Prey Producer Talks Franchise Future and Possible New AVP Film!

[Kradan]

In the interest of actually providing thoughts and not just saying "no, not like that":

How to make it less one sided:

Understand their different hunting approaches and play with it.

Predators hunt like humans - lures, artificial camouflage, specialised weapons.

Aliens hunt like animals - lying in wait, stalking, attacks of opportunity.

Predators like high vantage points and open space to move around. They attack from above, often wounding at range but will come in for the kill.

Aliens like enclosed spaces, tight environments, attacking from any direction but from close proximity.

Give a location that allows both to be in their element - and have each try to draw the other to their home turf. Predators lose advantages when they are enclosed, Aliens are susceptible to being shot in the open.

Minimise wrestling matches. This isn't WWE. Let them stalk and hunt each other. The last act of Predator should be used as reference - cat and mouse tit for tat, but the Predator is now in Dutch's shoes.

Predators should try to keep Aliens at a distance. The problem is Aliens are really good at closing that distance, without them knowing. See also, getting the Predators into tight spaces.

Both creatures can always see each other. Invisibility means nothing to Aliens, Predators have multiple vision modes. Distance and visual obstruction are necessary for both to effectively stalk the other. The Alien wins out here with its preference for tight spaces.

Hand to hand fights should be short, brutal, and in the Alien's favour. They're both strong, but Aliens have the advantage of not giving a f**k. They're unrestrained, while the Predator is worrying about acid blood.

Predators want trophies. This should disadvantage them as they try to not just shoot everything in the head.

Predators like to get in close for the kill after maiming from a distance - this should be a mistake.

A Predator vs more than one Alien in an enclosed space is a dead Predator unless some serious effort is put into the fight choreography. And not without serious injury to the Predator.

The longer the hunt goes, the worse it gets for the Predators. Damaged or depleted weapons, wounds, exhaustion. Aliens don't tire and they heal quickly.

Goddammit, when are you gonna direct this thing !?

[OpenMaw]

I don't really think there's a continuity where the Alien isn't known to the Predator's generally. Maybe they're really rare, and it's not like in the comics where Predators have aliens... But Predator 2 fairly certainly, at least in my mind, negates that chance.

However, having that moment where the Predator doesn't know, and the Alien doesn't know.. and they both have that "Whoa... What? What are you?" moment could be a very dramatic moment. Similar to that moment in Terminator 2 when T-800 and T-1000 first engage each other and they have that "gridlocK" moment.

And yeah, that would be for the one movie that you could take advantage of those things, but... Let's be real if there is a relight for the AVP franchise, where they actually get it right... It's from square one. The Paul Anderson and Strause movies won't be under considering. At least, not by my estimation. I'm not saying it will be a reboot, but it will not consider their parameters on itself. It will be AVP again, not AVP 3. So why not have the Alien and Predator not expecting to intermingle in the first film, and then have the second film up the stakes ala Aliens and Predator 2. Have the big battle between the two species later. Have the first one be about the personal test of mettle, will, skill, and capabilities of one another.

Also I don't know that I agree that the Predator only has a couple of things to really know. I think we don't even really know everything about the Alien. Its danger is in the unpredictable nature of the creature.

On the flipside, I think the Predator as a character is full of wild cards. Again, down to the personality any given writer wants to play with. Young, old? Fast, slow? Considerate, aggressive? Rookie, experienced? All of these parameters can dramatically play with how the battles go.

[SiL]

The only time an Alien was like "what are you?" was the original cut off Brett's death and Jonesy. They just kill. They really don't give a shit.

I'm not saying Predators would know everything - just everything they need to.

 As @Local Trouble  likes  to say, a competently lead group of human soldiers is more than enough to wipe out an Alien infestation. Predators are seasoned hunters. They'd get it pretty quickly.

If we're going to talk about not treating the Aliens like crap, let's not just flip the script and start ignoring the Predators' strengths.

[OpenMaw]

If we're going to talk about not treating the Aliens like crap, let's not just flip the script and start ignoring the Predators' strengths.

Oh I agree. I don't think having the alien be a surprise to the Predator necessarily means it has to be putting him at a disadvantage. I think the real nugget of wisdom there is whatever an AVP film chooses to do, it has to be honest about the characters. Alien, Predator, Human. They all have to be treated with some respect. Which really just means written with some thought to their internal motivations. The story should move where they move.

I don't know, at this point just adapting the original comic book might be the way to go. I'd be curious to see if that anime was an adaptation of the original comic or something wholly new.

[SiL]

I think it was something new.

And yeah, that's what I was getting at. Th being new to each other doesn't actually fix anything if the writers still don't take any care with it. Old enemies or new acquaintances, either can be respectful or another mess.

[PAS Spinelli]

 I really disagree with your comments about the Aliens. The Xenomorphs, being the weapons they are, specialize themselves to hunt down and harvest whatever local creatures they came out of.

 The human spawned Xenos seem to toy with their prey, as if aware of their fear, they know how our technology works and know how to use it against us, the animal born Xenomorphs are far quicker and deadlier, but also more reckless and simple minded, specializing in bull rushing and picking off targets in large groups without them noticing, perfect for dealing with social animals such as cattle and canines. There is also the fact that the Xenomorphs seem to retain some knowledge from their hosts, something that is explored in the comics and novels iirc, an example of this in the movies being the Queen making her nest in the reactor, she knew that to take her out they would have to give up the entire colony, she also knew how to use elevators and the like. Trying to say Xenomorphs are simply ignorant and violent is wrong, they are made to be the perfect predator to whatever creature they used as a host, this is a concept that should be explored more, specially in an AvP story

[SiL]

I don't think you understood my comments.

The point of saying they're born ignorant is it doesn't matter for the Alien's characterisation whether this is the first time they've met Predators or not. They're always born in the film. They then adapt very quickly to whatever environment they're in.

The Aliens set up a hive in a dark, enclosed area. If they understood the reactor at all they would've left when it started blaring alarms at them. The Queen only knew how to use the elevator because she just watched Ripley use one. Same with the Alien knowing how to use the liquid nitrogen in AR.

They don't inherently know about our technology, but they're fast learners.

If Predators are cautious and stalking, the only things they need to really worry about outside of observing their behaviour is the acid blood and that they can see them cloaked. The rest is careful observation and, well, hunting, and is necessary whether the Aliens are brand new or a known entity.

[BlueMarsalis79]

The hive could do with an upgrade frankly, as I am tired of seeing incompetence being the only reason the Alien wins, when it comes to people with access to firearms anyway.

[OpenMaw]

The hive could do with an upgrade frankly, as I am tired of seeing incompetence being the only reason the Alien wins, when it comes to people with access to firearms anyway.

Interesting to note about ALIENS, that notion of the primary heat exchangers is not in the original treatment. Not exactly.

He makes references instead to low visibility. Hearing chatter of gun fire, seeing shapes in the smoke. Acid. Screams. The marines are able to engage the aliens with all their guns, and they still take heavy casualties in the hive. I'd be curious to ask Cameron why he felt the need to make that change beyond the arbitrary heightening of suspense. There was plenty to go around as it is.

Instead, Gorman (who doesn't get knocked out in the treatment) orders the APC to start firing its guns into the hive. Hicks tells him to hold off because they could hit the reactor. So the idea is there, but it doesn't disarm the marines in such a contrived manner.

[PAS Spinelli]

I find it funny that taking the prepared aspect of the Predator is seen as nerfing but taking the unknown aspect of Alien in every single AvP crossover is completely fine

[SiL]

Because the Predator being prepared and still losing to the Alien is a greater show of the Alien's capability than the Predator being caught off-guard by an unknown quantity.

The "unknown aspect" has never actually been a thing Aliens rely on. The greatest unknown is literally knowing where they are, not what they are.

The crew of the Nostromo don't perish because they don't know what they're dealing with, they perish because they don't have the resources to deal with it. Same with the prisoners, same with the marines.

[PAS Spinelli]

The unknown aspect is a core part of literally every Alien movie, what are you on about?

Trying to argue that the people not knowing what they are dealing is somehow unrelated to the events of the first 3 Alien movies is straight up wrong

[OpenMaw]

Trying to argue that the people not knowing what they are dealing is somehow unrelated to the events of the first 3 Alien movies is straight up wrong

I have to agree with this. The crew of the Nostromo have no idea what they're dealing with. Ash says as much in his Perfect Organism Speech. That elements is always at play. Even in Resurrection there is that element thematically in the dialogue between Ripley and Wren. "You can't teach it tricks" etc.

Where and how the battle takes place is very important. A writer can write themselves into very rough corners and end up having to fall back on contrivances to overcome them. Which then becomes very unsatisfying to the audience. This is one of the weaknesses of the two AVP films we got. They don't feel authentic, and they feel compelled to add gimmicks, as if the concept alone doesn't carry enough compelling opportunities.

[SiL]

How has it been a core part of the Alien's effectiveness, when an hour into every movie everyone knows what they are?

Once the Alien killed Brett, the crew knew what they were dealing with. They still died.

Ripley spent the next two movies telling people what they were dealing with. Her not being believed, and environmental factors, gave the Alien bigger advantages than "the unknown".

"Where is the Alien, when will it attack next?" are the unknown elements that actually matter. "Where has the Alien taken them, why does it kill some and not others" is fun to discuss and sets a vibe. "I've never seen this before" has pretty short term benefits.

I have to agree with this. The crew of the Nostromo have no idea what they're dealing with. Ash says as much in his Perfect Organism Speech. That elements is always at play. Even in Resurrection there is that element thematically in the dialogue between Ripley and Wren. "You can't teach it tricks" etc.

You're overstating both of these. The Nostromo crew don't die because "they don't know what they're dealing with", they die because they're on a tin can in space and can't just shoot the thing.

The military on the Auriga are arguably just stupid; they know the things bleed acid, hence using liquid nitrogen, but they don't put them in acid-proof cages. They didn't fail because they "didn't know what they were dealing with", they failed because they were arrogant.

"The unknown" of the Alien's true nature or thought process is fun to talk about but pretty irrelevant when discussing them having a fight with someone when we see pretty clearly there's not much mystery to that. Alien stalks, Alien appears, Alien captures or kills.

[PAS Spinelli]

 A hour into every movie?
One hour into Alien, the crew thinks it's rat sized and are trying to trap it in a net
One hour into Aliens, the squad walks into a hive after not taking anything Ripley said seriously, and thinking they can simply outgun them.
One hour into Alien 3, the Alien is taking out multiple people and no one is aware of it, and later even Ripley is a bit lost because she notices how The Dragon looks and acts different.

 Do you know how different those situations would play out if the basics of the Aliens were made aware to every human like how it is to every Predator in AvP? Completely different, Nostromo? Kane is abandoned. Hadley's Hope? Nuked. The Prison? Everyone takes Ripley seriously the first time, thus starting the plan against the Xenomorph before more people die. And of course, Spike's owner would identify the marks on him and something would have been done about it.

 Knowledge makes a f**kton of difference, the Predator is always prepared, that is a downright unfair matchup.