Character family dynamic?

Started by NickisSmart, Mar 17, 2015, 01:07:59 PM

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Character family dynamic? (Read 4,240 times)

Born Of Cold Light

Trailer C used the "We have no weapons of any kind?" line, so it's not like they were promising gun battles.

CainsSon

CainsSon

#31
Its also not like there is NO action in ALIEN 3. There is certainly a lot more than there is in ALIEN.

windebieste

windebieste

#32
Embrace wholesome family values. 

Bring on PG13 rating. 

Sell the franchise to Disney. 

-Windebieste.

NickisSmart

NickisSmart

#33
Why are family values considered a bad thing? If you think about in, there was plenty of family values in Aliens: Newt and her parents, Ripley and her daughter, Amanda; Drake and Vasquez' implied relationship; even the Queen and her eggs, and the cat fight at the end between both mothers, something very intentionally put into the film.

Family dynamic and relationships is a pretty strong theme and it doesn't have to be anything less than R. Kyle Reese and Sarah Connor had a relationship (albeit a short-lived one) and that film is as R-rated as they come. Conan and Valeria in Conan the Barbarian have a relationship -- again, very R-rated film. Oh, and in that one, Conan's family dies in the beginning but it makes sense because the villain of the film is directly responsible and it fuels Conan's quest for vengeance! The alien in Alien 3 wasn't directly responsible. Sure, the alien of the hugger started a fire which caused the life module to eject, but in theory that shouldn't have killed anyone. In that film, the main culprit was deacceleration trauma and bad luck. The alien wasn't responsible; Ripley wasn't avenging Newt and Hicks by killing it.

Alien³

Alien³

#34
Quote from: NickisSmart on Mar 19, 2015, 09:46:59 AM
Why are family values considered a bad thing?

Because we've seen it done already in Aliens, and done perfectly. This new film should bring something new to the table.

Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Mar 19, 2015, 01:29:46 AM
It would be really inhuman to ignore the whole family angle. This is why Alien 3 had such a poor reception.  No offence.  Don't underestimate the value of family.

No one is underestimating the value of family and I agree Aliens played that angle perfectly so why do/did we need a repeat of it?

Alien 3 is a movie about death, a very up front one too, its something we all must face. Didn't you get the memo? :P

HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#35
Quote from: Alien³ on Mar 19, 2015, 10:10:55 AMBecause we've seen it done already in Aliens, and done perfectly. This new film should bring something new to the table.

Yeah, this. I really don't wanna see a retread of Aliens. Don't get me wrong, Aliens is literally my all-time, number one, favourite movie ever, but in a way that's why I like that the existing Alien 3 pulled a 180 and did something different. I worry the new film is just going to be a copycat in a lot of ways. Because it will almost certainly never live up to Cameron's movie.

Alien³

Alien³

#36
And its downfall would be a lot of folks comparing it to Cameron's...actually they've been doing that with Alien 3 since '92, even though its a completely different story. People are strange. :laugh:


HuDaFuK

HuDaFuK

#37
I'm worried we'll get another Terminator 3. That would be a perfectly competent movie on it's own terms. But it's such an inept remake of the vastly superior preceding film that it ends up being far, far worse than the sum of its parts.

Alien³

Alien³

#38
It won't be as bad as T3 I'm sure but it has a lot of potential to be stale.

whiterabbit

whiterabbit

#39
I don't think Alien 5 will be compared to Cameron's Aliens as it will be compared against Alien3, unless the movie is actually that good. T3 is a fine movie except that it was made by a guy that didn't care about the franchise or even bothered to watch the previous movies apparently... however T3 good is not going to cut it. Alien 5 better be awesome.

NickisSmart

NickisSmart

#40
Edit; Other family dynamics in R-rated films. Castor Troy and his brother. Mickey and Malory in Natural Born Killers. The Seth Brothers in From Dusk Til Dawn. The Gorch brothers in The Wild Bunch.

You guys can want whatever your hearts desire. I don't want a straight retread of Aliens, either,  and in my opinion, I disliked that film's family dynamic in how it was shoved down our throats. That being said, I also don't want a retread of Alien 3, either. I don't want some bleak, boring lesson about death. If that's your cuppa, that's great, but I want something of a marriage of several ideas:

1. Subtler family dynamics. I don't want it obviously state that Ripley is a widow and a mother without her children and Newt is the obvious surrogate. It doesn't have to be as subtle as Alien, which only hints at Ripley's maternal instincts with the cat and her sexual desires with Captain Dallas; but I don't want it shoved down my throat like in Aliens, which spends too much time on the idea and takes it way too far. In other words, I want something different, but in terms of balance. The ideas themselves are fine. It's how they're distributed that concerns me. Ripley can care about rescuing Newt. I just don't want it to become the focus of the film.

2. Longevity of Interesting Characters. I want the dynamic to last long enough for me to care. In other words, no immediate, shock-value lessons on death. Lessons on death are fine, but you can't kill off the interesting characters in the beginning. Why not? Because it leaves the movie without interesting characters! Forget lessons on death. Without anyone interesting to provide them, the lessons themselves feel boring and pointless. Alien 3 and Alien 4 in particular killed off their best cast members way too early, and the survivors are so boring that when they die, I just don't care. Imagine if, in Aliens, the marines took two dropships onto the planet, one with Ripley and the no-name marines, and one with Hicks, Vasquez, Hudson, Apone, and every other character with the slightest bit of development. While landing, one of the ships crashes and burns -- the one with all the marines with character development. As a result, Ripley is left to carry the film herself, with all of the other marines basically nameless, boring fodder. Just like Alien 3.

Alien 3 may be a lesson in death, but look at Alien or Aliens. People die in those films, but I care more when they kick the bucket than Hicks and Newt dying in Alien 3. Both films demonstrate that people die. But one doesn't leave me feeling like I'm watching a poor executed version of the same lesson. It's not that Hicks and Newt died that bothered me. It's when they died that bothered me and who replaced them.

3. No beating over the head. I hated the pastor's speech in Alien 3. No time for speeches when you're being hunted, but let's inspire the troops, anyways. Parker said it best (and much quicker): "I ain't for drawing any goddamn straws. I'm for killin' that goddamn thing right now!" Brevity is the soul of wit, and big speeches drag the pace of the film down. There's a time and a place for, but if you want to build tension -- arguably a very important mechanic in the Alien series -- you need to keep the gum-flapping short and sweet. Keep the film moving and don't stop to verbally beat ideas over our heads that can be interpreted through the physical actions of characters. Of course, sermons in real life bore me to tears. The effect was no less pulse-stopping in Alien 3.


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