Which film do you prefer Predator 2 or Aliens?

[SiL]

100%. I give it a pass because Gary Busey chews enough scenery in that scene alone to fully set dress three independent features and I love it.

[SM]

With those teeth, he can't help it.

[razeak]

Personally I think x 11 is more accurate. 

I would pick Aliens obviously, but I would also point outt if I was flipping through channels and both were on, it would be possible I would watch Predator 2. I never had much issue with it. It definitely has a pacing issue.

[SM]

Well 11 is like, one louder, innit?

[razeak]

I think ST and Aliens are a very superficial comparison. There are some noticeable influences.

Replicating the motion tracker moments just a few short years later is indeed a rip off.  It was a good rip off at least.

[Voodoo Magic]

"x 10" lol

Well that was constructive.

SM was talking about a specific scene being lifted wholesale.

And I was talking the bug hunting Colonial Marines.

Your response to this was that this could be applied "x10" to Starship Troopers. If you can please point out a single scene -- let alone ten -- where this is the case, that would actually address the point I made.

I don't think anyone would really interpret here that I was referring to a quantity of 10 Aliens scenes, just when looking how meaningful the copying, lifting, borrowing was to the identity of each respective film,  and in through that prism to me, Aliens was ten times more egregious.

Beyond the concept of "space marines fight space insects" there's nothing terribly substantial in the comparison. Starship Troopers isn't even about fighting space insects, it's about growing through the ranks of the fascistic space military, who happen to be fighting bugs (amongst other things, such as the Skinnies).

Yet on it's surface the book is about war and troopers that hunt and kill bugs, and those troopers is what Cameron lifted and made Colonial Marines.

Don't get me wrong, nobody would argue Aliens is a pure, unique, utterly original film (and if they do, they're seriously misinformed or deluding themselves). Hell, the plot is beat-for-beat a retread of Alien.

But this isn't about taking concepts ("I didn't steal Alien from anyone; I stole it from everyone" - Dan O'Bannon), it's about lifting scenes.

Also worth noting:

I don't give a crap, I love Predator 2, it's just that the claim that the accusation of scene stealing can be labelled at Aliens x10 relative to Starship Troopers is just wrong.

And I disagree with you, which is perfectly okay. 

Neither what Cameron did or the Thomas did bothers me to be frank. I deeply love both Aliens and Predator 2. But since this a thread of comparing the two, if one comes up, I'll always bring up the other. Again, stones thrown from glass houses to me...

[razeak]

I don't think he lifted the CM directly from ST (orbital drops for sure though, but logically, everyone doing sci-fi and troops is going to have a way to get troops on planet and it's going to be similar). They are an amalgamation. Vietnam was very fresh in everyone's minds. Hell, in the area I live it's still a common point of reference.

[Voodoo Magic]

I believe I'm recollecting correctly that years ago in Starlog or one of those magazines James Cameron already admited he lifted those elements from Starship Troopers. But lifted wasn't the word he used.  He called ST of his influences I think. Something like that. 



Here's a quote razeak courtesy of Strange Shapes (but the quote I'm remembering is much older than 2009  )

"[Read] Starship Troopers if you want to see where Aliens was inspired," Cameron said in 2009.

Of course, giving the actors Starship Troopers novels to read is a big tell on its own. 

[SM]

I think ST and Aliens are a very superficial comparison. There are some noticeable influences.

Replicating the motion tracker moments just a few short years later is indeed a rip off.  It was a good rip off at least.

The use of motion trackers was Cameron taking the concept from Alien and changing and adapting it to his story.  It wasn't just a painfully blatant copy.

[SiL]

I don't think anyone would really interpret here that I was referring to a quantity of 10 Aliens scenes, just when looking how meaningful the copying, lifting, borrowing was to the identity of each respective film,  and in through that prism to me, Aliens was ten times more egregious.

Considering you were responding to a comment about a specific scene being lifted, sure they'd interpret it like that. Responding with "well, conceptually..."  is shifting the goal posts.

And I disagree with you, which is perfectly okay. 

Disagree with what

That the comparison isn't substantial? That Aliens isn't unique? Or that it doesn't lift any scenes directly? Because those are the three points you're replying to there.

[Samhain13]

I see the similarity between the 2 scenes as another foreshadowing that these franchises are meant to be together.

[Voodoo Magic]

I don't think anyone would really interpret here that I was referring to a quantity of 10 Aliens scenes, just when looking how meaningful the copying, lifting, borrowing was to the identity of each respective film,  and in through that prism to me, Aliens was ten times more egregious.

Considering you were responding to a comment about a specific scene being lifted, sure they'd interpret it like that. Responding with "well, conceptually..."  is shifting the goal posts.

And I disagree with you, which is perfectly okay. 

Disagree with what

That the comparison isn't substantial? That Aliens isn't unique? Or that it doesn't lift any scenes directly? Because those are the three points you're replying to there.

Ah. SiL's back. Thee SiL. I've been wondering where you've been.

I see the similarity between the 2 scenes as another foreshadowing that these franchises are meant to be together.

Huh. I never thought of that. Seriously, that's pretty fascinating Samhain.

The film does feature an Alien skull...

[SiL]

I don't think anyone would really interpret here that I was referring to a quantity of 10 Aliens scenes, just when looking how meaningful the copying, lifting, borrowing was to the identity of each respective film,  and in through that prism to me, Aliens was ten times more egregious.

Considering you were responding to a comment about a specific scene being lifted, sure they'd interpret it like that. Responding with "well, conceptually..."  is shifting the goal posts.

And I disagree with you, which is perfectly okay. 

Disagree with what

That the comparison isn't substantial? That Aliens isn't unique? Or that it doesn't lift any scenes directly? Because those are the three points you're replying to there.

Ah. SiL's back. Thee SiL. I've been wondering where you've been.

Wait, what? Why are you suddenly making this personal

I'm just asking for clarification, why on Earth would you even think to deflect with an ad hominem attack?

[SM]

Quelle surprise.

[Local Trouble]

How is this even a poll?