What Unit Did Dutch & Co Come From?

Started by Kimarhi, Nov 06, 2019, 05:30:52 AM

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What Unit Did Dutch & Co Come From? (Read 3,619 times)

Kimarhi

When I went through basic in 2011 it took a substantial amount of US dollars (I think 250,000 is what we were told) to put a soldier through basic training and ait.  That just initial level training.  I think food and housing alone for those couple of months is something like 44,000, but you have to figure in insurance and salaries and travel to and from (for both yourself and everybody training you) and all this other craziness to the fold as well.  The numbers can be skewed because it cost less to train an infantryman than it does to train a tanker, and less to train a tanker than it does to train somebody who deals with nuclear weapons, etc.


Delta typically comes from the Ranger Regiment.  Who have an intial entry course to get in, airborne school, and then Ranger School, and then many from there go to one of the Special Forces groups, which has its own initial entry selection process and training course which can be over a year long.   To be in Delta there is another selection process, plus another six month long operator course afterwards.


Somewhere in all that you have military free fall courses, scuba diving courses, language courses etc. and each unit has their own in house training that never stops. 


Literally YEARS of training to get to that level and if it cost 250,000 bucks to just get an initial entry soldier through training IMAGINE the investment the US Government is putting into each of those guys.  There not going to want to put those guys in situations where they don't have the best possible chance to come out with the W,

I think it was Chuck Pfarrer who stated that the Navy's version of Delta which is ST6 shoot more in the peacetime military than the entirity of the Marine Corps did in the same period.  A handful of guys who had to be so proficient with their firearms they outshot an entire BRANCH of the US Military. 

The shit is fascinating.  Everybody with even the teeniest interest in military should check out their countries military elite.   Our guys have masters degrees, speak multiple languages, run human sources like intelligence agencies, are marathon running body builders, and function as human automated turrets who have to hit something ridiculous like 95% of the targets they shoot at in training to stay Delta/Devgru. 

Local Trouble

So why didn't you go for all that yourself?

Kimarhi

You'd need to go AD to get that kind of look and have better vision.


On the Army guard side the only SOF is 19th and 20th Group.  Neither of which I qualify for because of vision. 

But I lost my desire to want to shed blood the older I got. 



SM

SM

#18
You should've seen him in the old days.  Desire out the wazoo.

Local Trouble

Local Trouble

#19
So I'm still unclear as to whether Dutch's team was a band of mercs or if they were such super elite active-duty US military badasses that they actually had the right of refusal over their own missions.

Like if Kimarhi was US Army Major Dutch Shaefer and some pencil-pushing colonel ordered him to go hang a metric f**k-tonne of c-wire in 110-degree heat w/90% humidity for no good reason, what could he say?

SM

SM

#20
I lean towards them being army guys.

Local Trouble

"Where the f**k are the Army guys?!  >:("

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

#22
From Wikipedia:

Quote from: WikipediaSome time later, in a Central American jungle,[notes 1] retired U.S. Special Operations Forces veteran Major Alan "Dutch" Schaefer[notes 2] and his elite mercenary rescue team...

Problem is that the source is not listed, so not possible to verify.

Their uniforms and equipment are quite a mix-and-match which would suggest Mercs/PMC's but then again that's not unusual for Special Forces operators either. Blains M134 Minigun might suggest military personnel but then again the PMC's in Iraq also had access to that kind of artillery. :-\




Local Trouble

This matter should probably get its own 200-page thread.  We must have consensus.

oduodu

oduodu

#24

Local Trouble

It's been mentioned, yes.  Still not sure what the source for that is.

𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔈𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱𝔥 𝔓𝔞𝔰𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔤𝔢𝔯

Maybe they can be both?

For example, after the invasion of Iraq there was a huge demand for mercs in Baghdad and PMC's were luring away a lot of the top/most experienced SAS operators with promises of huge salaries. But as Kimarhi mentioned, it cost a huge amount of money for a country to train top tier operators, so in order to avoid losing more of those highly skilled men, the SAS granted senior NCO's official permission to leave the regular army to go and earn money on the "security" circuit and then having "loaded up", they were allowed to return to regular service after 18 months without loss of rank or pension.

Kimarhi

The same sort of thing can happen in US Military. 

I've heard in the ARNG SF units that the SF guys will go work for a PMCs when they are not officially training/deployed with their Groups.

But this is a relatively new scenario, as the resurgence of American PMCs really only blew up with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. 




There are also examples of American special agents with varying agencies getting pulled for overseas duty.  I know the DEA had some people deployed to Afghanistan, as well as the FBI's HRT (which will often go through the learning portions of the SEALs, SF, training cycles) got attached to various military agencies as the gunhands.  Even though again, this is not hinted  anywhere in the story. 



Local Trouble

I defer to Kimarhi on all matters pertaining to the military, but I'm still not sure what his decision is.

Kimarhi

As far as I've read no PMC has authorization to US military equipment, so I would think mercs except for the ending with the chopper coming in flown by the predator who was clearly dressed as US Army aviation personnel. 

But maybe that was just an old military friend bailing out one of his former subordinates. 

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