Prometheus 2 set for March 4th 2016

Started by Gazz, Mar 24, 2014, 10:33:49 PM

Author
Prometheus 2 set for March 4th 2016 (Read 110,105 times)

SiL

SiL

#330
Quote from: SM on Apr 03, 2014, 09:37:59 PM
You've lost me here - what's the AP for if they're not terraforming?
As in WY didn't go out on its own to terraform the planet. Poorly worded.

SM

SM

#331
Oh right.

SiL

SiL

#332
And even if they did, that still wouldn't mean they owned the planet.

SM

SM

#333
Yeah.  The fact there's a body like the ECA would suggest countries or corporations just can't fly around claiming planets willy nilly.

Darth Vile

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
It's entirely relevant. You say it doesn't make sense because the crew have no way of dealing with these types of situation, the film clearly shows they do.
They don't... they all die save Ripley and a cat. That Ash facilitates this is irrelevant given that Kane is already 'infected' before Ash gets involved in anything... and that the captain himself isn't even willing to follow/adhere to any safety procedures. They are  the epitome of a 'Mickey Mouse' outfit.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
That's irrelevant as you're now trying to argue the crew should have had quarantine procedures specifically to deal with something they've never encountered before.
Isn't that a logical consideration given, you know, their 'contractual obligation' to investigate signs of alien life???

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
The chest-burster ran from everyone the second it was born. All they would've had to do is open the outer lock and let it run off the ship. Dallas was also armed.
That seems a rather big assumption given that this is an alien that has "acid for blood" and has big metal teeth. One would assume that such a "perfect organism" has the ability to aggressively defend itself... even an infant one. It's not like getting rid of a spider stuck in the bath.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Dallas was scared and worried for the safety of his crew. Ripley was going by the book and doing what they were supposed to. There's a difference between "capable" and "willing".
Well that just sounds like you're trying to justify an irrational action/decision on Dallas' part... which is fine, but at least be willing to apply that reasoning to other films and situations (which is really my entire point).

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
No, but they can be expected to listen to dialogue in the movie, wherein Dallas plainly states that Ash was replaced two days before they left Thedus with Ash. And that Ripley was swapped for the previous Warrant Officer.
Was that specific dialogue in the actual film?

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
They didn't, they already had the transmission.
Was that in the film? If they already had that information circa 6 months previously... then we're back to why send the Nostromo? Again, that the crew ended up dead and they, the company, didn't get their alien specimen further underlines what a hairbrained, nonsensical plan it was... if indeed there was ever a plan.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Same reason Burke did -- they didn't know what was there so they rerouted someone already going near. The Special Order just says to get a "specimen". It doesn't say of what.
And that explanation suffers from the same gap in logic... So the company actually get their hands on an 'alien transmission'... I repeat, an actual 'alien transmission'... so the company in all its wisdom, and with all its resources at hand, send ill equipped truckers to investigate just for the sake of brevity... even though they go to the trouble of supplanting an android onboard. Why not just send an android rather than an expendable crew?

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
Implies they're supplying the kit and have stakes in it, yes, implies they own the planet or the entire operation, no.
I think it implies much more than that... given everything we're shown on screen.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 03, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
And at no point is WY mentioned.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting? You said they weren't terraforming and VL refers to them as 'terraformers'...

SiL

SiL

#335
Quote from: Darth Vile on Apr 04, 2014, 10:10:06 AM
They don't...
They do. You're arguing there are no systems in place. The film plainly shows there are, and that Dallas' personal feelings and the Company itself work against these systems from being used, let alone effective.

QuoteIsn't that a logical consideration given, you know, their 'contractual obligation' to investigate signs of alien life???
Saying their quarantine procedure should take into account the arbitrary gestation period of an organism no-one knows anything about is illogical. 24 hours is usually a pretty good length of time to see if someone's going to get worse from something.

QuoteThat seems a rather big assumption given that this is an alien that has "acid for blood" and has big metal teeth. One would assume that such a "perfect organism" has the ability to aggressively defend itself... even an infant one. It's not like getting rid of a spider stuck in the bath.
And yet when I watch the movie, it runs away without even trying to fight anyone. They're not stupid.

QuoteWell that just sounds like you're trying to justify an irrational action/decision on Dallas' part... which is fine, but at least be willing to apply that reasoning to other films and situations (which is really my entire point).
Except Dallas and Milburn aren't at all similar. Context is important. Dallas spends the movie acting like a captain and makes a mistake (Which was wisely ignored by the person currently in charge of the ship) that he ends up paying for. The film justifies his actions. Prometheus doesn't justify Milburn's.

QuoteWas that specific dialogue in the actual film?
Yes. Immediately after Dallas agrees to let Ash keep the face hugger.

QuoteRipley: Did you ever ship out with Ash before?

Dallas: I went out five times with another science officer. They replaced him two days before we left Thedus with Ash. Hmm?

Ripley: I don't trust him.

Dallas: Well, I don't trust anybody.

That's from IMDb, which seems to get the line from the DC. The TC has Dallas pointing out to Ripley she was also recently transferred. It's right there in the film.

QuoteI'm not sure what you're suggesting? You said they weren't terraforming and VL refers to them as 'terraformers'...
I said WY isn't; I clarified above that I meant WY isn't the sole operator of the station. It's a joint operation, not a wholly corporate one.

SM

SM

#336
No version has Dallas' line about Ripley being rotated onto the Nostromo at Thedus, though it was scripted.  The line about Ash was in the TC but cut from the DC.

QuoteWas that in the film? If they already had that information circa 6 months previously... then we're back to why send the Nostromo? Again, that the crew ended up dead and they, the company, didn't get their alien specimen further underlines what a hairbrained, nonsensical plan it was... if indeed there was ever a plan.

It was indeed the plan and wasn't nonsensical in the slightest.  It made perfect financial sense to obtain a specimen of whatever the warning was about - if indeed there was still anything alive - via the next ship going near that area of space, and make sure you have some insurance on board with a special order to follow.  Much cheaper than mounting an expedition, that could amount to nothing.  Cameron repeated this in the form of Burke in Aliens.  Burke didn't want to make a security situation with the ECA just in case the ship didn't even exist.  Whoever issued SO 937 was doing the same thing - they were out for themselves, but weren't dumb enough to put themselves in harms way like Burke did.

SiL

SiL

#337
Quote from: SM on Apr 04, 2014, 10:45:10 AM
No version has Dallas' line about Ripley being rotated onto the Nostromo at Thedus, though it was scripted.  The line about Ash was in the TC but cut from the DC.
Oh for f**k's sake I've gotta stop doing this! Would've bet money I could remember hearing that line. I need to rewatch the actual film. I've been relying on the script, novel, and redux (Which doesn't have it either) too much.

Point conceded, but still. Film clearly states Ash was swapped out two days prior at Thedus.

SM

SM

#338
Indeed.

I think Riddles cut it from the DC because it was a red flag about Ash.

SiL

SiL

#339
I think Riddles cut it from the DC because it was two seconds he could easily cut around. There doesn't seem to be a lot of thinking going into what got taken out and what got put in.

Which you'd expect when someone was happy with what they did the first time.

SM

SM

#340
He mentions the red flag on one of his commentaries - so I'm just joining the dots.

SiL

SiL

#341
I'll give you that if you can explain why in the hell they changed the transmission SFX.

Darth Vile

Darth Vile

#342
Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
They do. You're arguing there are no systems in place. The film plainly shows there are, and that Dallas' personal feelings and the Company itself work against these systems from being used, let alone effective.
I wasn't "arguing there are no systems in place"??? I was stating that they were not equipped, in terms of processes and people, to go investigating alien life signs on remote worlds. I think the film, albeit indirectly, supports this in that all the crew end up dead. It's like arguing that the Titantic was equipped to deal with hitting an ice berg.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
Saying their quarantine procedure should take into account the arbitrary gestation period of an organism no-one knows anything about is illogical. 24 hours is usually a pretty good length of time to see if someone's going to get worse from something.
Again you seem to be purposely misquoting. I didn't state any such thing... I alluded to the notion that describing a locked door on an airlock as being a 'quarantine process' was an overly generous description... and that perhaps a ship expected to check out alien life (it was in their contract remember) should have had a more robust and mature process for dealing with any dangerous life forms or infections.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
And yet when I watch the movie, it runs away without even trying to fight anyone. They're not stupid.
It runs away of its own volition. Who knows what it would have done if cornered.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
Except Dallas and Milburn aren't at all similar. Context is important. Dallas spends the movie acting like a captain and makes a mistake (Which was wisely ignored by the person currently in charge of the ship) that he ends up paying for. The film justifies his actions. Prometheus doesn't justify Milburn's.
Completely disagree. Dallas is a shit captain.
1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
2) He puts an away team in place consisting of both the captain and 2nd officer.
3) He should have returned to the Nostromo as soon as he lost communications with the Nostromo when approaching the derelict... Never proceed without comms.
4) He contravenes the supposed 'quarantine processes' and puts the entire crew in jeopardy. Everyone dies because of him not taking command and not following procedure that a child could follow.
5) He sends himself, the most senior officer, into the vent alone (when it would have easily taken two... which would have been at least a little safer) to trap the alien. Dallas was an idiot...

I think you are actually conflating 'tone' with character behaviour. I think Dallas is at least equally as stupid, but his stupidity is presented within the cointext of a darker, much scary/serious film. The tone of Prometheus is much more directed to under 18's and is not really a 'horror' film - IMHO.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
Yes. Immediately after Dallas agrees to let Ash keep the face hugger.
I asked if it was "specific dialogue" from the film because I knew the part about Ripley was from the script...  and even with script exerts, I don't think there's anything to establish why the company would chose the option of planting Ash on a tug ship rather than sending a dedicated crew/ship.

Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 10:31:47 AM
I said WY isn't; I clarified above that I meant WY isn't the sole operator of the station. It's a joint operation, not a wholly corporate one.
The point stands... I don't care if Weyland owns 40% and Burger King the rest, someone (be it solely or in partnership) had dibs over the planets and its resources... one assumes someone couldn't just roll up and plant a flag when it had been terraformed... hence in the SE where Lydecker asks "if the claim will be honoured".

SM

SM

#343
Quote from: SiL on Apr 04, 2014, 11:23:18 AM
I'll give you that if you can explain why in the hell they changed the transmission SFX.

f**k knows.

QuoteI was stating that they were not equipped, in terms of processes and people, to go investigating alien life signs on remote worlds.

Yes they were.  They're contractually obliged to investigate transmissions indicating intelligent origin and have quarantine procedures.  Ash and Dallas just circumvented them.

Quote5) He sends himself, the most senior officer, into the vent alone (when it would have easily taken two... which would have been at least a little safer) to trap the alien. Dallas was an idiot...

That just makes him human.  An attempt at atonement.

QuoteI asked if it was "specific dialogue" from the film because I knew the part about Ripley was from the script...  and even with script exerts, I don't think there's anything to establish why the company would chose the option of planting Ash on a tug ship rather than sending a dedicated crew/ship.

Then you're simply more interested in your own opinions than the reality of the story.  Company obtains transmission (how may soon become clearer), deciphers it, reprogram the next ship going near that area of space to make it look like the ship picked it up by accident just in case there's anything of value, puts minder on board in the form of Ash.

SiL

SiL

#344
Quote from: Darth Vile on Apr 04, 2014, 01:50:28 PM
It runs away of its own volition. Who knows what it would have done if cornered.
They wouldn't corner it, they'd open the door.

Quote1) He accepts a mission to a hostile environment not even questioning why they should be taking part in it or asking himself if they are capable.
He's following his contractual obligation under threat of he and his entire crew forfeiting all of their money. Again, context.

Quote2) He puts an away team in place consisting of both the captain and 2nd officer.
Leaving the third officer and engineering staff aboard the ship to have it still flight capable.

QuoteEveryone dies because of him not taking command and not following procedure that a child could follow.
A child would want to get the icky space monster cut off their friend's face as quickly as possible so it didn't hurt them. As would most compassionate people.

QuoteI think you are actually conflating 'tone' with character behaviour. I think Dallas is at least equally as stupid, but his stupidity is presented within the cointext of a darker, much scary/serious film.
Everything he did can be explained in terms of character. He's consistent the whole way through: He cares about his crew to the point he f**ks up, he won't let them endanger themselves later, he goes alone into the vent to atone. On top of that, arguably the "dumbest" thing he did -- get Kane back on the ship -- is exactly what most people would try to do in that situation. If it hadn't been for Ash opening the door, Ripley would've done her job and kept them out.

QuoteThe point stands... I don't care if Weyland owns 40% and Burger King the rest, someone (be it solely or in partnership) had dibs over the planets and its resources... one assumes someone couldn't just roll up and plant a flag when it had been terraformed... hence in the SE where Lydecker asks "if the claim will be honoured".
To which the response is "yes", demonstrating how much it doesn't matter what you think when the film points out you're wrong.

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