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AvP Merchandise => Alien-Predator Literature => Topic started by: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2022, 03:18:38 PM

Title: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2022, 03:18:38 PM
Basically just been revealed by an announcement regarding the Titan Books & Free League RPG scenario collaboration.

Quote"The ALIEN RPG has established the 'Frontier War,' as remote human colonies come under assault by an unknown enemy, dropping a deadly pathogen that unleashes monsters on those worlds," Titan Acquisitions Editor Steve Saffel said. "At the same time, in the wake of the Titan novel Alien: Into Charybdis, political tensions on Earth reach a boiling point."

These dramatic events play out in the recently released ALIEN RPG: Colonial Marines Operations Manual by Free League and three upcoming trade paperback novels by Titan Books, each independent but all set against a dramatic galactic backdrop:
Alien: Colony War by David Barnett  (April 2022)
Alien: Inferno's Fall by Phillipa Ballantine and Clara Carija (July 2022)
Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni (February 2023)
The results will set the stage for further developments within the ALIEN Universe, as depicted in the roleplaying game and original fiction.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Miguel on Mar 10, 2022, 03:47:03 PM
We've been getting a lot of fresh Alien news lately. I love that they're going to give the continuity a unified universe treatment. :D
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 10, 2022, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: Miguel on Mar 10, 2022, 03:47:03 PM
We've been getting a lot of fresh Alien news lately. I love that they're going to give the continuity a unified universe treatment. :D

Are they though? The Titan novels feel very connected to the Dark Horse comics... which are very not connected to the Marvel comics. ;)
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Miguel on Mar 10, 2022, 11:22:58 PM
I misunderstood. It appears that Free League was specifically referring to a joint storyline with Titan and not a larger unified universe. Sorry (I'm not a native english speaker, so I misread). :D
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xenomrph on Mar 11, 2022, 12:14:47 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 10, 2022, 05:40:40 PM
Quote from: Miguel on Mar 10, 2022, 03:47:03 PM
We've been getting a lot of fresh Alien news lately. I love that they're going to give the continuity a unified universe treatment. :D

Are they though? The Titan novels feel very connected to the Dark Horse comics... which are very not connected to the Marvel comics. ;)
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 11, 2022, 01:34:16 AM
It's not, it's very very good, Marvel's the illegitimate one in my eyes personally.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Local Trouble on Mar 11, 2022, 01:43:46 AM
Will Sal have a prominent role in shaping this shared EU?
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 11, 2022, 01:56:59 AM
Who?
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Local Trouble on Mar 11, 2022, 02:08:38 AM
The virtuoso who does the art for the Marvel comics.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xenomrph on Mar 19, 2022, 08:01:19 AM
Unlikely lol
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Miguel on May 01, 2022, 01:38:57 PM
Description added.

QuoteWhile a moon hurtles toward certain destruction, taking with it a Weyland-Yutani bioweapons lab, talks on a nearby colony could lead to all-out war among the colonies.

Hygeia, an outer rim colony, is doomed as the moon on which it was built hurtles toward an inevitable collision with the dead planet Hephaestus. When a distress signal arrives from a Weyland-Yutani biowarfare outpost near the colony, a desperate plan is launched to evacuate the trapped scientists and colonists. Their destination: LV-846, a key United Americas colony where high-level talks are scheduled to address the galaxy-wide hostilities between the colonies. Once there the evacuees, including a contingent of Colonial Marines, discover a plot that could plunge the colonies into all-out war. Their only hope may be an alliance with the deadliest ally imaginable.

BONUS MATERIAL: exclusive to this book, a new RPG scenario from Free League, publishers of the award-winning Alien role-playing game.

Also seems it to be released February 21th.

https://www.amazon.com/Mary-SanGiovanni-ebook/dp/B09YN4LJ15
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Kimarhi on May 22, 2022, 04:48:21 AM
The amount of novels being queued for release reminds me of my HS days.  Very nostalgic. 
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on May 22, 2022, 11:08:54 AM
It's really good stuff.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Corporal Hicks on May 23, 2022, 08:09:15 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 22, 2022, 04:48:21 AMThe amount of novels being queued for release reminds me of my HS days.  Very nostalgic. 

I think we've surpassed those releases now. Which actually makes me happy! I do really like being in this second golden age.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: felix on Aug 16, 2022, 10:48:15 PM
New Cover is up!
https://www.amazon.com/Alien-Enemy-Original-Century-Studios/dp/1803360984/ref=sr_1_229?keywords=media+tie+in&qid=1660690022&s=books&sr=1-229
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 16, 2022, 11:46:59 PM
Congratulations it's a Stompy!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/510x30iEpmL._AC_SY580_.jpg)
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: RidgeTop on Aug 17, 2022, 09:12:42 AM
Yeah looks like the same model that was used for Into Charybdis and Infiltrator. Beats the ACM Aliens and I dig the color scheme, but still a bit of a step back after Inferno's Fall.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Aug 17, 2022, 09:17:35 AM
I dig it. :) Better than most of the covers.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 17, 2022, 12:00:56 PM
It's undeniably one of the better video game photoshops, but it's still a video game photoshop.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Miguel on Aug 17, 2022, 06:14:25 PM
It doesn't look bad.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wompdonkey on Aug 18, 2022, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 17, 2022, 09:12:42 AMYeah looks like the same model that was used for Into Charybdis and Infiltrator. Beats the ACM Aliens and I dig the color scheme, but still a bit of a step back after Inferno's Fall.

Inferno's Fall's cover was like a comic cover in that what's on the cover doesn't happen on the pages.

Great cover though. This is still a step back


The story set-up sounds interesting. Three books in to the Colony Wars and we might actually get some of that. Colony War had some ship fights and 3Wexit, but that wasn't the focus, and Inferno's Fall  gave us a pov of the Colony planets getting bombed. We haven't had an actual Colony War though.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: felix on Jan 11, 2023, 10:32:35 PM
Delayed till March 14th.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Still Collating... on Jan 13, 2023, 02:07:29 PM
Too bad for the delay. I'm curious to see how this wraps up the loose trilogy. I don't have my hopes up, but I'm curious to see what was the point of this trilogy, what's the deal with the Border-bombers.


Quote from: Wompdonkey on Aug 18, 2022, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 17, 2022, 09:12:42 AMYeah looks like the same model that was used for Into Charybdis and Infiltrator. Beats the ACM Aliens and I dig the color scheme, but still a bit of a step back after Inferno's Fall.

Inferno's Fall's cover was like a comic cover in that what's on the cover doesn't happen on the pages.

Great cover though. This is still a step back


The story set-up sounds interesting. Three books in to the Colony Wars and we might actually get some of that. Colony War had some ship fights and 3Wexit, but that wasn't the focus, and Inferno's Fall  gave us a pov of the Colony planets getting bombed. We haven't had an actual Colony War though.

Completely agreed.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Nelostic on Jan 17, 2023, 02:52:39 AM
Aliens now become
like
Star Wars
Star Craft
Warhammer 40 000
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: TheBATMAN on Feb 08, 2023, 09:59:07 AM
This is now out in the wild.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Feb 08, 2023, 12:42:54 PM
Hoping it answers some lingering questions from the prior novel.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Feb 13, 2023, 03:03:50 AM
I don't know how I would feel about

Spoiler
David being the cause of everything here, even though it might make sense in a convoluted way...
[close]

Like, Colony War was terrible. I liked Inferno's Fall at first, but subsequent rereads kind of dragged it down for me. I don't know yet...
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: TheBATMAN on Feb 13, 2023, 12:08:22 PM
Spoiler
Im about 60 pages in. So far it is standard stuff but the setting of a moon on collision with a nearby planet is interesting. Plot so far is a Weyland-Yutani bioweapons lab is experimenting on xenos as they do and have successfully found a way to dramatically slow the growth of a chestburster embryo, meaning it can take up to several weeks to gestate with the theory being this would allow more chance of successful removal to keep the host alive. As usual, there is a containment breach.

On the same moon is a Seegon lab who are due to be evacuated in 24 hours time and they respond to a distress call from the Wey-Yu lab. There are a few marines and a female scientist and female synthetic who respond. They have conversations about the border bombings but that's about it so far.
[close]
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: TheBATMAN on Feb 21, 2023, 10:35:41 AM
Spoiler
So the survivors eventually get off planet and head for LB-846 which is holding a summit between all major governments to address the pathogen bombings. But the summit is sabotaged by General Vaughn who arranges for a host of bioweapons to be sent to slaughter everyone there. This ties into the RPG with Project Life Force and Deep Void.
When our heroes arrive, it is previously revealed that Dr Fowler has purposefully impregnated himself with an Alien Queen. He did this and used his serum to slow its growth, believing he would be evacuated by Weyland Yutani. The queen is born and the survivors use it to slaughter the XX121B bioweapons on the planet.
Siobhan, our main hero, obtains evidence of Vaughn's involvement which she transmits to all major government leaders. It is revealed she obtained the pathogen 'receipe' from an Engineer ship and has been recreating it on a barren world and Deep Void have been using it to bomb colonies with the hope that people would need Vaughn's private armies after she initiates a hostile takeover of the military.

Another disappointing book in what has been a very disappointing Colony War trilogy. The tie ins with the RPG is harming what has been a fairly solid catalogue of Titan novels.

No mention of David.
[close]
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Feb 21, 2023, 02:07:48 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Feb 21, 2023, 10:35:41 AM
Spoiler
So the survivors eventually get off planet and head for LB-846 which is holding a summit between all major governments to address the pathogen bombings. But the summit is sabotaged by General Vaughn who arranges for a host of bioweapons to be sent to slaughter everyone there. This ties into the RPG with Project Life Force and Deep Void.
When our heroes arrive, it is previously revealed that Dr Fowler has purposefully impregnated himself with an Alien Queen. He did this and used his serum to slow its growth, believing he would be evacuated by Weyland Yutani. The queen is born and the survivors use it to slaughter the XX121B bioweapons on the planet.
Siobhan, our main hero, obtains evidence of Vaughn's involvement which she transmits to all major government leaders. It is revealed she obtained the pathogen 'receipe' from an Engineer ship and has been recreating it on a barren world and Deep Void have been using it to bomb colonies with the hope that people would need Vaughn's private armies after she initiates a hostile takeover of the military.

Another disappointing book in what has been a very disappointing Colony War trilogy. The tie ins with the RPG is harming what has been a fairly solid catalogue of Titan novels.

No mention of David.
[close]

Wow...
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Ashen89 on Feb 26, 2023, 08:31:14 AM
Picked this up from Waterstones a couple of days before release, weirdly. Quite enjoyed it, it's a nice read, well paced and entertaining enough. I liked the setting and thought the author had a good sense of how to use the Alien to good effect.

Have to agree with someone above who said that the intermingling of the RPG and these novels is dragging the series down a little - both the 'product placement' of every weapon and vehicle being referred to by its full name and model number and the obsession with the political machinations of UA/UPP/ICSC which I personally don't find compelling in any way. Seems like they want to create a cheap knock off of the Expanse but it doesn't work for me,sadly.

Spoiler
Not sure about the biodrones, thought they were a bit silly/video-gamey. And the gangs decision to head into the infested conference centre instead of just bugging the hell out, resulting in almost everyone dying, had me scratching my head too. Surprisingly, I didn't mind the Queen thing, although it did remind me of that rubbish bit in Jurassic World where the TRex shows up and saves the day.
[close]

Would rate this as better than Colony War and on par with Infernos Fall. 7/10
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2023, 06:10:00 PM
So, for those who've read this and others, where 'border bombings' and more are all being referenced as happening through this and other books:

Does it somehow still make sense for Ripley's blood sample to be the only viable source of Alien-related genetic data to be recovered, by the fourth film's events? It always seemed like a convoluted way of getting it, forced by circumstances, but if we're having countless examples of Alien DNA exploding all over the place... Or is everything always being purged with self-contained nuclear explosions and such?

I'm still trying to get through 'The Cold Forge' (keep having to restart it) and have no idea where things have gone, so far.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 02, 2023, 10:38:10 PM
It makes no sense.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: VN1X on Mar 03, 2023, 12:01:37 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 17, 2022, 12:00:56 PMIt's undeniably one of the better video game photoshops, but it's still a video game photoshop.
I'm curious how some of you are able to tell (so fast)? What gives it away hah.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wweyland on Mar 03, 2023, 12:24:08 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2023, 06:10:00 PMSo, for those who've read this and others, where 'border bombings' and more are all being referenced as happening through this and other books:

Does it somehow still make sense for Ripley's blood sample to be the only viable source of Alien-related genetic data to be recovered, by the fourth film's events? It always seemed like a convoluted way of getting it, forced by circumstances, but if we're having countless examples of Alien DNA exploding all over the place... Or is everything always being purged with self-contained nuclear explosions and such?

I'm still trying to get through 'The Cold Forge' (keep having to restart it) and have no idea where things have gone, so far.
I thought that the old EU (Earth War, Berserker squads, etc.) was ignored because of this exact problem.
The "new" EU was having self-contained stories that would be in line with Alien: Resurrection.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: TheBATMAN on Mar 04, 2023, 01:32:55 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 02, 2023, 06:10:00 PMSo, for those who've read this and others, where 'border bombings' and more are all being referenced as happening through this and other books:

Does it somehow still make sense for Ripley's blood sample to be the only viable source of Alien-related genetic data to be recovered, by the fourth film's events? It always seemed like a convoluted way of getting it, forced by circumstances, but if we're having countless examples of Alien DNA exploding all over the place... Or is everything always being purged with self-contained nuclear explosions and such?

I'm still trying to get through 'The Cold Forge' (keep having to restart it) and have no idea where things have gone, so far.

Not really. Enemy of my Enemy is set in 2186 I believe and by this point there are numerous black ops projects and factions experimenting on xenomorphs.

Alien Res doesnt have a place in this continuity. Sea of Sorrows also falls foul as it at least was written with Resurrection in mind. From memory there is even a passage in that book that says Wey Yu have been trying to obtain a xeno specimen for 300-odd years which completely goes against the dozens of books and comics released since.

Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xenomorphine on Mar 06, 2023, 05:15:13 PM
Bah...

See, even if they're not dealing with actual live Aliens, it sounds like there are sitll lots of samples of related DNA which could have been very useable.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: VeteranSergeant on Mar 10, 2023, 08:20:02 PM
There's never been a real Alien "canon," as far as Fox/Disney were concerned. I know that Gaska likes to overhype his involvement with the franchise, but in reality the license has always been tossed around with very little concern for what is "canonical." Fox's licensing reps literally signed off on the Colonial Marines video game's story, which undoes Resurrection and significant elements of 3. Why? Because the Alien never mattered to them as anything other than a movie monster that could be licensed out for money.  Childrens' toys? Why not? Lightgun arcade shooters? Why not?  Crossover with Predator? Why not?  Crossover with Superman? Why not?

Resurrection introduced a scenario which kills the timeline for 200 years past Alien 3, but that's where all the fun things like Colonial Marines and pulse rifles sit, so Resurrection has been ignored by virtually everything ever done in the  franchise since then,

QuoteThe tie ins with the RPG is harming what has been a fairly solid catalogue of Titan novels.
The RPG is pretty poorly written, just to be frank. I go back to what I've said before, it's a setting for a game searching for a reason to exist, rather than the extrapolation of a setting so interesting it demands to be a game. The Alien universe, other than the Alien itself, is a boring place. Marines complain about never getting sent to any stand up fights and extraterrestrial creatures are so harmless that the Marines don't believe Ripley could have encountered something that was a threat to them. Space is so boring that bean counters quibble over the market value of a ship that disappeared 57 years ago. But the players of the RPG can't be bored, so the game has a back story with more opportunity for action.

Inevitably, novels trying to tie into the events of the RPG are going to be hamstrung by the fact that the RPG kinda sucks. Honestly, Destroyer of Worlds may be one of the dumbest RPG adventures I've ever read, and that's where the whole Colony Wars storyline started.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 11, 2023, 09:28:49 AM
The only thing I do not like in The RPG's the Arcturians, it's probably as well as can be done if they must be a sapient race of near humans being that using the context of the Engineers makes that already a thing in a sense, yes I wish it just got presented as a gender queer populace beside a military depot but the nature of the RPG means you decide what counts anyway.

Andrew Gaska has said as much, just like the suggestions of surviving Alien Eggs on Acheron and Fury, it flies in the face of both films centred on said locations but it is not to be take one hundred percent seriously, just something you might not have thought of or considered that might spring another idea newly to life.

I think it is pretty well written overall and most critically gets the franchise tone right but back on topic...

This not resolving any of the threads in Inferno's Fall (such as Clara Carija saying the Pathogen had been altered by someone) really makes me bitter towards that narrative now, it's truly like Prometheus where I have been duped into thinking I would get intelligent answers, but in reality things just arbitrarily happened for the sake of it.

This novel's just mediocre, but not in the sense it has some really good stuff and some really bad stuff like the aforementioned novel, but just serviceable the whole way.

Interested in your thoughts on this and The Alien RPG? @Still Collating...
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Mar 14, 2023, 08:14:07 AM
*closes his eyes as he walks into the thread to say*

I got a notification that the audiobook is now available on Audible.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: DavidIsDaddy on Mar 15, 2023, 03:31:30 AM
I ordered this book, but I didn't know it was part of a "trilogy"? Or ongoing storyline? I'm fairly new to the greater Alien media landscape, can someone break this down?
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: SiL on Mar 15, 2023, 06:20:30 AM
I don't think it's strictly connected, just three stories that expand on ideas in the RPG.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 16, 2023, 06:08:18 AM
It's in my library now, finally. And... I'm not really liking what I'm hearing.

(It's not exactly grabbing my attention.)
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 16, 2023, 08:12:09 AM
I also just realized that
Spoiler
Alec Brand is in the book,
[close]
so now I'm kind of annoyed, particularly in the context of Resistance and Rescue which were poorly done comics.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Kradan on Mar 16, 2023, 08:22:12 AM
Lol
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 16, 2023, 11:10:25 AM
12 chapters in and I had to stop because I'm pretty frustrated with it. Already, it's kind of a piss-poor Alien novel.
Spoiler
My issues are with the decisions that a lot of the characters make, particularly the group responding to the distress call as they enter the WY facility, especially with Alec Brand, because he's the only one, apparently, with any experience with the Aliens. My complaint was when they started investigating was why didn't he brief his squad since he clearly knows what's happening? Even if he wasn't entirely sure, it would've been handy info.

But apparently they sort of knew about the Aliens anyway through myths and legends? Nobody else in the group who heard these stories recognized the signs of an infestation such as corroded surfaces, etc? And this goes on for a while, too.
[close]

I found that really frustrating to me.


I will add that
Spoiler
the serum idea was kind of interesting but it also made a certain plot thread predictable. And with the context of hypersleep chambers, why a serum?
[close]
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2023, 01:58:56 PM
I've basically not read any of these books yet (got about a third of the way into Colony War and had to stop because it was so bad) but based on the general perception here it really upsets me that the interesting setup at the end of White's Into Charybdis seems to have been followed up on so poorly.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 16, 2023, 02:55:41 PM
I will admit that the writing style is pretty decent and the action so far is pretty good. But listening to the characters as they speak, I feel like I've heard a lot of this dialogue before in other books.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 16, 2023, 06:42:15 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2023, 01:58:56 PMI've basically not read any of these books yet (got about a third of the way into Colony War and had to stop because it was so bad) but based on the general perception here it really upsets me that the interesting setup at the end of White's Into Charybdis seems to have been followed up on so poorly.

I honestly just permanently removed Enemy of my Enemy and Inferno's Fall from my Kindle library, I'm just so disappointed I just want to pretend that they do not exist. I will just wait for whatever Alex White does next, still I will keep an ear out but I have stopped actively following this continuity.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: kie on Mar 18, 2023, 08:30:10 AM
About half way through with the Audiobook. Lacks any real suspense and just feels like an average comic book adaption, with cardboard characters. It's another weak entry into the series, almost in a different universe from the stellar efforts of Alex White. Still, it's not completely terrible, the setting is at least interesting and the pacing is decent...
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 18, 2023, 04:39:52 PM
That's another thing, the pacing is great. But in the context of Alien Resurrection, hypersleep chambers, and other Alien stories that deal with the same sort of template, none of these books work.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 19, 2023, 11:48:28 AM
TCF and Into Charybdis work fine as everything gets scuttled beyond retrieval...
(https://y.yarn.co/eafffaa6-3784-41f1-89cf-37b0d7b2e219_text.gif)

Phalanx similarly works fine because it takes place presumably somewhere just off the edge of the galaxy map, for the story to work in the first place.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xiggz456 on Mar 19, 2023, 01:05:26 PM
Just finished and I really enjoyed this one! Probably my favorite of this loosely connected trilogy!

The story hits the ground running in chapter 1 and continues this pace throughout the story with several "out the frying pan, into the fire" scenarios that kept me on edge throughout!

Spoiler
Getting into spoilers, we have our first craft to craft space battle which was wonderfully intense. Character-wise I felt that they all had enough character development for me to hope they survived and when they didn't I felt for them and the remaining survivors (damn near shed a tear when Kira was killed). The queen vs the bio drones was savagely described and after a hopeful ending the author immediately bleakened it in the last paragraph which I found dreadfully fitting.
[close]

If you haven't played through or read the RPG's Colonial Marine cinematic scenario then this story pretty much spoils the secret that you work to uncover there. So naturally many of the aspects and backdrops of the RPG are sprinkled throughout the story which I loved but not everyone will catch on to. Overall this action packed story was a great step in the right direction for Alien novels. 9.5/10
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 20, 2023, 06:08:05 AM
Heh. I just finished it myself and I have to say, even tho it was spoiled for me earlier, I thought reading it would maybe improve my opinion of it, it didn't. It's another disappointing entry in this loosely connected trilogy. And that's another thing, for a loosely connected trilogy, I expected more connective tissue to connect these threads as well as having more of a conclusion.

The characters were, in a word, dumb, but I would expect nothing less from
Spoiler
Alex Brand.
[close]
Doesn't mean the other characters had to follow in his stead. Aside from all of that, it was a very generic Alien book, and I wanted something that was a bit more fleshed out and maybe smarter.

If I had to rate it, it would be a 4 out of 10 for me.


On another note, I am expecting
Spoiler
David to show up somewhere and maybe be involved with the Shadow Government stuff.
[close]
perhaps in a later novel, but I personally don't think these books belong.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 20, 2023, 10:59:30 AM
Yeah that about nails it honestly, even leaving to one side the unanswered questions from Inferno's Fall's narrative, I am really sour on every entry in this trilogy.

Some of the character work and worldbuilding in the middle book aside, I have nothing to recommend any of them, and largely think them damaging to the vermisilitude of the current setting and continuity.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 21, 2023, 04:21:43 AM
Another issue that I do have,
Spoiler
in relation to this Colony War Trilogy is that the frequency of these incidents, which involves whole colonies disappearing and Colonial Marines being called to action, feels so egregiously high to the point that the public should be more aware of the Aliens and the so called black goo. Not only that, but the subject should also be added to the curriculum for Colonial Marines and other armed forces rather than be this classified need to know thing.
[close]
Feels like more colonies would survive if they actually knew what they were going up against.


Which would then be a huge contradiction to Alien: Resurrection, but that film doesn't work in this continuity anyway.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: HuDaFuK on Mar 21, 2023, 09:08:12 AM
Tbh I've never been overly fussed by the novels contradicting the movies because even when the books have ostensibly been written with film continuity in mind, they've invariably shit the bed in that department. (e.g. Out of the Shadows, River of Pain... Hell, even the excellent White books and Phalanx raise some big questions regarding why the Auriga crew had to go so far to get an Alien.)
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wweyland on Mar 21, 2023, 09:52:12 AM
I read from FB that the next Titan Alien book might be coming in 2025.
Not sure how reliable that is, but I actually welcome a pause to catch up with them.
The drop in quality has made the reading through them a crawl.
Also would love it if Alex White would make another one.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Mar 21, 2023, 10:24:53 PM
I'm actually jaded at this point. So I will be taking a break from anything literature related to Alien. I will be trying out the upcoming video games.. and hopefully that survival horror game that's supposedly in development comes out soon.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wweyland on Mar 22, 2023, 09:20:17 AM
I want to keep up to date on the books, but at the same time, there's so much more great stuff to read.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: HuDaFuK on Mar 23, 2023, 09:23:02 AM
Quote from: Wweyland on Mar 22, 2023, 09:20:17 AMI want to keep up to date on the books, but at the same time, there's so much more great stuff to read.

Yeah. I really need to catch up on AVP novels but I'm thoroughly engrossed in my re-read of the Fleming Bond books atm and knowing the recent slew of AVP isn't great really isn't helping prise me away.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wweyland on Mar 23, 2023, 10:23:17 AM
"Thankfully" there are not many AvP books. I found Ultimate Prey to be a slog honestly and haven't read Rift War yet.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Still Collating... on Mar 23, 2023, 12:39:58 PM
Yeah, Ultimate Prey was boring and silly a lot of the time for me as well. I read Rift War. That thing is horrendous... I so desperately tried to get into it, but no way. I stopped reading it near the end and have no intention to finish it. It's not really offensive to the lore that much unlike some other recent novels, it's just bland. And the action is very poorly written.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Stitch on Mar 30, 2023, 04:24:30 PM
I finished this last night and I seem to be at odds with most people because I really quite enjoyed it. It kinda reminded me of the old EU.

I thought the story was paced well, made individual aliens a threat instead of fodder, and used some concepts which were interesting.

The whole black goo bombing thing was unnecessary, and any number of other ideas could have been used, but I guess it ties it in to the rest of the currently EU, so that doesn't really bother me.

I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Apr 04, 2023, 06:50:27 AM
Quote from: Stitch on Mar 30, 2023, 04:24:30 PMI finished this last night and I seem to be at odds with most people because I really quite enjoyed it. It kinda reminded me of the old EU.

I thought the story was paced well, made individual aliens a threat instead of fodder, and used some concepts which were interesting.

The whole black goo bombing thing was unnecessary, and any number of other ideas could have been used, but I guess it ties it in to the rest of the currently EU, so that doesn't really bother me.

I enjoyed it.
Nothing wrong with the Aliens or the pacing. Black goo bombings not being addressed and the characters having extremely questionable judgement are what dragged it down so much for me, especially if you consider the history of one of those characters.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Sarahlyn35 on Apr 26, 2023, 09:41:00 PM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Mar 19, 2023, 01:05:26 PMJust finished and I really enjoyed this one! Probably my favorite of this loosely connected trilogy!

The story hits the ground running in chapter 1 and continues this pace throughout the story with several "out the frying pan, into the fire" scenarios that kept me on edge throughout!

Spoiler
Getting into spoilers, we have our first craft to craft space battle which was wonderfully intense. Character-wise I felt that they all had enough character development for me to hope they survived and when they didn't I felt for them and the remaining survivors (damn near shed a tear when Kira was killed). The queen vs the bio drones was savagely described and after a hopeful ending the author immediately bleakened it in the last paragraph which I found dreadfully fitting.
[close]

If you haven't played through or read the RPG's Colonial Marine cinematic scenario then this story pretty much spoils the secret that you work to uncover there. So naturally many of the aspects and backdrops of the RPG are sprinkled throughout the story which I loved but not everyone will catch on to. Overall this action packed story was a great step in the right direction for Alien novels. 9.5/10
I'm with you. I enjoyed the book overall, a few bits dragged but the first half of the book in particular was page turning stuff
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Necronomicon II on Jun 17, 2023, 11:55:47 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 16, 2023, 06:42:15 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2023, 01:58:56 PMI've basically not read any of these books yet (got about a third of the way into Colony War and had to stop because it was so bad) but based on the general perception here it really upsets me that the interesting setup at the end of White's Into Charybdis seems to have been followed up on so poorly.

I honestly just permanently removed Enemy of my Enemy and Inferno's Fall from my Kindle library, I'm just so disappointed I just want to pretend that they do not exist. I will just wait for whatever Alex White does next, still I will keep an ear out but I have stopped actively following this continuity.

I've pleaded to get White back 😭, but they're so so busy with other things. I'm chatting with them as I type this. 😅
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Jun 18, 2023, 02:20:45 AM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jun 17, 2023, 11:55:47 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 16, 2023, 06:42:15 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2023, 01:58:56 PMI've basically not read any of these books yet (got about a third of the way into Colony War and had to stop because it was so bad) but based on the general perception here it really upsets me that the interesting setup at the end of White's Into Charybdis seems to have been followed up on so poorly.

I honestly just permanently removed Enemy of my Enemy and Inferno's Fall from my Kindle library, I'm just so disappointed I just want to pretend that they do not exist. I will just wait for whatever Alex White does next, still I will keep an ear out but I have stopped actively following this continuity.

I've pleaded to get White back 😭, but they're so so busy with other things. I'm chatting with them as I type this. 😅

I'd be down for that. Like, that would probably be the only way to get me back into reading these tie ins.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: skhellter on Jun 18, 2023, 03:04:35 AM
Quote from: Necronomicon II on Jun 17, 2023, 11:55:47 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 16, 2023, 06:42:15 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 16, 2023, 01:58:56 PMI've basically not read any of these books yet (got about a third of the way into Colony War and had to stop because it was so bad) but based on the general perception here it really upsets me that the interesting setup at the end of White's Into Charybdis seems to have been followed up on so poorly.

I honestly just permanently removed Enemy of my Enemy and Inferno's Fall from my Kindle library, I'm just so disappointed I just want to pretend that they do not exist. I will just wait for whatever Alex White does next, still I will keep an ear out but I have stopped actively following this continuity.

I've pleaded to get White back 😭, but they're so so busy with other things. I'm chatting with them as I type this. 😅

godspeed. Alex deserves a crack at a 3rd story. (if they want to).
Blue is one of the best new additions to the series. Great character in two damn good books.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Necronomicon II on Jun 18, 2023, 03:25:45 AM
There's a new Black Mirror season out and the episode with Aaron Paul and their earth-bound droid surrogate reminded me of Marcus and Dr. Marsalis.


Androids fellating facehuggers also has precedence in The Cold Forge, more of this please 👀 🤤 —

"It happens faster than she'd imagined, the palm of the spidery face-hugger smashing into her face, crushing her nose hard enough to make her eyes tear up. All lights wink out as its powerful phalanges lock to her skull. Its tail whips around her neck in the blink of an eye, tightening like a steel cable, trying to make her gasp. The second her lips part even a little, its slithering pharynx shoots between her teeth, painfully wedging her jaws apart. Conflicting instincts rage within her. One tells her to bite down, the other to gasp for air. Her hands fly to her face, desperate to tear the thing free, everything inside her screaming, You've made a mistake. But when she doesn't lose consciousness, Blue remembers that she is the predator, and the noxhydria is her quarry. It notices, too. Its grip around her skull slackens, and the tail unfurls as it tries to get away. She slaps her hands to its back and slams her head to the ground, pinning it underneath Marcus's weight. It tries to retract its pharynx, and she sinks her teeth into its tough skin. It has acid for blood, but its hide could never be cut without a laser scalpel, so she holds onto it with Marcus's inhuman jaws. Its tail whips wildly, trying to break her hold on it, but to no avail. Then she sucks as hard as she can, drawing on the synthetic's strength, crushing the monster's flaccid glands with her palms."

Boy I'm getting juicy 🥵😁.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jun 18, 2023, 04:48:28 AM
It's only just occurred to me that the present tense might be why I struggle with those books.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Necronomicon II on Jun 18, 2023, 04:56:00 AM
*then she sucked as hard as she could.  ;D
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Stitch on Jun 18, 2023, 11:54:58 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 18, 2023, 04:48:28 AMIt's only just occurred to me that the present tense might be why I struggle with those books.
It does give a weird vibe. Definitely changes your impression of the story.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: [cancerblack] on Jun 19, 2023, 12:29:01 AM
Like I get that it provides immediacy to the text and can help draw you into characters, but it feels so weird to read present tense. Like it's a recipe or instruction manual or something.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: skhellter on Jun 19, 2023, 01:32:56 AM
or a script. Which is really appropriate.

But it's still really literary (with how it uses language and the focus on the inner lives of the characters).

Alex said on the avpg podcast that it also helps do away with the notion that "any character survives" because past tense gives the impression that a character is talking about what happened.



Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: SiL on Jun 19, 2023, 03:38:44 AM
Which is a bizarre comment, considering they wrote it in third person. Whether the character lives or dies is completely unknown when somebody else is telling the story.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Stitch on Jun 19, 2023, 06:26:22 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jun 19, 2023, 03:38:44 AMWhich is a bizarre comment, considering they wrote it in third person. Whether the character lives or dies is completely unknown when somebody else is telling the story.
Maybe White wants to be surprised as they're writing it?
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Jun 19, 2023, 07:44:07 AM
So I'm caught up on this very interesting topic - the present tense style. For me, it depends. I think it would work for horror in general just to make it more immersive, and I think it becomes even more immersive in the first person perspective. It would also work for stories that had multiple perspectives in general. I will concede that the style is not for everyone because, for some reason, it's harder to follow.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Jul 01, 2023, 07:57:18 AM
Alien: Enemy of my Enemy is your standard, decent but not amazing or special Alien novel. It's 7/10 or 6,5/10, if You are Alien fan, You should have good time with it, unless You consumed too much Alien content lately and are tired of similiar things. Because in it we have rather standard affair: experiments on Xenos, mad WY scientist, new hybrid that shows up only for few pages and doesn't anything special, and some marines action. It has some good things. XX121s are deadly and hard to kill, I like how few times in the book soldiers were firing to just one Alien and it often only got slightly hurt and ran away or killed someone. I also like return of Alec Brand. This returning characters give this Universe connectivity and though Rescue was one of worst DH Comics, Alec had potential as character, and in EOME author did aome interesting things with him, depicting him as someone with slight PTSD and wanting to forget about Xenomorphs and encounters with them. He acted too unexperienced at times though. Rest of characters were  fine. And the thing that I liked but also confused me was Connection to RPG. On one hand it was fun to see things from Frontier War plotline incorporated to the book, but it was also weird that book essentialy gives alternative conclusion to it and potentialy spoils it for players who are yet to play it. Also conclusion to border bombers ploy is sidelined and a little anticlamactic, but it's not enteirely this book's fault, it's rather because these whole trilogy wasn't really a coherent and connected story.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Retropocalypse on Jul 01, 2023, 10:08:16 AM
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Jul 01, 2023, 07:57:18 AMAlien: Enemy of my Enemy is your standard, decent but not amazing or special Alien novel. It's 7/10 or 6,5/10, if You are Alien fan, You should have good time with it, unless You consumed too much Alien content lately and are tired of similiar things. Because in it we have rather standard affair: experiments on Xenos, mad WY scientist, new hybrid that shows up only for few pages and doesn't do anything and some marines action. It has some good things. XX121s are deadly and hard to kill, I like how few times in the book soldiers were firing to just one Alien and it often only got slightly hurt and ran away or killed someone. I also like return of Alec Brand. This returning characters give this Universe connectivity and though Rescue was one of worst DH Comics, Alec had potential as character, and in EOME author did aome interesting things with him, depicting him as someone with slight PTSD and wanting to forget about Xenomorphs and encounters with them. He acted too unexperienced at times though. Rest of characters were  fine. And the thing that I liked but also confused me was Connection to RPG. On one hand it was fun to see things from Frontier War plotline incorporated to the book, but it was also weird that book essentialy gives alternative conclusion to it and potentialy spoils it for players who are yet to play it. Also conclusion to border bombers ploy is sidelined and a little anticlamactic, but it's not enteirely this book's fault, it's rather because these whole trilogy wasn't really a coherent and connected story.
Thanks for the review. I was contemplating finishing it after I read the first two chapters, but there was nothing really keeping me interested. From the sounds of it, I'm not missing out on much, lol.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Jul 01, 2023, 10:23:03 AM
Adding Alec was a really frustrating element for me. Because he was kind of a nothing character in a set of piss poor comics translated over to the novel, and in this novel, I questioned the intelligence of most of the characters.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Jul 01, 2023, 10:56:46 AM
Quote from: Retropocalypse on Jul 01, 2023, 10:08:16 AMThanks for the review. I was contemplating finishing it after I read the first two chapters, but there was nothing really keeping me interested. From the sounds of it, I'm not missing out on much, lol.
Yeah, it's not offensivly bad or anything, but it doesn't bring anything new on the table and does nothing exepctionally well. Like I said, Alien fans can have some fun with it, but even for them it's not a must-read. From this so called trilogy only Inferno's Fall was pretty good and interesting, I appreciate it even more now, after last few Books from Titan were middling.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 02, 2023, 06:06:54 PM
Things that are middling do not retroactively become worthwhile by comparison to things that miss the mark for me honestly, I just never got that mentality at all.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 02, 2023, 06:06:54 PMThings that are middling do not retroactively become worthwhile by comparison to things that miss the mark for me honestly, I just never got that mentality at all.

Well, our view on popculture isn't set in stone. It is normal that we change our opinions on some things. Sometimes they don't hold up to our memories, sometimes we grow up and our perspective changes, sometimes we get appreciation for things that we didn't like earlier. And often it is happening because of new products that handle similiar themes better or worse. For example many people look on Star Wars prequels with more warmth after sequels (wchich I don't really get, prequels are still worse ;) ). So Yeah, I think that it's normal that sometimes we look back at some middling products after experiencing total shit, and go: "well I judged you too harshly". Doesn't mean that this previous product suddenly becomes best thing in the world or something :) I like from time to time revisit things that I didn't enjoyed at first trying to find something good in them. I had whole Journey with Alien Covenant, from considering it middling, Through really not liking it, to enjoying it much nowadays. I still recognize its problems but think that there is more to this movie than most people think.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Aug 01, 2023, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 02, 2023, 06:06:54 PMThings that are middling do not retroactively become worthwhile by comparison to things that miss the mark for me honestly, I just never got that mentality at all.

Well, our view on popculture isn't set in stone. It is normal that we change our opinions on some things. Sometimes they don't hold up to our memories, sometimes we grow up and our perspective changes, sometimes we get appreciation for things that we didn't like earlier. And often it is happening because of new products that handle similiar themes better or worse. For example many people look on Star Wars prequels with more warmth after sequels (wchich I don't really get, prequels are still worse ;) ). So Yeah, I think that it's normal that sometimes we look back at some middling products after experiencing total shit, and go: "well I judged you too harshly". Doesn't mean that this previous product suddenly becomes best thing in the world or something :) I like from time to time revisit things that I didn't enjoyed at first trying to find something good in them. I had whole Journey with Alien Covenant, from considering it middling, Through really not liking it, to enjoying it much nowadays. I still recognize its problems but think that there is more to this movie than most people think.

I think this could've been summed up as, 'as time goes on, we learn to appreciate the things we've experienced as we look back on them' or something like that. But then I look at your statement on Star Wars and I keep thinking to myself, at least the prequels were a far more cohesive package than the sequels ever were. Prequels are still inferior to the originals, that much is clear.

And I used to like Prometheus and watching Covenant ultimately soured that film for me and my opinion hasn't changed since Covenant came out: it's still very much a mediocre experience for me.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Aug 01, 2023, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 02, 2023, 06:06:54 PMThings that are middling do not retroactively become worthwhile by comparison to things that miss the mark for me honestly, I just never got that mentality at all.

Well, our view on popculture isn't set in stone. It is normal that we change our opinions on some things. Sometimes they don't hold up to our memories, sometimes we grow up and our perspective changes, sometimes we get appreciation for things that we didn't like earlier. And often it is happening because of new products that handle similiar themes better or worse. For example many people look on Star Wars prequels with more warmth after sequels (wchich I don't really get, prequels are still worse ;) ). So Yeah, I think that it's normal that sometimes we look back at some middling products after experiencing total shit, and go: "well I judged you too harshly". Doesn't mean that this previous product suddenly becomes best thing in the world or something :) I like from time to time revisit things that I didn't enjoyed at first trying to find something good in them. I had whole Journey with Alien Covenant, from considering it middling, Through really not liking it, to enjoying it much nowadays. I still recognize its problems but think that there is more to this movie than most people think.

I think this could've been summed up as, 'as time goes on, we learn to appreciate the things we've experienced as we look back on them' or something like that. But then I look at your statement on Star Wars and I keep thinking to myself, at least the prequels were a far more cohesive package than the sequels ever were. Prequels are still inferior to the originals, that much is clear.

And I used to like Prometheus and watching Covenant ultimately soured that film for me and my opinion hasn't changed since Covenant came out: it's still very much a mediocre experience for me.

The important thing in this case is that our tastes are more or less fluid, and are being influenced and formed the more popculture stuff we consume. Of course we don't have to change opinions on everything, sometimes we have strong feeling about something and that's it. As for SW prequels, I'll give You that, they are more cohesive as one story. But sequels are better as standalone movies. Well, maybe not Rise of Skywalker. Seriously, f**k this film.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Aug 01, 2023, 08:55:24 PM
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: xShadowFoxX on Aug 01, 2023, 06:59:34 PM
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 06:00:45 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Jul 02, 2023, 06:06:54 PMThings that are middling do not retroactively become worthwhile by comparison to things that miss the mark for me honestly, I just never got that mentality at all.

Well, our view on popculture isn't set in stone. It is normal that we change our opinions on some things. Sometimes they don't hold up to our memories, sometimes we grow up and our perspective changes, sometimes we get appreciation for things that we didn't like earlier. And often it is happening because of new products that handle similiar themes better or worse. For example many people look on Star Wars prequels with more warmth after sequels (wchich I don't really get, prequels are still worse ;) ). So Yeah, I think that it's normal that sometimes we look back at some middling products after experiencing total shit, and go: "well I judged you too harshly". Doesn't mean that this previous product suddenly becomes best thing in the world or something :) I like from time to time revisit things that I didn't enjoyed at first trying to find something good in them. I had whole Journey with Alien Covenant, from considering it middling, Through really not liking it, to enjoying it much nowadays. I still recognize its problems but think that there is more to this movie than most people think.

I think this could've been summed up as, 'as time goes on, we learn to appreciate the things we've experienced as we look back on them' or something like that. But then I look at your statement on Star Wars and I keep thinking to myself, at least the prequels were a far more cohesive package than the sequels ever were. Prequels are still inferior to the originals, that much is clear.

And I used to like Prometheus and watching Covenant ultimately soured that film for me and my opinion hasn't changed since Covenant came out: it's still very much a mediocre experience for me.

The important thing in this case is that our tastes are more or less fluid, and are being influenced and formed the more popculture stuff we consume. Of course we don't have to change opinions on everything, sometimes we have strong feeling about something and that's it. As for SW prequels, I'll give You that, they are more cohesive as one story. But sequels are better as standalone movies. Well, maybe not Rise of Skywalker. Seriously, f**k this film.

Stand alone films that are sequels to each other?
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Aug 01, 2023, 10:26:16 PM
Yeah, Even if a movie is a part of bigger story, it should be enjoyable on its own, it should still tell a story that has beggining, middle and end and its story and themes should have some sort of conclusion. And yeah, Sequels trilogy lacks conectivity and isn't cohesive, wchich is in some way a con in all of them, but still, on their own, both Force Awakens an Last Jedi are better then any of the prequels. In my opinion anyway :)
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 01, 2023, 10:45:19 PM
The Prequels fall into so bad it is good territory for me, especially with how camp Palpatine can be in Revenge of the Sith, totally divorced from their larger context I just find them interesting artistically.

The Sequels have nothing I like, nothing interesting, nothing but hollow regurgitations.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: [cancerblack] on Aug 01, 2023, 11:00:58 PM
Now THIS is podracing.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: SiL on Aug 01, 2023, 11:11:38 PM
I really like The Last Jedi as a f**k-you to nostalgia porn. The idea that not everybody in the galaxy is everybody else's ex-coworker from down the street? f**king great.

I don't think it made for a good movie, but I appreciate the sentiment.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 01, 2023, 11:22:36 PM
Yeah that core idea's great, the rest's pretty shit though.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Local Trouble on Aug 01, 2023, 11:24:22 PM
I was actually pleasantly surprised when the sequels didn't give us a "the gang's all here" reunion with the principal characters of the original trilogy. People like Chris Gore still whine endlessly about it though.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 02, 2023, 12:18:19 AM
None of the films have been even all that noteworthy since Return of the Jedi in my opinion, divorced from their cultural climate anyway, Andor... now that's something real.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: jacobo1122 on Aug 02, 2023, 07:56:49 AM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 01, 2023, 10:45:19 PMThe Prequels fall into so bad it is good territory for me, especially with how camp Palpatine can be in Revenge of the Sith, totally divorced from their larger context I just find them interesting artistically.

The Sequels have nothing I like, nothing interesting, nothing but hollow regurgitations.

Oh yeah, prequels have certain campy charm, I also have fun watching McDiarmid's wacky performance or McGregor acting. I feel that only they saw what those movies are and just had fun. But I don't think that campiness was Lucas' intention, he aimed in serious story. And other parts of those movies are just bad, like overused CGI, unconvinvlcing dialogues, wooden acting even from good actors like Portman or Jackson, etc.


Quote from: SiL on Aug 01, 2023, 11:11:38 PMI really like The Last Jedi as a f**k-you to nostalgia porn. The idea that not everybody in the galaxy is everybody else's ex-coworker from down the street? f**king great.

I don't think it made for a good movie, but I appreciate the sentiment.

Well I think that themes that Last Jedi pick up, and its subvertion of fan's expectations do make a good, interesting movie. Plus it looks georgeus visually. It has its problems like whole unnecesary casino section, but overall great movie, giving something new to SW.


Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 02, 2023, 12:18:19 AMNone of the films have been even all that noteworthy since Return of the Jedi in my opinion, divorced from their cultural climate anyway, Andor... now that's something real.

Andor was amazing, best Star wars content since original trilogy, finally doing something really Creative in this Universe. Oh and Rogue One was pretty good, kinda setting a stage for Andor's atmosphere and themes.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 02, 2023, 08:14:30 AM
It only did something new for the mainstream punter, KOTOR and especially KOTOR 2 TSL did the same thing but better in the early 2000s.

I think it's so pleased with itself it forgets to do anything interesting frankly much like Glass Onion it honestly repulses me.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Aug 02, 2023, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Aug 02, 2023, 08:14:30 AMIt only did something new for the mainstream punter, KOTOR and especially KOTOR 2 TSL did the same thing but better in the early 2000s.

I think it's so pleased with itself it forgets to do anything interesting frankly much like Glass Onion it honestly repulses me.

Ohhhh you had to bring up Glass Onion. And just when I was forgetting that film altogether.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: VeteranSergeant on Aug 05, 2023, 07:18:52 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Aug 01, 2023, 11:24:22 PMI was actually pleasantly surprised when the sequels didn't give us a "the gang's all here" reunion with the principal characters of the original trilogy.
Yeah, but it might have helped if the characters weren't drawn from beige paste like Rey, Finn, and Pilot Guy.  And with no character arcs. Which is sad, because on the surface, Finn is a great character idea. Former child soldier enslaved by a vicious regime who has a crisis of conscience?  Think of all you can do with that. The redemption arc, the PTSD, etc.  What did they *actually* do with Finn? Eh, his conditioning breaks on his first combat mission and he never thinks about it again. Character arc resolved in the first, what, five minutes from the time he appears in the movie? What a waste. And it was hard to take any of The Last Jedi seriously. It's so badly written, from the idiotic premise of a two and a half hour slow "car" chase, to the "yo momma" and cell phone reception jokes.  It can't keep a consistent tone either, never knowing when to be serious and when to inject humor. The best example of that is Rey practicing with her lightsaber, getting more and more precise until she begins to realize her power and abilities and slices it in half.  Then it rolls down the hill, crushing a fish-nun's cart, who gets all grumbly and Rey looks over the side in Full Derp Face. I mean, think about the parallel scene from Empire Strikes Back. Luke's X-Wing sinks into the swamp, and he fails because he doesn't believe he can do it. So Yoda effortlessly lifts it into the air and sets it down next to Luke, demonstrating that it's all possible if he commits to the training and discipline. Luke, looking at the still-floating X-Wing says "I don't believe it," and Yoda replies "And that is why you fail."  And then Yoda drops abruptly, splashing Luke and R2-D2, covering them both in mud, with the scene ending with an angry blerp from R2.

Even Rogue One had better character development than the sequel trilogy, and that was just a Star Wars rehash of old WW2 war adventure movies like The Dirty Dozen or Kelly's Heroes. Even Saving Private Ryan follows that similar format of "Look, we got some people with a mission, we basically understand they are good, and the other guys are bad."  It's a time-tested premise, which is why Rogue One works so well and is the only re-watchable Disney Star Wars movie despite appearing to have been edited in a blender, and the final projection choices from The Mouse forcing in Moar Darth Vadur. Which, I'll admit is an exciting scene, though stands in very strange and stark contrast to the start of the original movie where an extremely nonchalant Darth Vader lets the stormtroopers do all the fighting.

Andor though. I agree that Andor is something really special. Like "Wait, how is something this good Star Wars?" But you have to look who put that together. It's got several dozen Oscar and Emmy winners/nominees behind the scenes. The showrunner and lead writer wrote the Bourne movies, Michael Clayton, The Devil's Advocate. The creator of House of Cards wrote the 3 episodes in the prison. The guy who wrote Nightcrawler and The Fall wrote 4-6. One of the guys from The Americans wrote episode 7. You had the Emmy-winning production designer from Chernobyl. A three-time Oscar nominated guy did the music. Directors and cinematographers from The Crown, Succession, and Game of Thrones when it was still good. Tony Gilroy brought an all-star cast with him to make a real show, which is why Andor stands out from the live action cartoons made by Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Aug 20, 2023, 10:17:38 AM
I was so excited for this novel. After Inferno's Fall - which just about dragged this franchise back from the brink after Colony War - I was eager to see what the continuation of those events would bring. So many questions: Is David back? Did he ever go away? What other havoc has the pathogen wrought? Where did all those eggs end up?

I found Enemy of My Enemy a fair while before its official release date in my local Waterstones, and I was thrilled. Finally! I'd have the answers!

Then I read it.

I have never been so disappointed. I'd allowed for the possibility that I'd be a little let down, but I was just horrified. At first I couldn't believe that this was the actual novel. I thought it was a fake version that had been sent out early for some weird reason. But it wasn't.

This must be the most boring Alien novel in existence. Not the worst - that honour goes resoundingly to Colony War - but Enemy of My Enemy really is 370 pages of flat nothing.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2023, 01:40:34 PM
Colony War was so infuriatingly bad that not only did I abandon it partway through - the first time I've ever done that with a novel, Alien or otherwise - but I've actually yet to pick up an AVP book since.

Reviews like yours aren't helping me make my return to the novels.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Wweyland on Aug 20, 2023, 02:31:14 PM
I just picked up Rift War but Colony War sounds like a total nightmare to finish.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Aug 20, 2023, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 20, 2023, 02:31:14 PMI just picked up Rift War but Colony War sounds like a total nightmare to finish.

Wasn't a pleasure to start, either.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Still Collating... on Aug 22, 2023, 01:37:11 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2023, 01:40:34 PMColony War was so infuriatingly bad that not only did I abandon it partway through - the first time I've ever done that with a novel, Alien or otherwise - but I've actually yet to pick up an AVP book since.

Reviews like yours aren't helping me make my return to the novels.

I had a completely opposite experience. Hated Colony War of course, but was also disappointed with Inferno's Fall (great colony-side family dynamics, that was well written, what was horrible was the barebones and ineffectual description of the Aliens/Neomorphs, the horribly inconsistent use of the Pathogen compared to previous material, the action wasn't written well, the synth daughter was too stereotypically stiff and robotic, the horribly written sequence where the MC grandma at the end, in very few pages has literally 3 fake-outs like oh no, she's certainly gonna die, and they do that 3 times almost back to back, every time a new Deus Ex Machina arrives, I was laughing at that point...), whilst on the other hand I found Enemy of my Enemy a lot better (expect one thing).

It's quality is almost on the level of the first Titan books, almost. 

Soon I'll write a full spoiler review for both books.

As far as Rift War? That thing is horrible. I really couldn't finish it. If that book kills of future AvP media, I'm gonna be really sad. But it's just that bad.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Aug 28, 2023, 03:07:36 PM
Here's a thought. Was this novel named after the saying "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", or the identical quote from AVP? I now cannot stop thinking about that.  :o
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Corporal Hicks on Aug 29, 2023, 08:46:44 AM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 18, 2023, 04:48:28 AMIt's only just occurred to me that the present tense might be why I struggle with those books.

I was the same to start with but I got into it quite quickly. And then speaking to Alex, I completely got their reasonings. You have less certainty of fates when using present tense.


Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 20, 2023, 01:40:34 PMColony War was so infuriatingly bad that not only did I abandon it partway through - the first time I've ever done that with a novel, Alien or otherwise - but I've actually yet to pick up an AVP book since.

Reviews like yours aren't helping me make my return to the novels.

Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 20, 2023, 02:31:14 PMI just picked up Rift War but Colony War sounds like a total nightmare to finish.

Colony War is easily the worse piece of Alien literature out there imho. Down at the bottom with Steel Egg. I barely made it through the first few chapters of Rift War, it was just also so bad. Aside from the anthologies and Inferno's Fall, 2022 was just not a good year for Titan and killed a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the EU. Vasquez was barely okay.

I've only just gotten around to reading Enemy of My Enemy. I had such a lack of interest. And...it was okay. I liked the opening chapters, demonstrating how lethal a single Alien could actually be, but then I never felt like the characters really felt any actual dread or danger from the Aliens. There were some interesting ideas in there with the whole
Spoiler
stunt the Alien's growth.
[close]
That's a concept I toy with in my plots or RPG scenarios I never actually get around to putting finger to keyboard.

But otherwise...it just didn't really do anything, I didn't think. The scientist character was likeable enough. The backdrop of the degrading orbit was interesting too. I'd completely forgot who Alec Brand was until they mentioned the events of Rescue and I was like "oooohhhh."

It wasn't a bad book, it just wasn't a good one either. It was just okay.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: ralfy on Aug 30, 2023, 02:18:25 AM
I thought the one for AvP was something like "Whoever wins...we lose."
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Stitch on Aug 30, 2023, 05:37:23 AM
There's a couple of lines of dialogue:

"The enemy of my enemy."
"That doesn't make it a friend."
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Aug 31, 2023, 01:19:41 PM
I honestly cannot decide whether this tripe or Colony War is worse. For as bad as the latter 'novel' is, at least it was memorable (for worse). This one has less than absolutely nothing going on.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Still Collating... on Sep 04, 2023, 10:46:27 PM
In my opinion, this is the best one out of the trilogy. Nothing mind breaking, but knowing what the books have been doing in recent times, even something that's not a complete disaster is worth noting. Won't be too spoilery. 

The deadliness of the Alien is represented well here, the early deaths were vivid. The science experiments were nice, the new development from the lifecycle is an example how to introduce new things with the Alien. Liked the different types and the gestation change. Great references from the RPG.

Loved the ending action sequences! Very fun to read, well described. But the synths were to robotic again...

The main marine connection to the Resistance comic made me roll my eyes. That was not needed. Also, a few maybe not inconsistencies, but unclarified things that harbor back to the RPG. The main problem is that the trilogy didn't amount to anything. It was supposed to be set during the Colony Wars and we haven't seen almost any of that. The Border Bombers aren't properly cleared up as to whom is responsible, especially with that ending... Nothing's really clear, or makes sense as to motive or possible alternative suspects (other than the ones the book spelled out for us). It doesn't seems as mysterious as it seems more clumsily done.

The writer is pretty respectful with the Alien itself, but the plot has loose ends and the characters do feel a bit flat sometimes. I wouldn't be upset to see them again. Nothing really made me irritated in the book like things did in the last two, just felt a bit more average. Still, IMO better than the last few I read (better than Prototype and Inferno's Fall by a small margin, a lot better than Colony War, Rift War and Infiltrator).
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: xShadowFoxX on Sep 05, 2023, 04:13:10 AM
I consider Inferno's Fall to be the best of the trilogy, even though it's more mediocre than bad, but it at least had better characters and world building, and I consider this book to be the second worse of the trilogy. Colony War takes that top spot.

As stated before, Enemy of My Enemy didn't address any of the stuff that occurred in the previous novels, no questions answered and I found the characters ultimately questionable, particularly their intelligence. Those links to Resistance and Rescue aside, a lot of everything felt contrived, and just plain boring. The only real interesting bits were the moon collision/breaking apart stuff. These novels are a great area to play in but everything feels restricted. So this falls below average for me.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Sep 05, 2023, 01:13:44 PM
I seriously thought "the deadliest ally imaginable" was gonna be David.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Still Collating... on Sep 05, 2023, 02:04:11 PM
I can see your point, even though Enemy of my Enemy had more bland moments (on the other hand, I will remember the final assault at the convention), still it wasn't at least offensive to me as Inferno's Fall was with it's treatment of the Pathogen, Aliens and synths even though the beginning half had the best writing for the characters of the trilogy. And neither did Inferno's Fall answer anything really.

Generally, a weak trilogy with a lot of wasted opportunities. Had good and interesting bits, but all 3 really missed the shot in different ways.

Quote from: Slutty Badger on Sep 05, 2023, 01:13:44 PMI seriously thought "the deadliest ally imaginable" was gonna be David.

Another missed opportunity, exactly.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Xiggz456 on Sep 07, 2023, 10:16:01 AM
I personally had the most fun reading this book and wasn't surprised about David not being involved as I had already read through the Colonial Marine RPG and thus knew who was responsible for the pathogen bombings but I can see how that expectation of David returning would negatively color one's perception of the final book.

Normally I reread all the novels a few months later but last year showed that there is such a thing as too much content with 6 books released; half of which weren't all that stellar so I haven't been very interested in revisiting.
Title: Re: Alien: Enemy of My Enemy by Mary SanGiovanni
Post by: Slutty Badger on Sep 07, 2023, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Xiggz456 on Sep 07, 2023, 10:16:01 AMhalf of which weren't all that stellar

That's putting it ever so nicely. What books were in the other half?