I just watched AvPR last night again for the first time in ages. I was trying to nail down exactly what I didn't like about it. Long list. But I was somehow not as offended by it as I was years ago. Does anybody feel better about the film since some years have passed by?
Absolutely....NOT!! :P
This isn't like Predator or The Thing where the film was initially reviewed mixed or bad before, but loved by fans only for critics to realize their mistake, its not a cult film either AVP-R is just plain old bad from the getgo, and still is, very few fans like film and for good reason. Its not wine, its water, it gets more staler with age. :laugh:
no
No.
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
I haven't attempted to watch it for some years but the last time I did, I had to watch it in 3 sittings as I couldn't stomach it. I don't see how this train wreck could ever improve. :-\
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
I see things completely the other way around. Prometheus is one of the best films in the series if not all time...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 12:27:14 PM
I haven't attempted to watch it for some years but the last time I did, I had to watch it in 3 sittings as I couldn't stomach it. I don't see how this train wreck could ever improve. :-\
I find the scene with the pregnant woman to be the most disturbing. One of the worst scenes ever in any movie. It literally ruins the film for me. I like the Aliens series for the mystery of the unknown, not necessarily the horror aspects. It was too much.
I watched it once - on TV - in 2010. I don't see myself ever watching it again, honestly.
Considering that my only DVD copy is in storage.. it's going to be a LOOONG while before I watch it. But I did watch it objectively a couple of months ago, and I can see why people don't like it. I enjoy it though.
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
I could say the same thing about PREDATORS. And I've seen that movie five times, I've TRIED sitting through it a sixth time when it was on television but I just.. couldn't muster the incentive to tune into it and watch. Five viewings.. That's more than giving the movie a chance to grow on me, it hasn't.
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
This is the opposite of taste.
Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 27, 2015, 12:55:13 AM
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
This is the opposite of taste.
Finally something we agree on.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 27, 2015, 12:28:11 AM
I could say the same thing about PREDATORS. And I've seen that movie five times, I've TRIED sitting through it a sixth time when it was on television but I just.. couldn't muster the incentive to tune into it and watch. Five viewings.. That's more than giving the movie a chance to grow on me, it hasn't.
Every time I see you go on about your dislike for Predators I die a little inside. I love that film and it deserves very little of the flake it takes. It is a far better outing than either of the AvPs and Predator 2.
Sure, there are things I'd change (reduce it to one new Predator, rather than 3) and remove some of the homages (there are far less than people like to exaggerate) but as a film, it's far superior.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 26, 2015, 02:42:15 PM
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
I see things completely the other way around. Prometheus is one of the best films in the series if not all time...
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 26, 2015, 12:27:14 PM
I haven't attempted to watch it for some years but the last time I did, I had to watch it in 3 sittings as I couldn't stomach it. I don't see how this train wreck could ever improve. :-\
I find the scene with the pregnant woman to be the most disturbing. One of the worst scenes ever in any movie. It literally ruins the film for me. I like the Aliens series for the mystery of the unknown, not necessarily the horror aspects. It was too much.
I agree entirely. The scene with the pregnant woman was vile, pointless, stupid, and a completely nonsensical addition to the Alien life cycle. I can take alot of gore and grotsesque things, but something about that scene was just so phenomenally wrong and disgusting. Strange sexuality has been a centerpiece of the Alien series since the beginning, but Giger's vision was always subtle, always hinting at a greater horror but never just throwing it right in our faces. One thing that I really found bothersome about it was how it was handled; a scene like that you don't just throw into a popcorn action flick. I will admit that the idea of being pregnant with a human fetus and having an Alien embryo inside of you is riddled with horror potential, but Requiem treated it in the most crass way possible. I hadn't liked the film up till then but this scene sealed my disgust.
On answering the original question, no, the film does not improve with age. It's a dark, muddy, offensive and poorly written mess that makes the first AVP film (which I actually like, though admit that it has noticeable flaws) look like Gone With The Wind and Resurrection look like Casablanca. Even Predators, which, despite having seen twice, was pretty forgettable, is leaps and bounds beyond Requiem. This film is just horrid in every single way and is easily the nadir of the entire AVP franchise.
I keep meaning to rewatch it; I've defended it in the past because I get what they were trying to do, but it poorly executed. I really must buy the Blu-Ray, I've read numerous times on here that it's a far better experience than the DVD because you can actually see what's going on.
In a way, the Brothers Strausse accomplished what they set out to do, which is to completely abandon the logic of who "gets to die" in the film and just made it a slasher film with completely senseless underpinnings. They sacrificed predictability, for mediocrity. Anything goes, and anything went.
There was no point to the killing of the little boy at the beginning. There was no sense to the killing of the delivery boy's new girlfriend. Now the delivery boy (I still don't understand how he survived being stabbed through the heart, lol) who wins the girl against all odds is left with no girl. Usually, people in these films sort of "have it coming". The girl (shall we say) repented and yet she still got taken out. This speaks of how mean-spirited the writers / directors were. They saw this as an opportunity to show the maximum gore in an assumption that this is what fans enjoy and it turned out that fans were repelled.
And the film was so dark that it was next to impossible to see anything of what was happening. Hmm do I go out and buy the Blu-ray? Do I?
No. I don't have the patience to watch it again but still I can't throw it away. Just like a disease. :laugh:
I think the real horror of any chest-bursting scene is in knowing the person who is having it happen to them. The drawn-out waiting game adds to the horror. When u see an infected person talking with others, yet fully oblivious to what is about to happen, that person is somehow simultaneously alive and dead. Getting to know them better, builds our empathy and thus also our horror rises. This is what made Kane's death so poignant. (That and the fact that it was the first of its kind.). In the case of AVP and AVPR, there was no emotional growth to any of the people infected during the film. So it wasn't horror. It was just gratuitous gore.
I think Alien fans aren't really into the gore. I think somehow we place ourselves in the shoes of the victims and "appreciate" the impossible horror of knowing what is about to happen. The final moments before the actual gore. That's where your real story is. AVPR totally missed this...
Still better than AvP 2004
AVP is infinitely better than AVPR.
Wow, I was going to post this exact thread, but you beat me to the punch,
Perfect-Organism. I just rewatched AVPR after over a year's absence of it and while I was initially afraid that I wouldn't like the film as much as I did before, I discovered to my delight that it still provides great entertainment value, at least for me. ;) Tbh, I always suspected that the reason I liked AVPR while no one else did was because of my affinity to the EU of the AVP franchise. AVPR seems to share a lot in common with the comic books from Dark Horse so watching the film was like watching a motion capture of another comic book story.
Interestingly enough, I also felt like I could connect with many of the characters in the film, despite everybody's statements that all the characters were flat. When the film first came out I was 17 and I could really relate to Rick's character since he and I were about the same age. I also lived in what some could call a "hostile family" so I kind of grew on the idea of a protective older brother to help out when my onscreen movie avatar, Rick, got in trouble. I also loved the Ripley-Newt dynamic from Aliens and was so distraught when it ended in Alien 3, therefore when their modern day incarnation personified in the Kelly-Molly duo appeared, it also helped me love AVPR. These characters weren't cardboard stand-ins to me, like they were to everyone else, but they were people I kind of wished I could have been around during that age.
Quote from: Scree on Mar 26, 2015, 08:28:07 AM
Yes. I can still watch AVPR and have a great time. I love the Predalien. It's a mean and frightening looking monster and didn't lose any of it's greatness. Wolf is still the best Predator, ever. Coming to earth to clean up the Alien infestation and wiping out every human that comes in his way. Even Miss Yutani appears at the end which is really cool. So yes, this movie is getting better and better. The only Alien related movie I like less and less is Prometheus. What a worthless piece of trash. Please go away, Prometheus.
I agree, Prometheus never should have been included in the AVP or Alien franchise. While I appreciate what Prometheus tried to do, I felt it ventured too far from what Alien was supposed to be and would have been better suited as its own separate franchise. Despite the fact that both AVP films flopped at the box office, they do provide a classic AVP vibe that really can't be replaced by whatever fancy spinoff/publicity stunt Ridley Scott can come up with.
Quote from: Russ on Mar 27, 2015, 09:58:09 AM
I keep meaning to rewatch it; I've defended it in the past because I get what they were trying to do, but it poorly executed. I really must buy the Blu-Ray, I've read numerous times on here that it's a far better experience than the DVD because you can actually see what's going on.
That's true, but there was some sloppy editing in the Blu-Ray cut and Jesse's death in the Blu-Ray's unrated cut is the same as the theatrical; the DVD has the extended, gorier death.
I think AvPR is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything.
I'd rather Prometheus expand tje franchise than AVP/AVPR.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Mar 28, 2015, 03:09:21 AM
AVP is infinitely better than AVPR.
In my opinion...
AvP-R is so bad it's good.
AvP is just bad.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Mar 28, 2015, 06:04:56 AM
I think AvPR is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills aleins and doesnt afraid of anything.
Que? ???
I think he's talking about Wolf
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 28, 2015, 05:49:30 AM
Tbh, I always suspected that the reason I liked AVPR while no one else did was because of my affinity to the EU of the AVP franchise.
I love the EU. Always have. It was my discovery of the EU that led to me getting more involved in the online community. I still loath this film
It's a matter of taste, I guess.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 30, 2015, 09:36:18 AM
I love the EU. Always have.
Same here.. At least the stuff from 1988 to 2010. I could do without the Hish mythos, or the Fire and Stone reboot.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 30, 2015, 09:36:18 AM
It's a matter of taste, I guess.
On THAT, we agree..
Dang, there goes that theory. Out of curiosity, you guys staid you couldn't stomach a rewatch, which scenes couldn't you go through again?
Everything besides Wolf in the ship.
The pregnant woman scene was too much, and especially because it was just gratuitous. If you're going to do something this groundbreakingly horrific, make the whole movie about it. Otherwise it is just gore and devoid of any value, other than for sick people's enjoyment.
Well, I appreciated that it revealed a new aspect of the Aliens' biology that we had never seen before, if nothing else.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 30, 2015, 04:36:39 PM
Dang, there goes that theory. Out of curiosity, you guys staid you couldn't stomach a rewatch, which scenes couldn't you go through again?
Everything after the first five minutes. The second the hunter and his son rock up the movie starts going downhill fast.
The pizza guy fights his bully scene was equally as offensive to me as the pregnant lady. We come to see Alien versus Predator but they give us some teen drama bullshit?
Seriously, f that movie. Lowest point of both franchises, & a pretty low low for what even passes as a theatrical release. Indeed, AvPR should have gone straight to video & been forgotten.
It definitely got worse. Mainly because of this site. I used to actually like it, even though I knew it was bad. Now it's just pure crap. It's mainly just a film to make wolf look good. That's it. There's only 10 - 15 minutes of watchable footage for me now.
Nope. Haven't seen it since 2008 and have no plans too. One showing is enough.
When i first went to see it at the cinema I was around 14 cant really remember and i thought it was average nothing special, was pretty disappointed because the intro showed all the audio cues from the two franchises. motion trackers, predator technology noises etc and I thought "oh yeah they are going to do the two monsters a good service" did they hell. more like p***ed on them, the only character I liked was wolf but then who cannot like the predators. the characters were just victims for the slaughter with generic backstories who you didn't care about at all and the aliens were just cannon fodder which is the worst approach you can take for them. for god sake they were killed by M4s which only fire a weak 5.56 compared to the pulse rifles explosive tip rounds. They also screwed the idea of the alien lifecycle by allowing the predalien to impregnate people just by snogging them pretty much, completely eliminated the need for facehuggers. The hospital scene with the pregnant women was just disgusting and done in a horrible taste, I could understand their intentions because when alien was first released the idea of a man giving birth to the alien through rape pushed the boundaries but that just took the biscuit, I still remember a good deal of people walked out the cinema when that happened. Last point my favourite scene of the movie was when the delivery boy's girlfriend got diced in half thought that was epic but that one scene doesn't make a movie.
When did people walk out of the theatre; during the rape or the birth?
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 04, 2015, 10:48:50 PM
When did people walk out of the theatre; during the rape or the birth?
When the birth happened, my brother who took me there with his missus just shook his head when it happened, hes only seen the alien and predator movies once or twice but even he knew how bull it was
Quote from: bloodinthemud on Apr 03, 2015, 07:56:34 AM
It's mainly just a film to make wolf look good. That's it.
True...but after Anderson's AvP with its fake pyramid-architect predators...I appreciated the Strauses effort to rehabilitate the predators. Their execution of course offended a lot of Alien fans
Personally, I think the movie could have been a LOT worse. Has anyone seen Species III (or any other SyFy movie)? It features another monster designed by H.R. Giger but is told in the most drab way possible that by the end of the movie, you have almost died of boredom like 10x.
Quote from: happypred on Apr 05, 2015, 02:31:34 AM
Quote from: bloodinthemud on Apr 03, 2015, 07:56:34 AM
It's mainly just a film to make wolf look good. That's it.
True...but after Anderson's AvP with its fake pyramid-architect predators...I appreciated the Strauses effort to rehabilitate the predators. Their execution of course offended a lot of Alien fans
Too bad they lacked the ability to do that in a talented way rather than just pitting the Predator (Wolf) against complete retards.
Tbh, I think the Aliens always were retards, well... soldiers willing to throw their lives away, to be more exact; only mindless ants would swarm sentry guns only to be endlessly sacrificed for the well-being of their hive. Out of hundreds of Aliens, only a handful are cunning enough like Kane's Son and Grid.
Humans used to rush machine-gun placements. It's not a "stupid" tactic. From what little we can see in the movie, few Aliens are actually hit, and some appear to be moving across the hallways instead of straight ahead, so they're not running right at them, either.
Out of 150-whatever Aliens, most survived until a thermonuclear explosion killed them all.
Still, anyone who played the AVP games knows by now that they are mostly cannon fodder, hell even Aliens shows them to be cannon fodder mostly. AVP2 did an excellent job showing that Aliens can be of different intelligence levels just like humans; whereas most Aliens just charged the sentry guns to save their Queen, the player Alien finds a secluded route that provides shelter from the automated turrets.
f**k the games. They show Aliens as cannon fodder largely because they have to. People would be bored shitless in an action game if they only got to shoot five things in the whole game.
Aliens doesn't show them as cannon fodder to anyone who bothers to pay attention and realise we see very, very few Aliens die, and every time they die in any significant number, they change tactic. That's not cannon fodder, that's learning.
To be fair, people not seeing Aliens dying onscreen is the same as people not seeing Aliens surviving onscreen; either way, people aren't seeing anything. Also, can't the same be said for AVPR's Aliens adapting? ???
That first sentence makes no sense.
The AvPR Aliens don't adapt. All they ever do is run at Wolf, then go limp when they get to close. Over and over and over.
I was thinking about the time when an Alien smacked Wolf off a walkway at the power plant, tbh. As for the cannon fodder moments, I think it's pretty clear that the Strause Bros. were following the cannon fodder interpretation of Aliens and the games than the adaptive interpretation. What I meant referring to my earlier sentence was that just because we don't see Aliens die onscreen doesn't mean they survived, Cameron deliberately hid most of the action to create a feeling of horror and suspense so we can only guess if the creatures actually survived or died.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 11:01:36 PM
I was thinking about the time when an Alien smacked Wolf off a walkway at the power plant, tbh.
Instead of immediately impaling him like any Alien in the previous movie would've done.
QuoteWhat I meant referring to my earlier sentence was that just because we don't see Aliens die onscreen doesn't mean they survived, Cameron deliberately hid most of the action to create a feeling of horror and suspense so we can only guess if the creatures actually survived or died.
He actually bothered to show us Aliens dying, though. Very few of them. And he bothered to show us a massive wall of motion signals at the end of the movie, showing most were still around.
We know they died: the thermonuclear explosion took care of that. But before then, they lost very few.
Well, all I know is that there are differing opinions on the issue in Aliens; some believe many of the Aliens were killed as cannon fodder while others, like yourself, believe in a more adaptive interpretation. I just follow the "everything is canon" doctrine Fox has laid out so that means the Aliens are interpreted mostly as cannon fodder to me, with exception to a few exceedingly smart ones. ;). Sadly for your interpretation, it seems the Strause Bros. were following the cannon fodder interpretation than the adaptive one.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 11:13:13 PM
Well, all I know is that there are differing opinions on the issue in Aliens; some believe many of the Aliens were killed as cannon fodder while others, like yourself, believe in a more adaptive interpretation.
The ones who believe the Aliens were mowed down in large numbers are demonstrably wrong. :) It's not a matter of opinion, they're just wrong.
The portrayal of the Aliens in AvPR has nothing to do with some "cannon fodder vs. adaptive interpretation" crap you're just now pulling out your backside: they're simply incompetent and not the least bit threatening and act completely contrary to
any Aliens shown in films. They also act contrary to Aliens shown in games. And comics. And novels.
The "cannon fodder" idea is that they will throw a lot of themselves into guns and no-one cares about the individual Aliens, it doesn't mean they're literally useless like AvPR shows them. Even in
Aliens, when they get their hands on you, you're f**ked.
How many times playing an AvP video game did the Aliens that ran up to you just stop attacking the second you hit them once with your wristblades as a Predator? Never, unless you'd damaged it enough for that hit to kill it.
How does AVPR demonstrably show them to be "useless"? They're still quite lethal and are responsible for killing LOTS of humans, the fact that they're not quite as effective against Wolf, who is an Alien-hunting veteran, isn't exactly a surprise for those who have been playing the games.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 11:46:33 PM
the fact that they're not quite as effective against Wolf, who is an Alien-hunting veteran, isn't exactly a surprise for those who have been playing the games.
It's incredibly surprising to me. Not a damn time could I make an Alien in
any game just stop attacking me by stabbing it once. If I stabbed it once, it stabbed me twice. Rarely was I dumb enough or unlucky enough to even let the Aliens get that close to start with, because being dog-piled by Aliens meant dying.
Wolf's never shown to be any good at anything he does, the Aliens are just somehow the only thing in the universe
less competent than him. If he'd gone up against any of the Aliens just from the previous movie and tried the same shit, he would've been dead after his first encounter.
"But he's an elite!"
No, he's a God-damned idiot who strikes poses and leaves himself wide open. His only salvation is that his enemies don't take any of the dozens of opportunities he gives them to impale him and end it. The Strausse Brothers decided they didn't like Aliens using their tails in an offensive manner -- despite the fact they have
always done so -- and so had them flop around in the background, despite
every Alien in just the previous movie Alien using its tail to stab the shit out of a Predator at any given opportunity.
It's just shit all the way down.
QuoteIt's incredibly surprising to me. Not a damn time could I make an Alien in any game just stop attacking me by stabbing it once. If I stabbed it once, it stabbed me twice. Rarely was I dumb enough or unlucky enough to even let the Aliens get that close to start with, because being dog-piled by Aliens meant dying.
You'll have to be a bit more specific on when an Alien stopped attacking just because it was stabbed. Also as you said earlier, there are some game mechanics when it comes to video games; perhaps the Alien would have winced when attacked had the incident occurred in a movie or book.
QuoteWolf's never shown to be any good at anything he does, the Aliens are just somehow the only thing in the universe less competent than him. If he'd gone up against any of the Aliens just from the previous movie and tried the same shit, he would've been dead after his first encounter.
Again, more details please.
QuoteNo, he's a God-damned idiot who strikes poses and leaves himself wide open. His only salvation is that his enemies don't take any of the dozens of opportunities he gives them to impale him and end it. The Strausse Brothers decided they didn't like Aliens using their tails in an offensive manner -- despite the fact they have always done so -- and so had them flop around in the background, despite every Alien in just the previous movie Alien using its tail to stab the shit out of a Predator at any given opportunity.
Well, Chet tail-stabbed Rick... Also, I think the Aliens in the film were more favorable to pounces than tail attacks; in AVP2, pounces actually did far more damage than tail jabs.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 05, 2015, 11:59:37 PM
You'll have to be a bit more specific on when an Alien stopped attacking just because it was stabbed.
Hospital. Wolf stabbed Alien, held it against a wall while he shot another Alien, threw the first Alien back down, shoots it in the head.
Alien does nothing the whole time.
QuoteAgain, more details please.
No. You know all of the scenes I'm talking about where he's left wide open and unprotected from attack, and the Aliens don't attack.
QuoteWell, Chet tail-stabbed Rick...
But not Wolf when Wolf had both of his hands occupied holding Aliens. The Alien that knocked Wolf over at the power plant could have just impaled him.
QuoteHospital. Wolf stabbed Alien, held it against a wall while he shot another Alien, threw the first Alien back down, shoots it in the head.
Alien does nothing the whole time.
Well, I suppose Wolf could have stabbed the Alien in a vital organ. In the games, the Predator attacks with swiping attacks rather than stabbing ones. In real life, if you stabbed someone then that could inflict serious damage if you hit the right spot however if you swipe at them with a knife then the ribcage will help deflect the attack.
QuoteNo. You know all of the scenes I'm talking about where he's left wide open and unprotected from attack, and the Aliens don't attack.
I know every scene in the movie, but I don't interpret those scenes the same way you do.
QuoteBut not Wolf when Wolf had both of his hands occupied holding Aliens. The Alien that knocked Wolf over at the power plant could have just impaled him.
He kinda did actually, the Alien knocked Wolf off the walkway where he got impaled on a metal strut upon landing which was so serious a wound Wolf actually had to use his medikit to appropriately recover. Also as I said earlier, the Aliens in the movie were more favorable to pouncing which has done more damage than tail-jabs in the games. Also depending on how flexible the tail is, adjusting that appendage into an appropriate attack position could have been difficult and awkward during the sewer fight scene.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 12:15:45 AM
In the games, the Predator attacks with swiping attacks rather than stabbing ones.
You can punch with wristblades.
QuoteHe kinda did actually,
In no way did it. A metal beam he
happened to f**king land on did, not the Alien. There's no "kind of", "maybe" or "almost" about it. How desperate
are you? :-\
QuoteAlso as I said earlier, the Aliens in the movie were more favorable to pouncing which has done more damage than tail-jabs in the games.
Strausse Brothers said only the movies were canon :)
QuoteYou can punch with wristblades.
Only the right hand had wrist blades, not the left. Also, there are game mechanics in a game as I said earlier.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
QuoteHe kinda did actually,
In no way did it. A metal beam he happened to f**king land on did, not the Alien. There's no "kind of", "maybe" or "almost" about it. How desperate are you? :-\
You can nitpick Alien tactics all you want but you know that if AVPR had been a popular movie then no one would even be considering these minor points just like nobody wants to consider how Ripley's elbow can withstand the vacuum of space in Aliens or why she thought it was a good idea to open an air lock into it when she had no guarantee that Newt or Bishop would not get sucked in, sometimes characters/monsters do strange things in movies (and even in real life), don't over-analyze it.
Plus, you are forgetting that tail stabbing may not have been a viable option for the Alien since they were on a walkway and that's a VERY narrow fighting space so it could have been more appropriate to send Wolf falling to great injury than to risk that sort of disadvantage in a fight. Also calm down, we're just having a discussion, there's no reason to lose it. :)
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:22:28 AM
Strausse Brothers said only the movies were canon :)
I would definitely like a source for this.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 12:30:56 AM
Only the right hand had wrist blades, not the left. Also, there are game mechanics in a game as I said earlier.
Which hand has them is irrelevant (And they're on the right for all of the Predators in the movies up until that point, so why are you even mentioning this?), and if they'd wanted it to always swing they would have animated it like that. Game mechanics don't factor into it. Don't use game mechanics to worm out of it, when you won't use game mechanics to explain cannon fodder Aliens.
As for your previous comment on flinching, flinching mechanics had been around for ages in games. Hell,
Doom has flinching, it's how you can kill a Pinkie demon with a chainsaw and not get hurt. If they'd wanted it, they could have put it in there.
QuoteYou can nitpick Alien tactics all you want but you know that if AVPR had been a popular movie then no one would even be considering these minor points
Yes they would. And these aren't minor points, they're crucial to the central conflict of the film -- Aliens and Predators fighting. All of these things undermine that, and without that, the film never stands a chance.
If the film had been popular it would likely be because many of these issues weren't in it :)
Quotejust like nobody wants to consider how Ripley's elbow can withstand the vacuum of space in Aliens
This gets called out a lot.
Quoteor why she thought it was a good idea to open an air lock into it when she had no guarantee that Newt or Bishop would not get sucked in,
This isn't the same thing at all -- but even if it were: She's desperate to kill the Queen. The fact she doesn't make sure they're secured isn't ignored, it's
used to add tension to the scene when we see Newt sliding along the ground.
QuoteI would definitely like a source for this.
On these forums, when asked.
QuoteAs for your previous comment on flinching, flinching mechanics have been around for ages. Hell, Doom has flinching, it's how you can kill a Pinkie demon with a chainsaw and not get hurt.
Each game has its own mechanics, it depends if the developer wants to add them, but this is going off-topic.
QuoteThis isn't the same thing at all -- but even if it were: She's desperate to kill the Queen. The fact she doesn't make sure they're secured isn't ignored, it's used to add tension to the scene when we see Newt sliding along the ground.
So if you're desperate to eliminate the
only threat to the people you care about, your best option would be to risk the very people you care about in an attempt to eliminate said threat? ??? Also, if adding tension to a scene is an okay excuse then the same can be said for various scenes in AVPR. Aliens didn't tail-stab because it would drain the tension...
But that's besides the point, there's a saying, "Don't judge a heart-stopping nature of a fight from the comfort of a throne." Aliens aren't Terminators, they don't act perfectly; they're organisms like us with their own instincts and emotions. You can find flaws or careless errors in any fictional or real world fight you examine, and like I said earlier you're picturing a perfect world where things will go according to plan, you're outright ignoring many factors that eliminate your own arguments.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:37:37 AM
QuoteI would definitely like a source for this.
On these forums, when asked.
So, is fan opinion your "source"?
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 12:42:48 AM
Also, if adding tension to a scene is an okay excuse then the same can be said for various scenes in AVPR. Aliens didn't tail-stab because it would drain the tension...
The Aliens never doing anything drained any possible tension. We know Wolf has to live to the end, but if the movie never makes any attempt to make us think he might not -- and it doesn't -- then it's boring to watch. There's no tension, no drama, it's just dude in a suit trouncing dude in a suit.
QuoteSo, is fan opinion your "source"?
No, what Colin Strause said when asked the question is my source.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:54:42 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 12:42:48 AM
Also, if adding tension to a scene is an okay excuse then the same can be said for various scenes in AVPR. Aliens didn't tail-stab because it would drain the tension...
The Aliens never doing anything drained any possible tension. We know Wolf has to live to the end, but if the movie never makes any attempt to make us think he might not -- and it doesn't -- then it's boring to watch. There's no tension, no drama, it's just dude in a suit trouncing dude in a suit.
I actually agree with this, the most obvious mistake AVPR made was only including 1 Predator, this drained much of the tension and made the story more predictable in knowing the Predator wwould live to the finale of the film. As long as I'm in rare stance on commenting on the film's shortcomings, I also felt the film should have announced a victor to the battle as opposed to the tie where Chet and Wolf simultaneously killed each other, though if the Predator won I suppose AVPR wouldn't be my 3rd favorite film in the franchise, so... :-\
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:54:42 AM
QuoteSo, is fan opinion your "source"?
No, what Colin Strause said when asked the question is my source.
Oh, could you please direct me to the post? I would be very interested to know the canonical views of the Strause Bros. :)
I feel like it has improved with age, but not because of it but because of me. When I saw it, I was a dumb teenaged fanboy who paid money to see it in the theater (god, I was 14). I hated it for not meeting my ridiculous expectations. But as the years have gone by, I'm really not that angry at Alien Resurrection or AvP: R. They didn't kill the franchises like I thought they did; if anything, they're stronger than they have been in 20 years, and I can simply ignore them like the regretable mistakes they are, and move on. Hell, I'm not even angry at Prometheus any more.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 06, 2015, 01:04:34 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 06, 2015, 12:54:42 AM
QuoteSo, is fan opinion your "source"?
No, what Colin Strause said when asked the question is my source.
Oh, could you please direct me to the post? I would be very interested to know the canonical views of the Strause Bros. :)
Feel free to have a read: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?board=35.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?board=35.0)
But SiL is quite right. On
every single point he has made.
Lol AVPR is gutter trash.
Yep and it always will be, it is one of the worst films ever, nevermind being the worst film in the franchise :laugh:
There is no "one" mistake, the movie is absolutely filled with them, dialogue, lightning, characters, Alien design, homages and so on. There is more I could say and they are obvious too but we all already know them. :P
The best thing that can be done is a reboot that erases the two films AVP from existence, or at least canon continuity. The first film could have been good though, nice ideas but bad execution among other things.
Well as I said earlier, the EU has always demonstrated the Aliens to be cannon fodder with exception going to only a handful of smarter xenomorphs.
Also regarding Celtic's death, Predators have always been cocky; recall how Pussyface and Mr. Black died in Predator 2 and Predators respectively?
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 11, 2015, 01:17:18 PM
The best thing that can be done is a reboot that erases the two films AVP from existence, or at least canon continuity. The first film could have been good though, nice ideas but bad execution among other things.
I kind of disagree with this mentality.. at least fifty percent since well, I'm kind of this way with PREDATORS. I wouldn't want them necessarily.. "erased" but rather "moved" to a different continuity. Shit if Blomkamp's movie is a different path which moves Alien 3 and Resurrection to an alternate, then the same could be said about the AvP films.
Having that said, I enjoyed both films but I can most definitely do without Requiem. The first movie wasn't that bad, and I would say that it actually tried it's best. I wouldn't want them '"erased" but reassigned as alternates. This gives fans who enjoyed these movies (I recognize we are in the minority) a possibility for a chance for this continuity to be continued-- possibly redeemed, although I think Rebellion's AvP3 did that fine enough.
Just my two cents.
^This, nobody likes it when movies are retconned because fans of those movies will always be hurt. I've been sick and tired of hearing people trying to delegitimization movies solely on the basis that they don't like it, it's okay to hate a movie and pretend it doesn't exist on a personal level but you can't outright say it because ultimately it was made and it does exist no matter how badly we wish it didn't, it's just something fans have to accept rather than deny.
I like it when movies are retconned so to say nobody likes it is wrong. The thing about movies is that whether they're filmed or not, they're still just works of fiction. It comes down to one fictitious timeline vs. another fictitious timeline. It's not like we're telling false news here. Retcon until everything is perfect I say.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 11, 2015, 07:26:56 PM
^This, nobody likes it when movies are retconned because fans of those movies will always be hurt. I've been sick and tired of hearing people trying to delegitimization movies solely on the basis that they don't like it, it's okay to hate a movie and pretend it doesn't exist on a personal level but you can't outright say it because ultimately it was made and it does exist no matter how badly we wish it didn't, it's just something fans have to accept rather than deny.
But what is 'perfect?' Some people might say that that the series was perfect when Alien was the only movie.
Quote from: Born Of Cold Light on Apr 11, 2015, 09:31:33 PM
But what is 'perfect?' Some people might say that that the series was perfect when Alien was the only movie.
I would say that James Cameron's Aliens is a good definition of perfect. Best movie of all time. IMO anyway. No, but seriously, best movie ever.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 11, 2015, 07:26:56 PM
^This, nobody likes it when movies are retconned because fans of those movies will always be hurt. I've been sick and tired of hearing people trying to delegitimization movies solely on the basis that they don't like it, it's okay to hate a movie and pretend it doesn't exist on a personal level but you can't outright say it because ultimately it was made and it does exist no matter how badly we wish it didn't, it's just something fans have to accept rather than deny.
Speak for yourself, a lot of people would like the avp films retconned, while not
everyone does, its not too much of a leap to say the majority would, and I think you presume too much about people's intentions, a lot of people don't shout retcon for simple dislike, maybe some do and I think that would indeed be petty but most would want retcons because of potentially irreversible changes that screws up the continuity, I don't want to see the AVP rebooted because I disliked it (enjoyed the first film somewhat actually because it had good ideas and could have lived up to them if executed right) I want to see them rebooted because from what I see, they messed the continuity and lore up, too much liberties with real life facts as well.
A bad film is one thing, but a bad film that screws everything up is another. I could personally ignore a bad Alien/Predator/AVP film easily, but not one that would have reaching consequences to potentially future films and media, the stuff added in Requiem for example will probably continue in other stories now, AVP films are like a cancer, if not cut out, they will spread. AVP2010 for example was a mediocre game, could have done without the references to AVP which managed to make the first film even more stupid (experimental technology preserved his memories :laugh:)
@Rakai
What is to stop you from watching them if they were retconned? DVDs will always exist, the films just won't belong in a current continuity. Personally I would be glad to see the back of the storyline of AVP films though I would like to see a reboot use the pyramid concept but in a better way, that was a good idea of the first film, I certainly don't want the PA life-cycle to be canon, sadly it is atm. I do agree with you that first film had something, but in many ways that is what made it more of disappointed because it could have been great. I liked the pyramid idea and sacrifice concept, all the film needed was to get basic real life facts right, good character development, normal speed life-cycle and better looking and acting Predators, also bio-mechanical Aliens...that was really cheap of fox to re-use costumes used for the genetic drones. Fights should have been better too, it came of looking like a bad wrestling match or a catfight :laugh: Two cents noted and pocketed, I am a bit richer now. ;D
That's the thing about fans and continuity, if the AVP films were successful then nobody would he complaining about it; Prometheus has various continuity errors with both Alien and AVP but we never hear people talk about them as much as AVP. When fans want something retconned, it's never because of continuity and always because "I just don't like it".
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 12, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
What is to stop you from watching them if they were retconned? DVDs will always exist, the films just won't belong in a current continuity.
Sure all of that stuff will exist, but I want a continuity that doesn't take account of the schlock which was PREDATORS and Prometheus. I want the old stuff to be continued. I mean for God's sake, if Blomkamp's movie is going to be a divergent timeline which just ignores Alien 3 and Resurrection but doesn't retcon them.. we've got alternate timelines. I want alternatives, I don't want something that's black and white. Simply put... I DON'T want to feel left out from something I am passionate about because it opted to go in a direction I simply disagree with. Give us alternatives.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
That's the thing about fans and continuity, if the AVP films were successful then nobody would he complaining about it; Prometheus has various continuity errors with both Alien and AVP but we never hear people talk about them as much as AVP. When fans want something retconned, it's never because of continuity and always because "I just don't like it".
This is true for ALL fans of ALL franchises. I mean I absolutely detest PREDATORS and as a Predator fan, I felt as if the movie didn't understand the first two movies and had changed the aspect of the hunt while introducing a type of Predator which I felt under-minded the original concept which was monstrous to begin with. It introduced changes and additions which I didn't like. I hate the movie, I wish it had never been made but I can't change the fact that it was made and over-time accepted it's existence but I groan each time I see small things from that movie in newer material (I'm looking at you Fire and Stone).
But retconning never really pleases everyone. I mean look at the Blomkamp movie, it's presumably going to be either a retcon or an alternate timeline and some people aren't happy with the idea that Alien 3 and Resurrection are potentially getting the axe (assuming the movie is going to be a full on retcon and not an alternate timeline). Shit, if someone had come along and said that PREDATORS was going to be retconned... how do you think THOSE fans would feel? Not very happy. Would it be fair? No.
Everyone has a movie in series they want retconned because they hate it. No excuses.
Yeah that emphasizes my earlier point that whenever something is retconned, it's always going to hurt at least one somebody.
There really isn't much of a difference between a retcon and an alternate timeline.
I'm a casual Predator fan and I didn't dislike Predators. Not sure what the big issue was there, but not willing to invest the time and energy required to care either.
The Alien series on the other hand I am passionate about and while I enjoy Alien 3 and A:R I will be glad to retcon them for an even better story.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 12, 2015, 06:13:26 PM
I'm a casual Predator fan and I didn't dislike Predators.
I'm a passionate Predator fan and I disliked the movie. But I won't delve into why I disliked it as I explained why on another section on the forum.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 12, 2015, 06:13:26 PM
The Alien series on the other hand I am passionate about and while I enjoy Alien 3 and A:R I will be glad to retcon them for an even better story.
The Alien series, I am a casual fan of. I don't really care for it as I do with the Predator franchise but I do like it enough to actually respect it. A lot of people expressed a disliking for Alien 3 and Resurrection. Now, I felt as if Alien 3 had redeemed itself with the Assembly Cut. But some folks out there are all about "Hiiiicccks and Nooooooot!" and didn't like the way Alien 3 went. I thought it was fine. Resurrection... I need to re-watch again. But my DVDs are in storage so, I can't..
But there are fans out there who like the continuity as it is or.. what used to be. I mean if the Blomkamp movie is fine, great but there are folks out there who have stated they will be disappointed about the change.. regardless of the quality of the movie.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 12, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
But some folks out there are all about "Hiiiicccks and Nooooooot!" and didn't like the way Alien 3 went. I thought it was fine. Resurrection... I need to re-watch again. But my DVDs are in storage so, I can't..
I'd probably be one of those people :P, I understand why other people think their deaths helped emphasize how desolate and uncaring the Alien universe is but I felt it lessened the impact of Aliens. The 2nd film was all about finding humanity and redemption in an uncaring world, Newt being the ultimate prize in finding love in such a hostile environment, and to take that away essentially destroyed the very thematic pillars whose symbolism built the success of James Cameron's masterpiece.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
That's the thing about fans and continuity, if the AVP films were successful then nobody would he complaining about it
If they were successful it would be because they were different, better movies to what we got in the real world.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2015, 06:16:47 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
That's the thing about fans and continuity, if the AVP films were successful then nobody would he complaining about it
If they were successful it would be because they were different, better movies to what we got in the real world.
Possibly, but when fans say they don't want something canon just because it failed their own personal popularity contest whether it's Alien 3 or AVP then those standards just sound so pathetically vain. (No offense intended) There are some films in the franchise I'd rather be eliminated from continuity, but I believe in higher standards than my own personal wants and wishes.
AvPR gave enough canon-shitting ridiculousness that people just use all of the stupid canon-shitting ridiculousness to back up their not liking the movie and not wanting to have to acknowledge it, though.
This amuses me actually - because of the hypocrisy with the Alien 3 retcon.
It's nothing to do with the AvP's not being popular. It's too do with them being bad films. Simple as. They would have been more successful if they were good. There's no other way around it.
People will enjoy them. Different tastes and all that. I love found footage films but I'm not obviousness to the fact that most of them are simply terrible. Doesn't stop me enjoying them though but I know they're bad.
I'm against removing films from continuity though. What I'd rather is are these "inventive sequels" like Shane Black talks about. I'd like to see the AvPs go forward with a Predators style film where they simply don't acknowledge the previous films. They just do their own thing without contradicting what came before it.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 13, 2015, 11:22:16 AM
I'm against removing films from continuity though. What I'd rather is are these "inventive sequels" like Shane Black talks about. I'd like to see the AvPs go forward with a Predators style film where they simply don't acknowledge the previous films. They just do their own thing without contradicting what came before it.
Didn't you acknowledge this somewhat in your PREDATORS review back in 2010? I mean, as far as the Predator side of the franchises go as far as continuity is concerned... the AvP films could still exist. As far as the Alien side of things...
Weeeeeeeeell, a movie with philosophical bull called Prometheus tends to get in the way.
Acknowledge what?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 13, 2015, 03:13:18 PM
Acknowledge what?
That PREDATORS doesn't acknowledge the AvP films, but doesn't necessarily contradict them out of continuity.
Although acknowledging them could be argued since the idea of Predators hunting in three's, the Enemy of my Enemy line, Thermal Footprint Image, and the Sat-com came from AvP.
Not all of those examples are directly taken from AVP. Like the Three Predators hunting. IIRC that idea was from the first draft of the original PREDATOR script by the Thomas brothers.
While the ' Enemy of my Enemy' is an old adage used way before AVP came out.
All that aside I think the Sat-Com was just a lazy rehash from Resident Evil's Hive map. Probably used by Anderson, for people with short attention spans. Who can't be bothered to pay attention to the story long enough, without being confused as too who's where.
I currently can't think of any reference prior to AVP that had the Pred's use a foot print imaging vision. So that one maybe true.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Apr 13, 2015, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 13, 2015, 03:13:18 PM
Acknowledge what?
That PREDATORS doesn't acknowledge the AvP films, but doesn't necessarily contradict them out of continuity.
I did. And I never had a problem with it back then nor do I have a problem with it being used to go forward to sidestep those films that aren't liked.
I don't think I have a problem either, it's okay to do it since there are different protagonists for each story.
Quote from: predxeno on Apr 12, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
That's the thing about fans and continuity, if the AVP films were successful then nobody would he complaining about it; Prometheus has various continuity errors with both Alien and AVP but we never hear people talk about them as much as AVP. When fans want something retconned, it's never because of continuity and always because "I just don't like it".
As I said PredXeno, speak for yourself, not the community. its
not about
dislike or like, its about how they messed up the lore. The AVP films could have been given four or five stars and had awesome character development, script and blablabla, but I would still call for a retcon if it still screwed up continuity like it did. I never wanted Alien 3 retconned and that was not exactly the best film, but other than the "magic egg", it didn't mess with continuity too much, expanded upon it sure, but it didn't really mess with previously established stuff. Alien: Resurrection went too far with its silliness, so that is the only reason I am tolerating this supposed retcon of Alien 3, because without Resurrection, the Alien series can go back to that dark and gritty tone.
I actually hear a lot of people complain about Prometheus, almost if not equal to the AVP films. Our very own member and fellow admin of Xenopedia dislikes Prometheus because of way it was done, and I agree, it would have been more consistent if they stuck with the original script albeit with a few tweaks. It didn't help that there was too much expectation of Prometheus, meaning it left a more bitter taste that even Requiem because after the first AVP, not many would have had hope for the sequel but a Ridley Scott directed "prequel" did cause hype. At first I though Prometheus was ok-ish but I more of critical of it these days, especially after reading the original script, characterization was a bit bad in the script but it was more consistent anf featured new creatures that didn't contradict previous lore, they were Xenomorphs exactly but were similar, they were another variant of their bio-weapons. I would choose the script version over the film anyday.
Quote
Sure all of that stuff will exist, but I want a continuity that doesn't take account of the schlock which was PREDATORS and Prometheus. I want the old stuff to be continued. I mean for God's sake, if Blomkamp's movie is going to be a divergent timeline which just ignores Alien 3 and Resurrection but doesn't retcon them.. we've got alternate timelines. I want alternatives, I don't want something that's black and white. Simply put... I DON'T want to feel left out from something I am passionate about because it opted to go in a direction I simply disagree with. Give us alternatives.
That is fair enough, two timeline sounds reasonable and workable but I personally would definitely prefer the one without Resurrection, that film was too far fetched for my taste and flies in the face of giger and the previous tone of the Alien series. Comic-book villians complete with a damn super-hero.....yes this is what Aliens is all about ::) :laugh:
I can imangine the next film after Resurrection, the now blatent evil Lex luther, sorry I mean the company finds the derelict and gets eggs and kidnaps people again because they now so obviously evil, now Superman, sorry Ripley 8 comes along somehow, and stops them and saves the day. Yes I am looking forward to any film following Resurrection. :P
QuoteBut retconning never really pleases everyone. I mean look at the Blomkamp movie, it's presumably going to be either a retcon or an alternate timeline and some people aren't happy with the idea that Alien 3 and Resurrection are potentially getting the axe (assuming the movie is going to be a full on retcon and not an alternate timeline). Shit, if someone had come along and said that PREDATORS was going to be retconned... how do you think THOSE fans would feel? Not very happy. Would it be fair? No.
Everyone has a movie in series they want retconned because they hate it. No excuses.
Speak for yourself, no excuses.
Predators didn't screw up continuity though, (Isabelle did say a different country to val verda) it added to it i.e super-predators but was a complete rehash of the first film with little originality. You two keep saying people want retcon just for simple dislike but that is not the case, I can't speak for everyone but its usually because of the potentially irreversible changes that screws things up, a bad film that is just a bad film doesn't ruin things as sequesl can redeem the franchise but when a bad film or
any film in fact, screws with continuity and established lore, the changes affect future films, games and comics. Fire and Stone was a well put references as it is a good example how things go wrong, the comic itself it not too bad, just kind of weird and waste of potential, most of the characters were wasted or
Spoiler
killed off screen
. I will have to read it again too get the gist but I remember it being unsatisfactory.
At the end of the day, its not up to us, sure we are fans and think the world of this franchise but said franchise is not ours and never will be so people should stop acting like they are getting their favorite toys stolen from them due to a possible retcon, I wasn't pleased with it either but I tolerate it because its a chance to go back to the realistic tone that was the first three films. I may like to see AVP retconned and it probably would happen too but if it wasn't I could just tolerate their presence like I always do but it does feel they are doing more harm by sitting the continuity because they are currently canon.
Quote
It's nothing to do with the AvP's not being popular. It's too do with them being bad films. Simple as. They would have been more successful if they were good. There's no other way around it.
I can't argue that some people would think that, of course some would, I myself may have liked a better version of it too but if the continuity errors are still there, I would still like a reboot, different people, different tastes but I think the continuity errors furthers the hate, just think about it, when people complain about the AVP films, they are not simply saying cardboard characters and bad scripts are they? they also mentions things like sped up life-cycles and the Chet's lifecycle and so on, some even mention the real life facts concerning colorado and antartica.
Anyway, we all entitled to our opinions on the matter so I will leave it at that but to get back on topic, no I don't think AVP-R has gone better with age or will ever be, its not like a cult classic, its not even a guilty pleasure, its just...bad and its an embrassment for the franchise, especially the Alien side, since they got reduced to cannon fodder, mind you the reverse happened in the first film but at least there an explanation there, young stupid predators.
They turned a sci-fi horror franchise with interesting elements into a cheap slasher, I didn't think it was possible until I made the mistake of seeing the film in theatres.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 12, 2015, 06:13:26 PMThe Alien series on the other hand I am passionate about and while I enjoy Alien 3 and A:R I will be glad to retcon them for an even better story.
Which is assuming any new film will actually
be a better story. Which, to be honest, given some of the stupid concept art we saw (I'm looking at you, Ripley in a dumb Alien suit), is quite a big assumption.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 23, 2015, 03:24:10 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Apr 12, 2015, 06:13:26 PMThe Alien series on the other hand I am passionate about and while I enjoy Alien 3 and A:R I will be glad to retcon them for an even better story.
Which is assuming any new film will actually be a better story. Which, to be honest, given some of the stupid concept art we saw (I'm looking at you, Ripley in a dumb Alien suit), is quite a big assumption.
Ripley in an Alien suit is dumb AND dumber. Ooooh, maybe the Aliens won't notice its me.. Ridonculous any way you cut that cheese. The rest of the art has some great ideas...
Not that it would ever happen but I'd like to see a new version of this film with the deleted sequences featuring the Kendra character and without the darkness filter. I happened to watch the old population trailer again the other day for giggles and its nice to actually be able to see what is going on.
The aliens in this film are pretty much unsalvageable. But the Predator at least has a couple of moments worthy of P1 and P2. Standout moment for me is Wolf in the forest where he kills Ray. The camouflage activation, the eye flash and the P1 sound effect of the wrist blades coming out mixed with the classic Pred vision makes that one scene pretty much perfect. I just wish Wolf's wrist blades were visible when he actually impales Ray, as they were with Dillon.
But there is nothing like this moment in the first AVP film. Nothing at all. Just complete butchery. Anderson must look back at this film and see the Predators and wonder just what the hell he was thinking.
QuoteRipley in an Alien suit is dumb AND dumber. Ooooh, maybe the Aliens won't notice its me.. Ridonculous any way you cut that cheese.
I doubt that's her reason for wearing it. The words pilot space jockey are visible on the art piece. She's probably using the suit's biomechanical properties to interface with the derelict, or something like that.
Also, the finalized version could look very different from the concept art.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Apr 24, 2015, 03:27:28 AMI doubt that's her reason for wearing it. The words pilot space jockey are visible on the art piece. She's probably using the suit's biomechanical properties to interface with the derelict, or something like that.
It doesn't matter why she wearing it. It looks stupid.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2015, 07:55:44 AM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Apr 24, 2015, 03:27:28 AMI doubt that's her reason for wearing it. The words pilot space jockey are visible on the art piece. She's probably using the suit's biomechanical properties to interface with the derelict, or something like that.
It doesn't matter why she wearing it. It looks stupid.
Really depends on the design. I like the concept but that design is a bit hockey.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 24, 2015, 08:01:51 AMReally depends on the design. I like the concept but that design is a bit hockey.
Maybe it just reminds me of that equally daft bit in
AVP where Lex straps bits of Alien to herself and is suddenly able to take a Queen on in a fight.
Well we're totally OT, but I think I would be ok with Ripley donning some suit that makes her interface with the Derelict. Just as long as that suit does not entail headgear that looks like an Alien. That's the hokey part. I mean the Engineers wear gear that only covers their bodies. In fact it looks like it is fused at the neck with their bodies. That's good enough. The headgear makes Ripley look like an evil Teletubbie.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 23, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
But there is nothing like this moment in the first AVP film. Nothing at all. Just complete butchery. Anderson must look back at this film and see the Predators and wonder just what the hell he was thinking.
Considering the fact that he's still directing the Resident Evil movies, I doubt it. :-\
Heh, I'm sure he'll do the same for resident evil too. But at least capcom have the good sense to distance themselves from these seemingly neverending piles of tripe. They've repeatedly shot down Anderson and Milla jovovich's attempts to put Alice in one of the games, thank the Lord.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 24, 2015, 10:50:32 PM
Heh, I'm sure he'll do the same for resident evil too. But at least capcom have the good sense to distance themselves from these seemingly neverending piles of tripe. They've repeatedly shot down Anderson and Milla jovovich's attempts to put Alice in one of the games, thank the Lord.
Its like they want shit directors to direct AVP movies
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 24, 2015, 08:01:51 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 24, 2015, 07:55:44 AM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Apr 24, 2015, 03:27:28 AMI doubt that's her reason for wearing it. The words pilot space jockey are visible on the art piece. She's probably using the suit's biomechanical properties to interface with the derelict, or something like that.
It doesn't matter why she wearing it. It looks stupid.
Really depends on the design. I like the concept but that design is a bit hockey.
It doesn't really depend on the design but rather on the why and the execution...
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jul 24, 2015, 07:09:34 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 24, 2015, 10:50:32 PM
Heh, I'm sure he'll do the same for resident evil too. But at least capcom have the good sense to distance themselves from these seemingly neverending piles of tripe. They've repeatedly shot down Anderson and Milla jovovich's attempts to put Alice in one of the games, thank the Lord.
Its like they want shit directors to direct AVP movies
Nah, it's just a franchise Fox/producers have enough faith in to greenlight them but not enough to give it a bigger budget and better writers, actors and directors. The originals are long gone, and sadly that means minimal risk, maximum profit strategies for studio's.
Neil Blomkamp on the next Alien is a gamble, mainly fueled by fan response and the fact that it coordinated with Scott.
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jul 30, 2015, 11:44:47 AM
It doesn't really depend on the design but rather on the why and the execution...
Granted. But the design is still a huge factor in pulling it off and if it looks poor then that's just a pillar that isn't supporting the concept properly.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 23, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
But there is nothing like this moment in the first AVP film. Nothing at all. Just complete butchery. Anderson must look back at this film and see the Predators and wonder just what the hell he was thinking.
I was disappointed by both movies...but AvP disappointed me more. I had huge expectations
Quote from: happypred on Jul 30, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Apr 23, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
But there is nothing like this moment in the first AVP film. Nothing at all. Just complete butchery. Anderson must look back at this film and see the Predators and wonder just what the hell he was thinking.
I was disappointed by both movies...but AvP disappointed me more. I had huge expectations
Never get hyped (cough alien 5 cough)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 30, 2015, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: skull-splitter on Jul 30, 2015, 11:44:47 AM
It doesn't really depend on the design but rather on the why and the execution...
Granted. But the design is still a huge factor in pulling it off and if it looks poor then that's just a pillar that isn't supporting the concept properly.
Oh sure. But that art we've seen could be explained in about 4 different and plausible ways without knowing anything on the plot...
It's on Sci-Fi channel right now. And it's been a few years since i last saw the movie. And yeha, it's still a bad movie lol.
1. Is the soundtrack and sound design on the predator and Aliens. It's a great mix of Alien mixes and Predator mixes. I can't argue against the soundtrack of the movie, Nor can i on the sound. The Aliens Sound awesome
2. The use of practical effects and costumes for the aliens. Nowdays is all CGI. But the close-ups of the Aliens and whatnot and the Predator are all good..
The movie is still just a pop-corn flick to watch with a couple of friends and beer. It's still just a shit stain on the series All the characters are boring and so generic and stock. The way the movie looks is bad though it looks like one of these shitty Sci-fi channel movies you get. And mhy gawd, the Pred-Alien Reproduction is f**king horrible :/
That clickbait title getting my hate engines all fired up for no reason
Yes, yes it is bad.
QuoteNor can i on the sound. The Aliens Sound awesome
its was just reused sounds from aliens
QuoteThe use of practical effects and costumes for the aliens. Nowdays is all CGI. But the close-ups of the Aliens and whatnot and the Predator are all good..
...what? the alien suits were utter dogshit. there was nothing of value in them. ADI should be ashamed of the work they did for those alien attempts, especially the predalien thing. Compared to the other movie work they've done it felt lazy and amateurish, something I'd expect for a syfy original budget movie.
The only thing I can possibly say that wasn't trash from the movie was the predator design. He LOOKED alright. i cant think of anything else from that entire failure at a movie that is worth any value.
Quote from: King geedorah on Aug 06, 2015, 08:51:10 PM
QuoteNor can i on the sound. The Aliens Sound awesome
its was just reused sounds from aliens
QuoteThe use of practical effects and costumes for the aliens. Nowdays is all CGI. But the close-ups of the Aliens and whatnot and the Predator are all good..
...what? the alien suits were utter dogshit. there was nothing of value in them. ADI should be ashamed of the work they did for those alien attempts, especially the predalien thing. Compared to the other movie work they've done it felt lazy and amateurish, something I'd expect for a syfy original budget movie.
The only thing I can possibly say that wasn't trash from the movie was the predator design. He LOOKED alright. i cant think of anything else from that entire failure at a movie that is worth any value.
Nah, The Alien suits and the sound on the Aliens is pretty good. And sure, they re-used the Alien Sounds. But is that a bad thing? That's a good thing. They added some new sounds anyway. Predator Design is good also. The movie may be wank, but the Creature designs and sounds are awesome.
First one is okay, Flawed. But okay.
Second one is just f**king trash.
No. In fact, it seems worse as you get older. :laugh:
The neck design and the over-bite for the Alien ruins those suits in my opinion.
The alien designs were about as far away as you could get from the original Giger design and still have it look like an Alien.
Didn't mind the Predator design so much, but Smiley the Alien here deserves a bitch slap:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klownsasesinos.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2Favpr7.jpg&hash=58e9a75f90521387d052826e51a50ec27438adf1)
The Aliens were generally terrible.
-Windebieste.
It was nice to go back to something ridge-like though. If only as a chance of pace. But otherwise, yeah, completely agree.
AVP:R is genuinely one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
The only credit I'll give it is that the Predator looked pretty good. Far better design than in the previous movie (not hard). In every other way, the film was a steaming pile.
I don't mind the heads. What ruined them was the lack of jaw tendons.
The suits were recycled. There wasn't the budget to make more than the heads.
Thick neck. Ugly as foook.
Pred was good.
Waste of film. Why oh why must this series be treated like an orphan?
Why do we need two threads right now solely about AvP-R's poor quality.
Before someone gets snarky, we don't. Should be merged.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=52640.0
I didn't know this but. After playing AVP3 and then watching AVPR i realized that the taunt sound for the Alien in AVP3 is taken from AVPR.
Quote from: Randomizer on Aug 07, 2015, 06:46:30 AM
No. In fact, it seems worse as you get older. :laugh:
Some movies can get better with age though. Alien 3 i suppose is a good example.
Quote from: Guts on Aug 08, 2015, 10:22:49 AM
Quote from: Randomizer on Aug 07, 2015, 06:46:30 AM
No. In fact, it seems worse as you get older. :laugh:
Some movies can get better with age though. Alien 3 i suppose is a good example.
That's only because the real struggles that Fincher faced on set came to light. I'd say it's more an understanding.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Aug 07, 2015, 11:23:17 AM
I don't mind the heads. What ruined them was the lack of jaw tendons.
It really does give them a goofy grin. Especially in side profile shots like this picture -
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klownsasesinos.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2Favpr7.jpg&hash=58e9a75f90521387d052826e51a50ec27438adf1)
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Aug 07, 2015, 09:28:21 PM
Why do we need two threads right now solely about AvP-R's poor quality.
Before someone gets snarky, we don't. Should be merged.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=52640.0
All done. :)
Re-watched both movies recently...
AvP-R will always be a fun, sometimes funny B-movie to me. AvP has better production value but is too PG-13 (and the quiet romance between Scar and Lex is too cringey)
When I first saw AVPR, I... loved it. It was a fun romp, a high-budget fan film. Silly and entertaining. I know that as a movie, it's worse than any of the main Alien movies, but it's better than AVP and a fun movie in general. If it was "Space Monster X vs Cosmic Hunter", it'd be a cult movie by now.
When I watched it a couple of days ago, I didn't love it, but still liked it. It's the opposite of A3 or A:R. The first one I thought, at first, was kinda boring, but now is number 2 on my list. A:R I just like. It's a good space adventure movie that happens to have Aliens in it. As for AVPR, now I see its issues more clearly, but I still think it's just fun. It's fast-paced, it has a couple of cool characters (I like the sheriff and the older brother), Predator stuff is still awesome, cinematography is great (let's forget about the messed up print that was used as a basis for Blu-ray/DVD; the shots themselves, the sets etc. are gorgeous).
I really don't know why people hate this movie so much. I mean, the first AVP has WAY worse dialogue, way less entertaining characters, pacing is off, is way more cliched, slower, more boring, predators look like crap, it overuses the CGI, and has less memorable scenes - and yet, people seem to like it more. Yeah, AVPR has a scene where a pizza boy doesn't want to wear a cap, but then, Alien has a scene were a goofy mechanic gripes about not getting a bonus. Alien saga wasn't always about tough space marines.
In fact, I think Cameron's movie, while still very good, is the weakest of the original trilogy. It's the entry that has aged the most, that made Aliens bugs, that has the weakest ending with Ripley suddenly becoming an action heroine and doing impossible feats. For me, Cameron's film missed the point of the Alien entirely. It domesticated a beast that was completely strange. It allowed us to understand how it works and thinks. It's just a monster movie. A great one, but still - just a monster movie. Alien was so much more. It introduced for the first time a realistic take on the alien beings - creatures beyond our understanding. Cameron changed them into very, very angry ants. And people somehow still favour his movie!
I think that's why AVPR is hated so much: viewers wanted another clone of Aliens, but they've got a mix of Alien and Aliens with a sprinkle of cheesy monster flick. I accept it for what it is. It was made to be like that, unlike AVP, which is unintentionally cheesy and stupid, because Anderson is a hack director without taste. That's why I still like AVPR. It's what it was back then, while AVP with every passing year looks even more embarassing.
Quote from: esz on Dec 31, 2015, 07:38:08 AM
When I first saw AVPR, I... loved it. It was a fun romp, a high-budget fan film. Silly and entertaining. I know that as a movie, it's worse than any of the main Alien movies, but it's better than AVP and a fun movie in general. If it was "Space Monster X vs Cosmic Hunter", it'd be a cult movie by now.
When I watched it a couple of days ago, I didn't love it, but still liked it. It's the opposite of A3 or A:R. The first one I thought, at first, was kinda boring, but now is number 2 on my list. A:R I just like. It's a good space adventure movie that happens to have Aliens in it. As for AVPR, now I see its issues more clearly, but I still think it's just fun. It's fast-paced, it has a couple of cool characters (I like the sheriff and the older brother), Predator stuff is still awesome, cinematography is great (let's forget about the messed up print that was used as a basis for Blu-ray/DVD; the shots themselves, the sets etc. are gorgeous).
I really don't know why people hate this movie so much. I mean, the first AVP has WAY worse dialogue, way less entertaining characters, pacing is off, is way more cliched, slower, more boring, predators look like crap, it overuses the CGI, and has less memorable scenes - and yet, people seem to like it more. Yeah, AVPR has a scene where a pizza boy doesn't want to wear a cap, but then, Alien has a scene were a goofy mechanic gripes about not getting a bonus. Alien saga wasn't always about tough space marines.
In fact, I think Cameron's movie, while still very good, is the weakest of the original trilogy. It's the entry that has aged the most, that made Aliens bugs, that has the weakest ending with Ripley suddenly becoming an action heroine and doing impossible feats. For me, Cameron's film missed the point of the Alien entirely. It domesticated a beast that was completely strange. It allowed us to understand how it works and thinks. It's just a monster movie. A great one, but still - just a monster movie. Alien was so much more. It introduced for the first time a realistic take on the alien beings - creatures beyond our understanding. Cameron changed them into very, very angry ants. And people somehow still favour his movie!
I think that's why AVPR is hated so much: viewers wanted another clone of Aliens, but they've got a mix of Alien and Aliens with a sprinkle of cheesy monster flick. I accept it for what it is. It was made to be like that, unlike AVP, which is unintentionally cheesy and stupid, because Anderson is a hack director without taste. That's why I still like AVPR. It's what it was back then, while AVP with every passing year looks even more embarassing.
Respectfully, I can't agree with any of this. I'll explain later...
Quote from: esz on Dec 31, 2015, 07:38:08 AM
I think that's why AVPR is hated so much: viewers wanted another clone of Aliens
This is trotted out all the time whenever someone has an outlier opinion and, no, it's not true.
Quote from: esz on Dec 31, 2015, 07:38:08 AM
When I first saw AVPR, I... loved it. It was a fun romp, a high-budget fan film. Silly and entertaining. I know that as a movie, it's worse than any of the main Alien movies, but it's better than AVP and a fun movie in general. If it was "Space Monster X vs Cosmic Hunter", it'd be a cult movie by now.
When I watched it a couple of days ago, I didn't love it, but still liked it. It's the opposite of A3 or A:R. The first one I thought, at first, was kinda boring, but now is number 2 on my list. A:R I just like. It's a good space adventure movie that happens to have Aliens in it. As for AVPR, now I see its issues more clearly, but I still think it's just fun. It's fast-paced, it has a couple of cool characters (I like the sheriff and the older brother), Predator stuff is still awesome, cinematography is great (let's forget about the messed up print that was used as a basis for Blu-ray/DVD; the shots themselves, the sets etc. are gorgeous).
I really don't know why people hate this movie so much. I mean, the first AVP has WAY worse dialogue, way less entertaining characters, pacing is off, is way more cliched, slower, more boring, predators look like crap, it overuses the CGI, and has less memorable scenes - and yet, people seem to like it more. Yeah, AVPR has a scene where a pizza boy doesn't want to wear a cap, but then, Alien has a scene were a goofy mechanic gripes about not getting a bonus. Alien saga wasn't always about tough space marines.
In fact, I think Cameron's movie, while still very good, is the weakest of the original trilogy. It's the entry that has aged the most, that made Aliens bugs, that has the weakest ending with Ripley suddenly becoming an action heroine and doing impossible feats. For me, Cameron's film missed the point of the Alien entirely. It domesticated a beast that was completely strange. It allowed us to understand how it works and thinks. It's just a monster movie. A great one, but still - just a monster movie. Alien was so much more. It introduced for the first time a realistic take on the alien beings - creatures beyond our understanding. Cameron changed them into very, very angry ants. And people somehow still favour his movie!
I think that's why AVPR is hated so much: viewers wanted another clone of Aliens, but they've got a mix of Alien and Aliens with a sprinkle of cheesy monster flick. I accept it for what it is. It was made to be like that, unlike AVP, which is unintentionally cheesy and stupid, because Anderson is a hack director without taste. That's why I still like AVPR. It's what it was back then, while AVP with every passing year looks even more embarassing.
This is a good example of how subjective movies are. There is no movie hated universally or loved altogether. AvPR is a terrible movie and aliens is an amazing movie by my standards, our taste in films appear to be the complete opposite. I think alien is the best in the series but everyone I show it to gets too bored to finish it, that amsazes me lol
Anyway I don't think this movie could age well, I watched it in theaters once and never again though. The only thing in liked was the predator, much better then avp. Then once again you see his face, which again, pails in comparison to stans work decades earlier. The aliens were all bad, especially the pred alien.
I barely got half way through and never again will I see the movie. The Alien saga really was supposed to be a dark, suspenseful monster from outer space crawling through your vents. The predator series were meant to be fast paced action. AvP:R turned it into a cheap slasher film, with shock scenes that most people would have seen as crossing the line: exploding pregnant women, nursery, the kid at the beginning of the movie. Wolf could've been made to seem smarter as well: like not skinning the police man and hanging him in a tree, knowing he didn't have much time before the town was completely infested.
Granted, this is only half of the film, and its been a long time since I've seen it, but I just can't bring myself to watch it again. Yeah, AvP wasn't a particularly great film, but I can watch it and not get disgusted. And Aliens, that's just a fun film to watch, and I think Cameron did a good job- even if he does depend heavily on overused tropes, he executes well.
QuoteI really don't know why people hate this movie so much. I mean, the first AVP has WAY worse dialogue, way less entertaining characters, pacing is off, is way more cliched, slower, more boring, predators look like crap, it overuses the CGI, and has less memorable scenes - and yet, people seem to like it more. Yeah, AVPR has a scene where a pizza boy doesn't want to wear a cap, but then, Alien has a scene were a goofy mechanic gripes about not getting a bonus. Alien saga wasn't always about tough space marines.
I'm still a fan of AVPR as when I first saw it Christmas 2007, I also know that there are a lot of other AVPR fans as well but most of them are closet-fans and choose to not voice their love of the film for fear of public opinion.
QuoteIn fact, I think Cameron's movie, while still very good, is the weakest of the original trilogy. It's the entry that has aged the most, that made Aliens bugs, that has the weakest ending with Ripley suddenly becoming an action heroine and doing impossible feats. For me, Cameron's film missed the point of the Alien entirely. It domesticated a beast that was completely strange. It allowed us to understand how it works and thinks. It's just a monster movie. A great one, but still - just a monster movie. Alien was so much more. It introduced for the first time a realistic take on the alien beings - creatures beyond our understanding. Cameron changed them into very, very angry ants. And people somehow still favour his movie!
Aliens is actually my favorite film of the series but I understand your point, I feel exactly the same way with Alien and Prometheus.
QuoteI barely got half way through and never again will I see the movie. The Alien saga really was supposed to be a dark, suspenseful monster from outer space crawling through your vents. The predator series were meant to be fast paced action. AvP:R turned it into a cheap slasher film, with shock scenes that most people would have seen as crossing the line: exploding pregnant women, nursery, the kid at the beginning of the movie.
I understand this point of view but it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the film, it could have been
much worse. I still think this movie did more justice to its series than Jurassic World did to its own; the Strause Bros. at least understood that the film is supposed to be dark and suspenseful and didn't try turn it into a kid-friendly, rainbow-colored, shoot 'em up for kiddies.
QuoteWolf could've been made to seem smarter as well: like not skinning the police man and hanging him in a tree, knowing he didn't have much time before the town was completely infested.
That's a technicality really, if AVPR had been successful then no one would care about that; just look at how people choose to overlook Ripley's decision to open the airlock at the end of Aliens to kick out the Queen despite the fact that she knew neither Newt nor Bishop were pinned down and therefore could easily have been sucked out as well. Btw, Wolf had plenty of time to skin a human and wipe out the infestation; remember, the Aliens were living in the sewers and they weren't going anywhere (at least not until Wolf created a hole into the city above).
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 01:24:36 AM
I'm still a fan of AVPR as when I first saw it Christmas 2007, I also know that there are a lot of other AVPR fans as well but most of them are closet-fans and choose to not voice their love of the film for fear of public opinion.
I like AVP-R. I recognize it's flaws which people hate it for but I still like it.
Quoting that song by Icona Pop: "I DON'T CARE! I LOVE IT!"
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 01:24:36 AM
I understand this point of view but it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the film, it could have been much worse. I still think this movie did more justice to its series than Jurassic World did to its own; the Strause Bros. at least understood that the film is supposed to be dark and suspenseful and didn't try turn it into a kid-friendly, rainbow-colored, shoot 'em up for kiddies.
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Just because the Strause brothers didn't turn the movie into a kid-friendly, rainbow-colored, shoot 'em doesn't mean they understood jackshit about the series. They turned it into a generic, teen slasher film, filled with high-school cliches and completely idiotic and mundane characters. Is any of that what
Alien or
Predator were about? Please.
People "overlook" Ripley's decision to open the airlock because she absolutely had to do it to kill the Queen. Wolf skinning humans added nothing to this film.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 01, 2016, 04:09:44 AM
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Just because the Strause brothers didn't turn the movie into a kid-friendly, rainbow-colored, shoot 'em doesn't mean they understood jackshit about the series. They turned it into a generic, teen slasher film, filled with high-school cliches and completely idiotic and mundane characters. Is any of that what Alien or Predator were about? Please.
Tbh, teen slasher is still better than kid-friendly for a series that replies on terror and suspense; both had their cliches but I guess this is a matter of picking your poison.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 01, 2016, 04:09:44 AM
People "overlook" Ripley's decision to open the airlock because she absolutely had to do it to kill the Queen. Wolf skinning humans added nothing to this film.
Wolf skinning the cop was to further emphasize the presence of Wolf in Gunnison, I believe. As I said before, this is just shallow nitpicking; one could find a million things that didn't add anything to Alien, Aliens, Predator, Prometheus, etc. if they looked hard enough.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 04:14:32 AM
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 01, 2016, 04:09:44 AM
Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Just because the Strause brothers didn't turn the movie into a kid-friendly, rainbow-colored, shoot 'em doesn't mean they understood jackshit about the series. They turned it into a generic, teen slasher film, filled with high-school cliches and completely idiotic and mundane characters. Is any of that what Alien or Predator were about? Please.
Tbh, teen slasher is still better than kid-friendly for a series that replies on terror and suspense; both had their cliches but I guess this is a matter of picking your poison.
Yeah, well, duh. Just because the Strause brothers were "competent" enough to not turn the series kid-friendly doesn't garner them much credit nor should it. Again and again you bring up the notion, "Hey, it could've been worse!" Just because they could've made even more asinine decisions doesn't mean what they did didn't completely neuter the franchise and disrespect its roots, not to mention the audience.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 04:14:32 AM
Wolf skinning the cop was to further emphasize the presence of Wolf in Gunnison, I believe. As I said before, this is just shallow nitpicking; one could find a million things that didn't add anything to Alien, Aliens, Predator, Prometheus, etc. if they looked hard enough.
It isn't shallow nitpicking if it's something you can catch on a first viewing.
Not to mention, ALIEN has an incredibly tight script. ALIENS ain't bad either. I dare you to find anything near the nonsensicality of Wolf's skinning in Gunnison. Otherwise, it's a testament to AvP-R incapability to keep many viewers captivated enough.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 01, 2016, 04:54:49 AM
It isn't shallow nitpicking if it's something you can catch on a first viewing.
Not to mention, ALIEN has an incredibly tight script. ALIENS ain't bad either. I dare you to find anything near the nonsensicality of Wolf's skinning in Gunnison. Otherwise, it's a testament to AvP-R incapability to keep many viewers captivated enough.
What determines "nonsensicality" is opinion more than anything else, but one could easily say that the skinning of the bodies from the first Predator film didn't do anything to advance the script either (a scene AVPR seemed to be copying), the Predator pulling Billy's skull and spine also doesn't add much to the plot either though it does look nice and IMO adds to the tension in the film.
It's nonsensical because he's there to wipe out an Alien infestation. And sure, erase the evidence of the Aliens with your blue liquids, self destruct a crashed Predator ship, kill a witness, but don't skin him and hang him off a tree. Goes against his agenda. Makes the Wolf Predator seem inept, and doesn't add much tension for me when I know he isn't even there to hunt humans, he's on Earth to track down the remaining Aliens.
Happy new year!
Lol, Happy New Year!!! I wouldn't pretend to know Wolf's intentions, but the Aliens were all waiting for him in the sewer so getting there 1 minute sooner wouldn't have changed anything.
Boy, the title of this thread cracks me up every time.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 05:48:00 AM
Lol, Happy New Year!!! I wouldn't pretend to know Wolf's intentions, but the Aliens were all waiting for him in the sewer so getting there 1 minute sooner wouldn't have changed anything.
Wolf's intentions was to stop the infestation and destroy the evidence.
Anytime's intentions was to hunt strong human warriors and take trophies, and have a little fun doing it- skinning humans and scaring the shit out of the other humans.
One mission was completely business, the other was pleasure.
There's Wolf's intention, you're welcome. BTW, it would've taken a lot longer to skin a human than 1 minute.
QuoteBTW, it would've taken a lot longer to skin a human than 1 minute.
I'm just going by scenes and descriptions in other EU like Predator: Concrete Jungle game and various books. As I said earlier, even if it took Wolf 5 minutes to skin 1 human being, the Aliens never moved from the nest so there was no hurry.
In the end, the Aliens never moved from the nest, but how would Wolf know that they wouldn't. Stupid decision to risk making his job much harder by wasting time.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 01, 2016, 05:29:41 AMIt's nonsensical because he's there to wipe out an Alien infestation. And sure, erase the evidence of the Aliens with your blue liquids, self destruct a crashed Predator ship, kill a witness, but don't skin him and hang him off a tree.
This. If his only objective is to stop the Alien infestation before it gets out of control, his stopping and wasting time skinning some guy just for the lulz is completely nonsensical.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 07:55:44 AM
I'm just going by scenes and descriptions in other EU like Predator: Concrete Jungle game and various books. As I said earlier, even if it took Wolf 5 minutes to skin 1 human being, the Aliens never moved from the nest so there was no hurry.
Wolf didn't know they were there yet, let alone that they were going to hang around.
Wolf is an experienced Alien hunter, so he knew the general gist of their tactics and such; just like how Ripley knew to find the Runner hanging around in the prison's basement.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 01, 2016, 08:56:59 PMWolf didn't know they were there yet, let alone that they were going to hang around.
Sure, worry about the potential for the Xenomorphs to spread later, better to have some fun skinning people for a bit before we check or anything.
Jesus just accept it was a stupid "plot" point.
I accept that it took Wolf at most 3 minutes to skin the body and everyone is trying to nitpick the point saying that those 3 minutes could somehow have altered the confrontation in the sewer.
Everyone is saying it was a stupid writing decision and adds absolutely nothing to the movie. No one cares about the logic of the "alien confrontation in the sewer;" this about the logic of an inconsistent character wasting time doing something he wasn't on Earth to do in the first place. HE HAS AN ALIEN INFESTATION TO CLEAN UP.
Liking AvP-R is one thing, but not being able to accept such an obvious mistake on the movie's part? ::)
It's not surprising, fans refuse to accept "obvious mistakes" all the time when it affects the films they like; such as how no one wants to admit that the technology shown in Prometheus is inconsistent with the tech shown in the Alien films.
No one wants to admit the technology shown in Prometheus was inconsistent?
There were at least several threads addressing that issue before Prometheus came out. There are at least two threads I've made myself where that point has been brought up and discussed.
But that doesn't even matter, because I'll definitely admit they've made mistakes with Prometheus (doesn't really support your point because I don't like Prometheus, but yes, I'll admit it).
Look, even if you brought up some plot hole in a film I do like, I believe that if a fan really loves a movie they would accept the mistakes (not defend with drivel ad hoc explanations). Many times, movies can make up for the mistakes, if the material transcends them. Maybe a plot contrivance can be overlooked because the film is trying to say something, make a point.
What point does AvP-R try to make? That the government doesn't lie?
No, AvP-R cannot transcend its mistakes because it is kind of like a movie composed of mistakes.
It bastardizes the Alien series, making the Aliens themselves pathetically weak in regards to fighting a single Predator and the mopey town residents of Gunnison. It insults the audience by turning both great science-fiction series into a B-movie-esque slasher film, tastelessly killing pregnant women for shock value (NO. Believe it or not, gore, killing a kid or killing pregnant women does not equal tension). On the "human side" of the movie, the actors do little to bring any life to already uninteresting characters and uninteresting lines from a terrible script. Yes, because a government would really nuke an entire town. Real smart writing, there! Totally believable motivations and outcome, huh? That aside, it's not even made well on a cinematographic level - the lighting is abhorrent and the suits are probably the great ADI at their absolute worst. The Aliens have a laughable overbite and look cheap as hell. Even Wolf's face looks like a mask from a dollar store. It's title doesn't even make sense, it was chosen to capitalize on its "R" rating. There is like nothing genuine about this movie!
It's like every facet of this movie was made to either shamelessly copy or insult aspects of the Alien and Predator series. AvP-R offers nothing new, nothing interesting, just tired cliches and no, AvP-R will not improve with time, because from basic concept to final execution it is just not good.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 02:19:43 AM
It insults the audience by turning both great science-fiction series into a B-movie-esque slasher film
I'd say a B movie is far too generous.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 02:19:43 AM
No one wants to admit the technology shown in Prometheus was inconsistent?
There were at least several threads addressing that issue before Prometheus came out. There are at least two threads I've made myself where that point has been brought up and discussed.
But that doesn't even matter, because I'll definitely admit they've made mistakes with Prometheus (doesn't really support your point because I don't like Prometheus, but yes, I'll admit it).
Look, even if you brought up some plot hole in a film I do like, I believe that if a fan really loves a movie they would accept the mistakes (not defend with drivel ad hoc explanations). Many times, movies can make up for the mistakes, if the material transcends them. Maybe a plot contrivance can be overlooked because the film is trying to say something, make a point.
What point does AvP-R try to make? That the government doesn't lie?
No, AvP-R cannot transcend its mistakes because it is kind of like a movie composed of mistakes.
It bastardizes the Alien series, making the Aliens themselves pathetically weak in regards to fighting a single Predator and the mopey town residents of Gunnison. It insults the audience by turning both great science-fiction series into a B-movie-esque slasher film, tastelessly killing pregnant women for shock value (NO. Believe it or not, gore, killing a kid or killing pregnant women does not equal tension). On the "human side" of the movie, the actors do little to bring any life to already uninteresting characters and uninteresting lines from a terrible script. Yes, because a government would really nuke an entire town. Real smart writing, there! Totally believable motivations and outcome, huh? That aside, it's not even made well on a cinematographic level - the lighting is abhorrent and the suits are probably the great ADI at their absolute worst. The Aliens have a laughable overbite and look cheap as hell. Even Wolf's face looks like a mask from a dollar store. It's title doesn't even make sense, it was chosen to capitalize on its "R" rating. There is like nothing genuine about this movie!
It's like every facet of this movie was made to either shamelessly copy or insult aspects of the Alien and Predator series. AvP-R offers nothing new, nothing interesting, just tired cliches and no, AvP-R will not improve with time, because from basic concept to final execution it is just not good.
I agree with you mostly. That about sums it up. I do like Prometheus and I find myself overlooking some of its glaring flaws. But AVPR just does not deserve that. About the only thing interesting was the introduction of Ms. Yutani, but that is basically being retconned it seems. The absolute nadir of the film if not the entire series was the attack on the pregnant woman. How I wish I could unsee that...
I'm not defending the movie (though I do enjoy it), I'm just pointing out that trying to make a bigger case out of the whole Predator-skinning-a-human bit is pointless in itself because it is so trivial. Regardless, Wolf came to eradicate the Aliens but a human caught him doing it, so the Predator killed him and then decided that since the human was already did he would skin him as well. Wolf spending a few minutes to skin a corpse is perfectly believable under the circumstances, it's not like he went on a sidetrack and spent hours hunting humans instead of doing his job of eradicating Aliens.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 04:42:22 AM
I'm not defending the movie (though I do enjoy it), I'm just pointing out that trying to make a bigger case out of the whole Predator-skinning-a-human bit is pointless in itself because it is so trivial. Regardless, Wolf came to eradicate the Aliens but a human caught him doing it, so the Predator killed him and then decided that since the human was already did he would skin him as well. Wolf spending a few minutes to skin a corpse is perfectly believable under the circumstances, it's not like he went on a sidetrack and spent hours hunting humans instead of doing his job of eradicating Aliens.
Yeah, maybe Wolf figured he'd get a nice souvenir for his wife..
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 01, 2016, 08:58:01 PM
Wolf is an experienced Alien hunter, so he knew the general gist of their tactics and such; just like how Ripley knew to find the Runner hanging around in the prison's basement.
Ripley knew where the prison "basement" was, Wolf didn't know where the sewer was, or if they were in a cave, or any of a dozen other potential spots.
Wolf skinning the corpse made sense when it was written in the first draft, because he wasn't here to clean up Aliens. Later it was stupid fanservice.
The whole point is moot, as demonstrated earlier, characters do stupid things all the time in movies however if the movie is successful then no one cares but if the movie is a flop then suddenly the critics scream like a gang of banshees.
You haven't demonstrated anything. Name a critically acclaimed Alien or Predator film that has a mistake like the Wolf skinning a human nonsense. You keep defending this again and again but when we prove a point, rather than acknowledge it, you start screaming like a banshee about how all movies have stupid things and only flops get called out for it.
AvP-R wasn't some poor victim in this situation, okay? It gets called out on because it's mistakes are so blatantly clear. Because it's a shit movie. I might as well copy and paste my last response. The one about being able to accept flaws if a movie can transcend those flaws!
Here are a bunch of examples to feast on:
1. In Alien, when Dallas refuses to obey quarantine, no one cares that his stupidity costs almost the entire crew their lives.
2. In Prometheus, nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it.
3. In James Cameron's Avatar, Jake Sully decides that right before an attack on the Na'vi village, he should tell the truth about his deception and betrayal of their people. Right at the time when he needs them to trust him the most, he is convinced telling them he screwed them over is a good idea.
4. In Jurassic World when the I-Rex goes missing, instead of checking the entire cage first, our heroes fall for the oldest trick in the prison escape book and open the cage with the captive still in it.
If the movie is a success then nobody cares about a character's stupidity, if the movie is a flop then everyone suddenly has a voice.
Wow. Just wow. Really?
First off, do you know what critically acclaimed means? You know, to be well received ("acclaimed: to be praised enthusiastically and publicly") by critics (hence "critically")?
I know we are speaking in general terms here, but with so much subjectivity at hand, generality is what is needed to narrow down your strange choices in film to picks that actually fit the bill of what I asked you. Which pretty much leaves us with
ALIEN, because no,
Prometheus was not 'critically acclaimed' and no, not even being a commercial box-office success equals critically acclamation either. Sorry,
Jurassic World. So, regarding
ALIEN, Dallas doesn't obey quarantine because he's panicking about an alien life-form that has just attached to Kane. He was forced to make one decision or another, so he chose the one he saw gave him the best opportunity to
save Kane's life. So, even while being under immense pressure, lest we forget, Dallas made a call he saw fit for the time. There's a followup conversation with Ripley (as well as a followup conversation between Ripley and Ash) that further solidify these points.
No one cares about his "stupidity" because A) that wasn't stupidity, it's actually pretty easy to see how he came to his own decision and B) he did not commit those acts intending to unleash a killer extraterrestrial lifeforms onto the Nostromo, so no, no one is tries to single out that scene for the ensuing carnage (which was more Ash's fault in that scene, anyway).
So no, that really isn't anything like Wolf skinning that human.
But I think you are also misinterpreting what I (and some others) have been saying. No, despite what you seem to think and said under #2
Quote"nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it
we are not bashing a movie, in this case
AvP-R, because of a single plot stupidity, in this case Wolf wasting time to skin a human being during a critical mission. Rather, we're saying that's one of many stupid plot points - hell, it's you constantly defending that detail that has led to this long-winded back on forth on the issue.
Quit it with the selective reading.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM1. In Alien, when Dallas refuses to obey quarantine, no one cares that his stupidity costs almost the entire crew their lives.
Ripley begs to differ.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM2. In Prometheus, nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it.
Literally everyone has complained about how idiotic that was.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM3. In James Cameron's Avatar, Jake Sully decides that right before an attack on the Na'vi village, he should tell the truth about his deception and betrayal of their people. Right at the time when he needs them to trust him the most, he is convinced telling them he screwed them over is a good idea.
It's called coming clean.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM4. In Jurassic World when the I-Rex goes missing, instead of checking the entire cage first, our heroes fall for the oldest trick in the prison escape book and open the cage with the captive still in it.
I've called that film on its stupid moments since it came out.
Has the passing of time been kind enough to improve this movie? That's a good question. So I just watched it to find out and here's my take on it:
This movie is terrible. It has no pace. No style. No rhythm. No sophistication. The story is nothing particularly outstanding. It's characters are lame. The lighting is poor. The Aliens look awful (when you can see them). Wolf is a super antihero who can do no wrong - and that's an oxymoron on its own. Chet the Rastafalien is a joke. There's no satisfying resolution between them before the whole town gets nuked. It's loaded with unnecessary homages to the previous films for no greater benefit. The horror elements are moments of gratuitous bad taste just for the sake of it. The action sequences are a travesty. Why anyone likes this disappointing piece of cinematic junk and thinks it is any good is beyond me.
This movie has no merit. It's garbage. It's inane. It's idiotic. 'ALIEN: Resurrection' is a better movie than this mal-formed and mis-shapen thing - and that's saying something!
It sucks knobs. It always did. It always will.
RATING: 1/10 (It gets a single point for being short as that's the only good thing this movie has to offer.)
-Windebieste.
I can understand if someone likes the movie because they think its sooo bad that its good. In the same way I like crappy horror movies. But I dont understand how anyone could truly consider it have any real quality.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 02, 2016, 10:50:49 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM1. In Alien, when Dallas refuses to obey quarantine, no one cares that his stupidity costs almost the entire crew their lives.
Ripley begs to differ.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM2. In Prometheus, nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it.
Literally everyone has complained about how idiotic that was.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM3. In James Cameron's Avatar, Jake Sully decides that right before an attack on the Na'vi village, he should tell the truth about his deception and betrayal of their people. Right at the time when he needs them to trust him the most, he is convinced telling them he screwed them over is a good idea.
It's called coming clean.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:47:05 AM4. In Jurassic World when the I-Rex goes missing, instead of checking the entire cage first, our heroes fall for the oldest trick in the prison escape book and open the cage with the captive still in it.
I've called that film on its stupid moments since it came out.
You're missing the point, characters do stupid things all the time and regardless if the movie was popular or not, one little technicality isn't sufficient to sink the entire film.
How many times do we have to say that's not the only fault of AvP-R?
I readily acknowledge that AVPR is more indulgent on gore and violence than previous films and that the cast resembles a typical teen slasher flick but I also acknowledge that at best, a one minute scene is at best a subordinate reason to hate the movie and not a primary one. Besides, I know why that scene was included in the film; by the time the Aliens land, they have acided a man's arm off, impregnated 4 people, and Chet ruthlessly killed a helpless homeless woman. As a result, Wolf was given some action sequences of his own where he kills and then skins a human being; this is needed in the film to help balance the amount of screen time Wolf has in comparison to the other stars of the film, the Aliens. If the skin job were to be deleted from the film then the Aliens would have had drastically more focus (on their own actions) then their Predator counterpart which isn't a good idea for a a film titled Aliens vs. Predator where each star deserves its own fair share of action.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 31, 2015, 06:06:29 AM
AvP-R will always be a fun, sometimes funny B-movie to me.
This is exactly what I expect from AvPR every time I see it.
F**k you, I'm not passing you as canon, but at least be a fun movie for once !
Still having trouble getting past that though.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:24:09 PM
Besides, I know why that scene was included in the film; by the time the Aliens land, they have acided a man's arm off, impregnated 4 people, and Chet ruthlessly killed a helpless homeless woman. As a result, Wolf was given some action sequences of his own where he kills and then skins a human being; this is needed in the film to help balance the amount of screen time Wolf has in comparison to the other stars of the film, the Aliens. If the skin job were to be deleted from the film then the Aliens would have had drastically more focus (on their own actions) then their Predator counterpart which isn't a good idea for a a film titled Aliens vs. Predator where each star deserves its own fair share of action.
You sure there wasn't any other way the film could've balanced the focus on the Predator. ::) Poor excuse, and another ad hoc explanation rather than accepting the mistake for what it is. You keep repeating the same thing over and over again, saying that this one minute scene isn't a reason to hate the film. Well, that's not what any of us are saying! You've ignored me saying that's not the film's primary issue at least twice. Once again, selective reading.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 07:58:48 PM
How many times do we have to say that's not the only fault of AvP-R?
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 10:06:48 AM
No, despite what you seem to think and said under #2
Quote"nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it
we are not bashing a movie, in this case AvP-R, because of a single plot stupidity, in this case Wolf wasting time to skin a human being during a critical mission. Rather, we're saying that's one of many stupid plot points - hell, it's you constantly defending that detail that has led to this long-winded back on forth on the issue.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 08:24:09 PM
Besides, I know why that scene was included in the film; by the time the Aliens land, they have acided a man's arm off, impregnated 4 people, and Chet ruthlessly killed a helpless homeless woman. As a result, Wolf was given some action sequences of his own where he kills and then skins a human being; this is needed in the film to help balance the amount of screen time Wolf has in comparison to the other stars of the film, the Aliens. If the skin job were to be deleted from the film then the Aliens would have had drastically more focus (on their own actions) then their Predator counterpart which isn't a good idea for a a film titled Aliens vs. Predator where each star deserves its own fair share of action.
You sure there wasn't any other way the film could've balanced the focus on the Predator. ::) Poor excuse, and another ad hoc explanation rather than accepting the mistake for what it is. You keep repeating the same thing over and over again, saying that this one minute scene isn't a reason to hate the film. Well, that's not what any of us are saying! You've ignored me saying that's not the film's primary issue at least twice. Once again, selective reading.
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 07:58:48 PM
How many times do we have to say that's not the only fault of AvP-R?
Quote from: MrSpaceJockey on Jan 02, 2016, 10:06:48 AM
No, despite what you seem to think and said under #2
Quote"nobody is saying Charlie Holloway's decision to remove his helmet on the planet is stupid enough to bash the whole movie for it
we are not bashing a movie, in this case AvP-R, because of a single plot stupidity, in this case Wolf wasting time to skin a human being during a critical mission. Rather, we're saying that's one of many stupid plot points - hell, it's you constantly defending that detail that has led to this long-winded back on forth on the issue.
Yes, I know that but as I already said before this is hardly a stupid point worth mentioning; had AVPR been more popular, no one would even be bringing it up at all. Furthermore, as you can see from the video below (3:05) it only takes seconds for a Predator to skin a corpse therefore I literally see no problem why Wolf couldn't take a few moments out of his time to collect a souvenir, it took Ripley longer to give Burke a grenade on her way to rescue Newt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjNUeJnZrws&t=3m5s
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 05:47:14 PM
You're missing the point, characters do stupid things all the time and regardless if the movie was popular or not, one little technicality isn't sufficient to sink the entire film.
Nobody has ever, ever said that Wolf skinning the cop brought down all of AvPR.
Then what's the point of even bringing it up? Whenever I hear about it, it literally sounds like petty whining, no offense intended. :-\
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 09:33:02 PM...had AVPR been more popular...
BWAHAHAHAAA!!! That's yer problem right there.
It's not unpopular simply because of a single skinning scene.
That one minute that's under contention is just a passing moment and would be glossed over if the movie was any good. But the surface gloss this movie display is something else. It's the whole movie for its entire running length of its duration that is the problem. It's unpopular in its entirety because the film is one big phat slimy turd of
FAIL!
It's one and a half hours of the Strauss bros. taking a dump on our faces.
This movie is so bad in every way that cinema can be as an Art form and people are concerned about how long it takes a Predator so skin a human..? Really??? OMG! I just watched this atrocity last night and it's worthless. In every possible way. There is nothing to salvage from this rubbish. That single minute was a moment lost in the rest of the pile of excrement that this movie actually is because the remaining one hour and thirty minutes were even worse.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 09:33:02 PM
Yes, I know that but as I already said before this is hardly a stupid point worth mentioning; had AVPR been more popular, no one would even be bringing it up at all. Furthermore, as you can see from the video below (3:05) it only takes seconds for a Predator to skin a corpse therefore I literally see no problem why Wolf couldn't take a few moments out of his time to collect a souvenir, it took Ripley longer to give Burke a grenade on her way to rescue Newt.
You are stubborn and ignorant. For the third and last time, the only reason why the skinning issue is still being talked about is because YOU KEEP DEFENDING IT. If you just
admitted how unnecessary it is, I don't see why people would continue talking about it. They wouldn't. It is a small thing yet you don't even have the
humility to accept the mere presence of this flaw, never mind how minor it is.
I don't care if Wolf could take a few moments out of his time; the point is he didn't need to, it was pandering, an unnecessary callback forcefully plugged in and inconsistent with the rest of the film story-wise and character-wise. Just because you can say it could happen doesn't mean it belongs in the film.
Ripley could've taken a shit and ran out of toilet paper on LV-426 in
Aliens, and devoted 3 minutes just scrambling about the hallways looking for an extra roll, doesn't mean it belongs in that film.
This isn't as relevant, but seriously, citing a video game? You do realize it cannot possibly take seconds for a Predator to skin a fully grown human being, right? Have you ever been hunting? You stating 5 minutes was reasonable! Using that
Concrete Jungle cut scene as evidence is just a poor argument. There's no way a video game is going to waste 5 minutes every time you kill a human to show the Predator going through the entire skinning process, just so it can be realistic. You surely don't think that the pixelated and simply rendered people in that game is how they must've looked like in real life as well, do you? Or that the events in
ALIEN actually take place over the course of 2 hours?
QuoteYou are stubborn and ignorant. For the third and last time, the only reason why the skinning issue is still being talked about is because YOU KEEP DEFENDING IT. If you just admitted how unnecessary it is, I don't see why people would continue talking about it. They wouldn't. It is a small thing yet you don't even have the humility to accept the mere presence of this flaw, never mind how minor it is.
Cool it on the name-calling,
that is unnecessary to the plot of this thread. I'm defending this scene because I strongly believe that each film (no matter how good or bad) should be judged fairly and on its own merits therefore it's unfair to nitpick one film while allowing the same errors to go by unnoticed in other more popular ones. I have already readily acknowledge the flaws of AVPR and am willing to concede points to the opposition when appropriate. The only thing your side has done is prove that you are so obstinate in your opinions that even if one voice argues against the smallest element of your statement, you will go to ridiculous lengths (several pages actually) to prove how that one person has to be wrong on a subject you still claim is small and inconsequential.
Quote
I don't care if Wolf could take a few moments out of his time; the point is he didn't need to, it was pandering, an unnecessary callback forcefully plugged in and inconsistent with the rest of the film story-wise and character-wise. Just because you can say it could happen doesn't mean it belongs in the film.
Now, who's not listening? I already said previously that it was indeed necessary for Wolf to skin the cop because it helped balance his screen time with that of the Aliens. In the first act of the movie, the Aliens have already killed 5 people whereas Wolf's only actions are to explore the jungle and do janitorial work. If the skinning scene were removed, then the movie's focus in the first act will shift too heavily on the Aliens thus giving them more impact to the story than the Predator which obviously would have upset many Predator fans.
Quote
This isn't as relevant, but seriously, citing a video game? You do realize it cannot possibly take seconds for a Predator to skin a fully grown human being, right? Have you ever been hunting? You stating 5 minutes was reasonable! Using that Concrete Jungle cut scene as evidence is just a poor argument. There's no way a video game is going to waste 5 minutes every time you kill a human to show the Predator going through the entire skinning process, just so it can be realistic. You surely don't think that the pixelated and simply rendered people in that game is how they must've looked like in real life as well, do you? Or that word boxes and captions in the AvP comic books are canon, floating boxes in the air, present during all those events?
How long do you think it'll take a Predator to pull out a person's skull and spine to take a trophy? And how long do you think it'll take a human to do it as well? In the first Predator movie, Anytime trophied Billy's corpse in a matter of seconds whereas it would have taken humans much longer to achieve the same result; same goes with Mr. Black and Stan (further exemplifying a synchronicity between the movie times and the game times to do the same thing as demonstrated in both Predator: Concrete Jungle and AVP2010). If you're going to nitpick this area too, do you really think it's reasonable that a humanoid entity can survive several shots from Danny Glover's gun and still be alive? Predators are stronger than humans (because their homeplanet has a higher gravity than Earth's if I remember correctly) therefore that strength allows them to perform physical exercises much more efficiently than we do.
QuoteCool it on the name-calling, that is unnecessary to the plot of this thread.
Maybe you should read thoroughly and process some of the stuff I've written, rather than read selectively, judging by your responses.
QuoteThe only thing your side has done
Stop grouping fans together. We are individuals you know.
Quoteis prove that you are so obstinate in your opinions that even if one voice argues against the smallest element of your statement, you will go to ridiculous lengths (several pages actually) to prove how that one person has to be wrong on a subject you still claim is small and inconsequential.
Isn't that what you're doing? You're claiming it's small (by the way, small does not equal inconsequential), yet, you're the one still defending this point. You keep ignoring my point about acceptance, as many times as I've said it.
QuoteNow, who's not listening? I already said previously that it was indeed necessary for Wolf to skin the cop because it helped balance his screen time with that of the Aliens. In the first act of the movie, the Aliens have already killed 5 people whereas Wolf's only actions are to explore the jungle and do janitorial work. If the skinning scene were removed, then the movie's focus in the first act will shift too heavily on the Aliens thus giving them more impact to the story than the Predator which obviously would have upset many Predator fans.
You're not listening. Maybe you can't read sarcasm, but 7 posts ago I said the Strause brothers could've covered more Predator screentime in a better way. You know, smart writing, as opposed to stupid writing?
QuoteHow long do you think it'll take a Predator to pull out a person's skull and spine to take a trophy? And how long do you think it'll take a human to do it as well? In the first Predator movie, Anytime trophied Billy's corpse in a matter of seconds whereas it would have taken humans much longer to achieve the same result; same goes with Mr. Black and Stan (further exemplifying a synchronicity between the movie times and the game times to do the same thing as demonstrated in both Predator: Concrete Jungle and AVP2010). If you're going to nitpick this area too, do you really think it's reasonable that a humanoid entity can survive several shots from Danny Glover's gun and still be alive? Predators are stronger than humans (because their homeplanet has a higher gravity than Earth's if I remember correctly) therefore that strength allows them to perform physical exercises much more efficiently than we do.
Strength could make pulling out a skull and spine easier to do, but it has little to do with the meticulous process of skinning an entire human corpse. You surely don't think that the video game was skipping any time there?
QuoteIsn't that what you're doing? You're claiming it's small (by the way, small does not equal inconsequential), yet, you're the one still defending this point. You keep ignoring my point about acceptance, as many times as I've said it.
What I'm doing is very different, I'm defending the principle that if we're to judge films by some standard then it needs to be an
equal standard. Nitpicking one film because we hate it then applying a different standard to another film because we like it is the very definition of bigotry. Perhaps you do have a point that the scene could have been better written out but so could plenty of the scenes I listed from previous movies; if we're give those films a free slide then AVPR, no matter how good or bad it is, deserves the same treatment.
Quote
Strength could make pulling out a skull and spine easier to do, but it has little to do with the meticulous process of skinning an entire human corpse. You surely don't think that the video game was skipping any time there?
Obviously there was some time skip but I imagine it was seconds,
not minutes. Predators are stronger then us so therefore it would make the tasks of slicing flesh, peeling skin, and hanging bodies much easier than it would be for a normal human. If you think this is too unrealistic then I would like to point out that the Predator tearing out a man's skull and spine with a single pull is even more so because the spine is attached to a person's ribcage so it's a wonder that the victim's ribcage and the organs incased within aren't also pulled out as well.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 11:34:44 PM
What I'm doing is very different, I'm defending the principle that if we're to judge films by some standard then it needs to be an equal standard. Nitpicking one film because we hate it then applying a different standard to another film because we like it is the very definition of bigotry.
What makes you think that I am not judging the films on a equal standard? You think I am picking on
AvP-R just because I
want to? No,
AvP-R simply has far more issues than any other film in both series. It fails the equal standard the same way a student getting a 12% on a test fails a class, not because of bigotry.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 11:34:44 PM
if we're give those films a free slide then AVPR, no matter how good or bad it is, deserves the same treatment.
You're assuming we all give those films a free slide? I know I don't.
Jurassic World,
Avatar, and
Prometheus are all films I find mediocre, if not bad.
This is what I mean by you grouping people together, assuming we all give every other film a free pass, and that we're just out to hate
AvP-R because there was no way we wanted it to be a good movie! It's not all of us against you, you know.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 11:34:44 PM
Obviously there was some time skip but I imagine it was seconds, not minutes. Predators are stronger then us so therefore it would make the tasks of slicing flesh, peeling skin, and hanging bodies much easier than it would be for a normal human. If you think this is too unrealistic then I would like to point out that the Predator tearing out a man's skull and spine with a single pull is even more so because the spine is attached to a person's ribcage so it's a wonder that the victim's ribcage and the organs incased within aren't also pulled out as well.
There's a line between what's unrealistic and what is unnecessary. I don't hate films for being unrealistic, but a story has to make sense within its own logic.
QuoteWhat makes you think that I am not judging the films on a equal standard? You think I am picking on AvP-R just because I want to? No, AvP-R simply has far more issues than any other film in both series. It fails the equal standard the same way a student getting a 12% on a test fails a class, not because of bigotry.
Quote
You're assuming we all give those films a free slide? I know I don't. Jurassic World, Avatar, and Prometheus are all films I find mediocre, if not bad.
This is what I mean by you grouping people together, assuming we all give every other film a free pass, and that we're just out to hate AvP-R because there was no way we wanted it to be a good movie! It's not all of us against you, you know.
All right, fair enough, it's unfortunate when a few voices of a majority vote skew the opinion in a way not everyone agrees with but it does happen. As long as we judge every film equally then I have no problem.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 02, 2016, 11:34:44 PM
What I'm doing is very different, I'm defending the principle that if we're to judge films by some standard then it needs to be an equal standard. Nitpicking one film because we hate it then applying a different standard to another film because we like it is the very definition of bigotry. Perhaps you do have a point that the scene could have been better written out but so could plenty of the scenes I listed from previous movies; if we're give those films a free slide then AVPR, no matter how good or bad it is, deserves the same treatment.
What are these standards of which you speak because each movie should stand or fall on its own merits. 'AvPR' has no merits. How does any standards have anything to do with it?
It's a demonstration of lack of critical thinking to rely on non-existent standards, a set of boxes to be checked, if you like. Not all masterpieces are perfect - it's not perfection that makes a work of Art valuable. You can't just say 'all Art deserves to be judged by the same standard'. It doesn't work that way. Movies are the same and should be considered on a case by case basis. It doesn't matter if it's a sequel or standalone. You can't apply the merits of 'Citizen Kane' to 'Ghostbuster' using a set of standards. Good luck with trying because it's complete bollocks.
On its own merits, 'AvPR' fails on all counts of movie making. You want a list of standards applied to this movie? Then here it is:
This movie is a comprehensive checklist of what film makers should avoid.
-Windebieste.
QuoteYou can't apply the merits of 'Citizen Kane' to 'Ghostbuster' using a set of standards.
Citizen Kane and Ghostbusters belong in completely separate genres. When I say AVPR should be judged on the same standards as others I, of course, mean standards appropriate to its own genre.
QuoteThis movie is a comprehensive checklist of what film makers should avoid.
I don't want to nitpick, but this statement is too vague to be an actual standard; as much as fans don't want to admit it, there certainly were good things about the film such as the creature effects provided by Amalgamated Dynamics (ADI) which, as always, were beautifully done. I know you didn't outright say this but the above statement is rather unfair to suggest that AVPR's creature effects were horrible because it belonged to a bad movie whereas ADI's creature effects for other movies were good simply because they were more popular.
As far as standards set by other movies, then this one is outright garbage.
Who cares about the quality of creature effects. I can nominate a dozen examples of cinema and television that are infinitely superior to 'AvPR' and have noticably inferior creature effects...
Let's just start with a few right now. 'King Kong', 1933. 'The Thing from Another World', 1951. How about 'The Blob', 1955. 'THEM!', 1955. Oh, shit. We haven't even left the '50s yet but each of these are infinitely superior to 'AvPR' as genre cinema - and it's got nothing to do with the quality of creature effects.
The film fails on all counts when it's rubbish as a whole. Good creature effects can't save a movie like this. Most 1970's 'Dr. Who' stories are better than this and they are notorious for bad monster design.
You want something more contemporary? Here's the trailer for 'Danger 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z09bNgSeMI)'. It's superior to 'AvPR' in every way. Funny. Entertaining. Dinosaurs. Funny. Homages that work. Well lit. Well written bad dialogue: "You hit a Woman!" "I hit a Nazi!" Even complete parodies of this nature are infinitely worth watching more than 'AvPR'.
Besides, using the quality of creature effects as a crutch to determine standards is a complete cop out when you can't even see what's going on in any given scene because the entire film is poorly lit.
God! This movie is a textbook of bad film making.
-Windebieste.
Regardless of whether AVPR is rubbish or not, it deserves the same thing every other movie does; the opportunity to succeed or fail in a balanced and fair critique, not one created by hatred in the public opinion.
You seem fixated on AvP-R's poor reception being a result of public opinion. And you never thought to consider where the public opinion came from? Please don't discredit people who dislike the film by essentially calling them band-wagoners. I think after the disappointment many people apparently found the first Alien vs Predator to be, logically, they would want a superior sequel, not something to hate on!
It had the opportunity to be good, but its poor reception arose because that how individuals, yes individuals, felt it deserved - not because AvP-R is not a victim of some kind of discrimination or conspiracy.
I don't think that poor public opinion is the only reason it's bad, but I do believe that it is the reason many people try to turn trivial details that would have been ignored in other movies into big problems.
Wow so this is where all the action is.
Allow me to enter my 2-cents. I actually like avpr, even though that's not saying much as I do have to put it at the end of the entire alien-predator-avp franchise movie list. I felt it was an honest attempt at making an entertaining movie while taking rather hefty risks. Of course many mistakes were made but none of it was done on purpose or maligned the rest of the series.
First off, they screwed the pooch on the lighting. What ever it was, it doomed this film. The next thing, people were clamoring for a hard R movie; not the PG-13 get as many butts in the seats AVP. So the bros upped the graphic violence and gore. They crossed the pregnant women in peril line and once again doomed the film. That type of violence was simply not palatable to the average movie goer and was on top of axing a kid on screen. Personally this is a movie about horrible things and it did bother me a little bit but for most people it was way too much and they should have known better. The third problem, the gestation of the alien was way too fast and that is entirely the fault of a poor script.
The skinning thing, it flat out doesn't matter. This a predator after all, maybe he killed, skinned and hanged the corpse as a warning to stay the f**k away from the area. Of course no one understood how to read the warning. :P
The dialog, again, so what. It's a hick town, "dale you too stupid to talk" and "the government doesn't lie to people" is exactly what I'd expect the people there to talk like. The sewer, ambush, hospital (until the helipad) and final solution was done well. The cgi blood splatter was absolutely atrocious and alone doomed the film as well. They could have did without the teen angst as well and no one cared about the people in the film either. Once again that is due to a poor script.
So yea it is a bad movie but it is not absolute shit.
All I will say is that in the Strause Brothers' defence, if you get the chance to direct your first ever feature film after trying to break into that position from a visual effects background, and that film happens to be a match between two of your favourite sci-fi franchises, you are going to say yes - no matter how low the budget is and how abysmal the script is. Anyone who says otherwise would be lying.
The fault with this movie lies with Shane Salerno - the writer. I doubt even big-name directors could have done much with the storyline he envisioned. The Strause Brothers made mistakes, big ones, but it was their first feature, a learning experience and they knew before they even started they had an impossible job.
And the skinned body was put in without much thinking behind it as a way to pacify all the people who moaned about it being absent in the first film.
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 02:45:38 AMRegardless of whether AVPR is rubbish or not, it deserves the same thing every other movie does; the opportunity to succeed or fail in a balanced and fair critique, not one created by hatred in the public opinion.
AVP:R is essentially universally bad. It has almost no redeeming features. If it's hated by the public, it's because it's an appalling film.
As for the implication that only band-wagoners dislike it, I saw it before any reviews had had the chance to sour my opinion of it. And I
still thought it was one of the single worst big-budget movies I have
ever seen.
No one is questioning your opinion of it, but it's still a point that people let public hatred have an effect on their judgment of the film. In addition to the skinning example I have heard, there is also much controversy about the final battle when Chet let Wolf take off his mask; despite the fact that this scene was written as an homage to the previous film, fans still bash the movie for it as well while worse homages in other stories get a free pass.
"Fans still bash the movie for it as well while worse homages in other stories get a free pass"
Seriously, who are these fans? Stop acting like you're the single righteous one who truly judges films fairly, and putting everyone else into some generalized category. Unless you've conducted a survey, and have evidence that every fan who disliked AvP-R doesn't dislike those other movies (which you put under an incredibly vague umbrella) and that every fan who gives free passes doesn't give AvP-R a free pass either, you should really stop putting forth this "Everyone hates AvP-R because they want to!" malarkey.
If you're point is actually, "Some people hate AvP-R because they want to!," then fine, that is valid, but no more relevant to this thread than "Some people love AvP-R because they want to!"
Sorry, I probably should have been more specific and said some fans choose to bash the film for that reason; I did not mean to imply all fans did it so I apologize if you felt I was referring to you when I said that.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 03, 2016, 11:29:03 AM
The next thing, people were clamoring for a hard R movie; not the PG-13 get as many butts in the seats AVP. So the bros upped the graphic violence and gore. They crossed the pregnant women in peril line and once again doomed the film. That type of violence was simply not palatable to the average movie goer and was on top of axing a kid on screen. Personally this is a movie about horrible things and it did bother me a little bit but for most people it was way too much and they should have known better.
I found that scene as unnecessary violence, but I don't really consider it disgusting/horrible/whatever.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.
Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?
Think about it people !
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?
Think about it people !
Tell that to Shane Salerno, not me.
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.
Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?
Think about it people !
Not saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 03, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 02:54:25 PM
AVPR is an abysmal film, but AVP laid the groundwork that made it practically impossible to succeed and that's why I believe the AVP vs AVPR debate is not a fair one.
Right, let's think about other directions AVPR could take: Earth or outer space. Maybe have the ship return to the Predator homeworld (or at least a world deep under their influence) and have the Predalien slaughter other Predators? Or it would be the exact opposite of AVPR: over-powered Alien and canon fodder Predators?
Think about it people !
Not saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).
That's what I thought too...seems like we couldn't delay the inevitable.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Jan 03, 2016, 07:46:35 PM
Tell that to Shane Salerno, not me.
Any contact number? :)
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PMNot saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).
An
AVP film needs human characters. Even a 90-minute movie would get boring without them. I don't really want lots of subtitled Predator dialogue because it humanises them too much. They should remain mysterious and unintelligible, except when they want to be.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 04, 2016, 08:45:28 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 03, 2016, 10:53:17 PMNot saying that's a bad idea, but I think the producers wanted the movie to have human characters in it; after all, humans are a staple in most AVP stories and any type of movie without them likely wouldn't do well at the box office (not that AVPR ever did despite that).
An AVP film needs human characters. Even a 90-minute movie would get boring without them. I don't really want lots of subtitled Predator dialogue because it humanises them too much. They should remain mysterious and unintelligible, except when they want to be.
Dude, an Alien vs Predator movie sans humans could actually work. Both creatures have personalities. Hell the problem with both AVP movies are the people in it. Humans need to just get the f**k out of the way and Let Them Fight! :P Though with little to no dialog it had better have one hell of a visual director.
However one good thing about AVPr, the predator kept it's losing streak alive.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 04, 2016, 10:45:15 AMDude, an Alien vs Predator movie sans humans could actually work. Both creatures have personalities. Hell the problem with both AVP movies are the people in it. Humans need to just get the f**k out of the way and Let Them Fight! :P Though with little to no dialog it had better have one hell of a visual director.
No. Having sparse dialogue is one thing, but having a film where there will essentially be
no social interaction or communication whatsoever between the characters would be unbelievably boring. Or it would just be constant fighting, which would be incredibly tiring. Plus, because we couldn't really get to know these voiceless (and, in the case of the Aliens, faceless) individuals, there'd be no possibility of having any interest in the outcome beyond "Aliens r kool, kik the Predatorz ass!"
While I agree the human elements were the weak link in the existing
AVP films, if the humans were removed completely all that would be left is two boring, pointless fighting movies with no stakes and no tension.
Human characters aren't the problem. The people writing them are. I do agree that it'd be impractical to try and do a feature length sans humans. That said, I'd be totally up for some sort of short that was just the creatures duking it out.
Re: Has AvPR improved with age?
No.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 04, 2016, 01:38:23 PM
Human characters aren't the problem. The people writing them are. I do agree that it'd be impractical to try and do a feature length sans humans. That said, I'd be totally up for some sort of short that was just the creatures duking it out.
Isn't that the plot of AVP: Redemption?
And I loved Redemption. But I meant something in an official capacity.
It's been a long time since I have posted on here. I remember debating for quite awhile with people about Wolf, and such. I'll admit I haven't watched the film for awhile, but I still consider it enjoyable though far from the greatest "sci-fi/action/horror" movie I've seen. I'll even admit that the first AVP is overall the better movie, but I still stand by my stance about Wolf. He and Scar are still my favorite predators I've seen in live-action, and are only nearly matched by "Scarface" from the Concrete Jungle game. At worst with Wolf and Scar too really, the concept was there, but the execution wasn't always the best in moments. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me, but I remember certain people giving off a vibe that I was an "idiot" for thinking so highly of them. I get you have to have "teeth" with this type of fandom, but doesn't mean you have to use more immature type replies whenever someone goes away from the norm. Anyway, may be posting on here every so often not sure.
It is good to be back though, and this still the most active site I've seen for this type of stuff! Hope you all have been having a good 2016 so far!
P.S. I also had the username changes from "Infamous Yautja" to "DarkenedWolf", and to "YautjaSupporter" while on here before! lol
"Has AvPR improved wih age?"
I wish I had it in me to waste time and endure another round of AVP:R, but I really, really don't want to. It's such a crappy movie on all levels and there are so many other movies I haven't had the time to watch yet... I trust you guys when you say that AVP:R hasn't improved with age.
It's surprising Prometheus happened at all with the way things went down for Aliens films after James Cameron's epic magnum opus Aliens. I mean Alien 3, then AR:R, then AVP, then AVP:R. It was a real downward spiral. And yet, somebody believes a great deal in the series potential obviously. Thank goodness..
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 01:10:58 AM
It's surprising Prometheus happened at all with the way things went down for Aliens films after James Cameron's epic magnum opus Aliens. I mean Alien 3, then AR:R, then AVP, then AVP:R. It was a real downward spiral. And yet, somebody believes a great deal in the series potential obviously. Thank goodness..
The downward spiral somewhat started with Cameron's ALIENS. A3 was an attempt to reverse it by going a completely different direction than the easily digestible Hollywood route of ALIENS. It got a lot of flack for doing so, as we all know, but it is fair to say that out of all the Alien movies A3 is the one that has improved with age the most and that it was extremely and unfairly underrated when it came out.
Now, the AvP movies on the other hand really stink, even though AVP has its fun Indiana Jones Sci-Fi adventure moments, and A:R is a fun, interesting and weird movie on its own, but nowhere comparable to the original Trilogy, at least according to me.
I don't see how A:R is good at all tbh, after beating the PS1 game and reading the novelization by A.C. Crispin I thought I would give it another shot but it paled in comparison.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 01:33:07 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 01:10:58 AM
It's surprising Prometheus happened at all with the way things went down for Aliens films after James Cameron's epic magnum opus Aliens. I mean Alien 3, then AR:R, then AVP, then AVP:R. It was a real downward spiral. And yet, somebody believes a great deal in the series potential obviously. Thank goodness..
The downward spiral somewhat started with Cameron's ALIENS. A3 was an attempt to reverse it by going a completely different direction than the easily digestible Hollywood route of ALIENS. It got a lot of flack for doing so, as we all know, but it is fair to say that out of all the Alien movies A3 is the one that has improved with age the most and that it was extremely and unfairly underrated when it came out.
Now, the AvP movies on the other hand really stink, even though AVP has its fun Indiana Jones Sci-Fi adventure moments, and A:R is a fun, interesting and weird movie on its own, but nowhere comparable to the original Trilogy, at least according to me.
You really, honestly believe the downward spiral started with James Cameron's Aliens? The film that is revered as one of the greatest science fiction films of all time? The film that set the tone for the look of sci-fi for the last 3 decades? To each his own..
The reason Alien 3 did so poorly was because of what it tried to do by reversing the Aliens formula; it's like having Darth Vader say, "I'm your father," only to have him take it back in the sequel. What happened in the film series happened and there's no going back, trying to undo it just makes the next film look scared and desperate.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 01:02:10 AMI wish I had it in me to waste time and endure another round of AVP:R, but I really, really don't want to.
Ultimately, the true indicator of just how shite
AVP:R is, is this.
I'll inevitably rewatch all the other films at some point, but if I ever sit through
AVP:R again, I'll eat my underwear.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 06:29:02 AM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 01:33:07 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 01:10:58 AM
It's surprising Prometheus happened at all with the way things went down for Aliens films after James Cameron's epic magnum opus Aliens. I mean Alien 3, then AR:R, then AVP, then AVP:R. It was a real downward spiral. And yet, somebody believes a great deal in the series potential obviously. Thank goodness..
The downward spiral somewhat started with Cameron's ALIENS. A3 was an attempt to reverse it by going a completely different direction than the easily digestible Hollywood route of ALIENS. It got a lot of flack for doing so, as we all know, but it is fair to say that out of all the Alien movies A3 is the one that has improved with age the most and that it was extremely and unfairly underrated when it came out.
Now, the AvP movies on the other hand really stink, even though AVP has its fun Indiana Jones Sci-Fi adventure moments, and A:R is a fun, interesting and weird movie on its own, but nowhere comparable to the original Trilogy, at least according to me.
You really, honestly believe the downward spiral started with James Cameron's Aliens? The film that is revered as one of the greatest science fiction films of all time? The film that set the tone for the look of sci-fi for the last 3 decades? To each his own..
BaldEagle detests Aliens as much as you revere it. It's interesting having all these varying opinions because the films are all so drastically different.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 11, 2016, 07:13:06 AM
The reason Alien 3 did so poorly was because of what it tried to do by reversing the Aliens formula; it's like having Darth Vader say, "I'm your father," only to have him take it back in the sequel.
You seem to have taken up trying to call on Alien 3 for returning to one Alien of late. And it's nothing like that at all. :laugh: One is an actual plot point, the other is merely a number.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 08:49:06 AM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 01:02:10 AMI wish I had it in me to waste time and endure another round of AVP:R, but I really, really don't want to.
Ultimately, the true indicator of just how shite AVP:R is, is this.
I'll inevitably rewatch all the other films at some point, but if I ever sit through AVP:R again, I'll eat my underwear.
Indeed. The last time I watched AvPR was about 5 years ago. And it took me 3 sittings to do it.
Beagle does bring up a valid point with AVP being turned into an Indiana Jones movie. Alien is not an adventure ride, it's a tale of survival in an unforgiving universe.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 06:29:02 AMYou really, honestly believe the downward spiral started with James Cameron's Aliens? The film that is revered as one of the greatest science fiction films of all time? The film that set the tone for the look of sci-fi for the last 3 decades?
While I certainly wouldn't agree it's a bad movie,
Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry. The tendency to produce lazy copies of it (and the apparent willingness of people to lap that up) has really hurt things. I don't want a million copies of
Aliens with the same characters recycled, I want something new and different.
That's really not
Aliens' fault, let's be honest.
This Beagle quote, though, is really cringeworthy ...
QuoteA3 was an attempt to reverse it by going a completely different direction than the easily digestible Hollywood route of ALIENS
... because it implies that
Alien was trying to be something other than easily digestible and that
Aliens somehow missed the point. There's
nothing difficult or particularly challenging about
Alien. It's an utterly standard horror movie dressed up in an absolutely first class fashion;
that's what set it apart.
Oh man when was Aliens released, 1986? What a game changer that was. Alien though, had some important social commentary in it's themes.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 11, 2016, 11:27:38 AMThat's really not Aliens' fault, let's be honest.
No, just an observation.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 09:01:56 AM
While I certainly wouldn't agree it's a bad movie, Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry. The tendency to produce lazy copies of it (and the apparent willingness of people to lap that up) has really hurt things. I don't want a million copies of Aliens with the same characters recycled, I want something new and different.
You can't really say Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry since there was no "Alien franchise" prior to Aliens. There was just that one standalone film. If it wasn't for Aliens then there probably would have been no franchise at all. Aliens is what really catapulted the beast to mainstream popularity.
If they just went and made Alien 3 after Alien then that would probably have been that. One really great film and one flawed but reasonably decent one. I don't think you would have had a big enough fanbase to turn it into a commercially viable franchise with more films, novels, comic books, action figures etc.
Lazy copies, recycling and rip-offs happen with most highly successful films. *coughforceawakenscough*
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 11, 2016, 02:25:01 PMYou can't really say Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry since there was no "Alien franchise" prior to Aliens. There was just that one standalone film. If it wasn't for Aliens then there probably would have been no franchise at all. Aliens is what really catapulted the beast to mainstream popularity.
I was trying to say I think it's a double-edged sword. Yes, it's a superb film (my favourite of the series, in fact), but it's sort of become the figurehead of the franchise when that's not what I want nor what it should be. It's just one entry in a series. You aren't going to make a better Colonial Marines vs. Aliens movie than Cameron did, so why even try? Yet it seems like the vast majority of things since have been
Aliens-lite, and have often been the worse for it. Then you have the things that had their own merit but were rejected just because they weren't
Aliens 2.0. It's such a narrow-minded viewpoint.
One of the reasons I loved
Alien: Isolation so much is because it
wasn't just another
Aliens rip-off. In fact it was intentionally
not that. It was a complete breath of fresh air. I think it's the best thing to come out of the franchise in years.
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jan 11, 2016, 02:25:01 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 09:01:56 AM
While I certainly wouldn't agree it's a bad movie, Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry. The tendency to produce lazy copies of it (and the apparent willingness of people to lap that up) has really hurt things. I don't want a million copies of Aliens with the same characters recycled, I want something new and different.
You can't really say Aliens has probably done more harm to the franchise than any other entry since there was no "Alien franchise" prior to Aliens. There was just that one standalone film. If it wasn't for Aliens then there probably would have been no franchise at all. Aliens is what really catapulted the beast to mainstream popularity.
If they just went and made Alien 3 after Alien then that would probably have been that. One really great film and one flawed but reasonably decent one. I don't think you would have had a big enough fanbase to turn it into a commercially viable franchise with more films, novels, comic books, action figures etc.
Lazy copies, recycling and rip-offs happen with most highly successful films. *coughforceawakenscough*
Exactly. I really don't get the Aliens back-lash. Is it just hip to knock on something that is too popular? Aliens IMO is the best film of all time, but that is just me. I can still try to step back and see the film objectively, and even then its a masterpiece. I mean this website isn't Alien vs Predator, its Aliens vs. Predator. But anyway, I totally agree that its all opinion and down to everyone's own tastes. Nothing wrong with that I guess...
HuDa has explained what he means above and I can see his point.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 11, 2016, 02:56:57 PM
I mean this website isn't Alien vs Predator, its Aliens vs. Predator.
I wouldn't really take anything from that. One banner says Alien, another says Aliens.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 02:47:53 PM
I was trying to say I think it's a double-edged sword. Yes, it's a superb film (my favourite of the series, in fact), but it's sort of become the figurehead of the franchise when that's not what I want nor what it should be. It's just one entry in a series. You aren't going to make a better Colonial Marines vs. Aliens movie than Cameron did, so why even try? Yet it seems like the vast majority of things since have been Aliens-lite, and have often been the worse for it. Then you have the things that had their own merit but were rejected just because they weren't Aliens 2.0. It's such a narrow-minded viewpoint.
Aliens is undoubtedly the most popular film in the franchise so it makes business sense to base everything on it. I don't particularly like the heavy, almost exclusive emphasis on it either but that is where the money is.
Look on the bright side though, ACM probably reversed this trend to a degree. :laugh:
The movie was so dark. Even on Blu-ray it's hard to make out what's going on in certain scenes. I guess lighting WAS a problem based on what the lighting guy is yelling at the 1:45 mark in this video:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 11, 2016, 08:51:23 AM
BaldEagle...
You're a genius! Cheered me up a somber day like this (RIP David "Bowie" Jones). Thanks dude! :laugh:
Quote...detests Aliens as much as you revere it. It's interesting having all these varying opinions because the films are all so drastically different.
Indeed.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 11, 2016, 07:13:06 AM
You seem to have taken up trying to call on Alien 3 for returning to one Alien of late. And it's nothing like that at all. :laugh: One is an actual plot point, the other is merely a number.
Indeed.
Quote
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 08:49:06 AM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 01:02:10 AMI wish I had it in me to waste time and endure another round of AVP:R, but I really, really don't want to.
Ultimately, the true indicator of just how shite AVP:R is, is this.
I'll inevitably rewatch all the other films at some point, but if I ever sit through AVP:R again, I'll eat my underwear.
Indeed. The last time I watched AvPR was about 5 years ago. And it took me 3 sittings to do it.
Indeed.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 11, 2016, 11:27:38 AM
That's really not Aliens' fault, let's be honest.
This Beagle quote, though, is really cringeworthy ...
QuoteA3 was an attempt to reverse it by going a completely different direction than the easily digestible Hollywood route of ALIENS
... because it implies that Alien was trying to be something other than easily digestible and that Aliens somehow missed the point. There's nothing difficult or particularly challenging about Alien. It's an utterly standard horror movie dressed up in an absolutely first class fashion; that's what set it apart.
But A3 didn't. It did in no way try to please the audience, it didn't cater to the fast-food chromosome. Sure, ALIEN is structurally a standard horror movie, no one is denying that fact. What makes ALIEN so genius is that it feels like it goes beyond that. ALIENS messes up when it goes full Godzilla Rambo with duct taped guns, super mom and robotic forklift fight vs. giant monster followed by Ripley defying the laws of physics and vacuum of space. ALIEN is not a safe and pleasant movie, same goes for A3, whereas ALIENS is very safe and pleasant. It's a dressed up action hero movie with a happy Hollywood ending.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 11, 2016, 08:51:23 AM
You seem to have taken up trying to call on Alien 3 for returning to one Alien of late. And it's nothing like that at all. :laugh: One is an actual plot point, the other is merely a number.
Indeed.
Nah, if anything I'm calling on Alien 3 for the cheap way of handling the transition from Aliens to Alien-style storytelling; the plot was fine, but what they did to change the story to it was cheap and ineffective which is more typical of low end horror movies rather than higher end ones.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 11, 2016, 10:46:16 PM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 09:10:13 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 11, 2016, 08:51:23 AM
You seem to have taken up trying to call on Alien 3 for returning to one Alien of late. And it's nothing like that at all. :laugh: One is an actual plot point, the other is merely a number.
Indeed.
Nah, if anything I'm calling on Alien 3 for the cheap way of handling the transition from Aliens to Alien-style storytelling; the plot was fine, but what they did to change the story to it was cheap and ineffective which is more typical of low end horror movies rather than higher end ones.
You're funny! A3 is cheap for not copying ALIENS is what you're saying. ALIENS didn't follow the ALIEN style of storytelling, but it did COPY every single sequence from ALIEN, adding more action, explosions, one-liners and Hollywood gimmicks to cover it up. There is nothing low-end horror movie with A3, but please believe so if you want, and please elaborate some one why you think that's the case. The fact remains though that ALIENS is a sci-fi action movie version of ALIEN, high on Hollywood fumes.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all; the transitioning technique A3 used at the opening is cheap, NOT the story itself. Tbh, this is a very fair and true point since not only do the deaths of the entire cast feel phoned in but the entire opening sequence connecting the two movies was poorly thought out as well; to this day, there are plenty of fan theories explaining how the Alien egg got on the Sulaco which ultimately got resolved 2 decades later in A:CM Stasis Interrupted where it's revealed that Wey-Yu had a hand in smuggling the creatures onboard.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 11, 2016, 08:49:06 AM
I'll inevitably rewatch all the other films at some point, but if I ever sit through AVP:R again, I'll eat my underwear.
Having recently sat through the movie just to find out if the film had improved with age then I'd have to say 'Yes' to this. Actually, you are better off spending your time eating your underwear.
-Windebieste
Oh god man. AVPr and eating underwear simply do not go together.
Well there is one truth, Aliens is one of the best movies ever made. Period. Thus, since AVPr has aliens in it, if you erase the humans, preds and everything else that sucked. It is top 20 easy.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 11, 2016, 09:10:13 PM
Sure, ALIEN is structurally a standard horror movie, no one is denying that fact. What makes ALIEN so genius is that it feels like it goes beyond that.
What makes
Alien genius is they gave the concept credibility. As does
Aliens.
QuoteALIEN is not a safe and pleasant movie,
It's as safe and pleasant as
Aliens. The evil penis monster is vanquished and the last survivor drifts off to sleep to live happily ever after. Which is exactly how
Aliens ends, except with more dead penis monsters and more survivors. In
both cases it's the sequel that interrupts the survivor{s}'s otherwise pleasant victory.
QuoteThere is nothing low-end horror movie with A3,
You're delusional.
Killing off [some of] the main characters in the opening scene in inglorious fashion is slasher movie sequel 101, as is populating the movie with faceless, indistinguishable, unknown characters who exist solely to die in increasingly brutal fashion.
Friday the 13th Part II et al.
The
only thing
Alien3 has going for it to push it from "low-end" horror is production value, performances, great direction and Ripley's sacrifice at the end. Everything else, particularly in terms of plot - shock deaths, bland chase sequences, increased gore in favour of genuine suspense or terror - is
exactly bottom of the barrel slasher flick fare.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 11, 2016, 10:46:16 PM
Nah, if anything I'm calling on Alien 3 for the cheap way of handling the transition from Aliens to Alien-style storytelling; the plot was fine, but what they did to change the story to it was cheap and ineffective which is more typical of low end horror movies rather than higher end ones.
Clarify for me? - You're basically criticizing the killing of Newt and Hicks (nearly put Newt and Billie there for some reason :laugh:) in the title sequence - fail enough, a bone of contention for many years and will continue to be. And but, in your eyes, how does that equate to a transition to an Alien-style of storytelling?
It feels like Alien 3 is bending over backwards to compensate for its own storytelling. Admittedly, the film is at the bottom of my favorite AVP movies list for what it did to the cast of the previous film, if it compensated the lack of those characters without killing them then this film would have gone up several places on my list.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:35:40 AM
It feels like Alien 3 is bending over backwards to compensate for its own storytelling.
What are you trying to say, predxeno? Be specific please.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 12:03:12 AMTo this day, there are plenty of fan theories explaining how the Alien egg got on the Sulaco which ultimately got resolved 2 decades later in A:CM Stasis Interrupted where it's revealed that Wey-Yu had a hand in smuggling the creatures onboard.
Anyone who thinks that game is a decent explanation for anything should consider psychiatric treatment.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:35:40 AMAdmittedly, the film is at the bottom of my favorite AVP movies list for what it did to the cast of the previous film, if it compensated the lack of those characters without killing them then this film would have gone up several places on my list.
Except, as I tried to point out at length before, the loss to Ripley is the key motif of the film. Take that away, you get a different movie.
Well, as I stated before not only do Hicks and Newt's death feel cheaply handled (offscreen deaths are not the appropriate way to deal with them) but the entire opening to the third film is sloppily laid out. An alien egg is mysteriously onboard the Sulaco and no acknowledgement, let alone an explanation, is ever provided in-film (regardless of whether A:CM is a good story or not, it at least tried to amend that continuity issue). Even the Strause Bros. knew they had to provide a specific reason for why Chet could eggbarf albeit a reason that was unpopular among the fandom, but even they understood the principles of cause and effect.
While I completely agree the magic Egg is a pretty crappy opening (especially as the same end result could've quite easily been reached much more pleasingly), I'd still take that over ACM's hysterically ludicrous storytelling, which is about the worst, most childish, most fan-wanky bit of plotting in the entire franchise, above even the film at the centre of this thread.
Except the Bros had several different reasons for the eggbarfing rubbish and it was only after being complained at by fans online that they gave any reasons. No such reasons made it into the film - it's just as messy as Alien 3's eggs.
That said, I do agree that the magic egg was still messy and ACMs attempt to rectify anything is just as silly. Personally I preferred the lone facehugger coming aboard with the Queen and having a run around during the credits of Aliens.
Eggbarfing is a lot messier. The problem with A3 isn't that there is an egg, it's where the thing is. Putting it on the dropshop would've solved literally everything. Barfing comes straight the f**k outta nowhere.
The Alien Anthology tried:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.filmedge.net%2Falien%2Ffb%2Fmenu2.jpg&hash=4c049070280afd3e2efc46f4263393db121d0c3d)
Quote from: SiL on Jan 12, 2016, 11:02:40 AM
Eggbarfing is a lot messier. The problem with A3 isn't that there is an egg, it's where the thing is. Putting it on the dropshop would've solved literally everything. Barfing comes straight the f**k outta nowhere.
Shit, new alien, new style of procreation. I don't see the big problem with that one. The runner never had a chance to make eggs, perhaps it may have given birth to live young or laid eggs in the dead host. Just mindless speculation. It's still better than the SUPER facehugger. Hell the magical space egg is better than that too.
The problem is it's pants on head retarded. It's a new host, but it's still an Alien. Host doesn't come into it.
And the Runner was going to coccoon people.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 12, 2016, 11:44:57 AM
It's still better than the SUPER facehugger. Hell the magical space egg is better than that too.
I think a royal hugger would have been pretty reasonable.
Keeping with the ant/termite analogy Cameron started, the royal facehugger is entirely reasonable. Ant queens are born, not moulted into by drones.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 12, 2016, 11:44:57 AMShit, new alien, new style of procreation. I don't see the big problem with that one.
Because it completely and immediately undermines the previously very complex reproductive cycle. If you don't need the Egg and Facehugger at all and can simply chunder a Chestburster into existence, why would you even bother with all those extra steps? It makes no sense for one to exist alongside the other.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 12, 2016, 11:44:57 AMIt's still better than the SUPER facehugger. Hell the magical space egg is better than that too.
Like Hicks, I actually really like the Royal Facehugger idea. It makes sense for a Queen to have additional protection from her inception, which the Royal Facehugger provides twofold in the way it looks a bit tougher, and also provides a bodyguard for her while she grows. And as SiL says, it has a very real precedent in the insect kingdom.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 12, 2016, 08:58:03 AM
Except the Bros had several different reasons for the eggbarfing rubbish and it was only after being complained at by fans online that they gave any reasons. No such reasons made it into the film - it's just as messy as Alien 3's eggs
Really? That's strange because I was a member of PlanetAVP at the time, this was before I joined AvPGalaxy, and I remember explicitly that months before the film was released it was revealed that Chet was part queen and that's why it could eggbarf; this was the reason why Chet was given a Queen-shaped crown while the Predalien in AVP2010, which the Strause Bros. consulted on, wasn't.
It's apparent that the history of AVPR's development is clouded in confusion among the AVP community as I have literally seen several different versions of it on this forum alone through the years. For what it's worth I have been a fan of AVPR since the very first trailer and I have made learning its background one of my top priorities as an AVP fan so I feel I have a more accurate understanding of its story (that's just my 2 cents tho).
Quote
That said, I do agree that the magic egg was still messy and ACMs attempt to rectify anything is just as silly. Personally I preferred the lone facehugger coming aboard with the Queen and having a run around during the credits of Aliens.
I think A:CM's explanation was just overconvoluted as opposed to silly since it was obviously meant to connect to a
whole separate game campaign and all that. However, A:CM's explanation is still vastly superior to Alien 3's (since A3 offered no explanation, this is to be expected) despite all its flaws.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 12, 2016, 11:48:13 AM
The problem is it's pants on head retarded. It's a new host, but it's still an Alien. Host doesn't come into it.
And the Runner was going to coccoon people.
Actually, the original explanation was that Chet was a young queen but then the Strause Bros. changed it after the bad fan reaction, even I think the host explanation was dumb and that the Strause Bros. should have just stuck to their first explanation.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 07:16:27 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 12, 2016, 08:58:03 AM
Except the Bros had several different reasons for the eggbarfing rubbish and it was only after being complained at by fans online that they gave any reasons. No such reasons made it into the film - it's just as messy as Alien 3's eggs
Really? That's strange because I was a member of PlanetAVP at the time, this was before I joined AvPGalaxy, and I remember explicitly that months before the film was released it was revealed that Chet was part queen and that's why it could eggbarf; this was the reason why Chet was given a Queen-shaped crown while the Predalien in AVP2010, which the Strause Bros. consulted on, wasn't.
It's apparent that the history of AVPR's development is clouded in confusion among the AVP community as I have literally seen several different versions of it on this forum alone through the years. For what it's worth I have been a fan of AVPR since the very first trailer and I have made learning its background one of my top priorities as an AVP fan so I feel I have a more accurate understanding of its story (that's just my 2 cents tho).
We were told it was a young queen and that it was a result of the Predator breeding methods...But again, neither reasons are in the film.
I'd recommend having a read of the Archives if you're really curious.
Thanks, I've read through the archives before though I didn't see anything that contradicted my recollection of events, was there a specific post you had in mind? As I said before from what I've been able to discern, Chet was always meant to be a juvenile queen which was why it could eggbarf, it wasn't explicitly stated in the film because no one in the story would have known (or cared) enough about Alien biology to have made it a point.
Has the Predator reproductive system ever been established? If not, well, what if they "egg-barf" between themselves to impregnate each other and subsequently give oral birth? I mean that could be a trait picked up by the Alien / Predator hybrid...
I think John Shirley, author of Predator: Forever Midnight, said that the male "Hish" sprays something into the female who then produces a litter of children. Of course, the Yautja anatomy might be different as the Hish intermittently switch genders while nothing like that is ever referenced in regards to the Yautja.
As for how Aliens may mate, Steve Perry mentioned there are different male and female genders as well and I inferred from the comics that the male genitalia is hidden in the second mouth and it extends outward into the Queen's second mouth during mating.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 07:24:24 PM
Thanks, I've read through the archives before though I didn't see anything that contradicted my recollection of events, was there a specific post you had in mind?
I was looking for the PredAlien Reproduction thread but got bored of looking. I'll try again in a bit and have a look.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 12, 2016, 08:10:17 PM
Has the Predator reproductive system ever been established? If not, well, what if they "egg-barf" between themselves to impregnate each other and subsequently give oral birth? I mean that could be a trait picked up by the Alien / Predator hybrid...
From what I remember, Perry's Yautja just have sex. I'll have to take predxeno's word on the Hish because I haven't read FM for a
long time. Nothing is ever said like this barfing thing before.
For those interested, John Shirley had this to say about Hish sex:
QuoteI looked at my manuscript file and as far as I can see the only reference to sex is to spraying secretions on the female--this may possibly not be too literal, or may not contradict what the Perrys have, if we really look closely. They didnt mention the sex changing thing though. But I wonder if they said anything to really contradict it. Predators stay in one gender for quite a while in my story.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=773.15 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=773.15)
I don't know if it was ever published in the book itself, but he did post about it on this forum.
Who was it that called the Predator Pu$$y-Face? Harrigan? Perhaps there's a reason why their mouths look so... vaginal?
Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as he and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens." Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:55:27 PM
Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens." Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.
I'm not sure if that's, strictly speaking, logical, but live long and prosper anyway. ;)
Quote from: SiL on Jan 12, 2016, 06:39:59 AM
What makes Alien genius is they gave the concept credibility. As does Aliens.
ALIEN pulled through whereas ALIENS messed up that part epically the last 20 or so minutes of the movie.
QuoteAliens. The evil penis monster is vanquished and the last survivor drifts off to sleep to live happily ever after. Which is exactly how Aliens ends, except with more dead penis monsters and more survivors. In both cases it's the sequel that interrupts the survivor{s}'s otherwise pleasant victory.
Not at all. The humans were never on top at any point during the movie. Even when Ripley ejected the harpooned Alien, who almost came on to her in an almost sexual manner, we still had that feeling of this rapist creature could come back and violate us. There is no rape-and-revenge thing going on in ALIEN. You sweat through the movie and never enter action hero territory as you do in ALIENS (Rambo Ripley cleaning up the Hive, and Powerloader vs. Queen Godzilla fight, and Ripley climbing up a ladder with a Powerloader and alien queen hanging on her foot while being sucked into space).
In ALIEN Ripley drifts off alone (...and the traitorous cat Jones), violated and f**ked up in ALIEN, whereas in ALIENS she goes home on a military Starship together with her newly found lovey dovy family (papa Hix, baby Newt and their loyal dog Bishop).
So theoretically, yes, you have a point, but in reality ALIEN and ALIENS are two completely different beasts dealing with the formula in very different manners. ALIENS, safe and pleasant. ALIEN, not so much.
QuoteKilling off [some of] the main characters in the opening scene in inglorious fashion is slasher movie sequel 101,
They didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene. That scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.
Quote...as is populating the movie with faceless, indistinguishable, unknown characters who exist solely to die in increasingly brutal fashion. Friday the 13th Part II et al.
They fill a symbolic purpose. Fiorina is in a way the purgatory and the inmates are in limbo. In the eyes of God we all look the same. It's your actions that set you aside. The irony of that mankind's most hated, shunned and despised individuals are the ones saving mankind, and thus finding redemption in their deaths, working together till the end knowing very well they will die, is beautiful. Their horrific deaths kind of work along the Old Testament doctrine their apocalyptic god inhabits. The symbolism is there and masterful but apparently subtle enough since too many Aliens fans seem to miss it (probably on purpose).
QuoteThe only thing Alien3 has going for it to push it from "low-end" horror is production value, performances, great direction and Ripley's sacrifice at the end.Everything else, particularly in terms of plot - shock deaths, bland chase sequences, increased gore in favour of genuine suspense or terror - is exactly bottom of the barrel slasher flick fare.
I see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others. I'm curious though why you defend ALIENS so much but have no problem throwing the other movies under the bus? Because it sure as hell has nothing to do with objectivity and such, even though you try to make it sound like that's the case. This is not the first time we've discussed ALIENS & A3, SiL. You're just as biased as I am.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:55:27 PM
Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens." Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.
Eerrr...no because Aliens don't reproduce with each other.
If we ever see a Predator love scene, I think that will be the end of the franchise. Or it could be the beginning of something very funny.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 12, 2016, 09:05:31 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:55:27 PM
Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens." Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.
Eerrr...no because Aliens don't reproduce with each other.
and
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 12, 2016, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 12, 2016, 08:55:27 PM
Yeah, it was Harrigan, he said it as the and Pussyface were hanging over the side of the building. "Your move, Pussyface." "Shit happens." Personally though, if anything I'd have to say eggbarfing is how the Aliens naturally reproduce with each other as they have no outward genitals where such appendages usually lie so the only logical conclusion would be that their reproductive organs are in their already existing orifices which is their mouths.
I'm not sure if that's, strictly speaking, logical, but live long and prosper anyway. ;)
My brother just told me the same thing. :laugh: But as I said, this is just the explanation I formed with Steve Perry's assertion that Aliens can have sex and a picture of what I liken to be an Alien penis in one of the drawings in Aliens: Reapers.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg3.wikia.nocookie.net%2F__cb20101230194040%2Favp%2Fimages%2Fthumb%2F9%2F95%2FAliens_Reapers.jpg%2F500px-Aliens_Reapers.jpg&hash=e3868f22ffcf6f114a236e91ccc0c9a83c43d8f5)
Royal Facehugger eh... that calls for a Royal Face Palm. Oh sure lets just make it bigger and carry more eggs, yea that's basically what the Predalien was folks.
Guys, the royal facehugger was a classic Dark Horse idea that dates back to about 1988. It appeared in issue 2 of the Mark A Nelson, Mark Verheiden's series. While it may or may not be canon, when someone suggests that it's not part of the classic Aliens lore, that's just poppycock.
The queen facehugger reappeared in issue 34 of Dark Horse Presents, to kick off the first ever Aliens Vs. Predator comic series.
Now I'm getting interested in this Royal Facehugger debate, do you know which exact titles mentioned this creature? The first I can think of is mention of a Royal Egg in Aliens: Stronghold.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that the actual "eggs" appeared for the first time in Dark Horse Presents 24. The eggs had dark blotchy markings (like from a Rorschach test) on them. This issue was Dr. Orona's paper on "Theory of Alien Propagation". I think it came out after Aliens (series 1) issue 2, but in the compiled TPB, it appeared after issue 1. This is important because in issue 2 we see a queen facehugger. She has the same blotches on her air sacs and also has these thorny spines on her back. It looks alright. The design is ok. Anyway, we don't get to see the egg in issue 2, only the queen facehugger at the end. So which came first, the facehugger or the egg?
Hell no the this tread....that is all.
If you look at issue 34 of DHP carefully, you will see that there is an alien queen egg there, but the design of the egg is for whatever reason a bit different. There are no splotches on the egg, but instead it appears to have these big bumpy spore shapes or something. Anyway, in this issue, there is basically an alien birthing assembly line. When the system recognizes that there is a queen egg born, it quickly destroys it. But at the end of the story, we see that the queens ovipositor fools the system and allows an alien queen to survive and get out. Life finds a way.
Oh yes, I almost forgot about the Theory of Alien Propagation, I just never considered it canon because it was only a "theory" rather than a part of the storyline. Btw, was Dark Horse Presents #24 and #34 ever placed in the Omnibus releases?
DHP 24 was released in every compilation of book 1, so that includes, the original TPB, the colored TPB, the original and upcoming HC and also Aliens omnibus volume1.
DHP 34 formed a black and white tryptic of tales that was continued in DHP 35, and 36. The three stories were first combined into one volume in Aliens vs Predator #0. Subsequently, these stories were reprinted in the AVP TPB with full color added for the first time. After that, I presume they made it into the AVP omnibus, but as I don't own a copy I can't confirm this.
Incidentally, the DHP 34, 35, and 36 issues are structured similarly to the new Rage War series. Issue 34 was Aliens, Issue 35 was Predator, and issue 36 was the first ever full-on AVP story ever published anywhere. It came with 2 cover variants.
Nerds!
The Royal facehugger just seems a little too contrived and boring for my taste. I rather like the cocooning or morphing parts better. It's kind of how I prefer Prometheus over the Spaith script(w/ improvements). Sure Spaith draft would make for a more coherent movie but in my opinion that movie would have blown and have been lame blasted worse. Yet this debate makes me feel like being stuck on the end of a piece of shit that's still in the anus; while the other side in on the other end enjoying the sunshine. Yea it's shit either way.
:P
I also only read a few comics and a couple of novel. I didn't like the novels I read either.
The white tape is coming off of my glasses. ;-)
So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing? That's some whackadoo shit Bro!
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 13, 2016, 03:31:35 AM
The white tape is coming off of my glasses. ;-)
So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing? That's some whackadoo shit Bro!
Oh no, not that. Just that Kanes son would have either made a queen from somebody corpse or became the queen itself. I'm perfectly fine with a queen from any given facehugger. Just pointless to have a SUPERhugger. Plus the egg in the Sulaco was much smaller looking, there is no way that huge ass thing would have fit inside it. :P
Of course there was no need for the queen in the original concept being that it was supposed to have been spores.
If you want some serious whackadoo shit then how about my idea that the eggs in the derelict are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. That would then make a superfacehugger awesome.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 13, 2016, 03:31:35 AM
The white tape is coming off of my glasses. ;-)
So you think that all the other eggs have to come from a queen but the Queen basically comes from egg-morphing? That's some whackadoo shit Bro!
If the Alien is a female then it turns into a Queen but if it's male then it eggmorphs to make a female; that's really the only way eggmorphing can really be justified in the Alien life cycle tbh, I know people don't like to gender the Alien but that's just the way it is.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 12, 2016, 09:00:51 PM
Not at all. The humans were never on top at any point during the movie. Even when Ripley ejected the harpooned Alien, who almost came on to her in an almost sexual manner, we still had that feeling of this rapist creature could come back and violate us.
Right up until she vaporised it with the engine. Then it was pretty dead. Goodbye monster, hello peaceful sleep.
QuoteIn ALIEN Ripley drifts off alone (...and the traitorous cat Jones), violated and f**ked up in ALIEN
She wasn't terribly f**ked up -- she was still entirely level headed when dealing the Alien and stopped to make an official report before going to sleep.
Aliens established the psychological scarring, not
Alien.
Ripley goes to sleep to live happily ever after in both movies. Only the sequels -- for both movies -- reveal this isn't strictly the case. They're both safe. The good guys won. The end.
QuoteThey didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene.
People don't, generall,y
die at their funerals. Hicks and Newt weren't exceptions. Their actual deaths were inglorious and cheap.
QuoteThat scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.
No it doesn't, it strengthens the argument that the film just dressed it up prettier than most.
QuoteThey fill a symbolic purpose.
As do topless teens smoking drugs and having gratuitous sex in such artistic slasher movies as, well, all of them.
QuoteI see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others.
Pointing out that 90% of the cast of
Alien3 is faceless and interchangeable and only exists to die is neither cherry picking nor a small detail.
QuoteI'm curious though why you defend ALIENS so much but have no problem throwing the other movies under the bus?
When did I throw
Alien under a bus, exactly? When I pointed out the clear fact the film as as Hollywood friendly as its sequel? That it has the same happy ending? That it's not a deep, challenging arthouse extravaganza? Sorry, I'm not pretentious enough to let those things make me feel my favourite movie is somehow
lesser so I don't feel I'm doing it a disservice.
As for
Alien3, it's well known I like it more than
Aliens. But it's a flawed movie and I'm not doing
it a disservice any more than I did
Alien.
Pointing out that films aren't what you're trying to make of them isn't throwing them under a bus, it's having a different perspective.
QuoteYou're just as biased as I am.
I'm really not. You talk about
Aliens in broad, simple, dismissive terms, but couch your discussions of
Alien and
Alien3 in rhetoric and pretense to make them seem like something they're not. You're very careful with your wording to make
Aliens sound as bad as possible and every other movie great by comparison. I just use even language for all of them.
It's like someone describe dog shit as a smelly, brown, sticky mess and cat shit as aromatic, earthen-coloured, softly textured excretions. One sounds more palatable, but it seems like a waste of energy to get upset when someone points out they're still both pieces of crap :-\
(The dog and cat poo, not the movies)
Quote from: SiL on Jan 13, 2016, 06:03:17 AM
Right up until she vaporised it with the engine. Then it was pretty dead. Goodbye monster, hello peaceful sleep.
Problem is that it wasn't vaporized. It drifted into space, potentially alive since we never see it die.
QuoteRipley goes to sleep to live happily ever after in both movies. Only the sequels -- for both movies -- reveal this isn't strictly the case. They're both safe. The good guys won. The end.
Theoretically, yes. But in ALIENS she ended up getting a traditional family after literally beating up the monster and overcoming the laws of physics. In the end of ALIENS Ripley was no longer just another human being, she was a freaking super hero.
QuoteThey didn't. The most poetic, beautiful and poignant scene in all of the movies is The Funeral Scene.Quote
People don't, generall,y die at their funerals. Hicks and Newt weren't exceptions. Their actual deaths were inglorious and cheap.
No. No, they weren't. Now you're just deflecting the fact that Hicks and Newt's deaths were honored more than any other death in the movies, even more so than Ripley's sacrifice.
QuoteThat scene completely nullifies the argument that Hix & Noot's deaths were cheap, or inglorious, blah blah etc.Quote
No it doesn't, it strengthens the argument that the film just dressed it up prettier than most.
On the contrary, and you know it.
QuoteThey fill a symbolic purpose. Quote
As do topless teens smoking drugs and having gratuitous sex in such artistic slasher movies as, well, all of them.
Now I'm starting to believe that you're just trolling me, or you're more prestigious of a person than I thought.
QuoteI see where you're coming from SiL, but you're really simplifying it, lots of cherry picking some details while ignoring others.Quote
Pointing out that 90% of the cast of Alien3 is faceless and interchangeable and only exists to die is neither cherry picking nor a small detail.
You know what I'm talking about. You're cherry picking ALIENS to uphold its overrated status, while you're being overtly stiff and rigid when it comes to A3, scrutinizing it on an unfair level whereas ALIENS get a free pass.
QuoteWhen did I throw Alien under a bus, exactly? When I pointed out the clear fact the film as as Hollywood friendly as its sequel? That it has the same happy ending? That it's not a deep, challenging arthouse extravaganza? Sorry, I'm not pretentious enough to let those things make me feel my favourite movie is somehow lesser so I don't feel I'm doing it a disservice.
Sorry, I worded it the wrong way. As you may have noticed I have a tendency so sound very dramatic when discussing stuff online. What I was getting at is that all the movies except ALIENS you unveil, undress and scrutinize. According to your posts ALIENS is a flawless masterpiece on all levels.
QuoteAs for Alien3, it's well known I like it more than Aliens. But it's a flawed movie and I'm not doing it a disservice any more than I did Alien.
I totally agree with you on the first part - A3 is indeed flawed, and ALIEN has its share of flaws too. But as I mentioned above, ALIENS totally gets special treatment from you. Maybe it's not intentional, but the fact remains.
Pointing out that films aren't what you're trying to make of them isn't throwing them under a bus, it's having a different perspective.
QuoteYou're just as biased as I am.
I'm really not. You talk about
Aliens in broad, simple, dismissive terms, but couch your discussions of
Alien and
Alien3 in rhetoric and pretense to make them seem like something they're not. You're very careful with your wording to make
Aliens sound as bad as possible and every other movie great by comparison. I just use even language for all of them.[/quote]
No you don't. You and I discuss the movies opposite ways. I might be indirectly trashing on ALIENS while you're indirectly trashing on al the other movies.
QuoteIt's like someone describe dog shit as a smelly, brown, sticky mess and cat shit as aromatic, earthen-coloured, softly textured excretions. One sounds more palatable, but it seems like a waste of energy to get upset when someone points out they're still both pieces of crap :-\
(The dog and cat poo, not the movies)
Nice analogy.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 13, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
No. No, they weren't. Now you're just deflecting the fact that Hicks and Newt's deaths were honored more than any other death in the movies, even more so than Ripley's sacrifice.
They died off-screen in their sleep -- that's not glorious. Their death can be "honoured" to high hell later for all I care, that doesn't change the fact the
actual act of their deaths was cheap and to generate shock and disorientation in the audience. Stop trying to redefine the argument.
QuoteYou're cherry picking ALIENS to uphold its overrated status, while you're being overtly stiff and rigid when it comes to A3, scrutinizing it on an unfair level whereas ALIENS get a free pass.
That is
so rich coming from someone who says that a cast made primarily of faceless -- and in some cases, literally
nameless -- prison inmates who exist only to die is actually some profound metaphysical statement about God and man's place in the universe, but that using contemporary conventions in
Aliens to set a mood and expectation that gets flipped on its head is a sign of shitty, sub-par writing.
You're the one cherry picking, not me. I'm calling spades spades.
QuoteAccording to your posts ALIENS is a flawless masterpiece on all levels.
By pointing out that its ending is no happier than
Alien's...? Because that's really the only compliment I've given it. You must really, really f**king hate the movie to see someone saying "It's not happier than the original" as the same as saying "It's flawless". Get a grip.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 14, 2016, 06:40:17 AM
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 13, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
No. No, they weren't. Now you're just deflecting the fact that Hicks and Newt's deaths were honored more than any other death in the movies, even more so than Ripley's sacrifice.
They died off-screen in their sleep -- that's not glorious. Their death can be "honoured" to high hell later for all I care, that doesn't change the fact the actual act of their deaths was cheap and to generate shock and disorientation in the audience. Stop trying to redefine the argument.
I have to agree with SiL here, historically whenever a character is killed offscreen it's because it's the cheapest and most convenient way to get rid of their actors; Independence Day: Resurgence, Jaws: The Revenge, Terminator 3. In horror movie history, when a character dies in the opening credits, it's always to provide shock value rather than plot value; Cabin Fever 2, Hostel 2, The Grudge 2 and 3. To say Alien 3 honored Hicks and Newt would be to say that it's the exception to
both these rules, and I simply don't think Fox or whoever wrote Alien 3 were that innovative to do it; the messy production and the poor reception of the initial theatrical release seem to affirm this.
The fact that they managed to suffuse the funeral scene with the Alien birth scene seemed more a lucky coincidence for the crew who actually were able to think up a good idea, however I can't imagine it would have required much imagination to come up with that idea.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 07:40:11 AMIn horror movie history, when a character dies in the opening credits, it's always to provide shock value rather than plot value.
I'd actually argue the deaths of Hicks and Newt does
both.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 14, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 07:40:11 AMIn horror movie history, when a character dies in the opening credits, it's always to provide shock value rather than plot value.
I'd actually argue the deaths of Hicks and Newt does both.
Indeed. And neither was it a particularly cheap way to get rid of the actors. Remember, that one picture in Alien 3 cost them more than Biehn's entire pay for Aliens.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 14, 2016, 08:55:24 AMRemember, that one picture in Alien 3 cost them more than Biehn's entire pay for Aliens.
You could argue they were desperate by that point though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 14, 2016, 08:55:24 AM
Indeed. And neither was it a particularly cheap way to get rid of the actors. Remember, that one picture in Alien 3 cost them more than Biehn's entire pay for Aliens.
For the record I wasn't talking financial when I said cheap :p
Out of curiosity, did Carrie Henn even want to reprise her roll as newt? Considering she didn't do much acting afterwards and how outright demanding aliens must have been. I've always been sort of pissed at them for killing newt and hicks off but if she didn't want to play the roll again, then it was the right move.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 14, 2016, 10:25:27 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 14, 2016, 08:55:24 AM
Indeed. And neither was it a particularly cheap way to get rid of the actors. Remember, that one picture in Alien 3 cost them more than Biehn's entire pay for Aliens.
For the record I wasn't talking financial when I said cheap :p
I know :P Predxeno likes mentioning it lately.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 14, 2016, 11:54:03 AM
Out of curiosity, did Carrie Henn even want to reprise her roll as newt? Considering she didn't do much acting afterwards and how outright demanding aliens must have been. I've always been sort of pissed at them for killing newt and hicks off but if she didn't want to play the roll again, then it was the right move.
I recall her saying she was bullied about being in Aliens.
She was bullied for being in Aliens? That's kind of shocking to me and completely uncalled for. I'm assuming it was from jealousy and childhood immaturity. Kids can be mean.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 14, 2016, 08:55:24 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 14, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 07:40:11 AMIn horror movie history, when a character dies in the opening credits, it's always to provide shock value rather than plot value.
I'd actually argue the deaths of Hicks and Newt does both.
Indeed. And neither was it a particularly cheap way to get rid of the actors. Remember, that one picture in Alien 3 cost them more than Biehn's entire pay for Aliens.
Didn't Biehn get that money afterwards? I mean Fox initially wan't going to pay him at all right? They just used the pic without permission I read somewhere...
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 14, 2016, 02:52:18 PMDidn't Biehn get that money afterwards? I mean Fox initially wan't going to pay him at all right? They just used the pic without permission I read somewhere...
I believe he found out they'd built a dummy of him to use in filming of a nightmare sequence, then he found out and demanded that he, or any imitation of him, be removed from the film. Later they phoned him back and asked to use his picture, at which point he demanded the money.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 13, 2016, 09:02:42 PM
Sorry, I worded it the wrong way. As you may have noticed I have a tendency so sound very dramatic when discussing stuff online. What I was getting at is that all the movies except ALIENS you unveil, undress and scrutinize. According to your posts ALIENS is a flawless masterpiece on all levels.
You must be joking, SiL has a very fair (probably the fairest) record of criticising all of the moves on an equitable level, including Aliens. You can peruse his post history.
According to some posts here you'd think Alien 3 was a misunderstood masterpiece and we're all dolts for criticising it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 14, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
She was bullied for being in Aliens? That's kind of shocking to me and completely uncalled for. I'm assuming it was from jealousy and childhood immaturity. Kids can be mean.
Thats life for you.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 14, 2016, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 14, 2016, 02:52:18 PMDidn't Biehn get that money afterwards? I mean Fox initially wan't going to pay him at all right? They just used the pic without permission I read somewhere...
I believe he found out they'd built a dummy of him to use in filming of a nightmare sequence, then he found out and demanded that he, or any imitation of him, be removed from the film. Later they phoned him back and asked to use his picture, at which point he demanded the money.
Yeah, I think that's about right, either way I don't think them paying Biehn a shit load of money is an adequate argument that they weren't being "cheap" about it; the whole incident about paying Biehn was based on luck, if his agent never arrived on set then he never would have seen the Hicks dummy and Biehn never would have been paid.
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jan 14, 2016, 05:27:32 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 14, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
She was bullied for being in Aliens? That's kind of shocking to me and completely uncalled for. I'm assuming it was from jealousy and childhood immaturity. Kids can be mean.
Thats life for you.
I wouldn't say she was bullied, more like teased a bit.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 05:46:38 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 14, 2016, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 14, 2016, 02:52:18 PMDidn't Biehn get that money afterwards? I mean Fox initially wan't going to pay him at all right? They just used the pic without permission I read somewhere...
I believe he found out they'd built a dummy of him to use in filming of a nightmare sequence, then he found out and demanded that he, or any imitation of him, be removed from the film. Later they phoned him back and asked to use his picture, at which point he demanded the money.
Yeah, I think that's about right, either way I don't think them paying Biehn a shit load of money is an adequate argument that they weren't being "cheap" about it; the whole incident about paying Biehn was based on luck, if his agent never arrived on set then he never would have seen the Hicks dummy and Biehn never would have been paid.
Quote from: THE CITY HUNTER on Jan 14, 2016, 05:27:32 PM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 14, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
She was bullied for being in Aliens? That's kind of shocking to me and completely uncalled for. I'm assuming it was from jealousy and childhood immaturity. Kids can be mean.
Thats life for you.
I wouldn't say she was bullied, more like teased a bit.
I thing the girl in Alien Resurrection.
You mean Winona Ryder's portrayal of Annalee Call? The only thing I ever heard of Carrie Henn being bullied is that all her classmates used to tease her a lot about the "They mostly come out at night. Mostly." line; Henn was smiling and laughing in that interview so it didn't sound like it was that traumatic.
SIL
QuoteThey died off-screen in their sleep -- that's not glorious. Their death can be "honoured" to high hell later for all I care, that doesn't change the fact the actual act of their deaths was cheap and to generate shock and disorientation in the audience. Stop trying to redefine the argument.
I'm redefining the argument because I don't agree with your redefinition of the argument?
You're dead wrong SiL. Their deaths had a meaningful purpose on all levels. They set the bleak and harsh tone of the film and directly contributed to the most poignant, emotional and poetic scene and moment in all of the movies. How is that cheap?
QuoteThat is so rich coming from someone who says that a cast made primarily of faceless -- and in some cases, literally nameless -- prison inmates who exist only to die is actually some profound metaphysical statement about God and man's place in the universe, but that using contemporary conventions in Aliens to set a mood and expectation that gets flipped on its head is a sign of shitty, sub-par writing.
You're the one cherry picking, not me. I'm calling spades spades.
That's just your interpretation of it all, not the law of the land. I think we both can agree that we both think that the other one is cherry picking. You're cherry picking SiL, just like me. Check your own post concerning this topic (ALIENS vs then other movies) and you'll see. For the notice I'm not denying that I cherry pick too, the difference is that I'm not trying to camouflage as objective truths like you do, calling a spade a spade...
QuoteBy pointing out that its ending is no happier than Alien's...? Because that's really the only compliment I've given it. You must really, really f**king hate the movie to see someone saying "It's not happier than the original" as the same as saying "It's flawless". Get a grip.
No, you have defended it in more ways than that through the years. Whenever someone critiques ALIENS for whatever reason you're one of many knights in shiny white armor defending it no matter what.
I don't hate ALIENS, I'm just tired of its special exempt status and the way other movies are always compared to it as if it is the pinnacle of movie making. ALIENS has it qualities - it is entertaining and is very well-made technically, but it is quite cheesy and the end is really silly and really ruins it for me.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 14, 2016, 08:16:37 PM
You're cherry picking SiL, just like me.
I'm not, I'm only responding to the arguments you're making. You criticize
Aliens' happy ending, I point out it's no happier than
Alien, etc. That's not cherry picking.
QuoteNo, you have defended it in more ways than that through the years. Whenever someone critiques ALIENS for whatever reason you're one of many knights in shiny white armor defending it no matter what.
You're either confusing me with someone else or you're pulling this out your arse to try to make some sort of point. I give each film credit where it's due and no more -- even for the ones I love. I defend against limp arguments but wholeheartedly agree with ones that point out actual flaws.
This whole thing started because you attacked
Aliens for being mainstream but try to jump hoops to make
Alien sound otherwise. They're both mainstream movies aimed at broad audiences, throwing shit on one and not the other is just your bias at play. I'm not trashing
Alien or making
Aliens sound like a flawless masterpiece by pointing out they're both very Hollywood films.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 14, 2016, 08:16:37 PM
SIL
QuoteThey died off-screen in their sleep -- that's not glorious. Their death can be "honoured" to high hell later for all I care, that doesn't change the fact the actual act of their deaths was cheap and to generate shock and disorientation in the audience. Stop trying to redefine the argument.
I'm redefining the argument because I don't agree with your redefinition of the argument?
You're dead wrong SiL. Their deaths had a meaningful purpose on all levels. They set the bleak and harsh tone of the film and directly contributed to the most poignant, emotional and poetic scene and moment in all of the movies. How is that cheap?
In all fairness, I don't think those deaths affected the story that much either; the funeral scene is the only scene in the film that references their deaths. Newt had an extra autopsy scene but it's pretty clear that was just for shock value, in fact the original autopsy scene was deemed to bloody by test audiences that they had to cut out a LOT of footage. If their deaths were that significant then I think they would have been mentioned more often in the script; Hicks is barely talked about at all.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 14, 2016, 08:16:37 PM
I don't hate ALIENS, I'm just tired of its special exempt status and the way other movies are always compared to it as if it is the pinnacle of movie making. ALIENS has it qualities - it is entertaining and is very well-made technically, but it is quite cheesy and the end is really silly and really ruins it for me.
I respect this, I know what it's like when the general population holds a movie to the highest regards that they overlook every single one of its flaws (Star Wars: Episode VII is the most obvious example) and then trash another movie whom possess those exact same weaknesses. It's important to analyze even the best and worst movies in the same light (including Aliens); just because a great movie has flaws doesn't mean its worse, it just means its better for having a great story that overcomes those flaws.
I think people get too wound up in trying to figure out the flaws in movies that they like, they ruin it for themselves. There is no such thing as a perfect anything, when you find something you love, just enjoy it. If you keep scratching and picking at it then it turns into a bloody mess.
It's like saying the ending of aliens is cheesy, totally subjective, it is for some people and isn't to others.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 14, 2016, 08:31:59 PM
I'm not, I'm only responding to the arguments you're making. You criticize Aliens' happy ending, I point out it's no happier than Alien, etc. That's not cherry picking.
But it
IS happier than ALIEN. You're cherry picking when you compare the two movies and endings based on the structural makeup of each movie. It's like saying that pee and wine is the same thing as they're both liquids.
QuoteYou're either confusing me with someone else or you're pulling this out your arse to try to make some sort of point. I give each film credit where it's due and no more -- even for the ones I love. I defend against limp arguments but wholeheartedly agree with ones that point out actual flaws.
We've had similar discussions before you and I, but also with other people. Anyhow, I doubt it that you and I will see eye to eye on this. You seem to believe that you're as objective as one can be. We're both prestigious obviously. So yeah, guess we could argue about this forever.
QuoteThis whole thing started because you attacked Aliens for being mainstream but try to jump hoops to make Alien sound otherwise.
No I didn't. But I guess me daring to question ALIENS without questioning ALIEN as well qualifies as felony. ALIEN is mainstream too, obviously, but it's not the same kind of mainstream as ALIENS - not even close.
QuoteThey're both mainstream movies aimed at broad audiences, throwing shit on one and not the other is just your bias at play. I'm not trashing Alien or making Aliens sound like a flawless masterpiece by pointing out they're both very Hollywood films.
Wow, first time you acknowledged that! Fact still remains that I haven't seen you scrutinize and pick apart ALIENS as you do with the other movies, especially A3.
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 14, 2016, 09:04:35 PM
But it IS happier than ALIEN. You're cherry picking when you compare the two movies and endings based on the structural makeup of each movie. It's like saying that pee and wine is the same thing as they're both liquids.
Both movies end with the character(s) fulfilling their goal and going to sleep peacefully. That's not cherry picking. Ripley wanted to survive in
Alien, she got it. She wanted to survive and protect Newt, she got it. Both films end with the characters safe and satisfied; family or not,
that's just dressing.
QuoteWe've had similar discussions before you and I,
Yeah, and you always march out the same arguments and I march out the same counterarguments. That's why you think it's repetitive.
QuoteNo I didn't.
Um:
QuoteALIEN is mainstream too, obviously, but it's not the same kind of mainstream as ALIENS - not even close.
This. This is what I'm talking about. This is cherry picking, this is melodrama, this is bias, this is
dumb.
Alien wasn't some midnight movie. It wasn't an underground sleeper hit. It wasn't a video nasty. It was a 20th Century Fox production, made because sci-fi and horror were "in" and they thought they could make a buck from it. It's a mainstream horror film from the 70s every bit as much as
Aliens was a mainstream action/horror from the 80s. They were both designed to attract large audiences and make money.
There is no "grade", no "type". They were both made to make their audiences happy. Their audiences were largely the same people, but trends had changed in the 80s. If
Alien had been made 10 years later, it would have been a
very different film, even with the same people.
QuoteFact still remains that I haven't seen you scrutinize and pick apart ALIENS as you do with the other movies, especially A3.
Then you haven't read many of my posts, because I've done it plenty in the past.
Everyone here can vouch for that. Hell,
Colin f**king Strause, co-director of
AvP: Requiem, could tell you I don't like
Aliens, because he
personally derided me for the fact on this Forum.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 08:43:57 PMIn all fairness, I don't think those deaths affected the story that much either; the funeral scene is the only scene in the film that references their deaths.
Every time you say this, and every time you miss the point that their deaths completely establish Ripley's character for the entire film. And her character in the movie is one of the pivotal threads.
If they hadn't died, she would be a very different person. She would've been far more hopeful if they were still alive, whereas she's truthfully kinda given up. That entire angle is created by their deaths. So it hardly had zero impact on the story.
Well, I didn't see any change in Ripley's character at all, hopeful or not.
You know I think it's safe to say that AVPR did not improve with age. All anyone wants to talk about in the AVP Films forum is Alien³. :laugh:
That escalated quickly indeed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 15, 2016, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 08:43:57 PMIn all fairness, I don't think those deaths affected the story that much either; the funeral scene is the only scene in the film that references their deaths.
Every time you say this, and every time you miss the point that their deaths completely establish Ripley's character for the entire film. And her character in the movie is one of the pivotal threads.
If they hadn't died, she would be a very different person. She would've been far more hopeful if they were still alive, whereas she's truthfully kinda given up. That entire angle is created by their deaths. So it hardly had zero impact on the story.
I know people have different interpretations of this, but for me ridding her of those two characters made her arc throughout the rest of the movie very hollow. Had she killed herself after Bishop II promised to reunite her with Newt (rather than the blatantly empty, "Eh, we'll give you a new
er life!") and she turned it down, that would have been very powerful. Battering her into submission from the beginning deflated the whole character for me, as powerful as Weaver's performance was.
And I never thought I'd see the day where SiL was derided as some
Aliens fanboi...
That's not to mention that Alan Dean Foster wanted to write the novelization of the movie with Newt still alive and trapped in hypersleep; this shows that even if Newt had lived then Ripley's actions in Alien 3 wouldn't have changed that much.
My white hot hatred for this film has diminished over the years. Watching the disposable, retarded, and fake looking Aliens doesn't piss me off on a cellular level anymore. I've gotten over that. The movie is still unwatchable, only now its the scenes with the characters and their stupid problems of teen angst, reformed criminal, and mother who cant relate to daughter bullshit that kills it.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 15, 2016, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 14, 2016, 08:43:57 PMIn all fairness, I don't think those deaths affected the story that much either; the funeral scene is the only scene in the film that references their deaths.
Every time you say this, and every time you miss the point that their deaths completely establish Ripley's character for the entire film. And her character in the movie is one of the pivotal threads.
If they hadn't died, she would be a very different person. She would've been far more hopeful if they were still alive, whereas she's truthfully kinda given up. That entire angle is created by their deaths. So it hardly had zero impact on the story.
THIS!
How was she more or less hopeful than in the other films? That's what I don't get. In Alan Dean Foster's original version, Newt lives and book Ripley does everything movie Ripley does.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 15, 2016, 07:51:52 AM
Both movies end with the character(s) fulfilling their goal and going to sleep peacefully. That's not cherry picking. Ripley wanted to survive in Alien, she got it. She wanted to survive and protect Newt, she got it. Both films end with the characters safe and satisfied; family or not, that's just dressing.
Like I said, cherry picking...
Now we're just repeating ourselves. You purposely miss my points and arguments and thus I don't buy into your points and arguments because they never meet. It's like we're just discussing out if prestige :o
QuoteYeah, and you always march out the same arguments and I march out the same counterarguments. That's why you think it's repetitive.
At least we can agree that it's repetitive.
QuoteNo I didn't.Quote
Um:
Um?
QuoteThis. This is what I'm talking about. This is cherry picking, this is melodrama, this is bias, this is dumb.
Alien wasn't some midnight movie. It wasn't an underground sleeper hit. It wasn't a video nasty. It was a 20th Century Fox production, made because sci-fi and horror were "in" and they thought they could make a buck from it. It's a mainstream horror film from the 70s every bit as much as Aliens was a mainstream action/horror from the 80s. They were both designed to attract large audiences and make money.
I never said that wasn't case, SiL.
QuoteThere is no "grade", no "type". They were both made to make their audiences happy. Their audiences were largely the same people, but trends had changed in the 80s. If Alien had been made 10 years later, it would have been a very different film, even with the same people.
Of course it would've been different. Directors change, directing change, trends change etc. ALIEN came out the right time. However, ALIENS tried to hold onto the illusion of realism, in an 80s kind of way, most of the movie, but dropped the ball badly in the end. The last 20+ minutes are inexcusable and broke the contract so to speak, be it a 70s sci-fi horror movie or an 80s sic-fi action movie. It broke the contract of realism that it tried to establish through most of the movie and thus cheapened it.
QuoteThen you haven't read many of my posts, because I've done it plenty in the past. Everyone here can vouch for that. Hell, Colin f**king Strause, co-director of AvP: Requiem, could tell you I don't like Aliens, because he personally derided me for the fact on this Forum.
I've read many of your posts SiL, but I must have missed your Colin Strause posts. I'll check them out. Anyways, you never acknowledge ALIENS's weaknesses and flaws when discussing it with me, but you are more than happy whipping and slapping A3 for its flaws and weaknesses as if I'm not aware of them. And in order to enforce your arguments you usually bring up dry comparisons between ALIEN and ALIENS, because you know I'm a fan of the former.
f**k no! Are you high?
QuoteYou sweat through the movie and never enter action hero territory as you do in ALIENS (Rambo Ripley cleaning up the Hive, and Powerloader vs. Queen Godzilla fight, and Ripley climbing up a ladder with a Powerloader and alien queen hanging on her foot while being sucked into space).
The first film had Ripley charging into danger, torching would-be eggs with a flame thrower, spearing the alien after stripping to her panties, and blasting away from a nuclear explosion. The only difference in the second film is there were more monsters to deal with.
Comparing the queen to Godzilla is way off. She's not
that much bigger than a regular alien (she can fit inside an elevator), and obviously not as heavy as you seem to think she is. The ladder thing is a non-issue.
You keep writing off the Powerloader battle as cheesy or whatever but have yet to explain what makes it so. Again, you can't compare it to Godzilla. The tension and execution of that scene is miles and miles above anything seen in a Toho film.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 18, 2016, 03:51:30 AM
The first film had Ripley charging into danger, torching would-be eggs with a flame thrower, spearing the alien after stripping to her panties, and blasting away from a nuclear explosion. The only difference in the second film is there were more monsters to deal with.
She never charged into danger. She was always on the run, dodging and fleeing, panicking and in primal survival mode. She never entered the belly of the beast single handed to face IT face-to-face.
She was in a spacesuit, scared shitless. She strapped herself into a chair before pushing the vent buttons. In ALIENS she was being all one-liner cool, fighting the big bad boss alien in a mech suit. Then she managed to climb up the ladder - while being pulled into space, with a huge alien and a sic-fi forklift linked to her foot - that IS cheesy.
QuoteComparing the queen to Godzilla is way off. She's not that much bigger than a regular alien (she can fit inside an elevator), and obviously not as heavy as you seem to think she is. The ladder thing is a non-issue.
How is that in any kind of way a non-issue?
Also, the Queen is about double the total size of a regular Alien Adult.
QuoteYou keep writing off the Powerloader battle as cheesy or whatever but have yet to explain what makes it so. Again, you can't compare it to Godzilla. The tension and execution of that scene is miles and miles above anything seen in a Toho film.
I have explained it a billion times. I'm more interested to hear what makes the powerloader fight not cheesy, because it is cheesy and out of character compared to ALIEN and the first two thirds of ALIENS.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 17, 2016, 12:16:53 AM
How was she more or less hopeful than in the other films? That's what I don't get. In Alan Dean Foster's original version, Newt lives and book Ripley does everything movie Ripley does.
You've not read that version and can't attest to how well it works. Can I just try to get the point your trying to make because I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say. All I've managed so far is that Hicks and Newt's death was cheap and done to avoid paying them?
Personally I'd be very interested in reading that original version. Whilst I do love Alien 3 and the hopeless feel of it, I would be very interested in seeing some alternate methods of motivating Ripley while keeping the others alive. I do think it could potentially be done with the others being lost in space, or Ripley simply believing them to be dead. Could make that last decision to jump more powerful with her being told that they're still alive.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 16, 2016, 04:32:53 PMThat's not to mention that Alan Dean Foster wanted to write the novelization of the movie with Newt still alive and trapped in hypersleep; this shows that even if Newt had lived then Ripley's actions in Alien 3 wouldn't have changed that much.
No, it shows ADF didn't like that she died.
As Hicks said, no one's ever read that version, so no one's in any position to specify how it would or would not have affected the story.
QuoteShe never charged into danger. She was always on the run, dodging and fleeing, panicking and in primal survival mode. She never entered the belly of the beast single handed to face IT face-to-face.
She was in a spacesuit, scared shitless. She strapped herself into a chair before pushing the vent buttons. In ALIENS she was being all one-liner cool, fighting the big bad boss alien in a mech suit. Then she managed to climb up the ladder - while being pulled into space, with a huge alien and a sic-fi forklift linked to her foot - that IS cheesy.
She ran to help Lambert and Parker, but didn't get there in time. She was willing to go in the vents but Dallas said no. She showed tons of fear in Aliens. She fought only when she had to help others. Her only one-liner was "Get away from her you BITCH!" which was delivered with fierce emotion, not cool detachment. Ripley's portrayal is consistent with the first film.
QuoteHow is that in any kind of way a non-issue?
Your not describing it correctly for one thing, which I'm sure is intentional. The Powerloader fell away as soon as the doors opened. Ripley stopped climbing when the queen grabbed her. She even screamed in pain before the queen lost her grip. I don't have stats and figures on how much weight a human body can withstand in various situations so I can't gauge how realistic it was but who the hell cares? The tension didn't stop until until Ripley shut that door. That's what matters.
QuoteAlso, the Queen is about double the total size of a regular Alien Adult
Correct.
QuoteI have explained it a billion times. I'm more interested to hear what makes the powerloader fight not cheesy, because it is cheesy and out of character compared to ALIEN and the first two thirds of ALIENS.
Simple execution is what made that that fight great. The lack of a musical score made the sound effects so visceral. Weaver's performance and the way the opponents moved totally sold it. And, as with every other scene in this movie, the tension was through the roof. Toho could've learned something watching that scene. You probably think the mere occurrence of a boss battle makes it cheesy by default. That's on you. The film's success proves that most folks loved it.
No point in explaining why the ending of Aliens is amazing, the film speaks for itself and it is excellent.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2016, 09:00:06 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 17, 2016, 12:16:53 AM
How was she more or less hopeful than in the other films? That's what I don't get. In Alan Dean Foster's original version, Newt lives and book Ripley does everything movie Ripley does.
You've not read that version and can't attest to how well it works. Can I just try to get the point your trying to make because I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say. All I've managed so far is that Hicks and Newt's death was cheap and done to avoid paying them?
My point in bringing up ADF's version is that Newt's death could hardly be that important if it could be so easily deleted or re-written. Compare it to Amanda Ripley's death in Aliens; many could say that her death "sets the tone of the film" and sets up Ripley's future relationship with Newt thus making it an "integral" part of the story, however the detail was so minor that it was eventually cut from the theatrical release of the film. This is the same for Alien 3, as many fans here have stated if you cut Aliens and the death of its cast in Alien 3 then the movie makes a perfect sequel to the original Alien. My biggest gripe about Alien 3 is that instead of building on Aliens' story, it instead does everything it can to ignore it instead.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 06:05:35 PMMy point in bringing up ADF's version is that Newt's death could hardly be that important if it could be so easily deleted or re-written.
And you've ready Foster's original manuscript and know that for sure?
Hill and Giler made him re-write it precisely because it
was too different from the movie they'd made.
That's my point, if the plot point could be so easily rewritten then it can't be integral to the story in the first place.
I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse...
By keeping Hicks and Newt alive Foster altered the story, the producers didn't approve of him doing a book that was so different from the film so they made him rewrite it.
Of course it was easy to rewrite it so they don't die. It would be easy to rewrite it so Ripley isn't in it at all. But then it wouldn't be the same story, would it.
As stated, you haven't read the script either so you can't say for sure that the book changed to as great an extent as you are suggesting. I've read many of Alan Dean Foster's novelizations including both Transformers movies (and their corresponding prequels), the Alien Trilogy, and Terminator: Salvation and he always does a great job with the material he's given.
The important part of this post is that ADF was going to rewrite Alien 3 so that Newt stayed alive but Ripley's actions would ultimately have been the same as in the movie, therefore Newt's death could hardly be considered integral. ADF does something similar in Terminator: Salvation where the story is essentially 95% the same but he does provide an alternate ending than the one provided in the movie (and no, it's not the one where John Connor dies and Marcus puts on his face to masquerade as the new savior of humanity).
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 18, 2016, 11:39:33 AM
She ran to help Lambert and Parker, but didn't get there in time. She was willing to go in the vents but Dallas said no.
That's different. In ALIEN she was backed up by her crew and she had no idea how dangerous the Alien actually is. She never saw it with her own eyes until AFTER she ran into the maimed and mutilated corpses of Parker and Lambert.
In ALIENS she taped big ass guns together and walked in all alone into the hive, for all she knew could've been teaming with adult Aliens. Explosions, fire, hellish forms and shapes... That's a different story altogether.
QuoteShe showed tons of fear in Aliens. She fought only when she had to help others. Her only one-liner was "Get away from her you BITCH!" which was delivered with fierce emotion, not cool detachment. Ripley's portrayal is consistent with the first film.
True. But her body language and facial expressions were different. She was looking all confident, fierce, cocky and ballsy as if it was no big deal, as if Newt wouldn't have been there she would've exterminated the whole nest by herself.
Ripley's portrayal is NOT consistent with the first film or the first two thirds of the movie. The end of ALIENS fits in better with A:R or AVP than ALIEN or A3.
QuoteYour not describing it correctly for one thing, which I'm sure is intentional. The Powerloader fell away as soon as the doors opened. Ripley stopped climbing when the queen grabbed her. She even screamed in pain before the queen lost her grip. I don't have stats and figures on how much weight a human body can withstand in various situations so I can't gauge how realistic it was but who the hell cares? The tension didn't stop until until Ripley shut that door. That's what matters.
Fact still remains that she DEFIED the laws of physics in a really silly way, with our without the powerloader shackled to her and the queen. She should've been sucked into space like piece of dust in front of a vacuum cleaner. But no, super hero Ripley didn't only manage to hold on for her dear life, she also managed to freaking climb up a ladder, flip open a hatch in order to close the bulkhead...
QuoteSimple execution is what made that that fight great. The lack of a musical score made the sound effects so visceral. Weaver's performance and the way the opponents moved totally sold it. And, as with every other scene in this movie, the tension was through the roof. Toho could've learned something watching that scene. You probably think the mere occurrence of a boss battle makes it cheesy by default. That's on you. The film's success proves that most folks loved it.
Don't get me wrong, the technical aspects of that scene are amazing and Cameron is great at what he does. I mean, when I was a kid that scene was the coolest thing I've ever seen. But I didn't have to revisit ALIENS that many times in order to realize that the movie has a lot of two-dimensional characters, cheesy dialogue and an ending that is just out of character.
People who criticize A:R for it's cartoony characters, dialogue and over the top scenes but praise ALIENS for doing everything right be aware that ALIENS is just as close to A:R as it is to ALIEN.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Jan 18, 2016, 01:55:53 PM
No point in explaining why the ending of Aliens is amazing.
Amazingly stupid maybe.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
The important part of this post is that ADF was going to rewrite Alien 3 so that Newt stayed alive but Ripley's actions would ultimately have been the same as in the movie, therefore Newt's death could hardly be considered integral.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 06:59:43 PM
As stated, you haven't read the script either so you can't say for sure that the book changed to as great an extent as you are suggesting.
And once again, I re-iterate that neither can you know to what extant it changed the story. You can be as interested as I am to see the results but you can't go around saying with certainly that it wasn't integral because you don't know that. You can keep throwing up the subject of ADF and his rewrite but it means absolutely nothing for the point you are trying to make.
Yes, I haven't read the script either but I have read 8 of ADF's other novelizations. As I said before, ADF altered Terminator: Salvation's storyline as well where a character that was supposed to die in that story doesn't and the story is hardly changed at all. To say that ADF keeping Newt alive would have altered the story to the point similar to Ripley not being in the story itself is WAY too big a claim to make.
Regardless of our opinions on the rewrite, it's pretty safe to say that if ADF wanted to make a drastic change to Alien 3's plot then he would have had Newt awaken from hypersleep alive rather than still be trapped within it in a death-like state.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 08:29:54 PM
Yes, I haven't read the script either but I have read 8 of ADF's other novelizations. As I said before, ADF altered Terminator: Salvation's storyline as well where a character that was supposed to die in that story doesn't and the story is hardly changed at all. To say that ADF keeping Newt alive would have altered the story to the point similar to Ripley not being in the story itself is WAY too big a claim to make.
You can't say that for certain that it wouldn't. And you should stop trying to. It all depends on execution.
I edited my previous post, you might have missed it:
QuoteRegardless of our opinions on the rewrite, it's pretty safe to say that if ADF wanted to make a drastic change to Alien 3's plot then he would have had Newt awaken from hypersleep alive rather than still be trapped within it in a death-like state.
So I
can say for certain that ADF altered Alien 3's story only to the point where Newt can survive WITHOUT interfering with the original plot. If anyone thinks otherwise, then I am certainly open to hearing the explanation of why ADF chose to keep Newt in hypersleep if he wanted his version of the story to be so drastically different from the script he was given.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 08:57:59 PM
So I can say for certain that ADF altered Alien 3's story only to the point where Newt can survive WITHOUT interfering with the original plot.
No you can't because
you don't know. All we know if that it changed the story enough that the producers wanted it changed back.
I do agree that ADF probably kept her alive in hyperspace. Or in some sort of coma on Fury. But it makes a big deal to Ripley's character. ADF himself said that by killing Newt they removed Ripley's motivation to keep living.
It can hardly be a big deal if Ripley performs all the same actions in the revised book as she does in the movie. Yes, you can pull the "I don't know" card but ADF has changed the plot points of so many movies that we do, in fact, have a way of accurately gauging how Alien 3 would have been affected had Newt lived. ADF also wrote the story for Star Wars: The Force Awakens, in this plot Starkiller Base operates very differently from the movie.
QuoteInstead of slurping on stars like they're hot, plasma-laden smoothies, Starkiller Base is powered by dark matter, which seems like a much more sustainable source of energy. In the film, when the base's weapon fires, it shoots a single beam of energy across hundreds of thousands of miles... that then somehow inexplicably splits into 5 separate, pre-targeted beams to blow up the Republic Capital world Hosnian Prime, its four moons, and the New Republic's fleet.
It's really stupid.
In the book however, it plays out far differently. Starkiller Base doesn't shoot a gigantic beam, but a ball of energy that is shot through sub-hyperspace, making it disappear just outside of the base, and then reappear just outside of its intended target. The ball of energy supercharges the target planet's core, making it go supernova and burn up any nearby planets in the ensuing explosion. It's still very silly Star Wars science, but way better than what we got.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-11-biggest-differences-between-the-book-and-movie-v-1749329046 (http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-11-biggest-differences-between-the-book-and-movie-v-1749329046)
Fans will argue that how Starkiller Base operates is an essential plot point to how the movie is ultimately portrayed yet despite all these changes ADF's plot is essentially consistent with the movie it's based on; the same characters who live and die in the movie also live and die in the book as well.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 09:16:09 PM
It can hardly be a big deal if Ripley performs all the same actions in the revised book as she does in the movie. Yes, you can pull the "I don't know" card but ADF has changed the plot points of so many movies that we do, in fact, have a way of accurately gauging how Alien 3 would have been affected had Newt lived.
That's the point. We don't know how it played out. As has been pointed out, it was different enough the producers asked for it not to be done. And you want to keep throwing out how ADF said he wanted to keep Newt alive, then you can also take him saying that Newt's death "
also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive."
I don't know how many times we can go around this particular dance. But it's as black and white as that. Those are your
facts.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 18, 2016, 09:39:04 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 09:16:09 PM
It can hardly be a big deal if Ripley performs all the same actions in the revised book as she does in the movie. Yes, you can pull the "I don't know" card but ADF has changed the plot points of so many movies that we do, in fact, have a way of accurately gauging how Alien 3 would have been affected had Newt lived.
That's the point. We don't know how it played out. As has been pointed out, it was different enough the producers asked for it not to be done. And you want to keep throwing out how ADF said he wanted to keep Newt alive, then you can also take him saying that Newt's death "also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive."
I don't know how many times we can go around this particular dance. But it's as black and white as that. Those are your facts.
Yes, you're right when you say we will never know
how it played out, but I have also drawn up multiple other examples of ADF's work that we could rely on to constitute a close approximation to what would have happened. ADF has been known to alter plot points in many of his books yet despite that their storylines are all preserved to match that of the script they originated from; this is
evidence that can't be simply handwaved aside.
Not really. All of those are absolutely seperate incidents. Each film/novel is a completely seperate case. Because his changes to one title in particular didn't drastically alter the story, doesn't mean that might not have altered it for Alien 3. What you have is the evidence that the changes were notable enough that the producers didn't want it.
All ADF's books are separate stories, yes, but I fail to discern how that automatically makes them irrelevant; they were each written by the same author and that same author always has a style he brings to any book (every author does). I don't see how what the various studios deemed acceptable or unacceptable fits in because while one studio may be nitpicky, another studio may just recognize a good story when it sees it.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 06:59:43 PMAs stated, you haven't read the script either so you can't say for sure that the book changed to as great an extent as you are suggesting.
I'm honestly not sure what you think your argument is based on...
The
only hard evidence we have regarding the
Alien 3 novel rewrites shows ADF's alterations changed the story sufficiently for it to be an issue with the producers. It's therefore pretty daft to argue his alterations didn't change the story.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 19, 2016, 08:56:35 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 18, 2016, 06:59:43 PMAs stated, you haven't read the script either so you can't say for sure that the book changed to as great an extent as you are suggesting.
I'm honestly not sure what you think your argument is based on...
He's basing it on ADF did alterations to other novelizations that didn't drastically change the stories.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 09:40:44 AMHe's basing it on ADF did alterations to other novelizations that didn't drastically change the stories.
???
But... they're completely unrelated novels.
I know. I know.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 09:40:44 AM
He's basing it on ADF did alterations to other novelizations that didn't drastically change the stories.
Though I question whether ADF's "alterations" were merely the result of using early drafts of scripts as the basis. Ya know? Some differences do crop up in that regard.
For clarities sake, here's what he told me back in 06:
QuoteCorporal Hicks – The third novel, like the film itself, had quite a bit trouble coming into making. Would you care to explain just what problems you faced while writing the Alien3 novel?
Alan Dean Foster – So many things did not make sense, from character motivation to the science. For example, two characters trying to find still functioning batteries from a pile of same...as if D-cells will still be power sources three hundred years from now. And the killing of the little girl, Newt, was as big an obscenity as anything I've encountered in modern film. It also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive. Shaving Ripley's head...one more visual excuse for scriptorial ineptness. If you can't write plot and character, try to dazzle 'em with smoke and mirrors. My initial version included such things as histories and motivations for many of the convicts; why they had been sentenced to such a world, etc. I also invented a way to rationalize Newt's not dying but also not participating in the story. The producers forced Warner and I to remove all of it, and more. Following the screenplay exactly 'would make a better book', as I recall the wording.
Corporal Hicks – How difficult was it trying to write such a novel when you didn't know how it would end or what might happen to the characters?
Alan Dean Foster – Actually, I did know. But things often change during production, between the time the manuscript is approved for production and the film's final cut.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alan-dean-foster/
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 19, 2016, 09:56:35 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 09:40:44 AMHe's basing it on ADF did alterations to other novelizations that didn't drastically change the stories.
???
But... they're completely unrelated novels.
So your argument is basically that ADF keeps to the scripts of all the novelizations he has ever written except for Alien 3 where, for some reason, he has thrown the idea of consistency completely to the wind?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 09:59:54 AM
For clarities sake, here's what he told me back in 06:
QuoteCorporal Hicks – The third novel, like the film itself, had quite a bit trouble coming into making. Would you care to explain just what problems you faced while writing the Alien3 novel?
Alan Dean Foster – So many things did not make sense, from character motivation to the science. For example, two characters trying to find still functioning batteries from a pile of same...as if D-cells will still be power sources three hundred years from now. And the killing of the little girl, Newt, was as big an obscenity as anything I've encountered in modern film. It also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive. Shaving Ripley's head...one more visual excuse for scriptorial ineptness. If you can't write plot and character, try to dazzle 'em with smoke and mirrors. My initial version included such things as histories and motivations for many of the convicts; why they had been sentenced to such a world, etc. I also invented a way to rationalize Newt's not dying but also not participating in the story. The producers forced Warner and I to remove all of it, and more. Following the screenplay exactly 'would make a better book', as I recall the wording.
Corporal Hicks – How difficult was it trying to write such a novel when you didn't know how it would end or what might happen to the characters?
Alan Dean Foster – Actually, I did know. But things often change during production, between the time the manuscript is approved for production and the film's final cut.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/website/interviews/alan-dean-foster/
With the passage of time, the release of such a book would not really create confusion in relation to the film. So how epic would it be if ADF were able to release this "alternate" Alien 3 book? I mean just as something for the fans. I know it will not happen, because this sort of thing just never does happen, but it would probably be a great read...
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 05:02:42 PMSo your argument is basically that ADF keeps to the scripts of all the novelizations he has ever written except for Alien 3 where, for some reason, he has thrown the idea of consistency completely to the wind?
My argument is what he may or may not have done with another book has literally zero bearing on what you're trying to argue. The simple fact is he clearly made some changes to move the book away from the script, because that's the reason the producers asked him to change it back.
And I'm saying that ADF has done this before with other books and those books provide an indicator as to how different Alien 3 would have been. It should be reminded that ADF could have Newt awaken in his novelization, but instead he kept her in a death-like trance to not deviate too much from the script he was provided where Newt died.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 19, 2016, 05:38:57 PM
With the passage of time, the release of such a book would not really create confusion in relation to the film. So how epic would it be if ADF were able to release this "alternate" Alien 3 book? I mean just as something for the fans. I know it will not happen, because this sort of thing just never does happen, but it would probably be a great read...
Pretty sure he's actually dead. But it would be really cool if someone published that original version.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 05:55:26 PM
And I'm saying that ADF has done this before with other books and those books provide an indicator as to how different Alien 3 would have been. It should be reminded that ADF could have Newt awaken in his novelization, but instead he kept her in a death-like trance to not deviate too much from the script he was provided where Newt died.
Have you got some extra information about his early Alien 3 novelization?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 19, 2016, 05:44:40 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 05:02:42 PMSo your argument is basically that ADF keeps to the scripts of all the novelizations he has ever written except for Alien 3 where, for some reason, he has thrown the idea of consistency completely to the wind?
My argument is what he may or may not have done with another book has literally zero bearing on what you're trying to argue. The simple fact is he clearly made some changes to move the book away from the script, because that's the reason the producers asked him to change it back.
This. ^^
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 06:00:18 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 05:55:26 PM
And I'm saying that ADF has done this before with other books and those books provide an indicator as to how different Alien 3 would have been. It should be reminded that ADF could have Newt awaken in his novelization, but instead he kept her in a death-like trance to not deviate too much from the script he was provided where Newt died.
Have you got some extra information about his early Alien 3 novelization?
I have the same information that you have of the interviews ADF gave us. It's pretty clear to any Alien fan that ADF wanted to keep things consistent, to a degree, with the script hence that's why Newt has never woken up from hypersleep. Your argument is essentially that ADF is capable of keeping all of his novelizations to the script but for Alien 3
exclusively he went completely out of it and wrote a book that had nothing at all to do with the script, which in itself is pretty unbelievable.
This is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
2) When a character is killed in the intro of a horror movie, it's always for shock value rather than plot value (e.g. The Grudge sequels, Cabin Fever 2, Hostel 2).
3) ADF is capable of writing amazing books that while slightly different from the script still keep to the story (e.g. Terminator: Salvation, Star Wars: The Force Awakens).I'm a fan of AVPR, arguably the worst received movie in the entire series, and even I wouldn't dream of exempting it from one, let alone three, established rule(s) in the film entertainment industry:
1) Horror movies centering teens are often cheap and/or poorly portrayed.
2) When a horror movie kills pregnant women and children, it's more for shock value than plot value.
You're completely missing the points and the facts, xeno.
His initial attempts to "fix" the script was significantly different enough that the producers asked him to stick to the script.
QuoteThis is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
2) When a character is killed in the intro of a horror movie, it's always for shock value rather than plot value (e.g. The Grudge sequels, Cabin Fever 2, Hostel 2).
Just because it's common place, doesn't make it a rule. If they are rules, I must have missed those lessons when I was studying film in college.
I'm not saying that the killing of the characters wasn't for convenience, just that they actually worked in into the movie itself. Specifically in the tone of the film and the motivation towards Ripley. Yes, it could have been differently to achieve similar character effects but as ADF himself said - and you like to keep bringing up ADFs opinions - " It also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive." It does effect her character.
Quote3) ADF is capable of writing amazing books that while slightly different from the script still keep to the story (e.g. Terminator: Salvation, Star Wars: The Force Awakens).
Just because he's done it before, doesn't mean that was the case this time around. Obviously it was different enough to want get the producers to ask him to return to the original script.
That said, I feel like I'm wasting my time trying to have a chat with you because you're just not taking it in or willing to accept anything other than what you're saying.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 06:00:18 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 19, 2016, 05:38:57 PM
With the passage of time, the release of such a book would not really create confusion in relation to the film. So how epic would it be if ADF were able to release this "alternate" Alien 3 book? I mean just as something for the fans. I know it will not happen, because this sort of thing just never does happen, but it would probably be a great read...
Pretty sure he's actually dead. But it would be really cool if someone published that original version.
Alan Dean Foster? Dead? For a moment there I experienced a splinter of my mind's eye. Oh, he alive. He's 69 years old, unless Wikipedia is out of touch.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Dean_Foster
Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking Robert Sheckley who wrote the adaptation of Alien Harvest.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 19, 2016, 10:53:06 PM
You're completely missing the points and the facts, xeno.
His initial attempts to "fix" the script was significantly different enough that the producers asked him to stick to the script.
QuoteThis is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
2) When a character is killed in the intro of a horror movie, it's always for shock value rather than plot value (e.g. The Grudge sequels, Cabin Fever 2, Hostel 2).
Just because it's common place, doesn't make it a rule. If they are rules, I must have missed those lessons when I was studying film in college.
I'm not saying that the killing of the characters wasn't for convenience, just that they actually worked in into the movie itself. Specifically in the tone of the film and the motivation towards Ripley. Yes, it could have been differently to achieve similar character effects but as ADF himself said - and you like to keep bringing up ADFs opinions - " It also destroys Ripley's motivation for wanting to stay alive." It does effect her character.
So if Newt lived, you're suggesting that instead of sacrificing herself, Ripley would just have handed herself over to W-Y so the bad guys get their Alien and win after everything they have done? This is a VERY questionable ending no matter who's writing. Also, the "rules" I listed aren't so much rules but often followed patterns; there are definitely exceptions to them but those exceptions are almost always instantly popular, which Alien 3 isn't.
I get what you're saying, Hicks' and Newt's death did affect the viewers' interpretation of the movie by making it darker, but likewise could be said for the death of Amanda Ripley encouraging Ripley's relationship with Newt. However, just because it adds to the movie's tone doesn't mean it can't be easily cut from the series as James Cameron did with Aliens and ADF tried to do with Alien 3.
QuoteQuote3) ADF is capable of writing amazing books that while slightly different from the script still keep to the story (e.g. Terminator: Salvation, Star Wars: The Force Awakens).
Just because he's done it before, doesn't mean that was the case this time around. Obviously it was different enough to want get the producers to ask him to return to the original script.
That said, I feel like I'm wasting my time trying to have a chat with you because you're just not taking it in or willing to accept anything other than what you're saying.
I feel more or less the same way, with all due respect it's like arguing with a Creationist; Darwinians will argue that evolution exists because there are patterns in the fossil record demonstrating that species appear to be changing over millions of years to become new creatures entirely. The creationist will continuously argue that regardless of the evidence, no one can ever prove that evolution exists (the process takes millions of years) and therefore all evidence in that manner should be tossed aside. The creationist will also argue that it's equally likely that God decided to create all these different animals to be structurally similar to each other and any similarity among them is just coincidental.
This is similar to this argument because despite all the evidence I have put forward (that ADF has written multiple novelizations that don't differ from their respective scripts, plus the fact that Newt is in a death-like sleep is proof that ADF didn't want to stray too far from the script), the opposition continues to argue that it's all coincidence and that if Newt were to survive then the story would have changed so drastically that Ripley may never have sacrificed herself at all and instead given W-Y what they wanted after all the evil things they've done.
Guys, this has gotten way off topic. We're supposed to be talking about how happy stupid Aliens is, remember?
Yes, that's right, I'll back off now, I don't think this debate is really going anywhere anyway.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 01:52:04 AMThis is similar to this argument because despite all the evidence I have put forward...
:laugh: What?!
You haven't produced any evidence, just massive leaps in logic.
On the flipside, the fact the producers made him change the book back to the script version
because it was too different seems not to equate with you.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 01:52:04 AM...Ripley may never have sacrificed herself at all and instead given W-Y what they wanted after all the evil things they've done.
Again I find myself laughing and scratching my head in equal measure. When did anyone
ever say that? All I said was having Newt alive would have altered Ripley's character and given her hope that she doesn't have in the film. No one's ever even suggested it would have drastically altered the ending and doomed the human race to destruction. What a laughable statement.
Like Hicks says, evidently trying to talk you out of your bemusing determination not to accept the
only piece of hard evidence we actually have about the situation is a lost cause.
Can we simply agree then that Newt and Hicks' death helped Alien 3 as much as Amanda Ripley's death helped Aliens? Both deaths paved the way for the storytelling of their respective films, but on the flip side of the coin both can just as easily be removed without affecting the overall plot. I think this is a fair compromise for both our arguments.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 09:04:19 AMCan we simply agree then that Newt and Hicks' death helped Alien 3 as much as Amanda Ripley's death helped Aliens? Both deaths paved the way for the storytelling of their respective films, but on the flip side of the coin both can just as easily be removed without affecting the overall plot.
???
No, because the second film still makes sense without knowing about Amanda - we never even knew she existed in
Alien - whereas if you hacked the death of Newt and Hicks out of the third film it would change things.
Sorry but I haven't been keeping up on current events but what if we were to hack aliens completely out of the picture and have her crash land on Fiorina instead. How much of a difference would that have made?
I'm having the weirdest sense of deja-vu... we already talked about this one didn't we?
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 20, 2016, 02:34:49 AM
Guys, this has gotten way off topic. We're supposed to be talking about how happy stupid Aliens is, remember?
My appologies. Completely forgot. :P Aliens is far too happy and too generic of an action film! >:(
I would like to just point out that I am not being obstinate here. I have acknowledged any reasonable points but between about 5 of us we've completely derailed this thread with multiple topics. Let's get back on topic. If anyone would like to continue specific subjects please let me know and we'll sort out a new topic.
AVP:R is still a disgracefully terrible movie.
Here here!
I am tempted to give it another go soon. It must be about 4/5 years since I last watched it. The AvPs are the only ones I don't have on BR either so maybe its time to upgrade.
Save your money. You don't need a newer format just to confirm you don't like those movies.
I've just watched it and it is exactly as I remembered it. I really don't mind it... sans the same old gripe I have with it.
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 20, 2016, 02:34:49 AM
Guys, this has gotten way off topic. We're supposed to be talking about how happy stupid Aliens is, remember?
Incorrect. It started with some boring good ol undetained A3 bashing and ALIENS appraisal. I just dared to question the tired old mantra, and boy did that upset whole legions of knights in shiny armor!
Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Jan 20, 2016, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 20, 2016, 02:34:49 AM
Guys, this has gotten way off topic. We're supposed to be talking about how happy stupid Aliens is, remember?
Incorrect. It started with some boring good ol undetained A3 bashing and ALIENS appraisal. I just dared to question the tired old mantra, and boy did that upset whole legions of knights in shiny armor!
Well you did say the ending of aliens is stupid and cheesy (which is fantastically incorrect). It's like you are the personification of alien3, sooo very bitter that you weren't as good as the masterpieces that preceded it.
It's like when someone says the ending of jaws is cheesy because you can't blow an air tank up like that, its obvious they just don't get it and they never will. For the record I love the first 3 alien movies, perfect trilogy IMO but I also understand that alien3 just isn't on par with it's predecessors.
Alien will always be my favorite, aliens, alien3, and then Alien Res.
The discussions on the validity of Alien 3 and ADF's adaptation thereof are very interesting, but can we take them elsewhere?
In truth, I think it may be worthwhile to lock this thread as we seem to be in ALMOST unanimous agreement that AVP:R has not aged well. What is more there to say? Perhaps the topic could be revisited in 5 years or on a significant anniversary of the film?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 20, 2016, 11:25:38 AM
Here here!
I am tempted to give it another go soon. It must be about 4/5 years since I last watched it. The AvPs are the only ones I don't have on BR either so maybe its time to upgrade.
Stop giving them your money for terrible movies that you know to be terrible :laugh:
Quote from: Kelgaard on Jan 20, 2016, 11:38:27 AM
Save your money. You don't need a newer format just to confirm you don't like those movies.
The Blu-Ray of AVPR actually does away with much of the lighting issues so that it's easier to see what's going on, however if you do purchase the AVP movies on Blu-Ray I advise you purchase the later releases because some of the earlier releases of AVPR have a glitch in them regarding Jesse's death. I've been told this edition has the corrected version of the film with no glitches:
http://www.amazon.com/Double-Feature-Alien-Predator-Aliens/dp/B00MW0CLK8/ref=sr_1_5?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1453313981&sr=1-5&keywords=avp+movie (http://www.amazon.com/Double-Feature-Alien-Predator-Aliens/dp/B00MW0CLK8/ref=sr_1_5?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1453313981&sr=1-5&keywords=avp+movie)
Lol the first thing the first review says is how the terrible lighting for AvP-R is still present.
Lol, well compared to the DVD it's miles better, can't say if compared to other movies tho.
Lighting is not the issue.
Lighting is the main issue.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
This is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
Hell no that's not a rule.
Quote2) When a character is killed in the intro of a horror movie, it's always for shock value rather than plot value (e.g. The Grudge sequels, Cabin Fever 2, Hostel 2).
It usually starts the plot of the movie rolling, actually.
Quote3) ADF is capable of writing amazing books that while slightly different from the script still keep to the story (e.g. Terminator: Salvation, Star Wars: The Force Awakens).[/b]
This is an established rule of movie fiction ... ?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 20, 2016, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
This is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
Hell no that's not a rule.
So, you know a movie that kills off one of their main characters offscreen that isn't for convenience reasons? ???
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 10:29:22 PM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 20, 2016, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 19, 2016, 06:13:18 PM
This is an argument that's trying to say that Alien 3, the worst received Alien movie according to The Alien Saga documentary, should be considered the exception to not just one but multiple established rules in movie fiction:
1) When a character is killed offscreen, it's always for convenience reasons rather than to tell a good story (e.g. Teriminator 3, Jaws: The Revenge, Independence Day: Resurgence).
Hell no that's not a rule.
So, you know a movie that kills off one of their main characters offscreen that isn't for convenience reasons? ???
Surely Alien? With both Dallas (excluding DC) and Lambert being killed offscreen.
I was actually referring to sequels where people are killed between movie plots hence the term "killed offscreen" means we don't see how they died but are only told how they died through a third party; in this regard, Dallas and Lambert aren't considered offscreen deaths because we are more or less with them when they meet their end, we just don't see the exact details of their demise.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Jan 20, 2016, 04:42:21 PM
Well you did say the ending of aliens is stupid and cheesy (which is fantastically incorrect). It's like you are the personification of alien3, sooo very bitter that you weren't as good as the masterpieces that preceded it.
Going for cheap shots, ey?
QuoteIt's like when someone says the ending of jaws is cheesy because you can't blow an air tank up like that, its obvious they just don't get it and they never will. For the record I love the first 3 alien movies, perfect trilogy IMO but I also understand that alien3 just isn't on par with it's predecessors.
So you didn't get what I was saying. Not my problem.
QuoteAlien will always be my favorite, aliens, alien3, and then Alien Res.
Ok.
And where does the Predator fit into all of this alienezzy talk?
He's staying cloaked observing from the trees.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 10:29:22 PMSo, you know a movie that kills off one of their main characters offscreen that isn't for convenience reasons? ???
Ever heard of
No Country for Old Men?
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 20, 2016, 08:15:49 PMLighting is the main issue.
Not being able to see sh*t certainly didn't help, but the simple fact is even if you
could see what was going on, the movie would still be hopelessly terrible.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 21, 2016, 08:49:07 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 20, 2016, 08:15:49 PMLighting is the main issue.
Not being able to see sh*t certainly didn't help, but the simple fact is even if you could see what was going on, the movie would still be hopelessly terrible.
It wasn't lighting. It was colour grading.
As I said though, we've gone drastically off topic. I'll try and split these posts up into new threads soon. I'll post links back here.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 21, 2016, 08:49:07 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 20, 2016, 10:29:22 PMSo, you know a movie that kills off one of their main characters offscreen that isn't for convenience reasons? ???
Ever heard of No Country for Old Men?
You'll have to be more specific regarding which characters died "offscreen" as I haven't seen the film, regardless I'm not sure that example is comparable because our discussion is focusing more on sequels getting rid of unwanted main characters.
Quote from: predxeno on Jan 21, 2016, 07:36:52 PMYou'll have to be more specific regarding which characters died "offscreen" as I haven't seen the film.
Spoiler
Literally the main one. Tommy Lee Jones shows up at a motel and you find out Josh Brolin's been killed by the villains while you were following the other characters around.
I've checked wikipedia and gotten a rough approximation of what happened in that movie, as I said before I'm not sure it's a comparable example to the one we are discussing. As I said, we're more talking about the killing of main characters at the intro of movies (or beforehand) to the extent that those characters don't even get an actor to portray them. I don't qualify Moss as an offscreen death because he was indeed portrayed by an actor and his death was set up (I'm assuming) to heighten the emotional impact of his body's discovery. Regardless, we should really stick back to the original topic of this thread as nobody's opinion will be changing anytime soon.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 21, 2016, 09:22:01 AM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 21, 2016, 08:49:07 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 20, 2016, 08:15:49 PMLighting is the main issue.
Not being able to see sh*t certainly didn't help, but the simple fact is even if you could see what was going on, the movie would still be hopelessly terrible.
It wasn't lighting. It was colour grading.
As I said though, we've gone drastically off topic. I'll try and split these posts up into new threads soon. I'll post links back here.
Oh, color grading. Wait can't they fix that? Yea I'm already assuming the answer to that is no.
Poor predator feels so left out in the cold. Why no one talking about his movies. :P
Colour grading can be fixed.
It's not even color grading, it's post production contrast/brightness f**kery. Color grading might pull some of the light, but it shouldn't make certain scenes nigh pitch-black.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 21, 2016, 11:41:31 PMOh, color grading. Wait can't they fix that?
Because it would require money and I honestly doubt many people even care.
Quote from: Darkness on Jun 23, 2012, 07:33:49 AM
I spoke to Colin Strause about this last year and he claims Fox refused to let them touch the DVD/Blu-Ray at all. They said the west coast prints were fine but the east coast prints were dark. So they wanted to make the movie brighter but found out after they got the Blu-Ray from Fox, that the studio had made the movie a lot darker. They never had any say about it.
Bit of a surprise cos I always thought the darkness was their choice. It's easy to blame the Strauses but they just never stood a chance with this movie.
Well when I watched it in theaters it was still too dark to see anything, so the problem existed before the dvd/bluray release. Still blame falls to them unless the Strause bros were not involved with lighting during production and post production.
Where are you based 420? East or west coast of the States?
I'm in Michigan, east I guess.
I must have read the quote wrong, I thought they were saying the problem was with the bluray/dvd version and not the the theatrical release.
Yea I was under the presumption that it was done at the camera level at that they couldn't fix it. It was dark as shit in the theater as well.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 22, 2016, 08:55:19 PM
Yea I was under the presumption that it was done at the camera level at that they couldn't fix it. It was dark as shit in the theater as well.
Are you also eastern?
From what I remember the Bro's saying the badly coloured/graded print was the one that got sent to DVD.
Rabbit would be far west. Unless he's so far west that he's actually east.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 22, 2016, 08:51:50 AM
It's not even color grading, it's post production contrast/brightness f**kery.
That's, uh, part of colour grading.
The first trailers were fine, but then they fired and replaced their colourist.
No, I'm as far west as one can get from the rest of the world. :)
But yea... actually went on Christmas day to watch it and it was dark but I don't remember it being as bad as the dvd. However it is was no where as good as the trailers were. I chalked it up the theater just being old.
However I do remember deciding to put it on when some annoying family members came by. My mother asked why I picked it because you couldn't see anything and I said that was the idea. So in at least one way AVPr has served me well.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 22, 2016, 11:32:50 PM
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 22, 2016, 08:51:50 AM
It's not even color grading, it's post production contrast/brightness f**kery.
That's, uh, part of colour grading.
The first trailers were fine, but then they fired and replaced their colourist.
Stupid question time. Why did they do that? Next immoral question. So does this mean that the movie could be fixed for a bluray edition?
Films are often re-graded for home release (or at least tweaked) as there are different considerations for making the film look right in cinema to at home, but it looks like it wasn't the case here.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 22, 2016, 11:32:50 PM
That's, uh, part of colour grading.
Really, because I've never f*cked my own work that hardcore in the color grading process.
Cool. You still adjust those things in your colour correction/grading step, though, so even if it was "f**kery", that's where it happened.
Yes, it actually has gotten better with age.
Care to elaborate?
For me I'd say Wolf is the best thing about the movie. The sad thing is I enjoyed it more then Predators.
Quote from: cheachea on Jan 31, 2016, 06:38:01 PM
For me I'd say Wolf is the best thing about the movie.
Yeah...he was really memorable, cool design and concept
Watched this again a few days ago. The only parts that are better for me are the Wolf scenes, and like it has been talked about on here since day one, too bad you cant see shit. The scene of him emerging from the water would have been outstanding had they filmed it correctly, or had proper lighting or whatever their excuse is now. I really wish they would take the time to fix the film. However, I still HATE the repeated lines from their originals. No one should ever say "get to the choppa" again in a Predator film. Nor should they repeat ANY lines from other films, even the ugly mother F**ker line. And finally, I still hate the Predalien concept.
Quote from: happypred on Feb 17, 2016, 04:21:17 AM
Quote from: cheachea on Jan 31, 2016, 06:38:01 PM
For me I'd say Wolf is the best thing about the movie.
Yeah...he was really memorable, cool design and concept
It was the execution that was bungled.
Quote from: walker31 on Mar 01, 2016, 05:32:04 PMAnd finally, I still hate the Predalien concept.
You mean the AvP-R predalien design, right?
I'd kill a bunny for Predalien done right.
Quote from: Master on Mar 09, 2016, 08:19:21 AMI'd kill a bunny for Predalien done right.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Favp%2Fimages%2Fb%2Fb7%2FAbomination2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130404131052&hash=3bb976096aab35ba3c13b85e71f3317dcabeaa0f)
Stupid avpr style dreadlocks. The closest for me is original Dorman's concept.
I don't mind the dreds on that. They at least fit with the design. The ones in the film stuck out like sore thumbs.
Take the dreads off and I'd love it. I loathe dreadlocks on any of the designs. They're just not needed.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frs49.pbsrc.com%2Falbums%2Ff291%2Fsabres21768%2FAlienArt%2FPREDALIEN2.jpg%3Fw%3D480%26amp%3Bh%3D480%26amp%3Bfit%3Dclip&hash=0ae01f60da6ac441e11388e8185be2e1991a01a2)
I'd take that one even with dreadlocks. In this image they look like hard spikes and are cool.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fwinx-club-and-freinds-adventures%2Fimages%2F7%2F72%2FAbomination.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20141214221938&hash=87cfbae10261592da2afc75421b90fd7cef690a3)
Like
HuDaFuK, I like the design. However like
Hicks, I think it would look better without the floppy dreads.
Quote from: Master on Mar 09, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
http://rs49.pbsrc.com/albums/f291/sabres21768/AlienArt/PREDALIEN2.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
I'd take that one even with dreadlocks. In this image they look like hard spikes and are cool.
I love that artwork. Sadly, no one seems to have wanted to replicate it on screen. Instead we got...Chet.
Quote from: Master on Mar 09, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
http://rs49.pbsrc.com/albums/f291/sabres21768/AlienArt/PREDALIEN2.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
I'd take that one even with dreadlocks. In this image they look like hard spikes and are cool.
I definitely prefer Dorman's PredAlien over any I've seen. The dreads flow back with the head and look better but I still don't think they're needed.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Master on Mar 09, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
http://rs49.pbsrc.com/albums/f291/sabres21768/AlienArt/PREDALIEN2.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
I'd take that one even with dreadlocks. In this image they look like hard spikes and are cool.
I definitely prefer Dorman's PredAlien over any I've seen. The dreads flow back with the head and look better but I still don't think they're needed.
You would think that artist would quit shoehorning in the dreadlocks. It's not like we wouldn't
know it's a Alien-Predator hybrid without them. I guess the first clue would be, oh I don't know, the
big f**king mandibles! But, this is just one man's opinion.
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
"During this sculpting stage, however, particularly unusual feedback was received. "That 80/20 proportion changed a bit when a 14-year old happened to be walking through the halls of Fox, saw the maquette and said 'wow! Cool Alien!' This observation led to much discussion about how to make it look more like a Predator, and some last minute adding of dreadlocks to increase the Predator feel."
Omega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PM
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
Lol! Oh, Fox. You rascals, it
IS an
Alien. Sorry that the kid didn't know the proper term. I mean it's a kid. What did they expect from him? " Oh, look! It's the mythical
Predalien! Hooray! " ?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PMOmega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
I never got around to reading that far into the series, but the earlier ones I did read were great. Does it go into any detail about the pre-"cool alien!" design, or did they literally just stick dreds on it?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 10, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PMOmega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
I never got around to reading that far into the series, but the earlier ones I did read were great. Does it go into any detail about the pre-"cool alien!" design, or did they literally just stick dreds on it?
Thanks for the read
Hicks! Interesting to learn that the dreads were always apart of the design. Again, apparently the artist seem to think that an integral part of what makes a Predalien. I vehemently disagree, far as I'm concerned just the mandibles and some reworking the suit is enough.
HuDa, apparently they had the dreads still. But similar to Dorman's art they were placed toward the back of the head. Still floppy though. Then like you surmised, kid comes by " boy howdy an Alien! ", execs panic. Solution? Slap MORE dreads on it!
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 10, 2016, 02:09:50 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PMOmega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
I never got around to reading that far into the series, but the earlier ones I did read were great. Does it go into any detail about the pre-"cool alien!" design, or did they literally just stick dreds on it?
It's a very detailed article. You should enjoy it.
Quote from: JungleHunter87 on Mar 10, 2016, 02:35:23 PM
Thanks for the read Hicks! Interesting to learn that the dreads were always apart of the design. Again, apparently the artist seem to think that an integral part of what makes a Predalien. I vehemently disagree, far as I'm concerned just the mandibles and some reworking the suit is enough.
No problem, Jungle. I completely agree. I think the mandibles alone would be enough to tell even a casual watcher that was it some sort of hybrid. Especially when you see it coming out of a Predator.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PM
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
"During this sculpting stage, however, particularly unusual feedback was received. "That 80/20 proportion changed a bit when a 14-year old happened to be walking through the halls of Fox, saw the maquette and said 'wow! Cool Alien!' This observation led to much discussion about how to make it look more like a Predator, and some last minute adding of dreadlocks to increase the Predator feel."
Omega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
What an insane overreaction that was. What did they want the kid to say instead? "cool predator"? This is a clear case on studio interference and the director's not having enough pull in their own movie. I've criticize the Strause Bros
a lot but this wasn't their fault.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PM
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
"During this sculpting stage, however, particularly unusual feedback was received. "That 80/20 proportion changed a bit when a 14-year old happened to be walking through the halls of Fox, saw the maquette and said 'wow! Cool Alien!' This observation led to much discussion about how to make it look more like a Predator, and some last minute adding of dreadlocks to increase the Predator feel."
Omega has a very extensive article on the design of Chet, actually. I'd recommend giving it a read!
http://monsterlegacy.net/2015/08/25/starbeast-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-the-predalien/
Thanks for that link! Looking forward to reading that. I never felt that the Predalien design was particularly bad. It was a reasonable expectation of what one could expect from fusing the 2 species. It was the film and the story in general that was awful. But I don't think the film stank because of the Predalien..
I thought the Chet design was pretty terrible.
It made as much sense as designing an alien warrior with pasty human skin and hair on its head. Or the Dog alien should have hair all over its body and a long snout.
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Dreads may not be hair per se but its a physical feature that still belongs on an alien as much as human hair would lol.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PMThough to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
They've always looked kinda fleshy to me, intentionally or not.
Quote from: JungleHunter87 on Mar 09, 2016, 08:13:58 PM
Quote from: Master on Mar 09, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
http://rs49.pbsrc.com/albums/f291/sabres21768/AlienArt/PREDALIEN2.jpg?w=480&h=480&fit=clip
I'd take that one even with dreadlocks. In this image they look like hard spikes and are cool.
I love that artwork. Sadly, no one seems to have wanted to replicate it on screen. Instead we got...Chet.
Funnily enough, Dorman thinks they copy-pasted his design to make Chet.
Lack of nudity killed it.
Needed Friday the 13th style teenage follies.
I don't know why everyone's freaking out about Chet/Predalien having dreadlocks, they were on the very first appearances of the creature from the video games and comics, weren't they? If people were so upset, 2007 was a pretty late year to bitch about it to Fox, right? :-\ Anyway, I wouldn't know whether the original Predalien (before the kid said "Cool Alien.") didn't have dreadlocks or not, here's a picture of the predalien concept maquette:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F400022_press07-001.jpg&hash=66de225f47a9eeefdf9a3276e1d7d9cfbe305874)
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 10, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Dreads may not be hair per se but its a physical feature that still belongs on an alien as much as human hair would lol.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 10, 2016, 04:59:37 PM
They've always looked kinda fleshy to me, intentionally or not.
My thinking is perhaps that they're an actual organ that is so impressive that the Alien does adapt to take them. Completely nonsense thinking but just trying to justify it appearing on every design.
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2016, 04:35:21 AM
I don't know why everyone's freaking out about Chet/Predalien having dreadlocks, they were on the very first appearances of the creature from the video games and comics, weren't they? If people were so upset, 2007 was a pretty late year to bitch about it to Fox, right? :-\ Anyway, I wouldn't know whether the original Predalien (before the kid said "Cool Alien.") didn't have dreadlocks or not, here's a picture of the predalien concept maquette:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sideshowtoy.com%2Fmas_assets%2Fjpg%2F400022_press07-001.jpg&hash=66de225f47a9eeefdf9a3276e1d7d9cfbe305874)
Yeah, they were on the original Duel appearance but they looked more like spikes.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-iU5ZtURPkP8%2FTkA376TQhKI%2FAAAAAAAAAoM%2FAJNCIetyocA%2Fs1600%2Falienvspredatorduel2a.png&hash=af56b8cb80b0745400bfda371ef73a0bdbada4da)
As with the Dorman version, if they flow with the design I don't mind them as much and I perfer them being spikes than floppy dreadlocks. As for "being upset" about the dreads, I can't really attest to response to the dreadlocks prior to the active internet community. Maybe some of the older hands can?
I do not believe that concept is the one they were referring to. If you read Omega's article you'll find pictures of the design that was modified following the feedback from the kid but no pictures that give a view of it is has dreads or not:
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmaquette.jpg)
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredaliensculptheadoso.jpg)
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2016, 04:35:21 AMI don't know why everyone's freaking out about Chet/Predalien having dreadlocks, they were on the very first appearances of the creature from the video games and comics, weren't they?
Actually the Predaliens in the
AVP game from 1999 didn't have dreds. Nor did the ones in
AVP2, I believe.
I believe the AvP2 one had some awkward looking dreads at the tail-end of its head. AvP Classic's design was just weird from what I remember.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamejerks.net%2Fimages%2Fgame_covers%2Fgame-aliens-versus-predator-2-primal-hunt-14642-16068-35bd58c4ffac981adb76f726c06c3669.jpg&hash=336283c982542ebe8384e6fe5f7c78e041c9eca1)
I know it's the cover for Primal Hunt but it's pretty much how the AvP2 PredAliens looked.
I like AvP2 predalien. Maybe because it's my favorite AvP game. It looks like lovechild of Sil and Predator.
I love the game too. Was never fond of that design either though. I don't think any of the games have done a PredAlien I truly liked with no complaints.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Mar 11, 2016, 09:08:03 AM
Quote from: predxeno on Mar 11, 2016, 04:35:21 AMI don't know why everyone's freaking out about Chet/Predalien having dreadlocks, they were on the very first appearances of the creature from the video games and comics, weren't they?
Actually the Predaliens in the AVP game from 1999 didn't have dreds. Nor did the ones in AVP2, I believe.
Actually im pretty sure both designs did, avp99 had dangly tenticle dreads and the sequel had spike dreads coming out the back of the head. I couldn't find a pic of the avp99 though.
Fan response to the predailien has always been mixed even back in 99, personally I have always thought the designs had way to much predator in them.
Found a pic
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.brothersoft.com%2Fscreenshots%2Fsoftimage%2Fa%2Falien_vs_predator_patch-290617-1253587157.jpeg&hash=f2d73bb61c7b1a8a0f143c3c9d8d53d2692de7d5)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PM
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
"During this sculpting stage, however, particularly unusual feedback was received. "That 80/20 proportion changed a bit when a 14-year old happened to be walking through the halls of Fox, saw the maquette and said 'wow! Cool Alien!' This observation led to much discussion about how to make it look more like a Predator, and some last minute adding of dreadlocks to increase the Predator feel."
O...M...G
It's like Fox execs are retarded or some shit
Folks, I had no idea the Predalien came before AVPR. As I said earlier, I've been largely out of the Aliens world between Alien 3 and Prometheus. Anybody know when the first ever appearance of the Predalien took place?
A 2 issue comic called AvP Duel.
Quote from: happypred on Mar 11, 2016, 12:27:18 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 02:01:13 PM
There's a story about how Fox panicked over Chet's design, thinking it didn't have enough Predator in it when some kid said "cool Alien!" when he saw it.
"During this sculpting stage, however, particularly unusual feedback was received. "That 80/20 proportion changed a bit when a 14-year old happened to be walking through the halls of Fox, saw the maquette and said 'wow! Cool Alien!' This observation led to much discussion about how to make it look more like a Predator, and some last minute adding of dreadlocks to increase the Predator feel."
O...M...G
It's like Fox execs are retarded or some shit
You don't know the half of it, Fox originally wanted to Chet to be able to turn invisible and use Predator weaponry, but even the Strause Bros. knew that was a bad idea. Eggbarfing doesn't seem so bad now in comparison, huh?
I actually don't mind the predalien in AvP Duel, every other incarnation put forth in an actual product has been crap though.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 10, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Dreads may not be hair per se but its a physical feature that still belongs on an alien as much as human hair would lol.
The dreads seem to be much more important to the Predator as opposed to our hair.
If you look at the skulls of the Predators you'll see huge holes at the back of their heads where dreads connect. I remember in one of the comics, the dreads bled when they got cut. So it probably serves something real important as opposed to just being dead cells pushed outwards through a hair follicle like on us.
And Aliens seem like the type of creature to take important and valuable genetics. As for what purpose dreads serve, your guess is as good as mine. But it probably serves them more than our hair does us. I mean, do you see any Predator barbers around? :P
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=predator+skull&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=775&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7wuqejrnLAhWIaA8KHfIbANUQ_AUIBigB
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 11, 2016, 05:04:03 PM
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 10, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Dreads may not be hair per se but its a physical feature that still belongs on an alien as much as human hair would lol.
The dreads seem to be much more important to the Predator as opposed to our hair.
If you look at the skulls of the Predators you'll see huge holes at the back of their heads where dreads connect. I remember in one of the comics, the dreads bled when they got cut. So it probably serves something real important as opposed to just being dead cells pushed outwards through a hair follicle like on us.
And Aliens seem like the type of creature to take important and valuable genetics. As for what purpose dreads serve, your guess is as good as mine. But it probably serves them more than our hair does us. I mean, do you see any Predator barbers around? :P
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=predator+skull&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=775&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7wuqejrnLAhWIaA8KHfIbANUQ_AUIBigB
Hard to believe they are very important as they are always completely unprotected, they have been shot off in comics and the pred was only annoyed. I just can't see any reason to add them to the alien design, makes me wish Alien3 had never started the whole DNA reflex theory.
It worked in that movie because the traits taken from the host were very minimal. Everyone else seems to take them to Kenner level extremes.
P.S. My personal predator dreadlock theory is that they have something to do with regulating body temperature.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 11, 2016, 04:50:15 PM
I actually don't mind the predalien in AvP Duel,
Me either but that's mostly because the dreads flow with the design and seem to be spikes, rather than just floppy pieces of nothing.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 11, 2016, 05:59:43 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2016, 04:39:41 PM
A 2 issue comic called AvP Duel.
Thanks Corporal!
No worries. :)
The original maquette... before the changes.
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmaquette.jpg)
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmaquettesos.jpg)
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmaquettos.jpg)
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredalienmaquettedet.jpg)
Chest is better but God those dreads are dumb.
I try to like this design. It's not so horrid after all. Mandibles should be closer to mouth so they can close. Cranium longer without dreadlocks and more smoth. Not to mention darker black-silver paint job.
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 11, 2016, 06:52:05 PM
Quote from: The Alien Predator on Mar 11, 2016, 05:04:03 PM
Quote from: 420Buddy on Mar 10, 2016, 04:48:57 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 10, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Exactly why I hate those dreadlocks. :laugh: Though to be fair, we don't know if they are hair.
Dreads may not be hair per se but its a physical feature that still belongs on an alien as much as human hair would lol.
The dreads seem to be much more important to the Predator as opposed to our hair.
If you look at the skulls of the Predators you'll see huge holes at the back of their heads where dreads connect. I remember in one of the comics, the dreads bled when they got cut. So it probably serves something real important as opposed to just being dead cells pushed outwards through a hair follicle like on us.
And Aliens seem like the type of creature to take important and valuable genetics. As for what purpose dreads serve, your guess is as good as mine. But it probably serves them more than our hair does us. I mean, do you see any Predator barbers around? :P
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=predator+skull&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=775&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7wuqejrnLAhWIaA8KHfIbANUQ_AUIBigB
Hard to believe they are very important as they are always completely unprotected, they have been shot off in comics and the pred was only annoyed. I just can't see any reason to add them to the alien design, makes me wish Alien3 had never started the whole DNA reflex theory.
It worked in that movie because the traits taken from the host were very minimal. Everyone else seems to take them to Kenner level extremes.
P.S. My personal predator dreadlock theory is that they have something to do with regulating body temperature.
I like that theory, it does make sense seeing as they love really hot areas so the dreads maybe are a way to regulate their body heat. Like the spikes on a Stegosaurus.
I remember one of the novels stating it was a way to regulate balance, which for me makes sense too as they spend a lot of time climbing and jumping, so the dreads can be a way of reminding them which way is down sometimes. The author also thought of them as some kind of sensory organ while he was discussing South China Sea in the archived thread.
No...no it has not. It's a shame that their was never a second version released that fixed the saturated darkness that hid most of everything. When looking at the behind the scenes footage there are clearly tons of bright lights on set, which only frustrates me more seeing the finished picture.
I just watched it last night for the first time in a long time and I have to say it wasn't quite as bad as I remembered. Though it still just reminded me of a decent saturday night movie on the SyFy channel. But I noticed a lot more of the sound and music this time around. There is actually a lot of sound effects taken straight from the other movies and music that is very similar if not the same that evokes good memories from the earlier movies. So I guess that is kind of a neat thing that I didn't remember.
AVPR was a nostalgia-type film, it was just better/worse at doing its job than today's modern day reincarnations. Better in that it didn't turn the series from suspense-thriller to action-comedy (like Jurassic World did), it didn't delete its predecessors from the timeline (like Terminator: Genisys did), nor did it plagiarize a previous movie and try to pass it off as its own (like Star Wars: The Force Awakens did). On the other hand, AVPR was worse than these films in that it didn't do such a good job tricking the audience into thinking it was a great story like the aforementioned examples did.
Quote from: Machiko Naguchi on Mar 20, 2016, 05:13:17 PMBut I noticed a lot more of the sound and music this time around. There is actually a lot of sound effects taken straight from the other movies and music that is very similar if not the same that evokes good memories from the earlier movies.
The sound editing and score
were actually pretty good. I noticed in particular how some snippets of
Alien Resurrection's score made it in there, which made me smile; I've always felt Frizzell's soundtrack to the fourth film gets unfairly forgotten about because of the film it's in, because it's actually a great score.
Unfortunately, good sound can't save a movie that's crap in just about every other fundamental way.
I found the score to be very much what the film wanted to be - a mixed tape of the best bits of previous films. However, I thought it actually worked for the score. I've always enjoyed it and I used to listen to it quite a lot.
Yeah...you could add the score to the lost of things AvP R did not mess up
1. Wolf was a great design
2. The score was solid
Wolf's design was pretty much the only thing I liked, and the whip concept seemed cool but everything else was just dog meat. This film is not a cult classic and has no redeemable qualities whatsoever, this film has not and will not improve with age.
I will admit I like the one on one fight between Wolf and the Predalien...stupid yes, but successful entertainment wise. But him taking his bio mask off is just a mind bogglingly stupid and impractical move on Wolf's end.
Yeah, it did nothing more than contouring the "fair fight" scenario.
This was the worst movie I have ever seen in my life. The events that sorrounded it within the community was also one of the worst things I have probably seen in any community I have ever been to.
The utter unprofessionalism that was portrayed by Collin Strause via his posting within this board was both baffling and humorous at the same time. If I was not so involved with Planet AvP I would have joined SiL in berating the ideas he presented at the time.
The staff involved did very little homework on the Alien franchise and caused some of the most convoluted and inconsistent traits in the franchise as of yet. Yes, this film is canon unless Covenent solidly retcons it and hopefully it does not go out of its way to do so.
Regurgitating was poorly recieved when they were mentioned (yes, Collin spoiled his
own movie).
And when it was given feedback he sat there and typed, and I quote; "It's my movie and I will do what I want".
No, no and no! This film does not get better with age because those whom were in charge did not approach it as an artistic project but a cash grab trying to squeeze in a concept of redemption. Which literally was the focal point to this nonsense, make what the first one was
supposed to be.
QuoteWe call it Requiem to emphasize the hard R rating
I MEAN COME ON!?
And when we were
blessed to be in the presence of the directors (Strause C on AvPG and Strause G for PAvP). Little by little the shitshow was unravelling.
Collin was essentially researching what was needed and took feedback from the fans. Too bad a majority of them were fourteen f**king years old and were giving them advice inspired from AvP2 the game! I kid you not someone mentioned once on PAvP to put a bloody plasma pistol in the film and they complied by stating "we can think of something".
I swear AvP R is the precedent of why not to fan pander. I could not stand it how a majority of fans flocked to defend it beknownst that they felt that their recommendations did more harm than good. But no, they wanted know they were right by their treatment and introduced one of the most harmful additions to the series (both Predator and Alien alike).
And I am not pinning this crash on the directors alone but a handful of those involved that just merely did not do their jobs well.
For those of you who are new, dig the archives and find Collin's account and go through his archives.
You'll find a comical megalomaniac whom:
- Insulted users for giving him negative feedback
- Stated to only be informed and captivated by only 1 film of each respective franchise (Aliens and Predator).
- Come up with excuses and blaming his staff for the shortcomings (Unbelievable, just utterly disgusting).
- Brag about his Japanese wife.
- Insulted the fans for having so much zeal for the franchises by calling us nerds
- Getting beaten the f**k out of by SiL and SM aka Crocodile and Dundee
- Became irate when finally a moderator caved into his bullying and called him an outright asshole in which he in turn left the community in outrage
This was toxic and very innappropriate for someone of such status to do on a forum where people were guaranteed to pay and support his film.
One of my favorite instances was when before the film was released a user stated and I quote:
QuoteIt's based in a town? I swear I will walk out if I see a pizzaboy!
Collin lost it and told him to just enjoy the movie regardless of there being a pizzaboy.
And even this! A pizzaboy?! In a bloody Alien/Predator movie?!
Was the man so void of taste?! This script was sitting in the studio and Fox probably knew that only a mad man would work with it. They probably laughed out their organs when more than one mad man showed up stating they wanted to do it.
So to answer your question has this film improved with age?
Yes it has seeing as everytime I come back and think of it I laugh even harder than the last time I've seen it because everything in and of this film was a complete joke!
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 22, 2016, 11:49:52 PM
I swear AvP R is the precedent of why not to fan pander.
Do you think this is going to be a problem for Blomkamp's current 'ALIEN 5' proposal? The entire proposal appears to do just that - be an uncompromising fan service catering to a certain spectrum of fans only.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 23, 2016, 01:06:10 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 22, 2016, 11:49:52 PM
I swear AvP R is the precedent of why not to fan pander.
Do you think this is going to be a problem for Blomkamp's current 'ALIEN 5' proposal? The entire proposal appears to do just that - be an uncompromising fan service catering to a certain spectrum of fans only.
-Windebieste.
The difference is that Blomkamp is himself a hardcore fan. He wore out the Aliens VHS tape. He lives and breathes Aliens. Of course the film might turn out all wrong, but after seeing District 9 for the first time, I thought that this is a man who I could see helming an Aliens film some day. It was because of Aliens that he was able to do District 9. Where do you think that whole exo-skeleton influence came from? I say let the man have his shot. But we digress...
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 23, 2016, 01:06:10 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 22, 2016, 11:49:52 PM
I swear AvP R is the precedent of why not to fan pander.
Do you think this is going to be a problem for Blomkamp's current 'ALIEN 5' proposal? The entire proposal appears to do just that - be an uncompromising fan service catering to a certain spectrum of fans only.
-Windebieste.
Requiem was a nightmare. The kind of treatment Fox stirred in the franchises with Requiem can not even be compared.
But Blomkamp's concepts and the very little yet crucial information that we have right now leads me to believe that it won't be well recieved by casual audiences. It has so much weight to work with.
- Casting aged actors where only one of them is fairly recognized by mainstream viewers. (Regardless if some individuals may feel like they may know them so everyone will know them).
- Alien Covenent depending whether it is well recieved or not will affect the way critics percieve this film in turn affecting mainstream viewers. They will cite themselves with the stereotypical cinema reporter statement when addressing an already established franchise; "do we really need another one?"
- It will take a long time before its in development. Might not even be developed
Now lets rewind AvP Requiem's history back when we learned of it similar to the way we are learning of Alien 5.
When Requiem was first hitting the headlines; what we knew of its weight was:
- Two amateur first time directors from a special FX background now are working on a new AvP Film.
SHIT - The film is greenlit just a year or two after the first one and and to navigate the franchise to its redemption. SHIT
- One of the directors acting unprofessionally on the franchise's second most centralized community in its time.
SHIT
Alien 5 will not even come close to the same tier of tawdriness as Requiem. I would smear the dog shit and cat shit that SiL was talking about on Huda's underwear then eat it rather than watch this film again.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 23, 2016, 04:09:46 AM
He wore out the Aliens VHS tape.
So did the Bros.
QuoteWhere do you think that whole exo-skeleton influence came from?
They had limited SFX budget and the exo-skeleton was a lot cheaper than flesh.
That was literally it.
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 04:29:46 AM
Alien 5 will not even come close to the same tier of tawdriness as Requiem. I would smear the dog shit and cat shit that SiL was talking about on Huda's underwear then eat it rather than watch this film again.
You know, some people actually like this movie. Then again, some people actually like to practice coprophagia, too.
I'm not sure there's a difference.
-Wndebieste
It hasn't improved for me with age either. I started this thread because I was trying to find a way to enjoy this film as I do most other Alien films, but that moment never came for me. I was curious to get the opinion of fellow fans. Maybe there was something I was just missing. But nope. I find myself agreeing with most of the negative things said about the film here.
I wasn't on this forum back in the day when the film was being developed. So Collin Strausse was actually on here? I can just imagine based on seeing how stoked people are on the Covenant threads, how excited people were for Requiem, and then... Bleh!
Quote from: windebieste on Jul 23, 2016, 05:26:20 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 04:29:46 AM
Alien 5 will not even come close to the same tier of tawdriness as Requiem. I would smear the dog shit and cat shit that SiL was talking about on Huda's underwear then eat it rather than watch this film again.
You know, some people actually like this movie. Then again, some people actually like to practice coprophagia, too.
I'm not sure there's a difference.
-Wndebieste
:laugh: If you watch this film while eating it counts as coprophagia.
Quote from: SiL
Quote
He wore out the Aliens VHS tape.
So did the Bros.
And what a waste seeing as they gathered not a strand of insight from it whatsoever.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 23, 2016, 05:49:59 AM
I wasn't on this forum back in the day when the film was being developed. So Collin Strausse was actually on here? I can just imagine based on seeing how stoked people are on the Covenant threads, how excited people were for Requiem, and then... Bleh!
There were more people on here back in the day. It was really held well together (the community) with the online gaming, fandom and news. The Requiem hype really was one of the pinnacle moments of the AvP community.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=7284.msg124593#msg124593
This is when I remember losing all hope for Requiem.
QuoteAnd what a waste seeing as they gathered not a strand of insight from it whatsoever.
All Blomkamp's shown he's taken from it is the aesthetics. His first film was great but the last two have been really lacking.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 23, 2016, 06:43:38 AM
QuoteAnd what a waste seeing as they gathered not a strand of insight from it whatsoever.
All Blomkamp's shown he's taken from it is the aesthetics. His first film was great but the last two have been really lacking.
In terms of his concept art for his Alien movie?
I always felt that he approaches themes in his films multilaterally and causing the plot to inflate making it difficult to keep track. I don't mind this however because it demonstrates a desire to be innovative. And he has some kind of intelligence to backup that innovation with some kind of content that could be deemed with having integrity. Unlike the Brothers Strause.
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 22, 2016, 11:49:52 PM
This was the worst movie I have ever seen in my life. The events that sorrounded it within the community was also one of the worst things I have probably seen in any community I have ever been to.
The utter unprofessionalism that was portrayed by Collin Strause via his posting within this board was both baffling and humorous at the same time. If I was not so involved with Planet AvP I would have joined SiL in berating the ideas he presented at the time.
The staff involved did very little homework on the Alien franchise and caused some of the most convoluted and inconsistent traits in the franchise as of yet. Yes, this film is canon unless Covenent solidly retcons it and hopefully it does not go out of its way to do so.
Regurgitating was poorly recieved when they were mentioned (yes, Collin spoiled his own movie).
And when it was given feedback he sat there and typed, and I quote; "It's my movie and I will do what I want".
No, no and no! This film does not get better with age because those whom were in charge did not approach it as an artistic project but a cash grab trying to squeeze in a concept of redemption. Which literally was the focal point to this nonsense, make what the first one was supposed to be.
QuoteWe call it Requiem to emphasize the hard R rating
For those of you who are new, dig the archives and find Collin's account and go through his archives.
You'll find a comical megalomaniac whom:
- Insulted users for giving him negative feedback
- Stated to only be informed and captivated by only 1 film of each respective franchise (Aliens and Predator).
- Come up with excuses and blaming his staff for the shortcomings (Unbelievable, just utterly disgusting).
- Brag about his Japanese wife.
- Insulted the fans for having so much zeal for the franchises by calling us nerds
- Getting beaten the f**k out of by SiL and SM aka Crocodile and Dundee
- Became irate when finally a moderator caved into his bullying and called him an outright asshole in which he in turn left the community in outrage
This was toxic and very innappropriate for someone of such status to do on a forum where people were guaranteed to pay and support his film.
One of my favorite instances was when before the film was released a user stated and I quote:
QuoteIt's based in a town? I swear I will walk out if I see a pizzaboy!
Collin lost it and told him to just enjoy the movie regardless of there being a pizzaboy.
And even this! A pizzaboy?! In a bloody Alien/Predator movie?!
Ahahaha I had heard SiL was responsible for getting rid of the Strause bros in a podcast and wanted to ask why lol. I'll have to check out their posts someday for a laugh. If you look on IMDB you'll notice they've dissappeared and completely irrelevant ever since they made that crapfest AVPR.
Quote
I always felt that he approaches themes in his films multilaterally and causing the plot to inflate making it difficult to keep track. I don't mind this however because it demonstrates a desire to be innovative. And he has some kind of intelligence to backup that innovation with some kind of content that could be deemed with having integrity. Unlike the Brothers Strause.
Having clever ideas you can't execute effectively is no better than having dumb ideas you execute well. It's still crap in the end. I don't want someone with good intentions, I want someone who's consistently competent.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 23, 2016, 01:50:11 PM
Quote
I always felt that he approaches themes in his films multilaterally and causing the plot to inflate making it difficult to keep track. I don't mind this however because it demonstrates a desire to be innovative. And he has some kind of intelligence to backup that innovation with some kind of content that could be deemed with having integrity. Unlike the Brothers Strause.
Having clever ideas you can't execute effectively is no better than having dumb ideas you execute well. It's still crap in the end. I don't want someone with good intentions, I want someone who's consistently competent.
Of course. I am merely comparing him to the Brothers Strause.
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 23, 2016, 12:44:09 PM
Ahahaha I had heard SiL was responsible for getting rid of the Strause bros in a podcast and wanted to ask why lol. I'll have to check out their posts someday for a laugh. If you look on IMDB you'll notice they've dissappeared and completely irrelevant ever since they made that crapfest AVPR.
It wasn't just SiL though. Many fans hammered into him after the film was released.
The Brothers Strause are perhaps unfairly maligned. Although they decided to direct the movie, they didn't choose the script. But they did make the script a lot better than what it could have been. As for the darkness problem, also not their fault, apparently. They made the best movie they could under the circumstances.
I can understand why many traditionalist fans don't like their ideas, though.
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 23, 2016, 05:57:34 PM
As for the darkness problem, also not their fault, apparently. They made the best movie they could under the circumstances.
I think one of my friends who saw it in theaters actually said the lighting was fine. In theaters, anyway.
The lighting wasn't an issue if I recall when I saw it in theatres. But when I watched it recently on my HD TV, it was impossible to tell what was going on at some points. Rather like that recent Godzilla movie. Towards the end of that film, it might as well have been a radio play.
AVP:R just went unnecessarily into territories that were too far. That whole scene with the pregnant woman was way too much. And to make it even worse, it hardly had any impact on the film. Basically all the characters were disposable and it was impossible to really root for anybody. If you were to ask me to name a single character from that film, I simply couldn't tell you. I forgot every single one of them. The same goes for AVP mind you. Except Charles Weyland I guess.
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 23, 2016, 05:57:34 PM
The Brothers Strause are perhaps unfairly maligned. Although they decided to direct the movie, they didn't choose the script. But they did make the script a lot better than what it could have been. As for the darkness problem, also not their fault, apparently. They made the best movie they could under the circumstances.
I can understand why many traditionalist fans don't like their ideas, though.
Their direction was poor though. They could have done a lot with the script they recieved but they are not script writers so what the hell was the point? We are talking about a director who considered all other entries other than Aliens or Predator either boring or bad; what could he have done with the script? Add an actor that looks like James Cameron to do a fake cameo? They were bad because they approached this film with a deadline and a quota so they could collect their cheque when everything was all finished. They just simply didn't care.
Now the whole franchise has this stigma where if you either mention an Alien or a Predator to someone whom knows very little of the franchise they will always refer to the AvP movies seeing as they are one of the most recent sources of reference.
Hence why I am reluctant to feel so strongly about Blomkamp, Scott and Black because I truly feel that it could be a lot worse.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 23, 2016, 07:50:28 PM
Basically all the characters were disposable and it was impossible to really root for anybody. If you were to ask me to name a single character from that film, I simply couldn't tell you. I forgot every single one of them. The same goes for AVP mind you. Except Charles Weyland I guess.
The pregnancy scene was criticized as well and obviously Strause went ahead and essentially called the person a pussy, if I recall correctly. I could be wrong..
The problem was that instead of making characters having any dynamic individually it aimed at making the species as a group have a dynamic.
Predator eradicates aliens
Aliens propagate using the town
Humans trying to survive
This is how I felt however.
d
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 04:27:41 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 23, 2016, 12:44:09 PM
Ahahaha I had heard SiL was responsible for getting rid of the Strause bros in a podcast and wanted to ask why lol. I'll have to check out their posts someday for a laugh. If you look on IMDB you'll notice they've dissappeared and completely irrelevant ever since they made that crapfest AVPR.
It wasn't just SiL though. Many fans hammered into him after the film was released.
True, I just read the first and last pages of that thread. You guys hammered him good for his idiotic idea of puke eggmorphing. I wish I was around than Id have probably gotten banned for letting him know my thoughts on his dumbass fanboy stupid ideas. I was surprised to see how many followers this guy had on that thread...jeez it was like a cult..no comment.
Funniest thing was in the Q&A with Colin Strause thread where Cpl. Hicks asks him a few days after the movie was released...So No AVP3?
LOL
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 23, 2016, 08:19:42 PM
dQuote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 04:27:41 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 23, 2016, 12:44:09 PM
Ahahaha I had heard SiL was responsible for getting rid of the Strause bros in a podcast and wanted to ask why lol. I'll have to check out their posts someday for a laugh. If you look on IMDB you'll notice they've dissappeared and completely irrelevant ever since they made that crapfest AVPR.
It wasn't just SiL though. Many fans hammered into him after the film was released.
True, I just read the first and last pages of that thread. You guys hammered him good for his idiotic idea of puke eggmorphing. I wish I was around than Id have probably gotten banned for letting him know my thoughts on his dumbass fanboy stupid ideas. I was surprised to see how many followers this guy had on that thread...jeez it was like a cult..no comment.
Funniest thing was in the Q&A with Colin Strause thread where Cpl. Hicks asks him a few days after the movie was released...So No AVP3?
LOL
"When you cry is it acid tears SiL?"
:laugh: !
When AvPG hits its tenth anniversary there should be a podcast commemorating the history of it with a solid fraction of it dedicated to that era. It was a gong show back then!
There were more Predator fans than Alien fans back then if I could recall, so I see where they felt okay with that kind idea. Imagine if Predators came out instead of Requiem and the same principles applied (Director comes on the boards, 8000 predator fans, etc.) Imagine a thread announcing Super Predators; Rakai would be the polar SiL.
Some more funny ones:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=11483.0
War Wager
Reply #162 on: December 31, 2007, 02:34:54 PM
How did you get the job in the first place?
Pvt. Hicks
Reply #178 on: December 31, 2007, 11:13:37 PM
I have a quick question about that scene. Why does the guy call them over for safety and then gets angry and tells them to shut up and stuff?
Johnny Handsome
Reply #179 on: December 31, 2007, 11:15:25 PM
Because he´s afraid of the predator and that he could might see him. That girl is getting louder and louder and the guy is getting more panic.
That Yellow Alien
Reply #180 on: December 31, 2007, 11:36:23 PM
What doesn't make sense about that scene is that HE is the one hiding there first. He calls them over, and suddenly freaks out about "not wanting to die hiding here." What? You were the one hiding there first, dumbass.
That Yellow Alien
Reply #146 on: December 30, 2007, 07:37:23 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on December 30, 2007, 07:35:58 PM
"Yep. In a early version of the movie Chet was more Predator like, from skinning to spine ripping out. We also did a Predalien POV for her looking at the fetus's in the womb, but we felt it was going too far and was de-mystifiying the creatures."
Make sure that footage never sees the light of day.
Xenomorphine
Reply #148 on: December 30, 2007, 07:42:08 PM
Quote from: Colin_Strause on December 30, 2007, 07:35:58 PM
"Yep. In a early version of the movie Chet was more Predator like, from skinning to spine ripping out. We also did a Predalien POV for her looking at the fetus's in the womb, but we felt it was going too far and was de-mystifiying the creatures."
Was that thermal or was it some new interpretation of the Alien perspective? If the latter, it would be interesting to have an idea of what you came up with.
Sgt.Torque Reikan
Reply #186 on: January 01, 2008, 03:04:54 AM
my quick question I think it might of been answeared but what they hay.
If wolf is trying to ninja in the town and destroy ALL traces of alien life... why does he skin someone
Alienseseses
Reply #189 on: January 03, 2008, 11:30:15 PM
"How do you feel?"
_Pred_Alien_
Reply #190 on: January 03, 2008, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Alienseseses on January 03, 2008, 11:30:15 PM
"How do you feel?"
LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hey Colin now that the pressure of you first film is gone, how do you think that would affect you getting more direction (and hopefully money!) should Fox want you back for yet another sequel?
lol no comment:
killzonewith bladesandteet
Reply #191 on: January 03, 2008, 11:53:13 PM
Does the Predalien have a sister?
dDave
Reply #199 on: January 04, 2008, 08:16:07 AM
I have a question, too:
why does wolf goes first to the pool after he was hurt at the power plant and then to the tree to heal himself? So why he makes a stop, before he heals himself? (or was it the same alien that hurts him? no, that would make no sense :D)
mh maybe the pool was closer to the power plant, because ricky & co were very fast there, but im not sure...
so why you choose this order: powerplant -> wolf hurt -> wolf at pool/killing one alien and much water^^ -> medkit scene...
PS: was the water erased by the blue-liquid, or was there a hole in the pool, because of the alien? (i saw something like a dark hole)
Danger Close
Reply #238 on: January 25, 2008, 06:21:48 PM
Colin, Your AVP3 idea, is that an idea on paper or is it somthing that you and your brother have already written?
Hellspawn28
Reply #240 on: February 14, 2008, 10:53:33 PM
What happen to Colin? Does he still go on the site.
Corporal Hicks
All right, we waste him. No offense.
Reply #143 on: December 30, 2007, 07:25:47 PM
So AvP3?
--------------------------------------
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
They just simply didn't care.
They took the time to interact with the fans, though. Not many directors do that.
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 08:43:14 PM
When AvPG hits its tenth anniversary there should be a podcast commemorating the history of it with a solid fraction of it dedicated to that era. It was a gong show back then!
Been and gone! 14 years and counting. :P
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 23, 2016, 09:15:07 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 08:43:14 PM
When AvPG hits its tenth anniversary there should be a podcast commemorating the history of it with a solid fraction of it dedicated to that era. It was a gong show back then!
Been and gone! 14 years and counting. :P
15th anniversary then ???
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 23, 2016, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
They just simply didn't care.
They took the time to interact with the fans, though. Not many directors do that.
And he just sat there fishing for compliments while handing out spoilers.
AvP at least aged a litte bit, contributed a lot to the franchise's identity and generated over a 100 million in revenue, where Requiem; is forgettable, contributed Jäeggervölf and Brood Hybrid Queen Impregnator
Chet ::); and brought in nearly 90 million in revenue.
QuoteBut when I watched it recently on my HD TV, it was impossible to tell what was going on at some points.
Between 2:04 and 2:13 was probably exclaimed by every person that adjusted their televison's settings trying to watch the film.
Spoiler
EditQuote
And didn't listen to a single one of them
Had to retract that whilst clarifying that citations may be needed for the Plasma Pistol incident.
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 09:53:40 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 23, 2016, 09:15:07 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 08:43:14 PM
When AvPG hits its tenth anniversary there should be a podcast commemorating the history of it with a solid fraction of it dedicated to that era. It was a gong show back then!
Been and gone! 14 years and counting. :P
15th anniversary then ???
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 23, 2016, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 23, 2016, 07:56:57 PM
They just simply didn't care.
They took the time to interact with the fans, though. Not many directors do that.
And he just sat there fishing for compliments while handing out spoilers.
AvP at least aged a litte bit, contributed a lot to the franchise's identity and generated over a 100 million in revenue, where Requiem; is forgettable, contributed Jäeggervölf and Brood Hybrid Queen Impregnator Chet ::); and brought in nearly 90 million in revenue.
QuoteBut when I watched it recently on my HD TV, it was impossible to tell what was going on at some points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbx39cNQ228
Between 2:04 and 2:13 was probably exclaimed by every person that adjusted their televison's settings trying to watch the film.
Spoiler
EditQuote
And didn't listen to a single one of them
Had to retract that whilst clarifying that citations may be needed for the Plasma Pistol incident.
i lol'd at the its not bright enough part even when i type this haha.
Its so weird though, they come a long way with the suits and everything, it all looks awesome!!
But no soul.....
I think he is saying "What the f**k" not because of the flashlight but rather the revelation of knowing that he has spent months on a project he can't even put on his resume. :laugh:
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 23, 2016, 04:09:46 AMThe difference is that Blomkamp is himself a hardcore fan. He wore out the Aliens VHS tape. He lives and breathes Aliens.
The Strause Bros said exactly the same things during development.
I think those kind of comments really need to just be ignored. Being a fan doesn't really matter, it's capability. It's nice that they have knowledge to avoid any contradictions and etc, but it really comes down to if they're actually good at their jobs.
Paul Anderson said he was a hardcore fan too...but these guys just didn't get what works. They think how cool an Alien's head will look getting blown up, Instead of focusing on the environments and terror side of things.
Lastly, only an idiot would think an Alien movie on Earth would work.
I guess they forgot the main saying that In Space no one can hear you scream.
Well...technically they've all been filmed on Earth... :P
Movies filmed on earth are terrible :D
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jul 25, 2016, 08:00:58 AM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 23, 2016, 04:09:46 AMThe difference is that Blomkamp is himself a hardcore fan. He wore out the Aliens VHS tape. He lives and breathes Aliens.
The Strause Bros said exactly the same things during development.
They probably didn't get to implement what they felt was needed to make a good film and then did a lackluster job to spite it. At least that is my impression after seeing this:
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
It's fun to pick apart why we hate it.
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 25, 2016, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
It's fun to pick apart why we hate it.
If it were 9 years ago it would have been:
"Wate guys, dont hate collin so soon. Lets at least watch him take a shit on our belovid franchize before we say he akchoolie took a shit on it."
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 25, 2016, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
It's fun to pick apart why we hate it.
Quit griping! ;)
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 25, 2016, 09:57:15 PM
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 25, 2016, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
It's fun to pick apart why we hate it.
If it were 9 years ago it would have been:
"Wate guys, dont hate collin so soon. Lets at least watch him take a shit on our belovid franchize before we say he akchoolie took a shit on it."
You know, the difference between Strause and Blomkamp doing fan service is that the Strause boys were actually trying to find out what the fans wanted, while Blomkamp already knows. He's known for decades. Based on what I've seen in his films, the guy just gets it. But there's really no way that the hindsight principle can be accurately applied here. There's no way to know if Blomkamp's film will be awesome or if it will be a stinker until it is made. You just can't tell. All I know, is that as a fen growing up in the 80's, I wanted the story of Ripley and Hicks, and Newt, and Bishop to continue in some sort of logical fashion. The Alien 3 film took leaps of logic to make it happen. That film really jumped the shark by placing an egg on the Sulaco and creating 2 aliens.
Alien sounds and Alien / Predator fusions maybe were on the list of what fans wanted in the AVPR film, but they were way, way way at the bottom of the list. Aliens was the best roller-coaster ride of a film that came out of the eighties, and people wanted that vibe to continue. I think the majority of fans still want that. AVPR missed that mark by a wide margin. One can only hope that Blomkamp will get it right, but of course knowing that it can go, oh so wrong. So far, I think he's coming at it with a better understanding than what Struse Bros did about what fans really want. But if that is not married to an excellent plot, it can still fall flat. I hope not. Fingers crossed.
Believe me when I say this: there is no way that Blomkamp could do a worse job than the Strause Brothers.
The community turnover of fans when Requiem came out was massive whereas at least we can expect new faces with Neill's proposal.
Predators and Prometheus were literally godsends in comparison to Requiem and you can remain optimistic with Covenant, The Predator and Neill's Aliens that it won't just bring new faces but media as well.
I don't know if Blomkamp gets it. When I see Ripley wearing a cone made from some Alien armor on her head...I just don't know...That's the kind of crap Anderson was promoting in 2003 for AVP. Next time I see that picture of conehead Ripley I'm going to whip my phone across the room or crack a screen.
I understand we need an Aliens type movie though, many people craving a good one like that.
I'm just grateful we have the Alien director making a friggin Alien trilogy wooooohoooo. :)
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 12:50:23 AM
I don't know if Blomkamp gets it. When I see Ripley wearing a cone made from some Alien armor on her head...I just don't know...That's the kind of crap Anderson was promoting in 2003 for AVP. Next time I see that picture of conehead Ripley I'm going to whip my phone across the room or crack a screen.
I understand we need an Aliens type movie though many people craving a good one like that.
I'm just grateful we have the Alien director making a friggin trilogy wooooohoooo. :)
This is actually the main thing that irks me about Blomkamp's ideas. This Ripley dressed in the Alien suit is beyond bad. Take it off Ripley! Take it all off!
Yes I'd rather see her naked.
At some point I had read that Alien helmet on Ripley's head was used to mind control Aliens...now that would suck more than a newborn from AR mouth puking eggmorphing someone.
Fox and Ridley Scott probably saw this crap and cancelled the guy's contract...or are deeply editing it. Because that's worse than crap. It's coprophagia lol.
Every time I see this thread's title I want to post 'F*** no lol'
f**k no ;D
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 03:38:08 AM
Yes I'd rather see her naked.
At some point I had read that Alien helmet on Ripley's head was used to mind control Aliens...now that would suck more than a newborn from AR mouth puking eggmorphing someone.
Fox and Ridley Scott probably saw this crap and cancelled the guy's contract...or really editing it. Because that's worse than crap. It's coprophagia lol.
If the Blomkamp film goes down the path of Ripley wearing an alien costume as shown to control the aliens, I will be very disappointed. That is a very bad idea.
I'm not above a human somehow interfacing with alien tech though. I mean if we consider the engineer at the beginning of Prometheus, which is basically a proto-human without that organic armor, and then we consider the engineer at the end of the film which has what appears to be a "grown" armor, it is obvious that the very notion of some sort of body armor / interface does exist in the Alien films now. But that is a very different thing from the silly mask we've seen from Blomkamp. The former is clever and tastefully executed, while the latter is silly and campy. Maybe it's all in the execution.
Moved to Alien 5 board.
Ha. That gave me a chuckle!
Hey Hicks! You think an interview for a future podcast with a Straus bro would be possible? Maybe tell him we want to reminisce and reflect on what happened and to ask about AVP3. Like that poster said, ask him if it's an idea he has on paper, or is it already written, LOL. ;D
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 26, 2016, 06:54:23 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 25, 2016, 08:12:49 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 25, 2016, 07:20:19 PM
Wow, for a movie we almost universally detest, we sure do talk a lot about it. :laugh:
It's fun to pick apart why we hate it.
Quit griping! ;)
NEVER! :laugh:
I think the proper response was, "I like griping". Somebody hasn't seen Alien... ;)
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 26, 2016, 08:08:13 PM
I think the proper response was, "I like griping". Somebody hasn't seen Alien... ;)
I have...just not enough times to memorize the dialogue. :laugh:
Quote from: Kaltes on Jul 26, 2016, 08:17:46 PM
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jul 26, 2016, 08:08:13 PM
I think the proper response was, "I like griping". Somebody hasn't seen Alien... ;)
I have...just not enough times to memorize the dialogue. :laugh:
"We also have Ripley's report on disk. I suggest you study it." -Lt. Gorman, Aliens ;)
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 12:50:23 AM
I don't know if Blomkamp gets it. When I see Ripley wearing a cone made from some Alien armor on her head...I just don't know...That's the kind of crap Anderson was promoting in 2003 for AVP. Next time I see that picture of conehead Ripley I'm going to whip my phone across the room or crack a screen.
I understand we need an Aliens type movie though, many people craving a good one like that.
I'm just grateful we have the Alien director making a friggin Alien trilogy wooooohoooo. :)
After Prometheus I actually want Scott to stay as far away from the Alien franchise as possible.
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Jul 26, 2016, 08:58:36 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 12:50:23 AM
I don't know if Blomkamp gets it. When I see Ripley wearing a cone made from some Alien armor on her head...I just don't know...That's the kind of crap Anderson was promoting in 2003 for AVP. Next time I see that picture of conehead Ripley I'm going to whip my phone across the room or crack a screen.
I understand we need an Aliens type movie though, many people craving a good one like that.
I'm just grateful we have the Alien director making a friggin Alien trilogy wooooohoooo. :)
After Prometheus I actually want Scott to stay as far away from the Alien franchise as possible.
Youre in luck then considering he has the reigns to the entire franchise now.
And its good because with all its faults Prometheus is still the best film the franchise has seen since alien3. It really can't get any worse and stagnant than the avp films anyway so I say let Scott do as he wishes. His worst film is still better than resurrection/avp/avpr IMO.
I just rewatched both AVP films tonight. And no, it absolutely has not gotten better with age. I'd actually love to go into my thoughts on AVP in length, should I find the appropriate thread. It tried. Truly, it did, but it came up short. How short depends on who you ask. I can't say the same for AvPR. I don't think I've ever watched a movie with less shame. Did we ever get a verdict on whether or not the PredAlien ate that nursery? Anyways, the only aspects of the film that truly peak my interest are the moments spent w/ Wolf. He's a badass, & introduced us to new Predator technology. Ultimately however, he sucks at his job. Aliens straight up took over, & would have piliaged the Earth had OWLF not nuked suburban Colorado off the map. If one isn't concerned with quality, the film can be entertaining, in the same way the Sharknado films are entertaining. It would take a lot to unseat Requiem as the worst film either the Alien or Predator franchises have to offer. Fingers crossed it doesn't happen.
The first 'AvP' is pretty dumb fun. The first time I saw it, I was just outright disappointed - actually, I was outright disappointed when I first heard the synopsis: A group of scientists go to Antarctica and find a pyramid full of Aliens being hunted by Predators. It was just a laughable premise. Predictably, I suffered sitting through the movie. Yeah. It was disappointing.
Later I twigged onto what Anderson had actually accomplished, possibly inadvertently, was a movie in the mold of something that ER Burroughs, Arthur C Doyle or H Rider Haggard would have written. A pulp story of 'Boys Own Adventure' quality where a bunch of explorers visit a remote part of the world and the wild adventures that they have there.
In this regard I began to appreciate the movie very differently. It was no longer a Lovecraftian experience - and it was certainly no 'At the Mountains of Madness' which some people claim it to resemble in some ways. I certainly understand the reference but the tone is more in alignment with something like 'The Lost World' or 'At the Earths Core'. Wild adventure stories I grew up reading.
For me, this was the movie's saving grace. It brought home to me what it would be like if ER Burroughs had written a story featuring Aliens and Predators. It was a fundamental shift in perspective that allowed me to gain some form of recompense from the disappointment and watch the movie with a differently aligned sense of appreciation.
'AvP' certainly isn't a great movie by a long shot and it sits near the bottom of terms of my ability to appreciate it, but by goodness! It's the best piece of 1930's pulp action adventure I've seen featuring these antagonists. I sometimes wonder what the movie would have been like if it was shot as a period adventure piece of that era, contemporary to 'King Kong'. How much more digestible would it be if the characters were carrying state of the art firepower in the form of carbines and tommy guns, exploring the cold dark confines of that accursed pyramid? Now that would have been a totally amazing experience.
As for 'AvP-R', it's complete garbage. The only way I can reconcile myself with that movie is that maybe one day Asylum studios will remake it. At least you can see what kind of nonsense is going on in their movies.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Jul 26, 2016, 09:51:41 PMAnd its good because with all its faults Prometheus is still the best film the franchise has seen since alien3.
I'd never say
Resurrection is a better movie than
Prometheus, but I find it far more entertaining, just because it's more successful at what it's trying to be.
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 07:13:32 PM
Hey Hicks! You think an interview for a future podcast with a Straus bro would be possible? Maybe tell him we want to reminisce and reflect on what happened and to ask about AVP3. Like that poster said, ask him if it's an idea he has on paper, or is it already written, LOL. ;D
I can quite confidently say that that isn't ever going to happen. :laugh:
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 27, 2016, 08:01:55 AM
Quote from: Nostromo on Jul 26, 2016, 07:13:32 PM
Hey Hicks! You think an interview for a future podcast with a Straus bro would be possible? Maybe tell him we want to reminisce and reflect on what happened and to ask about AVP3. Like that poster said, ask him if it's an idea he has on paper, or is it already written, LOL. ;D
I can quite confidently say that that isn't ever going to happen. :laugh:
You could still ask, never know until you try. Not like they're doing anything. XD
QuoteI was outright disappointed when I first heard the synopsis: A group of scientists go to Antarctica and find a pyramid full of Aliens being hunted by Predators.
And this was usually followed with a rating that gave the film less than 50% when I saw it online. :laugh:
Put this in perspective; a film called Coming to America had less of a budget but brought in more revenue than the two AvP films combined.
Let that sink in...
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 27, 2016, 07:13:01 PM
QuoteI was outright disappointed when I first heard the synopsis: A group of scientists go to Antarctica and find a pyramid full of Aliens being hunted by Predators.
And this was usually followed with a rating that gave the film less than 50% when I saw it online. :laugh:
Put this in perspective; a film called Coming to America had less of a budget but brought in more revenue than the two AvP films combined.
Let that sink in...
That's a very random & specific comparison...
I should have put it in context. :-[
I was trying to point that it was a mediocre comedy from the 80's and that it's rather disappointing to see it generate more income than our beloved AvP...
I'm starting to regret pointing that out now... :lol:
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 28, 2016, 12:21:04 AM
I'm starting to regret pointing that out now... :lol:
It happens lol
Quote from: System Apollo on Jul 28, 2016, 12:21:04 AM
I was trying to point that it was a mediocre comedy from the 80's and that it's rather disappointing to see it generate more income than our beloved AvP...
I'm starting to regret pointing that out now... :lol:
Darth Vader finds you're lack of quality taste in movies disturbing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DXze55Z2GuY
Come on you can't hate a movie that has Vader's voice actor.
Hey!
In Zamumba no one can hear you scream...
That Vader spoof was hilarious! 😆
Mediocre acting and human characters that are mostly boring aside, I honestly find more enjoyment in AvP:R than Anderson's piece. I think if it had been made in the early or mid 90s, it would be a cult classic. The acting reminds me of what you get out of an Asylum release like Sharknado and the like, but the creature effects in Requiem are something to be appreciated - again, had it been made ten years earlier, I think it would have been more highly regarded.
The Aliens look worse than they ever have and Wolf looks like his face is made of clay. The effects really weren't that good.
They were terribly lit, shot and performed. That one hunched over alien waddling at the power plant? That full shot of an alien blocking a doorway? L O L.
I've defended this movie in the past. I watched it again recently on Blu-Ray.
It's crap. I don't know what the hell I was on about before and I take it back. Look, I get that they were trying to "amp up" the horror aspect after WS's 15-rated version (which I DO think is ace), but the amping up was just in pure bad taste.
Calling the main bloke Dallas wasn't a nod - it was just daft, they may as well have had the soldier as "Ripley."
The best thing about it was the Yutani tie in at the end - that was neat, considering AvP focused on Weyland. But no - it was horrible. I must listen again the the commentary.
There's a part of me that's annoyed because I keep thinking what SiL and SM could have done if Fox had thrown a few million dollars at them and said "go make a movie" (Apologies to the the other writers and uberNerds out there - SIL and SM sprang to my mind first is all)
They're more than qualified than the Brothers Strausse who had zero MOVIE making experience beforehand (I think it was a trend, wasn't it - get a "hot" advert director and give him a franchise).
So yes - opinion revised. It was bollocks with some (albeit few) redeeming features.
The NECA Hybrid/Predalien action figure is now worth a small fortune if you have one, especially if it's still in its package.
That's about the only good thing about that movie that has improved with age.
-Windebieste.
On the special features, they were talking about the oft-maligned darkness (not in tone - the physical darkness) and it appears that it was a choice. They actually wanted it to be that dark. Now, whether that's "Oh, no this film looks so crap we'll have to act like it was supposed like this" or they actually really did want it so you couldn't see anything is unknown to me.
That really is the absolute worst thing about the movie. That fact that I can't see what's going on half the time.
The pace is lacking.
The characters are as disengaging as a movie can get.
There are scenes that are over as soon as they start. The 30 second National Guard scene was the most disposable encounter ever.
I totally get that Wolf was a bad ass - even for a Predator - but really, if he's going to hold up a pair of Aliens at arms length by the neck in each hand, then he really should have both of his eyes poked out by the tails.
Then there's that pregnant woman scene... gah. 'Horror' and 'tasteless', there is a difference, y'know; and this was just horrible.
Oh, and what is the point of Wolf going around and dribbling blue shit around the place to destroy evidence in terms of narrative when in the end it doesn't matter anyway? What a f*cking awful movie.
Now that I think about it, having the movie be so dark may have been one of its better points. lol.
Actually, the more I think about how much of a disappointment this thing was the angrier I get. Gah. Cinema at its worst.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 23, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
Then there's that pregnant woman scene... gah. 'Horror' and 'tasteless', there is a difference, y'know; and this was just horrible.
That's exactly what I mean. It just went too far there - it was horrid and pointless. You're not going to outdo the chestburster - so don't explode pregnant ladies and think its "cool." It was vile. Its just a bad idea.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/my-favorite-part-qst9vs.jpg)
Quote from: Russ on Aug 23, 2016, 11:51:54 AM
Quote from: windebieste on Aug 23, 2016, 11:48:16 AM
Then there's that pregnant woman scene... gah. 'Horror' and 'tasteless', there is a difference, y'know; and this was just horrible.
That's exactly what I mean. It just went too far there - it was horrid and pointless. You're not going to outdo the chestburster - so don't explode pregnant ladies and think its "cool." It was vile. Its just a bad idea.
One of AVPR's main strengths is a throwback to 80s exploitation/b movie. It's like Antropophagus meets Critters 2.
Except I can still watch Critters 2.
Quote from: Nostromo on Aug 23, 2016, 12:24:54 PM
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/my-favorite-part-qst9vs.jpg)
Ha! Funny and true..
Quote from: Scorpio on Aug 23, 2016, 01:06:50 PM
One of AVPR's main strengths is a throwback to 80s exploitation/b movie. It's like Antropophagus meets Critters 2.
Don't get me wrong - I really want to love this movie. Was that in their thinking? That it was a homage to those kind of exploitation movies (as I say, I'll have to relisten to the commentary)? I can't imagine why they would make that choice though - if you're given a franchise like that, making a throwback to an exploitation movie shouldn't be on your mind. Should it? Well - it wouldn't be my first thought, but who knows - I don't know what their concept was for sure other than they wanted to set it in space but the producer told them that was too expensive.
I thought their mission was a Quantum Leap-esque attempt "to put right what had once gone wrong" - IE, improve on AvP which (despite being entertaining) didn't satisfy many fans. So they set out to make a more R-Rated horror-action... Like "Aliens" - I think that was R-Rated in 86? I'd have to check though.
I guess you could be right - Death Proof, Grindhouse, Kill Bill et al were around at that time, weren't they.
Quote from: Russ on Aug 23, 2016, 11:34:58 AM
On the special features, they were talking about the oft-maligned darkness (not in tone - the physical darkness) and it appears that it was a choice. They actually wanted it to be that dark. Now, whether that's "Oh, no this film looks so crap we'll have to act like it was supposed like this" or they actually really did want it so you couldn't see anything is unknown to me.
I know stupidity shouldn't surprise me...but Jesus f**king Christ, seriously?
My 2nd favorite part in AVPR is this one, one of the all time greatest scenes in cinematic history:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-AXd8tpiwnGc%2FVeDaEs1f0aI%2FAAAAAAAAQEo%2FAYTfbTx000M%2Fs320%2F3451109719_096.bmp&hash=82a5ac91b176a7cc7511841067f729fba0f5cb4f)
Quote from: Russ on Aug 23, 2016, 11:17:41 AM
I've defended this movie in the past. I watched it again recently on Blu-Ray.
It's crap. I don't know what the hell I was on about before and I take it back. Look, I get that they were trying to "amp up" the horror aspect after WS's 15-rated version (which I DO think is ace), but the amping up was just in pure bad taste.
Calling the main bloke Dallas wasn't a nod - it was just daft, they may as well have had the soldier as "Ripley."
The best thing about it was the Yutani tie in at the end - that was neat, considering AvP focused on Weyland. But no - it was horrible. I must listen again the the commentary.
There's a part of me that's annoyed because I keep thinking what SiL and SM could have done if Fox had thrown a few million dollars at them and said "go make a movie" (Apologies to the the other writers and uberNerds out there - SIL and SM sprang to my mind first is all)
They're more than qualified than the Brothers Strausse who had zero MOVIE making experience beforehand (I think it was a trend, wasn't it - get a "hot" advert director and give him a franchise).
So yes - opinion revised. It was bollocks with some (albeit few) redeeming features.
You've seen the light :)
Quote from: lv_226 on Aug 23, 2016, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: Russ on Aug 23, 2016, 11:17:41 AM
I've defended this movie in the past. I watched it again recently on Blu-Ray.
It's crap. I don't know what the hell I was on about before and I take it back. Look, I get that they were trying to "amp up" the horror aspect after WS's 15-rated version (which I DO think is ace), but the amping up was just in pure bad taste.
Calling the main bloke Dallas wasn't a nod - it was just daft, they may as well have had the soldier as "Ripley."
The best thing about it was the Yutani tie in at the end - that was neat, considering AvP focused on Weyland. But no - it was horrible. I must listen again the the commentary.
There's a part of me that's annoyed because I keep thinking what SiL and SM could have done if Fox had thrown a few million dollars at them and said "go make a movie" (Apologies to the the other writers and uberNerds out there - SIL and SM sprang to my mind first is all)
They're more than qualified than the Brothers Strausse who had zero MOVIE making experience beforehand (I think it was a trend, wasn't it - get a "hot" advert director and give him a franchise).
So yes - opinion revised. It was bollocks with some (albeit few) redeeming features.
You've seen the light :)
You mean he's seen the dark. ;) Lack of light was a part of the problem...
The only thing good about Avp-r is the wolf predator.
Quote from: frasermaxx on Aug 25, 2016, 08:25:55 PM
The only thing good about Avp-r is the wolf predator.
Definitely.
To be fair, the score wasn't awful.
I don't even remember the score...save for maybe the theme that places when we're introduced to Wolf.
Quote from: Kaltes on Aug 26, 2016, 04:37:43 PM
I don't even remember the score...save for maybe the theme that places when we're introduced to Wolf.
That's exactly it. It may not be bad, but neither is it memorable. Alien 3's soundtrack is quite good, and it is thoroughly haunting. Beautiful music that was.
Just watched AvPR blue ray on my new 4k TV.
I can tell you that it has made all the difference.
It's no longer so dark and I can actually see the movie.
It's really amazing.
Whaaaat?
I can just see everyone on here getting 4K TVs to enjoy their AVPR! 😆 Can you imagine?
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Sep 27, 2016, 10:18:00 PM
Just watched AvPR blue ray on my new 4k TV.
I can tell you that it has made all the difference.
It's no longer so dark and I can actually see the movie.
It's really amazing.
Thats the problem i have with lcds. do they make 4 k crts? it sounds stupid but would probably look amazing.
You actually let it see the light of day?
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Sep 27, 2016, 10:18:00 PMJust watched AvPR blue ray on my new 4k TV.
I can tell you that it has made all the difference.
It's no longer so dark and I can actually see the movie.
It's really amazing.
That surprises me. I wouldn't have thought upscaling it to 4k would suddenly solve the darkness issues.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 28, 2016, 09:28:32 AM
Quote from: Sabres21768 on Sep 27, 2016, 10:18:00 PMJust watched AvPR blue ray on my new 4k TV.
I can tell you that it has made all the difference.
It's no longer so dark and I can actually see the movie.
It's really amazing.
That surprises me. I wouldn't have thought upscaling it to 4k would suddenly solve the darkness issues.
Bluray hasn't made any difference for me, still have to enhance my brightness. Mind you my tv isn't a 4ktv so who knows.
but I can't imagine brightness would improve the film.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Sep 28, 2016, 04:19:12 PM
but I can't imagine brightness would improve the film.
In terms of story? No. Visuals and effects? Yes. Sort of.
I kind of doubt that, I have had my light levels enhanced many times and on different levels, the visual effects are not impressive or better. Nothing about this movie is really any good. Of course, that is just my opinion.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Sep 28, 2016, 06:18:27 PM
I kind of doubt that, I have had my light levels enhanced many times and on different levels, the visual effects are not impressive or better. Nothing about this movie is really any good. Of course, that is just my opinion.
Good point...Wolf doesn't look too great in light.
After The Rage War, I think AVPR can be viewed as superb storytelling in comparison. I get why people dislike AVPR for being a shallow teenager-oriented film, but the film did capture nice AVP action while doing both monsters a form of respect. The Rage War once again allied Predators with humans, not only on a personal level but on a galactic level as well and it also reduced the Aliens to be mindless slaves to humans (not the pure killing machines that Ash described, but a corrupted creature under the malign influence of others).
Quote from: predxeno on Oct 02, 2016, 09:05:40 PM
After The Rage War, I think AVPR can be viewed as superb storytelling in comparison. I get why people dislike AVPR for being a shallow teenager-oriented film, but the film did capture nice AVP action while doing both monsters a form of respect. The Rage War once again allied Predators with humans, not only on a personal level but on a galactic level as well and it also reduced the Aliens to be mindless slaves to humans (not the pure killing machines that Ash described, but a corrupted creature under the malign influence of others).
That's...pathetic. You're telling me every Rage War book has Human controlled Aliens? Glad I didn't buy any of those.
It's worse than that, do you recall that in Alien nobody used guns for fear of the Alien's acid blood causing a hull breach? This problem has mysteriously disappeared and humans have no problem shooting Aliens (modified so they self-destruct on death) on a ship smaller than the Nostromo. Also, Aliens seem to show up on thermal now thus negating Dietrich's claim in Aliens that they don't show up on thermal at all despite the fact that she looked straight at one with thermal.
Any continuity problems AVPR might have had pale in comparison to what Rage War has done.
Maybe continue this discussion in the AVP Rage War thread. I'm not sure who comes up with these crappy ideas, is it the writer or someone from Fox studio. You'd think they would know already these stupid ideas don't work after 40 years.
Yes, moving things back on topic, I know there are a lot more AVPR fans than numbers may suggest; many of them are just still in the closet. I had a lot of competition when I purchased the AVPR Master Trading Card set from Inkworks.
If IMDB is any metric, 35826 people rate it 6/10 or higher.
57602 people rate it 5/10 or lower.
Quote from: Nostromo on Oct 02, 2016, 09:59:11 PM
Maybe continue this discussion in the AVP Rage War thread. I'm not sure who comes up with these crappy ideas, is it the writer or someone from Fox studio. You'd think they would know already these stupid ideas don't work after 40 years.
It's not quite as black and white as PZ paints it but you can find out more the Rage War thread.
No, this movie has only gotten worse with time. Not a single thing about it makes sense. NOT. ONE. THING. I have never seen a movie where literally every scene gives me something to complain about.
1. The opening 20th century Fox logo is a rip off of Alien 3. The way the music fades out is almost the exact same way Alien 3 did it. Get used to this, you're going to notice a lot of these forced references.
2. The opening credits start and we see the credits are spelled out in a cheap, cliche' metal font and we hear the sound of motion trackers. Why? There are none in this movie, why are we hearing motion trackers? This movie hasn't even started and I'm already annoyed.
3. We see scar lying dead on his alter from the first AVP, except now everything is different. The interior of the ship is different and the ship is clearly heading in a completely different direction than it was at the end of the first movie. Continuity? What's that?
4. The Predators have facehuggers onboard their ship and not only that, we see a predator skinning a dead alien's head. Soooo...What was the point of the pyramid if you could just breed and hunt aliens onboard your own ship? In the first AVP, they made it seem like the Pyramid was their only means of doing their hunting ritual, that's why they returned every 100 years. But no, they could have done it anywhere and anytime. *beep* stupid.
5. The Predalien proves that she's an effective killing machine: she wastes no time killing two predators, just like any alien would. REMEMBER THAT!
6. The third predator on the ship opens fire on the predalien and like a complete moron continues to open fire thus causing the ship to crash. Are Predators really this stupid? No, it's just an excuse to get this story centered in Dawson's Creek....I mean Gunnison.
7. How long does it take for a predator ship to leave earth? We see the Predalien being born, we see her grow, we see that a predator has had enough time to breed, fight and kill an alien. So why is it that when the ship gets damaged they are still in earth's orbit? that thing should have been half way to Saturn by the time the first predator died. We're not even 5 minutes into this thing and the film already has the biggest plot holes in the series.
8. Why is it that when this huge, loud, crashing ship lands outside of Gunnison, no one sees it except for some father and son hunting team in the woods?
9. The surviving Predator is badly injured and lying on the floor, he's so hurt that he can't even get up and he notices the facehuggers are escaping. So instead of, you know, just blowing himself up like any predator would have done. He sends a distress signal instead. Why didn't he just blow himself up and save Wolf all the trouble? I've seen Predators blow themselves up for less.
10. The biggest and most glaring problem with this movie is WOLF. The fact that the Strause brothers thought it was a good idea to send one predator instead of a team shows how much they don't understand the alien series, the importance of tension, or the expectations of the common movie goer. In the alien series and even the first AVP movie, they made it absolutely clear that the aliens can never reach earth or they would spread and take over the world. "They mustn't reach the surface! They mustn't reach the surface!" At least Paul W.S Anderson understood the importance of keeping the aliens from reaching civilized land. This is everything Ripley feared and died to prevent and how do the Strause brothers treat the situation? Oh they just send a glorified predator janitor to clean up the mess. As if that's all the aliens are to the predators: a minor nuisance that can be taken care of by just one of them. The strause brothers just went up to Ridley Scott,James Cameron, David Fincher, Jean-Pierre Jeunet and Paul W.S Anderson and said; "Hey guys, you know that creature you all spent so much time trying to make scary and menacing? Well we're about to *beep* all over your efforts." If there is only one predator then there is no tension in the fights, we know he has to live until the end or else the movie couldn't justify its title. Of course, as we all know, the Strause brothers' justification for sending one predator is that Wolf is an ubber-dooper-super –dooper-mega-awesome-most-experienced-predator that ever lived.....ever. Too bad everything wolf does proves otherwise.
11. So after that *beep* is over, We get to meet our human characters. All 7 of them...in a movie that's only an hour and half.
We got an ex-con trying to reconnect with his younger brother.
-A Mother back from overseas trying to reconnect with her daughter.
-The jail bird's younger brother trying to get the attention of some hot chick.
-A mother looking for her husband and son.
-A sheriff trying to figure out why people are disappearing.
All of these subplots and characters are given little to no development because of the short running time and the fact that we have to cut away from all of these stories to see Wolf hunt aliens. They should have just stuck to one human story and developed it. Not juggle 5 at once.
12. The predalien and the facehuggers have managed to birth a few aliens and they look absolutely pathetic. What happened to the 8-foot-tall Giger beast that towered over everyone? Now a homeless woman is looking down on one like a dog. Wolf arrives on earth and crashes into a lake. He rises from the water just like the predator in the first movie. What a rip off.
13. It's at this point you realize something about the night time scenes in this movie. THEY ARE WAAAAYYY too Dark. Yeah, I know it's been said a million times but there is no excuse for this in a major motion picture.
14. Wolf runs through the woods and finds the crashed ship....I think, I can barely see anything.
15. He loads up his weapons....AFTER he lands on earth and finds his dead friends. Yeah, I'm sure that's what an expert cleaner would do: land in a potentially hostile environment, enter the crashed ship, search for his friends and THEN arm himself.
16. The Strause Brothers try so hard to make Wolf LOOK like a badass but never give him any badass things to do. It's like I can hear the strause brothers saying "you know how most predators only have one symbol on their masks? Well Wolf has like...50...yeah, and he sits in this huge throne, like a king and he's got like....two shoulder cannons. See how cool he is?" Wolf is the worst predator ever conceived just for the fact that he was made to please fan boys and not tell a story. I'll delve into that later.
17. Wolf blows up the ship and sets out on his mission....and no one heard or saw this massive explosion just outside of town? Is everyone in Gunnison blind and deaf?
18. Wolf tracks down the dead bodies of the hunter and his son and uses some blue liquid to dissolve the bodies. So this is how Wolf is going to erase evidence? He's going to go place to place and just drop this *beep* everywhere? The funny thing Is, I didn't see any other vile of this stuff in his case. He only brought one vile? I guess, you don't ever see any others.
19. Wolf notices a cop spying on him and kills him. Why? He erased all the evidence of the aliens and dead bodies, so why would he care to kill this harmless cop? He didn't threaten him, he didn't do anything. Was it because he didn't want the humans to be alerted to his presence? No, that can't be it because later he skins the cop and hangs him up for the world to see.
20. Wolf finally tracks down the aliens in a sewer and it's here where we finally get to see Wolf's skill as a hunter. He walks cautiously through the sewer and....doesn't notice the alien casually hanging to his left. With his Alien vision, that thing should have been as easily spotted as headlights on a dark road. But that's ok because he keeps on going and...walks past another alien without noticing. Boy, Wolf really is aware of his surroundings...just like a true elite, right?...Right?
21. Why didn't those two aliens kill him? Oh right, because we can't have our one and only predator dying before the climax.
22. Wolf sets up some grid like laser nets and then screams out to the aliens to come and get him. Yeah, they'll only attack when Wolf is good and ready for a fight...good thing the aliens are such good sports.
23. He fights the aliens and it's painful to watch. ( If you can see anything at all that is) He tosses the aliens around like rag dolls and holds two of them up by their throats like they were nothing. Are these the 8-foot-tall perfect organisms from the original alien series? Are these the ultimate Prey from the first AVP movie? No, they're 4 foot tall pussies who can't even get out of the grip of the predator's hand. And before you bring up the whole "experienced elder" get out of jail card: Keep in mind that grabbing someone by the throat takes no skill or experience at all. I can grab a cat by the neck and he'd scratch the living hell out of my arm. What do these aliens do? Nothing, they don't scratch him with their claws, they don't stab him with their tails or spit acid in his face or just you know, simply over power him.
24. And since Wolf Is such an expert at killing aliens, he's going to do the most logical execution move on these aliens...He's going to shoot them at pointblank range. Yeah, because that's what you want to do to a creature with acid for blood.
25. The predalien shows up and smacks wolf with her tail. Why didn't she just kill him like she did with all the other predators at the beginning of the movie? Oh right, we can't have our only Predator die too early.
26. The aliens leave the sewers and wolf follows them and because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself, he uses his Nintendo power glove to blow a giant hole in the middle of the street and rises out of the hole uncloaked. He's quite the expert isn't he?
27. While Wolf follows a single alien to a power plant. The predalien and her crew invade a restaurant and impregnate a waitress with like 5 or 6 new aliens: more than making up for the two wolf killed in the sewer. So far, Wolf hasn't made a stitch of progress in his mission to wipe out the aliens.
28. By the way, you're probably wondering why I'm not mentioning any of the human characters. Well like I said, they're so
underdeveloped they aren't worth mentioning.
29. Wolf tracks an alien to a power plant and you won't believe this: an Alien actually gets the better of him. He surprise attacks him and shoves him over a railing and impales him on a metal pipe. Yeah, gravity and a conveniently placed pipe did the real damage, god forbid we actually let the aliens get some real hits off Wolf. So after inflicting damage on wolf, what does the alien do? Nothing, he just goes for a casual stroll somewhere. Isn't he going to finish the job? Did he get bored or something? I also love how he slowly walks away even with wolf shooting at him. Thank god a bunch of metal was blocking his shots otherwise that alien would have died.
30. After Wolf causes a blackout, the aliens begin taking over the town. There's an alien at a school who just killed some kid. Wolf shows up and kills him. Why did wolf come here? How did he know there was an alien in this school? Why this alien? Doesn't he know the Predalien is his primary target? While he's wasting his time killing all these aliens one by one, the predalien is giving birth to like 50 more.
31. Wolf hides in a tree to heal his wound from the power plant. You'll notice a huge trail of green blood going up the tree, he's bleeding like crazy and yet he chooses NOW to heal his wound. Not before he made his pointless trip from the power plant to the school...nope, now is the time. Damn Wolf really knows what he's doing, huh?
32. Wolf's healing scene is retarded. He got pierced with a thick pipe, he's bleeding like crazy and how does he heal himself? He sticks a small metal staple in his wound, that's it. He doesn't stitch himself up like the predator from the first movie or burn the wound like the one from predator 2 did. He just sticks a small...thing in his wound and is good to go. Never mind the fact that he should still be bleeding from both the front AND the back.
33. So after that, he looks to his side and sees....traffic. He then rises into a badass pose as if he's going to do something about it. What the *beep* is he going to do? Direct traffic? What was the motivation for that scene?
34. Wolf finds some humans in a department store. He uses them as bait to lure some aliens. Even though the aliens were already breaking into the store to begin with.
35. Once again, the aliens embarrass themselves by trying to attack wolf. He shrugs them off like nothing as expected. No tension, no suspense, no fun.
36. Later we see the dead aliens lying on the floor. Apparently wolf doesn't give a *beep* about erasing evidence anymore.
37. Wolf throws away his broken shoulder cannon and leaves it on the roof. Apparently, he also doesn't care about leaving his tech around either. He also left his laser grids in the sewers. Something Humans would have easily found after he left a giant hole in the middle of the street.
38. Wolf notices that the aliens have taken over a hospital....and pretty much the whole town. Wolf has failed at his mission. So what exactly was the point of sending one Predator to stop an alien outbreak? I thought wolf was supposed to be god among predators: the best of the best; the ultimate elite badass? I guess not, he's just an incompetent moron whose only purpose is to make predator fanboys wet themselves.
39. Wolf goes to the hospital and like a true predator, he quietly sneaks in through a window....nah, I'm kidding, he breaks through the front door and makes as much noise as possible.
40. Wolf walks through the hospital and once again the Predalien gets the drop on him and instead of killing him, smacks him with her tail...again.
41. the Predalien is a pussy who backs off from a little scratch from Wolf's wrist blades and would rather let one of her worthless drones attack Wolf. Something she knew was pointless because she had to save two of them earlier in the movie.
42. Wolf stabs the alien and doesn't get any acid blood on him. He then shoots it at pointblank range and STILL doesn't get any acid blood on him. The Aliens once again prove to be weak, stupid, and worthless. Except for that one part where they took out an entire military unit in under a minute. Yeah OK, they can work together to take out an entire military unit but not a single predator? A stupid Predator who just walks around announcing his presence to the world?
43. Wolf kills some guy's girlfriend. And the guy unloads a machine gun at him and not one bullet makes contact with his skin. His armor only covers 30% of his body and not a single bullet or drop of acid blood touches his skin. GOD THIS MOVIE SUCKS!
44. Wolf finally goes one on one with the predalien but not before giving one final insult to one of cinema's greatest monsters. He slices an alien in half and as if to add insult to injury he walks over and crushes his head like a beer can.
45. Wolf fights the predalien and stabs it with his spear and the predalien responds by punching him in the face. Whatever happened to the pussy who backed off from Wolf's wrist blades? Oh, now the predalien has some balls. Too bad she doesn't have any brains since she once again just smacks him with her tail instead of just killing him...for the third time.
46. Wolf takes off all of his gear and the predalien just stands there and lets him do it. Aliens love a fair fight now?
47. During their fight the predalien manages to stab Wolf in the shoulder with her inner jaw. Why didn't she just stab him through his head like she did with...ahhh you get it by now.
48. The predalien manages to beat the crap out of wolf and instead of finally letting the aliens have a victory over him: wolf rips out the predalien's tongue and stabs her in the head, the predalien then stabs him with her tail. It's a draw. It has to be a draw, otherwise it wouldn't be fair to the predator fans. ::)
49. The government decides to nuke the town just because one military unit was defeated. They have no information about the aliens that would justify them nuking a town. and to top it off: the government just did Wolf's job for him. So what purpose did Wolf have in this movie? They could have done this whole movie without him and nothing would change.
50. At least Paul W.S Anderson knew how to balance out the creatures so both of them had their moment in the spotlight.
51. at least Paul W.S Anderson Knew you can't have the aliens running around Anytown USA because that means the world would end.
52. Making the Aliens this weak is not only an insult to the aliens but the predators as well. Why would the Predators, a race of hunters who live for the challenge and thrill of the hunt, waste their time with a bunch of pathetic little insects? What bragging right would they have for hanging an alien skull on their wall? They might as well mount the skulls of kittens while their at it.
53. Aliens can all of a sudden barf embryos into people? I know the strause brothers said it was because she was a queen or some stupid *beep* like that but I shouldn't have to look up the answer online. The movie should tell me why and it didn't.
This movie sucks so much that I enjoyed Predators and Prometheus more than I probably should have. Mediocrity always looks great when compared to horse shit, I guess.
Don't stop now dude, you're on a roll! Lol, great post!
This movie needs to be buried. Literally. We should all just take our copies outside and bury them in the dirt.
You absolutely destroyed everything about AVP: R that I hated as well, I tip my hat to you sir.
Quote26. The aliens leave the sewers and wolf follows them and because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself, he uses his Nintendo power glove to blow a giant hole in the middle of the street and rises out of the hole uncloaked. He's quite the expert isn't he?
Lost it here. :laugh:
You might also want to mention how in the cemetery scene; a man with a revolver calls over the protagonist and her daughter only to tell them to shut up and keep down in order to avoid any attention from the predator... Yet he shouted to call them over...
QuoteThis movie sucks so much that I enjoyed Predators and Prometheus more than I probably should have. Mediocrity always looks great when compared to horse shit, I guess.
Thank you.. ;D
AvP:R
Alien Versus Predator: Ridiculous
Alien Versus Predator: Runawayfromthisshittymovie
AvP-R is so bad it's good IMO
AvP is just bad
Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 05, 2016, 10:44:01 PM
Quote26. The aliens leave the sewers and wolf follows them and because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself, he uses his Nintendo power glove to blow a giant hole in the middle of the street and rises out of the hole uncloaked. He's quite the expert isn't he?
Lost it here. :laugh:
You might also want to mention how in the cemetery scene; a man with a revolver calls over the protagonist and her daughter only to tell them to shut up and keep down in order to avoid any attention from the predator... Yet he shouted to call them over...
Oh yeah, I forgot about the extended cut. Which seems to substitute one problem with a new one.
1. In the extended cut, we see that it was actually a scout ship that crashed to Earth. Which begs the new question of Why did this scout ship go back to earth? did one of them drop their keys in Antarctica?
2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
3. After he kills that guy, he sees Kelly and her daughter run away, and THEN rises into a badass pose. Implying that he's going to hunt down an innocent mother and her child? Based on everything else he's done so far, It wouldn't surprise me if he actually took the time to do that.
I love how the more I think about this movie the dumber It gets.
4. Wolf takes off his mask to fight the predalien. Even though the mask is the only way he can actually see her since Aliens don't show up in infrared. Yup, this will totally tip the odds in his favor.
5. Wolf is supposed to be an Elite and the Predalien is supposed to be a queen? There isn't a single indication of either of these things being true. As far as the audience is concerned: Wolf is just another Predator and the Predalien is just another Alien. and as far as we're concerned we should accept them as just that, because a movie needs to either show us or tell us these things, f**k what the Strause brothers said in an interview. There isn't a single moment that conveys either of these ideas. I never saw Wolf with a massive trophy collection and I never saw the predalien laying any eggs.
This movie is such a beautifully woven tapestry of shit. They need to show this movie in film school as a perfect example of how not to make a movie. It contradicts everything established in the Alien and Predator movies,the first AVP, it even contradicts itself. It fails on a writing level, on a directing level, even on a basic technical level.
I would rather stare at the Alien: Covenant poster for 90 minutes than watch this abortion again.
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
You make it sound like Wolf is a robot programed to kill anyone with a gun. Predators kill for sport, there's no sport in killing humans in this situation. There are humans all over this town with guns at this point, is he just going to take time off from his mission to kill them too?
Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Nov 26, 2016, 02:58:23 AM
Quote from: System Apollo on Nov 05, 2016, 10:44:01 PM
Quote26. The aliens leave the sewers and wolf follows them and because he doesn't want to draw attention to himself, he uses his Nintendo power glove to blow a giant hole in the middle of the street and rises out of the hole uncloaked. He's quite the expert isn't he?
Lost it here. :laugh:
You might also want to mention how in the cemetery scene; a man with a revolver calls over the protagonist and her daughter only to tell them to shut up and keep down in order to avoid any attention from the predator... Yet he shouted to call them over...
Oh yeah, I forgot about the extended cut. Which seems to substitute one problem with a new one.
1. In the extended cut, we see that it was actually a scout ship that crashed to Earth. Which begs the new question of Why did this scout ship go back to earth? did one of them drop their keys in Antarctica?
2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
3. After he kills that guy, he sees Kelly and her daughter run away, and THEN rises into a badass pose. Implying that he's going to hunt down an innocent mother and her child? Based on everything else he's done so far, It wouldn't surprise me if he actually took the time to do that.
I love how the more I think about this movie the dumber It gets.
4. Wolf takes off his mask to fight the predalien. Even though the mask is the only way he can actually see her since Aliens don't show up in infrared. Yup, this will totally tip the odds in his favor.
5. Wolf is supposed to be an Elite and the Predalien is supposed to be a queen? There isn't a single indication of either of these things being true. As far as the audience is concerned: Wolf is just another Predator and the Predalien is just another Alien. and as far as we're concerned we should accept them as just that, because a movie needs to either show us or tell us these things, f**k what the Strause brothers said in an interview. There isn't a single moment that conveys either of these ideas. I never saw Wolf with a massive trophy collection and I never saw the predalien laying any eggs.
This movie is such a beautifully woven tapestry of shit. They need to show this movie in film school as a perfect example of how not to make a movie. It contradicts everything established in the Alien and Predator movies, even the first AVP. it fails on a writing level, on a directing level, even on a basic technical level.
I would rather stare at the Alien: Covenant poster for 90 minutes than watch this abortion again.
This guy gets it
Wolf blew the guys head off because he was threatening a women with child. It's hard to see but if you increase the brightness enough... yea ok I'm just assuming that. The bad ass pose was body language for run little girl, you're free.
He took his helmet off because predators are overly macho manly man-alieny-critters. I mean what else does the average tough guy in a movie do when shit ain't going their way, they raise their dukes while talking shit that literally has no shit backing it.
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
And? He was there to clean a mess. The guy with a gun wasn't threatening him, and he didn't do anything with the body after. He just blew his head off cos f**k it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Nov 26, 2016, 10:26:15 AM
The bad ass pose was body language for run little girl, you're free.
He actually follows them to the department store implying that he actually had plans for them. Was he gonna kill them or string them up and use them as bait? Either way, it's out of character for a predator. I can see why they deleted this whole scene and replaced it with him looking at traffic. It's still a dumb nonesensical scene, why couldn't he see more aliens going into town and then rise into his superhero pose?
That at least would have made sense.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 26, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
And? He was there to clean a mess. The guy with a gun wasn't threatening him, and he didn't do anything with the body after. He just blew his head off cos f**k it.
Forward planning.
I don't see what the problem is. Predator kills armed opponents. He killed guys in the first film while he was invisible - they didn't pose any threat 'cos they couldn't see him. Blain never knew what hit him.
Deputy Ray, on the other hand, who was killed and skinned and left hanging in a tree, was mindbogglingly dumb.
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 09:53:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 26, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
And? He was there to clean a mess. The guy with a gun wasn't threatening him, and he didn't do anything with the body after. He just blew his head off cos f**k it.
I don't see what the problem is. Predator kills armed opponents. He killed guys in the first film while he was invisible - they didn't pose any threat 'cos they couldn't see him. Blain never knew what hit him.
You mean the guys he watched slaughter the Insurgent Guerrillas?
Predator 2 killed armed civilians in a subway...
Quote from: Omegamorph on Nov 27, 2016, 12:59:32 AM
Predator 2 killed armed civilians in a subway...
In the middle of a gun fire
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 12:41:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 09:53:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 26, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
And? He was there to clean a mess. The guy with a gun wasn't threatening him, and he didn't do anything with the body after. He just blew his head off cos f**k it.
I don't see what the problem is. Predator kills armed opponents. He killed guys in the first film while he was invisible - they didn't pose any threat 'cos they couldn't see him. Blain never knew what hit him.
You mean the guys he watched slaughter the Insurgent Guerrillas?
Doesn't mean they posed any threat to an invisible hunter with long range energy weapons. It wasn't like he appeared and dared them to take their best shot. As I said, Blain literally never knew what hit him.
The original Predator killed Blaine for a trophy. P2 Predator was there specifically to hunt humans.
Wolf blew the guy's head off for no reason. He wasn't there for human trophies, he didn't do anything with the body, and the guy never knew he was there, let alone threatened him. It was done purely for a cheap gore moment.
Quote from: SM on Nov 27, 2016, 08:57:32 AM
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 12:41:38 AM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 09:53:52 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 26, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Nov 26, 2016, 03:08:35 AM
Quote2. Wolf Kills a guy for simply holding a gun during an Alien outbreak. It's official: I have no idea what Wolf is doing here: is he here to erase evidence or is he just here for shits and giggles? He's not here for sport, right? So why did he kill that guy?
Quoteholding a gun
And? He was there to clean a mess. The guy with a gun wasn't threatening him, and he didn't do anything with the body after. He just blew his head off cos f**k it.
I don't see what the problem is. Predator kills armed opponents. He killed guys in the first film while he was invisible - they didn't pose any threat 'cos they couldn't see him. Blain never knew what hit him.
You mean the guys he watched slaughter the Insurgent Guerrillas?
Doesn't mean they posed any threat to an invisible hunter with long range energy weapons. It wasn't like he appeared and dared them to take their best shot. As I said, Blain literally never knew what hit him.
They were worthy prey, Anytime watched they prove themselves as dangerous Soldiers.
In P2 he was in the middle of a gunfire, he killed everyone who had a weapon
In AvP movies... killing a guy that was freezing to death, chasing a mother and her child...
The biggest fault the AVP movies made was showing us predators who weren't hunting.They didn't improved
and are unwatchable.
Quotekilling a guy that was freezing to death
What? I don't remember this, was this in the extended cut of AVP?
Quote from: Predator_Spirit on Nov 27, 2016, 04:55:30 PM
The biggest fault the AVP movies made was showing us predators who weren't hunting.They didn't improved
and are unwatchable.
All the Predators did in AVP was hunt that was the whole premise of the movie. Predators hunting Aliens and all the Weyland Mercenaries who got in the way.
Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Nov 27, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
Quotekilling a guy that was freezing to death
What? I don't remember this, was this in the extended cut of AVP?
Quote from: Predator_Spirit on Nov 27, 2016, 04:55:30 PM
The biggest fault the AVP movies made was showing us predators who weren't hunting.They didn't improved
and are unwatchable.
All the Predators did in AVP was hunt that was the whole premise of the movie. Predators hunting Aliens and all the Weyland Mercenaries who got in the way.
https://youtu.be/9D5xbyZhy9Y?t=47
Also, in the second movie Wolf was there to hunt the Xenos, not chase after humans and their offspring and kill people that posed no threath to him.
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 08:19:36 PM
Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Nov 27, 2016, 07:54:10 PM
Quotekilling a guy that was freezing to death
What? I don't remember this, was this in the extended cut of AVP?
Quote from: Predator_Spirit on Nov 27, 2016, 04:55:30 PM
The biggest fault the AVP movies made was showing us predators who weren't hunting.They didn't improved
and are unwatchable.
All the Predators did in AVP was hunt that was the whole premise of the movie. Predators hunting Aliens and all the Weyland Mercenaries who got in the way.
https://youtu.be/9D5xbyZhy9Y?t=47
Also, in the second movie Wolf was there to hunt the Xenos, not chase after humans and their offspring and kill people that posed no threath to him.
That guy actually engaged them in combat so it's a fair kill. But Yes, Everything Wolf did in AVPR made no sense.
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 08:19:36 PM
https://youtu.be/9D5xbyZhy9Y?t=47
This is after he put a round through Celtic's shoulder with a gun. It's not any different to Anytime trying to kill Arnie after he'd lost his weapons and was crawling around half naked in the mud.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2016, 10:53:46 PM
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 08:19:36 PM
https://youtu.be/9D5xbyZhy9Y?t=47
This is after he put a round through Celtic's shoulder with a gun. It's not any different to Anytime trying to kill Arnie after he'd lost his weapons and was crawling around half naked in the mud.
There is a difference btw a dangerous soldier and a guy that got a lucky shot
The guy put a hole through Celtic's shoulder. Predators have killed for less.
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2016, 10:53:46 PM
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Nov 27, 2016, 08:19:36 PM
https://youtu.be/9D5xbyZhy9Y?t=47
This is after he put a round through Celtic's shoulder with a gun. It's not any different to Anytime trying to kill Arnie after he'd lost his weapons and was crawling around half naked in the mud.
There is a difference btw a dangerous soldier and a guy that got a lucky shot
A threat is a threat, predators don't nitpick. The predator in predator 2 would have killed the boy in the cemetery if he didn't put his toy gun down.
He stopped when he realised it was fake.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2016, 12:00:19 AM
He stopped when he realised it was fake.
Did he? I never could tell how he knew it was fake.
It always irked me how Quinn managed to spot Celtic in the first place considering he was fully cloaked 20ft up on a rooftop in the dark in the middle of a raging blizzard.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 27, 2016, 11:01:49 AMWolf blew the guy's head off for no reason. He wasn't there for human trophies, he didn't do anything with the body, and the guy never knew he was there, let alone threatened him. It was done purely for a cheap gore moment.
Yeah, this.
It's the same as that cop Wolf randomly skins and hangs from a tree - if he's there to clean shit up and stop the Xenomorphs spreading, a mission that clearly carries a large degree of urgency, given the creature's voracious ability to procreate, it makes no sense that he'd go out of his way to butcher people he comes across for no reason. That's not his job. He's not hunting, he's cleaning. He'd be focused solely on that.
The only logical explanation I can think of for the graveyard scene is that Wolf was trying to save what's-her-face and her daughter, but why would he give a shit about that?
He sure as shit doesn't try to save anyone else.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2016, 09:48:53 AM
He sure as shit doesn't try to save anyone else.
He also certainly didn't save the movie itself.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
QuoteThe only logical explanation I can think of for the graveyard scene is that Wolf was trying to save what's-her-face and her daughter, but why would he give a shit about that?
He would've shot Kelly had she picked the gun up.
In my opinion, Wolf killed the guy with the gun because he MAY have been a threat. Perhaps he had no way of getting around without being seen and assumed the human would resort to violence so... He resorted to sneaky violence first.
I didn't mind AvP:R too much, it was silly and overly gory in a pointless fashion but eh... I have to admit, I often mix scenes of it up in my head with the Resident Evil movie by mistake. XD
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 28, 2016, 11:21:03 PM
In my opinion, Wolf killed the guy with the gun because he MAY have been a threat. Perhaps he had no way of getting around without being seen and assumed the human would resort to violence so... He resorted to sneaky violence first.
His cloak works just fine.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2016, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 28, 2016, 11:21:03 PM
In my opinion, Wolf killed the guy with the gun because he MAY have been a threat. Perhaps he had no way of getting around without being seen and assumed the human would resort to violence so... He resorted to sneaky violence first.
His cloak works just fine.
Skinning the guy has always bugged me more. Yeah I can stretch my imagination enough to think he had to kill him. But stringing him up after skinning him makes no sense whatsoever. It was misguided fan service by people who didn't have a clue what they were doing....
I hate this movie
Quote from: SiL on Nov 28, 2016, 11:31:18 PM
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 28, 2016, 11:21:03 PM
In my opinion, Wolf killed the guy with the gun because he MAY have been a threat. Perhaps he had no way of getting around without being seen and assumed the human would resort to violence so... He resorted to sneaky violence first.
His cloak works just fine.
It isn't infallible, a good secret agent Predator doesn't leave any margin for error...
Quote from: Novak 1334 on Nov 28, 2016, 11:38:01 PM
Skinning the guy has always bugged me more. Yeah I can stretch my imagination enough to think he had to kill him. But stringing him up after skinning him makes no sense whatsoever. It was misguided fan service by people who didn't have a clue what they were doing....
I hate this movie
...Except when he does. XD
"I travelled all the way to Earth on this bullshit assignment, may as well get a human skin wallet for my troubles while I'm at it!" :P
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 28, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
It isn't infallible, a good secret agent Predator doesn't leave any margin for error...
He went from being completely unnoticed to giving away his position by making a big light show out of blowing the guy's head off. Shooting the guy was the risk, not the other way around.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 29, 2016, 12:01:11 AM
Quote from: Kurai on Nov 28, 2016, 11:49:29 PM
It isn't infallible, a good secret agent Predator doesn't leave any margin for error...
He went from being completely unnoticed to giving away his position by making a big light show out of blowing the guy's head off. Shooting the guy was the risk, not the other way around.
Yeah, but witnesses with guns? That's the question. :P
I need to whip out my copy and watch the scene again.
I'm watching it on HBO right now. The lighting is just unforgivable. The pacing is all over the place.
I will say this though. The ideas for the Predator were really good.
It's definitely the worst of both movie franchises.
I'm not sure the pacing was that bad in AvP:R it's just the climax was so limp. It seemed a bit too easy for Dallas, Ricky, Kelly and Molly to getaway, the fight on the rooftop was extremely boring, and dropping the nuke on the unwitting townspeople was just as mean as chestbursting children and pregnant mothers. It also didn't help that the audience was ahead of the characters (same as Alien3 and AvP).
I'm not sure any Alien Predator fight has lived up to the first one in AvP. The Queen fight was meh, but did have a couple of shots that at least looked impressive. The sewer fight could've been great, but what there was, was all but lost in the murk and crappy editing. Unfortunately what should've been an appetiser for greater things with Grid vs. Celtic ended up being the pinnacle.
Setting these movies in present day is something I've always hated too. I can't blame that all on AVP-R, but I can blame it for being unwatchable due to lighting.
The film grows worse after each viewing. After watching it 3 times I can now confirm I'll never ever watch it again!
It was a teen movie! That has nothing to do with 2 badass space creatures. If this comes to earth only the special forces should be able to withstand some attacks. Well that and IS bomb cars offcourse...
Honestly I find the movie really entertaining. No doubt it's an atrocious film but I find some amusement in the schlock, teen horror film manner of all these random people who you don't know or care about getting offed in gruesome ways. Some random lackey of the bully getting headbitten through the eye, the bully himself getting his face melted off and two random stoners getting their heads blown off. It's beyond ridiculous it actually becomes entertaining.
I think if you were to edit the film to show only Wolf's perspective/scenes it'd be a lot more digestible, have far less running time and you wouldn't miss any of the human characters at all. True the film makes a mockery of the lethality of the Xenomorph but hey if there's one thing they get right in this film it's the Predator. I really do like seeing a Predator that spends most of his screentime engaged in combat, showing off how such a large hunter would move and all the weapons he has at his disposal.
There's a PSP game of the movie and from what I can recall the there's no human characters involved in the story, what little plot exists is told through text and it's 100x better than the movie. Wolf even lives at the end of it so you know I'd consider that a proper entry to the series moreso than Requiem.
I can appreciate what you are saying and it could live up to the reputation of being a bad movie worth watching - if you could clearly see what is going on in some scenes.
Sadly, it has just one too many steps over the line. This movie is just straight up garbage. The Asylum makes better shit than this.
[EDiT]
Just this one image alone from The Asylum's 'Megashark vs Mechashark' is BETTER than anything in 'AvP-R' - including the Predalien.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syfy.com.au%2Fsites%2Fsyfy.com.au%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fjuicebox_medium%2Fpublic%2Fmega.jpg%3Fitok%3DyCU0VmpD&hash=d1f62f6dabb27d743a76aa19ebb47cf8a6f049c5)
God, The Asylum makes some shit. Even so, a good portion of it is still better than Strauss Bros. abortion clinic leftovers.
-Windebieste.
Some of those Asylum films do well just because they are so awful. I really don't understand human beings...
I've watched a bunch and they are the worst films I've ever seen. They are so uninspired, it's offensive to call them films.
They're often fun. Dumb fun.
You know I was just watching the film's trailers on the Blu-Ray.
And it's utterly hilarious just how much of the film they gave away. they litteraly showed everything in the film to the point you don't even actually have to watch it because you know what happens.
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 04, 2016, 09:41:48 AMGod, The Asylum makes some shit. Even so, a good portion of it is still better than Strauss Bros. abortion clinic leftovers.
While I f*cking loathe The Asylum and every single one of thew turds they have ever produced, I'll give them one grain of credit over
AVP:R - at least they
know they're making turds. They have no illusions and make no apologies.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 25, 2015, 04:04:31 PM
Absolutely....NOT!! :P
This isn't like Predator or The Thing where the film was initially reviewed mixed or bad before, but loved by fans only for critics to realize their mistake, its not a cult film either AVP-R is just plain old bad from the getgo, and still is, very few fans like film and for good reason. Its not wine, its water, it gets more staler with age. :laugh:
I like the Analogy; aged like Milk!
Quote from: Mr. Black on Jul 05, 2012, 03:29:14 AM
Amazing the movie has been out for over 4 years and still can feel the sting from it.
I'm quoting this, from another thread, as it was posted 4 years ago.
We are now on 8 years.
The way the movie has age... is just sad.
This movie was born with Progeria.
I have an ever so slight soft spot for AVPR simply because it felt like we were seeing a real Predator for the first time since 1990. I'm not talking about anything story related or the nonsensical actions Wolf displays throughout the film, I'm just talking about his look and his mannerisms. I detest ADI for the most part for their work on this series and I don't even view the Preds in AVP as of the same species because they felt so completely unrelated to what came before. But I concede Wolf's design was a massive improvement. Likewise the cloaking effect was more akin to the original and the original SFX for the wrist blades was great.
There are one or two moments in the film that could be lifted right out of Predator 1 and 2. The scene where he kills Ray with the wrist blades and the eye flash is superb. You don't get anything even close to that in the first AVP film. The idea of an overweight Scar leaping gracefully through the jungle with his rubber dreadlocks and plastic wrist blades hunting Arnie is hilarious.
no chance of improving, one of the worst movies and shameless cash grabs ever made
Quote from: Randomizer on Jan 26, 2016, 04:34:18 PM
Care to elaborate?
I wouldn't say it's improved over the years, but it's certainty grows on me every time I watch it. I like both Wolf and Chet. It's really their story. Of course we're stuck with characters that really have no business in the movie. They're so called arcs come to a complete stop once the Aliens and Predator finally take over the story. Or what little story there is. I make no excuses for the films flaws, but I don't really hate them either.
And as far as it being a shameless cash grab, I couldn't agree more. AvP-R should not exist, but it does. That's the best answer I can give on why I like the movie.
For me, I just watch the movie like any other creature feature. Just sit back, relax and watch the show.
I'll admit that it does have it flaws and everything.
Inversely... I think the first AVP might have improved with age. My two cents only.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 11, 2016, 08:40:28 PM
For me, I just watch the movie like any other creature feature. Just sit back, relax and watch the show.
I'll admit that it does have it flaws and everything.
Inversely... I think the first AVP might have improved with age. My two cents only.
Agree with both sentiments.
Someone should fanedit this and just remove all the scenes without the creatures because the movie is better without them.
Quote from: Scorpio on Dec 14, 2016, 06:06:41 PM
Someone should fanedit this and just remove all the scenes without the creatures because the movie is better without them.
Actually a fan did do this. They edited both movies around to where it was like watching a couple TV episodes where it focused on the Predators. I've never seen it though.
I read about it on fanedit.org.
You'd have to remove the scenes where the Predator kills people, and it'd go for about 10 minutes in total.
Here's a new one that sounds pretty cool.
https://ifdb.fanedit.org/avp-outbreak/ (https://ifdb.fanedit.org/avp-outbreak/)
Also, here's the one that I was referring too. Isn't this person that did this a member here? Uncanny Antman is his name.
https://ifdb.fanedit.org/predator-chronicles-volume-1/ (https://ifdb.fanedit.org/predator-chronicles-volume-1/)
Quote from: SM on Dec 15, 2016, 01:35:57 AM
You'd have to remove the scenes where the Predator kills people, and it'd go for about 10 minutes in total.
I think he kept the humans in there too.
Quote from: SM on Dec 15, 2016, 01:35:57 AM
You'd have to remove the scenes where the Predator kills people, and it'd go for about 10 minutes in total.
I would just remove all the character development. You could tell the Strauses didn't care about those scenes. The scenes like "Gimme the bat" or "Is it halloween?" are just awful. You could remove all of those scenes and it wouldn't hurt the movie.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 05, 2016, 12:41:40 PM
Quote from: windebieste on Dec 04, 2016, 09:41:48 AMGod, The Asylum makes some shit. Even so, a good portion of it is still better than Strauss Bros. abortion clinic leftovers.
While I f*cking loathe The Asylum and every single one of thew turds they have ever produced, I'll give them one grain of credit over AVP:R - at least they know they're making turds. They have no illusions and make no apologies.
I hate asylum as well, they are absolutely shameless in their rip offs and essentially they are outright deceiving people into buying their crap, granted you would have to be a bit naive to fall for their mockbusters but still, its not nice at all.
You are right though, they at least know they making crap and don't try selling it like some movies do. That said, I have no idea why there are some well known actors in these asylum films or even Ewe Boll films, if I was an actor, I would stay well away from anything that could taint my career.
SYFY is not much better either, they take some films that were good or mixed and make terrible sequels that sour the franchise like Lake Placid.
But with SYFY and Asylum, you know you are going to get a crap movie and may be pleasantly surprised when you get the rare slightly decent one but movies like these are hyped and thus the disappointment is even more crushing, granted that I wasn't hyped for this film due to AVP but at least AVP was somewhat decent and could have been good given the chance. AVPR is not redeemable and never will be, the only thing age and history will do is (as of currently) allow it to be remembered as the lowest point in the franchise
Quote from: Scorpio on Dec 15, 2016, 02:41:44 AM
Quote from: SM on Dec 15, 2016, 01:35:57 AM
You'd have to remove the scenes where the Predator kills people, and it'd go for about 10 minutes in total.
I would just remove all the character development. You could tell the Strauses didn't care about those scenes. The scenes like "Gimme the bat" or "Is it halloween?" are just awful. You could remove all of those scenes and it wouldn't hurt the movie.
Those scenes setup the relationship between Dallas and Ricky and Ricky and the high school bullies, which both have pay offs later on.
If I could actually See what was happening on the screen then I would have a slightly better opinion of the movie just for the scenes that show the Predator and Aliens fighting. I mean the only good parts of the movie are scenes that show the Aliens and the Predator. Everything else sucks about the movie.
And I know it's been mentioned before but Seriously The Darkness and lack of Lighting makes This Movie Unwatchable. You Can't See Anything.
Quote from: cheachea on Dec 27, 2016, 08:33:45 PM
If I could actually See what was happening on the screen then I would have a slightly better opinion of the movie just for the scenes that show the Predator and Aliens fighting. I mean the only good parts of the movie are scenes that show the Aliens and the Predator. Everything else sucks about the movie.
And I know it's been mentioned before but Seriously The Darkness and lack of Lighting makes This Movie Unwatchable. You Can't See Anything.
Be thankful you can't see anything lol This movie may drive you to suicide or disillusion you from the franchise.
The movie is terrible...as much of an 80s B movie as possible. The little town setting, teenagers in leading roles (!!!), teen bs thrown in, like the kid vs bullies and the bully's girlfriend - I mean, how did that crap ended up in an Alien movie? The aliens look terrible (whos idea was it to have buckteeth hillbilly aliens?), the acting is embarrassing and on and on and on
The only good things about it for me are
1. The idea of aliens in the sewers - now, the sewers can be creepy places, ask Stephen King (or C.H.U.D.s ;) ), and the though/idea of aliens in the dark sewers of some smaller city could be really terrifying.
2. The design of the predalien sans the dreadlocks and the flesh. The "face" of the predalien is actually a pretty good design, and it had some really good biomech designs and texture before they decided to slap muscles over them
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FPredalienconcept2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130818110004&hash=83fc8b7a0ae6a01d3fa62d2774d229685f60366d)
(https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/429/content_predalien-blog-7.jpg?1346908442)
The Idea of a Predalien is not a bad one, it just needs to be executed right, until there is a known use for the Predator quills or spines that people call dreadlocks, I think its best to omit them from Predalien design in future, the audiences are not blind, we don't need extra predator qualities to know its a predalien.
The new life-cycle was terrible though, I know it was to do with the fact that Chet was also a young queen but it was still stupid and should be scrapped.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 04:45:22 AM
The movie is terrible...as much of an 80s B movie as possible. The little town setting, teenagers in leading roles (!!!), teen bs thrown in, like the kid vs bullies and the bully's girlfriend - I mean, how did that crap ended up in an Alien movie? The aliens look terrible (whos idea was it to have buckteeth hillbilly aliens?), the acting is embarrassing and on and on and on
The only good things about it for me are
1. The idea of aliens in the sewers - now, the sewers can be creepy places, ask Stephen King (or C.H.U.D.s ;) ), and the though/idea of aliens in the dark sewers of some smaller city could be really terrifying.
2. The design of the predalien sans the dreadlocks and the flesh. The "face" of the predalien is actually a pretty good design, and it had some really good biomech designs and texture before they decided to slap muscles over them
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FPredalienconcept2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130818110004&hash=83fc8b7a0ae6a01d3fa62d2774d229685f60366d)
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/429/content_predalien-blog-7.jpg?1346908442
The design of the Predalien was horrible, and the face had a human skull instead of a Predator one
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Jan 08, 2017, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 04:45:22 AM
The movie is terrible...as much of an 80s B movie as possible. The little town setting, teenagers in leading roles (!!!), teen bs thrown in, like the kid vs bullies and the bully's girlfriend - I mean, how did that crap ended up in an Alien movie? The aliens look terrible (whos idea was it to have buckteeth hillbilly aliens?), the acting is embarrassing and on and on and on
The only good things about it for me are
1. The idea of aliens in the sewers - now, the sewers can be creepy places, ask Stephen King (or C.H.U.D.s ;) ), and the though/idea of aliens in the dark sewers of some smaller city could be really terrifying.
2. The design of the predalien sans the dreadlocks and the flesh. The "face" of the predalien is actually a pretty good design, and it had some really good biomech designs and texture before they decided to slap muscles over them
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FPredalienconcept2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130818110004&hash=83fc8b7a0ae6a01d3fa62d2774d229685f60366d)
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/429/content_predalien-blog-7.jpg?1346908442
The design of the Predalien was horrible, and the face had a human skull instead of a Predator one
Again, I sort of agree, the front of the head - the "face" I thought was actually good, the biomech designs, which were not seen in the final design as they were covered by generic muscles and flesh were also cool, but the rest of it was total crap- the very final design seen in the movie is total crap. As for the skull, it was actually predator's skull
(https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredaliensculptskulli.jpg)
I really loved that they put a Predator skull in the front. Out of all the homages and callbacks in that film, the one I genuinely liked as I'm a huge fan of the skull in the original suit.
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Jan 08, 2017, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 04:45:22 AM
The movie is terrible...as much of an 80s B movie as possible. The little town setting, teenagers in leading roles (!!!), teen bs thrown in, like the kid vs bullies and the bully's girlfriend - I mean, how did that crap ended up in an Alien movie? The aliens look terrible (whos idea was it to have buckteeth hillbilly aliens?), the acting is embarrassing and on and on and on
The only good things about it for me are
1. The idea of aliens in the sewers - now, the sewers can be creepy places, ask Stephen King (or C.H.U.D.s ;) ), and the though/idea of aliens in the dark sewers of some smaller city could be really terrifying.
2. The design of the predalien sans the dreadlocks and the flesh. The "face" of the predalien is actually a pretty good design, and it had some really good biomech designs and texture before they decided to slap muscles over them
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FPredalienconcept2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130818110004&hash=83fc8b7a0ae6a01d3fa62d2774d229685f60366d)
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/429/content_predalien-blog-7.jpg?1346908442
The design of the Predalien was horrible, and the face had a human skull instead of a Predator one
Again, I sort of agree, the front of the head - the "face" I thought was actually good, the biomech designs, which were not seen in the final design as they were covered by generic muscles and flesh were also cool, but the rest of it was total crap- the very final design seen in the movie is total crap. As for the skull, it was actually predator's skull
https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredaliensculptskulli.jpg
I do not recall the Yautja having normal teeth like that, Scar himself only had sharp teeth.
That skull looks like a Hybrid of a human and a yautja.
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Jan 10, 2017, 08:08:34 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 05:27:50 PM
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Jan 08, 2017, 04:28:06 PM
Quote from: StrangeShape on Jan 08, 2017, 04:45:22 AM
The movie is terrible...as much of an 80s B movie as possible. The little town setting, teenagers in leading roles (!!!), teen bs thrown in, like the kid vs bullies and the bully's girlfriend - I mean, how did that crap ended up in an Alien movie? The aliens look terrible (whos idea was it to have buckteeth hillbilly aliens?), the acting is embarrassing and on and on and on
The only good things about it for me are
1. The idea of aliens in the sewers - now, the sewers can be creepy places, ask Stephen King (or C.H.U.D.s ;) ), and the though/idea of aliens in the dark sewers of some smaller city could be really terrifying.
2. The design of the predalien sans the dreadlocks and the flesh. The "face" of the predalien is actually a pretty good design, and it had some really good biomech designs and texture before they decided to slap muscles over them
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette2.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fweyland-ycorporation%2Fimages%2Fd%2Fda%2FPredalienconcept2.jpg%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130818110004&hash=83fc8b7a0ae6a01d3fa62d2774d229685f60366d)
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/ckeditor_assets/pictures/429/content_predalien-blog-7.jpg?1346908442
The design of the Predalien was horrible, and the face had a human skull instead of a Predator one
Again, I sort of agree, the front of the head - the "face" I thought was actually good, the biomech designs, which were not seen in the final design as they were covered by generic muscles and flesh were also cool, but the rest of it was total crap- the very final design seen in the movie is total crap. As for the skull, it was actually predator's skull
https://monsterlegacy.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/avprpredaliensculptskulli.jpg
I do not recall the Yautja having normal teeth like that, Scar himself only had sharp teeth.
That skull looks like a Hybrid of a human and a yautja.
Aliens do usually have "normal" teeth as you put, the Runner from Alien 3 had typical teeth I believe.
I like the design of Chet. I wish they would've left the dreads off, but other than that I thought ADI did a good job.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 10, 2017, 08:50:48 PM
I like the design of Chet. I wish they would've left the dreads off, but other than that I thought ADI did a good job.
Not sure what to say about that really, on one hand, its
generally a good design that probably no one here could do better (unless there are some pro designers here) on the other hand, its not bio-mechanical and has too much predator in it. Its not really that Alien, and its proportions can look silly.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 10, 2017, 09:00:10 PM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 10, 2017, 08:50:48 PM
I like the design of Chet. I wish they would've left the dreads off, but other than that I thought ADI did a good job.
Not sure what to say about that really, on one hand, its generally a good design that probably no one here could do better (unless there are some pro designers here) on the other hand, its not bio-mechanical and has too much predator in it. Its not really that Alien, and its proportions can look silly.
I wish it had more bio-mechancial designs in it, but it is what is is. I think it originally it was going to until the producers wanted it to look more Predator. They wanted it to act like one too which was beyond stupid.
Actually, I heard a story that a kid saw the Predalien design and thought it should look more Predator and that's why they changed so much of it. What a miserable to production that must have been to work on.
I believe fox wanted it to cloak and use weapons as well.... :P Do they even know anything about Xenomorphs or indeed the very franchise they love to meddle in? :laugh:
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 10, 2017, 09:15:45 PM
I believe fox wanted it to cloak and use weapons as well.... :P Do they even know anything about Xenomorphs or indeed the very franchise they love to meddle in? :laugh:
Yep. lol That's why the Predalien was able to sneak up on the Predators without them knowing. Well that was the theory anyway. ::) :laugh:
It's awfulness hasn't attenuated over time. Maybe that could apply to AvP, but not Requiem. After all these years, I'm still amazed that if you were to watch the two AvPs back to back, you would be able to also watch the Aliens Director's Cut in one go. By the time AvP ends I believe Ferro and Spunkmeyer are in the middle of getting killed.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jan 10, 2017, 11:27:33 PM
It's awfulness hasn't attenuated over time. Maybe that could apply to AvP, but not Requiem. After all these years, I'm still amazed that if you were to watch the two AvPs back to back, you would be able to also watch the Aliens Director's Cut in one go. By the time AvP ends I believe Ferro and Spunkmeyer are in the middle of getting killed.
AVP is one hour and forty odd minutes long, in Aliens we would be by the second droship prep scene or around the time Ripley and Newt are attacked in medical.
Cruentus, my friend, I'm not including the end credits, which are actually unusually long on AvP anyway.
Almost in that case, you would miss their deaths, depending if you are taking 10 or 20 mins off due to credits, Hudson losing his nerve you would be around.
Alright, thank you.
AvP is about 85 minutes long with 10 minutes of credits. AvPR is 100 minutes, minus credits. Combined you've got 180, or three hours. You'd be well done by Aliens by that point.
Wow, 100 minutes without credits. I must have misremembered then.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 10, 2017, 09:15:45 PM
I believe fox wanted it to cloak and use weapons as well.... :P Do they even know anything about Xenomorphs or indeed the very franchise they love to meddle in? :laugh:
Then there's skinning the predators, challenging for a fight etc. It was 80% predator in design and behavior
Urgh don't remind me lol
I hate Fox so much. >:(
The length of AVP is a good thing in my opinion.
AVP should be a thrilling and breezy experience. Not long.
Not that thrilling or breezy either.
Quote from: SM on Jan 15, 2017, 09:42:28 PM
Not that thrilling or breezy either.
No argument there. But at the very least, if a film is shit, if it's over sooner I can get on with my life. Right?
You could also stop watching.
Quote from: SM on Jan 15, 2017, 10:12:57 PM
You could also stop watching.
Oh, right. I'll be sure to go back and remind my younger self to stop watching the shit show known as AvP. :)
See that you do.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 15, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
The length of AVP is a good thing in my opinion.
AVP should be a thrilling and breezy experience. Not long.
Nah. Two good hours. If we can get a good two and a half hour monster movie, we can have another one. Whether it has one species or two species. :)
It doesnt matter, the movie takes place on cold Antarctica, predators never go to cold places, rule of thumb since the beginning of Predator 1987, so meaning the movie already starts of false and fake, it will never change.
It's supposed to be a test. They hunt for pleasure in hot climates.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 06:49:39 PM
It's supposed to be a test. They hunt for pleasure in hot climates.
Exactly. I have to say that complaint never made any sense to me.
Except the flashback scenes don't show an Arctic setting. We know they're there to test themselves, but nothing about the weather is mentioned.
I get that it's an easy explanation, but it's one of those situations where we need an in-universe reason for why the writers had to put it on Earth. I wouldn't hate the decision as much if it took place on another world...It's the Earth thing that irks me.
Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.
It irks many people.
But "in-universe" there are no writers.
Does it irk you, SM?
Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.
Once upon a time. Stopped worrying about it a long time ago though.
I find it easier to just ignore AVP and especially AVPR. But notifications for this thread still seem to pop up from time to time, and I find myself in here.
Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.
Maybe the flash backs are of the same pyramid but from a time when the arctic had a different climate?
That's kind of what I assumed in my viewings, the Predators may prefer hot climates but this pyramid has now been covered in layers of snow and ice since the last time it was used. Since it's a cultural thing and they don't have a choice in doing it so they have to do it in the arctic.
Then why didnt they just filmed it at a Mayan temple, and that stupid ion cannon laser that cut through the ice didnt do the movie any good.
I'm guessing because you're average Mayan temple doesn't have moving walls.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 09:44:12 PM
I'm guessing because you're average Mayan temple doesn't have moving walls.
Nor do we have xenomorphs and queens stored in Antarctica.
Which is why they shot on sets and not on a real location. What point were you trying to make?
Quote from: SiL on Jan 19, 2017, 09:57:54 PM
Which is why they shot on sets and not on a real location. What point were you trying to make?
That ice doesnt compute with predators, pretty simple right?
You did understand that what i was trying to say it would make more sense with Mayan temples as for the climate,
as for the extra terrestrial mystery that could surround them, and that it didnt need to be filmed in a real Mayan temple,
but the concept would make more sense if they used Mayan temples.
Jungle, hot climate, temples, is the point coming across? or do you need to troll a little more?
What trolling?
They are attracted to heat. If they want an extra challenge they're going to somewhere they're not attracted to.
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:02:42 PM
and that it didnt need to be filmed in a real Mayan temple,
That's literally what you said:
QuoteThen why didnt they just filmed it at a Mayan temple,
QuoteJungle, hot climate, temples, is the point coming across? or do you need to troll a little more?
The temple was built when the content was still habitable. Which was millions of years before humans, but still, that's the logic they went with. It froze over later. They still use it. Presumably it's the last one left still functioning after all the others got blown up.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
What trolling?
They are attracted to heat. If they want an extra challenge they're going to somewhere they're not attracted to.
So there are two of you short named creatures :D didnt noticed that.
Why would a half naked reptile from outer space go to the freezing cold when in the previous movies he came to very hot places? to me its one of the bullshit concept things Paul WS Anderson came up with.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
What trolling?
They are attracted to heat. If they want an extra challenge they're going to somewhere they're not attracted to.
This.
Also, there was comic called
Predator: Cold War where they hunted in Russia.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 19, 2017, 10:10:08 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:02:42 PM
and that it didnt need to be filmed in a real Mayan temple,
That's literally what you said:
QuoteThen why didnt they just filmed it at a Mayan temple,
QuoteJungle, hot climate, temples, is the point coming across? or do you need to troll a little more?
The temple was built when the content was still habitable. Which was millions of years before humans, but still, that's the logic they went with. It froze over later. They still use it. Presumably it's the last one left still functioning after all the others got blown up.
Yes well i meant Mayan concept, as in it would make more sense imo.
and if that pyramid is still functional after milions of years by shifting Earth stones just like that, another credibility lost :)
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:13:58 PM
and if that pyramid is still functional after milions of years by shifting Earth stones just like that, another credibility lost :)
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The temple's not on a fault line.
In the movie, the continent was habitable in the times of humans, so it was only several thousand years. The reality is different, but it's a movie.
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
What trolling?
They are attracted to heat. If they want an extra challenge they're going to somewhere they're not attracted to.
So there are two of you short named creatures :D didnt noticed that.
Why would a half naked reptile from outer space go to the freezing cold when in the previous movies he came to very hot places? to me its one of the bullshit concept things Paul WS Anderson came up with.
It's been very simply explained a number of times now. Repeating it would be redundant.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 19, 2017, 10:15:31 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:13:58 PM
and if that pyramid is still functional after milions of years by shifting Earth stones just like that, another credibility lost :)
I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The temple's not on a fault line.
In the movie, the continent was habitable in the times of humans, so it was only several thousand years. The reality is different, but it's a movie.
That time changes our infrastructures, especially stone, but whatever the movie is garbage its not worth discussing about.
And you're doing a fine job of not discussing it. ;D
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:11:36 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:05:41 PM
What trolling?
They are attracted to heat. If they want an extra challenge they're going to somewhere they're not attracted to.
So there are two of you short named creatures :D didnt noticed that.
Why would a half naked reptile from outer space go to the freezing cold when in the previous movies he came to very hot places? to me its one of the bullshit concept things Paul WS Anderson came up with.
It's been very simply explained a number of times now. Repeating it would be redundant.
Never saw and heard of it, at least the predators could have had different armor for the harsh climate.
One thing i gotta give Anderson credit for is the satelite scene wich rotates and looked like a queen.
But really thats it, ok and the hot actress.
;)
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:21:33 PM
And you're doing a fine job of not discussing it. ;D
I have view on things as i grew up with, and i hate that they change it and add stuff simply from comics or just dont care and put it in a movie, i retcon predators on any ice age climate planet/enviroment in my mind, heck that xeno queen should have been there for milions of years.....
In Cold War the Predators would go back to their ship to keep warm. Check it out if you haven't read it. It's very good.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.idoc.co%2Ffiles%2Fdc3e3d825a09d594a9-35.jpg&hash=d1442bce7d74aa1ff7bf032e583986c50750b40b)
And the pyramid is hot.
And Predators would be pretty useless if they refused to go anywhere a little cold. The ending of Concrete Jungle was Deus Ex weather and cringey.
He didn't seem to have any drama returning to a freezing meatworks every couple of days in Predator 2. And pwning a bunch of soldiers for good measure.
Quote from: SiL on Jan 19, 2017, 10:26:53 PM
And the pyramid is hot.
And Predators would be pretty useless if they refused to go anywhere a little cold. The ending of Concrete Jungle was Deus Ex weather and cringey.
No Joe, ive never seen a crocodile walk to Antarctica for some challenge.
You just dont do that, its a cultural thing, and you got to respect the predator.
But watch the making of and you see Anderson only talks about alien(s) he doenst understand the predator movies because he lacks the testosterone to make such good muscle movies.
ive said it nicely.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:32:07 PM
He didn't seem to have any drama returning to a freezing meatworks every couple of days in Predator 2. And pwning a bunch of soldiers for good measure.
Pff come on, He knew he was gonna see Gary Busey in there, wouldnt you lower your standards for a moment?
I have.
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:32:39 PM
No Joe, ive never seen a crocodile walk to Antarctica for some challenge.
I don't see crocodiles flying spaceships and shooting laser cannons, either. Guess Predators are just f**king awful all the way down!
Quote from: SiL on Jan 19, 2017, 10:37:11 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:32:39 PM
No Joe, ive never seen a crocodile walk to Antarctica for some challenge.
I don't see crocodiles flying spaceships and shooting laser cannons, either. Guess Predators are just f**king awful all the way down!
They do in Dinoriders.
i assume you two short named guys like AVP?
Not especially. I'd prefer to criticise it for legitimate faults though.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Not especially. I'd prefer to criticise it for legitimate faults though.
Like what?
For me the pedestrian script.
For an idea he's had since high school, it felt very bland. Alien vs Predator was supposed to be exciting. When I saw it in theaters I was bored.
That's just wrong.
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Not especially. I'd prefer to criticise it for legitimate faults though.
Like what?
Dull characters, limp set up, generally mediocre script, less than 10 minutes of actual versing, ridiculously short Alien life cycle.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: Infected on Jan 19, 2017, 10:52:07 PM
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 10:50:21 PM
Not especially. I'd prefer to criticise it for legitimate faults though.
Like what?
Dull characters, limp set up, generally mediocre script, less than 10 minutes of actual versing, ridiculously short Alien life cycle.
The queen was there for a milion years, you call that a short life cycle?
We don't know how long the Queen was there. And I wasn't talking about her.
Quote from: SM on Jan 19, 2017, 11:01:29 PM
We don't know how long the Queen was there. And I wasn't talking about her.
I was trolling
Isn't the life cycle like ten minutes in AvP?
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 19, 2017, 10:55:49 PM
For me the pedestrian script.
For an idea he's had since high school, it felt very bland. Alien vs Predator was supposed to be exciting. When I saw it in theaters I was bored.
That's just wrong.
What if, all the AVP movies and Alien movies and Predator movies were everything you could ever wanted from such movies,
would it make you love the franchise more? or would you be bored with it by now because on that level it satisfied your needs.
The sad truth is the movies haven't turned out very good have they?
I've become pretty bored with both series because they're just doing to same old stuff. Of course these movies have similar motifs to them that are always going to be there. So there's no escaping that. I just wish they'd play around with the mythology more and take some chances, but it's got to be done right. Sequels like Resurrection added some new elements, but turned out to be a shoddy film.
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 19, 2017, 11:21:44 PM
The sad truth is the movies haven't turned out very good have they?
I've become pretty bored with both series because they're just doing to same old stuff. Of course these movies have similar motifs to them that are always going to be there. So there's no escaping that. I just wish they'd play around with the mythology more and take some chances, but it's got to be done right. Sequels like Resurrection added some new elements, but turned out to be a shoddy film.
Yes and no, their not good but every now and then i watch them, but i havent watched them for a long time now and ive grown older so if i watch them now, its possible i will never watch them again.
I have this with Star Wars, after years now there is Rogue One, and im satisfied that finally someone has filled my need with a real Star Wars feel, TFA was a huge let down for me, but i gave up, im content with Rogue One, i know what is coming especially from the story line im not gonna like it, as for the anthology movies i think there will be good ones, but im content with the franchise.
As with these series, i know its f**king hard to do a good new predator movie or alien movie, i know Ridley will deliver a good movie, but it wont satisfy my nor will Blomkamp.
Quote from: echobbase79 link=topic=52640.msg2171264#msg2171264
I've become pretty bored with both series because they're just doing to same old stuff. Of course these movies have similar motifs to them that are always going to be there. So there's no escaping that. I just wish they'd play around with the mythology more and take some chances, but it's got to be done right. Sequels like Resurrection added some new elements, but turned out to be a shoddy film.
This is also present in the comics and is what has stopped me from being a hardcore fan of the franchise.
I haven't read the books so I can't comment on those yet.
Well comics wise you have the original AVP series which is classic and does pretty much exactly what you'd want it to do with the two creatures.
Then you have gems like Labyrinth, and Destroying Angels. (Or one of my favorite AVP shorts, "Chained to Life and Death.") Sure, there's a lot of shit, but I think the comics offer some of the "change of pace" that the films need to start injection.
I never bought into Anderson's supposed "I've been planning this for years." nonsense. Because in reality it feels like he took a couple of ideas from the original AVP comic, dropped in his own blande go-nowhere uninspired characters, wrapped the entire thing in a layer f Von Daniken, and called it a day.
AvPR is exactly what you'd expect Hollywood to do with the idea. It's a straight up, shameless, classless slasher film. It's interestingly enough exactly what ALIEN and PREDATOR could have been if lesser directors had been involved.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 20, 2017, 09:37:30 PM
Well comics wise you have the original AVP series which is classic and does pretty much exactly what you'd want it to do with the two creatures.
Then you have gems like Labyrinth, and Destroying Angels. (Or one of my favorite AVP shorts, "Chained to Life and Death.") Sure, there's a lot of shit, but I think the comics offer some of the "change of pace" that the films need to start injection.
I never bought into Anderson's supposed "I've been planning this for years." nonsense. Because in reality it feels like he took a couple of ideas from the original AVP comic, dropped in his own blande go-nowhere uninspired characters, wrapped the entire thing in a layer f Von Daniken, and called it a day.
AvPR is exactly what you'd expect Hollywood to do with the idea. It's a straight up, shameless, classless slasher film. It's interestingly enough exactly what ALIEN and PREDATOR could have been if lesser directors had been involved.
Shane Salerno is also to blame here. He took Anderson's already mediocre script and turned it into a shitty one. And I'm sure everyone knows (or has read) about his abysmal first draft of
Requiem. Probably the worst script I've ever read.
That's actually the only unproduced Alien/Predator script I've never read. I must track it down one day.
It's in our downloads section. It's awesome. :laugh:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/downloads/
As awesome as Predriguez?
My review:
Quote from: SiL on Mar 11, 2013, 11:18:43 AM
SiL Reads the First Draft of AvP 2 and Writes His Thoughts
1-3:
Did the PredAlien just grow into an adult in real time? Is ... is that what we're seeing here? Predator body? Why not an Alien body?
At least it doesn't have dreadlocks.
Wait, why are the Predators armed already? They just got out of cryo-stasis. Like, literally, just now got out. Do they sleep with their weapons next to them? Are they that paranoid? I don't know if that's badass or retarded.
...okay, the PredAlien just ... the PredAlien just used a Predator spear.
Wow.
At least, uh ... at least the ship crashing makes more sense, cos rather than some dude stupidly shooting himself in the face more or less, it's a desperate shot that goes wide. I guess ... guess there's that.
PredAlien's dead opening of page 3, that's good, I guess.
Oh, wait – okay, the ship's crashed, but there's another Alien. I ... where did that come from? There's zero, I mean there's literally nothing even indicating there were more Aliens. At all.
4-10:
So we got Sam and Buddy the hunter and son, and they come across the crashed ship. I know ... look, I know the ship was cloaked, but they didn't hear it crash? At all? Okay. Well they walk right into it but it's invisible so it's not so stupid ... but they don't get hugged like in the movie. Yet. Okay.
QuoteSHERIFF EDDIE MORALES looks too young to be Sheriff but that's exactly what he is.
I think that should win an award for lamest character description in the history of forever. Then this happens. This is a thing that happens, in this script.
Deputy Joe: Homeless have set up again in the tunnel under Houston street.
Sheriff Morales: So go down there and clear them out.
Deputy Joe: By myself?
Sheriff Morales: You're a police officer.
Deputy Joe: I know.
Sheriff Morales: You have a gun.
Deputy Joe: I know.
Sheriff Morales: Take Ray with you.
Deputy Joe: (smiles; grateful) Thanks, Chief.
Natural dialogue just flows from Shane Salerno's fingers.
Then Dallas and Morales meet up cos Morales gives Dallas a lift and we get some exposition that Dallas was in jail for three years and the two dudes are buddies and I just honestly don't even care.
Ricky works at Dominoes Pizza and he has an earring and this makes him different. He also has an attitude.
Wow. This is even more asinine than in the movie. I did not think that was possible.
Molly and Tim meet Kelly at the airport, rather than wait for her to come home which ... y'know, that makes sense. It's kind of a douche move that they'd just wait for her to get her own sorry ass to the door.
Oh and Molly has the maturity of Newt but she's totally not Newt, guys, totally not. She likes military gadgets, not Barbies; Newt liked dolls so they are entirely different.
Also 10:
Okay so Buddy and Sam just got face-raped while an Alien watched. Guess they're ... kind'a ... kinky like that.
10-13:
Ricky gets his ass kicked at Jesse's place. This scene demonstrates he has attitude and I swear to God I'm starting to give the Brothers Strause kudos for their changes to the script.
Oh and Bernie the Bum's dog finds a severed arm.
...wait, where the f**k did that come from? Whose hand is that? Buddy's arm isn't eaten off by acid. The dog ... what, did the dog f**king kill someone? Why is this never addressed? Dude's dog is a f**king murderer!
14-17:
La-da-da, more character shit.
We actually find out what happened to Ricky and Dallas' parents, that's ... neat, I guess. And we get some tension between Kelly and Tim, which is cool, cos it means Tim – The only likeable person in any version of the film – gets more depth.
I continue, however, to not give a shit.
18-22:
Dallas and Ricky go into the sewers to find Ricky's keys and honestly the movie did a better job because Dallas and Ricky spend almost a whole page talking about the movie Alligator.
I am one of the twenty people who's seen the movie Alligator. It is too good to be mentioned in such a shit script. And it is a movie about an unrepentantly fake rubber Alligator eating people. Repeatedly. For ninety minutes.
The homeless haven't been face-raped (yet) but they make an appearance and are described as mole people.
I'm not even kidding, the script calls them mole people.
I am beginning to hate Shane Salerno.
Oh also Darcy, Buddy's wife, gets told shit is going down.
Except according to the script that apparently amounts to some dude with no relation to her husband or son having been viciously slaughtered by a dog.
I ... I guess she likes to keep up to date on that shit?
Dallas and Ricky run out of 80s pop-culture references and leave the sewer, almost get run over, and join a town meeting.
23-Most 25:
Oh look, a town meeting.
I am half expecting someone to stand up, point and shoot 'DEY TOOK YER JERB'.
We do get a mild sort of 'Well ah say we lookit any ex-cons we might be havin' round these parts'-hairy-eyeball-to-Dallas, though, which is equally lame.
Rest 25-26:
Buddy and Sam are cocooned in an egg-chamber. No eggs are ever mentioned in the entirety of this screenplay.
Oh, look, we get to see, 'for the first time', what a chest-burster does inside someone. I guess Salerno never watched Alien³.
Or Alien Resurrection.
Or the first AvP, which he f**king helped write.
The bursting is done without seeing Sam pop, which is honestly the first thing this script's done better than the movie (Besides, I guess, the pacing).
Hey, the Predator's arrived!
At the end of page 26!
With absolutely nothing resembling a build-up. I ... why is he here? Just chillin'? Gonna kill him some Texas oil tychoons but get caught up in an Alien invasion? I never thought I'd like the homeworld scene from the movie, but, well, here it is:
I'm glad they added it. Cos the alternative is horseshit.
27-Most 29:
Kelly tucks Molly in and it turns out Kelly and Tim are getting divorced.
I really, really don't care.
Bottom 29-33, Top 34:
Everyone goes out looking for Buddy and Sam during the day and the Predator watches them.
Hey, guys, remember how the Predators used to use voice mimicry?
It's back!
For like ten seconds!
And then Ray the policeman is murdered several kinds of dead by the Predator.
Considering the Predator doesn't know about the Aliens yet this actually makes sense.
Rest 34-36, Top 37:
Oh look a bunch of people talking in a Waffle House.
Alien gave me the stars. Aliens gave me a colony on a deserted rock. Alien³ a prison planet, Resurrection a military space vessel, Predator South America, Predator 2 LA, AvP a f**king alien temple underneath the Antarctica.
But, no, people talking in a Waffle House is cool.
Rest 37, Half 38:
Our Predator finally catches on shit is going down. He sets the ship to implode – apparently because it ... cloaks the explosion too.
And mutes it.
That ... makes sense.
Uh, also Aliens have heat ... signatures ...
I'm beginning to think that maybe Salerno has only seen the credit sequence of Alien. And nothing else.
Rest 38-41, Top 42:
Oh, some high school drama. While the Predator investigates the egg chamber and Morales finds the skinned Ray.
Yeah, intergalactic spaceships ... teenagers fighting in class ... Columbian drug lords ... getting suspended ... ancient pyramid ... a touching moment where it turns out Dallas went to jail for something Ricky did.
Natural progression flowing through the fingers of Shane Salerno, folks.
Looks like he watched the credits for Predator, too, cost he teacher's name is Thomas and I'm pretty sure someone's called 'John McTiernan' at some point. I ... I honestly thought they meant the director for a second.
Rest 42-Most 44:
Morales is talking to Doctor Lennon the mortician and the doctor insists bad shit is going down. No shit, there's a headless skinned body on the table.
Also Dale almost gets Molly killed by an Alien because the Alien is in the sewer and she reaches into it and I just I don't even
f**k you, Shane Salerno.
Rest 44-Top 47:
Jesus Christ it takes this long for Ricky and Jesse to agree to meet each other at the pool.
Rest 47-Top 48:
Next on Fox, Face-Huggers rape Hobos.
Rest 48-Most 49:
Just say it. Just say the f**king line.
'Mommy said there were no monsters, no real ones. But there are.'
Just say it and get it over with you miserable fu—-
Rest 49-Most 54:
The Predator is hunting an Alien through the power-plant! Sweet! This is –
Oh, wait, we're cutting between the school pool and Molly. I ... alright, yeah, sure.
The Alien just killed someone! Oh snap! Then –
Okay, yeah, the pool thing. Hey. Looks like Jesse lead Ricky into a trap. Bitch, I guess.
Molly's all, like, adorable and shit.
Okay, alright, so, the Alien's killed a dude, the Predator is following it out of the power plant towards the school where Ricky's getting his ass kicked.
Then he turns around and shoots the power plant and it explodes?
Remember that scene in Predator 2 where the Predator walks out of the penthouse and just starts shooting the building across the street?
Neither do I. But Salerno does, apparently.
The town goes dark and shit.
Rest 54-Most 58:
Power goes out in the pool, oh no!
Molly sees an Alien with her goggles, oh no!
Ricky is being drowned, oh no!
Molly, Tim and Kelly are talking about nightmares not being real, oh no!
An Alien is in the pool, oh no! Dale is ... wait, Dale is ripped apart? At the pool? f**king sweet.
And, hey, remember how lame that scene was in the movie where the monster leaps through the window and kills Tim? It drops down through the ceiling and the three manage to escape.
That ... that's pretty neat.
And then the Alien jut ... kills the neighbour. Okay, sure.
And hey, the two totally superfluous friends of Dale's are dragged into the roof by an Alien. This is ... getting ... better?
Oh, shit, fire at the power plant! Shit is getting real!
Rest 58-Most 60:
Holy shit the Alien and Predator fight in the school pool and ... I don't believe it. I don't. Believe it.
The Alien. Fights. Back.
And the ... holy shit, dudes, the acid hurts the Predator! They are actually fighting.
The noise draws Ricky, Dallas, Morales, Deputy Joe, Darcy and Jesse to the scene just as the Predator kills the Alien.
Morales and the deputy shoot the Predator so the Predator throws a spear through Deputy Joe and then shoots a hole in a wall and runs through it.
Holy f**kballs, that was singularly more cool than anything in either AvP film!
This script's ... redeemed itself! The last 60-odd pages of crap have been made totally justi--
Dallas: If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Sheriff Morales: We have to get to a phone.
f**k YOU, SHANE SALERNO, f**k YOU SO GOD-DAMNED MUCH.
Rest 60-63:
Tim, Kelly and Molly meet Karl in the cemetery. Karl is crazy.
A hobo gives birth to an Alien and the chest-burster f**king kills some hobos. Holy shit why was that not in the movie. Chest Bursters vs. Hobos, I would pay money for that shit.
And yeah Karl is crazy and it turns out Tim is a cable repair guy.
Shitting Christ everyone knows everyone in this town.
64-Most 68:
Morales calls in the National Guard. Yay.
The Predator kills Karl and chases Tim, Molly and Kelly through the graveyard shooting at them and missing repeatedly.
Rest 68-71:
So everyone makes their way to Super K-Mart to get guns.
Dallas: People are dying. We need guns.
From the movie is simply
Ricky: We need weapons.
But don't worry, Salerno doesn't let us off that easily.
Sheriff Morales: Police station's on the other end of town.
Jesse: The K-Mart's around the corner.
Ricky: K-Mart sells guns?
Jesse: K-Mart sells everything.
Someone paid money for this.
Oh. Hey. The Predator tries to use a bus on a crane to kill Molly, Kelly and Tim. I'm ... I'm not even going to explain how that makes sense.
It does.
But it's still stupid.
72-Half 79:
Just when you thought the Waffle House was getting too exciting, hold onto your asses, cos it's AvP in a Super K-Mart!
Our crew meets two store employees, SCOTTY and EARL!
Sheriff Morales is killed by an Alien! Dallas, his childhood friend, is so deeply touched by his death he takes Morale's walkie-talkie and says
Dallas: Let's go.
And when our heroes get caught between the Alien and the Predator in an aisle Ricky delivers the memorable insta-classic
Ricky: We are so f**ked.
And then the Aliens and the Predator are fighting and the potential for product placement you would. Not. Believe.
...and then when they're leaving the battle an Alien grabs Molly and for a second I think, maybe, she'll die.
But no. Darcy shoots the Alien's finger and the blood ... flies ... and hits Scotty in the face? Does ... what, does the blood f**king steer for him or something? How the shit does that work? Molly falls and lands on a Christmas decoration, and then the group gets out of the Super K-Mart.
And then the Aliens get shot at and run like sissies and Earl has his head blown off. No, not Earl! He ... I don't think he said anything? He dies, Pred follows the Aliens, humans leave.
Rest 79-Half 90:
Aliens are pouring out of the sewers cos there are dead hobos down there.
Our intrepid heroes flee the Super K-Mart and get called by the army and told to go to Gilliam Circle. There's ... there's a Gilliam Circle in Port Arthur, Texas, and Gunnison, Colorado?
Then Carrie, the waitress from the movie and Ray's wife, runs down the street screaming
Carrie: They're in the sewers!
Over and over.
And ... yeah, she just ... runs away down the street. Maybe she was also waving her arms in the air. Like she just don't care.
So Dallas opens a manhole and drops a flare and they see dead homeless people and Kelly immediately works out that the Aliens are like bees and are collecting people to breed in.
It ... damn, girl, Sherlock's got shit on you.
Then a dog comes up, and it's a sheep dog, and everyone's all 'Aww, it's a dog', and then it gets close to Molly and she pats it and it's really cute.
And then the dog's stomach f**king explodes and holy shit it's the funniest thing I've read all year.
So Kelly shoots it in the head and no-one gets blood on them and then this happens and my soul died a little.
Ricky: Army training?
Kelly: Mother.
Everyone nods.
Everyone nods cos that's what people f**king do in movies.
Then, wait, they hear a sound. Music. Oh snap, what is it, what is it?
Jesse: Eminem. "The Way I Am".
Dear Shane Salerno.
I hate you so much. So very ... very much.
Love
Everyone. Even your mother.
Kendra the token black chick who was talked about in behind the scenes stuff but never made it into the movie drives up in a pickup truck which has an Alien in the back.
... wait, in the back?
Yeah. Yeah, says in, alright.
The Alien's trying to claw into the compartment but can't ...
... sorry, right, Salerno's never seen Aliens. Or Resurrection. Right, sorry – the Alien can't get through the metal of the pickup truck so it cuts itself and bleeds on it.
Long story short everyone ever shoots the Alien and it dies.
Then this happens.
Kendra: We don't have any guns.
Dallas: We don't have a truck.
She nods. And they nod. And that's it. That's the deal.
This movie consists largely of two things; people nodding and Aliens tearing people in two.
Literally tearing people in two. It happens a lot.
Might'a should'a mentioned that earlier.
Kendra: Maybe you should drive. I don't have my license yet.
Dallas: You're doing fine.
Kendra: Cool.
Also shit dialogue. That ... man, is that common.
Rest 90-Half 94:
They pick up Drew the Pizza Delivery Boss and they find out the military lied to them about a path being cut off and they head to the airport to leave in a helicopter and this thing has only ten pages left so it better get good.
Rest 94-Most 103:
Oh, okay then.
The airport is all shrouded in fog. That's cool. And there are lots of Aliens. Sweet. Drew and Carrie get nicked, and then, lo and behold, the Predator arrives!
We see a Predator vs. 3 Aliens! Which would seem impressive had the movie not trivialised it!
Kelly and Molly make it to the helicopter while everyone else covers them.
Then the Predator dies.
On page 99.
Holy.
Shitballs.
The Aliens win.
Salerno you glorious f**king diamond, you let the Aliens win. You are forgiven of your sins. I rescind all previous negative comm—
QuoteIf the Predators won Antarctica, the aliens have won Texas.
f**k YOURSELF TO HELL AND CHOKE ON YOUR OWN DICK YOU MISERABLE PIECE OF SHIT THAT IS THE WORST LINE IN THE HISTORY OF SCREENPLAYS. AAAAAAARGH.
AND THEN THE HUMANS GO BACK FOR THE PREDATOR GUN AND DALLAS STARTS MOWING DOWN ALIENS AND JESSE IS KILLED BY AN ALIEN AND EVERYONE GETS INTO A HELICOPTER AND FLIES AWAY.
Rest 103-104:
...wait, what?
Where's the ending?
They get into the helicopter, check.
They fly up, check.
See an army plane, check.
See it drop a light, check.
See the light strike the ground, check.
White-out, check.
The end.
Wait, what?
That ... that's it? I went through all of that to just ... end? No resolution, nothing gained, no dénouement, just ... so long?
The f**k is this, a George A. Romero zombie movie?!
I went through all of that for that ending?!
f**k this noise, I'm going home.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 23, 2017, 11:32:55 AM
As awesome as Predriguez?
Better. Miles better. SiL's play-by-play should give you some idea of how truly amazing it is.
I started reading his breakdown but then decided I didn't want to spoil things for myself :)
That review is pure glory.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 23, 2017, 11:13:00 AM
That's actually the only unproduced Alien/Predator script I've never read. I must track it down one day.
Trust me you're not missing anything. It's so stock and lifeless writing.
Sure, but for the sake of completeness I'll read it.
If nothing else, if it's different enough from the finished product it deserves an article on Xenopedia :P
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 23, 2017, 07:13:48 PM
Sure, but for the sake of completeness I'll read it.
If nothing else, if it's different enough from the finished product it deserves an article on Xenopedia :P
It's good comedy. You'll get a lot of laughs that's for sure.
I might check it out as well...but I may have to get drunk first so that A, I can tolerate it and B, I can lose my memory of it.
If you're going to drink while reading the script, take a shot of your drink of choice every time someone gets ripped in half. ;)
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 25, 2017, 12:05:46 AM
If you're going to drink while reading the script, take a shot of your drink of choice every time someone gets ripped in half. ;)
Or nods. Everybody nods.
*nods*
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jan 25, 2017, 05:51:52 AM
Quote from: echobbase79 on Jan 25, 2017, 12:05:46 AM
If you're going to drink while reading the script, take a shot of your drink of choice every time someone gets ripped in half. ;)
Or nods. Everybody nods.
*nods*
That's even worse. Yeah, take a shot every times that shows up in the script.
I watched the blu ray the other night dubbed in french (so I wouldn't have to listen to the stupid dialogue). The main thing that bothered me besides the darkness is that the aliens looked like men in suits most of the time.
There are a few, very few, shots where the Aliens don't look that bad. On the other hand there are about twenty shots for every one of those where the Aliens look like the dog's balls.
The worst is on the roof. I also didn't like the one in the power plant. That one should've been CGI showing it jump around as Wolf was trying to shoot it. Also, is that same Alien that Wolf kills at the pool? In the script I remember that being the same one I believe. They did look good in the sewers though. Well, what you could see of them.
From what I could see of the digital ones, they looked alright.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 04, 2017, 02:34:56 AMOn the other hand there are about twenty shots for every one of those where the Aliens look like the dog's balls.
Might wanna rephrase that, "dog's bollocks" means good to us Brits :P
Dog's balls are a mark of quality in the UK?
Bollocks yes; balls not so much.
Not really, at least in my eyes. The movie is still entirely too dark to see anything. To this day, I still wouldn't have a clear idea of what the Pred-Alien looked like if it wasn't for the DVD/Blu-Ray box cover. And don't get me started on it's love of pregnant women...
Watched it again today after watching some videos on YouTube about the Wolf Predator. And I've gotta be honest, it's utter garbage. One cool shot with the predator holding two aliens. It had the same budget as Predators? Just utter garbage won't ever watch it again lol
It´s funny to remember just how hyped almost everybody was about this film, including myself of course. But the question that will always tangle around my mind will be what where the producers thinking as they were conceiving AVP:R. Perhaps they thought that AVP was to "A movie", at least as an attempt, and so it was okay to go with a B movie route. But man...
I remember everyone cracking stiffys over the still of the Alien and Predator. I think the Predator had the Alien by the throat.
I thought it looked shit, and it never got any better.
It was also funny when some people who saw it on release came and posted really positive reviews; then quietly changing their tune when the consensus was negative.
Everyone who saw the red band trailer was worried that they'd seen all the deaths but Colin kept saying they didn't. :laugh:
And then it turned out we did.
I never bothered trying to see this at the time because I was so convinced it was going to be worse than the previous one. Finally saw it a couple of years later when a mate showed it to me. Even the fact I was incredibly drunk didn't help.
Yeah I remember it was probably a couple of years before I saw it too. Same with the first one.
Finally coughed up and bought a blu-ray double pack a year before last.
I also remember Colin Straus resorting to childish "Well you're just a poopyhead!" retorts and one of the writers going online and saying "You should like the belly bursters because they're new."
haha, those were good times, does shit smells better the more time passes? nop, is the same for this movie
does anybody else believe that if The Predator and Alien: Covenant do well at the box office/critics we might have a chance of getting a GOOD AVP movie, now that cinematic universes are popular? i have the perfect idea but a ransomware took some of my notes
Quote from: SiL on Mar 12, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
I also remember Colin Straus resorting to childish "Well you're just a poopyhead!" retorts and one of the writers going online and saying "You should like the belly bursters because they're new."
Ah, the good old days.
I downloaded this movie from a torrent site at some point in 2008 and I still feel like I got ripped off.
Transmitted from Zeta Reticuli.
Its on tv right now and Im watching it. Every time i see it I find some new stupid thing. Literally gets worse with each veiwing. Why do i watch something I hate? 2 theories, the car crash theory. Or the fact that I love both franchises so much im hoping there is something positive to say about it. Not a single positive thing to say. Fox choosing this over a ridley scott directed, james cameron produced sequel is the single biggest injustice in the history of film
Watched the director's cut again recently...
I always wondered...why does the scout ship detach and head back to Earth when the mother ship has traveled all the way to Saturn?
Who knows!
They fixed one issue (the fact the ship originally looked completely different to the one at the end of the first film) but created a totally new one with that seemingly nonsensical course of events.
Maybe the predators forgot something...LOL
Maybe if they'd set it up so the mothership stayed in orbit around Earth (cloaked, presumably) and the little ship was some kind of escape pod the Predators fled to when the Predalien started slaughtering everybody... but that probably would've necessitated complete reshoots rather than just tweaking the CGI.
Mothership stays in outer solar system
Predalien gets on board another hunting vessel bound for Earth
I think that might work?
1 predalien slaughtering dozens, if not hundreds, of armed Predators aboard the mothership, including an Elder and a bunch of veterans, would be really silly IMO
Quote from: happypred on Apr 13, 2017, 02:45:10 AM
Mothership stays in outer solar system
Predalien gets on board another hunting vessel bound for Earth
I think that might work?
1 predalien slaughtering dozens, if not hundreds, of armed Predators aboard the mothership, including an Elder and a bunch of veterans, would be really silly IMO
I figure this was what was happening. Just another small hunting party staying behind.
Watching it right now for the laughs the film makes no sense and is full of plot holes, it has its moments though I just look at it as a fan film
As a Predator fan, I enjoyed Requiem more than the first movie...that said, both movies utterly waste their potential
Quote from: happypred on Apr 13, 2017, 02:45:10 AM
Mothership stays in outer solar system
Predalien gets on board another hunting vessel bound for Earth
I think that might work?
1 predalien slaughtering dozens, if not hundreds, of armed Predators aboard the mothership, including an Elder and a bunch of veterans, would be really silly IMO
If we go by logic it really wouldn't
The ship wasn't very open and was full of small hallways, and the Predalien was way stronger than the Predators, and then there is also the fact that one of the veteran made the ship crash, killing the preds that were still alive.
Doesn't make the movie any better tho
I still remember seeing this movie the day it came out. I had to get an older friend to take me because I was still too young to see it in theaters. What a mistake that was.
Quote from: SrSpinelli on Apr 19, 2017, 10:30:52 AM
Quote from: happypred on Apr 13, 2017, 02:45:10 AM
Mothership stays in outer solar system
Predalien gets on board another hunting vessel bound for Earth
I think that might work?
1 predalien slaughtering dozens, if not hundreds, of armed Predators aboard the mothership, including an Elder and a bunch of veterans, would be really silly IMO
If we go by logic it really wouldn't
The ship wasn't very open and was full of small hallways, and the Predalien was way stronger than the Predators
No, it really would be that silly...an Alien fanboy's wet dream perhaps, but idiotic nonetheless
One predalien, with the element of surprise (i.e. the preds are ignorant of its presence), taking out several predators in the cramped confines of a small vessel...that's OK. That's what we got in AvP-R clarified by the Directors' Cut
One predalien taking out hundreds of predators aboard a mothership...that would require massive amounts of plot-induced stupidity among the predators
Quotethe Predalien was way stronger than the Predators
Are you talking about pure brute strength? Not so sure about that...Wolf was physically weaker than the Predalien but he still put up a good fight when the two brawled. Regardless of brute strength, Wolf ended up ramming his blades through the Predalien's brain.
On a ship with hundreds of predator hunters (some of whom would be as formidable as Wolf), the Predalien would be f**ked.
Ramming blades through the PredAliens brain just required the blades to be sharp.
Considering every time Wolf got whacked he went flying, saying the PredAlien is stronger is a fair call.
*Snipped.
I expect our members to show respect to each other and act like adults. Consider that in future, even if you disagree with them. Hicks.
I just like dropping in this thread from time to time to say, "No, it has not."
I did just rewatch it an it's not any worse. Of course, it can't get any worse than it already was.
is like asking if a turd smells better with time
But they do.
Still love Wolf's design
(https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/e/eb/Wolf-Predator-predator-22942104-750-1000.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150321203734&path-prefix=protagonist)
Quote from: SM on Jun 05, 2017, 10:56:13 PM
But they do.
:D that must be some strange turds lol, huuray for my 401 comment with like, almost ten years being on this site even though i taked a long hiatus in the middle, best Alien/Predator/AVP community ever
A dried out dog poo doesn't smell as bad as a fresh wet one.
Quote from: SM on Jun 07, 2017, 08:49:31 PM
A dried out dog poo doesn't smell as bad as a fresh wet one.
But watching AVPR again is like stepping into that dried poo making it smell again
Nah it just crumbles to bits and doesn't matter as much as it used to.
Quote from: SM on Jun 07, 2017, 08:49:31 PM
A dried out dog poo doesn't smell as bad as a fresh wet one.
No but it can cause blindness :laugh:
I think SM's nailed it with the dog shit analogy. It really doesn't matter how bad the film is any more, the franchises survived and have moved on to greener pastures. :P
Well its apparently officially decanonized now (if it wasn't already from Prometheus) so the crap stain has been wiped :laugh:
"greener pastures"...green because of the manure?
I just watched it again today, actually. I find the film very frustrating. It's basically Predator running around the town from First Blood (they even go into the gun and ammo store for good measure). The final act is "Get to da choppa!" mixed with "We should nuke the sight from orbit!" And the lighting is atrocious. Most of the time I can't even see what's going on. I really don't care for it.
No. It's the worst film in the franchise IMO.
Controversial opinion: AVPR is my favorite alien film outside of the Ridley Scott and James Cameron installments. It's nothing but fan service from start to finish, and does not pretend to be anything else.
Actually to me it has improved with age. I don't want to say it's become a guilty pleasure, but if that's the term one would use so be it. AvPR actually has some more character development than the first AvP and as an American I really like the setting for a sci-fi movie but not for an alien or predator movie. In other words I can empathize with the characters having their small home town invaded and being American it is cool they chose this country. I liked the way the predator looked in the film. As everyone complains the lighting is almost insufferable. It was way more scary than AVP which is basically an action movie. The characters are going through more of a struggle in this one. I didn't mind the predalien but I didn't care for the belly bursters because they are too much straying away from how alien is supposed to be scary. I actually did enjoy the pool scene only because they don't know what's coming. That's what makes the movies scary is if the characters don't know what is happening.
I will say that Wolf was a true badass.
Which characters were developed?
Quote from: Huntsman on Jul 03, 2017, 06:16:05 AM
I will say that Wolf was a true badass.
He wasn't badass the aliens were just pussies.
The facehuggers developed into aliens.
Quote from: Huntsman on Jul 03, 2017, 06:16:05 AM
I will say that Wolf was a true badass.
Yeah, Wolf fought aliens
throughout the film; something three Predators couldn't do in the first one.
Yeah, but in the first AvP the Aliens were actually a threat.
Quote from: Alionic on Jul 04, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
The facehuggers developed into aliens.
Quote from: Huntsman on Jul 03, 2017, 06:16:05 AM
I will say that Wolf was a true badass.
Yeah, Wolf fought aliens throughout the film; something three Predators couldn't do in the first one.
He didn't fight Aliens, he fought a bunch of 4-foot-tall weak little pussies. If he fought the Aliens from the first AVP, he wouldn't last three seconds. All the Aleins in AVPR were made weak and stupid just to make Wolf look good. Wolf is a Mary Sue, pure and simple.
I prefer the original AVP:R, which was Critters.
The aliens and the predalien in AVPR were much more frightening than the aliens and the queen in AVP. You actually saw them get to kill people, for starters, unlike the first one.
If you dialled up the brightness and squinted, yeah.
Quote from: Alionic on Jul 04, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
Yeah, Wolf fought aliens throughout the film; something three Predators couldn't do in the first one.
Yeah. I have no problem believing an experienced Predator like Wolf could handle Aliens in that fashion.
Quote from: SM on Jul 05, 2017, 12:48:39 AM
If you dialled up the brightness and squinted, yeah.
Heh, yeah. The darkness levels were absurd, which is a shame.
If there is someone on here with a knowledge in this area, is this something that is even possible to fix? I mean if Fox wanted to release a tweaked version of the film, is it possible to adjust the brightness / contrast to make the film, um, visible? Or is it a flattened, fixed, permanent issue. I know James Cameron re-released his film Aliens with some color tweaks...
With the raw files it would be easy to fix, but wouldn't work brightening the finished film.
Didn't some people report the digital streaming version of the film had much better colour-grading and was a lot less dark? I remember reading that somewhere. If so, a better version already exists.
Also the footage in the trailers was a lot brighter.
There was a rip I watched not too long ago where the lighting was fine. I could even see the details of the title creatures in the sewer.
This double-pack version was released in 2014: https://www.amazon.com/Double-Feature-Alien-Predator-Aliens/dp/B00MW0CLK8/ref=sr_1_3?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1499293457&sr=1-3&keywords=aliens+vs+predator
Maybe 20th Fox discreetly fixed it on this one?
Quote from: Huntsman on Jul 05, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: Alionic on Jul 04, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
Yeah, Wolf fought aliens throughout the film; something three Predators couldn't do in the first one.
Yeah. I have no problem believing an experienced Predator like Wolf could handle Aliens in that fashion.
What fashion? throwing them around like rag dolls? Grabbing them by the throat while they do absolutely nothing? You don't need to be an experienced hunter when you're hunting weak and helpless bugs.
Nope, nope, and nope. AvPR in my opinion is a biased and bad sucessor to the already bad AvP. AvPR maybe has some boldness, like the bellybuster, but that's ridiculous. Wolf also somewhat a bad Pred, skinning a harmless officer and caused a breakdown that made everything worse. The Aliens except the Predalien were dumbed down, even more than the AvP Predators. The brightness is terrible, but by brighten it it was fine.
I would say yes but only to a small degree because both films always have and always will suck. This movie actually delivered the title premise with more action which is all I want in these movies and at least gave Preds two weapons I enjoy (laser mines and whip) whereas its predecessor only reinvented established weapons and barely had any fights between the titular species! Like I said though, still an awful movie and these additions in no way redeem it.
Quote from: quijju on Jul 07, 2017, 03:15:28 AM
I would say yes but only to a small degree because both films always have and always will suck. This movie actually delivered the title premise with more action which is all I want in these movies and at least gave Preds two weapons I enjoy (laser mines and whip) whereas its predecessor only reinvented established weapons and barely had any fights between the titular species! Like I said though, still an awful movie and these additions in no way redeem it.
Maybe more action, and the new weapons were cool. The only complaint is the second movie is where there are fight that not too epic or engaging. The Aliens looked dumb and like "Oh food, FOOD!" and mindlessly attack Wolf. The only epic battle is where Wolf fought the Predalien. The first had a fight, where Grid and Celtic fought. The fight still more epic than the sewer scene in my opinion.
Quote from: Alionic on Jul 04, 2017, 11:43:48 PM
The aliens and the predalien in AVPR were much more frightening than the aliens and the queen in AVP. You actually saw them get to kill people, for starters, unlike the first one.
Certainly disagree there, they were less frightening actually, all they did was poke their heads out from a corner and his, as well as occasionally act like a typical dumb slasher monster. And lets not get into the Predalien just standing around waiting for Wolf to remove his equipment..
Quote from: Jigsaw85 on Jul 05, 2017, 10:47:51 PM
Quote from: Huntsman on Jul 05, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Quote from: Alionic on Jul 04, 2017, 04:21:02 AM
Yeah, Wolf fought aliens throughout the film; something three Predators couldn't do in the first one.
Yeah. I have no problem believing an experienced Predator like Wolf could handle Aliens in that fashion.
What fashion? throwing them around like rag dolls? Grabbing them by the throat while they do absolutely nothing? You don't need to be an experienced hunter when you're hunting weak and helpless bugs.
You're right about Requiem being a crap movie. AVP looks like a masterpiece in comparison....and actually isn't that bad.
Quote from: NeoXenoPred on Jul 06, 2017, 01:00:00 AM
Nope, nope, and nope. AvPR in my opinion is a biased and bad sucessor to the already bad AvP. AvPR maybe has some boldness, like the bellybuster, but that's ridiculous. Wolf also somewhat a bad Pred, skinning a harmless officer and caused a breakdown that made everything worse. The Aliens except the Predalien were dumbed down, even more than the AvP Predators. The brightness is terrible, but by brighten it it was fine.
I think the bellyburster may have been the single most offensive moment in cinema history. I am exclusing snuff films and pornos of course. I am sure someone will come on here and point out something that takes the cake, but the bellyburster is right up there. A pregnant woman's belly bursting open with monsters? Are you kidding me? Gone too far. Just gratuitous.
Its the sort of thing that 13 year old boys would come up with. I get that they wanted to amp up the "horror" aspect and have a hard R rating... but as you say, the whole thing was just in poor taste.
Its strange, I find myself defending WS for trying to a make a decent movie with the first one yet I'm sure the Bros wanted to make a good movie too, yet I have very little sympathy for them (I guess because of these kind of gross decisions they made)
Fans complained about PG-13 and the lack of gore for AVP. They even added cgi gore to AVP to appease the fans. The only selling point for AVPR was gore. The fact they amped up the gore for this reason and fans still complain.
Because it didn't add anything to the film. Graphically killing children and pregnant women is pretty low.
It did add something we had never seen before in the series. There is that.
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 09, 2017, 09:41:17 AM
Fans complained about PG-13 and the lack of gore for AVP. They even added cgi gore to AVP to appease the fans. The only selling point for AVPR was gore. The fact they amped up the gore for this reason and fans still complain.
They over compensated though and sunk to graphically killing a child and pregnant women to earn an R rating. Alien and Aliens were 18 but they had a good balance when it came to gore without being excessive.
Better to over compensate than under compensate, though.
(I don't like seeing women and children killed either, but it's just special effects)
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 09, 2017, 11:02:00 AM
Better to over compensate than under compensate, though.
Not really, Die hard 4 managed to do well with less gore.
Personally I prefer films of R rated franchises to stick to their roots but given a decent and competent crew, it can pull off a pg 13 rating, however, over-compensating won't go well when the movie is relying on gore and using it as a selling point, as they would push aside story and logic just for more shots of graphic gore, which is typical of bad slashers. The skinned corpse springs to mind, it was completelu unnecessary and illogical for a "cleaner" to do.
Quote from: SM on Jul 09, 2017, 09:53:17 AM
Because it didn't add anything to the film. Graphically killing children and pregnant women is pretty low.
Yep. It was absolutely disgusting and went way too far. For all that's wrong with Requiem, this has to be the scene that stands out the most for me. Even if I liked the rest of the film, this one sequence would ruin it all. That's how much I hate it.
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 09, 2017, 11:02:00 AM
Better to over compensate than under compensate, though.
(I don't like seeing women and children killed either, but it's just special effects)
Pity they didn't show long loving shots of the PredAlien eating babies, eh?
There's a movie called Antropophagus that has baby eating. Then there's A Serbian Film. :o
But it's just special effects.
People getting offended over the child's chestbuster, the pregnant lady giving birth to three of them, or the PredAlien in the baby ward just makes the film much better IMO.
Quote from: Scorpio on Jul 10, 2017, 01:40:16 AM
There's a movie called Antropophagus that has baby eating. Then there's A Serbian Film. :o
But it's just special effects.
I don't want to watch A Serbian Movie either.
It's special effects representing a fictional reality. If the effects are indistinguishable from reality - you might as well be watching the real thing, and it's not something many would care to watch. If they just look like special effects, it gives away the fact it's a movie and winds up being a joke.
If you're a rational adult, you should be able to distinguish reality from fiction. I've seen real footage of people being killed and no special effect or acting can recreate that. They might sell you in the moment, but it's nowhere near as disturbing as the reality.
I don't doubt it.
However the low levels they stooped to in AvP:R were entirely unnecessary. We don't need to see that stuff to know it happened. How many children and pregnant women died at Hadley? We can arrive at that realisation on our own without seeing it. There's a scene of the PredAlien (may its name be forever cursed) looking at the babies in the maternity ward. The obvious horrifying payoff for this would be Dallas and co. or the Predator walking past and finding all the cribs empty. No blood. Instead we get idiocy like bellybursters.
I just saw it as a fun, schlocky scene, having a woman's pregnant belly explode. Too bad the movie was not played as a comedy, like Braindead aka Dead Alive. Maybe they were going for dark humour.
Maybe it's the fact I don't have kids, that I wasn't disturbed or offended by that scene. I can handle most scenes in movies. Except for the August Underground films which are just poorly made rubbish.
Assuming you don't hate women and it's not being played for laughs, what's fun or funny about pregnant woman's belly graphically exploding?
As I keep saying again and again, it's just special effects. It's just a movie.
Cop out.
I don't understand why someone would arc up over something so trivial. In a series known for depicting creatures exploding from people's chests, no less.
After having it explained ad nauseum, you know perfectly well.
I don't know if you're being serious or not, but if I have offended you with my comments, it was my mistake.
No offense taken.
But it has been made clear why people didn't like those scenes, so saying you don't understand is a little disingenuous.
It's realistic. I can understand, just only on a surface level.
I'm not actually offended by those scenes as I grew up watching horrors so I am a little desensitized but as SM said, they are unnecessary and as I said, its over compensating. It basically gore for gore's sake and done just to say "look we are R rated" It was hardly realistic as well, more over-the-top than anything and in same places, damaged the "story".
There many ways to make a movie R rated without being over the top, I was going to mention the children and families dead at Hadley before SM beat me to the punch and he is right, you don't need to see anything to realize the horror of what happened. Cameron once said and I might be paraphrasing because I cannot remember all of it exact. What was said was:"Gore doesn't scare people, it disgusts them"
There are many ways this movie could have been slightly improved by removing those unnecessary scenes. I say slightly because I don't think requiem can be fixed short of an entire overhaul.
Examples:
1:After the first facehugger attack don't show the kid being bursted. Cut away as soon as he starts convulsing. And if they must push the envelop, just show the body later on, perhaps only in predator vision.
2:Remove Predalien's crappy lifecyle, that automatically takes care of the pregnant women issue. Also since there was 4 facehuggers and four hugger victims, the movie could done with just five aliens and since they would presumably have more focus, they would need to perform better.
3:Remove unnecessary skinned corpse scene and gravyard death.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 10, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
2:Remove Predalien's crappy lifecyle, that automatically takes care of the pregnant women issue. Also since there was 4 facehuggers and four hugger victims, the movie could done with just five aliens and since they would presumably have more focus, they would need to perform better.
I really think that in the future films they do need to limit the number of creatures. One or two of each, not a whole load. Make each encounter impact, have the Alien and Predator injured after each clash, etc.
Yeah, when the focus is on a limited number of aliens, hell just one, they get more screen time and "perform" and survive better, mind you in both cases of there being a single Alien, it was up against unarmed folk so not dismissing the threat of the warriors in Aliens but a limited number would get better focus and be forced to be more of a threat because for the story's sake they would not be as expendable as a horde of a hundred aliens.
This is what (amongst other issues) damaged Covenant in a way, too many creatures and not enough focus on them, the Neomorphs seemed to be advertised extras and the Xenomorph itself would have seemed more formidable and a strong survivor if it was just the only one, namely the same one from Oram and simply survived to the end instead having "Lope's son" suddenly appearing, it would have avoided that controversial lore breaking Lope incident too.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 10, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
I'm not actually offended by those scenes as I grew up watching horrors so I am a little desensitized but as SM said, they are unnecessary and as I said, its over compensating. It basically gore for gore's sake and done just to say "look we are R rated" It was hardly realistic as well, more over-the-top than anything and in same places, damaged the "story".
There many ways to make a movie R rated without being over the top, I was going to mention the children and families dead at Hadley before SM beat me to the punch and he is right, you don't need to see anything to realize the horror of what happened. Cameron once said and I might be paraphrasing because I cannot remember all of it exact. What was said was:"Gore doesn't scare people, it disgusts them"
There are many ways this movie could have been slightly improved by removing those unnecessary scenes. I say slightly because I don't think requiem can be fixed short of an entire overhaul.
Examples:
1:After the first facehugger attack don't show the kid being bursted. Cut away as soon as he starts convulsing. And if they must push the envelop, just show the body later on, perhaps only in predator vision.
2:Remove Predalien's crappy lifecyle, that automatically takes care of the pregnant women issue. Also since there was 4 facehuggers and four hugger victims, the movie could done with just five aliens and since they would presumably have more focus, they would need to perform better.
3:Remove unnecessary skinned corpse scene and gravyard death.
I agree with you. Gore only bring disgust. Horror is effective when it was unseen, for example Alien. Gore only added as an additional recipe of horror and effective in R rated movie, only don't overuse it like AvP-R. Overrused gore doesn't make the movie a good horror, only unseen death or implied which bring the scares. The kid's death was unnecessary because like "Ooh, we're making a R rated movie with a child death in it! It's an innovation of horror,". I agree that they should cut it, because some fans might be unpleasant to view it alongside with the Bellybuster's scene.
First time I watched It I was 9 years old at the cinema and It was disgusting (I still remember how bad I feel for the blonde girl cutted) but now I like it. And I like how people reacts to they first time. My friend was like, It is a kid so he cant die. OMG they trap him. They are not going to show the chestbuster of the kid. They are f**king showing It!!! They are pregnant thats wrong.
She enjoy it but told me that she was shoked, movies are not that explicit usually
How on earth did you get into the cinema to watch it at nine years of age? The staff there must have been negligent big time. :laugh:
I think in Spain we dont have strong restrictions, only at the XXX cinemas. For example for Sausage party I remember a group of 5 kids alone, without parents, they were like 11 years old.
Also at 2007 I went with my 12 years old sister to watch Sweeney Todd, without our father and we didnt have any problem.
I was younger and dumber when the film came out. I'd just gotten out of highschool and I defended the movie pretty hard because the gore entertained me...
Now I fully admit it could have been written by a monkey.
If I could remove only one Alien/Predator film from history, it would be this one.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Jul 10, 2017, 12:27:27 PM
There are many ways this movie could have been slightly improved by removing those unnecessary scenes. I say slightly because I don't think requiem can be fixed short of an entire overhaul.
Examples:
1:After the first facehugger attack don't show the kid being bursted. Cut away as soon as he starts convulsing. And if they must push the envelop, just show the body later on, perhaps only in predator vision.
2:Remove Predalien's crappy lifecyle, that automatically takes care of the pregnant women issue. Also since there was 4 facehuggers and four hugger victims, the movie could done with just five aliens and since they would presumably have more focus, they would need to perform better.
Removing these would be a terrible idea.
The Predalien's lifecycle is more efficient and horrifying than the traditional Alien lifecycle. Plus, it was something new. And the pregnant lady graphically giving birth to triplet chestbursters has nothing on the Saw films. Same with the kid.
The Predalien lifecycle was stupid. And it was so obviously a desperate attempt to get edgy with the violence, yet it ended up just being disgusting and tasteless. It was the kinda of extreme rubbish a teenager would come up with. Being horrendous for no reason other than the sake of it.
Yup.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2017, 09:11:35 AM
The Predalien lifecycle was stupid. And it was so obviously a desperate attempt to get edgy with the violence, yet it ended up just being disgusting and tasteless. It was the kinda of extreme rubbish a teenager would come up with. Being horrendous for no reason other than the sake of it.
The Predalien lifecycle was completely in line with the tone and sexual subtext of the Alien series. Facehuggers impregnate their victims by raping them, as does the Predalien. I don't see what is so controversial about this?
Removing the ambulatory penis and in favour of shouting 'We're so hardcore we graphically kill children and pregnant women.'
Comes across as juvenile.
Quote from: Alionic on Aug 24, 2017, 09:39:13 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2017, 09:11:35 AM
The Predalien lifecycle was stupid. And it was so obviously a desperate attempt to get edgy with the violence, yet it ended up just being disgusting and tasteless. It was the kinda of extreme rubbish a teenager would come up with. Being horrendous for no reason other than the sake of it.
The Predalien lifecycle was completely in line with the tone and sexual subtext of the Alien series. Facehuggers impregnate their victims by raping them, as does the Predalien. I don't see what is so controversial about this?
No, its not in line at all. This new life-cycle comes out of nowhere and renders facehuggers obsolete. To clarify, the brothers Strausse say "young queens" do this, meaning it is not specific to Predaliens, so if all young queens can deposit four embryos per host then there is no point in facehuggers existing nor does the Queen need to lay eggs at all. Its just stupid period. One good thing about Covenant is that it renders Requiem non-canon.
Also subtext and gigerisms aside, facehuggers do not literally rape their host, as like the wasp, it just uses a host to incubate an embryo. Its not sexually reproducing. The whole process is meant to invoke such similarities of course, but its not literally doing it.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 25, 2017, 07:57:46 AM
Quote from: Alionic on Aug 24, 2017, 09:39:13 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Aug 24, 2017, 09:11:35 AM
The Predalien lifecycle was stupid. And it was so obviously a desperate attempt to get edgy with the violence, yet it ended up just being disgusting and tasteless. It was the kinda of extreme rubbish a teenager would come up with. Being horrendous for no reason other than the sake of it.
The Predalien lifecycle was completely in line with the tone and sexual subtext of the Alien series. Facehuggers impregnate their victims by raping them, as does the Predalien. I don't see what is so controversial about this?
One good thing about Covenant is that it renders Requiem non-canon.
AVP and AVP-R were never considered canon to begin with.
Actually they were or atleast did because as films, they were in the primary medium, and so for many it was considered canon.. even by fans who did not like them.
For me they are still canon
Canon maybe in their own universe, but certainly not the Alien or Predator universe.
No, they were canon to Alien and Predator, hence the then canonical fire and stone, life and death series which featured Aliens and predators. Then there was the Shadow and Rage trilogy which were canon novels.
Covenant and depending who you ask, Prometheus itself removed the avp films from the continuity.
I've never considered them canon, especially since they retconned the earlier movies.
Their canon status varies depends on who you ask and who's in charge of licensing.
If AVP is canon then Colonial Marines is too. Which is horseshit, because Hadley's Hope blew up in a giant explosion, yet in ACM it was still standing. Huh?
I'm not sure how the two are connected. ???
Quote from: SM on Aug 27, 2017, 09:20:56 AM
I'm not sure how the two are connected. ???
They aren't, but just pointing out that A:CM is considered canon by some too and how stupid that is.
Actually A;CM was only considered canon because the devs kept saying it all the time, the end result that was the game and reaction by fans has pretty much caused fox to ignore it, which is for the best.
It was canon because Fox said so.
Not long after it wasn't.
I'm sure they'd have had to have got permission from Fox before saying it was going to be considered canon.
I recall an interview years ago with Fox Chairman Tom Rothman declaring AVP and AVPR are canon to the Alien and Predator universe. A director may have control of a chapter, but the studio owns the universe and are suzerain above all. That said, with Rothman since heading off to Sony, I don't know if the new Fox Chairman maintains that declaration. On a more personal note, I am mainly interested in cinema canon only since I have no interest in gaming or comic books.
AvP is canon
Canon with the Predator series, not the Alien series.
The skull in Predator 2 confirms that AVP is canon to that series.
Quote from: Scorpio on Sep 17, 2017, 02:25:23 AM
Canon with the Predator series, not the Alien series.
And I'm okay with that.
Quote from: Biomechanoid on Sep 16, 2017, 09:00:23 PM
I recall an interview years ago with Fox Chairman Tom Rothman declaring AVP and AVPR are canon to the Alien and Predator universe. A director may have control of a chapter, but the studio owns the universe and are suzerain above all. That said, with Rothman since heading off to Sony, I don't know if the new Fox Chairman maintains that declaration. On a more personal note, I am mainly interested in cinema canon only since I have no interest in gaming or comic books.
Had to look that one up. New word for the day.
We might have to declare Predator 2 non-canon now, though. The Aliens haven't been made yet, unfortunately. :'(
Quote from: Scorpio on Sep 17, 2017, 02:25:23 AM
Canon with the Predator series, not the Alien series.
It's Monday morning here... my day (and indeed life) have been affected by this flawless explanation. It's genius. It just never occurred to me to think of it like this! Colour me blown away *lol*.
Quote from: Biomechanoid on Sep 16, 2017, 09:00:23 PMI recall an interview years ago with Fox Chairman Tom Rothman declaring AVP and AVPR are canon to the Alien and Predator universe.
That stance has apparently since changed.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Sep 18, 2017, 11:21:02 AM
That stance has apparently since changed.
No surprise there.
When it comes to canon, there's nothing truer
Cherry picking a universe of any film feature
Can be argued it's the privilege of the viewer
So I'll pick the world for my favorite creature
I'm in the camp that it all exists for the simple fact I have no inclination to lug around the burden of "pretending" I did not watch a Predator battle a Xenomorph, on screen. It happened. Good or bad, those two creatures had to exist in each other's fictional universe for that to happen. What has been seen cannot be unseen. There isn't a single Alien, Predator, or AVP film I have not voluntarily watched a replay. That alone confirms my avowal personally, making it futile for me to deny it.
If AvP is canon, that means AvP Requiem is canon, yeah?
Personally, I don't give a shit about what is or is not canon.
If it's good, it's good... If it's shit, it's shit.
Has AVP:R improved with age? No. I don't believe so.I am a huge predator fan. That being said, watching one predator go toe to toe with Aliens was great. Albeit super one sided and I also wish it was more of an even fight between the two species but I won't get into that here. The characters were poorly written and two dimensional, I didn't have a favorite one or even one to root for other than wolf. It was way too dark. Good lord was the film dark. Honestly, there are just too many flaws with this film to help it age well. With every rewatch I usually get hung up on one of the point smentioned above and it just takes me out of the film.
I was thinking about where the AVP films might fit canonically earlier today. I also believe it fits better with the predator franchise than the alien franchise. However, I don't consider the films cannon with either the Alien or Predator series but rather spin offs.
Quote from: GreybackElder on Sep 22, 2017, 02:26:23 AM
The characters were poorly written and two dimensional, I didn't have a favorite one or even one to root for other than wolf.
The film is told from Wolf's point of view.
It's like the Predator version of 300. It's a heroic tale predators tell their children.
How is it told from his point of view?
He spends most of the movie playing catch up.
Quote from: happypred on Sep 22, 2017, 02:06:16 AM
Personally, I don't give a shit about what is or is not canon.
It seems somewhat surreal that the AVP films' canonical legitimacy in the alien or predator fictional galaxies, is being debated at a website called AVPGalaxy.
Quote from: Biomechanoid on Sep 22, 2017, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: happypred on Sep 22, 2017, 02:06:16 AM
Personally, I don't give a shit about what is or is not canon.
It seems somewhat surreal that the AVP films' canonical legitimacy in the alien or predator fictional galaxies, is being debated at a website called AVPGalaxy.
Why? You can still enjoy the AvP comics and films and yet not consider them canon with the alien/predator series.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Sep 22, 2017, 05:25:37 PM
Why? You can still enjoy the AvP comics and films and yet not consider them canon with the alien/predator series.
Understood. I just find it amusing.
The website was actually founded as a resource for the games. :) Plus, AvP is just a nice title that'll encompass all the franchises.
I'm still reeling from the "it's canon in the Predator-verse but not the Xeno-verse" revelation.
Honestly - that blew my mind and totally works for me. It just ties everything up - not perfectly, but I can go with it. I don't know why - but I'm sold.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 25, 2017, 10:34:55 AM
The website was actually founded as a resource for the games. :) Plus, AvP is just a nice title that'll encompass all the franchises.
Not only that, AVPGalaxy is the household name of alien / predator fan sites, a keeper. I used to own AVPZone.com, but I let it expire and just merged that section into my broader scifimoviezone.
I'm not familiar with AvP Zone. *to Wayback!*
heh, that got me curious, I looked also at wayback. It shows archives in 2004 and 2010. I was actually the second owner of AVPZone.com, I don't know who owned it in 2004. The 2010 archive is showing my avpzone content, but embedded in my old avatarzone page which I also let expire and merged its contents into my broader scifimoviezone site....... weird.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 17, 2017, 07:38:33 PM
Quote from: Biomechanoid on Sep 16, 2017, 09:00:23 PM
I recall an interview years ago with Fox Chairman Tom Rothman declaring AVP and AVPR are canon to the Alien and Predator universe. A director may have control of a chapter, but the studio owns the universe and are suzerain above all. That said, with Rothman since heading off to Sony, I don't know if the new Fox Chairman maintains that declaration. On a more personal note, I am mainly interested in cinema canon only since I have no interest in gaming or comic books.
Had to look that one up. New word for the day.
We might have to declare Predator 2 non-canon now, though. The Aliens haven't been made yet, unfortunately. :'(
I think this word appeared in the new Alien Covenant Ofigins book too. Had to look it up..
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Sep 17, 2017, 07:38:33 PM
Quote from: Biomechanoid on Sep 16, 2017, 09:00:23 PM
I recall an interview years ago with Fox Chairman Tom Rothman declaring AVP and AVPR are canon to the Alien and Predator universe. A director may have control of a chapter, but the studio owns the universe and are suzerain above all. That said, with Rothman since heading off to Sony, I don't know if the new Fox Chairman maintains that declaration. On a more personal note, I am mainly interested in cinema canon only since I have no interest in gaming or comic books.
Had to look that one up. New word for the day.
We might have to declare Predator 2 non-canon now, though. The Aliens haven't been made yet, unfortunately. :'(
Alternately, Predator 2 could be used as evidence that David is not the original creator of the Alien. :)
Could be. New generally replaces old.
I was joking with that comment, though. Missed the appropriate smiley.
I think avp has improved with age, avpr tho.....nope!
No, the predator just invaded a Swiss artist's home and picked up the alien skull there. Total coincidence. ;-). Predator 2 is canon..
Quote from: BonesawT101 on Oct 01, 2017, 10:41:12 PM
I think avp has improved with age, avpr tho.....nope!
AVP:R is a blatant exploitation film.
Bonus points:
The small town horror setting it has necessitates required viewing before watching Stranger Things and IT.
I wouldn't say that it improved with age, but i always found it entertaining though being a terrible movie. I don't know why, but it cracks me up seeing a ridiculous gore fest in a little town like that. Wolf was cool and elegant but the aliens were canon fodder for him that's obvious.
There are a ton of things I didn't like about this movie, but it sort of gets a good pace going towards the end after the National Guard team is eliminated. It doesn't make the movie better, but there is just a glimpse of what the whole movie should've been like in the last 30 to 45 minutes or so of the film.
is there any blu ray or dvd where the lightning/colors are fixed ?
Before AVPR, never would I have predicted we would someday see Xenomorph vs. homeless person living a sewer.
Quote from: dallevalle on Oct 21, 2017, 08:07:05 PMis there any blu ray or dvd where the lightning/colors are fixed ?
The only talk I've ever heard of improved colour grading was with regards to a digital version of the film. I can't remember if it was the digital copy that comes with home video or the rental version, but I vaguely recall someone mentioning that one of those had a brighter picture.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 22, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
Quote from: dallevalle on Oct 21, 2017, 08:07:05 PMis there any blu ray or dvd where the lightning/colors are fixed ?
The only talk I've ever heard of improved colour grading was with regards to a digital version of the film. I can't remember if it was the digital copy that comes with home video or the rental version, but I vaguely recall someone mentioning that one of those had a brighter picture.
alright thanks for answering ! :)
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Oct 13, 2017, 02:44:27 PM
I wouldn't say that it improved with age, but i always found it entertaining though being a terrible movie.
Wolf was cool and elegant but the aliens were canon fodder for him that's obvious.
To me, Requiem has more rewatch value than, say, Alien 3...though the latter is superior filmmaking
In 20 years avpr will be rated higher than Alien³.
I seriously doubt that.
Alien 3, for all its flaws, does contain some genuine critical merit.
AVPR is a shitshow.
That's true.
But does this:
Quote from: happypred on Oct 24, 2017, 02:13:23 AM
To me, Requiem has more rewatch value than, say, Alien 3...though the latter is superior filmmaking
Actually have some merit? I mean AvPR is bad (I can't believe I spent so much time defending it)... really bad...
But... there's a part of me that accepts the word of HappyPred. Which makes feel a little bit queasy as AvPR really is shit... but I can't help but feel I'd watch it more than A3.
https://media.giphy.com/media/b93MGBJuQKoAo/200.gif
I wouldn't agree, but it's his opinion, so fair enough.
It was rabbit's assertion that Requiem will be remembered more fondly by history than Alien 3 that I really can't support.
I cant see AvPR ever being considered better than A3.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 24, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
AVPR is a shitshow.
False.
AVPR is an exploitation film. ;D
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 24, 2017, 02:58:05 PM
I wouldn't agree, but it's his opinion, so fair enough.
It was rabbit's assertion that Requiem will be remembered more fondly by history than Alien 3 that I really can't support.
I couldn't agree either. Both are messes in certain ways but Alien 3 has some genuine greatness in it and it's got a good story in it's own making that makes it of more interest, I think.
Quote from: Alionic on Oct 25, 2017, 11:24:26 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Oct 24, 2017, 10:04:18 AM
AVPR is a shitshow.
False. AVPR is an exploitation film. ;D
Can't we just agree on it being a shit exploitation film.
The difference between shit films and exploitation films is the latter knows they are shit films.
I was joking *lol*
I don't agree though... the Bros set out to make something really good. They honestly did... they failed utterly, but their hearts were in the right place. We know they wanted to do space marines until that was shot down.
I don't remember (and I stand to be corrected) that they've 'fessed up to making an exploitation flick (it's been a while since I've done commentary / features on the blu-ray).
One of the biggest hurdles was the "egg barfing." If they are going to go with "egg barfing," there is a faster way to the womb.
Quite.
And I think you've just found a way to make AvP:R worse. No mean feat. ;D
Alien 3 is definitely a better film than AvP Requiem. I just get more light-hearted entertainment out of Requiem.
I'm a big fan of Wolf's design (with his mask) and I appreciate that the Bros tried to portray him as an elite hunter, despite their flawed execution. Also...some scenes are unintentionally hilarious, and I get a kick out of those.
I find Predator 2 more re-watchable than Aliens...and of course, the latter has more critical merit.
Quote from: SM on Oct 26, 2017, 10:53:28 PM
Quite.
And I think you've just found a way to make AvP:R worse. No mean feat. ;D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mdy4mpnIpG1ro2d43.gif&hash=04f94e5ccd13f16f44ed2b73f62e28cc769840cc)
Suffice it to say, milk ages more gracefully than this movie.
I am very much looking forward to a 10th anniversary release at the end of the year...
:laugh:
I kid you not, if they brightened up the lighting in the movie to where I could actually see stuff on the screen I would at least enjoy the parts that had Wolf and action in them.
I'd probably buy a re-release with the "right" colour grading on it.
I think thew only way I'd ever consider buying a re-release is if they added some of the (allegedly quite plentiful) deleted scenes back in, or at least put them on the disc as a binus.
My curiosity in seeing that stuff would outweigh my hatred of the movie. Just.
They did an extended version with deleted scenes, didn't they?
They did. But by all accounts there was quite a lot more they filmed that's never been released. For instance, there are characters listed in the film's credits that aren't actually in the movie, so evidently some stuff must have been cut quite late.
Everyone please just let this movie die and rot in hell.....please
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 20, 2017, 01:20:21 PM
They did. But by all accounts there was quite a lot more they filmed that's never been released. For instance, there are characters listed in the film's credits that aren't actually in the movie, so evidently some stuff must have been cut quite late.
I don't think the scenes with the brother and sister ever surfaced.
Because those scenes are apparently awful. Embarassingly bad. Say what you will about the Strause Bros, but they made the best movie they could under the circumstances.
Don't know whose fault it is with the colour grading, though.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 20, 2017, 01:32:27 PM
I don't think the scenes with the brother and sister ever surfaced.
Yes, that's exactly the point he's making. If it did as part of a new release he'd consider getting it.
I meant those are the only ones I could really think of. I suppose we never saw the footage of the skinned Predator's restored, did we? I don't think I've actually seen the Unrated cut so I can't really remember.
That I know of, there's the stuff with the kids, the skinned Predators, the alternate ending and probably at least a couple of other scenes mentioned in the scripts, characters from which are still listed in the film's credits, implying they were filmed and considered for inclusion at some point. In their commentary, the Strauses also talk about filming some Predator POV shots that never made the movie. And I'd assume the original final act where Dallas' kid brother dies exists in some form, as that was supposedly changed after a test screening.
Nothing groundbreaking, but out of curiosity I'd be interested to see whatever they have. As it is, the film's easily the shortest in the franchise, and I remember reading somewhere that it was cut quite considerably for time shortly before release. (Because Fox realised they had a stinker on their hands and just wanted to maximise how many times it could be shown in a day?)
AvP is the shortest at 85 minutes of actual screen time (plus ten minutes of credits).
One of the latter drafts of the script had the PredAlien skin Ray the cop; it'd be interesting to see if they filmed that. There was also a scene of Molly playing by a sewer opening during the day and almost being grabbed by an Alien (scripted and filmed), and scenes at the high school during the day (scripted, not sure if filmed).
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2017, 12:47:57 PM...and scenes at the high school during the day (scripted, not sure if filmed).
One of the ghost characters in the credits is (according to the script) their teacher Mr. Thomas, so I'd imagine that must have been filmed for his name to get there.
Wasn't he the one who gave the survival of the fittest speech in the first draft? Was that in the shooting draft?
Yeah, that's him.
No idea if it was in the shooting draft but, again, if his name is in the credits I can't see it not being filmed.
Why must you make me go spelunking into that God-awful script?
In the August 21st 2006 draft, Mr Thomas still gives his Survival of the Fittest speech. This cuts between the classroom, and Wolf entering the sewers following the facehuggers. His role ends when Ricky beats up Dale after Dale taunts him about pizza delivery.
I do remember Crom saying that most of the stuff from the second day (story-wise; the day after Wolf shows up and kills Ray) was completely cut from the film; the school, Molly at the park, and a few other equally irrelevant scraps took place then.
Quote from: SiL on Nov 22, 2017, 10:08:30 AMWhy must you make me go spelunking into that God-awful script?
:laugh: No one has a gun to your head :P
Quote from: SiL on Nov 21, 2017, 12:47:57 PM
and scenes at the high school during the day (scripted, not sure if filmed).
So that was apparently filmed.
Best thing to come out of this review is thanks to SiL's spelunking that lead to that hysterical script play-by-play review.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 20, 2017, 09:42:22 AM
I'd probably buy a re-release with the "right" colour grading on it.
I sincerely hope they release a 4k HDR set of both AVP films. It would obviously help AVPR immensely, but I think the pyramid scenes (I think the current lighting is fine) in the first one would benefit from the details.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 21, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
That I know of, there's the stuff with the kids, the skinned Predators, the alternate ending and probably at least a couple of other scenes mentioned in the scripts, characters from which are still listed in the film's credits, implying they were filmed and considered for inclusion at some point. In their commentary, the Strauses also talk about filming some Predator POV shots that never made the movie. And I'd assume the original final act where Dallas' kid brother dies exists in some form, as that was supposedly changed after a test screening.
Wow, I never heard about these. Interesting.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 21, 2017, 09:49:08 AM
That I know of, there's the stuff with the kids, the skinned Predators, the alternate ending and probably at least a couple of other scenes mentioned in the scripts, characters from which are still listed in the film's credits, implying they were filmed and considered for inclusion at some point. In their commentary, the Strauses also talk about filming some Predator POV shots that never made the movie. And I'd assume the original final act where Dallas' kid brother dies exists in some form, as that was supposedly changed after a test screening.
Nothing groundbreaking, but out of curiosity I'd be interested to see whatever they have. As it is, the film's easily the shortest in the franchise, and I remember reading somewhere that it was cut quite considerably for time shortly before release. (Because Fox realised they had a stinker on their hands and just wanted to maximise how many times it could be shown in a day?)
An alternate ending to this film would be great!! But, Honestly I would just love a film where didn't have to adjust my TV everytime I watched it!
Quote from: GreybackElder on Dec 09, 2017, 10:43:48 PMAn alternate ending to this film would be great!!
It really wasn't much different - essentially, the special forces soldiers that find the survivors just machine gun them all instead of rescuing them. They decided it was too bleak.
Though I think the bleaker ending would make more sense... Sorta.
The movie feels like it thinks its being so f*cking clever with the whole "Government is evil" running "theme."
As mean spirited as the film was - that ending would've plumbed new depths.
I don't think they filmed it, either.
Absolutely despise AVPR.
Literally attempted to watch it again, in god knows how long, got 5 minutes in, remembered how dark everything was, got frustrated. Turned the t.v. off.
I feel that this film would benefit greatly from a directors cut to re edit certain scenes and fix the lighting issues, since the shots in the trailer looked great compared to what we got.
I would be interested in seeing a well edited version of the film, with significantly more lighting.
Got the Blu Ray two-pack the other day, time to see how bad this looks in hi def! :laugh:
Improved? No.
I STILL LOVE IT JUST AS MUCH AS WHEN IT WAS FIRST RELEASED <3 <3 <3
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.4plebs.org%2Fboards%2Ftv%2Fimage%2F1467%2F30%2F1467300907188.png&hash=120869544dec85a50bcebe114d439f602f43894e)
I still have the special edition dvd with the embossed Chet cover. Love it.
I love the beautiful designs of the Aliens, Predalien, and Wolf. Mainly the aliens, they are some of my favorites.
Lots of love.
L O V E
Once again I must thank SiL for his amazing "walkthrough" of the original Shane Salerno draft. Still makes me laugh.
I was actually re-reading it, and one thing that I found sad is... Yeah the strause brothers really did make some improvements. One area they seemed to really weaken though was the treatment of the aliens. The fights in the script come off as far more brutal and meaningful.
If they had kept the crash more mysterious (Not showing the events that transpired aboard for one.) And had only four aliens to really cause all the chaos, having Wolf track and hunt down the aliens with diminishing results (Taking more injuries, each fight getting more brutal and desperate. Maybe having a big fight where he's being dogged and stalked by two aliens at once...) I think the film would have been much better in the AVP arena. Alas, we needed to have ten thousand aliens and a "badass" "unstoppable" Predator.
Quote from: SizzyBubbles on Dec 29, 2017, 06:29:33 AM
Improved? No.
I STILL LOVE IT JUST AS MUCH AS WHEN IT WAS FIRST RELEASED <3 <3 <3
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tv/image/1467/30/1467300907188.png
I still have the special edition dvd with the embossed Chet cover. Love it.
I love the beautiful designs of the Aliens, Predalien, and Wolf. Mainly the aliens, they are some of my favorites.
Lots of love.
L O V E