The Datamine Thread

Started by PAS Spinelli, Jul 07, 2020, 09:03:03 PM

Author
The Datamine Thread (Read 38,823 times)

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#90
Join the Darkside....

Quote from: Mr.Turok on Aug 06, 2020, 07:04:27 PM
That logic seems like picking and choosing to me. Creators absolutely have the ability to lay more insight on what occurred in a novel, movie, ect. Sure there are outliners against this notion, aka J. K. Rowling, but mostly it had always given clarity to lore in where viewers get confused.

Illfonic and Titan have been doing exactly that. Not retconning the lore, but fixing it. Adding elements to make bad elements enjoyable.  I actually like Stargazer now!!

PAS Spinelli

PAS Spinelli

#91
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 06:34:14 PM
Uh, so The Predator isn't canon? Or Stargazer is, Sean Keyes is, hybrid Pred-Dogs are canon, but the movie itself isn't including AvP connections? When did this happen? Can you show us?
That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm specifically talking about the retcons, not the movie itself, again, the movie says something through exposition, this exposition talks about the predators as a species/society, implying it's the entire species and not a specific group. Again, I'm referring to the retcons and what the movie implies via dialogue, not the events in the movie itself.

QuoteFirst, even when you say ENTIRE in all caps, it still doesn't make it true. ;)  Second, when did they declare "entire species" in the movie? I must have missed that. I heard Traeger theorize, within 24 hours of Traeger wanting Casey to investigate if a human f*cked a Predator. It sounds like these hypothesis are still hypothesis, works in progress. Even Nimród won't deny the Super Predators dabble in hybridization.
Sure, they don't outright say "all the Predators are mutating themselves via DNA tampering", but the wording of the exposition still implies the entire species. The dialogue is there to inform the audience, just like the part where they say autism is the next step in evolution.
There's the possibly that this is a mistake, and the movie was planned to differentiate the Predators, but that could have been lost btw the cuts.

QuoteYet at the same time suggest something outside retconned certain moments inside the film including AvP:P
That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that the movie implies something while Shane says something else, and like with any piece of media, the movie has to be criticized with what it offers. Just like we judge a book based on what is in the book instead of what the author says about the book. Information like this only matters when presented within the franchise, not outside it.

With that said, AvP is being ignored by both Stalking Shadows and the tapes in PHG, while yes, the canon of the game can be questionable as we have already dead individuals Preds in 2025 and even 4 Dutches in one match, the tapes in question are canon and they record OWLF findings, and both book and game ignore the events in 2004. If we are to believe they are in the same Universe, isn't it weird that the nuking of a town would go unnoticed by the OWLF? What about the artifacts from AvP, why are the tapes not covering them too? Unless the AvP easter eggs in The Predator are meant to be Stargazer findings from before they took over (Which tbf, could be really cool), their canon status is questionable.

It's worth noting how the description for Stalking Shadows says it's meant to link the continuity, from Predator 2 to Hunting Grounds, but it doesn't make any reference to AvP, which again, if they were canon, for sure Stalking Shadows or the tapes would mention the military nuking a town because of an otherworldly infestation, it was something within the OWLF's area afterall.

Kradan

Kradan

#92
Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 06, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Oh boy here we go again with the Canon...


Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#93
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Aug 06, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 06:34:14 PM
Uh, so The Predator isn't canon? Or Stargazer is, Sean Keyes is, hybrid Pred-Dogs are canon, but the movie itself isn't including AvP connections? When did this happen? Can you show us?
That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm specifically talking about the retcons, not the movie itself, again, the movie says something through exposition, this exposition talks about the predators as a species/society, implying it's the entire species and not a specific group. Again, I'm referring to the retcons and what the movie implies via dialogue, not the events in the movie itself.

QuoteFirst, even when you say ENTIRE in all caps, it still doesn't make it true. ;)  Second, when did they declare "entire species" in the movie? I must have missed that. I heard Traeger theorize, within 24 hours of Traeger wanting Casey to investigate if a human f*cked a Predator. It sounds like these hypothesis are still hypothesis, works in progress. Even Nimród won't deny the Super Predators dabble in hybridization.
Sure, they don't outright say "all the Predators are mutating themselves via DNA tampering", but the wording of the exposition still implies the entire species. The dialogue is there to inform the audience, just like the part where they say autism is the next step in evolution.
There's the possibly that this is a mistake, and the movie was planned to differentiate the Predators, but that could have been lost btw the cuts.

QuoteYet at the same time suggest something outside retconned certain moments inside the film including AvP:P
That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that the movie implies something while Shane says something else, and like with any piece of media, the movie has to be criticized with what it offers. Just like we judge a book based on what is in the book instead of what the author says about the book. Information like this only matters when presented within the franchise, not outside it.

With that said, AvP is being ignored by both Stalking Shadows and the tapes in PHG, while yes, the canon of the game can be questionable as we have already dead individuals Preds in 2025 and even 4 Dutches in one match, the tapes in question are canon and they record OWLF findings, and both book and game ignore the events in 2004. If we are to believe they are in the same Universe, isn't it weird that the nuking of a town would go unnoticed by the OWLF? What about the artifacts from AvP, why are the tapes not covering them too? Unless the AvP easter eggs in The Predator are meant to be Stargazer findings from before they took over (Which tbf, could be really cool), their canon status is questionable.

It's worth noting how the description for Stalking Shadows says it's meant to link the continuity, from Predator 2 to Hunting Grounds, but it doesn't make any reference to AvP, which again, if they were canon, for sure Stalking Shadows or the tapes would mention the military nuking a town because of an otherworldly infestation, it was something within the OWLF's area afterall.

Your original position was this "AvP is not canon, never was and hopefully never will be".

Now you've morphed into AvP was Predator canon, but PHG not mentioning AvP in either Peter Keyes OWLF Recordings or Dutch's tapes means it was retconned, all while Scar and the Shuriken has been found in the datamines? Where does your position go once these have been released?

If you need an explanation, OWLF Peter Keyes and Dutch may not been aware of what went down with the nuke and subsequent military and Yutani cover up. Nor Weyland's activities or how Stargazer obtained a spear and when. But the movies set the canon playground. The EU just simply plays within and around it depending on what licenses (Predator, AvP or both) the licensee has. Cheers! :)

Kradan

Kradan

#94
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
I actually like Stargazer now!!

Then what - you gonna tell me you don't mind Crabators? Sheesh

Voodoo Magic

Voodoo Magic

#95
Quote from: Kradan on Aug 06, 2020, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
I actually like Stargazer now!!

Then what - you gonna tell me you don't mind Crabators? Sheesh


PAS Spinelli

PAS Spinelli

#96
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 09:10:26 PM
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Aug 06, 2020, 08:12:02 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 06:34:14 PM
Uh, so The Predator isn't canon? Or Stargazer is, Sean Keyes is, hybrid Pred-Dogs are canon, but the movie itself isn't including AvP connections? When did this happen? Can you show us?
That's not what I'm saying at all, I'm specifically talking about the retcons, not the movie itself, again, the movie says something through exposition, this exposition talks about the predators as a species/society, implying it's the entire species and not a specific group. Again, I'm referring to the retcons and what the movie implies via dialogue, not the events in the movie itself.

QuoteFirst, even when you say ENTIRE in all caps, it still doesn't make it true. ;)  Second, when did they declare "entire species" in the movie? I must have missed that. I heard Traeger theorize, within 24 hours of Traeger wanting Casey to investigate if a human f*cked a Predator. It sounds like these hypothesis are still hypothesis, works in progress. Even Nimród won't deny the Super Predators dabble in hybridization.
Sure, they don't outright say "all the Predators are mutating themselves via DNA tampering", but the wording of the exposition still implies the entire species. The dialogue is there to inform the audience, just like the part where they say autism is the next step in evolution.
There's the possibly that this is a mistake, and the movie was planned to differentiate the Predators, but that could have been lost btw the cuts.

QuoteYet at the same time suggest something outside retconned certain moments inside the film including AvP:P
That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that the movie implies something while Shane says something else, and like with any piece of media, the movie has to be criticized with what it offers. Just like we judge a book based on what is in the book instead of what the author says about the book. Information like this only matters when presented within the franchise, not outside it.

With that said, AvP is being ignored by both Stalking Shadows and the tapes in PHG, while yes, the canon of the game can be questionable as we have already dead individuals Preds in 2025 and even 4 Dutches in one match, the tapes in question are canon and they record OWLF findings, and both book and game ignore the events in 2004. If we are to believe they are in the same Universe, isn't it weird that the nuking of a town would go unnoticed by the OWLF? What about the artifacts from AvP, why are the tapes not covering them too? Unless the AvP easter eggs in The Predator are meant to be Stargazer findings from before they took over (Which tbf, could be really cool), their canon status is questionable.

It's worth noting how the description for Stalking Shadows says it's meant to link the continuity, from Predator 2 to Hunting Grounds, but it doesn't make any reference to AvP, which again, if they were canon, for sure Stalking Shadows or the tapes would mention the military nuking a town because of an otherworldly infestation, it was something within the OWLF's area afterall.

Your original position was this "AvP is not canon, never was and hopefully never will be".

Now you've morphed into AvP was Predator canon, but PHG not mentioning AvP in either Peter Keyes OWLF Recordings or Dutch's tapes means it was retconned, all while Scar and the Shuriken has been found in the datamines? Where does your position go once these have been released?

If you need an explanation, OWLF Peter Keyes and Dutch may not been aware of what went down with the nuke and subsequent military and Yutani cover up. Nor Weyland's activities or how Stargazer obtained a spear and when. But the movies set the canon playground. The EU just simply plays within and around it depending on what licenses (Predator, AvP or both) the licensee has. Cheers! :)
My original comment was a bit fallacious yes, AvP was canon during The Predator and is now being ignored by other confirmed canon media
Scar could be considered very much like City Hunter, he is there as non-canon DLC, City Hunter didn't come back from the dead did he? And the Shuriken was in The Predator too
If the military were to cover it up, wouldn't the OWLF still been made aware of it? Rn not only does the book and game ignore it, but including AvP in the current Predator lore only opens up more holes that would need to be fixed by even more stuff



Quote from: Kradan on Aug 06, 2020, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
I actually like Stargazer now!!

Then what - you gonna tell me you don't mind Crabators? Sheesh
God I hate the AvP pred's faces so much

Samhain13

Samhain13

#97
Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 06, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Oh boy here we go again with the Canon...

As I have foreseen.

Mr.Turok

Mr.Turok

#98
Quote from: RidgeTop on Aug 06, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Oh boy here we go again with the Canon...

To be fair, stories/series/franchise that have no core lore to anchor itself will soon loose at sea, its identity gone and become in-name-only brands. It can be anything but also nothing at all. Granted there are some like Godzilla, who can be a hero, anti-hero, anti-villein, and pure villein cuz it works with how Godzilla evolved over the years. An allegory for nuclear weapons and/or a monster that protects his territory.

Aliens and Predator can't work like that due to their brutal and bloody nature. You can bend the rules a bit for making a Predator in a more heroic light due to the fact they are brutal but also honorable sapient  race. Something similar was done when there was a Pred that killed Nazis but freed a child hostage. He didn't need to do that as the tied up human child has nothing to do with him, but he did it anyway. Seems like Preds do have a sense of altruism, interesting!  Can't do that with an Alien, a dangerous parasitic organism that kills anything and reproduce in a horrific manner which is an allegory for rape, that's not their nature.

But this is the data mine thread so maybe we should just quit while we're ahead.   

Tichinde

Tichinde

#99
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Aug 06, 2020, 04:34:27 PM
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Aug 06, 2020, 02:16:09 PM
I'm still not accepting of Yautja as a canonical aspect never mind a shared AVP universe.

You will accept it!!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/s3Bx59.gif

The more I see it the more I can tolerate it, and it fills my thoughts and I'm at the point now where it doesn't bother me

The Shuriken

The Shuriken

#100
So are xenomorphs going to be in this game or not? ???

Corporal Hicks

Corporal Hicks

#101
No-one knows either way at the minute. But I doubt it.

Tichinde

Tichinde

#102
If they were I would wager it would just be an Easter egg. Maybe like they did in Friday the 13th there would be a virtual cabin style thing with a xeno

Stitch

Stitch

#103
Quote from: The Shuriken on Aug 07, 2020, 01:06:59 PM
So are xenomorphs going to be in this game or not? ???
I hope not

Galactus123

Galactus123

#104
Quote from: The Shuriken on Aug 07, 2020, 01:06:59 PM
So are xenomorphs going to be in this game or not? ???
I hope not. This should stay as a Predator game.

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