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Dark Horse has just finished its recent run of Aliens, Predator, Prometheus and Aliens vs Predator Fire and Stone comics. Largely it seems to have sold quite well and been received well by comic critics – with fans it’s been a little bit more mixed.

Randy Stradley, as we should all know as the man responsible for the very first Aliens vs Predator comic, was asked about what was next for Dark Horse now that Fire and Stone had finished its run. He responded with: “We’re working on the next wave. The newly announced Neill Blomkamp film caused a restart.”

Curiously, Tim Lebbon, the author of the upcoming Rage War novel trilogy also commented on the need to go and change some aspects of the first novel of the series, Predator: Incursion, due to Neill Blomkamp’s upcoming Alien 5.

Considering the will-he-wont-he of whether or not Alien 5 will acknowledge of Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection, the implication that these post Alien 3 (post Resurrection in the case of Rage Wars) could be that Alien 5 will not be a straight retcon as has been theorized. Thanks to Ultramorph for the news.

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| "Considering the will-he-wont-he of whether or not Alien 5 will acknowledge of Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection, the implication that these post Alien 3 (post Resurrection in the case of Rage Wars) could be that Alien 5 will not be a straight retcon as has been theorized." |

I have to admit I am pretty confusted by now wether the new Alien going to be a retcon or not. Excluding Ripley 8 being in the new film but stating on the other side that it won't "undo" the last two films makes me skeptical. There are not that many roads the new film can follow to bring the original Ripley AND Hicks back.

I have'nt read the comics yet, but I liked the last three novels by Titan very much. I hope these upcoming novls and comic books won't contain too many elements that could turn out as "wrong" by the time Blomkamp's movie comes out.
Although the incident of the USS Auriga was mentioned in Seas of Sorrows as "terrorists crashing a ship on earth", I think this could be explained as just random terrorism in future books, rather than a group of pirates and a clone of Ellen Ripley, if that makes sense... (I'm just trying to sort out my own canon, I guess.)

Quote from: Bender on Mar 11, 2015, 12:35:07 PM
I have to admit I am pretty confusted by now wether the new Alien going to be a retcon or not. Excluding Ripley 8 being in the new film but stating on the other side that it won't "undo" the last two films makes me skeptical. There are not that many roads the new film can follow to bring the original Ripley AND Hicks back.

Tell me about it! I can't wait to get some actual synopsis. xD

The art was pretty, but the horrendous stories we received with this run do not fill me with hope.

Fire and Stone was amazing. Can't wait for a sequel! Stories were solid and exciting.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 11, 2015, 01:26:43 PM
The art was pretty, but the horrendous stories we received with this run do not fill me with hope.

I wouldn't use horrendous to describe it. I don't feel it packed the punch it wanted to, but I wouldn't call it horrendous at all.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 11, 2015, 12:37:48 PM
Tell me about it! I can't wait to get some actual synopsis. xD

I couldn't agree more. I'm so hungry for new information on any of the upcoming projects. I'm hoping that Titan at least officially announces Rage War soon. I want to know the broad strokes of what they have planned. Hopefully it involves the Arcturians, or maybe even going back to LV-223.

I get why people are upset about the changes being made, but for me at least, this is looking like a pretty good time to be a fan.  :)

On the Blomkamp side of things, these recent developments at Titan and Dark Horse make me wonder if we will indeed be getting an "interquel" set between the second and third films.

For me the problem with the Fire and Stone series was its overuse of Prometheus elements in EVERY title. So much so, that I think the Alien and AVP series suffered because of it. I'd be happy if they just let it slip away, the way they let the last attempted reboot slip away.

I had no problem with the 'Prometheus' stuff being included, but the liberties taken with the Hadley's Hope colonists were very lazy, there was very little in the way of actual Alien/Predator confrontation after the creative team criticised that as a flaw in previous stories and Elden was... A poor walking plot-device.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 11, 2015, 09:37:40 PM
I had no problem with the 'Prometheus' stuff being included, but the liberties taken with the Hadley's Hope colonists were very lazy, there was very little in the way of actual Alien/Predator confrontation after the creative team criticised that as as a flaw in previous stories and Elden was... A poor walking plot-device.

Wasn't it the Prometheus stuff that essentially created the poor walking plot device, which by extension made the AvP action take a back seat in its own title and which reduced the Aliens to little more than a minor threat in their own title?

Ugh... They used the Requiem xenos for that artwork... Excuse me while I throw up.

Yeah I noticed that, when will creators get that fans don't want any future Aliens/AVP/Predator stuff to be affiliated in any way to Requiem or even the AVP films in general. I think they used the same title style for the AVP issue.

I hope they just go back to the self contained storytelling of the 90's. I just want my traditional Alien minis, like what they recently did with Inhuman Condition & Fast Track To Heaven. Just give me a proven author & a great artist & tell me a good story I can take in as a singular whole. I don't need ties to every film & game & novel complicating things & needing a retcon after every damn movie Fox releases.

I'd really missed that over-arcing feel from the earlier comics. I like my universe to be expansive and connected, where anything can matter. It's not really something we got aside from the original 4 stories and I missed it. I missed it in Dark Horse Press' Aliens novel run and I'd liked it during their attempted relaunch in 09.

It was one of the aspects of Fire and Stone I liked and something I would like to see going forward. Not that I'd be adverse to stand-alones, I just want them properly managed and to have an impact somewhere in the grand scheme of things.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 18, 2015, 08:35:15 AM
I'd really missed that over-arcing feel from the earlier comics. I like my universe to be expansive and connected, where anything can matter. It's not really something we got aside from the original 4 stories and I missed it. I missed it in Dark Horse Press' Aliens novel run and I'd liked it during their attempted relaunch in 09.

It was one of the aspects of Fire and Stone I liked and something I would like to see going forward. Not that I'd be adverse to stand-alones, I just want them properly managed and to have an impact somewhere in the grand scheme of things.

I'm with EarthAngel on this. I don't like the idea that everything must be connected in some way.

At some point, a connected world becomes too "populated" and starts leaving more questions than answers.

I'm fine with it if it makes sense for the narrative, but I don't think the writers should have to tie it all together at the expense of a better story.

I really disliked Fire and Stone. It didn't feel like several connected stories. It was one long Prometheus story cut up into parts, guest staring Aliens and Predators, and a couple of those parts didn't fit the title they appeared in. They should have titled the books Prometheus: Aliens and Prometheus: Predator, etc...

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Mar 18, 2015, 01:55:31 PM
I really disliked Fire and Stone. It didn't feel like several connected stories. It was one long Prometheus story cut up into parts, guest staring Aliens and Predators, and a couple of those parts didn't fit the title they appeared in. They should have titled the books Prometheus: Aliens and Prometheus: Predator, etc...

I agree here. Aliens was definitely separate but Prometheus, AvP and Predator all felt like one long title.

But in general, an over-arching continuity makes a franchise feel more legitimate to me. That's my own opinion though. It doesn't help if its all tripe though. But done and managed right, a big continuity is fun.

Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 15, 2015, 11:30:19 AM
Yeah I noticed that, when will creators get that fans don't want any future Aliens/AVP/Predator stuff to be affiliated in any way to Requiem or even the AVP films in general. I think they used the same title style for the AVP issue.

Personally, I'd take the AVP films over Prometheus any day of the week; at least they tried to be Alien and Predator-related, I have a strong feeling that Prometheus is only using Alien as a launching platform before discarding it entirely comparable to the boosters a space shuttle uses to leave Earth and then discards upon entering the atmosphere.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 02:14:56 AM
Personally, I'd take the AVP films over Prometheus any day of the week; at least they tried to be Alien and Predator-related, I have a strong feeling that Prometheus is only using Alien as a launching platform before discarding it entirely comparable to the boosters a space shuttle uses to leave Earth and then discards upon entering the atmosphere.

I'll drink to that!

Probably true, recent statements have alluded to P2 diverging even further away.

Prometheus splitting off and moving farther away from the Alien series would be best for both series, in my opinion.

It depends how much further, if Prometheus 2 ignores the concept of Aliens and even Engineers as Ridley Scott has implied in recent interviews then what is there to connect Prometheus with the AVP universe? There's a difference between expanding a universe with a spinoff and shoehorning random, non-contradicting stories in just to make a quick buck.  We can technically shoehorn Pride and Prejudice in with Predator but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joblo.com%2Fnewsimages1%2F0217predator.jpg&hash=ff52eec894361c213a31e66bb049b1ab1d6783b2)

I think it's actually (generally speaking) a really good idea to give the universe some cultural and human depth other than the Alien/Predator films.

Quote from: predxeno on Mar 22, 2015, 06:32:45 PM
We can technically shoehorn Pride and Prejudice in with Predator but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1-ps.googleusercontent.com%2Fxk%2FHJB7Y9xE-t-vEV2aS_jH234XvR%2Fwww.dailydawdle.com%2Fimages.dailydawdle.com%2Fpride-and-predator.jpg.pagespeed.ce.OUxEFTvxx2ec7VCDgmuA.jpg&hash=d2d975787c8bfa4b4b59e8b25b178f7bfaf25790)

I just read F&S in it's entirety. Not bad.

Aliens was the most enjoyable read, while I found Prometheus & AvP to have the best art. Prometheus in particular had an interesting way of handling the goo-born wildlife on 223. I especially liked the 'sharks', which looked pretty terrifying.

Predator wasn't bad, but felt very 90's & Galgo's personality caused a shift in tone to something more comical & action oriented.

Prometheus F&S Omega had some great art too but I felt kinda disappointed with the outcome of the story. So the living mountain was supposed to be what had become of the squid-burster? It clearly showed that thing die in the Prometheus film after implanting the Engineer.

This series didn't really play it safe with canon. The next movie is likely to contradict everything they established. Speaking of which, I think I'll be giving Aliens Apocalypse: The Destroying Angels another read soon now that I have all of the Omnibus volumes.

I still have no idea where the ecosystem was even meant to have come from. The ooze doesn't create organic matter, it just rewrites/mutates it. I have a feeling the writers assumed it did.

Still don't understand how Elden got changed, either. There are contradictory references to exactly what a 'construct' is and it's not at all clear they aren't one and the same as synthetics. They even call those crash dummy-like things 'constructs', which were clearly machines and Elden says, "I'm not the dumb robot anymore."

As for the mountain, that was severely anti-climactic. They just hand-waved a big mystery in front of the reader and never bothered to explain it. Even the signal, of apparent human origin, just seemed to be put in there for the heck of it.

David also wasn't affected by touching the black goo in the film.

I'm just gonna guess it seeped into the ground deep enough to find some dormant seeds or mixed with Earth-born bacteria from the Prometheus crash.

Was it ever confirmed that those earthworms on 223 where indigenous? I'd have to assume there are plenty of organics for them to feed off of if so.

The story is pretty silly when you take Elden into account. I did like his character but it doesn't seem like a synth should be affected & there's a whole lot of movie monster mash up hooey going on. I enjoyed F&S but would have preferred them keep all of the franchises separate.

Even if we presuppose there was some kind of ancient and dormant life for it to ignite (which the story in no way suggests), that doesn't explain how the heck so much water suddenly appeared. :)

Of course, this is the same logic which appears to think cancer = super-muscles. :-\

Ha! Right. It's such a repeat of William Birkin from Resident Evil 2 or a Jekyll/Hyde type thing. Mad scientist injects himself with some crap, becomes muscle bound monster. We already have our monsters in this series & don't need any more!

I gotta admit I did like that big dumb oaf-ish Predator with all the mouth fingers though. He's kinda cute really.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 23, 2015, 06:23:13 AM
Even if we presuppose there was some kind of ancient and dormant life for it to ignite (which the story in no way suggests), that doesn't explain how the heck so much water suddenly appeared. :)

Of course, this is the same logic which appears to think cancer = super-muscles. :-\

Could it have been the storm?

The Prometheus crew seemed to trigger a storm on the planet when they changed the Atmosphere in the Ampule room, is it possible that- that actually did terraform the planet?

I got from the very start of the series that Elden was supposed to be something other than an android from the term construct. However, I think it could have been said somewhat more blatantly. There's a lot of the feel of Prometheus in this - ambiguity in the story.

Quote from: Son Of Kane on Mar 23, 2015, 12:15:33 PM
Could it have been the storm?

The Prometheus crew seemed to trigger a storm on the planet when they changed the Atmosphere in the Ampule room, is it possible that- that actually did terraform the planet?

I don't recall any rain being involved. Wasn't it like a big ole' cloud of sand/dust? I got the impression the crew triggered a primitive trap designed to stop anyone interfering with stuff.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 23, 2015, 03:31:25 PM
I got from the very start of the series that Elden was supposed to be something other than an android from the term construct. However, I think it could have been said somewhat more blatantly. There's a lot of the feel of Prometheus in this - ambiguity in the story.

Heh, yes, there was. :)

Elden is the biggest flaw, though. As I say, they even call those mechanised crash dummy things 'constructs'. There's literally no definition for if there's even meant to be a difference between those and synthetics, much less what it is. Plus, the whole thing of Elden referring to himself as previously being a "dumb robot".

And if he's meant to be 50% organic, why is he still standing up when his spine is vaporised? :)

There's an off-hand reference to him being termed a "meat robot", but what would even be the point of that? Breeding cloned humans in giant vats with a really basic IQ level? Elden is literally wandering the corridors writing 'hello' on posters on the walls... He's like a child with an adult vocabulary. He's acting like a synthetic (albeit, a slightly demented one). Why create an organic being like that - for incredibly important missions - if you already have access to more conventional - and reprogrammable - androids?

Possibilities:

Elden is organic: Why were the mutations so symmetrical? What made his genetics so superior that the stuff made him a new, streamlined creature, when it just seems to turn everything else into a mess?

Elden is a synthetic: How did the black ooze affect his programming? It's not like it can interface with his CPU and communicate in binary. :) How did it create flesh where none existed?

Either they should have thought through Elden's character a lot more or given him much less of an impact on the story.

Also just remembered there's an example of the ooze somehow turning an Alien's acid into red blood... Much strangeness! ;D

IMO Fok Fire & Stone, too many inconsistencys.

Also, when a human & Xeno touch the goo at the same time the human gets stuck in it's tummy tum tum. ::)

My only big complaints are that I wish Derrick Russel's fate had been made more clear, and come up somehow in Omega, and that they had done more with the mountain and the human signal. There's enough info to piece together what was going on with it, but it would have been nice to get a bit more pay-off.

I thought it seemed obvious. He procrastinated over whether to infect himself with the black ooze, then the Aliens struck.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 23, 2015, 07:28:24 PM
Possibilities:

Elden is organic: Why were the mutations so symmetrical? What made his genetics so superior that the stuff made him a new, streamlined creature, when it just seems to turn everything else into a mess?

Elden is a synthetic: How did the black ooze affect his programming? It's not like it can interface with his CPU and communicate in binary. :) How did it create flesh where none existed?

Elden is part synthetic, part organic

We really don't know how to it operated. It could be some sort of advanced nanotech capable of affecting both organics and non-organics

Quote from: happypred on Mar 24, 2015, 05:17:03 AM
Elden is part synthetic, part organic

We really don't know how to it operated. It could be some sort of advanced nanotech capable of affecting both organics and non-organics

There doesn't seem to be any indication of what Elden is, sadly. There's an off-hand "meat robot" reference (which sounds a bit nonsensical), but it seems to be comtradicted by other quotes. Especially with the mechanical crash dummy-like droids also being called 'constructs'.

As for nanotechnology, that should have meant it affected David 8 when he touched it, too. Also still wouldn't explain how Elden's programming was altered. Malfunctoning would have meant he just shut down or became mostly inoperable. It wouldn't make him suddenly develop emotions and a personality.

Also, even if he were a cyborg, like I said, what makes his flesh so superior that his mutation became so sleek and uniform, when it just turns everything else into a chaotic mess?

I thought it was pretty obvious early on he was supposed to be something different, even if they didn't approach it completely clearly. The meat robot comment makes it obvious hes supposed to be organic in some fashion, as does the accerelant's ability to effect him at all.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious early on he was supposed to be something different, even if they didn't approach it completely clearly.

Therein lies the problem. If you are going to introduce something different, yet similar to existing things, into an "established" universe, you need to do so in a way that allows the reader to learn what that different thing is and how those difference affect the story.

The way it was handled left more questions than answers and, for me at least, gave the feel of them wanting this thing to exist for the purpose of the story, but not knowing how to explain its existence beyond ambiguous references.

This is exactly why I prefer self contained stories. One author with a love of the source material wouldn't cause all of these issues. When you have a bunch of them working in unison wires get crossed.

Besides, I knew as soon as I saw Kelly Sue Deconnick's name attached it was going to be less than stellar. Omega was the most disappointingly written of all. Oh, the Queen is too fat to be a threat & just gets her head lopped off? Talk about anti-climactic & then there's the mountain & signal throwaway.

Quote from: Visceral_Mass on Mar 24, 2015, 05:48:03 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Mar 24, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious early on he was supposed to be something different, even if they didn't approach it completely clearly.

Therein lies the problem. If you are going to introduce something different, yet similar to existing things, into an "established" universe, you need to do so in a way that allows the reader to learn what that different thing is and how those difference affect the story.

The way it was handled left more questions than answers and, for me at least, gave the feel of them wanting this thing to exist for the purpose of the story, but not knowing how to explain its existence beyond ambiguous references.

Oh, I completely agree. It should have been more clearly for us.

Even being a cyborg doesn't explain the stuff I pointed out. Why is his flesh (if it even is that) affected so symmetrically and uniformly, where other characters even in the same story aren't? What was the point of bringing along a 'meat robot'? If he is organic, then why are other "constructs" clearly metal/plastic? How was the ooze reprogramming his CPU?

And what was even so special about him that his internal fluids would somehow filter the black ooze? It's the primary focus of what the entire series revolves around and they just kind of hand-wave it without any explanation.

Also really strange to see him drawing "hello" on various random posters in the corridors... I remember thinking it was a hint of something which would make sense later. Seems it was just... There. No rhyme or reason.

There are elements I liked about the series, but Elden is a walking schizophrenic WTF. :)

Also, it's mentioned there are both constructs and synthetics aboard ship. The Working Joe-alikes are termed 'constructs' and the only other machine is Elden. Therefore... Elden = synthetic?

Luckily a recent statement says that Blomkamp's Alien 5 has caused another "restart", which has also led to Rage War being rewritten to accommodate. Guess we can toss F&S into the ole' 'What If' pile along with well, pretty much everything else.

Quote from: 8BA on Mar 24, 2015, 07:29:30 PM
Luckily a recent statement says that Blomkamp's Alien 5 has caused another "restart", which has also led to Rage War being rewritten to accommodate. Guess we can toss F&S into the ole' 'What If' pile along with well, pretty much everything else.

Well, that statement could mean anything. I mean... Fire and Stone still takes place in 2179, right? Like.. DURING the events of ALIENS, am I correct in this? If that is the case.. that could remain "safe" and Blomkamp's movie doesn't affect it, assuming that movie is a retcon. And statements make it appear as such..

But Rage War? Lebbon said that little was changed. So we don't know what that could mean but methinks that Rage War is going to be released before Blomkamp's movie, and within that time Alien 3 and Resurrection would still be considered "canon" along with Rage War until Blomkamp's movie is released.. Which would negate that stuff.

I hope so. I'd hate for it to get pushed back to capitalize on a sales spike stemming from NB's movie. I got the previous trilogy a few weeks ago & am already on River Of Pain. Don't want to wait long!

I seem to remember feeling like things were being pushed back to arrive closer to Prometheus a few years ago.

Quote from: 8BA on Mar 24, 2015, 08:39:16 PM
I seem to remember feeling like things were being pushed back to arrive closer to Prometheus a few years ago.

I don't remember that. What were those things being release to coincide with Prometheus' release again?

The re-release of the Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual for starters.

& the Colonial Marines game, but that turned out to be due to development troubles. The point is that I couldn't stand to wait that long.

Besides River Of Pain the only other thing I've got left to experience between now & P2/A5 is Alien: Isolation. I could get it on PS3 but to space things out I'm waiting until I have a PS4. Also, I want the best possible experience.

I wish Dark Horse would step up it's game to the speed of the 90's releases. I could go for a new book every month.

Quote from: RakaiThwei on Mar 24, 2015, 08:36:00 PM

Quote from: 8BA on Mar 24, 2015, 07:29:30 PM
Luckily a recent statement says that Blomkamp's Alien 5 has caused another "restart", which has also led to Rage War being rewritten to accommodate. Guess we can toss F&S into the ole' 'What If' pile along with well, pretty much everything else.

Well, that statement could mean anything. I mean... Fire and Stone still takes place in 2179, right? Like.. DURING the events of ALIENS, am I correct in this? If that is the case.. that could remain "safe" and Blomkamp's movie doesn't affect it, assuming that movie is a retcon. And statements make it appear as such..

Aliens starts a week after Aliens and then continues for about 6 months. The other series take place nearly a century or so after Aliens.

In hindsight, I'm now curious as to what the story was meant to be, before they had to advance it in time. If memory serves right, that was the reason for why the spacesuits wound up looking like those of the Prometheus crew; not enough time to change the art.

Don't recall hearing that one. I will be sure to ask Paul Tobin.

Quote from: Xenomorphine on Mar 24, 2015, 10:31:43 AMAs for nanotechnology, that should have meant it affected David 8 when he touched it, too.

Keep in mind that Elden didn't just touch a drop of the accelerant...Francis injected a large quantity of it into Elden's system.

Perhaps synthetics are more resistant to the accelerant albeit not immune. David would be the most resistant to any sort of change. A human would be highly vulnerable and Elden would be somewhere in between.

Perhaps the accelerant started converting Elden's synthetic mass into organic mass or something like that. I agree that the writers could've done a much better job of explaining things. Mentioning "meat robot" isn't really an adequate explanation.

Elden was a construct with living tissue inside of him while David was a synthetic made completely of nonorganic parts.