After the first Boss Film Studio Predator:
(https://i.ibb.co/fC2SwWv/5441-1396913714-8c5c646b0952b34be88c87463e745a.jpg)
And before the final Stan Winston Studio Predator:
(https://i.ibb.co/MMHLftS/244-1315590112-e58e35be1bcebd08b25cd2e8257daf10.jpg)
There was Director John McTiernan:
(https://i.ibb.co/27nNx5J/images.jpg)
And the lesser known, yet very instrumental, Robert Short:
(https://i.ibb.co/hBp9NBp/Robert-Short.jpg)
His company Robert Short Productions (with the important input of director John McTiernan) helped redesign the Predator into the iconic creature that is celebrated today, so much so, that this deserves its own thread.
Most fans know the filming of Predator was shut down for months to allow time to fix the creature's look, and during that time Robert Short met with director John McTiernan to fix the Predator.
First Fix
Originally they planned on a quick fix, covering the existing Boss Film Studio Predator suit with a more imposing armored space suit but the idea was quickly rejected.
(https://i.ibb.co/fx7h01y/predatorreconcee.jpg)
Meanwhile at Fox
As another quick fix, Fox briefly considered replacing the Predator with an actual Alien original FX suit, but with a brand new paint job plus modifications. Luckily this idea was rejected too.
Second Fix
It was soon realized by the powers that be at Fox that a total new Predator design was needed. What Robert Short Productions created was a creature that could walk on all four legs, which was later developed with long creepy mandibles.
(https://i.ibb.co/0Bng9hS/5183-1384987918-8f134a166cc6be140832e4fab41124fe.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/rdCv37z/5184-1384987921-b7e90eec6bdd7da0f6a6ae0aa1859685.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/25D5pmn/5185-1384987923-c3a9de978fce6432fb2255dea7f1ab71.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/xCsN3pX/1393-1331138360-4472d3879e1f90c761003b0ae60e3be4.jpg)
Director John McTiernan was still not satisfied
John McTiernan liked the mandibles but was not thrilled with the animalistic approach with the Predator. John wanted an alien that looked more intelligent and advanced.
Then John brought in an illustration of a Maasai Warrior by artist George Jensen for inspiration:
(https://i.ibb.co/KqcCmFf/5182-1384987210-cd0a1b7164af0ef34b1f41eb3b1e1e98.jpg)
Third Fix:
Using the Maasai Warrior painting as inspiration, the goal became to create a tribal, retro-futuristic hunter. This new Predator design included a new combination of mandibles, dreads, neck piece, footwear, helmet and armor designs, much that carried over to the Stan Winston Studio's final Predator design we know today.
(https://i.ibb.co/QkjvtjY/5181-1384987205-2bee994f0cba3df4c695a4090fafc1ce.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Pt8WXqR/5053-1384961836-adb300a539bb24af3397e35596378929.jpg)
All this was hung up in Producer Joel Silver's office and became the foundation for Stan's final Predator creation and enhancements:
(https://i.ibb.co/BtnLWLh/predatorwinstonconcepts.jpg)
So remember to give Stan Winston Studio credit, but not all of the credit! Be sure to thank Robert Short and John McTiernan too!
Bravo.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 18, 2019, 04:56:12 PM
https://i.ibb.co/QkjvtjY/5181-1384987205-2bee994f0cba3df4c695a4090fafc1ce.jpg
I absolutely love this.
Quote from: The Old One on Jun 18, 2019, 05:56:08 PM
Bravo.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Jun 18, 2019, 04:56:12 PM
https://i.ibb.co/QkjvtjY/5181-1384987205-2bee994f0cba3df4c695a4090fafc1ce.jpg
I absolutely love this.
Me too. With its hemet on, they really handed Stan the Predator design on a silver platter.
This is super fascinating to see the steps of the design process. I remember hearing about the Masai warrior inspiration before, but never actually saw the picture!
Yeah it really is a wonderful painting!
Wow i never saw that before, really interesting, i dont dislike the old design but you cant beat Stan Winston, thanks for sharing.
You're quite welcome! This isn't widely known so I'm happy to share it! :)
Start a blog already, the online Predator fandom seems to lack a place for these interesting, neat niche deep-dives.
Quote from: SiL on Jun 19, 2019, 02:02:40 AM
Start a blog already, the online Predator fandom seems to lack a place for these interesting, neat niche deep-dives.
Hmm. Good advice SiL, if I'm willing to maintain the commitment. I will definitely consider it!
I didn't know that an original (heavily modified) ALIEN suit was considered at one point.
Curious.
Spoiler
(https://i.ibb.co/xCsN3pX/1393-1331138360-4472d3879e1f90c761003b0ae60e3be4.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/94/bd/0a94bd6c1f219ca64331f510b067eb1d.png)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/30/3e/45/303e4523fd82401c803b72628f63b248.png)
Whoa! I've always given all of the credits to Stan so it's really eye-opening to know about someone's else contribution to the iconic design.
Great job, Voodoo!
Great thread.
Thanks. I'm just a spreader of information that doesn't get much play. These artists get the real thanks!
I'm just glad Arnold had to go off and shoot The Running Man which allotted more time than usual to get the Predator right! It's amazing to ponder how wrong this movie could have turned out.
Lightning in a bottle.
Miracle
Considering the NECA figure 100th Predator, I'd love to see said Predator, hunt the original Predator design.
Quote from: Fiendishly Inventive on Aug 13, 2019, 02:25:24 PM
Considering the NECA figure 100th Predator, I'd love to see said Predator, hunt the original Predator design.
You mean on the big screen? I think they would have to use CG to do it justice, right?
I don't necessarily think so.
I think all of this info is in the back of the original AVP comic from memory. Also I think it was James Cameron that came up with the idea for the mandibles.
That's true.
I've never seen that first concept piece of the futuristic Massai (or rough fictional equivalent thereof) before. Not the Proto-Predator on the rock that came just after, but the original inspiration for it, with the hi-tech Jason mask and Conan The Barbarian boots? It's an awesome design on its own, but it also works brilliantly as inspiration for the whole Predator concept as we understand it:
A tribal warrior culture that has advanced technologically, but hasn't changed much structurally or socially; they're more technologically advanced than anything present-day Earth can muster, but their way of life remains largely the same as it was thousands of years ago. I like that it divorces the idea of "tribal hunter-gatherer" from "primitive" and "modern Western civilization" as "advanced."
I can see why they used it, in other words, LOL.
Quote from: Highland on Aug 22, 2019, 07:50:15 AM
I think all of this info is in the back of the original AVP comic from memory.
Definitely not all of it, but an interview with artist Alan Munro who was working on Robert Short's team definitely. :)
QuoteAlso I think it was James Cameron that came up with the idea for the mandibles.
Did he though? That was always a weird statement by Winston on the docs. Never any credit to Robert Short's team, just James Cameron.
I guess Stan Winston didn't consider these mandibles, just teeth...?
(https://i.ibb.co/Pt8WXqR/5053-1384961836-adb300a539bb24af3397e35596378929.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/25D5pmn/5185-1384987923-c3a9de978fce6432fb2255dea7f1ab71.jpg)
...and the only thing that is mandibles to Stan is in images 3 and 4? Maybe I guess, depending on your definition.
(https://i.ibb.co/BtnLWLh/predatorwinstonconcepts.jpg)
I remember something about ( or even footage of) James Cameron sitting on Plane saying " I always wanted to see a creature with mandibles"
...But thats all I remember.
That's the anecdote Winston recalls. They were on a plane together.
Voodoo's right, it's a weird claim considering the earlier designs are clearly rockin' some mandibles.
For anyone interested I did a behind the scenes piece (https://monsterlegacy.net/2017/06/12/predator/) with the whole story.
This info comes from Robert Short himself who published a few posts on this forum -- here's his page (http://www.robertshortfx.com/features.html), scroll down to see the Predator bits
Quote from: Omegamorph on Sep 12, 2019, 08:09:26 AM
For anyone interested I did a behind the scenes piece (https://monsterlegacy.net/2017/06/12/predator/) with the whole story.
This info comes from Robert Short himself who published a few posts on this forum -- here's his page (http://www.robertshortfx.com/features.html), scroll down to see the Predator bits
You should add the art I posted here to your awesome article! There is more of it, plus the full Maasi Warrior and resulting inspiration paintings, and there's no copyright stamps across the middle of these to distract from its beauty! :)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Sep 12, 2019, 10:56:28 AM
You should add the art I posted here to your awesome article! There is more of it, plus the full Maasi Warrior and resulting inspiration paintings, and there's no copyright stamps across the middle of these to distract from its beauty! :)
I considered that, but the reflections throw me off. should find the time to make a kitbash of the two versions
Your website is always a fun read.
Glad this was dug back up! Had no idea about Robert Short's involvement.
Now that I'm really looking at it, the very first creature design even had mandibles so it was a concept floating around the production for a while. Maybe Cameron suggested mandibles closer to the final design and Winston was just fluffing the story a bit for humor.
Quote from: PredBabe on Dec 05, 2019, 06:28:00 PM
Glad this was dug back up! Had no idea about Robert Short's involvement.
Always remember John too! If the director didn't bring in the Maasai Warrior painting to Robert Short, who knows how the Predator would have ultimately looked!
(https://i.ibb.co/KqcCmFf/5182-1384987210-cd0a1b7164af0ef34b1f41eb3b1e1e98.jpg)
QuoteNow that I'm really looking at it, the very first creature design even had mandibles so it was a concept floating around the production for a while. Maybe Cameron suggested mandibles closer to the final design and Winston was just fluffing the story a bit for humor.
Yep that could definitely be it. But ultimately it perpetuates the notion that it was all Cameron's idea with no mention of Short, which kind of rubs me the wrong way a bit. :(
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 05, 2019, 07:18:13 PM
Quote from: PredBabe on Dec 05, 2019, 06:28:00 PM
Glad this was dug back up! Had no idea about Robert Short's involvement.
Always remember John too! If the director didn't bring in the Maasai Warrior painting to Robert Short, who knows how the Predator would have ultimately looked!
I could never forget about that man! Always got a kick out of him being the only one who didn't want to say "you are one ugly motherf***er" at the end of the making footage. :laugh:
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Dec 05, 2019, 07:18:13 PM
QuoteNow that I'm really looking at it, the very first creature design even had mandibles so it was a concept floating around the production for a while. Maybe Cameron suggested mandibles closer to the final design and Winston was just fluffing the story a bit for humor.
Yep that could definitely be it. But ultimately it perpetuates the notion that it was all Cameron's idea with no mention of Short, which kind of rubs me the wrong way a bit. :(
Agreed, Short was snubbed because of how it was presented.
Quote from: PredBabe on Dec 05, 2019, 07:45:03 PM
I could never forget about that man! Always got a kick out of him being the only one who didn't want to say "you are one ugly motherf***er" at the end of the making footage. :laugh:
Haha, indeed! He was strangely reserved considering the amount of curses some of his films contain! :D
Amazing post! pretty interesting. :D
I think these concepts would be good designs for a black goo mutated predator.
(https://i.ibb.co/25D5pmn/5185-1384987923-c3a9de978fce6432fb2255dea7f1ab71.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CNWqHR8.png)
Maybe they inspired in some form the mutated yautja from Alien vs. Predator: Fire and Stone.
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/3/38/AVPFaS3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150408154030)
So you mean a Predator Abomination? Yeah, something like that but something closer to a good design? lol But seriously, something more consistent with the Neomorph? I'd hope so anyway, after Covenant, sources became far more consistent with the Pathogen's effects.
The little arm with the shoulder canon still tickles me. :laugh:
Emblematic of everything I hate about the series, even if I love aspects of it, especially the premise.
Oh, it frustrated the hell out of me the same way Prometheus does.
I'll agree on that, but Covenant's existence means Prometheus is now somewhat palatable, for me anyway.
Did any one else see the interview with jean-claude van damme saying something along the lines. he was SUPER pissed that his agent basically lied to him saying he was gonna go to show off his martial arts skill not be a monster. Then they drag out that abomination and slap him in side and he said it was the most redicules thing he had ever seen and he was embarrassed to be in it. Thank god they changed the design and did not cast jean-claude van damme. I don't think it would have turned out quite as well without Kevin Peter Hall and the new design.
I think that's a given.
Thank you very much for all this information. I didn't realize that John McTiernan and Robert Short had such a big influence on the design.To be honest, I had never heard of Robert Short before.
I found this information on the stan Winston School website with lots of great pictures.
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/predator-movie-making-the-predator
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/predator-30th-anniversary-behind-the-scenes
https://www.stanwinstonschool.com/blog/predator-behind-the-scenes-creating-the-mechanical-head-face-and-mouth-for-the-jungle-hunter?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=blog+-+creating+the+mechanical+head&utm_content=main&fbclid=IwAR0702oy7fVpkH6StwgTuCoFAJiRIgO6LUKBMcZqDOuYnTeN0zAYJpPwGAo
I wish there were books by J.W. Rinzler on Predator and Predator 2 to make all this information, as well as other anecdotes from the filming, available to a wider audience.
This is an amazing post! Love the knowledge.
This iconic design catapulting Predator on the map, topping it off with an amazing reveal: the respect of removing the mask to have a showdown with his worthy prey in Arnold.. and now... we have Feral...