Watching it today after it's been sometime I find myself seeing all the silly stuff from the early 2000's and some gleaming special effects issues.
In your opinion has AVP aged very well?
No.
It wasn't really of a high enough quality to begin with in order to age well.
Agreed.
I actually really disliked the film initially. I've somewhat warmed to it over time though. Its got some nice visuals and its a kinda fun adventure film/creature feature.
AvPR is the only film in the franchise that i think is straight up terrible. Maybe The Predator too
I enjoyed the movie more as a kid than now.
I liked it in theaters, didn't like it on home release, but honestly it's grown on me like a mould.
Quote from: SM on Mar 21, 2019, 01:04:43 AM
It wasn't really of a high enough quality to begin with in order to age well.
Good point!
You know how the resident evil movies suck and differ so much from the games?
That's how it is with avp. I wonder why that is? ;D
Quote from: Huggs on Mar 21, 2019, 04:18:19 AM
You know how the resident evil movies suck and differ so much from the games?
That's how it is with avp. I wonder why that is? ;D
:D Paul W.S. Anderson.
For me it aged well, I liked it from 2004 though.
Still a pretty enjoyable movie. I don't understand the Anderson hate.
At the time we thought we might get something more akin to Event Horizon as far as style, horror and some good actors. So deflated with what we ended up with.
Some of the cinematography is still top class, though.
To me age hasn't helped it. But to be completely fair, I didn't like it back in 2004 either.
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 22, 2019, 10:39:48 AM
At the time we thought we might get something more akin to Event Horizon as far as style, horror and some good actors. So deflated with what we ended up with.
It's a real shame we didn't get something more like Event Horizon. It really is. That Anderson looked like the man for the job.
I've softened to AvP a lot over the years too. It's not a bad movie, it's just okay.
I have soft place for AVP (movie) in my heart especially because it introduced me to Queen. I think movie portrayed her really well. That scene when she rises from her personal "fridge" and electricity starts to wake her up is gorgeous.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vSfuNdiEEI8/WAJSbFZ28dI/AAAAAAABuKY/DvDjnAu4z1gW7umqxDK2EwtsZR549toswCLcB/s400/tumblr_mxgzs7Cro81sl5leko1_400.gif)
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NegativeBitesizedGroundhog-max-1mb.gif)
I like that scene too.
Unlike the Predators, other than the rapid life cycle, I do think Aliens came off pretty well in AvP.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 23, 2019, 01:55:01 PM
I like that scene too.
Unlike the Crabators, other than the rapid life cycle, I do think Aliens came off pretty well in AvP.
Fixed. :laugh:
Ha good catch. Unlike me, you're clearly firing on all cylinders this morning! ;)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 23, 2019, 02:05:40 PM
Ha good catch. Unlike me, you're clearly firing on all cylinders this morning! ;)
I'm in a moderately good mood. Got a full night's sleep, coffee, and got some good ideas for my current book.
The creative juices are flowing.
Spoiler
Plus, I got an ambitious project going for my art thread.
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 23, 2019, 12:58:46 PM
I have soft place for AVP (movie) in my heart especially because it introduced me to Queen. I think movie portrayed her really well. That scene when she rises from her personal "fridge" and electricity starts to wake her up is gorgeous.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vSfuNdiEEI8/WAJSbFZ28dI/AAAAAAABuKY/DvDjnAu4z1gW7umqxDK2EwtsZR549toswCLcB/s400/tumblr_mxgzs7Cro81sl5leko1_400.gif
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NegativeBitesizedGroundhog-max-1mb.gif
It's decent enough up to the point where we see the eggs being laid and we get possibly the most obvious model shot in any of the movies.
The prequels make it look a bit better in hindsight, but not by much.
Quote from: SiL on Mar 21, 2019, 02:30:33 AM
I liked it in theaters, didn't like it on home release, but honestly it's grown on me like a mould.
^ This.
Watching it in theaters back in 04'. I enjoyed it because I was seeing it with friends.
After that I realized I actually wasn't that big a fan. I didn't touch it upon home release because of that.
But, all these years later? I can appreciate it more than I did then. Still not my preferred film from either franchise. Not by a long shot.
So yeah, it hasn't aged well overall. However, there are some minor things I can appreciate about it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 22, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
To me age hasn't helped it. But to be completely fair, I didn't like it back in 2004 either.
I feel like when the film reaches the pyramid it takes a downward spiral into something goofy. All the acting and dialouge is corny and stale and the jokes and nods are pretty notably out of the early 2000's era. The creature effects and special effects are pretty cool but I completely agree that age has not helped it whatsoever.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 23, 2019, 01:55:01 PM
Unlike the Predators, other than the rapid life cycle, I do think Aliens came off pretty well in AvP.
I don't know about that. The alien that jumps on Lex's spear and fails to use its arms or tail was pretty daft.
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 24, 2019, 11:02:01 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 23, 2019, 01:55:01 PM
Unlike the Predators, other than the rapid life cycle, I do think Aliens came off pretty well in AvP.
I don't know about that. The alien that jumps on Lex's spear and fails to use its arms or tail was pretty daft.
But when compared to the Crabators in football pads in vey human, cold steel aesthetic ships that were worshipped as Gods... oh baby did the Aliens come off well. ;)
My mind's version of the film is superior, the genuine experience of viewership is dull excruciation.
Especially the designs of both adversaries.
Fair point.
Just making a relative comparison in badness, as in which adversary got pummeled worse, not by their opponent ironically, but by their creators, even though bruises resulted throughout. ;)
AvP grown on me with time. Fifteen years later ( fifteen years! God the time runs) we've seen it is hard to do much better and really not that hard to do much worse. It did age well though and still looks fresh. To be honest last years The Predator had subpair cgi compared to teenage AvP.
It's stinky.
Quote from: Master on Mar 24, 2019, 08:59:11 PM
AvP grown on me with time. Fifteen years later ( fifteen years! God the time runs) we've seen it is hard to do much better and really not that hard to do much worse. It did age well though and still looks fresh. To be honest last years The Predator had subpair cgi compared to teenage AvP.
Which is really sad because it should be quite straightforward to make a really awesome AvP.
Its so easy to screw up with people that are terrible on their job in charge.
Indeed. :-\
I think if you got a director that has a descent track record and knew how to make an in-depth developed story between the Alien and Predators that would be cool. Back in the day I thought even including surviving characters from both the Alien and Predator series and including them in a crossover battle of sorts would be pretty neat.
The most annoying thing was that all of AVP's faults were surface level mistakes that could have been easily fixed. Leaner Predators, bio mechanical aliens, more gore and more memorable human characters. It could have been a much better movie
The extra blood in AvP didn't improve it.
Surface level?
The script is a core obstacle.
You could certainly improve the movie a little with small tweaks here and there.
But to make it significantly better, it would have to be a completely different movie.
Agreed.
Do Alien movies really need gore though?
I see people picking AVP-R over AVP because it was gorier. But is that really what makes it better?
I like to see the creatures showing what they are capable of, without the gory its just weird. Something I liked about the games was what the mess you could make with the bodies of your enemies.
The Alien/Predator gore on AVP was quite good, it wouldn't have been the same if it was that blood didn't show up. But the human gore was missing, the chestburst scenes felt weird without it.
AVPR fixed that aspect but it wasn't enough to cover the other issues. But still it wasn't as gore was some games. For me its more about the kills than the gore itself, just repeating the same headbite or plasma shot gets boring, in the games you could see the creatures being more creative.
The AvP fight choreography makes me cringe....
soooo....
much.....
(https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif?w=500&h=280)
#AVPRallDAY
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 26, 2019, 01:36:47 AM
The AvP fight choreography makes me cringe....
soooo....
much.....
https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif?w=500&h=280
#AVPRallDAY
At least the AvP Aliens remembered they had bladed tails.
The normal aliens barely used their tails as weapons before AVP. Well the Predalien remembered how to use it on the end.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Mar 26, 2019, 01:45:11 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 26, 2019, 01:36:47 AM
The AvP fight choreography makes me cringe....
soooo....
much.....
https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif?w=500&h=280
#AVPRallDAY
At least the AvP Aliens remembered they had bladed tails.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l1J9u3TZfpmeDLkD6/giphy.gif)
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 25, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
Do Alien movies really need gore though?
I see people picking AVP-R over AVP because it was gorier. But is that really what makes it better?
Aliens are born from exploding out of peoples chests, then bite people in the head.
Predators cause carnage with their lasers and rip peoples spines out.
Yes, they do need a certain level of gore.
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2019, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 25, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
Do Alien movies really need gore though?
I see people picking AVP-R over AVP because it was gorier. But is that really what makes it better?
Aliens are born from exploding out of peoples chests, then bite people in the head.
Predators cause carnage with their lasers and rip peoples spines out.
Yes, they do need a certain level of gore.
You don't have to show the impact of the headbiting.
Most of the first three Alien movies are a (relatively) bloodless affair, except for one or two scenes. Things got gorey with Resurrection, AVP-R and Covenant. Prometheus doesn't have a lot of bloody scenes either.
Predator is a different story though, but the Alien movies never were about showing as much gore as possible.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 26, 2019, 01:58:52 AM
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Mar 26, 2019, 01:45:11 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 26, 2019, 01:36:47 AM
The AvP fight choreography makes me cringe....
soooo....
much.....
https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif?w=500&h=280
#AVPRallDAY
At least the AvP Aliens remembered they had bladed tails.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l1J9u3TZfpmeDLkD6/giphy.gif
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 26, 2019, 01:36:47 AM
The AvP fight choreography makes me cringe....
soooo....
much.....
https://expresselevatortohell.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/alien-vs-predator-2004-avp-celtic-vs-grid-imgur.gif?w=500&h=280
#AVPRallDAY
LMAO 🤣
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 26, 2019, 12:48:19 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2019, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 25, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
Do Alien movies really need gore though?
I see people picking AVP-R over AVP because it was gorier. But is that really what makes it better?
Aliens are born from exploding out of peoples chests, then bite people in the head.
Predators cause carnage with their lasers and rip peoples spines out.
Yes, they do need a certain level of gore.
You don't have to show the impact of the headbiting.
Most of the first three Alien movies are a (relatively) bloodless affair, except for one or two scenes. Things got gorey with Resurrection, AVP-R and Covenant. Prometheus doesn't have a lot of bloody scenes either.
Predator is a different story though, but the Alien movies never were about showing as much gore as possible.
Setting aside the nonsensical "bloodless" - even "relatively" so - I said "a certain level of gore."
I don't think "a certain level of gore" would've made AVP any better.
Considering where starting from a low base and the laughably dumb chestburstering of Rousseau and Sebastian - it can only have improved things. Even if only slightly. I'm talking about proper chestburstering - not some badly CGed blood in post.
AVP would have been much better if it had egg barfing.
(https://images.fandango.com/r1.0.620/ImageRenderer/1040/650/redesign/areas/movie/moviesubpages/img/noimage_900x900.jpg/61566/images/masterrepository/tms/61566/61566_be.jpg)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 27, 2019, 01:17:16 AM
AVP would have been much better if it had egg barfing.
(https://images.fandango.com/r1.0.620/ImageRenderer/1040/650/redesign/areas/movie/moviesubpages/img/noimage_900x900.jpg/61566/images/masterrepository/tms/61566/61566_be.jpg)
Say AH!
Quote from: Huggs on Mar 27, 2019, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 27, 2019, 01:17:16 AM
AVP would have been much better if it had egg barfing.
(https://images.fandango.com/r1.0.620/ImageRenderer/1040/650/redesign/areas/movie/moviesubpages/img/noimage_900x900.jpg/61566/images/masterrepository/tms/61566/61566_be.jpg)
Say AH!
AH!
(https://i.imgur.com/gQPQiH3.jpg)
Quote from: Samhain13 on Mar 27, 2019, 02:24:01 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Mar 27, 2019, 02:15:53 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 27, 2019, 01:17:16 AM
AVP would have been much better if it had egg barfing.
(https://images.fandango.com/r1.0.620/ImageRenderer/1040/650/redesign/areas/movie/moviesubpages/img/noimage_900x900.jpg/61566/images/masterrepository/tms/61566/61566_be.jpg)
Say AH!
AH!
(https://i.imgur.com/gQPQiH3.jpg)
First date. Wow.
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-01-2015/sZwQ7K.gif)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 27, 2019, 04:05:51 AM
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-01-2015/sZwQ7K.gif
(https://img0.etsystatic.com/179/0/11120221/il_570xN.1084946396_n5gx.jpg)
The special effects have aged quite well. Both the cgi and the practical.
Honestly, yeah. The fake blood added to the unrated cut was never good, but the effects in the film proper have honestly stood up pretty well.
Indeed.
It was on sometime the week before and i was honestly suprised that they stood up that well.
I agree a lot still looks alright. Although, the CGI of the aliens running up to the Queen before they free her looks a bit video-gamey. I also find a lot of stuff tends to look too rubbery, like facehuggers, chestbursters, Predator faces, mainly anything fleshy.
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 29, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
I agree a lot still looks alright. Although, the CGI of the aliens running up to the Queen before they free her looks a bit video-gamey. I also find a lot of stuff tends to look too rubbery, like facehuggers, chestbursters, Predator faces, mainly anything fleshy.
(https://images.app.goo.gl/zXVvnp8MYLzdtMBS6)
Totally agree and the way the Predators looked was way too fat, bulky and dumb looking. I've never seen such big Predator suits which took away from that cool stealthy look they always have.
Ahhh, as always I have to say it. It's better to have additional armour when dealing with three meters of claws, teeth, sharp tail and corrosive blood. Same with weaponry, you want to have as much distance as possible.
With lower amount of armour Grid would've had a smoking whole in abdomen, after Grid's acid squirt.
Quote from: LastSurvivor92 on Apr 02, 2019, 12:56:55 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 29, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
I agree a lot still looks alright. Although, the CGI of the aliens running up to the Queen before they free her looks a bit video-gamey. I also find a lot of stuff tends to look too rubbery, like facehuggers, chestbursters, Predator faces, mainly anything fleshy.
https://images.app.goo.gl/zXVvnp8MYLzdtMBS6
Totally agree and the way the Predators looked was way too fat, bulky and dumb looking. I've never seen such big Predator suits which took away from that cool stealthy look they always have.
Hut! Hut! Hut! Hike!(https://i.imgflip.com/f50k4.gif)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 02, 2019, 12:23:05 PM
Quote from: LastSurvivor92 on Apr 02, 2019, 12:56:55 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 29, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
I agree a lot still looks alright. Although, the CGI of the aliens running up to the Queen before they free her looks a bit video-gamey. I also find a lot of stuff tends to look too rubbery, like facehuggers, chestbursters, Predator faces, mainly anything fleshy.
https://images.app.goo.gl/zXVvnp8MYLzdtMBS6
Totally agree and the way the Predators looked was way too fat, bulky and dumb looking. I've never seen such big Predator suits which took away from that cool stealthy look they always have.
Hut! Hut! Hut! Hike!
https://i.imgflip.com/f50k4.gif
Foul on the goal line, targeting.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Apr 02, 2019, 12:34:14 PM
Foul on the goal line, targeting.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F18zjleybrdvcegif%2Fku-xlarge.gif&hash=ee890a730eae2b1e20214c0cd6d3434775e0383c)
Aliens get the ball!
Quote from: LastSurvivor92 on Apr 02, 2019, 12:56:55 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Mar 29, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
I agree a lot still looks alright. Although, the CGI of the aliens running up to the Queen before they free her looks a bit video-gamey. I also find a lot of stuff tends to look too rubbery, like facehuggers, chestbursters, Predator faces, mainly anything fleshy.
https://images.app.goo.gl/zXVvnp8MYLzdtMBS6
Totally agree and the way the Predators looked was way too fat, bulky and dumb looking. I've never seen such big Predator suits which took away from that cool stealthy look they always have.
Its mainly the armor that causes that issue, when Celtic takes parts of it off, he doesn't look that bad.
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Really Scar? I though his armor looked the bulkiest of them all. And those huge dreads didn't help on his design. The ones in the flashback were fine.
Quote from: Master on Apr 02, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Ahhh, as always I have to say it. It's better to have additional armour when dealing with three meters of claws, teeth, sharp tail and corrosive blood. Same with weaponry, you want to have as much distance as possible.
They didn't had much armor covering their thighs though, Anytime and Wolf had more protection on their thighs than the AVP predators. Issue isn't the additional armor but the design, looked generic and kind of fake.
Comics and games showed better examples of how heavily armored predators should look, and they kept their athletic moves on it.
(https://samhain13home.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/b-4.png?w=556&h=535)
(https://www.electricferret.com/static/images/cbub/cbub_contender_image/5/5254/8310.jpg)
(https://samhain13home.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/m5bb-2.png?w=1024)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/04/AvP2AncientPred.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20140201001434)
I don't remember about people complaining that those other Predators looked fat or dumb.
I honestly always thought Monolith's Predator appeared dumb af. But worked for the comic-book artstyle.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 02, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Really Scar? I though his armor looked the bulkiest of them all. And those huge dreads didn't help on his design. The ones in the flashback were fine.
Without going and grabbing the actual screenshots, I thought he looked fine here:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/02082016_01.jpg)
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 02, 2019, 04:34:52 PM
I honestly always thought Monolith's Predator appeared dumb af. But worked for the comic-book artstyle.
You mean the heavy predator model? I liked how they tried to make each Predator look distinct from each other, not only in color and armor, but in bone structure and muscle mass as well. Light and Ancient looked quite different I guess but since we had the "standard" predator model too, I didn't mind such additions.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 02, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Really Scar? I though his armor looked the bulkiest of them all. And those huge dreads didn't help on his design. The ones in the flashback were fine.
Without going and grabbing the actual screenshots, I thought he looked fine here:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/02082016_01.jpg)
Might be one of his best shots.
They were less bulky on the concept art. The issue probably arrived when ADI made the armor.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2004/08/20040803_05.jpg)
The concept art's fantastic.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 02, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Really Scar? I though his armor looked the bulkiest of them all. And those huge dreads didn't help on his design. The ones in the flashback were fine.
Without going and grabbing the actual screenshots, I thought he looked fine here:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/02082016_01.jpg)
I think it looks fine there because of the shoulder pads are hidden in shadow / dreads.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BM2IyODdjNjUtZjY5MS00NDlhLTg3NjgtYzRjOWRmYjhjNjUwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjQwMDg0Ng@@._V1_.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rR0OqaAEQcc/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZDBiZTA2YzctYzk3My00OWY1LWI5MDYtYzI3MmVhY2JhZGE1XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjQ4ODE4MzQ@._V1_.jpg)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZTg5YWNiNmMtNzVlYy00ZjFmLWJjZmUtNDNlMTliYzEzMzczXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjQ4ODE4MzQ@._V1_SX1777_CR0,0,1777,757_AL_.jpg)
I think the no neck against the American Football shoulder pads combine to make the awful, bulky look.
Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 02, 2019, 04:31:09 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
There's some shots of Scar where he looks pretty lithe too.
Really Scar? I though his armor looked the bulkiest of them all. And those huge dreads didn't help on his design. The ones in the flashback were fine.
Quote from: Master on Apr 02, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Ahhh, as always I have to say it. It's better to have additional armour when dealing with three meters of claws, teeth, sharp tail and corrosive blood. Same with weaponry, you want to have as much distance as possible.
They didn't had much armor covering their thighs though, Anytime and Wolf had more protection on their thighs than the AVP predators. Issue isn't the additional armor but the design, looked generic and kind of fake.
Comics and games showed better examples of how heavily armored predators should look, and they kept their athletic moves on it.
https://samhain13home.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/b-4.png?w=556&h=535
https://www.electricferret.com/static/images/cbub/cbub_contender_image/5/5254/8310.jpg
(https://samhain13home.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/m5bb-2.png?w=1024)
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/04/AvP2AncientPred.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20140201001434
I don't remember about people complaining that those other Predators looked fat or dumb.
Comparing old video game (I love it) and comic books can't be compared to live action film.
Yeah but if they had went with an armor design similar to those in the EU I don't think people would have complained as much.
We can use the example of a more heavily armored Predator from another movie:
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/0c/Lost_Predator.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/323?cb=20101221073341)
The chest armor provides greater protection like the ones in AVP but its original, baddass and not too bulky looking. The Predator still looks like a Predator despite the increased amount of armor.
It would have been better for them to hire Stan Winston instead. He could reused the P2 clan on the movie instead of making a whole new one.
(https://i.imgur.com/KWBrAhN.jpg)
Quote from: Samhain13 on Apr 02, 2019, 06:57:51 PM
Yeah but if they had went with an armor design similar to those in the EU I don't think people would have complained as much.
We can use the example of a more heavily armored Predator from another movie:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/0/0c/Lost_Predator.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/323?cb=20101221073341
The chest armor provides greater protection like the ones in AVP but its original, baddass and not too bulky looking. The Predator still looks like a Predator despite the increased amount of armor.
It would have been better for them to hire Stan Winston instead. He could reused the P2 clan on the movie instead of making a whole new one.
They did go head with heavier version of P1 armour. Can't say really if a different heavy predator armour would have been better. He have nothing to compare to. I like Borg's suit, but it's more in line with The Predator medium protection, then heavy AvP suit.
I rewatched it last night and yes its aged well. The effects, creatures, sets, and even story look as good as if made today.
I will say I have become a major Scar fan again. His ability to convey thoughts, and emotion in biomask are unparalleled.
Sorry to necropost but I have been out of the loop in awhile and I need to catch up lol
Anyway, while AVP was never the best film, neither was it the worst. That dishonour goes to the sequel Requiem and that joke called The Predator.
The cgi has aged fairly well in some places of AVP, the shot of Grid standing up and flicking its acid at Celtic is a great shot. The concept of the story is not bad, though I feel it should have been off earth. The character developing is lacking and lore is broken as well but even with its flaws I do have a soft spot for this movie. Even the better executed prequels doesn't change my opinion of it, in fact I would say AVP was less lore breaking/altering than Prometheus and Covenant and it did try to
loosely follow the comics.
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 26, 2019, 12:48:19 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 26, 2019, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: P-Rock on Mar 25, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
Do Alien movies really need gore though?
I see people picking AVP-R over AVP because it was gorier. But is that really what makes it better?
Aliens are born from exploding out of peoples chests, then bite people in the head.
Predators cause carnage with their lasers and rip peoples spines out.
Yes, they do need a certain level of gore.
You don't have to show the impact of the headbiting.
Most of the first three Alien movies are a (relatively) bloodless affair, except for one or two scenes. Things got gorey with Resurrection, AVP-R and Covenant. Prometheus doesn't have a lot of bloody scenes either.
Predator is a different story though, but the Alien movies never were about showing as much gore as possible.
The first alien film had plenty of gore, it actually shocked quite a few people back in the day. The second movie showed just the same amount of gore. The alien movies just knew when it appropriate, unlike AVPR.
Requiem was over- compensating for the pg-13 rating of the first film, so they thought visibly killing children and pregnant women would be a good idea.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Dec 27, 2021, 12:45:53 PM
and that joke called The Predator.
Beware of the Kradan...
Nah, I may like The Predator but that movie hardly takes itself seriously
The film would have worked as a spoof/parody but it doesn't as a "canon" entry to the franchise, same with Resurrection.
They really softened the predator face in AvP
P1 and P2Quote
Masterpieces...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR369mEmLHoSH0vh3Kwuqlf-pBvkd0xHcXMr9zr8RueKAaG58vpTrU0BvE&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTb1k-M6YdN4y0b0yVm65hKjD1L-riEOJjnHKqFgNlAnM_9WS0jNpuH5ZWr&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjdZWQTzaaMQ-FVCvdjjLugiyOXi4lkvta2hifTSg-2nkPGABb4FTGokWE&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTW5DieXlZNPhJTZW6eSGO9e7VNjm6hRHXMhFP09raKp9njW9xbpPxZrI&s=10
AvPQuotehttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHYF3JpW3sljxk0X9rHzZdCYcUWJxFk70cwJb29FzvMYL7vzc-Cyv-a7s&s=10
High res version of this pic would be even worse as Scar had these puppy dog eyes...to make him more relatable? Gave me these vibes...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbBRn88cCEC9gYx-Q4sKWJTrctDcOSCETLYqJ_wMw19UG4pahWWouMrok&s=10
AvP RequiemQuotehttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXpOn2MZ7lMrLM0qyWaofD3ezYsNM39Bid-GIymLxlsihL-Fgms7NU05BM&s=10
Def better with the mask...face just not up to Stan Winston level, but better than AvP
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTY0sJPhlJOANvoCIAhLbYcQVNLjRZ84M3eum13GzGGrvQ1bneAmzqNjq7t&s=10
Quote from: happypred on Jan 25, 2022, 01:30:46 AM
They really softened the predator face in AvP
P1 and P2
Masterpieces...
(https://c.tenor.com/5HK73eJl6FIAAAAC/hulk-hogan-handshake.gif)
Quote from: happypred on Jan 25, 2022, 01:30:46 AM
They really softened the predator face in AvP
P1 and P2
Quote
Masterpieces...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR369mEmLHoSH0vh3Kwuqlf-pBvkd0xHcXMr9zr8RueKAaG58vpTrU0BvE&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTb1k-M6YdN4y0b0yVm65hKjD1L-riEOJjnHKqFgNlAnM_9WS0jNpuH5ZWr&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjdZWQTzaaMQ-FVCvdjjLugiyOXi4lkvta2hifTSg-2nkPGABb4FTGokWE&s=10
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTW5DieXlZNPhJTZW6eSGO9e7VNjm6hRHXMhFP09raKp9njW9xbpPxZrI&s=10
AvP
Quotehttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRHYF3JpW3sljxk0X9rHzZdCYcUWJxFk70cwJb29FzvMYL7vzc-Cyv-a7s&s=10
High res version of this pic would be even worse as Scar had these puppy dog eyes...to make him more relatable? Gave me these vibes...
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbBRn88cCEC9gYx-Q4sKWJTrctDcOSCETLYqJ_wMw19UG4pahWWouMrok&s=10
AvP Requiem
Quotehttp://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXpOn2MZ7lMrLM0qyWaofD3ezYsNM39Bid-GIymLxlsihL-Fgms7NU05BM&s=10
Def better with the mask...face just not up to Stan Winston level, but better than AvP
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTY0sJPhlJOANvoCIAhLbYcQVNLjRZ84M3eum13GzGGrvQ1bneAmzqNjq7t&s=10
I prefer the Orig face, I like the harsher look in eyebrows that say "don't f with me."
I'm currently watching AvP in local tv and the synopsis is outstanding: Antarctica. Sebastian (Raoul Bova) and other participants of scientific expedition organised by billionaire Weyland (Lance Henriksen), unknowingly awakens queen of aliens from hibernation. Team gets involved into a battle between Aliens and Predators.
No mention of Lex :laugh:
With every year this looks more and more utterly toothless.
It really has not aged well at all. The CGI especially.
The CGI isn't awful, especially for its age. Some of the Alien stuff is obvious but the moving pyramid is still pretty seamless.
I think the more subtle CGI has actually aged pretty well, and was amazing at the time. The Matrix facehuggers, less so.
The production side of it, aside from the Alien and Predator designs I have no issue with, it is the limp dullness of the story that means it eventually falls down.
It has a pretty servicable beginning showing pretty good restraint, I actually even enjoy the camp fight with the Predators as trashy fun but... it devolves more into Swiss cheese as soon as the Alien shows up and it only goes downhill the further it progresses.
The whole film's like the Grid versus Celtic fight frankly, starts great, but then the wresting moves start happening... and all the wind gets taken out of the sails.
I guess now that I look back on it, it was mostly just the CGI aliens that stood out as not as good as they could be. Sure it was 2004 but still.
I think their biggest problem is they don't move anything like Tom Woodruff does in the suit. Obviously they're meant to do things he can't but they don't recreate any poses or actions the suit performers do in the CGI models, so there's no continuity. They wouldn't stand out quite so badly if they did.
Yeah the CGI versions move more like Dinosaurs than Tom Woodruff did, in comparison even Alien Resurrection does not have that kind of discontinuity and weightlessness, I think there's a bit of Stephen Sommers approach to monsters in AVP in that way.
Speaking of dinosaurs, the only reason the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park hold up today is they put so much effort into making the movements similar. The CG itself is very dated but the way they integrate with the practical creatures makes them convincing.
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 03:43:06 AMSpeaking of dinosaurs, the only reason the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park hold up today is they put so much effort into making the movements similar. The CG itself is very dated but the way they integrate with the practical creatures makes them convincing.
That's not the only reason - there are plenty others
I disagree on AvP's CG Aliens - the animation is spot on - it's the 2004 render power & budget that didn't allow them to make them absolutely perfect in every shot. As it stands it's still one hell of a job for a movie that came out before The Cave or Underworld: Evolution, with plenty of shots that look real to this day
Like what, out of interest?
The models aren't as detailed, the texturing and rendering not as sophisticated. On gross technical standards the AvP Aliens are far ahead - but they aren't integrated into their environments half as well.
What's spot on about their animations? At what point do they move anything like their suit counterparts?
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 08:01:13 AMLike what, out of interest?
The dinosaurs have reptilian, opaque surfaces and their defects lie mostly in the lack of translucency (eyes, teeth, oral tissue) as well as the primitive muscle and skin sims. So the shots are mostly blocked in to avoid showing that (with a few 'daring' exceptions, such as the tracking shots at the end with the rex crushing the raptors in its jaws), and to that end, there always is a very specific light blocking, because back then they used light passes. To that, add that they were filmed as if the filmmakers were using real animal actors
Spoiler
Compare to the JW movies and see why the FX work fails a lot of the time there...
Later 90s movies had a HELL of a time making translucent or shiny things work. Species clearly couldn't, Dragonheart refused to (literally: they wanted a snake-like scale surface and reverted to a more opaque version because the thing kept looking plastic-y), Alien: Resurrection did a surprisingly good job most of the time (thanks to the use of different CG rigs for close-up shots), Starship Troopers was as clever as Jurassic Park (Tippett magic), Deep Rising did a better job than Species but that ain't much, and Godzilla used pearlescent creatures in difficult environments with mostly great results (with the exception of certain rushed shots of the babies, but again, blitz production)
it wasn't until the mid 00s with movies like The Cave and Underworld 2 that translucency and layers of skin became super-competent (Luma Pictures did an incredible job on both)
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 08:01:13 AMThe models aren't as detailed, the texturing and rendering not as sophisticated. On gross technical standards the AvP Aliens are far ahead - but they aren't integrated into their environments half as well.
Yep, some compositing reminds me of the Runner. With a blitz production like that, it is to be expected
Quote from: SiL on Aug 15, 2022, 08:01:13 AMWhat's spot on about their animations? At what point do they move anything like their suit counterparts?
The motion is very Runner-like, mammal and insect at the same time. When I look at test footage of Tom in the suit trying to run on all fours (with a crane system supporting him) I see a lot of similarities
The pyramid location
Grid v Celtic
The historical flashback
The Alien Queen
Okay but test footage ultimately does not matter. What's in the film's a distinct separation between the practical effects and the digital effects concerning the Aliens.
I like avp 2004, not brilliant but a nice crossover as a standalone thing which repsected both creatures of each franchise, easter eggs and we had normal predators and proper xenonomorphs and finally a queen alien with a eggsack.
Liked the pyramid set and the action scenes, lack human blood and more gore effects, but we got predators killing humans left and right, and xenomorphs capturing humans and they make a hive section, seeing so many eggs was nice.
A lot of practical effects, the queen was mostly practical and looked great in the scenes it was used in.
Lex was forgetable and most charachters were bland but I never saw the movie for humans, Im xenomorph fan so xenos all the way! In that sense it made me happy.
Most annoying thing is the bad lightning around the actors faces, why do they make a aurora of light in all darker scenes? Its annoying once one notice it.
I think the movie looks very good, even some of the CGI.
I pretty much find everything about Scar getting facehugged baffling, this has so many issues in all parts of it from begging to end.
Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 15, 2022, 09:18:23 PMI think the movie looks very good, even some of the CGI.
I pretty much find everything about Scar getting facehugged baffling, this has so many issues in all parts of it from begging to end.
Indeed, Paul W. S. Anderson's bias towards Xenos really shows in the movie. He kills two Preds in 10 mins, and has Scar facehugged, and impaled. Uh.. does he hate Yautja?
That part of the movie is one of the strongest. The Aliens aren't just fodder and are a real threat, as they would be. Scar also gets in a good number of kills before he bites the dust.
Of all the things in AvP, the actual strengths of the creatures is very balanced. The Alien took down Chopper with stealth (as they should). Celtic was actually owning that fight a lot more than he should have in close quarters, but ultimately it was his own arrogance that took him down. Scar was owning with the plasma caster (as he should have).
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 15, 2022, 11:08:11 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Aug 15, 2022, 09:18:23 PMI think the movie looks very good, even some of the CGI.
I pretty much find everything about Scar getting facehugged baffling, this has so many issues in all parts of it from begging to end.
Indeed, Paul W. S. Anderson's bias towards Xenos really shows in the movie. He kills two Preds in 10 mins, and has Scar facehugged, and impaled. Uh.. does he hate Yautja?
Because hunting Aliens supposed to be a challenge not shooting fish in a barrel
All you Predator fans sure got dignified when Requiem came out tho
(https://j.gifs.com/mOkqKA@facebook.gif)
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 10:33:43 AMAll you Predator fans sure got dignified when Requiem came out tho
https://j.gifs.com/mOkqKA@facebook.gif
"HUR HUR THIS SCENE GONNA PISS OFF ALIEN FANS LMAO"
-Colin & Greg Strause, AvPR commentary
(surprisingly similar to Terminator 3 commentary)
Wait, really ? I need to listen to that !
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 11:01:58 AMWait, really ? I need to listen to that !
if you wanna cringe 2x watching the movie, yeah
that commentary likely derived from Colin's experience HERE (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=257) in 07
AvPR is the way it is because Colin Strause is a proto-Trevorrow, in essence
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2022, 10:28:55 AMOf all the things in AvP, the actual strengths of the creatures is very balanced. The Alien took down Chopper with stealth (as they should). Celtic was actually owning that fight a lot more than he should have in close quarters, but ultimately it was his own arrogance that took him down. Scar was owning with the plasma caster (as he should have).
It's why I'm happy enough to list it as a decent enough movie. Getting the species right goes a long way, as it's the whole point of the production in the first place. Also, once an Alien nest expands in size it's very hard to control and detonation is pretty much essential. AvP went with that ending and I can respect that. I don't think Scar was going to wipe all of those Aliens out on his own otherwise.
Takes a lot more than respecting the creatures to make something worth watching in my opinion.
But that's nice to have, especially in a movie called Creature vs Another Creature
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 02:58:54 PMCreature vs Another Creature
Not seen that yet. Any good? :laugh:
It's better than its sequel
Quote from: Stitch on Aug 17, 2022, 05:30:27 PMNot seen that yet. Any good? :laugh:
Beautiful movie!
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Alienvshunter.jpg)
I remember seeing that one on the shelves
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 07:15:40 PMI remember seeing that one on the shelves
I have seen it lmfao
Quote from: Omegamorph on Aug 17, 2022, 08:10:27 PMQuote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 07:15:40 PMI remember seeing that one on the shelves
I have seen it lmfao
I have also seen it. Once. That was enough.
You poor bastards. Seeing it must be like torture xD
Quote from: Stitch on Aug 17, 2022, 08:37:36 PMI have also seen it. Once. That was enough.
It's an Asylum film. They're like that on purpose
I'm just glad I didn't give them money for it.
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 10:33:43 AMQuote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 15, 2022, 11:08:11 PMQuote from: Wweyland on Aug 15, 2022, 09:18:23 PMI think the movie looks very good, even some of the CGI.
I pretty much find everything about Scar getting facehugged baffling, this has so many issues in all parts of it from begging to end.
Indeed, Paul W. S. Anderson's bias towards Xenos really shows in the movie. He kills two Preds in 10 mins, and has Scar facehugged, and impaled. Uh.. does he hate Yautja?
Because hunting Aliens supposed to be a challenge not shooting fish in a barrel
All you Predator fans sure got dignified when Requiem came out tho
https://j.gifs.com/mOkqKA@facebook.gif
Actually in the Aliens vs Predator books, Prey, the Preds call Xenomorph's Soft Meat and they call Humans Hard Meat and the harder hunt. The Xenos seen like huntinf boar, and lions.
It's the opposite. Aliens are hard meat, humans are soft meat. Because Aliens are bony and humans are fleshy. It's not related to difficulty.
Predators prefer hard meat...
:o
Broken Tusk remarks that Aliens are only good for training newbies on. They're tough and fierce but they're not smart and they don't have weapons.
What I think every bit of media has completely missed is that what would make the Alien an exciting challenge for the Predator is that the Alien is a better hunter. Like sure the Predator can just shoot it -- but the Alien is doing as good, if not better, a job of hunting it as it's doing of hunting the Alien.
That's the real challenge. Predators aren't here for a massacre, they're here to hunt.
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 18, 2022, 12:38:09 AMActually in the Aliens vs Predator books, Prey, the Preds call Xenomorph's Soft Meat and they call Humans Hard Meat and the harder hunt. The Xenos seen like huntinf boar, and lions.
Humans are more dangerous than Xenos ? Come on now
A human with a pulse rifle who knows where the Predator is would be more dangerous to a Predator on account of the whole "long range explosive" thing.
But an Alien is better at sneaking up on a Predator undetected.
Different challenges.
It's part of the reason I'd really like to see a production that just follows one of each creature. I'd like to see more of the Aliens actually posing a challenge to the Predators and limiting the number of participants could really up the tension IMHO.
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 17, 2022, 02:58:54 PMBut that's nice to have, especially in a movie called Creature vs Another Creature
Predator fans can use the young unblooded angle as well to explain the defeats they suffer.
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 18, 2022, 05:08:50 AMQuote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 18, 2022, 12:38:09 AMActually in the Aliens vs Predator books, Prey, the Preds call Xenomorph's Soft Meat and they call Humans Hard Meat and the harder hunt. The Xenos seen like huntinf boar, and lions.
Humans are more dangerous than Xenos ? Come on now
Xenos are deadly, but not as intelligent as humans. The Preds who fell to Xenos in AVP were unprovrn teens, while Wolf kicked Xeno A$$.
Easy to kick ass when your opponents don't fight back.
Or when they forget to use their claws and sharp tails
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 19, 2022, 05:58:47 PMXenos are deadly, but not as intelligent as humans
not really no
they're just dumbed down in AvPR (most of the time)
Imagine using AVP Requiem as evidence of anything other than what not to do.
Quote from: Omegamorph on Aug 19, 2022, 07:24:45 PMQuote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 19, 2022, 05:58:47 PMXenos are deadly, but not as intelligent as humans
not really no
they're just dumbed down in AvPR (most of the time)
Well lets examine:
Alien
Chappy gets stuck in piping, and then ejected out airlock because rather than attack Ripley loke Paker or people in AVP films, it takes its good time using that teeth tongue.
Aliens
Xenos keep running down corridor and getting blown away by sentry guns (Director's Cut) till their ranks are thinned.
Alien3
The Runner Alien falls for trap (Assembly Cut) and never thinks to use the acid spit it used om the guy in tunnel and that it melted metal with?
Alien Covenant
First Xeno is stupid enough to jump into claw of crane, Second Xeno prusues prey in a hangar that has been opened to space? What is it with Xenos being carless near airlocks?
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Aug 19, 2022, 10:42:04 PMAlien
Chappy gets stuck in piping, and then ejected out airlock because rather than attack Ripley loke Paker or people in AVP films, it takes its good time using that teeth tongue.
It wasn't stuck, it was trying to escape the poisonous gas it was being attacked with.
It takes about the same time to open its mouth as it does with Brett and Parker -- Ripley hits the button in time.
And was meant to be dying.
QuoteAliens
Xenos keep running down corridor and getting blown away by sentry guns (Director's Cut) till their ranks are thinned.
Their ranks aren't thinned, as we can see when Ripley and Hicks escape. The Aliens aren't running at the guns, they're actually seen trying to cross the corridor. The guns run dry without killing many Aliens at all.
QuoteAlien3
The Runner Alien falls for trap (Assembly Cut) and never thinks to use the acid spit it used om the guy in tunnel and that it melted metal with?
The door is six feet thick.
QuoteSecond Xeno prusues prey in a hangar that has been opened to space? What is it with Xenos being carless near airlocks?
They open the hangar after it enters. How are they supposed to know what an air lock is, exactly?
Arguably on par with or above human intelligence in Resurrection, judging by how quickly they learn.
I don't know any 24 hour old humans who are anywhere near as smart as an Alien.
I think it's more accurate to say they have a very different kind of intelligence and that comparing them is kind of dumb.
Adult humans are as smart as they are because we're born super immature and spend years being taught by others who spent years being taught by others, etc. etc.
An Alien not knowing what an airlock is, or that a crane is a crane and not a giant metal monster, does not make the Alien dumb. It won't calculate any math equations any time soon, but it will find the best, fastest way to sneak up behind you undetected, and will do so without any training hours after being born.
Indeed and to me it was also clear in alien covenant its not truly xenomorphs we are dealing with both Davids version which might be a prototype or a different breed completely depending on how one intercept the movie and the novel, and dont come here with: novel dont count etc when the novel seem to be taken as canon for alien and aliens in the streams from avpgalaxy. Back to point: covenants proto xenomorphs was very different in their design and more flesh and no biomechanical and from what they did they were SUPER aggressive towards anything and it identified the crane as an enemy to attack.
Which our normal xenomorphs wouldnt as they like to watch and learn before striking and they can tell machine apart from living beings.
So I wouldnt take covenants aliens as evidence of xenomorphs being dumb and defencless.
The rest I agree with Sil on with his points.
In alien big chap showed curiousity, thinking and planning, it was only when it was hibernating onboard the ferry when it was caught off guard with the gas and kinda tight spot so getting out will take a second or two and Ridley scott wanted it to be slow due to in his mind: xenomorphs only live a day before dying.
Aliens, the xenos used swarm tactic on the sentry guns and didnt know at first what they can do, we never see them die on mass or running straight at the sentries but jumping around and trying to get away from its fire, the sentries are likely targeting anything that moves: so any dead xenos limbs and parts that is still moving after they were killed: are still being targeted. In their second attack they change tactics and learn. They didnt lose many as we see the motion tracker showing still 80+ xenomorphs coming for them in the end battle.
Plus they know how electricity work, and to take out their drop ship first and they were smart enough to cut communication and taking over the colony.
rather impressive inteligence on them.
IF I count alien resurrection novel we see they are very smart, not human level but primate level and that is scary.
What AVPR did was to dumb them down to below 2 digit and make them defenceless and also weaker just for making the plot work with the predator to be super good and better, dumbing them down on purpose, which is the difference here.
5,56 and pistol ammo can now kill xenos when we know from aliens and weyland report, anchorpoint essays and other sources you need armour pericing to be able to properly effectively kill them, in aliens just one of them took a lot of pulse rifle ammo or sentry gun fire before dying.
Wolf holds two aliens in their throats with his hands, while the two xenos have their arms and legs free and tail and could stand up from the height wolf lifted them but director thought: nah they cant do anything lol. Like they forgot they have arms, legs and a tail and can still reach the floor with their legs if they wanted....
Amongst other dumbing them down when they could easily have killed wolf if they were anything like a normal xeno or one from avp 2004 movie.
Rewatched the unrated cut and the movie hasn't aged that well for me scriptwise -- the fundamental problem is it's too short to build the big momentum. Otherwise, it's a great comic book film with incredible visuals for its time & budget. The creature effects are nothing short of spectacular, the real carriers of the film alongside the beautiful practical sets. It's earnest in its intentions and the homages (back when they were a 'new' thing) are neat to seek out -- I find a new one every time!
I've watched it maybe three or four times since the original 2004 release.
It honestly is a movie that just gets worse each time I see it.
I don't see that the effects are all that great. They're fine. I think the creatures look awful from a design perspective. The Predator's just don't hold up well at all. There are so many clumsy and awkward shots of them. The "style" choice of using slow motion looks bad... and the cinematography, while it is "well lit" and has some dramatic shots... The whole movie has a very monochromatic color grade. Say what you will, but when Freddy vs Jason pitted those characters against each other it took advantage of the dueling color palettes. Fire for Freddy, Water for Jason. Visual flare. Color. Something.
As to the story/plot... Ya know, this is one of those things where Paul did a great job on stretching his budget, but the problem is I think he put budget into things he could have cut to focus on the star attraction. It becomes a double-edged sword.
Also, regarding the story/plot, the movie does a terrible job with exposition. It is so on the nose and direct to the audience. Let me read the wall and tell you everything. Completely devoid of any sense of mystery. It could have been handled better, and cheaper, by having Sebastian making guesses based on the set decoration without the expensive and excessive CGI flashbacks... and that money could have been put into the actual AVP-ing that movie is grimly lacking after Celtic and Grid face off.
I absolutely hated it upon release. However I have softened to the film over time, it's a fun B grade adventure flick . I like the effects mostly aside from the unmasked scar, also the Resurrection design is a bummer.
But I think it is entertaining for my money.
AvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMAvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.
Hear, hear !
Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMI absolutely hated it upon release. However I have softened to the film over time, it's a fun B grade adventure flick
See i've heard that take before, and will I see where it is coming from... It's just so damn ho-hum. All of the build up to getting to the pyramid just feels so... paint by numbers.. and as far as I'm concerned for a really good adventure movie you need a charismatic leading man/woman. That definitely isn't Lexx. Sebastian might have been able to pull it off with his Italian accent and gruff look, but he doesn't really get the meat to become "that guy." It could have been Colin Salmon, but, again, he gets little to do after the first act.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Oct 09, 2022, 10:10:01 PMAvPR provides no fun or entertainment value for me though. It's the worst of both series IMO.
I was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing. We both related to the Pizza Man's plight with the girl, though. Teenage boys, ya know?
Just rewatched. The older it gets the worse it is for me. The practical effects are cool. Terrible characters and plot however. I like the idea of the pyramids and predators hunting but like it was said before in this forum - mostly comic book style. Would much rather see an avp film capture the traditional alien feel when the alien is on screen and original predator when the predator is on screen.
Terrible movie overall, then and now.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Oct 09, 2022, 11:06:52 PMI was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing.
I can relate to this. I worked at the cinema when the film came out. I was so hyped for it coming up to release and everyone knew it. All of my buddies who worked there and I went to see it on release. I just apologized as we came out.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2022, 10:50:19 AMQuote from: OpenMaw on Oct 09, 2022, 11:06:52 PMI was embarrassed. I took my older brother and my sisters then boyfriend. We walked out... All my sisters B/F could say at the time was "'You're too stupid to talk' was the best line." My brother didn't say a damn thing.
I can relate to this. I worked at the cinema when the film came out. I was so hyped for it coming up to release and everyone knew it. All of my buddies who worked there and I went to see it on release. I just apologized as we came out.
Lol. I felt embarrassed after Avp, but it had a sort of "so bad it's good" thing going on, so everyone had a good time.
Then Prometheus came out, and by all accounts it looked like a return to form and I was hyped. But man, that was
hugely embarrassing walking out of the theater on that one... I didn't wanna repeat that, so when Covenant came out I purposely saw it alone. Covenant was probably the best out of the new shitty-Alien era, though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Oct 17, 2022, 10:50:19 AMI can relate to this. I worked at the cinema when the film came out. I was so hyped for it coming up to release and everyone knew it. All of my buddies who worked there and I went to see it on release. I just apologized as we came out.
That's mortifying, jesus!
I don't think any fan is going to say they were completely satisfied or it's the film they wanted.
It certainly better than it sequel and some have liked it better than the prequels, at least the first prequel. It doesn't help that Scott made the same mistakes that both AVPS did, screwing with the lore and the lifecycle.
AVP=fast alien lifecycle.
Alien covenent - Ultra fast lifecycle.
AVPR - added a new reproduction method that would render previous one obsolete.
Prometheus/Alien Covenent added a biological weapon that would render Alien one obsolete. Also huggers can implant instantly without need of rendering someone comatose, thus making previous iterations obsolete.
No! Prefer unrated.
Not a fan of this film at all, or usually this channel, but I find this absolutely fascinating.
Why does it take 5 f**king minutes to get to the point Jesus Christ I hate people trying to game the revenue system.
You gotta get those intros in! What's the verdict, was it better? I'm still not able to really watch his videos - after the whole thing here with Xenopedia.
It's just different. Some marginally better framing that shows more details that are nice but not crucial in some shots.
Oh god I don't need flashbacks to that absolutely pointless drama lol
Gave me a major itch to rewatch the movie
I must say AVP feels more Gigeresque than AVPR, it does a fair job of adding the terror of the facehugger and chestburster back into the Xenoverse.
Quote from: City Hunter Yautja on Jun 19, 2023, 07:22:47 PMI must say AVP feels (...) Gigeresque
I must say I disagree.
And yet the full quote is pretty fine. It's a low bar to clear.
cameron is on record saying he thinks avp is the 3rd best movie in the alien franchise.
i wonder if he feels the same today.
Quote from: oduodu on Jun 25, 2023, 08:32:39 AMcameron is on record saying he thinks avp is the 3rd best movie in the alien franchise.
i wonder if he feels the same today.
He also said T Genisys was 'the real T3' so I wouldnt put too much stock into that.
He has also praised Alien 3 in the past but will likely always have a biased hate towards it for what it did to his characters.
Visually, atmospherically, the 2004 classic is a split sword. This means that the visual nature, of the movie lends to either perception of its quality. Is the movie good, is it bad?
In my opinion, the movie is brilliant, for a subtext of philosophy that the movie possesses due to the nature of the casting.
Sanaa Lathan, of course, is like a Denzel Washington awareness, or like a Robert Redford awareness; this can intimidate the viewer, depending of course on the viewer's sociology background and personality matrix, and so, there's that framework, in turn supporting the ideology of the split sword
Dunno about intimidating - just not terribly interesting.
https://youtu.be/3XM2M2-6aVI?si=aGexMzFpOBuNKZKR
"Has AvP (2004) aged all that well?"
To answer this question I propose a practical; take a shit in a jar. Leave it on a shelf for 20 years. Has it became a fine vintage wine? 😂
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Nov 04, 2023, 01:22:35 AM"Has AvP (2004) aged all that well?"
To answer this question I propose a practical; take a shit in a jar. Leave it on a shelf for 20 years. Has it became a fine vintage wine? 😂
I also propose a practical. For 20 years, all the shelves and the shop have been filled with massive jars of bigger shit. It has not become fine wine, but it does not look so bad anymore.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 05, 2023, 11:49:52 AMQuote from: Acid_Reign161 on Nov 04, 2023, 01:22:35 AM"Has AvP (2004) aged all that well?"
To answer this question I propose a practical; take a shit in a jar. Leave it on a shelf for 20 years. Has it became a fine vintage wine? 😂
I also propose a practical. For 20 years, all the shelves and the shop have been filled with massive jars of bigger shit. It has not become fine wine, but it does not look so bad anymore.
...but ultimately, the contents are still shit.. 💩
It is still one of the most awful of jars.
AvP is a masterpiece that somehow didn't get picked up by the masses, but is still one of the greatest works of art.
It is still the second or third worst film in either franchise, rivalling The Predator, eclipsed by Requiem.
Paul W.S "deglove" Anderson...
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 05, 2023, 12:20:04 PMthe most awful of jars.
(https://i.imgur.com/2vFHQOU.jpg)
Quote from: SiL on Nov 05, 2023, 12:50:36 PMAvP is a masterpiece that somehow didn't get picked up by the masses, but is still one of the greatest works of art.
I... want to believe you're serious. I really do. Truly.
But knowing the hate boner this forum has for the movie, I... I don't want to get my hopes up.
I mean I don't at all think it's a masterpiece but it has a very special place in my heart.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 04:29:18 AMI mean I don't at all think it's a masterpiece but it has a very special place in my heart.
How old were you when you first saw it?
13. I was precisely the right target audience for it.
I never thought it was a good as the originals, but I always liked it.
AvPR must have been a real kick to the balls for you then.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 09:54:12 AMAvPR must have been a real kick to the balls for you then.
I was 16 when that came out so right at the maturity level the filmmakers were aiming at.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 10:41:13 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 09:54:12 AMAvPR must have been a real kick to the balls for you then.
I was 16 when that came out so right at the maturity level the filmmakers were aiming at.
I'm guessing Colin Strause didn't expect someone from his target audience to be so hostile towards him.
You'd think he would considering he was mentally the same age.
Was truly bizarre him trying to use me not liking Aliens to dismiss me.
Always does my f**king head in when I'm reminded that I'm older than SiL
Considerably older I imagine.
Quote from: SM on Nov 07, 2023, 11:30:34 AMYou'd think he would considering he was mentally the same age.
He seemed like a real soda-drinker here...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg70873#msg70873
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 11:46:21 AMConsiderably older I imagine.
Nah only slightly, but it always comes up around the AvP release and 13 vs 15 felt like the hugest difference when one was 13 or 15.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 12:04:43 PMQuote from: SM on Nov 07, 2023, 11:30:34 AMYou'd think he would considering he was mentally the same age.
He seemed like a real soda-drinker here...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg70873#msg70873
Oh Jesus my reply.
The audacity.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 12:06:28 PMNah only slightly, but it always comes up around the AvP release and 13 vs 15 felt like the hugest difference when one was 13 or 15.
I'm surprised it's such a small difference.
I'm not sure if that makes me feel mature and competent or prematurely haggard and crusty.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 12:13:50 PMI'm not sure if that makes me feel mature and competent or prematurely haggard and crusty.
Intended as the former.
TY
I generally tend to identify with the latter. Minus the premature.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 12:08:32 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 12:04:43 PMQuote from: SM on Nov 07, 2023, 11:30:34 AMYou'd think he would considering he was mentally the same age.
He seemed like a real soda-drinker here...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg70873#msg70873
Oh Jesus my reply.
The audacity.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg71139#msg71139
"I think this film is going to be enjoyable. I'm going to sit my ass down in the cinema, look at the screen, and be solidly occupied for 100 or whatever minutes."
Is that what happened?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 12:28:03 PMQuote from: SiL on Nov 07, 2023, 12:08:32 PMQuote from: Local Trouble on Nov 07, 2023, 12:04:43 PMQuote from: SM on Nov 07, 2023, 11:30:34 AMYou'd think he would considering he was mentally the same age.
He seemed like a real soda-drinker here...
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg70873#msg70873
Oh Jesus my reply.
The audacity.
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=4450.msg71139#msg71139
"I think this film is going to be enjoyable. I'm going to sit my ass down in the cinema, look at the screen, and be solidly occupied for 100 or whatever minutes."
Is that what happened?
No.
God, no.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 11:34:06 AMAlways does my f**king head in when I'm reminded that I'm older than SiL
Which means both of you might be younger than me. That feels a little weird.
Quote from: Stitch on Nov 07, 2023, 12:45:34 PMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 11:34:06 AMAlways does my f**king head in when I'm reminded that I'm older than SiL
Which means both of you might be younger than me. That feels a little weird.
Well I just feel like the Space Jockey now 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thirty nine?
Ah, I remember being thirty nine.
Wait no I don't.
I sometimes can't remember how old I am now.
Quote from: SM on Nov 09, 2023, 12:09:38 AMThirty nine?
Ah, I remember being thirty nine.
Wait no I don't.
Too far past or not yet reached?
The first one.
The prequels have probably helped the first AVP seem better too since a lot of lore was changed and broken far worse than what AVP did. Hell, Covenant even beat AVP on fastest life-cycle :laugh:
I've always been a little biased towards the first AVP film cause I'll always remember it coming out when I was around 9 years old and it was, and still is, the most excited I've ever been for a film's release. Just seeing my two favorite film creatures on the same screen together was the most amazing thing in the world to me. I have a lot of childhood nostalgia for it.
It's not the best possible movie we could have gotten by any means, but I've always thought it was pretty cool and fun for what it is. Has some great moments and ideas. Especially compared to some of the abysmal other films that came after (cough cough AVPR cough cough The Predator).
The only thing I think hasn't really aged well would be some of the CG, and definitely all the terrible digital blood added in post for the "unrated" edition.
Quote from: Cosmic Incubation on Dec 20, 2023, 04:57:18 PMI've always been a little biased towards the first AVP film cause I'll always remember it coming out when I was around 9 years old and it was, and still is, the most excited I've ever been for a film's release. Just seeing my two favorite film creatures on the same screen together was the most amazing thing in the world to me. I have a lot of childhood nostalgia for it.
It's not the best possible movie we could have gotten by any means, but I've always thought it was pretty cool and fun for what it is. Has some great moments and ideas. Especially compared to some of the abysmal other films that came after (cough cough AVPR cough cough The Predator).
The only thing I think hasn't really aged well would be some of the CG, and definitely all the terrible digital blood added in post for the "unrated" edition.
True enough, sometimes the first film in a franchise you see tends have a special spot. AVP wasn't too bad, it had a good concept and ideas, it just didn't execute them well. Setting it on earth did not help either.
It wasn't my first, but it was the first that I got to experience in the theater which was something special for sure.
I'll definitely agree, especially now in retrospect, that a lot could have definitely been executed better. But as a kid I thought it was just the most amazing thing I'd ever seen lmao.
The earth and modern day setting is definitely a detriment. Which sucks cause it could have easily been remedied by having it still be in the future and just on another planet.
I think I have heard some say it was budget issues why it could not be set off world, atleast that was the excuse with the second movie. "space was too expensive" apparently.
It wouldn't take much to make outdoor and indoor environments look like its another planet. Power of filmmaking, simple smoke and mirrors to make illusions. Its already been done plenty in the alien franchise. The cryotubes in Aliens was done by using a mirror to make it look like there was more tubes.
Davis the producer wanted it set on Earth.
Watched it last week for the first time in a while and the thing that really stood out to me was how bad the sound design was. Just cheap, cartoonish sounds constantly repeating.
Ah ok.
Yeah and they had to use ADR, that is why the characters speech can seem oddly loud or not quite fitting.
Stacks of movies use ADR and it's not oddly loud or not quite fitting.
AvP's poor ADR is just part of the bad sound work.
It's a pity because the action scenes kind of rock along in their comic book way, but the cartoonish squelchy crunches and inexplicable knife sharpening Alien tongues just aggressively prevent me from being able to really get into it.
This film still remains my personal biggest cinematic disappointment of all time. I was so let down by it at the time and my opinion hasn't changed.
I think enough has been said about the Predators in this film over the years but needless to say they are very very poor.
I also feel Anderson should shoulder a lot of blame for the Alien's behaviour evolving from the stealth and cunning of the earlier films to the 'screeching cat that has had a bucket of cold water thrown over it' depictions of the later ones.
Agreed with the sound design too. Never understood the knife-clinking when the xeno jaw shoots out in this film. Bizarre.
Quote from: SM on Dec 20, 2023, 11:15:21 PMStacks of movies use ADR and it's not oddly loud or not quite fitting.
Some work better than others, I personally found it was more noticeble in AVP.
That's just bad ADR; good ADR is noticeable.
There is just plenty of scenes where I can tell its ADR, the sound and dialogue just isn't quite right. Maybe its just me.
In AvP, yes.
But you said that it was bad because they used ADR. My point is that it's bad because it's badly done ADR, not just that it simply is ADR.
Oh I meant that the ADR was done bad, sorry I should been bit more clear. You mentioned a lot of sound issues and I said they used ADR because there was too much noise (I think) and it wasn't well done. ADR has to be used in films from time to time, especially when set and background noise is too much.
I think it still holds up. I love the concept, and I like that Weyland was more selfless than I thought he'd be. It isn't high art, but it is a fun movie to watch.
I still find it weird just how many similarities there are between AvP and Prometheus
Quote from: Stitch on Jan 27, 2024, 08:50:16 PMI still find it weird just how many similarities there are between AvP and Prometheus
^This! I've always found the similarities fascinating. I remember writing an article about it at the time.
Quote from: Acid for Blood on Jan 27, 2024, 10:29:39 PMQuote from: Stitch on Jan 27, 2024, 08:50:16 PMI still find it weird just how many similarities there are between AvP and Prometheus
^This! I've always found the similarities fascinating. I remember writing an article about it at the time.
do you have a link to your article?
After a rewatch tonight... it honestly did nothing for me at all. 😅
And I can't believe I'm actually about to say this (I may retract this opinion again after tomorrow's movie night) but I'm actually starting to think I prefer AVP2:R of the two of them. :o (and I have always ranked that second worst only to 'The Predator') But AvP has changed in my view from "it's ok for what it is" to "yawn". 😅
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jan 28, 2024, 01:56:03 AMAnd I can't believe I'm actually about to say this (I may retract this opinion again after tomorrow's movie night) but I'm actually starting to think I prefer AVP2:R of the two of them.
Welcome to the (literally visually) dark side.
I showed this to the 6 year old lol. He liked it. I realized that I like it even less. It's okay for a bit, but falls apart so hard. 4/10.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 27, 2024, 11:36:39 PMdo you have a link to your article?
No. Sadly the website isn't around anymore. It would be fun to have another crack at it though.
It was never that good even when I saw it at 10 years old was disapointed, now its worse, no more of the little I felt in some parts young.
Yeah this thing only becomes infinitely more dull with age.
It's slightly better than before, a novelty I'd say.
While it didn't do a great job of it, least I can see attempts of building characters, trying to reel in the audience in engaging with the hostile environment of Antarctica and the temple, making Aliens not simple cannon fodder, and an honest attempt of telling a cohesive AVP story. Not the best, but not the worst when AVPR is right there and unlike AVP, I can barely see it.
Time had made me realize that I do love Charles Weyland's superior characterization here than in Prometheus. Peter Weyland is a chump that pees himself at the thought of passing away. Charles wanted to leave some kind of positive legacy behind, listens to Lex's story about her father dying, and reminds her that her drinking champagne with her father was more important than him dying, AND willing to fight a Predator in order to buy Lex and Sebastian time to get away. It even adds to the tragedy of the overall lore of Weyland Yutani that despite the founder being a brave and sympathetic man, The Company becomes anything but that, willing to steal, cheat, lie, and sacrifice anything for the bottom line.
Aliens doesn't have the biomechanical look so it still the worst design.
People diss on the Predator designs and while I agree the face is garbage due to ADI, I don't hate on the armor or their muscular build. Just adds more to the overall Predator lore of various Predator designs. Predator Hunting Grounds even vindicates this when you see all the cool body types that the various Predator characters have in the game.
Not complete trash, if the sequel was actually an huge improvement and perhaps a following to an actual future story, least AVP would have been a decent start up for the my theoretical AVP film trilogy. Shame that this and AVPR will be the only AVP films we are going to get in our lifetime.
6/10
Oh there are positives. They just get overshadowed by P.W. Andersonisms, plus crappy pacing, too convenient everything, and Sanaa Lathan just being so bland.
Weyland was great. The bulky predators seem fine. Different builds. The fight scene with Grid and Celtic was 90% terrible. The dialog is pretty bad.
Hmm, can't say I agree on the Weyland thing. I love Lance as much as anyone and he does well with what little he is given to work with here, but Guy Pearce just oozes class in that TED talk. Ambition, absolute confidence, determination, ruthlessness - pretty much epitomising everything Weyland Yutani would later stand for in just a few minutes of material. It's such a shame we never got more of the younger Peter Weyland in his prime.
AVP remains my greatest cinematic disappointment of all time. Watch Aliens, then Predator, then watch this... Enough said.
I'm sorry to say im also in the ADI bashing club. They are masters of their craft in monster making of course and their work in other movies speaks for itself. But for Alien and Predator specifically, i think they have been a major let down with both creatures, and that is another element that spoils AVP for me.
Yes. I will continue to bash ADI. Its not "bashing" when you're calling out unnecessary changes and generic design choices. I haven't looked too deep, and it might just be me, but the heads on the aliens look off somehow to me. Did they shorten them and change the curvature? I've noticed it in other media and didn't like it, but now it seems it odd in the film.
That being said, there are some great moments. My favorite is when the first alien is shrouded in the dark and you get the slow reveal as the "namenotimportant" fellow realizes something terrible is in the tunnel.
The AvP heads are the same design as the Resurrection heads with the flattened less phallic underside at the back.
ADI screwed up, them taking over was one of the worse things that happended to the series.
As a kid I didn't pay much attention to how the creatures looked different from the og movies, now shit just bothers me.
The og creatures looked better, just compare JH face to Scar, didn't age well at all.
"improvements"
The Aliens especially suffered, Predators generally look fine to quite good until the mask comes away, then they look goofy; the Aliens in AVP and AVPR are completely f**ked aside from the Queen redesign.
They largely nail the ancillary stuff, the Predtech and ornamentation, the Facehugger and Eggs look pretty class, but the main creature feature always turns up a disaster. You can maybe make an argument for it making sense in Resurrection but not outside it.
I think for me, the biggest crime is the face huggers in AvP that look like they bought a Kenner Alien Resurrection toy, strapped it (loosely) to someone's head, poured a whole jar of KY jelly over it, and were like "that'll do".
Yeah they were terrible. Design was the same other than colouring but the 'performance' was appalling.
Worst facehugging put to screen.
The 'breathing flap' things were just hanging off. 🫤
I never noticed the flaps.
Imagine someone trying to do a Monet or Picasso recreation and deciding to "improve" it.
Then again you can argue why does it have to be a direct copy? I can see that to a point, but if I'm making a movie and the tiger is the creature, do I suddenly start changing the skull structure and other anatomy in the sequel? I can definitely get behind "some" change, but this his been pretty off the rails difference since Aliens. Those are at least great designs in their own right.
I don't recall the in-universe explanation for the warriors in Aliens. Was it maturity?
For fan theory, maybe there are other traits lingering from other infestations in the genetic history of the queen that laid the eggs. Or maybe there were multiple queens from different hosts and one type infected Kane and another type infected Russ. Or there is just some small measure of natural variation.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 31, 2024, 01:21:33 PMI don't recall the in-universe explanation for the warriors in Aliens. Was it maturity?
I think it was told that Cameron said the ridged heads were result of that.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 30, 2024, 03:55:24 AMWeyland was great. The bulky predators seem fine. Different builds. The fight scene with Grid and Celtic was 90% terrible. The dialog is pretty bad.
The Feral vs Bear fight scene made me re-contextualize the fight scene of Celtic vs Grid. How Predators are just
that strong in melee combat but at the same time how Aliens are actually
that formidable vs a Predator in melee combat. I can't help but recall the first AVP novel how Dachande notes that xenomorphs are highly cunning and can turn the tables with a flick of a claw if a Predator doesn't think ahead and we see how that happens with Grid using it's acid blood to distract Celtic while it sets up an ambush from behind. Countered by a net gun sure, but it came up with all of that during in the fight shows they are very quick on their taloned feet about things.
The shooting of the scene is perhaps is what makes the Grid vs Celtic fight look bad but how it all went down doesn't look awful to me anymore. It's a shame that AVPR throws it out the window by just ignoring how deadly acid blood is, xenomorph cunning, and how the Predator has to constantly be on its toes in a fight.
Wow...yeah actually this detail just highlights another reason why it slightly aged better and how AVPR is just even more stinky poo poo.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 31, 2024, 01:21:33 PMI never noticed the flaps.
Imagine someone trying to do a Monet or Picasso recreation and deciding to "improve" it.
Then again you can argue why does it have to be a direct copy? I can see that to a point, but if I'm making a movie and the tiger is the creature, do I suddenly start changing the skull structure and other anatomy in the sequel? I can definitely get behind "some" change, but this his been pretty off the rails difference since Aliens. Those are at least great designs in their own right.
I don't recall the in-universe explanation for the warriors in Aliens. Was it maturity?
For fan theory, maybe there are other traits lingering from other infestations in the genetic history of the queen that laid the eggs. Or maybe there were multiple queens from different hosts and one type infected Kane and another type infected Russ. Or there is just some small measure of natural variation.
ADI made tweaks to Resurrection in line with JPJs request. I think they may have re-used the design on AvP to save money.
On Aliens again it was a design choice. Cameron liked it better sans cowl. He didn't give the in-universe reason much thought. "Mutation or new generation" is what he went with at the time. He later agreed with a fan who said it might be due to age.
Quote from: razeak on Jan 30, 2024, 03:58:07 PMYes. I will continue to bash ADI. Its not "bashing" when you're calling out unnecessary changes and generic design choices. I haven't looked too deep, and it might just be me, but the heads on the aliens look off somehow to me. Did they shorten them and change the curvature? I've noticed it in other media and didn't like it, but now it seems it odd in the film.
ADI wasn't in charge though, it is the higher ups who dictate on what they want the creatures to look like. In this case, I think they reused A:R stuff due to budget limitations or something.
Quote from: Acid_Reign161 on Jan 31, 2024, 08:22:15 AMI think for me, the biggest crime is the face huggers in AvP that look like they bought a Kenner Alien Resurrection toy, strapped it (loosely) to someone's head, poured a whole jar of KY jelly over it, and were like "that'll do".
Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2024, 09:31:19 AMYeah they were terrible. Design was the same other than colouring but the 'performance' was appalling.
Quote from: SM on Jan 31, 2024, 09:50:59 AMThe 'breathing flap' things were just hanging off. 🫤
In fairness, those people who were facehugged were in vertical positions, So gravity kind of does its thing to those flaps. In previous films, the victims were on the floor on their back.
In the shot where the maiden gets hugged, the flaps are leaning down like normal (I think)
As for the loosely gripped thing. I think that is true from what I remember but even the facehugger on Kane had gaps where the legs were not touching the skull. The legs being jointed means they would not have complete contact on the host.
It's not about gaps so much as it doesn't look like they're holding on at all. There's nothing selling the idea that these things have a tight grip on people's heads.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 31, 2024, 10:02:32 PMADI wasn't in charge though, it is the higher ups who dictate on what they want the creatures to look like. In this case, I think they reused A:R stuff due to budget limitations or something.
I dont fully buy that to be honest. I get the directors might dictate some of the bigger changes like the lack of biomechanics and such like, but I cant believe the likes of JPJ would purposefully want the Alien's entire jaw and teeth be redesigned to be... less good shall we say. Tom Woodruff even says in the Res doc that it was their idea to redesign the tail for example because they believed it would help the Alien propel itself better underwater.
In AVPR they at least changed the neck from mangled mutant to something more resembling biomechanical, but the heads still looked poor.
The director gives them an idea or they take inspiration from the script, they draw up concepts and present them and the director chooses the ones he likes. JPJ wanted more of a cockroach vibe. ADI provided.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 31, 2024, 10:52:17 PMIt's not about gaps so much as it doesn't look like they're holding on at all. There's nothing selling the idea that these things have a tight grip on people's heads.
The way to remove facehuggers now is to sneeze.
The hosts being semi-conscious while being hugged didn't really fit either.
Yeah the mouths and tails are approved by the director before the final suits are made. It's not like ADI snuck a fan on the tail and JPJ just threw his hands up on set exclaiming "Sacre bleu, mes mains are tied! I 'ave to live with this now!"
Due to constant budget cuts, there was probably lots of things 'e, 'ow you say, 'ad to live with. Don't think that was one though.
It was on the approved maquettes long before they made the full size suits.
And he had his fair share of odd ideas like making the back tubes animated.
The only time they 'animate' is when the suit looks like it's falling apart when the Alien submerges before leaping out of the water onto the ladder.
In the movie, sure, but ADI built articulation into them and screen tested it.
People love to rag on ADI but they always seem to neglect the fact some directors have ideas that maybe aren't very popular with the audience (not saying this is one of them necessarily, but it's a weird idea and I'm glad they left it out).
Yeah I've seen the behind the scenes stuff. Maybe it was to go with the Aliens secreting hive resin from them in one of the drafts.
Quote from: SM on Feb 01, 2024, 04:57:27 AMMaybe it was to go with the Aliens secreting hive resin from them in one of the drafts.
ADI said it was just to give the Aliens more "life". I think we would've seen it most in the cages.
Also while checking for the shot you were referencing it reminded me how hilariously little Alien action there is in the movie.
In terms of suit work you mean? Never really thought about it, but it's almost all in the cage, plus the corridor with Elgyn and the odd close up here and there. They intended to do a lot more underwater stuff but I don't think it was practical. Would've been murder in that thing underwater. I think there's one shot of the head of the suit underwater, with a close up of a hand grabbing Hillard's leg and then a blurred shot of her being dragged away.
Just in general. It's like we see less of them after they escape than before.
It's a problem for whole second half. Too much standing around having a chat instead getting attacked.
Our main group only encounters Aliens twice - when Elgyn dies and the kitchen scene.
The video game did a great job taking the bare bones and creating a story that was actually interesting out of it.
Ok. I'll add JPJ to my list when I bash ADI. They are forever linked. lol.
Add Anderson for asking them to make Scar handsome.
Scar was handsome?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
They certainly made him less intimidationg than previous predators. his face is softer and his eyes is not as yellow or at least not the same as Jungle Hunter's.
Quote from: SM on Feb 01, 2024, 12:10:38 AMThe hosts being semi-conscious while being hugged didn't really fit either.
I think you mentioned this before, that someone other than Verheiden was conscious?
I went back to check the scenes in AVP and one guy in the sacrificial chamber does move his head, but I wonder if it was intentional or due to the flaps inflating and lifting his head up. The inflation mechanic is done by someone offscreen so there is more force (I think)
No, those flaps aren't moving peoples heads. It was powered by someone off screen in Alien, for example. The victims are all moving in AvP.
Only two of them move. One is the bald guy when Rousseau wakes up and the other is Verheiden.
So much for the facehugger putting you in the equivalent of a coma and the alien's blood oxidising and completely neutralising after death.
And to think our Paul said he was the world's biggest alien nerd and believed there wasn't anyone at all who has seen those movies as much as he has.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 03, 2024, 12:51:55 PMOnly two of them move. One is the bald guy when Rousseau wakes up and the other is Verheiden.
Great now imagine Kane being that active in
Alien.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Feb 03, 2024, 01:30:37 PMSo much for the facehugger putting you in the equivalent of a coma and the alien's blood oxidising and completely neutralising after death.
I mean to be fair, Bishop never said - or could possibly know - how soon after death that occurred. It would be bizarre if it was instantaneous, and render the acid blood pretty non threatening.
Verheiden was cocooned though, probably made putting him in a coma redundant.
I dont expect it is instantaneous, but the finger he uses to mark Lex a decent amount of time afterwards is questionable at least.
But the moving facehugger hosts really is a bit daft.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 03, 2024, 01:39:12 PMVerheiden was cocooned though, probably made putting him in a coma redundant.
Rendering the host unconscious is usually shown to be instantaneous.
There's two dudes moving just before Rousseau bursts (neither of whom - inexplicably - are Thomas). Then Verheiden is moving his head and hands and everything.
Wait, who's the second one? The guy in the orange Jacket is Thomas, the guy next to him who moves is the bald guy.
EDIT: I think I know what you are on about, Thomas' head goes straight when the facehugger's tail tightens.
Sorry, I think you're correct in that the guy on the right is Thomas. Or at least it's supposed to be.
He was apparently conscious enough to unstrap his video camera after being hugged.
Rousseau was conscious enough to pick herself up off the floor and lean on the sacrificial slab.
If they were conscious- they should've just tried maybe pulling the huggers off. They weren't clamped on terribly tight.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Feb 03, 2024, 01:42:44 PMI dont expect it is instantaneous, but the finger he uses to mark Lex a decent amount of time afterwards is questionable at least.
But the moving facehugger hosts really is a bit daft.
To be fair...that was supposed to be from a fresh corpse (Grid's?) but they trimmed/deleted that scene.
It was originally Grid's, but on set it just looks like chunks of regular Alien around them.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 05, 2024, 08:45:49 AMQuote from: TheBATMAN on Feb 03, 2024, 01:42:44 PMI dont expect it is instantaneous, but the finger he uses to mark Lex a decent amount of time afterwards is questionable at least.
But the moving facehugger hosts really is a bit daft.
To be fair...that was supposed to be from a fresh corpse (Grid's?) but they trimmed/deleted that scene.
I never paid much attention to that scene and thought it was a facehugger finger from earlier.
It's an adult finger from earlier. The one he used to demonstrate the acid blood while making the armour.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 05, 2024, 12:33:55 AMRousseau was conscious enough to pick herself up off the floor and lean on the sacrificial slab.
That was after the facehugger dropped off and she woke up.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Feb 05, 2024, 10:50:55 AMQuote from: SiL on Feb 05, 2024, 12:33:55 AMRousseau was conscious enough to pick herself up off the floor and lean on the sacrificial slab.
That was after the facehugger dropped off and she woke up.
True, I forgot; but she lands face down and wakes up on her back.
When she falls down, she is still struggling with the hugger so its likely she was rolling around for a few seconds before being knocked out while she was on her back.
The interesting thing here however is that she is standing a few steps before the grate that is in the middle of room (so its in front of her), but when she gets hugged and knocked back (away from the grate), the next shot shows that she somehow landed on the grate. A goof lol
She miles away from the grate when the facehuggers leap.
She should've landed almost by the door.
And yet it's been 20 years and I'm only realising most of this now.
I think the closest Rousseau gets before being attacked is just up the step by the slab.
There is quite a few goofs in that movie, for example, Celtic's mask gets headbitten and you see the hole, only in the next shot the hole is gone.
https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_vs._Predator_goofs
You can add another under revealing mistakes; the image of Scar and Lex is flipped for a shot or two at the end when they look at the hole made by the self destruct.
Interesting, I'll check that out. I guess there is still more things to spot in these movies.
It's from memory specifically the shot where they first stand up. You can see Scar's mark is flipped on his helmet.
You are correct, even a little before that, Lex's shield switches hands too.
The movie aged well in the sense that much worse sequels/sidequels arrived later.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 20, 2023, 09:20:32 PMDavis the producer wanted it set on Earth.
Watched it last week for the first time in a while and the thing that really stood out to me was how bad the sound design was. Just cheap, cartoonish sounds constantly repeating.
Yup, definitely on point with this criticism. The Predators have generic lion growls, the blades have generic unsheathing sounds, etc. The plasma caster sounded great thought.
The plasma caster sounded like someone dropped a brick in a toilet and made it sound more metallic. The whip-crack of the original was so much more aggressive and intimidating.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 10, 2024, 02:34:30 AMThe plasma caster sounded like someone dropped a brick in a toilet and made it sound more metallic. The whip-crack of the original was so much more aggressive and intimidating.
I thought it had a really scifi energy blast sound.
Yeah that's the problem. It's just kind of bland, there's no character to it.
I felt the movie was surrounded by a lot of negative hype during its release, leading to me not seeing it in the theater. I even stopped working on my first AvP during that time.
Which is weird, I would go see it now without a heartbeat, as it's still an "Alien" movie to me.
After seeing Aliens, Alien 3 and Resurrection on release, AvP was the first one I didn't bother with.
Quote from: SM on Feb 13, 2024, 10:09:44 PMAfter seeing Aliens, Alien and Resurrection on release, AvP was the first one I didn't bother with.
What happened with Alien 3?
I think it's there but the 3 fell off.
I've seen everything from Predators on (except Prey, for obvious reasons) in theaters, plus Alien in its 40th anniversary re-release.
It was 2007 when I got into the franchise(s), but I (thankfully) missed out on seeing AVPR on the big screen and didn't actually see it until it was on cable a few years later.
I was born in 1994, so everything from Alien: Resurrection on released during my lifetime.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 13, 2024, 10:50:32 PMQuote from: SM on Feb 13, 2024, 10:09:44 PMAfter seeing Aliens, Alien and Resurrection on release, AvP was the first one I didn't bother with.
What happened with Alien 3?
A typo happened.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 13, 2024, 11:23:49 PMI've seen everything from Predators on (except Prey, for obvious reasons) in theaters, plus Alien in its 40th anniversary re-release.
It was 2007 when I got into the franchise(s), but I (thankfully) missed out on seeing AVPR on the big screen and didn't actually see it until it was on cable a few years later.
I was born in 1994, so everything from Alien: Resurrection on released during my lifetime.
I was too young for rez so unfortunately my first one was AvP and I've never forgiven it.
I only discovered the franchise existed a year after Rez came out (and was too young to see them anyway).
Absolutely don't regret AvP being my first A/P theatre experience, I had fun.
As much as I hang shit on it, for a lot of people it's their entry point. The more the merrier.
AVP was (indirectly) my entry point. Had a bunch of friends talking about it, wanted to see it, went to rent it, and my dad urged me to rent Alien instead. :laugh: Rest is history.
Yeah my firsts were the trilogy on VHS.
the first AVP has aged mostly well, it's a fun and harmless movie whose effects aged well
I think it is as dull as dishwater, nothing worse than being boring and it is boring as f**k. With a director I can not stand in any regard. The Strause Bros I found to be insufferable fanboys but Paul W.S Anderson has scarred people for life under his care with his incompetence.
I don't mind it so much anymore, it has some nice effects shots and is kinda fun.
Hated it back when it came out, coincided with me abandoning the franchises for years. I didn't see it until a year or more after release either. A friend dragged me to see AvPR in theater and I loathed that movie to it's very core and still do.
I mostly lost interest in the franchises after 2004. When my son was born in 2015 I dove back in completely for some reason. I was crazy excited for Prometheus on 2012 but that fire burned out after seeing that in theaters. At the end credits I gave my brother a look that said "wtf was that supposed to be?".
I abhor the entire concept of AvP in any medium besides novels or comics. Keep your soda away from my wine. >:(
Red wine and cola is delicious.
(https://www.prosper.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/QLD-main-image-state-page.jpg)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jul 18, 2023, 08:52:15 AMThe official drink of AvP fans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calimocho
Does that tie into that cork that Sebastian finds in the cave or something?
Might still be better concept than the cave drawing from that other movie though.
Quote from: Wweyland on Feb 19, 2024, 08:48:00 PMDoes that tie into that cork that Sebastian finds in the cave or something?
Might still be better concept than the cave drawing from that other movie though.
Nah.
The movie does make a nice companion piece to Under the Tuscan Sun, Bova probably filmed them back-to-back.
AvP, a film I fundamentally disagree with the premise and the influence it had on stories since, but do recognize as being relatively well made under the circumstances if you move with all the changes made to the titular characters.
Perhaps Anderson's best film. It manages to tell an actual story, contrary to the abysmal, non-flowing sequel that was nothing but a collection of "cool shots" that by the time of release even managed to mess up that aspect by color correcting it to hell despite having a near perfect grade trailer.
So AvP? Solid 6/10.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 14, 2024, 07:50:42 PMI abhor the entire concept of AvP in any medium besides novels or comics. Keep your soda away from my wine. >:(
That's absolutely to the point
I can look at AVP 1 but I actually don't count it as part of the canon in any way because it's actually crap.
I see it like a comic and don't give it much meaning.
But the more I think about it today, avp-R was
actually just a cheeky thing...
I was much more bothered by the gamer kids at the time and with AVP2 (the PC game) the forums were full of newbies who had no idea about the franchises and especially saw the Predator like a superhero.
Well, there are those here too from time to time, but they are limited.
I was 13 when I saw AVP in theaters, so I was that targeted age group and did enjoy it despite growing up on all the original Alien/Predator movies before it (I started young and Alien:R was my first Alien/Predator experience in theaters).
Went through a period in my later teens where I would hate on it more for what it did and didn't do. It could have had more focus on horror themes and be more in the same vein as the originals (and The Thing)... Anderson directed Event Horizon before AVP so the potential was there of it being a solid sci-fi/horror flick... Instead, we got a movie with a comic book style that was more of a watered down version to the actual AVP comics it was based on.
I've grown to just enjoy AVP for what it is though and that's partially due to nostalgia and seeing it as a separate entity from the Alien and Predator movies. And, at this point, it's not the worst movie to come out, especially in terms of creature design and story direction. Turns out, things can always get worse. :laugh:
Quote from: PredBabe on Feb 22, 2024, 12:59:20 PMI was 13 when I saw AVP in theaters, so I was that targeted age group and did enjoy it despite growing up on all the original Alien/Predator movies before it (I started young and Alien:R was my first Alien/Predator experience in theaters).
Went through a period in my later teens where I would hate on it more for what it did and didn't do. It could have had more focus on horror themes and be more in the same vein as the originals (and The Thing)... Anderson directed Event Horizon before AVP so the potential was there of it being a solid sci-fi/horror flick... Instead, we got a movie with a comic book style that was more of a watered down version to the actual AVP comics it was based on.
I've grown to just enjoy AVP for what it is though and that's partially due to nostalgia and seeing it as a separate entity from the Alien and Predator movies. And, at this point, it's not the worst movie to come out, especially in terms of creature design and story direction. Turns out, things can always get worse. :laugh:
Wait... You saw Resurrection in theaters ? Despite age restriction ? How did you do it ?
In France where I'm from, it was impossible, despite all my childish best efforts :laugh:
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Feb 22, 2024, 04:31:04 PMQuote from: PredBabe on Feb 22, 2024, 12:59:20 PMI was 13 when I saw AVP in theaters, so I was that targeted age group and did enjoy it despite growing up on all the original Alien/Predator movies before it (I started young and Alien:R was my first Alien/Predator experience in theaters).
Went through a period in my later teens where I would hate on it more for what it did and didn't do. It could have had more focus on horror themes and be more in the same vein as the originals (and The Thing)... Anderson directed Event Horizon before AVP so the potential was there of it being a solid sci-fi/horror flick... Instead, we got a movie with a comic book style that was more of a watered down version to the actual AVP comics it was based on.
I've grown to just enjoy AVP for what it is though and that's partially due to nostalgia and seeing it as a separate entity from the Alien and Predator movies. And, at this point, it's not the worst movie to come out, especially in terms of creature design and story direction. Turns out, things can always get worse. :laugh:
Wait... You saw Resurrection in theaters ? Despite age restriction ? How did you do it ?
In France where I'm from, it was impossible, despite all my childish best efforts :laugh:
My mom went with my older brothers and I. :laugh:
I was only 7 so no way I was getting in otherwise.
Oh ok. Here it's forbidden even with adults.
America, land of the free ;D
I was only one year off from being able to get tickets for Predators in 2010 (was 16, and needed to be 17), so my mom came into the theater and took the money from my friends and I, grabbed a few tickets for us, and then just handed them to us so we could go into the theater while she went off to do her own thing. We were not old enough to buy the tickets, but also not young enough to get questioned walking into the theater without a parent, I guess. :laugh:
AR was the first one I got to see in the theater.
First Alien or Predator movie in theaters for me was AVP. At the time I kinda like it.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2024, 08:36:08 PMI was only one year off from being able to get tickets for Predators in 2010 (was 16, and needed to be 17), so my mom came into the theater and took the money from my friends and I, grabbed a few tickets for us, and then just handed them to us so we could go into the theater while she went off to do her own thing. We were not old enough to buy the tickets, but also not young enough to get questioned walking into the theater without a parent, I guess. :laugh:
I'm not sure I should've been getting into Aliens in 1986 at the age I was, but having a look at what the rating were back then I think it was more a recommendation than a restriction.
Me mum took me to see Aliens a month after my eleventh birthday during its opening weekend in San Diego.
Changed me life, it did.
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2024, 09:21:47 PMI'm not sure I should've been getting into Aliens in 1986 at the age I was, but having a look at what the rating were back then I think it was more a recommendation than a restriction.
Anything below MA15+ is a recommendation. Only
Resurrection was restricted on release of the original 4, with
Alien 3 getting reclassified later
So AvP has the same rating as
Alien,
Aliens, and
Predator, which is a bit weird.
Up till sometime in the early 1980s we had a rating called NRC. Which was a bit odd since I recall there were many films rated 'Not Recommended for Children' which were clearly made for children.
I bought the Aliens soundtrack LP not long after it came out and puzzled over the R rating on the back for a little while before assuming it was for the US.
I just double checked: R was used in Australia to mean restricted until around the 80s.
From 1970 it was G, NRC, M and R. This became G, PG, M, R18+, then X got added in 80s, then MA15+ in 1993. That explains why Predator 2 was rated R18+ and ALIEN 3 M15+ despite neither of those ratings being appropriate - they were too early for MA, which they both are.
Actually explains a lot of older movies being R18+, AND why every vhs in the early to mid 90s had that ad explaining the rating system on it...
I remember Mad Max was rated R. When Mad Max 2 ended up on telly most of the violence was cut and there was a bunch of alternate footage used.
There was also of course the very naughty XXX rated movies.
Quote from: SM on Feb 22, 2024, 11:52:13 PMWhen Mad Max 2 ended up on telly most of the violence was cut and there was a bunch of alternate footage used.
I own a copy of this version of Mad Max 2 on DVD-R. Referred to as '
The Lost Version'
I watched it endlessly on VHS and it was the only version I knew for maybe 20 years till I watched it on DVD.
Then wondered - what the hell is all this extra violence??
Mad Max 2 was released as The Road Warrior in the US so I didn't even know it was a sequel for quite a few years. Was it as big a hit down under as Young Einsten was?
All Young Einstein had going for it was a cool soundtrack.
I do remember a Yank trailer for it that pronounced the title "Young Eye-an-steen".
The US trailers assured me that it was a colossal hit in Australia. >:(
"Colossal hit" in Australia doesn't really mean the same thing as it might elsewhere. I remember it was very popular thanks mainly to songs and music videos from the soundtrack (which included clips from the film) being on high rotation, and I think it did alright box office wise.
Australia has produced it's fair share of great flicks that have done sweet f**k all business.
Speaking of Mad Max who remembers the the American dubbed version of the first film from back in the day? :o
Actually the first version I saw, for some reason that dub turned on by default on my Blu-ray, back in like 2016?
I actually really like the dub for Toecutter.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 23, 2024, 11:34:54 AMActually the first version I saw, for some reason that dub turned on by default on my Blu-ray, back in like 2016?
I actually really like the dub for Toecutter.
I didn't know they still released the film with that dubbed audio track. I have trouble watching that dubbed version.
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Feb 22, 2024, 08:06:05 PMOh ok. Here it's forbidden even with adults.
America, land of the free ;D
Now that you mentioned this, I did a lil' digging on the Motion Picture Association rating system around that time in the States.
QuoteIn 1996,[39] the minimum age for NC-17-rated films was raised to 18,[40][41][42] by rewording it to "No One 17 and Under Admitted".[43] The ratings used since 1996 are:[4]
Rated G: General audiences – All ages admitted.
Rated PG: Parental guidance suggested – Some material may not be suitable for children.
Rated PG-13: Parents strongly cautioned – Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13.
Rated R: Restricted – Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian.
Rated NC-17: Adults only – No one 17 and under admitted.
Being an R-rated film, we were gucci to go in with a parent. Now, I'm sure people were probably scowling at a mother bringing their 11, 10, and 7-year-old but we had fun. ;D
The Newborn didn't traumatize you too much at that age ? On the big screen his ugly (yet amazingly done) face must be something else :laugh:
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Feb 23, 2024, 12:43:26 PMThe Newborn didn't traumatize you too much at that age ? On the big screen his ugly (yet amazingly done) face must be something else :laugh:
I was more traumatized by his death. :o I may or may not have cried about that part.
I do remember being pissed off that it just b*tch slapped the Queen's face off though. LOL
Quote from: xeno_alpha_07 on Feb 23, 2024, 11:15:05 AMSpeaking of Mad Max who remembers the the American dubbed version of the first film from back in the day? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb2YcJgw8SU
I've seen short clips and refuse to watch more.
Quote from: PredBabe on Feb 23, 2024, 12:51:37 PMQuote from: BigDaddyJohn on Feb 23, 2024, 12:43:26 PMThe Newborn didn't traumatize you too much at that age ? On the big screen his ugly (yet amazingly done) face must be something else :laugh:
I was more traumatized by his death. :o I may or may not have cried about that part.
I do remember being pissed off that it just b*tch slapped the Queen's face off though. LOL
The screams. God the screams are still haunting me.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think I read once that there should have been a real fight between the Newborn and the Queen.
I think it was like that in the novel (?)
(But actually the newborn wouldn't have a chance against the queen...)
A4 was actually quite well received here and there were long queues at the entrance.
It was always shown in the largest cinema in our city.
All the hatred for the Newborn and the film in general only spread on the Internet some time later...
I like the newborn more than the A4 dinosaur warriors
The technical implementation was awesome.
None of the available scripts have a fight between the Queen and Newborn. Queens aren't built to fight plus she was pretty much stuck to the floor.
Yes, as I said, I'm not entirely sure.
It could also be that the newborn's attack on the queen wasn't just this one Bud Spencer blow, but that it lasted longer.
I think it was in the novel, I'll check it out.
update:
OK, I checked it.
The newborn didn't have a fight with the Queen in the A4 novel, but it attacked her for a longer period of time and didn't just give her a punch like in the film.
The newborn also ate parts of the dead queen and then grew a little bigger.
Unlike in the film, there were several warrior aliens in the nest here, but with the death of the queen they became disoriented and didn't know what to do.
I think I remember reading that Ripley 8 was actually supposed to be cocooned too. Gedimen was also infected with a chestburster that burst after the newborn killed him. At least I recall something like that.
There are brilliant aspects, the opening of the satellite which looks like the Queen, the Sacrificial Chamber as the eggs rise up, and when Dr. Graeme Miller (Ewen Bremner) awakes cocooned and tries to survive by shooting facehuggers, and more keep coming and it pans away as he screams, and the Queen chasing through the whale boneyard.
The Fights between the Xenomorphs and the Predators were when it felt it drifted into Comic/Video Game territory, which I understand is the point, but those scenes I listed felt very Alien worthy.
Yeah, the fight scenes weren't good, too many close ups and wrestling type fight going on. That being said, I really like the shot where Grid gets up after having its tail cut off and starts using it as a weapon.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 25, 2024, 07:03:34 PMYeah, the fight scenes weren't good, too many close ups and wrestling type fight going on. That being said, I really like the shot where Grid gets up after having its tail cut off and starts using it as a weapon.
That was visually a great scene in the fight, like the tail became a Spitting Cobra. :)
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 24, 2024, 07:10:13 PMI think I remember reading that Ripley 8 was actually supposed to be cocooned too. Gedimen was also infected with a chestburster that burst after the newborn killed him. At least I recall something like that.
No one in the hive on the Auriga had chestbursters as there were no eggs. The Queen started her second cycle before the Aliens escaped.
I meant like in the original drafts or something. I could have sworn I read something about Gedimen being infected.
I think of the fights, Scar vs Queen is the better one. Seeing Her Majesty in the open was a treat and I still the scene when Scar leapt and drives his combistick into her head was a very cool scene.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 25, 2024, 08:54:11 PMI meant like in the original drafts or something. I could have sworn I read something about Gedimen being infected.
No, it was the same there. Ripley was cocooned though.
The Alien Resurrection scripts - EXPLAINED!
Quote from: SM on Mar 25, 2024, 08:52:22 PMQuote from: The Cruentus on Mar 24, 2024, 07:10:13 PMI think I remember reading that Ripley 8 was actually supposed to be cocooned too. Gedimen was also infected with a chestburster that burst after the newborn killed him. At least I recall something like that.
No one in the hive on the Auriga had chestbursters as there were no eggs. The Queen started her second cycle before the Aliens escaped.
And the eggs on the stairs scene?
Taken from the eggs she lay before.
Yus
No I was agreeing with SiL.
Quote from: SM on Mar 27, 2024, 02:13:39 AMNo I was agreeing with SiL.
Still sus you Sussy Baka
Just rewatched it. It holds up well. I forgot how much I like it.
I do find it easier to rewatch than the prequels, if only because the lore is not as damaged by it compared to the prequels.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 27, 2024, 01:08:49 PMI do find it easier to rewatch than the prequels, if only because the lore is not as damaged by it compared to the prequels.
I never had anything against Resurrection, it's an unnecessary film? Yes, it is but it's better than any of both AvP and Prometheus and it's a fun movie
If you take it as a parody rather than a proper entry, Resurrection is enjoyable.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 27, 2024, 01:08:49 PMI do find it's easier to rewatch than the prequels, if only because the lore's not as damaged by it compared to the prequels.
If find the pussification and gentrification of both the Alien and Predator infinitely more damaging than anything the prequels add. Visually and auditorily underwhelming as well. It also undermines the Alien as an entity if it has been successfully contained on Earth numerous times.
I meant specifically to the lore regarding the life-cycle and biology of the alien. Other than the fast life-cycle and recycled design from rez, the alien in AVP is still an ancient creature, and not a lab experiment. Aliens being on earth is less damaging to me than them being a relatively new artificial creation. Just my own opinion here though.
There is plenty wrong with AVP, its just its easier to stomach for me when it comes to the Alien lore.
Quote from: aliens13 on Mar 28, 2024, 04:21:51 AMQuote from: The Cruentus on Mar 27, 2024, 01:08:49 PMI do find it easier to rewatch than the prequels, if only because the lore is not as damaged by it compared to the prequels.
I never had anything against Resurrection, it's an unnecessary film? Yes, it is but it's better than any of both AvP and Prometheus and it's a fun movie
The fun level is pretty high, but so is the dumb level.
Thanks Joss !
Whedon's script is not great but it's filled with interesting ideas, which Jeunet latches onto and expands and manages to make even weirder in execution than they were on the page. It's a gross, goopy, insanely pretty movie and though the tone and overall style doesn't totally click with what's on screen in the previous three entries, it's perverse in the way an Alien movie should be and it feels like a Dark Horse comic come to life in a lot of ways. It's pretty superfluous in the grand scheme of things in regards to how it slots into the overall world/story, but that's also part of its charm at this point, the extent to which it is so removed from what's come before. I've grown to really dig it over the years.
Pretty much exactly what I think. There are really good and vicious ideas in Whedon's script ( the clones scene), and really silly ones (basketball scene).
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 28, 2024, 11:35:36 AMI meant specifically to the lore regarding the life-cycle and biology of the alien. Other than the fast life-cycle and recycled design from rez, the alien in AVP is still an ancient creature, and not a lab experiment. Aliens being on earth is less damaging to me than them being a relatively new artificial creation. Just my own opinion here though.
There is plenty wrong with AVP, its just its easier to stomach for me when it comes to the Alien lore.
I could stand the bringing of the two universes together much less than anything that occurred in the prequels
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 28, 2024, 11:05:46 AMIf you take it as a parody rather than a proper entry, Resurrection is enjoyable.
What does it parody?
The alien franchise itself :laugh: . Tone is more comedic, adds more over the top elements such as cloning, superhumans, supervillians etc. Hard to take seriously, so I enjoy it better when I personally consider it just a fun satire/comedy spin-off.
How is cloning - something that was happening and in the news while Whedon was writing "over the top"? Supervillains??
This must be some new definition of parody wasn't aware of.
Cloning doesn't work like that as far I know. The USM scientists, namely Wren is unnecessarily malevolent. It would presumably be far easier to use animals, not to mention it would not be as unethical as what amounts to multiple kidnapping and cruel and unusual death.
Like I said though, its my personal opinion. You don't have to like it. :)
Cloning does work like what? Like a science fiction film 300 years in the future? Neither do artificial gravity or cryosleep or faster than light travel or monsters that go zero to a hundred in a few hours but cloning is over the top?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 22, 2024, 10:03:04 PMChanged me life, it did.
(https://assets.entrepreneur.com/content/3x2/2000/20170405204540-empire-yoda.jpeg)
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 24, 2024, 08:22:26 PMThere are brilliant aspects, the opening of the satellite which looks like the Queen, the Sacrificial Chamber as the eggs rise up, and when Dr. Graeme Miller (Ewen Bremner) awakes cocooned and tries to survive by shooting facehuggers, and more keep coming and it pans away as he screams, and the Queen chasing through the whale boneyard.
Yes
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 25, 2024, 09:01:56 PMI think of the fights, Scar vs Queen is the better one. Seeing Her Majesty in the open was a treat and I still the scene when Scar leapt and drives his combistick into her head was a very cool scene.
f**k yeah
(https://j.gifs.com/nZXRml.gif)
I'm very upset with all of you turning this thread into a Resurrection discussion >:(
Resurrection definitely has a more heightened, exaggerated tone, and a style/execution more comparable to comics than to the previous films themselves, but I wouldn't say it feels like parody at all to me. It is earnestly setting out to be another Alien movie, not to riff on and make fun of the ones that came before it.
I agree but say that I think most have made it clear for twenty six years, it is an inherently flawed premise to most, Alien Resurrection. Some can not buy earnestly into the cloning from the word go, especially used to bring back ostensibly dead characters, it only works to the degree it does because everything feels lalmost ike a fever dream.
Quote from: SM on Mar 29, 2024, 06:55:53 AMCloning does work like what? Like a science fiction film 300 years in the future? Neither do artificial gravity or cryosleep or faster than light travel or monsters that go zero to a hundred in a few hours but cloning is over the top?
Cloning doesn't work like it does in the movie but that is not what I consider the most over the top, its mostly about Ripley 8
Alien rez is less sci-fi and more comic-like to me.
Already stated in other threads that even the original films had a few unexplainable stuff, stasis. Flight speed. Yes even hours growth is pushing things but these last few things were atleast established in the first film. It set the tone and didn't show how stasis, gravity or the flight speed worked so there isn't much to contradict as its left to us speculate. Alien res goes comical with what it features.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 25, 2024, 09:01:56 PMI think of the fights, Scar vs Queen is the better one. Seeing Her Majesty in the open was a treat and I still the scene when Scar leapt and drives his combistick into her head was a very cool scene.
Now that you mention it, this scene does look unironically cool 😅. I've never thought I'd say that (I've always disliked Avp otherwise).
Quote from: Salt The Fries on Mar 29, 2024, 01:19:14 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 25, 2024, 09:01:56 PMI think of the fights, Scar vs Queen is the better one. Seeing Her Majesty in the open was a treat and I still the scene when Scar leapt and drives his combistick into her head was a very cool scene.
Now that you mention it, this scene does look unironically cool 😅. I've never thought I'd say that (I've always disliked Avp otherwise).
(https://img.wattpad.com/3425acd728fd1c51ae482824c06957415fa784f5/68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f5f683571543242474c73435143773d3d2d313237333839343333322e313731613361653037386665633137383330323931343536303934312e676966)
Scar: Hold my (combi)Stick. XD
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 01:53:18 AMQuote from: Salt The Fries on Mar 29, 2024, 01:19:14 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 25, 2024, 09:01:56 PMI think of the fights, Scar vs Queen is the better one. Seeing Her Majesty in the open was a treat and I still the scene when Scar leapt and drives his combistick into her head was a very cool scene.
Now that you mention it, this scene does look unironically cool 😅. I've never thought I'd say that (I've always disliked Avp otherwise).
https://img.wattpad.com/3425acd728fd1c51ae482824c06957415fa784f5/68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f5f683571543242474c73435143773d3d2d313237333839343333322e313731613361653037386665633137383330323931343536303934312e676966
Scar: Hold my (combi)Stick. XD
Damn, the Xenos are very adaptable to head wounds.
The Predalien took the wristblades to the head, and kept going as well.
Well for a few seconds before being vapourised.
Another took wrist blades to the head and his whole face fell off.
Pretty sure that was a shuriken.
Oh yeah. Oh well same result.
Speaking of the shurikens, never did like their design nearly as much as I do the smart disc in Predator 2.
Was pretty shocked that The Predator opted to bring back the weaponry from AVP/AVPR, but then... that's also the movie that put the Alien tail spear on full display as well...
I like both... do I prefer the disc? Yeah but the shurikan is cool too.
The disc has this weird blend of primal weaponry and more heightened tech that just really does it for me with Predator gear.
That being said, I'm all for rotating stuff out movie to movie. Let them all roll up with their own kits. Don't need to see the same weapons on every Predator every time.
The smart disc is cool. With the technology in it, it makes at least some sense on how it could be controllable, like a RC/drone. The shuriken relies on boomerang physics and could easily harm the user, at least more so than the smart disc could I presume.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1221558925220909103/1224072855306637434/IMG_4113.jpg?ex=661c29ae&is=6609b4ae&hm=bb15eec40c08922932f6f838f91904b36d2192617671d2bb63befa3b95a982bf&)
AvP 2004 gets bonus points for coming up with a unique way to get rid of its main Alien antagonist by drowning the Queen in the depths of Antarctic waters. Guess it's hard to blow something out of the airlock when you're on Earth
@E. Shaw , what's going on with your avatar ?
I always assumed the pressure got her, not the lack of air.
I used "drowning" incorrectly, didn't I ?
Good point about the pressure
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 31, 2024, 08:05:40 PMAvP 2004 gets bonus points for coming up with a unique way to get rid of its main Alien antagonist by drowning the Queen in the depths of Antarctic waters. Guess it's hard to blow something out of the airlock when you're on Earth
@E. Shaw , what's going on with your avatar ?
I agree, everything about the confrontation with the Queen in sublime in AVP.
I am testing some avatars of E. Shaw to see how they look once uploaded.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 08:10:34 PMI am testing some avatars of E. Shaw to see how they look once uploaded.
OK then, for a moment I was worried your profile had been hijacked by a malevolent AI
Quote from: Kradan on Mar 31, 2024, 08:19:52 PMQuote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 08:10:34 PMI am testing some avatars of E. Shaw to see how they look once uploaded.
OK then, for a moment I was worried your profile had been hijacked by a malevolent AI
I keep Cortana offline. :D
I think the current one is good.
The planet/halo Shaw avatar.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 31, 2024, 08:06:38 PMI always assumed the pressure got her, not the lack of air.
Possibly. But the water is less than 100m deep.
Really? I guess I assumed it was pretty deep coz of how the shot looks or something.
She's probably fine then, unfortunately.
In the film it looks deep yeah, but it's literally the shoreline of Bouvetoya, so it's not going to be some abyssal trench.
Bouvetoya is literally in the wrong place in the film however, so make of that what you will.
(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Deborah-Verfaillie-2/publication/260751841/figure/fig4/AS:614194240045065@1523446726452/Regional-bathymetry-around-selected-volcanic-islands-A-Bouvet-Island-South-Atlantic.png)
Unless the separator was built on an ice shelf out over the side of the island that reached to the deeper waters and yeah nah that's as far as I can try to justify that.
The runner survived being submerged in molten lead. I gotta think the queen has a decent chance of surviving the ocean depths.
Let's ask ChatGPT, shall we?
QuoteIn "Alien vs. Predator" (AvP), the Queen is indeed dragged into the depths of the ocean, which adds another layer to the discussion about the Xenomorphs' resilience and survival capabilities. Considering the examples from "Alien," "Aliens," and "Alien 3," where Xenomorphs survive the vacuum of space, exposure to molten lead, and other extreme conditions, it's tempting to speculate that the Queen could survive the pressure and environmental conditions of the deep ocean as well.
The key points from the earlier films that lend support to this speculation are:
- Survival in Vacuum (Space): Demonstrates an ability to survive without breathable air and possibly resist the lack of pressure in space. This indicates a physiology that does not rely on internal gas exchange at Earth-like pressures, which could be an advantage in high-pressure environments where gas solubility and pressure effects on bodily gases are concerns.
- Thermal Resistance: Surviving molten lead implies a resistance to extreme temperatures and perhaps an ability to maintain structural integrity under severe environmental stress. While this is more about temperature than pressure, it does suggest a general resilience that could extend to high-pressure environments.
- Structural Integrity: The physical durability required to withstand these conditions implies that the Xenomorph's exoskeleton and internal structures are incredibly resilient. This could theoretically include resistance to the crushing pressures found in the deep ocean.
- Adaptability: The Xenomorphs' demonstrated ability to adapt to various hosts and environments might also suggest a genetic or physiological flexibility that would aid in surviving extreme conditions, including deep-sea pressures.
However, it's essential to consider that surviving deep ocean pressures requires specific adaptations beyond what is shown in these films. Deep-sea organisms have evolved over millions of years to withstand pressures that can crush submarines and deform solid metal. These adaptations include specialized cellular structures, proteins, and membranes that can maintain functionality under extreme compression.
While the films and extended lore suggest that Xenomorphs are incredibly resilient, surviving deep ocean pressures would extend their demonstrated capabilities into a new realm. Given their fictional nature and the speculative biology presented in the "Alien" franchise, it's within the realm of possibility according to the series' internal logic. However, any definitive statement on their ability to do so remains speculative and rooted in the narrative and thematic needs of the franchise.
Quote from: ChatGPTAdaptability: The Xenomorphs' demonstrated ability to adapt to various hosts and environments might also suggest a genetic or physiological flexibility that would aid in surviving extreme conditions, including deep-sea pressures.
...that's millions of years of evolution Ridley! >:(
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 30, 2024, 05:13:20 PMhttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1221558925220909103/1224072855306637434/IMG_4113.jpg?ex=661c29ae&is=6609b4ae&hm=bb15eec40c08922932f6f838f91904b36d2192617671d2bb63befa3b95a982bf&
I remember staring at the clock because it gave us an idea on how long things took to happen and when.
To be fair the Runner was not submerged for long in the molten lead (though long enough to kill a human) and it clearly affected it since it went absolutely berserk.
Lead weighs 11 times more than water and it was a teensy bit hot.
Runner was fully submerged for a good few seconds. And a leadworks furnace is usually kept around at 1000C.
1000c? Lead melts at a bit over 300c.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 01, 2024, 09:44:28 AMTo be fair the Runner was not submerged for long in the molten lead (though long enough to kill a human) and it clearly affected it since it went absolutely berserk.
Indeed, it was so deranged it was going to attack and possibly kill Ripley, who was carrying its future.
Wouldn't have really mattered at that point.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 10:39:28 PMWouldn't have really mattered at that point.
It is interesting though that the self preservation instinct overhauled its need to protect the unborn Queen:
(https://y.yarn.co/4fd41699-96a0-4e2e-b1a9-b60c1aed11d2_text.gif)
We don't know that it would killed her. Might've just restrained her long enough for the Queen to pop.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 11:03:15 PMWe don't know that it would killed her. Might've just restrained her long enough for the Queen to pop.
The scene clearly indicates it has gone into hostile mode.
And the queen was a minute or two from popping anyway, so does it really matter if it ripped the hosts head off?
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Apr 01, 2024, 11:10:26 PMAnd the queen was a minute or two from popping anyway, so does it really matter if it ripped the hosts head off?
Hmm, still would be a risk because Ripley could fall and the Queen Chestburster could get hurt.
If the alien grabbed her, even to restrain her, it would have burned her as it was still coated in the lead.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 01, 2024, 11:17:09 PMIf the alien grabbed her, even to restrain her, it would have burned her as it was still coated in the lead.
Great point!
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 10:39:28 PMWouldn't have really mattered at that point.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 29, 2024, 10:52:40 AMResurrection definitely has a more heightened, exaggerated tone, and a style/execution more comparable to comics than to the previous films themselves, but I wouldn't say it feels like parody at all to me. It is earnestly setting out to be another Alien movie, not to riff on and make fun of the ones that came before it.
Taken on its own, I really like the look of A4, even if it's somehow inappropriate.
Given the tasks, the ship should actually be completely bright and clear.
Similar to the Prometheus. Only when the aliens break out and perhaps cut off the power supply could they turn the ship into a huge nest and from then on things only get scary.
So the ship is kind of scary right from the start and that doesn't really fit.
I didn't like the atmosphere in A4 because everyone here is way too cool and it didn't fit with the previous films at all.
When Ripley discovered and killed the clones, the mood in the cinema changed and I thought: well, now things are finally getting more serious. but unfortunately that wasn't really the case.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 01, 2024, 01:53:07 AMThe runner survived being submerged in molten lead. I gotta think the queen has a decent chance of surviving the ocean depths.
Even if the sequel to AvP looked different, it was perhaps planned as an open ending to possibly pick up again and bring the Queen back.
Another inconsistency in the matter is actually the resistance of the xenos, which always seems to vary.
In Aliens they are probably able to demolish steel doors, which suggests a very robust exoskeleton.
But they are effortlessly crushed by the APC. (Well, it also weighs a few tons)
But apparently Wolf can casually crush a xeno head.
In the A3 novel, after being locked up, the alien rams into the thick steel door and dents it, so that Dillon briefly feared it would break. I think if the xenos can withstand that, then they would generally have to be much more robust, especially in confrontations.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 11:03:15 PMWe don't know that it would killed her. Might've just restrained her long enough for the Queen to pop.
Maybe I missed something but I always wondered why the dog alien didn't just kidnap Ripley when it attacked the infirmary.
perhaps this creature was incapable of starting a nest. Still, it might have been safer for the brood to capture Ripley.
Quote from: Neila on Apr 02, 2024, 12:30:29 PMMaybe I missed something but I always wondered why the dog alien didn't just kidnap Ripley when it attacked the infirmary.
The only explanation that ever made sense to me was that the dog alien instinctively knew the population of the prison wasn't large enough to sustain a hive, so allowing Ripley to go "free range" would improve the queen's chances of finding its way into a more populous area. This also assumes that the queen can essentially lay dormant inside its host until the time is right.
But we're talking about a movie with a deeply flawed script, so it's just another aspect that requires mental gymnastics to make sense of.
Yes that last bit.
Mental gymnastics can be fun but also tiring.
Just like real gymnastics.
I think it might be for safeguarding the infant Queen.
Safeguard by allowing the host to run around?
I've always thought that sticking Ripley to a wall for a couple of days might end up in her being dehydrated, or an easy target for the prisoners. ie. Might be worse than having her run around.
ie. Mental gymnastics.
I meant killing people, but yeah, I wonder if during the plan to trap it they actually invaded "it's territory" similar to in Alien when Dallas went into the vents.
I wonder if it was building a nest somewhere for the baby, not necessarily with hosts, just somewhere fairly safe.
Ripley said she thought it was building a nest, but we never see it. Even its lair was bereft of any hive resin, and the one where Dillon dies was cut a few months before shooting.
I do love seeing little pockets of hive in the prison section of Alien Trilogy, followed by a full blown one in the leadworks which is itself much more contained than the colony one earlier was.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Apr 02, 2024, 09:24:02 PMI meant killing people, but yeah, I wonder if during the plan to trap it they actually invaded "it's territory" similar to in Alien when Dallas went into the vents.
I wonder if it was building a nest somewhere for the baby, not necessarily with hosts, just somewhere fairly safe.
That woukd make sense, I meant its appetite seemed excessive, though it came from beast not a human so it might not have been as cleaver in the sense that normal Xenos are. Now that I think about it, The Runner coming from a dog makes more sense cuz dogs can sense pregnancy and cancer, so I guess the Theatrical Cut Runner works better since it sensed the Queen in Ripley.
To be fair, Ripley says a few things that don't exactly end up being true but it makes sense for her character to believe it because of her experience.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 02, 2024, 05:40:12 PMQuote from: Neila on Apr 02, 2024, 12:30:29 PMMaybe I missed something but I always wondered why the dog alien didn't just kidnap Ripley when it attacked the infirmary.
The only explanation that ever made sense to me was that the dog alien instinctively knew the population of the prison wasn't large enough to sustain a hive, so allowing Ripley to go "free range" would improve the queen's chances of finding its way into a more populous area. This also assumes that the queen can essentially lay dormant inside its host until the time is right.
But we're talking about a movie with a deeply flawed script, so it's just another aspect that requires mental gymnastics to make sense of.
Perhaps the Queen Chestburster could communicate with The Runner via Hive telepathy and tell it what to do.
Quote from: SM on Aug 22, 2011, 11:15:56 PM^ Yep. I think the Resurrection novel mentions telepathy? But as far as the films go, there's none of that magic. Screeching and hissing (possiblty in the sub/ ultrasonic range) and body langauge do the job.