Why did Ridley change the story?

Started by Mrengineer, Sep 06, 2020, 09:05:22 AM

Author
Why did Ridley change the story? (Read 8,966 times)

SM

SM

#15
Riddles, Costigan, Huffam, Lindelof, Spaihts, Ellenberg, Giler, Hill, Scheafer, Ireland, Kelly, Paglen, Logan, Harper, Green?

Or someone at Disney?

I'd be surprised if "they" didn't know.  I'd also be surprised if "they" gave a shit.

Local Trouble

This is why we need you in Hollywood.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#17
Quote from: Samhain13 on Sep 06, 2020, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: Mrengineer on Sep 06, 2020, 09:05:22 AM
This has baffled me for years...did he retcon Prometheus?

Kind of. During the making of Covenant I think he had another one of his brain farts and well that happened.

Quote from: T Dog on Sep 06, 2020, 01:33:47 PM

Because he's old and doesn't know what the f**k he's doing story wise.

This is a bit uncharitable. It isn't that his brain doesn't work, or that he is somehow inept as a filmmaker or story teller, he cares about creating thought provoking, visually stunning cinema, that's his art form. He works collaboratively with the fellow artists he gathers together for a production and he doesn't have the same slavish devotion or reverence for previous works that we have. His style is somewhat improvisational, subject to change on the whim of inspiration and if something is stunning visually he couldn't give a damn if it is incompatible with something that has come before. This is fundamentally different to the meticulously ordered style that Cameron has for example and its a style that allows a great deal of artistic freedom to the designers he employs.

Look at the Seven Worlds shorts that he did for Hennessy. What is the story logic here? There isn't any, and there doesn't need to be, at least not in anyway that takes precedence over the visual storytelling and the feelings he's trying to evoke. His films relating to Alien, by necessity, need to have a bit more form, but he still operates primarily from a place of Art leading story, and not working within the boundaries established by anyone else's work or even in some cases his own.

It's not that he doesn't know how to create a film, clearly he does, he just doesn't care about making films in the way some of us may like or want, he makes films the way he wants and the studio tries to rein him in for the purposes of their franchise.

Mrengineer

Mrengineer

#18
Quote from: Evanus on Sep 06, 2020, 03:59:34 PM
I don't really agree - the black goo adds an extra layer of mysteriousness, if anything. Sure, it's a bit of a McGuffin, but I like how they kept it vague in the sense that we don't know where it came from and why it creates all these horrible xenomorph-esque creatures and mutations. I think they did it on purpose to keep the true origin a mystery.

There in lies one of my issues. Its clear that the DNA goo gave birth to life on earth. However, it's clear when mixed in different ways, there are mutations. If the first alien were the creatures that burst out from the Engineers, and who they were running from, the 2nd alien was then the big face hugger from elizabeth shaw. and the 3rd alien was the xeno looking alien that gave birth from the engineer.

That still doesn't connect up to anything in Covenant unless it was David who simply refined the aliens, but Ridley pitched it as David creating the entire species...which  he didn't. I heard the 3rd movie was going to be about the Engineers chasing David and the rest of the humans to get revenge. Covnenant to be , whilst an amazing film itself, felt like Ridley was just forgetting Prometheus in most ways


Quote from: SM on Sep 06, 2020, 11:19:41 PM
The only things he 'retconned' - for lack of a better word - was the Jockey being a dead skeleton and the Derelict being very old.  And since neither of those things are properly established on screen, they're open to being reinterpreted.

Which Jockey and Derelict are you referring to? The LV223 or LV246? I don't think any of those items were covered in Prometheus or Covenant. I believe they were hundreds of years apart no?


Quote from: SpaceKase on Sep 07, 2020, 02:05:15 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Sep 06, 2020, 12:33:25 PM
Quote from: Mrengineer on Sep 06, 2020, 09:05:22 AM
This has baffled me for years...did he retcon Prometheus?

Kind of. During the making of Covenant I think he had another one of his brain farts and well that happened.

Quote from: T Dog on Sep 06, 2020, 01:33:47 PM

Because he's old and doesn't know what the f**k he's doing story wise.

This is a bit uncharitable. It isn't that his brain doesn't work, or that he is somehow inept as a filmmaker or story teller, he cares about creating thought provoking, visually stunning cinema, that's his art form. He works collaboratively with the fellow artists he gathers together for a production and he doesn't have the same slavish devotion or reverence for previous works that we have. His style is somewhat improvisational, subject to change on the whim of inspiration and if something is stunning visually he couldn't give a damn if it is incompatible with something that has come before. This is fundamentally different to the meticulously ordered style that Cameron has for example and its a style that allows a great deal of artistic freedom to the designers he employs.

Look at the Seven Worlds shorts that he did for Hennessy. What is the story logic here? There isn't any, and there doesn't need to be, at least not in anyway that takes precedence over the visual storytelling and the feelings he's trying to evoke. His films relating to Alien, by necessity, need to have a bit more form, but he still operates primarily from a place of Art leading story, and not working within the boundaries established by anyone else's work or even in some cases his own.

It's not that he doesn't know how to create a film, clearly he does, he just doesn't care about making films in the way some of us may like or want, he makes films the way he wants and the studio tries to rein him in for the purposes of their franchise.

In theory, that sounds beeautiful and I love Ridley Scotts visual story telling. However, a story still needs cohesion. Alien is his baby, but one can't go around changing things due to inspiration, it does not help the audience nor the credibility of the story.

Prometheus and Covenant remain one of my favourite films of all time. However, the sheer confusion and change of story line in both movies, doesn't really help the concept of "suspending disbelief". You immediately unsuspend yourself, and start asking questions you shouldn't really be asking. Both movies are amazing...but the stories just don't add up...and the story it self is what makes it terrifying. I'd be keen to see how he ties it all together in the next movie, of which he said he's in planning stages for.

SM

SM

#19
LV-426.  Prior to the prequels everyone thought that the Jockey was the skeleton of some extraterrestrial, rather than a guy in a suit (because that's how it was written).

There's 28 years between Prometheus and Alien.

Kimarhi

Kimarhi

#20
It's time to cut Riddles loose.





Mrengineer

Quote from: SM on Sep 07, 2020, 02:57:10 AM
LV-426.  Prior to the prequels everyone thought that the Jockey was the skeleton of some extraterrestrial, rather than a guy in a suit (because that's how it was written).

There's 28 years between Prometheus and Alien.

I didn't realise people connected LV426 with the other place. I don't see the connection. What is it?

SiL

SiL

#22
You're being facetious, surely?

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#23
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 06, 2020, 11:33:53 PM
Are you at liberty to divulge whether or not they're at least aware that some of Ridley's decisions have been divisive or downright unpopular?
If you mean Fox/Disney, yes they are aware (and they aren't thrilled with the changes themselves) but they're ultimately leaving it up to Ridley to possibly course-correct in the third movie. So it has less to do with whether FOX(Disney) knows/cares (they are), but whether Ridley does.


Nightmare Asylum

Honestly, I'm still reluctant to believe that Disney/20th Century Studios has any intention of even giving Ridley a third film. They might be playing along a bit right now, since he's currently working for them on The Last Duel and it is a nice little bargaining for both parties to keep on the cards for the future, but whether anything ever comes out of that is another question entirely.

I don't think the studio has any real desire to tackle Alien at all in the next few years. They didn't even give Walter Hill's concept a look, from what I understand. I bet they are going to let it sit for another five or so years, distance itself from Prometheus and Alien: Covenant, and then bring in a J.J. Abrams-type to do a soft reboot that doesn't knock anything out of continuity, but also doesn't really reference anything beyond Alien and Aliens and ultimately serves as a loose retelling of those two films from a new perspective in the way that The Force Awakens "updated" the story of A New Hope.

Immortan Jonesy

Can you imagine Disney hiring J.J Abrams to make the next Alien movie?  ;D

Nightmare Asylum

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Sep 07, 2020, 07:59:40 PM
Can you imagine Disney hiring J.J Abrams to make the next Alien movie?  ;D

Yes. :-[

Evanus

Evanus

#27

Immortan Jonesy

He could bring an old friend from the redemption zone.


Kimarhi

Kimarhi

#29
J.J. sells tickets.  When you are a mega corporation you look at that shit first. 

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