Work on the Sequels Stopped?

Started by Corporal Hicks, Jul 18, 2017, 11:49:17 AM

Author
Work on the Sequels Stopped? (Read 145,900 times)

prometheusfire08

prometheusfire08

#1245

pretty certain David implanted him when he was fixing the gauze.........

completely hilarious that you are all arguing over a totally moot point lol

XenoHunter99

XenoHunter99

#1246
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

Jonesy1974

Jonesy1974

#1247
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

No worries, thanks for apologising.

I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.

0321recon

0321recon

#1248
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!

System Apollo

System Apollo

#1249
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.
The architecture isn't primitive lol!

tleilaxu

tleilaxu

#1250
Quote from: prometheusfire08 on Aug 05, 2017, 03:26:00 PM

pretty certain David implanted him when he was fixing the gauze.........

completely hilarious that you are all arguing over a totally moot point lol
That's what I thought too, but when I posted it here people made fun of me.

Protozoid

Protozoid

#1251
Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!
"They" didn't agree completely. Scalia wanted to use the Weyland viral shot by Jake Scott to open the film. It was never meant for that purpose. Scott wanted to cut it and Scalia talked him out of it. The bombing scene barely made it into the film at Scott's insistence. My reading of this is that very few people during the writing and editing process agreed with Scott and that made it difficult for him to get his way.

It was different with Kingdom of Heaven partly because it had a different editor, Dody Dorn, who fought for the longer cut from the beginning. She would not let the dictates of pacing override what she thought was best for the story. She didn't want them to cut an important subplot, for example, that Scott had to fight just to get permission to shoot. This parallels Covenant in that both films had a major subplot involving a female character that interrupted the flow of the main narrative, but was absolutely crucial to the story, the motivations, and was one of the reasons Scott wanted to make the film in the first place. Dody Dorn fought for story and character and fought against studio pressure to make compromises for pacing. Scalia, on the other hand, compromised story for paciness even beyond what was necessary, particularly with Prometheus.

More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

0321recon

0321recon

#1252
Quote from: Protozoid on Aug 05, 2017, 06:11:59 PM
Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 04:22:47 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:03:18 PM
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 04, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Quote from: JokersWarPig on Aug 04, 2017, 08:25:37 PM
I think it has less to do with knowing some people like it and more to do with the fact that it has some glaring flaws

That again though is just down to the eye of the beholder. I think it has a few minor flaws but think the good far outweighs them and don't believe it has any glaring ones.

To be told this is just because I'm 'eating it up, yum yum, is incredibly insulting, ignorant and arrogant.
Yeah, that was rude. Sorry. But glaring flaws are the problem. Gymnastics are required to make sense of them. Important material that could have solved a lot of those problems and strengthened the movie are available only through viral videos and ancillary materials. Scott says that's because the movie could be only two hours long, but that was his decision. Plenty of movies run longer than two hours these days. Sometimes, that's to the film's detriment. I think, in this case, another 20 or 30 minutes of runtime, even more, could have made a big and positive difference. If we have 6 minutes for Fassbender to love himself, it seems we could have had a bit more screen time to learn what happened to Shaw (as one example). it might have been nice to get some insight as to why the Engineers at LV223 seemed so advanced while the Engineers on Planet 4 (for lack of better designation) seem so primitive. Who were those guys, anyway? Why was the architecture more like Rome of earth than the biomechanical aesthetic of the spacefaring Engineers? I don't expect answers to any of this. I'm putting it out there as something that could have been done to legitimately smooth things over. More runtime could have strengthened the movie.

Great points. It doesn't help when Pietro Scalia admits there was a 12 minute bridge of Prometheus and Covenant that delve into what occurred with Shaw and David, and that was cut for pacing since they liked the introduction with David and Weyland. Then, they trimmed those twelve minutes to a two minute crossing viral. Stupid in my part. I would of liked to seen this at least as a deleted scene, though they didn't even bother put it in on the blu-ray.

Then, the whole advent viral feels like a mid or end credits stinger that could have helped explain David's twisted thought process, and also helped the audience get ready for what's going to occur in the final film. Though, that was left to the side also. I had to tell a person to watch the film, then watch the short so they got an idea of what was occurring with David, Shaw, the engineers and the path for the final film. Afterwards, they told me, they were shocked though, made the film better in their point of view.

Having read that Fox was pushing Scott to trim the film down to extent of not even showing the bombing sequence, shows that Fox was at it again on meddling with the film. Though, Scott could of told them, hey give me an extended cut like Kingdom of Heaven, and I'll do the trims you want, so in that part, he washes his hands, though not even that. In the end, I like the film since I see what Scott was going for from the interviews, virals, etc though I agree, this film needed to be at least 30 minutes longer.  I again say, FOX I hope you're reading this, release a damn extended cut!
"They" didn't agree completely. Scalia wanted to use the Weyland viral shot by Jake Scott to open the film. It was never meant for that purpose. Scott wanted to cut it and Scalia talked him out of it. The bombing scene barely made it into the film at Scotts insistence. My reading of this is that very few people during the writing and editing process agreed with Scott for him to get his way.

It was different with Kingdom of Heaven partly because it had a different editor, Dody Corn, who fought for the longer cut from the beginning. She would not let the dictates of pacing override what sue thought was best for the story. Sue didn't want them to cut an important subplot, for example, that Scott had to fight just to get permission to shoot. This parallels Covenant in that both films had a major subplot involving a female character that interrupted the flow of the main narrative, but was absolutely crucial to the story, the motivation of the female lead, and was one of the reasons Scott wanted to make the film in the first place. Dody Dorn fought for story and character and fought against studio pressure to make compromises for pacing. Scalia, on the other hand, compromised story for paciness even h yond what was necessary, particularly with Prometheus.

More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.

XenoHunter99

XenoHunter99

#1253
Quote from: System Apollo on Aug 05, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
The architecture isn't primitive lol!
The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.


Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
No worries, thanks for apologising.

I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
Cool!
I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.


Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

***

You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?

0321recon

0321recon

#1254
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Aug 05, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
The architecture isn't primitive lol!
The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.


Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
No worries, thanks for apologising.

I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
Cool!
I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.


Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

***

You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Begin the film with the David and Weyland sequence. Then cut with the Covenant crew viral of them having fun before going into cryo (even if some of the scene is cringe, though help cement crew in our minds). Then, cut back to ten years and show the events in Paradise, then finally cut back to the Covenant crew waking up into disaster. With that we have a connection with the crew, then were shocked to the events in both Paradise and the deaths that occur in the Covenant setting the tone of foreboding and doom.

Went to film school and our professors taught us to edit a sequence depending on character, and story instead of pacing. This could have been one of the solutions to fix this problem. However, sadly it seems that wasn't done in this case. 

Protozoid

Protozoid

#1255
Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 08:04:17 PM
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Aug 05, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
The architecture isn't primitive lol!
The CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers. The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook. Also, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar. So riddle me this, my fine feathered friend: Who are these people and how do they relate to the Engineers as seen on LV223? Since David slaughtered them, it may not matter; but I'd love to know.


Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Aug 05, 2017, 04:14:42 PM
No worries, thanks for apologising.

I agree about the runtime, hell, I'd have happily sat through 3hrs! But I don't think that's all down to Ridley. A film of this kind which i believe is a little niche is kept short from a business perspective. At least that's what I think is the reason anyway.
Cool!
I agree, I'd sit through 3hr version that works really well. You could be right about the time limit, though later posts provide really interesting discussion about the editors having a lot of influence on that.


Quote from: 0321recon on Aug 05, 2017, 07:25:26 PM
More and more I think the real problem people have with Scott's last two Alien movies is Scalia. His tastes differ heavily from what audiences want. I miss Dody Dorn. She can be flashy like Scalia but she would not compromise story and emotional connection to character for pacing or structural neatness. I hope that, in a decade or so, the studio releases extended editions of these movies without Scalia that is closer to the scripts.

***

You're right. I remember watching the behind the scenes of Kingdom of Heaven and she citing with Ridley. I have to ask what happened with Ridley and Dody so that Scalia is back butchering his films left and right. If Dody had edited Prometheus we'd be singing another tune regarding Covenant/Paradise.

If nothing occurred between Dody and Ridley, I hope she would come back and re-edit both films to see what Ridley and his screenwriters were going for though, I won't hold my breath for that occurring any time soon.
Your insights about the editing are great! I doubt we'll find out exactly what happened, but thanks for all that. Naturally I think the movie would be better with that 12 minutes restored along with other cut scenes. I wonder what would have happened if the movie had been edited in nonlinear time, like Pulp Fiction?

That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Begin the film with the David and Weyland sequence. Then cut with the Covenant crew viral of them having fun before going into cryo (even if some of the scene is cringe, though help cement crew in our minds). Then, cut back to ten years and show the events in Paradise, then finally cut back to the Covenant crew waking up into disaster. With that we have a connection with the crew, then were shocked to the events in both Paradise and the deaths that occur in the Covenant setting the tone of foreboding and doom.

Went to film school and our professors taught us to edit a sequence depending on character, and story instead of pacing. This could have been one of the solutions to fix this problem. However, sadly it seems that wasn't done in this case.
Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade out the footage that was shot would be:

1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.

Gash

Gash

#1256
Quote from: The Cruentus on Aug 05, 2017, 12:23:41 PM
. I commented because you almost use it as if its a fact rather a metaphor that the hugger is sexually reproducing, which its not. Parasitism is not sexual.


Face rape, birth, Kane's son...

The Facehugger is not a parasite, it's an 'ambulatory penis' - that was the intention from O'Bannon, Giger et al.

Perhaps these facts have been watered down by the sequels, but I doubt it.

bb-15

bb-15

#1257
Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
Quote from: System Apollo on Aug 05, 2017, 05:15:16 PM
The architecture isn't primitive lol!
The Citadel structure is enormous compared to surrounding buildings, the landing field seems large, and the scorpion-tail skyhook fits right in with LV223 engineer aesthetic. It actually looks different enough from everything else to to make me wonder if maybe these ground-dwellers and the spacefarers are two different groups. I doubt the ground-dwellers made that skyhook.

The issue here imo is gut reaction vs. trying to find out the intent of the various filmmakers of the Alien franchise, including with the two prequels.

The Engineer home world architecture leads to your gut, telling you to doubt that the "ground-dwellers made that skyhook". OK, that's fine for you. It can be your personal canon for instance.
- However, I don't have the same gut reactions as you do as we are different people.
* And I'm a person who goes into the details of what the filmmakers intended.
- To me in a fictional universe, when the filmmakers try to establish something, this determines what is "true" in that fictional world.

* The co-script writer of "Prometheus", Jon Spaihts, determined (in his draft scripts) that the Engineers had a mixture of architecture and physical appearance of creatures which included both Giger's designs and classical European / Middle-east architecture / design.
* In "Prometheus" the mixture of Giger and classic design is clearly shown in the Shrine room.
- The relief / wall sculpture is dominated by Giger design elements.
- However the ceiling painting is based on classic European art. The giant head sculpture is influenced by classic Egyptian, Greek/Roman design.
- The Engineers themselves look like classic Greek/European sculpture.
- But the Deacon has a Giger influenced design.

* In "Covenant" the Engineer design language started by Jon Spaihts continues (the mixture of Giger and classic Greek/European elements). 

- Conclusion about this fictional world; the ground-dwellers in "Covenant" made what we see in the Engineer city.

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 07:36:55 PMThe CG views say you're right, though maybe not more advanced than ours. From the ground, the people, their clothes, and their ostensibly urban environment look strangely primitive. They don't look like an advanced race of space travelers.

Imo the creators of a fictional world can have old style architecture, clothing in an advanced, future culture.
This is true in these science fiction franchises; Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, and so on.
And now imo this is true in the Alien franchise.

Quote from: XenoHunter99 on Aug 05, 2017, 07:36:55 PMAlso, there is no sign of ground vehicles, other aircraft, or any sort of transportation except for the Juggernauts in their hangar.

What is seen is only a glimpse of a large plaza on the Engineer planet.
If I looked at just an overhead view of the Louvre Museum or of the Egyptian pyramids, I would not know all the technology of earth such as the Hadron Collider. 
One glimpse of a world does not = seeing the total technology of a world.
- Instead again, with a fictional universe what the creators of that universe intend is useful in understanding what is going on. 

;)

XenoHunter99

XenoHunter99

#1258
Quote from: Protozoid on Aug 05, 2017, 08:39:05 PM
Personally, I think the best way to make lemonade eight the footage that was shot would be:

1. All of the footage filmed for virals remain as virals. No opening with Weyland.
2. Open the movie on the Covenant with Walter.
3. The flashback is 12 minutes long and has all of the Shaw stuff.
You also had great input about the editing. Didn't mean to exclude you. I don't know the best way to make lemonade, but I'm sure there is enough footage to do something more than was done. It's unfortunate.

Salt The Fries

Salt The Fries

#1259
Cutting the brilliant Weyland prologue would also be removing a certain arc coming full circle with the ending.

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