With Xenomorphs almost always having the ability to smell your pheromones and thus making it almost impossible to hide from them, what do you think of being able to hide from them? I am surprised I have not seen more mention of this.
Proof imo that Fox doesn't care about canon, its just a label they slap on things to sell.
Also it doesn't matter because the majority of the EU is garbage.
Only the films of each individual series seem to matter.
That being "Predator" and "Alien" not any spin-offs.
We can only hope the new comics will set a good precedent for a new style of EU along with Alien: Isolation and ditch the corny shit of the past.
Newt managed to hide from them.
I think this is meant more in the context of the games where the Alien could see auras...sometimes even through walls.
Which if an Alien could do that now if you were in the same room you'd be automatically screwed.
Newt is definitely an element that reminds me not to fall into "allseeing perfect being" frenzy. Until the canon tells us they kept her as a pet. ;)
Since I take the movies as canon over everything then I always thought they saw much like humanity did due to Alien 3.
Quote from: Space Voyager on Apr 25, 2014, 04:11:18 AM
Newt is definitely an element that reminds me not to fall into "allseeing perfect being" frenzy. Until the canon tells us they kept her as a pet. ;)
wut
Ripley, at her first attempt trying to reach the Narcissus, was like 5 meters away from the alien (she hid behind the corner of the corridor)...and the alien didnt notice her at all.
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 25, 2014, 04:57:55 AM
Quote from: Space Voyager on Apr 25, 2014, 04:11:18 AM
Newt is definitely an element that reminds me not to fall into "allseeing perfect being" frenzy. Until the canon tells us they kept her as a pet. ;)
wut
Might make more sense if they kept her around as bait.
Quote from: Seegson on Apr 25, 2014, 08:39:12 AM
Ripley, at her first attempt trying to reach the Narcissus, was like 5 meters away from the alien (she hid behind the corner of the corridor)...and the alien didnt notice her at all.
It shot upright and turned around at a blinding speed - it certainly noticed something.
Quote from: Jegeren on Apr 25, 2014, 12:47:18 AM
With Xenomorphs almost always having the ability to smell your pheromones and thus making it almost impossible to hide from them, what do you think of being able to hide from them? I am surprised I have not seen more mention of this.
Considering that was only ever really shown in the games, I'm not fussed. As long as the game itself is good, I'm happy with it taking liberties against the other games.
In the first place, none of the movies explicitly described or showed how an Alien can perceive it's prey from out of direct sight. It was only in the literature and games that we have the glowing halos around living sentient beings, and they contradict themselves with some saying it's pheromones, the other saying telepathy, and a third saying both. Even the Predator movies show how it's tech can track it's prey.
........aside from those Alien POV shots in Alien 3.
Quote from: Seegson on Apr 25, 2014, 08:39:12 AM
Ripley, at her first attempt trying to reach the Narcissus, was like 5 meters away from the alien (she hid behind the corner of the corridor)...and the alien didnt notice her at all.
Yes it did. It turned and looked straight at her, then comes to check her out - only she's run off and left Jones.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 25, 2014, 02:14:23 AM
I think this is meant more in the context of the games where the Alien could see auras...sometimes even through walls.
Which if an Alien could do that now if you were in the same room you'd be automatically screwed.
That is one thing I'm loving about the direction they are taking with Isolation. Isolation is aiming to be a totally different beast than previous games in the Alien and AvP franchises and in order to succeed in that it has to be not afraid to ditch a whole bunch of past design and stuff built by the games which were mainly FPS games (such as the aura see through vision seen in the AvP games and Colonial Marines), and start from the ground up. Maybe aura see through vision would be a useful tool for a player playing as an alien in an FPS game, but we ain't in Kansas anymore, Isolation is striving to be a totally different beast. Not a game when aliens are just charging fodder and people playing as them can see others through walls, but a game when you're human only so you'll never know what it's like to be the alien, and though there is just one alien you have no means of fighting it so you can only hide, and this alien doesn't just charge in or run on a predictable script all the time or see through walls, it's actually using it's brain to figure you out while being passive and "frosty" at the same time while your tense and nervous self is praying that this thing doesn't find you. It's when it finally catches on to you and your patterns that he goes in for the kill and there's nothing you can do to stop the alien. So far from what has been seen they have succeeded in being their own new beast from the ground up by just ignoring past games and using the first Alien film heavily as their reference as well as leaving behind the FPS stuff in favour of genuine horror and survival.
I am pumped.
It doesn't matter, it's just a game.
Hopefully though there will be different "difficulty" settings where you can tune up or down the Alien's senses and AI to make it easier or harder.
"It's just a game" means nothing to me.
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 26, 2014, 11:03:32 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 25, 2014, 02:14:23 AM
I think this is meant more in the context of the games where the Alien could see auras...sometimes even through walls.
Which if an Alien could do that now if you were in the same room you'd be automatically screwed.
That is one thing I'm loving about the direction they are taking with Isolation. Isolation is aiming to be a totally different beast than previous games in the Alien and AvP franchises and in order to succeed in that it has to be not afraid to ditch a whole bunch of past design and stuff built by the games which were mainly FPS games (such as the aura see through vision seen in the AvP games and Colonial Marines), and start from the ground up. Maybe aura see through vision would be a useful tool for a player playing as an alien in an FPS game, but we ain't in Kansas anymore, Isolation is striving to be a totally different beast. Not a game when aliens are just charging fodder and people playing as them can see others through walls, but a game when you're human only so you'll never know what it's like to be the alien, and though there is just one alien you have no means of fighting it so you can only hide, and this alien doesn't just charge in or run on a predictable script all the time or see through walls, it's actually using it's brain to figure you out while being passive and "frosty" at the same time while your tense and nervous self is praying that this thing doesn't find you. It's when it finally catches on to you and your patterns that he goes in for the kill and there's nothing you can do to stop the alien. So far from what has been seen they have succeeded in being their own new beast from the ground up by just ignoring past games and using the first Alien film heavily as their reference as well as leaving behind the FPS stuff in favour of genuine horror and survival.
I am pumped.
Not sure what video you watched but everything you're describing not only has been done, but has been done before rather well on far smaller budgets and far less handholding on the payer's behalf. There's not an original anything in this presentation.
CA has absolutely nailed verisimilitude in appearance and sound, and the animations are definitely going the right direction despite inherent memory limitations in older platforms, but the gameplay and the story are what matters most when evaluating the products on its own merits.
I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that this game can nail the initial oh shit nuance for 12 hours. It's great that it's immersive enough to cause omg crawlies in the inital 10 minutes. I haven't seen anything that says I'll be playing this game a year from now for any particular reason. Both the marketing and the game look front loaded as hell.
Well, I never mentioned anything about length or replay value, that is something that I can't judge until I actually play it.
I know it's not "new" in general and has been done before, but it's a rather new approach to gaming within the Alien franchise and I've been speaking only within franchise.
I too value gameplay and story most but I can't help but be excited and "pumped", it's a nice change in tune from Colonial Marines.
Quote from: SM on Apr 25, 2014, 02:12:21 AM
Newt managed to hide from them.
Well, there's the foreshadowing comment, in the Special Edition, of how she goes where the other kids "can't fit", which seemed like a more plausible reason for how she escaped them. Not so much as a guesswork comment in dialogue regarding them not seeing her.
What's interesting is that the Aliens knew precisely where the Marines were holed up in, without any obvious clues to go on and immediately headed off there, once woken from hibernation. They've got
very long-range 3D hunting senses. Also probably how the one in the first film knew how to get Dallas in the vent system. It's also debatable whether the one which got on the dropship was randomly patrolling or was able to detect Spunkmeyer and Ferro camped out there (and, intriguingly, decided to nest inside, rather than immediately attack, like the one with Ripley did on the escape shuttle).
My biggest fear for the game is how can it be 10-12 hours long and still keep you interested.
My guess, there will be a lot of non-alien enemies and obstacles.
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 27, 2014, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 25, 2014, 02:12:21 AM
Newt managed to hide from them.
Well, there's the foreshadowing comment, in the Special Edition, of how she goes where the other kids "can't fit", which seemed like a more plausible reason for how she escaped them. Not so much as a guesswork comment in dialogue regarding them not seeing her.
What's interesting is that the Aliens knew precisely where the Marines were holed up in, without any obvious clues to go on and immediately headed off there, once woken from hibernation. They've got very long-range 3D hunting senses. Also probably how the one in the first film knew how to get Dallas in the vent system. It's also debatable whether the one which got on the dropship was randomly patrolling or was able to detect Spunkmeyer and Ferro camped out there (and, intriguingly, decided to nest inside, rather than immediately attack, like the one with Ripley did on the escape shuttle).
So on the one hand they can see the marines holed up in Ops like a 3D hologram, but when a little girl crawls into a vent too small for them, they suddenly can't see her anymore?
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2014, 04:00:34 AM
So on the one hand they can see the marines holed up in Ops like a 3D hologram, but when a little girl crawls into a vent too small for them, they suddenly can't see her anymore?
My point is, who said they can't? They just haven't been able or motivated to get her for whatever reason. Or decided to wait her out. The precedent's already there with Ripley/Narcissus and Spunkmeyer/dropship. It's not like they considered her in any way a threat. Even in the extended version of '
Alien', we see Jones' litterbox get thwacked to one side, but the thing doesn't actively try to tear it open. Newt might've been perceived in the same way.
So why weren't all the other kids at Hadley similarly left alone?
Targets of opportunity.
Even teh babbies?
I just find it faintly amusing that an Alien would let someone go - when they're completely capable of smashing or burning their way through solid metal.
A more believable scenario is that Newt nicks down a duct that is too small for a pursuing Alien, and while it looks for another way to get her, she manages to escape.
The Aliens might have enough cunning to know tearing down a facility that could serve as shelter for one little girl could be wasteful. Or maybe they just gave no f**ks that day.
I think from what we see in Alien and Alien3 they do have some method of "direct sight" they can't see you through walls if you're making very little noise for instance.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 27, 2014, 11:51:14 PM
The Aliens might have enough cunning to know tearing down a facility that could serve as shelter for one little girl could be wasteful. Or maybe they just gave no f**ks that day.
They don't have to tear everything down. But as we see in Aliens, Vasquez seals the door and they smash through it. They don't simply give up. If they went straight into the vent after the door was sealed they might've been able to make good their escape (nevermind why didn't the Aliens come in that way...). Newt is faster through the vents, so she'd be able to evade them better. And if tracking by smell would thrown off because her cubby hole was right under a big fan.
The 'giving no f**ks' thing would be just a case of "That Alien is PMSing so we can totally just stroll right past it and get away."
Quote from: SM on Apr 27, 2014, 04:00:34 AM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Apr 27, 2014, 01:27:28 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 25, 2014, 02:12:21 AM
Newt managed to hide from them.
Well, there's the foreshadowing comment, in the Special Edition, of how she goes where the other kids "can't fit", which seemed like a more plausible reason for how she escaped them. Not so much as a guesswork comment in dialogue regarding them not seeing her.
What's interesting is that the Aliens knew precisely where the Marines were holed up in, without any obvious clues to go on and immediately headed off there, once woken from hibernation. They've got very long-range 3D hunting senses. Also probably how the one in the first film knew how to get Dallas in the vent system. It's also debatable whether the one which got on the dropship was randomly patrolling or was able to detect Spunkmeyer and Ferro camped out there (and, intriguingly, decided to nest inside, rather than immediately attack, like the one with Ripley did on the escape shuttle).
So on the one hand they can see the marines holed up in Ops like a 3D hologram, but when a little girl crawls into a vent too small for them, they suddenly can't see her anymore?
What about facehuggers? The vents and airducts would certainly pose no issue to a facehugger... and the movies have shown eggs placed near hosts. Given the problem-solving behaviors already displayed in the movie (specific examples already brought up in this thread)... why didn't the xeno's start placing eggs in areas near where they knew Newt was but could not get to due to size issues? Not like the chestburster that popped out of Newt in that scenario would be incapable of making it's way back to the hive once it was born.
My point is, what if they never knew she was there in the first place.
Then she successfully hid from them.
QuoteThe vents and airducts would certainly pose no issue to a facehugger... and the movies have shown eggs placed near hosts.
That movie showed eggs in the hive rather than the colony.
Huggers weren't really used as a weapon till Resurrection.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 01:09:09 AM
My point is, what if they never knew she was there in the first place.
Thats possible... but how could she have survived without food or water? Unless she stayed in the vent system exclusively and survived on refuse, she would have had to come out of the vents at some point to scavange for supplies. She even referenced the xeno's sleep cycle when she tells Ripley they mostly come at night... mostly. She couldn't know this without making trips out of the vent system to look for supplies... which could have lead to close calls with the xeno's.
Yes, which would mean perhaps she knocked over something and woke one.
But due to having a direct vision cone like us, it didn't find her.
Makes way more sense that the seeing "aura" from anywhere crap.
QuoteThats possible... but how could she have survived without food or water?
She didn't. There's food and drink in her hiding spot.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 01:33:20 AM
Yes, which would mean perhaps she knocked over something and woke one.
But due to having a direct vision cone like us, it didn't find her.
Makes way more sense that the seeing "aura" from anywhere crap.
More sense than an Alien seeing like a human does even though it doesn't have eyes. wat
Do double Ys not have auras?
...oh my god.
THEY WERE ALL ROBOTS!!!!!
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 01:49:58 AM
QuoteThats possible... but how could she have survived without food or water?
She didn't. There's food and drink in her hiding spot.
So then... why did she leave her hiding spot in the vent system at all? Seems to me the safest course of action in her situation would be to sit tight and wait the infestation out. She would have assumed that at some point, the xeno's would have moved on in search of a new food source. Seems a bit careless of her to go jaunting about the complex if she had no good reason to do so.
And lest we forget, she wasn't in her hiding spot when she was found by Ripley and Co. She was out and about.
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 03:02:44 AM
Do double Ys not have auras?
...oh my god.
THEY WERE ALL ROBOTS!!!!!
Go start the prisoners were all robots thread for the lulz.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 28, 2014, 02:28:58 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 01:33:20 AM
Yes, which would mean perhaps she knocked over something and woke one.
But due to having a direct vision cone like us, it didn't find her.
Makes way more sense that the seeing "aura" from anywhere crap.
More sense than an Alien seeing like a human does even though it doesn't have eyes. wat
Why? It's "cone of vision" could easily be attributed to hearing.
Which would be just as improbable as an Alien using Auras to visually distinguish prey from another planet. Its an Alien. It is all improbable.
QuoteAnd lest we forget, she wasn't in her hiding spot when she was found by Ripley and Co. She was out and about.
Probably looking for more food and drink. Not like there's a vending machine in the monster maze.
QuoteWhy? It's "cone of vision" could easily be attributed to hearing.
That what now?
I think he might mean like echolocation.
But who can tell with teenagers these days.
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 28, 2014, 03:09:56 AM
Which would be just as improbable as an Alien using Auras to visually distinguish prey from another planet. Its an Alien. It is all improbable.
Only hearing is observable, vibrations and all that.
And "Auras" both disrupts A:I and the films, one makes way more sense to me and it ain't magical "Auras."
It could see you through vibrations over a certain distance, accounting for how Newt avoided them and how in Alien3 we are given both POV of it following people and the fact it turns to face them.
Echolocation?
Maybe that's what I'm describing but I've never heard of it before.
QuoteIt could see you through vibrations over a certain distance, accounting for how Newt avoided them and how in Alien3 we are given both POV of it following people and the fact it turns to face them.
It can see them as per the POV shots.
Echo location is how bats find prey.
Or the raptors in Pitch Black.
I would say something like that then yes, they seem to follow noise.
Resurrection says no.
Resurrection doesn't count, they're part human.
They could have eyes beneath the cowl in Resurrection from all we know.
Bullshit.
So you can stand on the other side of a window making faces at an Alien and it won't see you?
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 03:49:08 AM
Bullshit.
So you can stand on the other side of a window making faces at an Alien and it won't see you?
If you can stand in a locker shivering and looking directly at it and it won't find you, I don't see why not.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 04:08:16 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 03:49:08 AM
Bullshit.
So you can stand on the other side of a window making faces at an Alien and it won't see you?
If you can stand in a locker shivering and looking directly at it and it won't find you, I don't see why not.
If it doesn't look into the locker how could it see you looking at it? :laugh:
Quote from: Cal427eb on Apr 28, 2014, 04:11:44 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 04:08:16 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 03:49:08 AM
Bullshit.
So you can stand on the other side of a window making faces at an Alien and it won't see you?
If you can stand in a locker shivering and looking directly at it and it won't find you, I don't see why not.
If it doesn't look into the locker how could it see you looking at it? :laugh:
There are clear wide holes in the top half of the locker, and it looks directly at you but then walks away.
Look at the IGN "Is A:I scary?" video.
I've seen it. I don't recall it ever looking directly at the player. Could you screenshot it?
Not on my mobile, but it definitely does to my recollection.
I'll re-watch it later when I have the time then.
I'll try and screenshot it if I can get the computer after school.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 04:08:16 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 03:49:08 AM
Bullshit.
So you can stand on the other side of a window making faces at an Alien and it won't see you?
If you can stand in a locker shivering and looking directly at it and it won't find you, I don't see why not.
Glass = metal door?
It should, on the other hand, be able to smell you.
Not even glass.
Being able to fight back and kill the alien goes against the feel of the first film. There was nothing they could do to fight back except run and hide. The fact that this is the focus of the game shows that CA wasn't asleep when watching Alien.
They could fight back with flamethrowers - they just never had a proper opportunity.
OK, but what would that accomplish? Ash came clean with the crew after they beheaded him, telling Ripley and the others that they couldn't kill the alien. The point of the flame throwers was supposedly to drive the creature, under the half-hearted assumption that "most animals retreat from fire."
First, the alien is not "most animals." Second, they never had a chance to use the flamethrowers on it, once, because the creature was too lethal (with the exception of Parker and Lambert's death scene). Third, I don't think Ash really meant this, probably was fully aware of how dangerous/indestructible the creature was when he made this suggestion.
And let's not forget that this game takes place in outer space. You can't hurt the creature because its acid will bleed through the hull. And the use of flame throwers in an enclosed space is a terrible idea because the fire could damage the ship and just as easily kill you. The smoke could create toxic fumes and cause you to pass out (in most fire-based fatalities, the death is caused by smoke inhalation and asphyxiation, not the flames). They could also trap you and make it impossible for you to escape if the alien is unfased by the attack.
Speaking of flamers, everyone seems to forget Alien3 where the Dog Alien survived a molted metal bath. I never understood how flamers could be effective other than making sure to roast it for longer than 15 mins after that movie. A kit bashed flamer would be less than effective.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 11:59:15 AM
OK, but what would that accomplish?
Use the flamethrowers to drive the alien into a trap, said trap being to blow it out into space.
Quote from: gabgrave on Apr 28, 2014, 12:16:09 PM
Speaking of flamers, everyone seems to forget Alien3 where the Dog Alien survived a molted metal bath. I never understood how flamers could be effective other than making sure to roast it for longer than 15 mins after that movie. A kit bashed flamer would be less than effective.
They seemed to work in Aliens, although we never SAW it work, but Drake seemed to be frying them. Maybe his flamethrower was only keeping them away?
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 28, 2014, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 11:59:15 AM
OK, but what would that accomplish?
Use the flamethrowers to drive the alien into a trap, said trap being to blow it out into space.
Yeah, because that worked so well in the movie. : P
Napalm burns hotter than the melting point of lead.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 28, 2014, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 11:59:15 AM
OK, but what would that accomplish?
Use the flamethrowers to drive the alien into a trap, said trap being to blow it out into space.
Yeah, because that worked so well in the movie. : P
You have any better ideas?
Draw straws? : P
That's what I thought.
I was being serious. Drawing straws and getting the f**k off the ship is, sadly, probably our best option. : P
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: Crazy Rich on Apr 28, 2014, 12:45:09 PM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 28, 2014, 11:59:15 AM
OK, but what would that accomplish?
Use the flamethrowers to drive the alien into a trap, said trap being to blow it out into space.
Yeah, because that worked so well in the movie. : P
Which brings us back to 'they never had a proper opportunity'.
QuoteThe point of the flame throwers was supposedly to drive the creature, under the half-hearted assumption that "most animals retreat from fire."
An assumption that ultimately proved correct in the next flick. They're not to fond of molten lead, explosive tipped bullets, or nitrosyl chloride either.
Yeah, going strictly by the first film on it's own merits we don't actually know that those hand held units would have done jack or shit to the alien. Comparing it to the engines of the shuttle which were used to finally vanquish the big chap, or the use of a military-grade flame unit from decades later which may or may not have actually directly harmed the adults (given that we never actually see one being flamed) AND that the molten lead did *not* do much more than piss the alien off in number 3, AND given the fact that Ash was not really interested in helping the crew get rid of the alien in the first film.... I'd say "we don't know."
It doesn't matter whether the flamethrowers did anything or not - Aliens don't like them.
And the molten lead did teensy bit more than piss it off...
You're on a ship that burns, in an enclosed space. Why would you use a flamethrower? It's suicide.
Quote from: Jegeren on Apr 25, 2014, 12:47:18 AM
With Xenomorphs almost always having the ability to smell your pheromones and thus making it almost impossible to hide from them, what do you think of being able to hide from them? I am surprised I have not seen more mention of this.
really great idea imo :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
As far as I understand, in the final game, the creature will be able to sense your pheromones. When you take a step, it leaves and imprint that goes away over time. It's not quite the same thing as scent, I don't think; the creature will be able to detect where you've been but not necessarily sense where you are presently. Otherwise, how are you supposed to hide from it?
If it can detect pheromones, why doesn't it just follow the trail to you
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2014, 04:00:22 PM
If it can detect pheromones, why doesn't it just follow the trail to you
Because as he explained they disappear over time.
Pheromones is only a thing in the EU. There was no such thing in the first movie, and that is what this game is being based on.
^^^^
And piss on the EU.
Quote from: SM on Apr 28, 2014, 01:49:58 AM
QuoteThats possible... but how could she have survived without food or water?
She didn't. There's food and drink in her hiding spot.
she had to get it from somewhere though
We've discussed this. Read pages two-four.
Oh I must have missed that.
My take is it would be a very short game if the Alien had movie level detection, therefore I've no problem with being able to hide... As long as we don't get a MGS cardboard box :-)
On citing Newt we have no idea how close she came to Aliens during her hiding so it's a fairly moot point. For example it's possible she stockpiled her supplies when there were still plenty of colonists around and the barricades were up... At some point the attack commences, she hears them getting smashed down, runs to the hidey hole and stays there for a week before venturing out. In a scenario like that she never needs to be within visual range of an Alien.
I'm guessing if she had to run around with a blow torch setting alarms off she wouldn't have lasted long :-)
The creature definitely has senses and an overall objective, seek and destroy. They've been pretty vague, but the devs have mentioned that the creature still surprises them on a regular basis and they've been working with it for months, almost ot the point that they're bonding with it, as strange as that sounds. Honestly I think the way to make everyone happy is simply to have multiple difficulty settings. Harder settings, smarter creature and noisier Amanda and more expensive crafting recipes, and so on. Of course, when this demo was made, those settings didn't exist. Probably something they're working on, now, I'd imagine.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 29, 2014, 08:58:17 AM
You're on a ship that burns, in an enclosed space. Why would you use a flamethrower? It's suicide.
Oh well. I guess sit around and wait to be killed then. Much better option.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 29, 2014, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: Mus on Apr 29, 2014, 04:00:22 PM
If it can detect pheromones, why doesn't it just follow the trail to you
Because as he explained they disappear over time.
Yeah but logically they would fade away chronologically, the trail should get stronger the closer to you it gets
Pheromones, schmerones.
If you haven't shat yourself while being stalked by an Alien, you'll be sweaty as at least.
Ripley could "smell" the embryo in Purvis. An Alien should be able to smell something that most humans could.
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 29, 2014, 08:58:17 AM
You're on a ship that burns, in an enclosed space. Why would you use a flamethrower? It's suicide.
Oh well. I guess sit around and wait to be killed then. Much better option.
Or, use a tactic that isn't going to get you and everyone killed, smart-ass.
Metal is pretty inflammable. Not saying there isn't stuff that would burn, but I imagine it would be sectioned off kind of like a submarine. Fire burning in this corridor, door closes to smother it out.
...door closes, trapping your in a burning room with a pissed off alien. : P
In the film, flamethrowers were used in the air ducts with the crew trying to find the alien and force it into the airlocks with suppressing fire. The flame throwers either use napalm and will catch everything on fire, making it impossible for you to chase it because the ground in front of you is now burning, or it just shoots jets of regular fire, which aren't going to do shit against a creature whose outer skin is composed of polarized silicon. Prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions, remember? The flamethrower idea just plain sucks.
In this game, fighting the creature means death. It can't be killed by normal means, and even if it is killed, you're going to die because it bleeds acid, which will burn through the hull and kill you.
Napalm sticks to what you aim it at. It doesn't just magically stick to everything. If it sticks to metal and nothing else, it will burn out when the fuel is gone. You can see evidence of this in the first Alien movie when they were really using flamethrowers in the Dallas scene.
Your more likely to suffocate using a flamethrower than burn to death.
I get your point, but a flamethrower isn't some runaway death machine that would engulf the whole Nostromo in a runaway fireball.
Fair enough. It's not like the ship is made of wood, and using the thrower in the air ducts would be safe than anywhere else in the ship. The real flaw in the plan is going into the ducts to begin with. If anything, I'd close all the doors from remote control and leave the damn thing in there.
Force it into the refinery and lock it in there then cut a deal with the company.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 30, 2014, 12:55:47 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 29, 2014, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 29, 2014, 08:58:17 AM
You're on a ship that burns, in an enclosed space. Why would you use a flamethrower? It's suicide.
Oh well. I guess sit around and wait to be killed then. Much better option.
Or, use a tactic that isn't going to get you and everyone killed, smart-ass.
Because, of course, the intent all along was to get everyone killed.
QuoteThe flame throwers either use napalm and will catch everything on fire, making it impossible for you to chase it because the ground in front of you is now burning, or it just shoots jets of regular fire, which aren't going to do shit against a creature whose outer skin is composed of polarized silicon. Prolonged resistance to adverse environmental conditions, remember? The flamethrower idea just plain sucks.
They don't use napalm in Alien.
Also the
facehugger has an outer layer of protein polysaccharides and sheds its cells and replaces them with polarised silicon. We don't know anything about the adult Aliens make up.
The second film showed the Aliens recoiling from fire, so had the Alien not stooged Dallas in the vents, the flamethrower plan has a good deal of merit - in theory.
We can assume that the silicon in the skin is a defense mechanism, similar to the acid blood. The adults bleed acid, retain that particular mechanism, so tell me, why wouldn't they keep the silicon skin? Of course, there's no way to know for certain without a corpse, which you're not going to get without a shitload of acid getting all over the place. Even if we don't know, would you bet your life on an assumption like that? "Gee, I think it might be vulnerable to the flames from my incinerator unit, but I have no way of knowing without a field test..." It's akin to a suicide mission.
If the creature did have polarized silicon skin, the non-napalm fire wouldn't probably do much to it. After all, these creatures can survive in space and baths in molten lead.
The flamethrower theory was suggested by Ash, who was protecting the creature right along. I seriously doubt he'd tell the crew anything that would've worked. He knew right from the start that they couldn't kill it. This extends, by that logic, to them driving it into an airlock and zapping it into outer space. He knew it wasn't going to work or he wouldn't have suggested it.
Quote from: Jegeren on Apr 25, 2014, 12:47:18 AM
With Xenomorphs almost always having the ability to smell your pheromones and thus making it almost impossible to hide from them, what do you think of being able to hide from them? I am surprised I have not seen more mention of this.
what else can you do in a point and click game to make it exciting? Hide from the alien...
forget about all you know about the alien, and how it can sense through walls....
its about this new and shinny point and click game....and they want you to pre order this single player game, so they can make MONEY.
its a cash cow, and once again, the fans get the kaka end of the stick
Quote from: piff on Apr 30, 2014, 08:53:39 PM
Quote from: Jegeren on Apr 25, 2014, 12:47:18 AM
With Xenomorphs almost always having the ability to smell your pheromones and thus making it almost impossible to hide from them, what do you think of being able to hide from them? I am surprised I have not seen more mention of this.
what else can you do in a point and click game to make it exciting? Hide from the alien...
forget about all you know about the alien, and how it can sense through walls....
its about this new and shinny point and click game....and they want you to pre order this single player game, so they can make MONEY.
its a cash cow, and once again, the fans get the kaka end of the stick
Real fans of "Alien" get a game based on that, not restricted by any EU bullshit.
Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean it isn't a good one.
Point and Click games at least hold up after years and years if they«re good, and that's what matters.
QuoteWe can assume that the silicon in the skin is a defense mechanism, similar to the acid blood. The adults bleed acid, retain that particular mechanism, so tell me, why wouldn't they keep the silicon skin?
Why can we assume any of this?
QuoteOf course, there's no way to know for certain without a corpse, which you're not going to get without a shitload of acid getting all over the place.
Acid will eventually neutralise.
Quote"Gee, I think it might be vulnerable to the flames from my incinerator unit, but I have no way of knowing without a field test..." It's akin to a suicide mission.
Because they had so many other options to choose from, eh?
QuoteIf the creature did have polarized silicon skin, the non-napalm fire wouldn't probably do much to it. After all, these creatures can survive in space and baths in molten lead.
Doesn't matter what the skin is - silicone, protein polysaccharides, blancmange, whatever - Aliens don't like fire. They made a call on the Nostromo, in the absence of other calls to make, which ultimately turned out to be correct.
QuoteThe flamethrower theory was suggested by Ash, who was protecting the creature right along. I seriously doubt he'd tell the crew anything that would've worked. He knew right from the start that they couldn't kill it. This extends, by that logic, to them driving it into an airlock and zapping it into outer space. He knew it wasn't going to work or he wouldn't have suggested it.
:laugh: Ash knew next to nothing. He did however get placed at the airlock with Ripley. If Dallas was successful, he was in a perfect position to ensure some accident occurred so it wouldn't get blasted into space. Just like in the later deleted scene where he sounds an alarm to stop Parker and Ripley blasting it into space.
SM, you're taking the piss, aren't you? : )
You're being facetious. Of course the acid for blood is a defense mechanism.
Yes, the acid will neutralize... after it melts a nice big hole in the hull, or your face (see: Drake, Aliens; those flamethrowers really worked there, didn't they? Oh, wait, no they didn't. They caught the APC on fire, as well as the ammo bag, which blew up and killed Crowe. Diedritch also toasted Frost with her thrower when she got grabbed. Face it. They're not a safe weapon to use, even when in the hands of "experts." Furthermore, the ones in Aliens were military-grade and used napalm. The ones in Alien were jury-rigged and didn't use napalm and were used by inexperienced space truckers. So many flaws in the flamethrower plan it's not funny.)
They could've trapped the alien in the ducts by closing off the doors. They could've not split up and fought as team. They had other options, but underestimated the creature and overestimated the effectiveness of their "weaponry."
You're saying Aliens don't like fire, but you're forgetting something (or ignoring it for the sake of your flawed argument), and that's Aliens came after Alien. What James Cameron decided about the creatures in the sequel doesn't apply here as far as I'm concerned, unless he borrowed something from the first film. They never have a chance to test fire against the alien in the first film. In fact, in Alien, the theatrical version that is, Ripley doesn't even use her flamethrower.
I think it's funny that you seem to understand what Ash knew and didn't know. You have to remember here that this wasn't the first attempt to capture this species (how else would they know about the creature, otherwise?). For all we know, Ash had detailed files on the organism, but didn't tell the crew. His research into the physiology of the face-hugger told him about its physical makeup, that it would be impervious to fire. Even if it wasn't fire-proof, he wasn't going to risk having the creature damaged by hoping that Dallas would fail. That makes no sense. Him giving Dallas bad instructions seems more likely to me. Both our hypothesises about his behavior are just that -- hypothesises -- but which has less room for error as far as the preservation of the creature is concerned? Mine. : )
On that note, I should add that Ripley chased the crew out of its sleepy spot with gas (I'm not sure it was steam given the labels on all the buttons). Let's say that it was. Was the creature hurt? It seemed to be annoyed, but hurt? "It won't damage the little bastard -- not unless his skin is thinner than ours -- but it will give him a little incentive." So it felt pain. It doesn't mean a damn thing because it got right up and proceeded to go over and attack Ripley. You might be able to discourage it, but fire spreads and your tank is going to run dry pretty quick and let's not forget how cramped those vents were. It was dark and tight in there, and Dallas was effectively served up to the creature. He couldn't see in the dark, and the creature knew exactly where he was. He had no chance. It's almost like... almost like Ash knew this would happen. He would send Dallas into the vents knowing his plan would fail, would he? Such a mean android.
Also, back to the topic of the effectiveness of fire. The engines of the narcissus weren't hot enough to incinerate the creature. It seemed to still be alive as it was blasted out into space, and definitely in one piece. If those weren't going to do the trick, I seriously doubt Parker's 20-minute Macguyver Special was going to.
QuoteSM, you're taking the piss, aren't you? : )
Only taking the piss of baseless and irrelevant assumptions that lead to fanciful conclusions.
Quote(see: Drake, Aliens; those flamethrowers really worked there, didn't they? Oh, wait, no they didn't. They caught the APC on fire, as well as the ammo bag, which blew up and killed Crowe. Diedritch also toasted Frost with her thrower when she got grabbed. Face it. They're not a safe weapon to use, even when in the hands of "experts." Furthermore, the one's in Aliens were military grade and used napalm. The ones in Alien were jury-rigged and didn't use napalm and were used by inexperienced space truckers. So many flaws in the flamethrower plan it's not funny.)
Irrelevant case in point.
They never got use one on an Alien properly. The Queen however recoiled from Ripley's flamethrower in the elevator, and later from the torch on the loader.
QuoteThey could've trapped the alien in the ducts by closing off the doors. They could've not split up and fought as team. They had other options, but underestimated the creature and overestimated the effectiveness of their "weaponry."
Yeah, so?
QuoteI think it's funny that you seem to understand what Ash knew and didn't know. You have to remember here that this wasn't the first attempt to capture this species (how else would they know about the creature, otherwise?).
They didn't know about the creature. They knew about a transmission warning them away from LV-426.
QuoteFor all we know, Ash had detailed files on the organism, but didn't tell the crew. His research into the physiology of the face-hugger told him about its physical makeup, that it would be impervious to fire.
More erroneous assumptions.
QuoteBoth our hypothesises about his behavior are just that -- hypothesises -- but which has less room for error as far as the preservation of the creature is concerned? Mine. : )
No. Your hypothesis is flat out incorrect. I'll rely with what's actually in the film rather than resort to making things up.
Describing your own rhetoric, I see.
The Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Yeah so? It would've meant them not dying. This is the whole point of this argument. Using something that works and not dying. The flamethrower tactic got the crew killed. Simple as that. In fact, since you love referring to Aliens to prove your points, I'll do the same: The crew went into the dark, crowded space to fight the creature with ineffective weapons and died just like the marines all did.
How do you know what the company did or did not know? Sounds like, I don't know, an assumption?
OK. Prove me wrong. You can't and you know it.
"What's in the film"? As far as killing the creature is concerned, you're taking what Ash says at face value. This seems extremely stupid when you and I both know that he wanted to keep it alive whatever the cost. In the end, he said it couldn't be killed, no matter what, so it kind of undermines you're presumption that fire would've done the trick. It wouldn't, because Ash said it wouldn't, and this time he was being honest.
Quote from: NickisSmart on Apr 30, 2014, 11:59:54 PM
Describing your own rhetoric, I see.
The Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Yeah so? It would've meant them not dying. This is the whole point of this argument. Using something that works and not dying. The flamethrower tactic got the crew killed. Simple as that. In fact, since you love referring to Aliens to prove your points, I'll do the same: The crew went into the dark, crowded space to fight the creature with ineffective weapons and died just like the marines all did.
How do you know what the company did or did not know? Sounds like, I don't know, an assumption?
OK. Prove me wrong. You can't and you know it.
"What's in the film"? As far as killing the creature is concerned, you're taking what Ash says at face value. This seems extremely stupid when you and I both know that he wanted to keep it alive whatever the cost. In the end, he said it couldn't be killed, no matter what, so it kind of undermines you're presumption that fire would've done the trick. It wouldn't, because Ash said it wouldn't, and this time he was being honest.
I wouldn't continue this... SM is one of the most respected posters on this forum. I hate to put it this way... but his word is literally law when it comes to Alien. There are a few others in the same category, but SM is at the top of the chart. All your going to do by arguing with him is leave the site in utter disgust. If you enjoy coming here, do yourself a favor and don't argue with SM or any of the other long-time posters. Make your point(s)... but arguing with the long-timers here is akin to urinating up a flagpole. Your just going to get yourself wet.
I speak from personal experience here, btw.
Pissing on yourself is never fun.
SM is a big Australian spider typing with his fangs and right now he's got his legs spread out saying, "Come at me bro!"
QuoteThe Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Amanda Ripley was an invention of made by James Cameron and she appears in this game.
Quotew do you know what the company did or did not know? Sounds like, I don't know, an assumption?
OK. Prove me wrong. You can't and you know it.
I don't have to. It's all there in the film. Ignore it, if you wish, but you're still wrong.
Quote"What's in the film"? As far as killing the creature is concerned, you're taking what Ash says at face value. This seems extremely stupid when you and I both know that he wanted to keep it alive whatever the cost. In the end, he said it couldn't be killed, no matter what, so it kind of undermines you're presumption that fire would've done the trick. It wouldn't, because Ash said it wouldn't, and this time he was being honest.
Ash was correct so far as they - Ripley, Parker and Lambert - couldn't kill it. If they did, it'd mean they'd die too. Best they could hope for was to get it off the ship. The game seems to be a similar situation. But Ripley seemed to improvise nicely enough in the end with the shuttle engines. It was never the intent of the filmmakers that you couldn't kill it. You could. Ron Cobb came up with the acid blood idea to stop the crew just shooting it.
QuoteI wouldn't continue this... SM is one of the most respected posters on this forum. I hate to put it this way... but his word is literally law when it comes to Alien. There are a few others in the same category, but SM is at the top of the chart. All your going to do by arguing with him is leave the site in utter disgust. If you enjoy coming here, do yourself a favor and don't argue with SM or any of the other long-time posters. Make your point(s)... but arguing with the long-timers here is akin to urinating up a flagpole. Your just going to get yourself wet.
I speak from personal experience here, btw.
That's churching it up just a tad - however I just prefer it if people want to present stuff as fact that they can back it up, or they simply say they're stating an opinion. :)
he's still a big Australian spider
Yeah, that 'n all.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2014, 01:26:10 AM
QuoteThe Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Amanda Ripley was an invention of made by James Cameron and she appears in this game.
Yep.
Where you can see the name clearly:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yourprops.com%2Fmovieprops%2Foriginal%2Fyp4e8ab3609fe215.94654838%2FAliens-Aliens-Ripley-s-Daughters-Photo-1.jpg&hash=72e610a02d2232493cda086dbe109ee4429e5005)
In the actual movie
Aliens (director's cut).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPItoMfPHLQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPItoMfPHLQ#)
Quote from: Crazy Rich on May 01, 2014, 10:02:25 AM
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2014, 01:26:10 AM
QuoteThe Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Amanda Ripley was an invention of made by James Cameron and she appears in this game.
Yep.
Where you can see the name clearly:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.yourprops.com%2Fmovieprops%2Foriginal%2Fyp4e8ab3609fe215.94654838%2FAliens-Aliens-Ripley-s-Daughters-Photo-1.jpg&hash=72e610a02d2232493cda086dbe109ee4429e5005)
Will we get to meet Mr. McLarren in the game?
I don't know. Kinda doubt it.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2014, 01:26:10 AM
QuoteThe Queen was an invention made by James Cameron, in the sequel. The rules of the sequel do not apply to Alien. This is an Alien game, not an Aliens game, capiche?
Amanda Ripley was an invention of made by James Cameron and she appears in this game.
The developers have stated multiple times that this is an Alien game. Just because they used a deleted scene from Aliens to progress the plot doesn't mean that they have to follow that film's rules regarding the nature of the alien.
Quotew do you know what the company did or did not know? Sounds like, I don't know, an assumption?
OK. Prove me wrong. You can't and you know it.
I don't have to. It's all there in the film. Ignore it, if you wish, but you're still wrong.
SM, saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. Prove that I'm wrong.
Quote"What's in the film"? As far as killing the creature is concerned, you're taking what Ash says at face value. This seems extremely stupid when you and I both know that he wanted to keep it alive whatever the cost. In the end, he said it couldn't be killed, no matter what, so it kind of undermines you're presumption that fire would've done the trick. It wouldn't, because Ash said it wouldn't, and this time he was being honest.
Ash was correct so far as they - Ripley, Parker and Lambert - couldn't kill it. If they did, it'd mean they'd die too. Best they could hope for was to get it off the ship. The game seems to be a similar situation. But Ripley seemed to improvise nicely enough in the end with the shuttle engines. It was never the intent of the filmmakers that you couldn't kill it. You could. Ron Cobb came up with the acid blood idea to stop the crew just shooting it.
SM, perhaps the creature can be killed. When Ash said that they couldn't kill it, however, he wasn't saying that it was literally indestructible, he was saying that their current "weaponry" wasn't up to snuff, including the incinerator units. The pseudo-flamethrowers jury-rigged by Parker wouldn't have done the trick. Why? Consider the scene when Ripley "kills" the alien. It was still in one piece and moving when it was knocked away from the ship. Did you see a corpse? No, you didn't and neither did I. All we know for certain was that she escaped and the Alien was left stranded in space.
So, if the engines of a star ship couldn't do the job then the crew's paltry means to create fire certainly wouldn't have. That's my entire point, here. Fire doesn't work. I'm not saying that the beast can't be killed, but I am saying that it couldn't be killed by the incinerator units. There's nothing in the film that suggests that fire has any harmful effect on the creature. The crew assumed that fire would work, but never once have a chance to test their theory. In fact, in the final shots of the creature floating off into space, it is still alive, having survived the plasma of the Narcissus' engines.
That is still different. In space there is nothing that allows for the spreading of heat. So it takes longer for things to cool down and to warm up.
That doesn't mean a flamethrower wouldn't work.
Hold on. In space, there is a presence of both intense cold (thanks to the vacuum) and intense heat (solar radiation). If the creature can withstand the intense conditions of outer space (which Ash himself points out in one of the film's deleted scenes*) I doubt a flamethrower is going to do much. Solar radiation > incinerator unit = worthless piece of junk. Thinking that it would work is just false hope manifesting in the crew's panic-striken brains.
Yes but also in space it would take longer to freeze to death than it would if you fell into the artic ocean. The water in the ocean saps the heat from your body. In space its a vacuum. There is nothing. Your body would retain heat for a much longer period of time because there is nothing pulling it away.
You also wouldn't heat up is fast unless you fell into the orbit o something with an atmosphere.
You would still be subject to the radiation of the nearest star. There would be no atmosphere shielding you from the solar rays and you'd effectively be cooked to death. If a creature could withstand the awesome power of unadulterated solar radiation, a little local combustion seems downright innocuous.
The nearest star could be lightyears away. If I'm in pluto's orbit the Sun isn't doing shit to me.
QuoteThe developers have stated multiple times that this is an Alien game. Just because they used a deleted scene from Aliens to progress the plot doesn't mean that they have to follow that film's rules regarding the nature of the alien.
Who was arguing that they had to do that? And making the main protagonist played by the player is teensy bit more than 'progressing the plot'. Basing the game on the original film doesn't mean the rest of the universe gets ignored.
QuoteSM, saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. Prove that I'm wrong.
I'm not saying you're wrong, personally. Film says you're wrong. Ridley Scott says you're wrong.
Quotethe scene when Ripley "kills" the alien. It was still in one piece and moving when it was knocked away from the ship.
So? She defeated it. Was it dead? Impossible to be certain. The movement of the Alien may have been backwash from the engines.
QuoteSo, if the engines of a star ship couldn't do the job then the crew's paltry means to create fire certainly wouldn't have. That's my entire point, here. Fire doesn't work.
No one is arguing that a flamethrower will kill it. It's irrelevant. They will still retreat from fire, though. Maybe this game will shed more light on this in some way.
QuoteYou would still be subject to the radiation of the nearest star. There would be no atmosphere shielding you from the solar rays and you'd effectively be cooked to death. If a creature could withstand the awesome power of unadulterated solar radiation, a little local combustion seems downright innocuous.
The solar radiation where the Alien was ejected would be miniscule.
The Queen when ejected would have more problems - but gravity would be first and foremost.
QuoteThe nearest star could be lightyears away. If I'm in pluto's orbit the Sun isn't doing shit to me.
If the size of the Z2R system is similar to ours, the Nostromo wouldn't have technically left the system - but would be WAY beyond the orbit of its outermosst planet.
Quote from: SM on May 01, 2014, 11:40:39 PM
QuoteThe developers have stated multiple times that this is an Alien game. Just because they used a deleted scene from Aliens to progress the plot doesn't mean that they have to follow that film's rules regarding the nature of the alien.
Who was arguing that they had to do that? And making the main protagonist played by the player is teensy bit more than 'progressing the plot'. Basing the game on the original film doesn't mean the rest of the universe gets ignored.
Sure it does. The makers of the game can use what they want and leave the rest. It's up to them, not you. This alien is meant to be like the original creature, which has little in common with the "bugs" in Cameron's film.
QuoteSM, saying I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. Prove that I'm wrong.
I'm not saying you're wrong, personally. Film says you're wrong. Ridley Scott says you're wrong.
Wrong about what? Seems to me like it's you who says these things. Certainly not Ridley Scott. No offense, but he thinks forums likes these are stupid for a reason (his words, not mine). Face it. This is your opinion, unless you can provide specific examples about how I'm wrong that are present in the film. How am I wrong and why?
Quotethe scene when Ripley "kills" the alien. It was still in one piece and moving when it was knocked away from the ship.
So? She defeated it. Was it dead? Impossible to be certain. The movement of the Alien may have been backwash from the engines.
But you can't say that for certain, can you? More conjecture and assumption. It goes to show that the film isn't as cut as dry as you're making it out to be. There's room for interpretation here. In this case, I'm inferring that the film is implying that the creature isn't flammable. I can make a case for this based off evidence in the film. You're saying it's afraid of fire. What's funny about this is the fact that the creature is never exposed to fire in the first film. Not once. You're basing your hypothesis off of the sequel. Not smart, because those are a different set of rules, and probably not the rules that CA will use in their game. It's an Alien game, not an Aliens game. I, on the other hand, can make my case based off what the film provides, through Ash's explanations and the alien's behavior onscreen. There's something to work off of. Your argument is an assumption based off a sequel. However, Aliens didn't exist in 1979. Think about it: The devs are trying to be faithful to the first film. Nothing after 1979, technologically speaking (in terms of what the artists could build) so why not script-wise, either?
QuoteSo, if the engines of a star ship couldn't do the job then the crew's paltry means to create fire certainly wouldn't have. That's my entire point, here. Fire doesn't work.
No one is arguing that a flamethrower will kill it. It's irrelevant. They will still retreat from fire, though. Maybe this game will shed more light on this in some way.
The film is more on my side than yours. In the first film, the creature never retreats from fire. it is a hypothesis that is never tested. What is irrelevant here is how the aliens behaved in the second film.
QuoteYou would still be subject to the radiation of the nearest star. There would be no atmosphere shielding you from the solar rays and you'd effectively be cooked to death. If a creature could withstand the awesome power of unadulterated solar radiation, a little local combustion seems downright innocuous.
The solar radiation where the Alien was ejected would be miniscule.
How do you guys know the amount of solar radiation? The science here is sketchy but they could still be in the solar system, not interstellar space. If this is the case, the radiation would be higher than you're suggesting.
The Queen when ejected would have more problems - but gravity would be first and foremost.
What gravity? It's space.
QuoteThe nearest star could be lightyears away. If I'm in pluto's orbit the Sun isn't doing shit to me.
How do you know what's going on on Pluto? Radiation levels, even if they are low, are much worse in space because there is no atmosphere to shield you. Total exposure. A creature that can survive in space, without O2, exposed to radiation, that bleeds acid, has silicon skin, is probably going to be pretty hard to kill. A space trucker isn't going to be able to do it. The best you can hope for is blow the sucker out of the air lock and get the f**k out of dodge.
If the size of the Z2R system is similar to ours, the Nostromo wouldn't have technically left the system - but would be WAY beyond the orbit of its outermosst planet.
I'm talking about hot and cold. There is no convection or conduction in space. You freeze to death slowly and you heat up slowly. If Nostromo is on the outer verges of the planetary system, the Alien even if he is blasted by engine rockets isn't going to burn like he would INSIDE the Nostromo with an atmosphere to conduct heat via flamethrower.
QuoteSure it does.
No, it doesn't. This game doesn't exist in a vaccuum that only includes the first film and none of the sequels exist. Of course they're using the first film as a template, but they're obviously not ignoring the other films simply by having Amanda as the main character.
QuoteWrong about what?
You've forgotten what you were arguing about? Recap - You say the Company knew about the Alien. The film doesn't support this nor does Ridley Scott nor do the sequels.
QuoteBut you can't say that for certain, can you?
Yes. That much is obvious be me saying "Impossible to be certain".
QuoteYour argument is an assumption based off a sequel.
Its proven in a sequel - two even - so it's not an assumption.
QuoteHow do you guys know the amount of solar radiation? The science here is sketchy but they could still be in the solar system, not interstellar space. If this is the case, the radiation would be higher than you're suggesting.
The Nostromo was in the 5000 AU ballpark from Z2R (give or take) when it exploded. As a comparison, Pluto is about 40 AU form the sun, and doesn't receive a stack of solar radiation at that distance. Nostromo might've even been closer to Z1R by the time it blew up. Possibly.
QuoteWhat gravity? It's space.
The gravity of the planet they're orbiting. The one they just came from.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 03:06:39 AM
Quote from: Kimarhi on Apr 28, 2014, 02:28:58 AM
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Apr 28, 2014, 01:33:20 AM
Yes, which would mean perhaps she knocked over something and woke one.
But due to having a direct vision cone like us, it didn't find her.
Makes way more sense that the seeing "aura" from anywhere crap.
More sense than an Alien seeing like a human does even though it doesn't have eyes. wat
Why? It's "cone of vision" could easily be attributed to hearing.
Alien 3 says otherwise. Not only are no sounds used in visual representations or cues, as vision is used for visual representation, but apparently their hearing is quadraphonic which would be pretty damn precise.
The reason Newt is alive is the same reason Ripley isn't turned to hamburger when she enters the hive by herself.
Pax Headbite club.
:laugh:
QuoteA space trucker isn't going to be able to do it.
Dallas and Parker are capable vets, with Parker in particular having saw some shit go down.
Through Cobb's exegesis and other stuff (regrown limb piece Nostromo weapons that Parker dismisses (laser, flamethrower) (and what we see onscreen. we get:
Stuff that won't kill an adult Alien:
Harsh Language
Sharp Human Sticks
Fire (fire shown is white and orange so anywhere from 550 C to 1200 C)
Napalm (b?) (800-1200/1600 C, mixture dependent )
Plasmic Engines (25000+ C)
Boiling Lead ( 1750 C)
the weight of of cubic tons boiling lead
Space Vacuum
Stuff that will kill an adult Alien
Rapid pressure differential changes, especially internally derived ones (pew pew)
Being run over by a 25 ton vehicle
Sharp Predator sticks
Explosions (while it's unknown whether the ops grenades actually killed them, they didn't get back up in frame and the one in res didn't survive getting sploded in space for sure)
To say that the Nostromo crew wouldn't have been able to get through that list with adequate supplies and getting the Alien into a non vital area of the ship is selling them vastly short, especially in light of Ash's machination, which is why it was in the script to begin with.
Ridley did say the Alien was for intents and purposes unable to be killed by conventional means as a space boogeyman, he also said the Alien would live for three days as opposed to Shusett's "effectively immortal/live a really long time/grumpy space baby" and while we know Aliens can hang around for 100 years courtesyt of AvP, anything other than that is unknown, and neither of the others were inserted into other films as motifs.
Quote from: SMThe solar radiation where the Alien was ejected would be miniscule.
Indeed, they were still 37 light years out from Sol. ;)
Quote from: NickisSmartYou would still be subject to the radiation of the nearest star. There would be no atmosphere shielding you from the solar rays and you'd effectively be cooked to death. If a creature could withstand the awesome power of unadulterated solar radiation, a little local combustion seems downright innocuous.
The Apollo astronauts had minimal particle radiation shielding in their lunar and command modules. Their fabric surface suits even less. It would have protected them from UV radiation but I doubt it would have stopped a flame thrower.
Quote from: NickisSmartWhat gravity? It's space.
Gravity is everywhere in space. There is no such thing as "zero-g".
About surviving space, how long was it even out there? Thirty seconds? You could hold your breath for thirty seconds I'm sure. The biggest issue for a human in a vacuum would be that our lungs would be damaged, since the lack of pressure would let them expand too much. The solution is to empty your lungs, but then you'll just pass out within seconds. But isn't the alien meant to have a more rigid body, some kind of exoskeleton or something, which would hold its lungs together. So it could just stop breathing as if it was underwater and go on like it's nothing. Assuming it has lungs. Radiation and whatever would be a longer term threat, but even a tardigrade can handle that
Quote from: SM on May 02, 2014, 01:46:02 AM
QuoteSure it does.
No, it doesn't. This game doesn't exist in a vaccuum that only includes the first film and none of the sequels exist. Of course they're using the first film as a template, but they're obviously not ignoring the other films simply by having Amanda as the main character.
So you're telling me that they couldn't have her as a main character and ignore other aspects of Aliens, such as the Queen? That's silly. Of course they could do this. Anything's possible in a creative medium. Pick and choose. The important thing to remember here is they're honoring the first film by making a game that revolves around it, that they'd want to play. They want a single creature. The queen implies mass production of these creatures. If that concept in the alien life cycle were to bother me I'd just ignore it. There's nothing stopping them from doing the same.
QuoteWrong about what?
You've forgotten what you were arguing about? Recap - You say the Company knew about the Alien. The film doesn't support this nor does Ridley Scott nor do the sequels.
What makes you think I forgot anything. You said I was wrong but didn't say about what, and I'm making multiple points in a free-flowing discussion. The fault lies in your court for not being specific in your accusations. Now, perhaps you could explain how the film doesn't support the company knowing of the existence of the organism prior to the Nostromo landing on LV-426. Obviously it does because in the film Ash has his special order, dictating him to ensure the return of the organism. Now, what organism do you think the Special Order is referring to? The alien, what else? This was in the movie. It supports my argument. If you think it doesn't, state how; don't just say I'm wrong because that's just lazy.
QuoteBut you can't say that for certain, can you?
Yes. That much is obvious be me saying "Impossible to be certain".
QuoteYour argument is an assumption based off a sequel.
Its proven in a sequel - two even - so it's not an assumption.
Yes it is, because you're assuming that Ridley Scott would've approved of the events in the later films. Give me an interview where he says, "I agree with the turning of the alien into a bug that can be killed with guns, and flamethrowers." He's never made any such statement; those events, which occurred in the sequels, were included by James Cameron without Ridley Scott's blessing. Aliens is fundamentally a remake of the first film, with an emphasis on action instead of scares. Yes, they're connected by plot, but stylistically speaking Aliens is a remake, and the creature has been reinvented by Cameron without the approval of Scott. Unless you can provide direct proof that Scott agrees with all of the changes made in the sequel, more specifically the ones that you claim prove that the alien in the first film is scared of and weak to fire, the events that happen in the sequels involving aliens and flamethrowers are irrelevant to the first film and its version of the creature. The alien in Alien was modeled after the Shogooth from At the Mountains of Madness. There's nothing bug-like about it.
This is all irrelevant for the reasons stated above. Scott wasn't involved in the sequels. They were made without his consent, and the makers took the creature and did whatever they wanted. In those films, the creature was killed by fire, was afraid of fire, etc. However, in my opinion, what happens in those films doesn't apply to Alien, in terms of Scott's vision of the creature, and that vision is the one that CA will be adhering to, not James Cameron's, David Fincher's, or anyone other than Scott's. This is my opinion and you can't say any more concretely than I what CA will do and you know it.
QuoteHow do you guys know the amount of solar radiation? The science here is sketchy but they could still be in the solar system, not interstellar space. If this is the case, the radiation would be higher than you're suggesting.
The Nostromo was in the 5000 AU ballpark from Z2R (give or take) when it exploded. As a comparison, Pluto is about 40 AU form the sun, and doesn't receive a stack of solar radiation at that distance. Nostromo might've even been closer to Z1R by the time it blew up. Possibly.
QuoteWhat gravity? It's space.
The gravity of the planet they're orbiting. The one they just came from.
The planet whose star they're 5000 AU or so from?
Confusing Nostromo and Sulaco. Drone vs Queen. Drone was ejected on the outer reach of the solar system of Acheron. The queen was ejected right out of the Sulaco into Acheron's atmosphere.
I'm going to say that the drone in Isolation is going to be the drone from Alien.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 02, 2014, 08:23:45 PM
Confusing Nostromo and Sulaco. Drone vs Queen. Drone was ejected on the outer reach of the solar system of Acheron. The queen was ejected right out of the Sulaco into Acheron's atmosphere.
I'm going to say that the drone in Isolation is going to be the drone from Alien.
No...
Ellen Ripley blasted that "drone" into space when Amanda wasn't even 11 yet, judging by Amanda being an adult in this at least a decade has passed.
No way, that
same drone could be alive and kicking in Sevastopol.
QuoteIndeed, they were still 37 light years out from Sol.
Zing!
* 39 ;D
Quote from: Crazy Rich on May 02, 2014, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 02, 2014, 08:23:45 PM
Confusing Nostromo and Sulaco. Drone vs Queen. Drone was ejected on the outer reach of the solar system of Acheron. The queen was ejected right out of the Sulaco into Acheron's atmosphere.
I'm going to say that the drone in Isolation is going to be the drone from Alien.
No...
Ellen Ripley blasted that "drone" into space when Amanda wasn't even 11 yet, judging by Amanda being an adult in this at least a decade has passed.
No way, that same drone could be alive and kicking in Sevastopol.
Its an Alien bruh.
A bigger one with new legs.
Its been eating people for awhile before Amanda shows up.
The legs could just be another cosmetic change every alien ever design goes through.
Doubt it.
We will see.
Quote from: Mus on May 02, 2014, 12:45:47 PM
About surviving space, how long was it even out there? Thirty seconds? You could hold your breath for thirty seconds I'm sure. The biggest issue for a human in a vacuum would be that our lungs would be damaged, since the lack of pressure would let them expand too much. The solution is to empty your lungs, but then you'll just pass out within seconds. But isn't the alien meant to have a more rigid body, some kind of exoskeleton or something, which would hold its lungs together. So it could just stop breathing as if it was underwater and go on like it's nothing. Assuming it has lungs. Radiation and whatever would be a longer term threat, but even a tardigrade can handle that
tardigrades are the size of head of the head of a pin, and don't count.
The Alien also has a gaping hole actively ejecting fluid and then gets a nice full body bath in plasmic engines.
Aliens also have mesoskeletal system, which makes pressure differential a much bigger deal when your squishy bits are sandwiched between two surfaces with limited give.
Will any of that kill it faster than suffocation, or within the timeframe we saw it in the movie? Like I have no idea, you're going to have to spell this out for me lol. Maybe it died shortly after it left the screen
Below is an article published containing James Cameron's reply to a group of angry fans.
(https://alienseries.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/125_0033.jpg?w=500&h=675)
It's interesting because Cameron seems to think that the creatures have the same physical capabilities: "Since the crew of the Nostromo were unarmed, with the exception of flamethrowers (which we never actually see used against the creature) the relative threat was much greater than it would be to an armed squad of state-of-the-art Marines. One crazed man with a knife can be the most terrifying thing you can imagine, if you happen to be unarmed and locked in a house alone with him. We set out to make a different kind of film, not just retell the same story in a different way ."
So he admits here that he wanted to make a different kind of film, by altering the design of the creature. He also confirms that we never see the flamethrowers used against the creature in the first film. He is, in effect, assuming that they would work on the creatures in the second film, because the first film offers no proof that they would have any effect whatsoever.
Earlier in the article he also admits to changing the Alien life cycle: "Alien screenwriter Dan O'Bannon's proposed life, as completed in the unseen scene*, would have been too restricting to me as a story teller and I would assume that few fans of ALIENS would be willing to trade the final cat-fight between the moms for a point of technical accuracy that only a microscopic percentage of ALIEN fans might be aware of."
*The scene that he's referring to is the deleted scene where Ripley finds Dallas and Brett. As a filmmaker, he chose to ignore it, knowing that it existed, and altered the creature to give the audience what he thought they wanted. So if James Cameron can do this, where is it said anywhere that CA can't do the same thing in reverse and ignore his Queen in order to revert the alien species back to Dan O'Bannon's original life cycle? There'd be nothing stopping them from doing so, and it'd be in the same spirit as James' modifications: to give the gamers the story that CA wants to tell. And what if that story that they want to tell is in line with the original Alien screenplay and the aforementioned deleted scene (which is now an official part of the film, introduced in the director's cut)? They could do this, if they wanted. It might piss off virtually all ALIENS fans, but the ALIEN fans might just find something to love about this. And what if CA was more interested in making ALIEN fans happy than ALIENS fans, this being an ALIEN game and not an ALIENS game, telling the story as it was told by Ridley Scott and not in the way that James Cameron and Gale Ann Hurd wanted to tell it? Well, they could do this, couldn't they?
Heaven forbid.
They aren't going to discount the other films though. You don't just discredit the most popular film in the franchise even if it isn't your favorite.
Cameron didn't discredit anything in Alien, he just didn't use what wasn't shown.
You have no way of knowing what they're going to do any more than I do. I'm just presenting what I think is the best-case scenario, because I'm an Alien fan and dislike Cameron's changes to the creature. An Alien game without the queen, pulse rifles, or marines would be like a breath of fresh air, if you ask me.
It's going to be. But they will not discount Aliens in anyway. Count on it. Write it down. Remember I said it.
Doing so would be a bigger affront to fans than misrepresenting the second movie like ACM did. You've probably been around these forums long enough to know how more than a few fans feel about Alien 3.
You don't just wipe out the most popular and money making entry to the franchise. There is a reason the EU and the games stick with the Aliens title and not the Alien title.
They might ignore it. But they won't discredit it.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 12:42:26 AM
Its been eating people for awhile before Amanda shows up.
The legs could just be another cosmetic change every alien ever design goes through.
15 years have passed exactly (learned that yesterday).
It took 57 years to
accidently find a
bloody ship in the deep vastness of outer space.
Not buying it.
People were in the ballpark because they found the black box.
I don't see where else it could come from unless they went back to the derelict which is pretty played out already.
Well imagine throwing out a car crash dummy into space and then returning home to wait 15 years, then go back out into space after 15 years to try and find it again.
Alien, ALIENs, ALIEN3, ALIEN: res
Nope, seems like everything that matters uses "Alien" not "Aliens" it's the Alien franchise, not the Aliens franchise.
That's why I said the EU Erik. C'mon. And lol at you trying to use ALIENs.
They would have as much trouble finding the black box as they would the Alien. The black box would've been jettisoned into deep space by the explosion. Kind of like the Alien and the Narcissus thrusters.
They probably follow the Nostromo's black box to the derelict which is pretty played out but Occam's razor.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 05:17:10 PM
It's going to be. But they will not discount Aliens in anyway. Count on it. Write it down. Remember I said it.
I believe we have a bet, here, because I think they'll ignore Aliens and return to the original life cycle as represented in the director's cut.
Doing so would be a bigger affront to fans than misrepresenting the second movie like ACM did. You've probably been around these forums long enough to know how more than a few fans feel about Alien 3.
You're missing the point of this game. It's not about representing Aliens. It's about representing Alien and Ridley Scott's version of the Alien universe. CA is going back to the roots of the series. It would actually be more appropriate to ignore Aliens in this regard, as it made some pretty sweeping changes to the function of the creature as a species.
You don't just wipe out the most popular and money making entry to the franchise*. There is a reason the EU and the games stick with the Aliens title and not the Alien title.
*Before Aliens existed, Alien was the most popular entry in the series, and some of the best ideas in the film were swept under the rug by Cameron because he felt that they were inconvenient for him. For CA, certain aspects of Cameron's version of the lore are going to be inconvenient for them to tell a story that's faithful to the original film in its purest form. Now, it all depends how faithful CA wants to be, but given the extreme attention to detail they've demonstrated thus far in the development process, it doesn't seem like a huge leap to suggest that they'll honor O'Bannon and Ridley's 's version of the creature and not Cameron's.
You also have to keep in mind, they'll be alienating the fans of the second film right off the bat by not having guns or multiple aliens in the game.
They might ignore it. But they won't discredit it.
Again, we have a bet, because I think they will. They'll take the game in a direction on par with Ridley's view of the universe, which means no queen. I actually really hope they do this because I'm an Alien fan and am not entirely partially to the second film and am not ashamed to say it. Alien is a horror film and A:I is a horror game. If it's to succeed as one, I think it should remove itself as far as it can from Aliens. Aliens was a different kind of film, according to Cameron, but CA needs to tell the same story in a similar way to Alien for this experiment to bear satisfying results, in my mind.
Edit: I also have to point out that this will introduce some consistency to the original source material. Having an Alien game in its truest sense means Aliens never happened. As a fan of the first film, nothing could make me happier than seeing a consistent prolificacy involving the Ridley Scott version of the creature. A:I could mark a first step in that direction by discrediting Aliens and proudly demonstrating its loyalty to the original film. I believe that's where CA's hearts lie. In any case, I think they're making the game that they want to make and don't really care what the fans of James Cameron's film feel about it. They're sticking to their guns and I respect that.
Time will tell and see how ballsy they are.
Discrediting and ignoring are two different things. They might not make any mention of Aliens, but that doesn't mean they will discredit the sequels. It would be foolish to do so.
If that's your bet then you are on.
If just ignoring the sequel so they can replicate the first movie is your bet then your not on.........because that is what they are trying to do.
I like the idea of hiding from the alien. Better then running around and blasting them apart like in every freaking alien and avp game.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on May 03, 2014, 06:17:03 PM
Alien, ALIENs, ALIEN3, ALIEN: res
Nope, seems like everything that matters uses "Alien" not "Aliens" it's the Alien franchise, not the Aliens franchise.
all of my wuts
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 06:48:59 PM
Discrediting and ignoring are two different things. They might not make any mention of Aliens, but that doesn't mean they will discredit the sequels. It would be foolish to do so.
If that's your bet then you are on.
If just ignoring the sequel so they can replicate the first movie is your bet then your not on.........because that is what they are trying to do.
May the best man win.
Alien is my favorite movie in the franchise. I just don't believe they will discredit any of the remaining movie sequels. Because I'd love to get rid of Resurrection. I just don't believe you can.
Sure you can. It just depends on how bold they're feeling. Cameron took the series and changed it; CA can do the same thing in reverse. It doesn't mean people will like it or accept the game, but I'm not entirely sure CA cares about public opinion, because if they did, they'd just give the Aliens fans the game that they want. Instead, they're making the game that they want to play from the movie that they love, arguably more than Aliens because otherwise they'd be making an Aliens game, wouldn't they?
Making an Alien game and discrediting other iterations of the franchise are two separate things. I'd like to see them make an Alien 3 game. That doesn't mean they have to wipe out any of the extended lore of the franchise if they did.
Amanda Ripley = Aliens not discredited.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 09:12:39 PM
Making an Alien game and discrediting other iterations of the franchise are two separate things. I'd like to see them make an Alien 3 game. That doesn't mean they have to wipe out any of the extended lore of the franchise if they did.
But they can if they want to and personally I wouldn't mind, because I never much cared for Cameron's ideas.
@SM: I don't suppose you'd be the sort of person to entertain the possibility that CA would use Amanda from Aliens, but not the idea of the insect-like society, would you? On that note, where did they get the idea for Amanda? Can anyone confirm she was of Cameron's design, because if they pulled her out of the Alien character dossiers then her character has less to do with Aliens and more with the first film. The writers could chose to ignore the events in Aliens altogether if that were the case.
Also, Amanda's existence in this game has nothing to do with Aliens because Amanda was
dead when Aliens took place. I'd probably agree with you otherwise but she wasn't in the film and wasn't connected to anything that happened in it. She died before Ripley was found.
This game is set in a universe of four Alien films. Not just the first one.
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 05:01:58 PM
They aren't going to discount the other films though. You don't just discredit the most popular film in the franchise even if it isn't your favorite.
Cameron didn't discredit anything in Alien, he just didn't use what wasn't shown.
Cameron discredited plenty, he took the things he liked and omitted the things he didn't. I doubt there was any maniacal laughter (in public) or crashing thunder, but the roadmap was definitely altered thereafter. He had a very distinct view of what the Alien could and could not do, portrayed that pretty accurately concept to finished product.
The Queen and everything she represents is incontrovertibly taking the "insectoid" and turning it into literal "insect" by liberally smashing the viewer about the head and face screaming
SPACE ANT MOTHERf**kER DO YOU SPEAK IT at the top of one's lungs while making Heinlein wait in a soundproof room so one doesn't have their ass sued off. He tacitly admitted ripping off ST after Hurd outed him publicly on it.
Quotesingle
CA's license covers properties and likenesses from and for the entire Alien series, period, end of, full stop, 200 dollars.
@SM: If you're going to use that logic, you need say five and include Prometheus. The thing is, I don't agree with you. This project revolves around Alien, first and foremost. The acknowledgement of anything that occurs after Alien is not a requirement of the developers. God is not going to smite them down if they ignore Aliens, Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection, Prometheus, or the AvP films. There's also the novelizations and spin-off games. CA doesn't have to acknowledge those if they don't want to, so what cosmic force is binding them to kneel to Cameron's ideas concerning the beast? None. They can do what they want, and in this case, they can use Amanda and not have to pay homage to Aliens if they don't want to. One of the joys of being a developer is you can do what you want, kind of what like Cameron did when he made Aliens.
Now, you could make the argument that FOX is going to force CA not to discredit Aliens, but so far I haven't heard you say that...
Sorry, yes. You're correct. The universe it's set in does include Prometheus. Even if Alien3, Resurrection and Prometheus are never referenced.
@Xhan: I seem to recall Starship Troopers being required reading by the entire cast in Aliens. Beihn didn't read it because he was a re-cast who came in to replace the original actor.
Quote from: Xhan on May 03, 2014, 10:36:03 PM
Quote from: Kimarhi on May 03, 2014, 05:01:58 PM
They aren't going to discount the other films though. You don't just discredit the most popular film in the franchise even if it isn't your favorite.
Cameron didn't discredit anything in Alien, he just didn't use what wasn't shown.
Cameron discredited plenty, he took the things he liked and omitted the things he didn't. I doubt there was any maniacal laughter (in public) or crashing thunder, but the roadmap was definitely altered thereafter. He had a very distinct view of what the Alien could and could not do, portrayed that pretty accurately concept to finished product.
The Queen and everything she represents is incontrovertibly taking the "insectoid" and turning it into literal "insect" by liberally smashing the viewer about the head and face screaming SPACE ANT MOTHERf**kER DO YOU SPEAK IT at the top of one's lungs while making Heinlein wait in a soundproof room so one doesn't have their ass sued off. He tacitly admitted ripping off ST after Hurd outed him publicly on it.
Quotesingle
CA's license covers properties and likenesses from and for the entire Alien series, period, end of, full stop, 200 dollars.
I don't know that was his intention to discredit the original movie or just his take on the franchise. Ridley left the lifecycle open when he chose not to show the egg morphing. Had he not done that and then Cameron came in with the queen anyways I would feel differently.
QuoteSPACE ANT MOTHERf**kER DO YOU SPEAK IT
However, this quote is brilliant.
;D
I'm not saying he actively disparaged any particular motif, but he altered the path significantly and he literally transferred the power of the single Alien into an oversized version with a voodoo headress, which is a negative turn on the creature itself.
It removed any lovecraftian and otherworldly creepy motifs and relegated the Alien to "machine in the service of", and I don't think that can really be argued against, given that there's almost thirty years of SCREEE *blam* that followed after.
As good as Aliens is, it neutered the Alien as a force or vector.
Look at the game we have.
"We're gonna make the Alien scary again"
Yeah they made the Alien scary again by removing the ability to wield a counterthreat and deliberately gimping any means of doing so.
Aliens chopped his nards off, and now he's fat and lazy and licks himself all day, and the only reason he's scary in this slice of circumstance is that the player is cast in the role of quadraplegic 7 year old who's allergic to cats and is locked in a house where every room is connected to another room by stairs, and conveniently happens to be locked in said house with an antisocial bengal of Unusually Robust Size and Temperament.
lol
Point made!
On the appearance of the Alien in A:I, just wanted to point out that with the inclusion of Prometheus, all bets are out the window, since the origin can come from ANYWHERE, not just the usual planet, or something that's been hiking through space.
If you look at the continuity, Prometheus occurs before Alien, so the two would be historical, while Aliens, Alien3 and Alien:R would be unconnected at this point. On the assumption that they designed based on what the inworld characters would know, no one would be aware of what a Queen is, or what the actual lifecycle of the Alien would be, and I hope the game lets us find out.
For the topic of the lifecycle and contrast between the Queen and cocoon forms, I don't mean to throw fuel into the fire but if you recall, AVP2 introduced a third form of replication by the Predalien by physically using the inner mouth to implant embryos into the victims. Multiples of. So lifecycle can be as much a creation of the director as anything else, and what future directors down the line take for canon is up to them. The canon is flexible and evolving in that way.
However, I must point out that some comics and novels have clearly stated that the two forms of reproduction can take place, depending on the presence of a queen embryo, or if it has to grow into one. The Alien was stated to be able to evolve, after the Aliens films.
So Alien->Cocoon to get more Aliens->morph into Queen->Eggs
or
Queen egg->Queen embryo->Queen
Don't forget the black goo.
"We're inspired by the first film and whatever happened next doesn't really matter in a way. When we started out, I really wanted to make a story that was closely tied to that first film, so we could take advantage of the fiction."
- Ali Hope, Creative Lead on Alien: Isolation, GamesTM interview
Make of that what you will.
From the April issue of Hyper magazine:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FG3G9w9D.jpg&hash=e1af65d7f8fd941e0bc8764abbbcffc12da13d02)
I think that hiding from Aliens is nearly impossible ... maybe if someone distracts them or you're in another room but otherwise not .
I remember in the first AvP that I could see people's pheromones in the dark, clear as day. It made hiding totally impossible. However, for the sake of not dying over and over and over, I know that this will not be how the creature functions. They're going to balance it. If we're lucky they'll add additional difficulty modes to make the game even more challenging.
@Messugah: Hmm. It sounds like I might be right, after all, then.
Guys for the final time, this isn't based on the dumbass EU.
"We're inspired by the first film. You know the one where the Alien could see pheromones and auras and shit."
If that article is true, SM, we could be seeing a different version of the creature not seen since 1979, a star beast instead of a xenomorph. : )
Quote from: SM on May 06, 2014, 10:07:25 PM
"We're inspired by the first film. You know the one where the Alien could see pheromones and auras and shit."
When prompted you have to press a button to hold in your farts.
You have to mash it or a squeaker might escape.
Quote from: newbeing on May 06, 2014, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: SM on May 06, 2014, 10:07:25 PM
"We're inspired by the first film. You know the one where the Alien could see pheromones and auras and shit."
When prompted you have to press a button to hold in your farts.
That concept worked well enough in RE4. Take a peak at this article: http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/alien-isolation-hands-on-pc-gamer-vs-the-monster/ (http://www.pcgamer.com/previews/alien-isolation-hands-on-pc-gamer-vs-the-monster/)
The demo testers here explain that hiding in a locker doesn't work every time for various reasons, but mainly due to the fact that the creature is smart. Hiding in the locker isn't meant to work every time, won't save you if the creature sees you before you get into it, etc. I remember in Amnesia, your character would start to lose control as their sanity dwindled in the presence of the creature. I think a similar mechanic in A:I would be pretty awesome, if correctly implemented. Like I said, it worked in RE4. I just hope that it's more complicated and spontaneous and less static than the way it was featured in the Mass effect series. Something tells me that it will be more random and less predictable. If you listened to the interviews, you'd know that this creature doesn't have set patterns, so why would they have such a simple game mechanic that didn't behave in the same way?
Quote from: Xhan on May 04, 2014, 01:36:39 AM
I'm not saying he actively disparaged any particular motif, but he altered the path significantly and he literally transferred the power of the single Alien into an oversized version with a voodoo headress, which is a negative turn on the creature itself.
It removed any lovecraftian and otherworldly creepy motifs and relegated the Alien to "machine in the service of", and I don't think that can really be argued against, given that there's almost thirty years of SCREEE *blam* that followed after.
Well, there was a ship filled with eggs, right?
QuoteAs good as Aliens is, it neutered the Alien as a force or vector.
Look at the game we have.
"We're gonna make the Alien scary again"
Yeah they made the Alien scary again by removing the ability to wield a counterthreat and deliberately gimping any means of doing so.
Aliens chopped his nards off, and now he's fat and lazy and licks himself all day, and the only reason he's scary in this slice of circumstance is that the player is cast in the role of quadraplegic 7 year old who's allergic to cats and is locked in a house where every room is connected to another room by stairs, and conveniently happens to be locked in said house with an antisocial bengal of Unusually Robust Size and Temperament.
??? the first alien was taking on a bunch of space miners... they werent space ninjas.
They making the Alien scary again by taking it back to the original setup of it taking down a bunch of random average folk not prepared for this.
It wasn't even that the crew was ill-prepared. They had freakin' laser guns, which according to the Ridleygrams, would have been able to damage the alien.
The problem for the crew was solely that the Alien had acid for blood. It forced them to take on a very dangerous game of flushing the creature to the airlock.
The unstoppable menace thing is one element people really need to let go. The Alien was never, ever, intended to be regarded as "unstoppable" outside of the fact that shooting it would have killed the crew via decompression.
However, denying that Aliens didn't trigger an outlook change on the Alien is also false. People misinterpret the "bug" stuff in Aliens as anything but a foil. The comics were horrendous about this. The Aliens in Aliens were much closer to an oncoming storm. They attack en masse, and in huge waves that utterly destroy their target. They will over come whatever you throw at them, they will bypass your barriers. They will cut the power. Firepower doesn't help you, because there are more aliens than you can ever hope to shoot. You are outmatched, and help isn't coming.
Aliens is still a very tense movie. The fact that people took the macho aspects and ran with them instead of understanding what was truly going on in the film, is not Aliens' fault. Every firefight is a desperate fight for survival. The aliens are definitely not "just bugs."
Either way i'm glad that they're going back to basics and making a genuine horror game. It's long overdue. :)
It is impressive that a lot of us try to implement logic in the alien universe but I for one have given up on this a long time ago.
The continuity of this franchise both cinematically and through cannon has been beaten and raped like the fat guy in deliverance.
There are more than a handful of loop holes in the alien universe's plot line. Surely whether you can hide from an alien or not isn't worth more than 12 pages of consideration. Just hope for Burt Reynolds to come in and rescue the story with a bow and arrow.
Thanks to you we're onto 13.
How about a pistol as DLC you can hide but you can shoot the f**ka at the end of the game.
There's a pistol in the game already. You can try to shoot the bastard already. You'll likely get your face torn off and shown to you for your trouble, though. ;D
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 24, 2014, 07:49:32 PM
There's a pistol in the game already. You can try to shoot the bastard already. You'll likely get your face torn off and shown to you for your trouble, though. ;D
Wonder if gun fire hurts/damages the alien?
I doubt it'll do more than piss it off or drive it away for a short amount of time.
The gun also acts as an usable item, you have to draw it first. They've said that is to prevent the game from having an FPS feeling.
well for one it would be different and better because for once you have to survive and hide instead of going around shooting aliens,facehuuggers,etc. That's really cool though the only aliens game I can recall close to this is the one level in colonial marines "the Raven" where you have to avoid those boiler aliens. This would probably attract more people to it as long as it doesn't pull one of those it looks like a awesome game and turns out to be crap. But the screenshots and trailer make it look good.
I think that it's impossible to hide from ALIEN, because he has much better sensors than human eyes.
However, "Alien: Isolation" is only a game. Entertainment.
My "Ripley Edition" is on the way ;)
You can hide from a perfect organism?
Apparently.
The queen seemed quite capable of tracking Newt's movements.
I don't think it's any l33t skillz to be able to see through a grill.
I watched newer gameplay.
The Queen could see Newt because you could see somewhat through the grills. In the new gameplay I watched the player was under the floor and you can see up through the grill to see the alien that could see down through the floor and the alien went into speed mode into the vents, at first it seemed the alien was gone, but then the player got got as the alien found it's way under the floor knowing exactly where the player was.
QuoteThe Queen could see Newt because you could see somewhat through the grills.
That and the Queen saw where she went.
So that isn't strong evidence of alien telepathy?
Quote from: OpenMaw on Jun 12, 2014, 12:54:29 AM
It wasn't even that the crew was ill-prepared. They had freakin' laser guns, which according to the Ridleygrams, would have been able to damage the alien.
The problem for the crew was solely that the Alien had acid for blood. It forced them to take on a very dangerous game of flushing the creature to the airlock.
The unstoppable menace thing is one element people really need to let go. The Alien was never, ever, intended to be regarded as "unstoppable" outside of the fact that shooting it would have killed the crew via decompression.
However, denying that Aliens didn't trigger an outlook change on the Alien is also false. People misinterpret the "bug" stuff in Aliens as anything but a foil. The comics were horrendous about this. The Aliens in Aliens were much closer to an oncoming storm. They attack en masse, and in huge waves that utterly destroy their target. They will over come whatever you throw at them, they will bypass your barriers. They will cut the power. Firepower doesn't help you, because there are more aliens than you can ever hope to shoot. You are outmatched, and help isn't coming.
Aliens is still a very tense movie. The fact that people took the macho aspects and ran with them instead of understanding what was truly going on in the film, is not Aliens' fault. Every firefight is a desperate fight for survival. The aliens are definitely not "just bugs."
Either way i'm glad that they're going back to basics and making a genuine horror game. It's long overdue. :)
Well said!