples;
* In Empire, Luke in the station at first can't hold on to his lightsaber, then a minute later he's wounding Vader on his arm.

These kinds of things set up 'rules' within Star Wars where a Force character can be very weak at first but then as they use the Force, they can quickly become powerful. 

* In ANH; Vader is trying to get out of Leia the location of the rebel base. How would she know this? After all Leia is only transporting plans for the Death Star. That doesn't mean she knows anything else about the rebel alliance.
- But this kind of character connection becomes a shorthand for the script. Someone involved in the rebel alliance knows everything about it, therefore torturing her will tell us all we want to know.
- In ANH itself Tarkin partly questions this very reasoning. Does Leia really know the location of the rebel base? Is she hiding it?

- As for the Obi-Wan show, the scenes with young Leia are sometimes mimicking what was done with older Leia in the original trilogy.

* Then in Empire the rebel ships just fly away from the Hoth planet without any Tie fighters (from multiple Star Destroyers) spotting them?
The way this scene is being sold is just not believable. 

- Under close scrutiny much of Star Wars' story structure falls apart. This just wasn't noticed as children. Again as an adult I just roll with most of it.

* Basic concepts;
- Villain decay; Star Wars villains have overwhelming power and they just let their advantage slip away. They have to, otherwise the heroes would not win. Villain leaders act like Bond villains who talk away as they lose. Stormtroopers are almost always just fools. 
In ANH, no trooper on the Death Star can find the right trash compactor?
Vader after his Obi-wan chat can't open a blast door to get to the Falcon? 
- Star Wars canon is also quirky with multiple strange ideas being established often because fans demand it.
Examples; Dark Maul gets cut in half in Phantom Menace. He should be dead. Fans demand his return and so it becomes canon that Dark Force users can will themselves alive after massive injuries.
- Same with Boba Fett, fans want him alive so he survives the Sarlacc Pit.
* More quirky canon; In Return of the Jedi; Teddy bears with Stone Age weapons defeat a squad of Stormtroopers who have body armor, laser weapons and walking tanks. It's absurd.
- What is being sold, including the original trilogy and since then, is just not believable. It's a fantasy story. Lucas says it's for kids and he's mostly right.

8)

I'm usually ok with some counter points, but I don't agree with anything you said  :laugh:

The movies have the grace that there are a lot of things we don't know and we are thrust into a story in the middle, we don't know who Leia is or what she's done. Nobody came out the movie thinking, how did Leia know where the Rebel base was.

In the Obi-wan show we are literally living it moment by moment so when things happen out of turn it's like....didn't you watch this stuff back? Leia ( a ten year old) seen one tunnel and is now in on the whole operation...

It wouldn't even bother me if she was just torturing her to get Obi-wan to come, just don't put daft things like that in there.

Someone said somewhere that the obiwan show was written back wards and that's what it feels like. It feels like people are doing random things to make a story up rather than making a good story up and getting people to play it out.

I have tried to justify that these are for kids, but it doesn't fly. Kids shows can be good too, it's not like the action was off the charts, was your stock standard action scenes. If it was a spectacle I'd buy that but its not. Its probably quite boring for a kid too.

It's fine if you don't agree with anything I said.  ;D
I've had many debates about Star Wars which are like this. No problem.
You disliking the Obi-wan series is everyone's privilege.
I'm replying for my own entertainment and because I've been deeply into Star Wars for a long time.

"we don't know who Leia is or what she's done."

* And Vader and Tarkin were also limited in their information in ANH. They had an idea that Death Star plans were involved but they don't know much beyond that. This was why they tortured Leia.

"Nobody came out the movie thinking, how did Leia know where the Rebel base was."

* I came out of the ANH movie thinking that Vader and Tarkin were grasping for information.
- If Vader in ANH was all knowing, then the mind probe on Leia would not have been a failure.
- But Star Wars villains in general are far from all knowing and that includes the Emperor at the end of Return of the Jedi.

Spoiler
" In the Obi-wan show we are literally living it moment by moment so when things happen out of turn it's like....didn't you watch this stuff back? Leia ( a ten year old) seen one tunnel and is now in on the whole operation..."
[close]

- The key work is "we", meaning we the audience.
The villains "didn't ... watch this stuff back"
Villains don't know everything, but they are willing to torture to find out more information, about what intel was passed along. It's something that SW villains have done and even worse. More about that below.   

* Anyway, you have emphasized your arguments and repeated some of that. I'll do the same.
Nitpicking on one torture scene ignores the bigger issues which I brought up about the Star Wars franchise. It's a fantasy and it has fantasy elements.

In Empire, Luke gets stronger very quickly. In Empire the rebel ships fly away from the Hoth planet without any harassment from Tie fighters. In ANH, no trooper on the Death Star can find the right trash compactor which connects to the tube from the detention level. In ANH Vader, after his Obi-wan chat, can't open a blast door to get to the Falcon. In Phantom Menace Darth Maul gets cut in half but he is brought back to life in Clone Wars & Solo so it becomes canon that Dark Force users can will themselves alive after massive injuries. Boba Fett survives the deadly Sarlacc Pit because of reasons. In Return of the Jedi; Teddy bears with Stone Age weapons defeat a squad of Stormtroopers who have body armor, laser weapons and walking tanks.

* After all of that fantasy material (and there is much more) now we are sort of supposed to apply real world police proceedings to Empire arrests?
I'm exaggerating but should people being arrested in SW have a lawyer?
- I'll get real.
This is in a franchise where in Phantom, Anakin is walking through the Jedi Temple and he is chopping up kids.
Smh. That's how these arguments go.
Lots of people love Phantom where cutting up kids, who did nothing wrong, is just fine.
So, if a villain had put a lightsaber through a young girl's chest, that would have been OK? (The character could be resurrected of course.)
But torture a kid? That is completely wrong!!! according to the debate.

* Anyway, I'm not changing anybody's mind here. It is what it is.
This reply was for me.

8)   

Highland

Highland

#27278
I still think you're comparing apples to oranges. I could counter most of those points, but honesty you enjoyed it ,power to you, I thought it was straight trash apart from the last episode and I'm not alone it appears.

While the OT isn't perfect, its structured well. Lukes power level gradually increases with as much screen time is available, scenes are linked. You're talking about tie fighters ....they sent a whole army (and a planetary shield) to capture the rebels.... Obiwan just walks out in a coat  :laugh:

It's possible to have a simple story that's still engaging ( see Mando).

 :-\

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#27279
Couple things...

Vader said in the beginning of ANH that Leia was a part of the Rebel Alliance and his only link to finding their hidden base.  He was playing a hunch, but it was based on some pretty strong evidence.  I'm not sure why it's considered a leap that he ended up being right.

Also...

We don't know that the Empire didn't launch fighters against the rebel transports.  We only saw one of them and it was just the first of many.  I wouldn't be surprised if they launched fighters against the rest, but they were also escorted by X-wing fighters and presumably had operational hyperdrives.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#27280

TilotnyWorshiper28

TilotnyWorshiper28

#27281
Andor's story is intertwined with that of Mon Mothma - the legendary Rebel leader from the Original Trilogy, who returned in Rogue One, played by Genevieve O'Reilly (previously cast in the role for a scene cut from 2005's Episode III - Revenge Of The Sith). Her arc across the five years will prove tumultuous."In Rogue One, she's a leader of the Rebellion. When we start Andor, she's steeped in Empire," 'Reilly explains. Mothma has a long, complicated involvement with the Galactic Senate, which sees her wrestling with autocracy while trying to implement change fromwithin."That's where we start," says O'Reilly. "Now, we know she fails, right? That's exciting.It all adds up to a show aiming to dig deeper into the dirt of the Star Wars universe than any story that's come before. "If Star Wars is a very successful hotel or restaurant, we're in the kitchen," says Gilroy. "We're the molecular, the granular, we're behind, underneath. We've got 1,500 pages of script to tell that story. So we have a lot of things to say, and we explore pretty deeply." Strap in for one ambitious incoming square meal

https://preview.redd.it/vv1u0i5k8s991.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0a9a0a118503de113a871b3c2e2e3e9af09f9b4c

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#27282
Quote from: TilotnyWorshiper28 on Jul 05, 2022, 08:20:01 PMAndor's story is intertwined with that of Mon Mothma - the legendary Rebel leader from the Original Trilogy, who returned in Rogue One, played by Genevieve O'Reilly (previously cast in the role for a scene cut from 2005's Episode III - Revenge Of The Sith). Her arc across the five years will prove tumultuous."In Rogue One, she's a leader of the Rebellion. When we start Andor, she's steeped in Empire," 'Reilly explains. Mothma has a long, complicated involvement with the Galactic Senate, which sees her wrestling with autocracy while trying to implement change fromwithin."That's where we start," says O'Reilly. "Now, we know she fails, right? That's exciting.It all adds up to a show aiming to dig deeper into the dirt of the Star Wars universe than any story that's come before. "If Star Wars is a very successful hotel or restaurant, we're in the kitchen," says Gilroy. "We're the molecular, the granular, we're behind, underneath. We've got 1,500 pages of script to tell that story. So we have a lot of things to say, and we explore pretty deeply." Strap in for one ambitious incoming square meal

https://preview.redd.it/vv1u0i5k8s991.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0a9a0a118503de113a871b3c2e2e3e9af09f9b4c

Interesting!

Local Trouble


TilotnyWorshiper28


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