James Cameron Talks Alien: Covenant

Started by Pvt. Himmel, Jan 27, 2017, 06:45:47 PM

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James Cameron Talks Alien: Covenant (Read 33,280 times)

Perfect-Organism

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 31, 2017, 06:13:41 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 31, 2017, 04:49:57 AM
Saying he's a hypocrite for saying one particular franchise is run down, while still working on his own, is asinine and grossly misunderstands what hypocrisy is. He's not saying "The Alien franchise is run down" while making an Alien movie. That would be hypocrisy. Nor is he saying "All sequels are stupid/pointless/whatever". That would also be hypocrisy.

I'm in the same boat. I don't see the hypocrisy. He clearly had some definite ideas for a cohesive vision for the 'Avatar' series and is going to try and do something about it. The 'Alien' films are very different. There was no one world-building vision, just lots of different people getting hired to make their own differing contributions.

One series has a proverbial shepard in the process of steering it in a particular direction. The other never did and its integrity has suffered as a consequence.

This is exactly why an alternative telling of the story IMO is justified (read retcon).  It's not like doing that would trample over some sacred vision of the author.  If you were to take the Harry Potter series and try to retcon a section, I'd say that's unjustified, but the Aliens series?  Anything goes (as long as it's not Alien or Aliens).  I agree with Cameron that those two films are the primary building blocks of the series.

whiterabbit

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Jan 31, 2017, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: Xenomorphine on Jan 31, 2017, 06:13:41 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 31, 2017, 04:49:57 AM
Saying he's a hypocrite for saying one particular franchise is run down, while still working on his own, is asinine and grossly misunderstands what hypocrisy is. He's not saying "The Alien franchise is run down" while making an Alien movie. That would be hypocrisy. Nor is he saying "All sequels are stupid/pointless/whatever". That would also be hypocrisy.

I'm in the same boat. I don't see the hypocrisy. He clearly had some definite ideas for a cohesive vision for the 'Avatar' series and is going to try and do something about it. The 'Alien' films are very different. There was no one world-building vision, just lots of different people getting hired to make their own differing contributions.

One series has a proverbial shepard in the process of steering it in a particular direction. The other never did and its integrity has suffered as a consequence.

This is exactly why an alternative telling of the story IMO is justified (read retcon).  It's not like doing that would trample over some sacred vision of the author.  If you were to take the Harry Potter series and try to retcon a section, I'd say that's unjustified, but the Aliens series?  Anything goes (as long as it's not Alien or Aliens).  I agree with Cameron that those two films are the primary building blocks of the series.
I know it's not a big deal but just what if that is the reason for Cameron's declaration of "including my own Aliens, which was the legitimate sequel and, I think, the proper heir to his film. I sort of did it as a fanboy. I wanted to honor his film, but also say what I needed to say. After that, I don't take any responsibility." I mean it sure sounds like something is getting retcon, we all assume it's AlienĀ³ and A|R but Ridley and Cameron are friends, what if Ridley told Cameron that he is going to retcon Aliens too?

Perfect-Organism

That would be the Jack..

D. Compton Ambrose

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 31, 2017, 09:07:11 AM
Quote from: SiL on Jan 31, 2017, 04:49:57 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 31, 2017, 03:25:42 AM
But that's what everyone does. Cameron isn't above the criticism because you think us "everloving f**k people" don't honestly believe he put his foot squarely into his own mouth.
Saying he's a hypocrite for saying one particular franchise is run down, while still working on his own, is asinine and grossly misunderstands what hypocrisy is. He's not saying "The Alien franchise is run down" while making an Alien movie. That would be hypocrisy. Nor is he saying "All sequels are stupid/pointless/whatever". That would also be hypocrisy.
Oh boy, not this again. No one sai... you know what, forget it. Better off having a cup of tea with the aliens.

I wouldn't say that he is a hypocrite - but I will say this, if - say - Neill Blomkamp made his Aliens movie, with Ripley, Hicks and Newt, and it was good, or looked good (he'd need to change some things, in my opinion) - Jim would quite likely throw up his hands and be like, "fine." It is quite obvious from his comments that he was referring to Blomkamp's film, he's obviously got misgivings about it.

SiL

SiL

#169
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 31, 2017, 09:07:11 AM
Oh boy, not this again. No one sai... you know what, forget it. Better off having a cup of tea with the aliens.
That's what that particular video is implying with the "Cameron trashes sequels while making sequels" comment at the beginning, then asking if he should shut up about sequels at the end.

People can criticise Cameron's comments, but the "lol he's making sequels he should shut up about sequels" shit is dumb.

NickisSmart

It by itself, perhaps. But is it completely necessary to make 4-5 Avatar sequels, in tandem? He's saying the Alien series is out of steam, and here he is putting all his chips on the table for a series that really isn't a series, yet, just a single film. Furthermore, the writing for that film was so bland and heavy handed, I can't imagine there being 1 or 2 sequels, let alone 4 or 5.

The man can say what he wants, and the fact that he's making sequels in and of itself has nothing to do with my skepticism . I don't think his question is without merit, but again, barring Prometheus, the last Alien film was made in 1997, right? It's been awhile. It's not like Cameron, himself, who's planning on churning one of these Avatar films out every two years without questioning his own motives under the same light, or the rumors behind him resurrecting the Terminator series, after many sub-par outings (all of which I enjoyed, on some level).

I just don't understand his question, given his own actions.

Is anything necessary? Gee, I don't know, Cameron. Ask that question of Shakespeare filmmakers, or Jane Austen nuts. TO them, it certainly is, because they enjoy it, just like you apparently enjoy making Avatar films. It just seems like a rhetorical question what's generated some friction from people who are more invested in the Alien series than Cameron is. Frankly I don't think he cares very much about anything except his own projects, right now, and merely offers Ridley some respect, regardless, because the man is his predecessor and a trailblazer.

whiterabbit

Quote from: SiL on Feb 01, 2017, 01:20:30 AM
Quote from: whiterabbit on Jan 31, 2017, 09:07:11 AM
Oh boy, not this again. No one sai... you know what, forget it. Better off having a cup of tea with the aliens.
That's what that particular video is implying with the "Cameron trashes sequels while making sequels" comment at the beginning, then asking if he should shut up about sequels at the end.

People can criticise Cameron's comments, but the "lol he's making sequels he should shut up about sequels" shit is dumb.
I don't want to argue about stupid to be honest. Arguing about "internet opinion" is like pissing xenomorph blood into the wind.

I have no interest in Avatar. That of course can change, I might even like it. Still sticking with my "foot in da mouth" opinion.

SiL

SiL

#172
There have been six Alien movies after the original, including his own. Ignoring his own, that's five films to look at and say, "You know what? Maybe there's not much left in it."

That's where the question is coming from. Avatar has no sequels. There's everywhere for it to go, for now. That'll shrink after each movie. But for now it's an open slate and he can put whatever creativity he wants into it.

The Alien films have already got a long history of increasingly disappointing films, with one uptick right at the end. It's fine to ask if this particular franchise, with its track record, has much left in it, while working on something that is otherwise fresh.

OpenMaw

I wonder if SiL and SM are sometimes part Vulcan with all their logic and wisdom.

/thread


NickisSmart

NickisSmart

#174
I wouldn't call them wise for saying Avatar is "fresh." '"Yes, guv." My ass!'

The number of a series isn't always important, versus content. The Alien universe, to me, is a lot more interesting than Avatar. I can't stand the lore and writing in that film. I don't care if it's the first film in the series. That doesn't mean anything. Neither doesn't Covenant being at the end of a long-running series. Hell, just look at James Bond. Been around for over 50 years and still making good films.

SiL

SiL

#175
It's fresh in that there is one film and almost endless possibilities.  It's not wise,  but it is common sense. Whether you're personally more interested in one or the other is entirely irrelevant.

The Alien movie have been consistently OK at best and terrible at worst for over two decades now.  Asking whether there's much point in continuing is fine.  Even a lot of fans think they should give it a rest.

Covenant might turn it around.  Might not. But for now, the track record is looking pretty miserable.

SM

SM

#176
QuoteI wouldn't call them wise

That's okay.  I wouldn't call you smart.

NickisSmart

NickisSmart

#177
I know that I am, regardless of what you think. Unlike you, I don't need qualification from others. "Oh, look at me! I have a ridiculously high post count and stars next to my name!" Big whoop.

And how do you get "endless possibilities" from Avatar? It's such a derivative, cliched, boring film. The only promising thing about it that has me looking forward to anything it could produce is merely the technological aspects that it trailblazed. That's it. Idea-wise, it's a dry well off the get-go.

SiL

SiL

#178
Because there's one film and plenty of options for stories to tell.  We saw relatively little of the planet.  We saw effectively nothing of humanity beyond the settlement. There's as much space to grow as there was with Alien in 1979.

You might not be interested,  but again,  that's not the least bit relevant. Plenty of people didn't give a shit  about Alien,  look where we are now.

SM

SM

#179
Quote from: NickisSmart on Feb 01, 2017, 04:51:37 AM
I know that I am, regardless of what you think. Unlike you, I don't need qualification from others. "Oh, look at me! I have a ridiculously high post count and stars next to my name!" Big whoop.

:laugh:
How sad.

QuoteAnd how do you get "endless possibilities" from Avatar? It's such a derivative, cliched, boring film. The only promising thing about it that has me looking forward to anything it could produce is merely the technological aspects that it trailblazed. That's it. Idea-wise, it's a dry well off the get-go.

FYI - I'm not SiL, Herr isSmart, so I didn't say Avatar was "fresh" in the first place.  However, in this instance it's an appropriate adjective.  As I've said earlier, I found Avatar painfully predictable - but it could literally go anywhere with sequels and with the box office popularity of the first one, making sequels is pretty *ahem* smart.

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