I just got my copy of Alien: River of Pain and figured I'd start a thread for those who either already have the novel, or have read it, or have found an article reviewing it. Hope this isn't redundant, but I figured the other thread was speculative about details whereas this one is factual so spoilers ahead.
Spoiler
Well my first comment is that the back of the book mentions HADLEY'S HOPE as "The doomed colony from the blockbuster film ALIEN". I figure they just had to say that instead of "ALIENS" due to licensing rights. No big deal.
Can't wait to read through this!
Ok, so chapter 2 names the planet around which LV-426 orbits. It is called:
Spoiler
Calpamos
Anybody ever hear of that in any other Alien Story?
Calpamos has been floating around for a while. All the Fire and Stone comics have gone out of their way to use that name, and I think Colonial Marines did, as well.
You're right Ultramorph. I just caught that with a simple bit of Googling... I'm 3 chapters in. Well it looks so far like they're really trying to explain a lot and stay consistent with "canon" in that case. I am really enjoying the book so far.
Here's a little bit about the name of the book for those who haven't guessed it:
Spoiler
Acheron comes from the ancient Greek mythological "River of Pain" which wound through the netherworld. This is confirmed in the book.
Four chapters in and I'm really enjoying it. The author is really focusing on character development rather than like the characters in Sea of Sorrows.
I'm listening to the new (ehem very old) Pink Floyd album while reading. "Endless River". No, the irony is not lost on me. It's a cool way to enjoy the book. No singing means no distractions yet a pretty cool vibe...
Here is the back of the book...
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 18, 2014, 11:44:55 PM
Calpamos has been floating around for a while. All the Fire and Stone comics have gone out of their way to use that name, and I think Colonial Marines did, as well.
I'd never seen it prior to the comics. Does anyone remember when it first showed up?
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 19, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 18, 2014, 11:44:55 PM
Calpamos has been floating around for a while. All the Fire and Stone comics have gone out of their way to use that name, and I think Colonial Marines did, as well.
I'd never seen it prior to the comics. Does anyone remember when it first showed up?
Regarding the meaning of Calpamos...
Spoiler
...Also, since according to the book River of Pain, Acheron literally means River of Pain, and Calpamos has a Greek word structure, does anyone know if the naming of Calpamos has any deeper meaning or translation?
Is it my eyes or does that back cover say established 2179... What happened to people being there for over 20 years??
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 19, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Ultramorph on Nov 18, 2014, 11:44:55 PM
Calpamos has been floating around for a while. All the Fire and Stone comics have gone out of their way to use that name, and I think Colonial Marines did, as well.
I'd never seen it prior to the comics. Does anyone remember when it first showed up?
It gets name-dropped in some of the pack-ins with the Aliens: Colonial Marines collector's edition, but as far as I know they sourced it from Xenopedia... which made it up wholesale. :P
Oh well, it's canon now I guess. :P
I like that they're using Acheron for the name of the moon.
But it says Newt is the colony's first newborn... Wasn't Tim older? So is he already around when the Jordens move there, or what?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 20, 2014, 09:00:16 AMIt gets name-dropped in some of the pack-ins with the Aliens: Colonial Marines collector's edition, but as far as I know they sourced it from Xenopedia... which made it up wholesale. :P
We're just building better worlds.
Still have high hopes for this book. For those of you fortune enough to have a copy is there much time spent investigating the Derelict? How are the Marines handled? To a lesser degree I am wondering does it stay consistent with Aliens Newt's Tale (I know many of you don't like the comic, but what can I say, I'm a fan)?
Hey, back cover ! The doomed colony from which film now?!
Quote from: robbritton on Nov 20, 2014, 10:47:25 AM
Hey, back cover ! The doomed colony from which film now?!
That back cover mention of the doomed colony from the "Alien" film was the first inconsistency I mentioned from the book in an early post in this thread, but I suspect that it was due to the licensing from FOX. Titan has the "ALIEN" license for books and there may be a licensing reason why they can't reference the film Aliens. But who knows for sure?
The book is very enjoyable with well written / developed characters, and so far seems to be bulletproof in terms of continuity.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 20, 2014, 03:11:38 PMThe book is very enjoyable with well written / developed characters, and so far seems to be bulletproof in terms of continuity.
Something I wanted to ask - does the book recreate any scenes from the Aliens SE at all? I'm thinking mainly of Russ and Anne finding the derelict for the first time.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 19, 2014, 11:13:03 PM
Is it my eyes or does that back cover say established 2179... What happened to people being there for over 20 years??
Without reading the whole book yet or really sorting out the dates, I can tell you that so far (7 chapters in) the book seems bulletproof in terms of continuity and you're going to love it. The author actually includes dates and time of occurrence with each chapter and sometimes several times per chapter. (It is a real page-turner and I would probably have finished it by now if I didn't have so much work on my plate.) This one specific detail with the establishment of the colony date you don't need to worry about as it is dealt with. It appears to be fully consistent with canon. Below is the explanation, but beware as it has spoilers. Not major story-affecting spoilers but still, be warned:
Spoiler
Hadley's Hope may have been established in 2179, but that does not necessarily mean that is when people first got there. Hadley was one of the designers of the infrastructure on LV-426 years before the colony was established in his name. There is a chapter which starts in the year 2165 on LV-426 and there are already atmosphere processors there. So far so good...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Nov 20, 2014, 09:08:35 AM
I like that they're using Acheron for the name of the moon.
But it says Newt is the colony's first newborn... Wasn't Tim older? So is he already around when the Jordens move there, or what?
Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 20, 2014, 09:00:16 AMIt gets name-dropped in some of the pack-ins with the Aliens: Colonial Marines collector's edition, but as far as I know they sourced it from Xenopedia... which made it up wholesale. :P
We're just building better worlds.
Newt is the colony's first-born and this is explained fully so no canon infraction here. Explanation below, so spoiler alert:
Spoiler
Russ and Anne came to LV-426 with Tim already born elsewhere. We even get to know Anne's maiden name! There is some backstory to this couple. I love the character development. I literally want to take a day off work and just read through this thing. It's so interesting....
Ah, cool. Any Prometheus references?
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 20, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
Ah, cool. Any Prometheus references?
Regarding Prometheus references:
Spoiler
7 chapters in. So far zippo. ;-)
....but two chapters are spent re-enacting 2 pivotal scenes from Alien and Aliens films in full. That was fun to read. It really brings the vibe of the 2 films together into the book. That's not easy considering how different they are.
Sounds great, can't wait for my copy.
About Arcturians:
Spoiler
3 words: Arcturian Trading Partners
My copy arrived this morning. Can't wait to start reading. :D
So I'm a little over half way through it and the Jordans have just made friends in the Derelict. Impressions so far...
Spoiler
By and large I'm enjoying it. A lot of the first half of the book has been about the life that the colonists lead. Mostly the hardships they face and the effect that has on the family and the mind. It's been pretty interesting and the Jordans have had the brunt of the attention so far. That said, the family and relationship drama included might annoy some folk.
Ripley has also featured but it's largely been an adaptation of Aliens as could be expected.
The novel has also dealt with the corporations and corporate connections. Golden has handled the inclusion of the Colonial Marines and their relationship to the colony and Wey-Yu. He's basically said that the Colonial Administration, the government (United States) and Weyland-Yutani are all working together on the colonizing effort.
W-Y get involved in certain colonies that they belief have potential to benefit them. Specifically here it's around the idea that something extraterrestrial is on 426. W-Y are aware that the Nostromo picked up an ET signal but not specifically anything about the Xenos. Golden puts across that W-Y put plenty of effort into finding aliens as they've helped advanced technologies - he specifically mentions how useful the Acturians were in this regards.
Golden has the Jordans explore the Derelict and they come across hived up section of the Derelict and the remnants of Jockey's and Aliens in the midst of a conflict. It had all been going really well but it's led to my only groan moment and Golden has somehow merged forgotten that the eggs had been below the pilot's chamber, not in it. Hoping this is the only significant mishap.
Enjoying it so far.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 22, 2014, 12:39:32 PM
My copy arrived this morning. Can't wait to start reading. :D
So I'm a little over half way through it and the Jordans have just made friends in the Derelict. Impressions so far...
Spoiler
By and large I'm enjoying it. A lot of the first half of the book has been about the life that the colonists lead. Mostly the hardships they face and the effect that has on the family and the mind. It's been pretty interesting and the Jordans have had the brunt of the attention so far. That said, the family and relationship drama included might annoy some folk.
Ripley has also featured but it's largely been an adaptation of Aliens as could be expected.
The novel has also dealt with the corporations and corporate connections. Golden has handled the inclusion of the Colonial Marines and their relationship to the colony and Wey-Yu. He's basically said that the Colonial Administration, the government (United States) and Weyland-Yutani are all working together on the colonizing effort.
W-Y get involved in certain colonies that they belief have potential to benefit them. Specifically here it's around the idea that something extraterrestrial is on 426. W-Y are aware that the Nostromo picked up an ET signal but not specifically anything about the Xenos. Golden puts across that W-Y put plenty of effort into finding aliens as they've helped advanced technologies - he specifically mentions how useful the Acturians were in this regards.
Golden has the Jordans explore the Derelict and they come across hived up section of the Derelict and the remnants of Jockey's and Aliens in the midst of a conflict. It had all been going really well but it's led to my only groan moment and Golden has somehow merged forgotten that the eggs had been below the pilot's chamber, not in it. Hoping this is the only significant mishap.
Enjoying it so far.
Spoiler
In addition to the fact that the egg chamber and pilot's chamber now appear to be merged, there is another strange detail on the same page. In effect, the Alien eggs are described as 1' to 18" tall. That is clearly inconsistent with any eggs we've seen I'm about 2 thirds of the way into the novel and I don't see anything else glaringly inaccurate. Curious how that got into the book when Kane's descent was so memorable. I suppose there could be an adjacent chamber next to the Space Jockey in the Derelict, but it's unlikely that's what the author intended. Secondly it is possible that there were different sized alien eggs but it seems an unnecessary deviation from canon. Realistically, it would have been impossible to write the scene differently and expecting that Russ could have gone down the hole near the jockey and then Anne would be able to pull him up on her own. It's a bit of an annoying section midway through the book, but other than that the book is pretty solid.
Is this connected any way to the previous two books?
I have finished the book. In one word, Awesome! It is my favorite book by far of all the Aliens books that I have ever read. It comes out today. Go buy it. Treasure it.
Out of respect for the author's great work, I decided to not get into any more spoilers here until the release date, but since that day is here I have written a review of the novel which can be found on the "Aliens Continuity Change" Facebook page. I actually invite you to go out and read the book instead, but if you're interested in the spoilerific review, you can find it here:
https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change/posts/363400347153568 (https://www.facebook.com/Aliens.Continuity.Change/posts/363400347153568)
Keep it tight people...
Spoiler
"As it turns out, another little girl and a marine also escaped Acheron on a spaceship." They didn't go by the name Wilks and Billie did they? :D
Book's not out here in the UK until the middle of next month. Sad times.
Still says today on Amazon. But it's also still only a pre-order.
I've had mine on pre-order for a while and it's still showing December 18th as the delivery date.
EDIT: Although, having checked, you're right, the book's entry on the site actually gives today as the release date. Wires crossed somewhere.
Just got an email from Amazon stating i won't get my copy until December 19th. What gives? >:(
Chapters.ca from Canada is shipping the book right now. But it will take 2-3 weeks to get to the US from Chapters.
Here is the shipping info:
http://help.indigo.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/28 (http://help.indigo.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/28)
http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/alien-river-of-pain-novel/9781781162729-item.html?ikwid=alien&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=2 (http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/alien-river-of-pain-novel/9781781162729-item.html?ikwid=alien&ikwsec=Home&ikwidx=2)
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Nov 25, 2014, 05:49:57 AM
Spoiler
"As it turns out, another little girl and a marine also escaped Acheron on a spaceship." They didn't go by the name Wilks and Billie did they? :D
Spoiler
Well no they did not name them Billie and Wilks but that was the exact same impression that I got out of the book. In fact all three books from this series have set up different threads that can be followed up on in various divergent stories, essentially setting up post-Alien, post-Aliens, and Post Alien: Resurrection worlds. The relationship between the marine and the little girl from A:ROP is potentially exactly like Hicks / Newt or Wilks / Billie from the original Aliens series by Mark A. Nelson and Mark Verheiden.
The novel itself was really great, but this new idea to give fans something similar to that continuation of the Hicks and Newt story that fans have been hoping to get since 1986 is really uncool. Fox seems to want fans to just transpose their invested feelings about Hicks and Newt to these two new derivative characters. I don't think that's going to fly. Think about it, that's like having a girlfriend and then when that relationship ends, trying to find someone who is identical to her. That never works...
I would be open to them doing a remake of the original comics. They are some of the best we got.
Ok, well the cat is out of the bag. ;)
As far as comics go, I think the very first 2 or 3 Aliens series written by Mark Verheiden were by far the best of all the Aliens series, but IMO, they were destroyed not by Prometheus, but by Wilks and Billie. Reading those retconned books, you end up thinking the whole time that this should be Hicks and Newt. But yes, a retelling of those stories would be fun.
The logic presented in Alien: River of Pain works much better than the old Dark Horse retcon, but honestly I think people would much rather have Hicks and Newt. I know there will be those who disagree...
Looks like I'll be getting mine December 19th, as well. It kind of stinks, but there are plenty of comics coming out in the meantime.
I got impatient. Amazon.ca said it would ship soonish, so I checked local Chapters here in Edmonton and managed to grab a copy. I'm about a third of the way through right now. I'm pretty happy with it so far. A couple of little things that have bothered me so far, but I'm looking past them.
ClockworkHorror, I'm really curious about where you feel the book has shortcomings Please share. Page turner eh? Glad you're enjoying it. I had a lot of fun reading this book. It really feels like the second film.
Yeah, it definitely has a very Aliens feel to it!
Most of the issues I have with the book are fiddly. Like the mistake on the back cover where they mix up the film titles.
The rest:
Spoiler
And where there's been a mistake in dialogue transcription. And why Russ says on the 19th 'We're going tomorrow morning.' and then they're going the morning of the 21st.
Mainly I've just had a hard time not cringing at certain things that just don't, in my opinion only, need to be there. Ie The scientists being stereotypical stuck up assholes. Some of the Marines being a little off the rails with their attitudes. And the row that Russ and Anne have after the Captain arrives. They seem too over the top when the first two films are about really mundane, ordinary people thrust into wholely extraordinary situations.
I think a lot of that clashes with what we've seen in the films.
I think my main gripe is that, to me, Alien and Aliens are about horrific things happen to people we can relate with. When the secret spaceships, grand conspiracies and stereotypes rear their ugly heads I don't feel it's representative of the universe already created. Like way too cartoony. It's the same reason I'm not fond of Resurrection.
But, having said all that, I don't hate it. I'm just disappointed. And despite my disappointment I'm enjoying it.:) Far better story than Sea of Sorrows, and on par with the first half of Put of the Shadows.
Bear in mind, I'm only halfway through.:)
That mistake on the back cover was probably a conscious decision as they were "officially" referencing the Alien movie in terms of licensing. It was likely a conscious decision. But yes it did put a bit of a bad taste in my mouth going in as well.
If you're about half-way in, strap in, the action ramps up from here exponentially right up until the end... Enjoy!
From about that mid-point, I found it impossible to put the book down right to the end...
I hope the title mix up was a mistake instead of an actual decision. The former just makes them look sloppy, the latter....
Anyhow, I finished it! The second half definitely had more going for it than the first half. This is indeed the best book in the trilogy. Aside from a few issues (I'm picky) it was really well written, had some great characters, and stuck really closely to canon.
Except for the mustache. The mustache made me a little crazy.
I really like how the Aliens: Fire and Stone continuity fit in, as well.
Just got an order update email from Amazon - my copy's on it's way.
Quote from: ClockworkHorror on Nov 26, 2014, 08:22:23 AM
I hope the title mix up was a mistake instead of an actual decision. The former just makes them look sloppy, the latter....
Anyhow, I finished it! The second half definitely had more going for it than the first half. This is indeed the best book in the trilogy. Aside from a few issues (I'm picky) it was really well written, had some great characters, and stuck really closely to canon.
Except for the mustache. The mustache made me a little crazy.
I really like how the Aliens: Fire and Stone continuity fit in, as well.
I expect that it was a Fox licensing decision. If that is the case, then it does not reflect poorly on Christopher Golden at all.
There's only one way to be sure. We should start to put together a list of questions for the author. Perhaps Corporal Hicks will have another opportunity to do an interview?
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 26, 2014, 02:39:37 PM
I expect that it was a Fox licensing decision. If that is the case, then it does not reflect poorly on Christopher Golden at all.
I'm sure the information on the back of the book is courtesy of whoever did the marketing and the proofing/continuity. As such it doesn't reflect poorly on Mr. Golden's writing, at all.
Quote
There's only one way to be sure. We should start to put together a list of questions for the author. Perhaps Corporal Hicks will have another opportunity to do an interview?
Questions would be neat! I have a few.:)
Yeah, I've been doing follow-ups so I'll try and get one organized for the new year.
Got this evening to myself so I'm hoping to get through the last 100 pages tonight. ;D
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 26, 2014, 03:37:50 PM
Yeah, I've been doing follow-ups so I'll try and get one organized for the new year.
Got this evening to myself so I'm hoping to get through the last 100 pages tonight. ;D
Great, looking forward to your review. I presume you will post one after finishing the book. I think in hindsight, we will all look back on this book as a true Aliens classic. The only way they can top this book is if S.D. Perry releases an omnibus compilation of the adaptations of Mark Verheiden's classic Aliens Series but with Hicks and Newt brought back in (instead of Wilks and and Billie). That won't happen though. I suspect that we will see a continuation of this new novel though...
Bloody-Disgusting.com has a preview of the Alien: River of Pain novel which can be read here:
http://bloody-disgusting.com/exclusives/3322509/exclusive-book-excerpt-alien-river-pain-titan-books/ (http://bloody-disgusting.com/exclusives/3322509/exclusive-book-excerpt-alien-river-pain-titan-books/)
Enjoy!
Dreadcentral.com also has a downloadable preview:
http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/80155/read-exclusive-excerpt-christopher-goldens-alien-river-pain/ (http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/80155/read-exclusive-excerpt-christopher-goldens-alien-river-pain/)
Stopped at Books-A-Million and they had a few copies, plan on starting it tonight. ;D
Man what the heck is up with Amazon, I pre-ordered it so I could have it day of release not a month latter. >:(
Oh well I got it now thanks BAM, Just canceled my order with Amazon.
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Nov 26, 2014, 10:00:07 PMMan what the heck is up with Amazon, I pre-ordered it so I could have it day of release not a month latter. >:(
Yeah, they're normally really good. All I can think is the release date got brought forward and nobody told them.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Nov 26, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
Great, looking forward to your review. I presume you will post one after finishing the book.
I will be indeed. Hopefully over the weekend.
Well I finished it last night. I did enjoy it. Definitely far stronger than any of the DH Press ones. It does feel like it was setting up for more potential adventures - however, I feel it lacked the emotional resonance than Wilks/Billie or Newt/Hicks. We never really get to get to know her. All 3 books have all had aspects of set-up in them - Hoop in Out of the Shadows, everything in Sea of Sorrows and
Spoiler
Brackett and Luisa
.
This was my observation exactly, that the three books not only set up the opportunity for continuations, but they do so specifically in the three major Alien time periods. In effect, there is the post-Alien time period. the post-Aliens period, and the "post-last 2 films" period. I believe that this is not just done to give multiple opportunities for future stories in novels, but it is also a marketing test to see which period in the Alien history people find most interesting and compelling, possibly for the purposes of the next Alien film (?).
I think that we are currently in an Alien hype era with the recent Prometheus film and all manner of Alien promotional materials, but I think Fox will find from these books that River of Pain was the story fans liked most. The post-Aliens era IMO was the period that really captured audiences' imaginations. But it would be interesting to set up a vote a few weeks after the release of River of Pain to see which books were most popular and which continuations fans would most like to see.
I agree, it seems like Fox has very carefully set up multiple options for itself as far as future EU, and even for potential future films. I know that I'm most excited for the post-Resurrection period.
Spoiler
It's also neat how they're setting up possible stories involving other sentient aliens, IE Arcturians, dog-aliens, etc. I hope some of these show up in Rage War.
I thought it was pretty good overall. I liked the development of most of the characters. Aside from a few obvious continuity errors with the films, it was an enjoyable read for an Aliens novel. I would really like to see where it goes next. 7.5/10
Started this last night and got a third of the way through it in my first sitting. Really enjoying it.
So far I'm finding it to be the best of the three. I like that I haven't actually got to any Aliens yet. The recreation of scenes from Aliens is a neat and very welcome touch. I'm also getting a kick out of picturing Hollister from Red Dwarf in all the new Simpson scenes. I prefer Golden's writing to the other two. Looking forward to finishing it.
I thought I'd recognized a number of the things from the book - other than from Aliens. Draper, Aaron, Tim's birth segment and the Annie's death.
So I've just re-read Newt's Tale and Golden took those elements from the comic.
Yeah, there's a lot from the comic in the book.
Thanks for keeping the spoilers hidden, folks. I'm only 1/3 of the way in, but so far I'd agree that it's the best of the three. The characters are engaging and appealing, and I'm having a fine time reading about them; half the time I'm forgetting that there are going to be aliens, eventually. A good sign. :)
That said, a couple of quibbles:
- I don't - what's the word... appreciate? I don't appreciate reading scenes from Aliens through the author's own idea of what Ripley might have been thinking/feeling at the time. Case in point: Burke. Almost as soon as he appears on Gateway, Golden is having Ripley think of him as a "creep" and a "sleazeball". I never got that impression from the film, and it certainly never came across in Alan Dean Foster's novelization. At worst, from my perspective, she seemed to think of him as just another yuppie, a man of no consequence in light of all she's experienced. Am I alone in thinking that it wasn't until the confrontation in the APC that words like "creep" and "sleazeball" would have applied?
- If you're gonna quote scenes from the movie... quote 'em correctly! There are two instances in the inquest scene where Ripley said "goddamn" or "godammit". Golden cut the first, and changed the second to "dammit". Why do that? Some sort of religious thing?
Anyway, again, small quibbles. This is the best Alien-related read I've had since ADF.
Only 100 pages in myself but in complete agreement with you regarding Burke.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 30, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
So I've just re-read Newt's Tale and Golden took those elements from the comic.
Wait, so Newts Tale still happened? I thought they were starting over the EU as a whole. :-\
Some further thoughts now that I'm into the final third (spoiler-free, unless you haven't seen
Aliens, but I've blanked it out just in case...)
Spoiler
I'm sad to say, it's gone downhill quite noticeably in the second half. It's still good enough, but some frustrating quibbles have snuck in that are bugging me in the same way Ripley being in Out of the Shadows bugged me. Most of all, I hate how several times now characters have made instantaneous leaps in logic as though they've seen the films and know exactly what's going on. Case in point - the instant Brackett is told colonists are going missing, he knows they're being taken to a hive. He doesn't suggest it as a theory, he knows it for a fact, even though no one's seen anything to suggest it previously. How the hell does he know what the aliens are doing with their victims, when it's made it clear several times no one's even seen anything like the Xenomorph? Likewise, as soon as another Marine sees a Facehugger in a jar, he knows the scientists have been killing people to get them off, even though there's been no evidence of that happening at all. It's really annoying, because things like that instantly snap you out of the world, the paranoia and tension, that the book's trying to build up.
Another frustration is Dr. Reese. He's become a dreadful cliché. All hell's breaking loose around him, and he's there twiddling his bad guy moustache making evil plans like a caricature. He is literally no safer than anyone else. He could be taken by an alien at any time. But is he bothered? No, he's too preoccupied being a silly corporate bad guy stereotype. Burke was corporate bad guy, but he was at least emotionally affected by the horror he found himself in. Reese doesn't seem to give a shit. Again, it's frustrating because it lacks believability. It's doubly annoying because Reese could've been a much more interesting character.
Lastly, Simpson mentions that he's sent a distress call to Gateway now that shit's gone bad. So how come no one in Aliens knows what the hell's going on? Even Burke is clueless.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 01, 2014, 03:49:36 AMWait, so Newts Tale still happened? I thought they were starting over the EU as a whole. :-\
Apparently not. The scene where Newt and Tim watch the Chestburster pop from Russ is recreated exactly as it was in the comic, and some of the characters from the comic are in the novel (Aaron, Bill Andrews).
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Nov 30, 2014, 11:17:21 PMIf you're gonna quote scenes from the movie... quote 'em correctly! There are two instances in the inquest scene where Ripley said "goddamn" or "godammit". Golden cut the first, and changed the second to "dammit". Why do that? Some sort of religious thing?
This. It's a small point, but it's bugged me quite a bit. The scene with Simpson and Lydecker in Operations from the SE was particularly culpable - it felt like Golden had written it after reading the comic rather than watching the film.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 01, 2014, 08:54:56 AM
Apparently not. The scene where Newt and Tim watch the Chestburster pop from Russ is recreated exactly as it was in the comic, and some of the characters from the comic are in the novel (Aaron, Bill Andrews).
Sounds like then that they are cherry picking what's in the safe zone and what isn't ala the New 52. I had assumed that they really were starting over again considering that everything was being rebooted. But then again, I'm guessing Mike Richardson's statement of actually wiping the slate clean applies only to Dark Horse. Meh.
Spoiler
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F575%2F422%2Fe69.jpg&hash=a21cbefa995e39e47bf9ef9bbf27b072a1b90712)
I really liked this book. I feel that it is definitely the best in the trilogy, and one of my favorite side stories of the franchise. I did even like the rehashing of material from the movies and Newts Tale. I think it made it feel more real. Anybody catch the Fire and Stone references?
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 01, 2014, 08:54:56 AM
Spoiler
I'm sad to say, it's gone downhill quite noticeably in the second half. It's still good enough, but some frustrating quibbles have snuck in that are bugging me in the same way Ripley being in Out of the Shadows bugged me. Most of all, I hate how several times now characters have made instantaneous leaps in logic as though they've seen the films and know exactly what's going on. Case in point - the instant Brackett is told colonists are going missing, he knows they're being taken to a hive. He doesn't suggest it as a theory, he knows it for a fact, even though no one's seen anything to suggest it previously. How the hell does he know what the aliens are doing with their victims, when it's made it clear several times no one's even seen anything like the Xenomorph? Likewise, as soon as another Marine sees a Facehugger in a jar, he knows the scientists have been killing people to get them off, even though there's been no evidence of that happening at all. It's really annoying, because things like that instantly snap you out of the world, the paranoia and tension, that the book's trying to build up.
Lastly, Simpson mentions that he's sent a distress call to Gateway now that shit's gone bad. So how come no one in Aliens knows what the hell's going on? Even Burke is clueless.
Yeah - pretty much what I also thought too. It was nice not to have a rehash of what the Aliens did shoved in my face but it was handled very blaise, I thought. But they just can't win with us can they. Bloody fans! :P
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 01, 2014, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 01, 2014, 08:54:56 AM
Apparently not. The scene where Newt and Tim watch the Chestburster pop from Russ is recreated exactly as it was in the comic, and some of the characters from the comic are in the novel (Aaron, Bill Andrews).
Sounds like then that they are cherry picking what's in the safe zone and what isn't ala the New 52. I had assumed that they really were starting over again considering that everything was being rebooted. But then again, I'm guessing Mike Richardson's statement of actually wiping the slate clean applies only to Dark Horse. Meh.
I don't think it's that much of a big deal, personally. It's 1 scene and several small aspects of a 2-shot comic that isn't even available in the main omnibuses.
Quote from: keithpuryear on Dec 01, 2014, 09:45:47 PM
Anybody catch the Fire and Stone references?
Certainly did. Was nice to see Chris tidy up the thing about Russell being in-charge. Also, anyone else notice the time discrepancy between River of Pain and Fire & Stone? Fire and Stone starts a week after River of Pain ends apparently and it just doesn't seem to sync up.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2014, 08:18:32 AMYeah - pretty much what I also thought too. It was nice not to have a rehash of what the Aliens did shoved in my face but it was handled very blaise, I thought.
Good to know I'm not alone. I
am still enjoying the book, and it's definitely the best of the three, but the second half is full of these disappointing continuity gaffs. Even if they're trivial, they're still there, and there are quite a few of them. Like when they enter the main atmosphere processor - they call the
lifts elevators and they come up from below, but
Aliens shows us that when the elevators aren't in use they return to the landing pad at the top, so they should be coming from above. Little things like that.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 02, 2014, 08:18:32 AMBut they just can't win with us can they. Bloody fans! :P
F*cking Simpson having a f*cking moustache..?! :)
Quote from: Morgoth on Nov 25, 2014, 03:25:34 AMIs this connected any way to the previous two books?
Your comment's old, but I noticed no one had really replied -
The book doesn't seem to be directly connected (haven't quite finished it yet), but there are some references to
Out of the Shadows. For instance, when Ripley is rescued from deep space, the harpoon gun she used to kill the Alien at the end of the first film is found lying on a computer console inside the Narcissus rather than wedged under the door, indicating the door had been opened and someone had been on board at some point. (Of course, this is regardless of the fact we
see the harpoon gun under the door in
Aliens, but that was as much of a problem with the first book as this one).
There were also some bits aboard Gateway that I took to be references to
Out of the Shadows, where Ripley monologues internally about some vague memories of fear and terror that she can't quite remember, which I took to be a reference to her having her mind wiped before leaving the Marion.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 02, 2014, 08:48:36 AM
F*cking Simpson having a f*cking moustache..?! :)
Yeah, wassup witdat? :-\
Also, the whole 'folks, we have scored big this time' scene was odd, with half-quoted dialogue appearing differently than the film in relation to what was said inside/outside the tractor. Just pointlessly odd stuff.
Seems crazy, but maybe Golden's never actually
seen the special edition?
[EDIT: Nah, couldn't be. He even had Van Leuwen putting the cap back on his pen before "it is the finding of this court of inquiry..."]
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 01, 2014, 03:49:36 AM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 30, 2014, 11:23:10 AM
So I've just re-read Newt's Tale and Golden took those elements from the comic.
Wait, so Newts Tale still happened? I thought they were starting over the EU as a whole. :-\
You're kidding, right? No one ever claimed that was going to happen.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 04, 2014, 07:40:32 AM
You're kidding, right? No one ever claimed that was going to happen.
I'm accounting what one of the writers said of the Titan books when they said "Fox wants to unmuddy the waters by comics, games, other novels by writers". I know it was mentioned in an audio interview or podcast.. I can't remember which author said it.
As for whoever said that they were starting over.. More than one sources have said it.. Scott Allie, Mike Richardson, and I think Golden did too. Now that I think about it.. I think it was him or Lebbon who said the powers that be were wishing to unmuddy the waters.
But hey, you're the go to guy regarding canon and continuity, so why should I argue with you? I'm just telling you what I heard.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Dec 02, 2014, 05:36:23 PMAlso, the whole 'folks, we have scored big this time' scene was odd, with half-quoted dialogue appearing differently than the film in relation to what was said inside/outside the tractor. Just pointlessly odd stuff.
Yeah, I made note of that too. At first I thought maybe that was how the scene appeared in
Newt's Tale, but after checking the comic the "call it in" dialogue happens inside the tractor, as in the film. So I dunno why he felt the need to alter something that didn't need altering.
Finished the book. All my previous thoughts stand. Good read, the best of the trilogy, but beset by annoyingly pointless inconsistencies, especially in its second half. Most annoying of all, even a cursory glance at the film would've made most of them obvious to the author/editor. Why does Simpson have a 'tache? Why are Pulse Rifles now "plasma guns"? Why is operations now
beneath the med lab?
Personally, what with the fall of Hadley's Hope being such a pivotal moment in the franchise, I would've made sure some extra effort was put into getting everything right. But a lot of these errors were so obvious.
Overall not a bad book. Anyone whos watched the movies and knows some of the pivotal scenes by heart will notice the errors in scene description and dialogue. This bugged me to no end, I dont understand why the author decided to change some of these dialogue scenes that were perfectly fine in the movie, but it sets my teeth on edge KNOWING the source material is not hard to access yet they werent done true to it.
The throwback scenes to Alien and Aliens with ripley i honestly hated, not just because of the inaccuracy in the movie-writing but i personally think that they are over milking Ripley.
I felt the Scientist and marines pissing contest was annoying and un-needed.
Spoiler
I did like Story development of brackett having him and Anne having a past felt like a good build and despite what he wanted he he didnt rock the boat with Anne intentionally. i found that to be quite refreshing and a bit sad. Anne fantasizing about Brackett thou minor bothered me. Russ was being a dumbass. But it was reason for newt to befriend brackett which felt sad and right.
Scenes from newts perspective in some ares truly made me feel scared and hopeless which i loved. I Easily imaged myself there in the colony in some scenes feeling the fear.
The last scene with the marines searching the ops for survivors and Brackett finding anne and tim dead, not being able to find newt, But knowing she was so close to him was heartbreaking and i got serious ripley newt vibe from brackett and the little girl he rescued.
Overall id say 7/10 not my favorite Alien book but not bad either.
Was anyone else really disappointed the female colonist the Marines find alive in the hive in Aliens didn't feature? She clearly had to have been on the run until a day or so before they arrived, but the book just jumps several weeks from the final overrun of the colony to Gorman and co. arriving.
I thought that was a big missed opportunity.
That's a good point. I've always wondered what she was doing from the point where the infestation occurred to when the marines arrived and if she ever crossed paths with Newt. It would have also been interesting to reference John J. Marachuk.
The way it was left felt like all the colonist that were remaining the 100ish of them all got snatched up in that last night with the exception of newt
Quote from: Nazrel on Dec 06, 2014, 07:52:31 PMThe way it was left felt like all the colonist that were remaining the 100ish of them all got snatched up in that last night with the exception of newt
That's what I mean. I think a bit of extra survival horror focussing on a few stragglers, including Mrs. Hive Woman, would've really added to the book.
I really loved this book, If it wasn't for having to work 12 hour shifts I would have finished it sooner. I love that Golden used Newt's Tale as a starting point. I also was pleased with the way he handled the marines, I was worried they were going to be all gung-ho ACM types. But yes I noticed many of the mistakes the rest of you have mentioned. Does no one at Titan bother to proof read this stuff. I mean most of this would be an easy fix. :P
Two things I wanted to mention, first the description of the Derelict. At first I thought, what the hell was he smoking, putting the Jockey in the egg chamber? But then I got to thinking, just because their is a helmeted engineer in a chair in an egg chamber does not mean he is the same engineer we see in Alien. It kind of sounds like Anne and Russ are down a level in the big egg chamber from the movie Alien and that the Jockey would be above them. We have never seen the far ends of the egg chamber, maybe another helmeted engineer is stationed there in another big chair, perhaps to monitor the eggs?.... Well maybe I'm grabbing at straws, I'd like to know what Golden has to say.
Second the book makes it sound like the colony sent out a message asking for help. What happened to losing radio contact and it just may be a downed transmitter? Was Burke lying, or was the signal somehow blocked? :-\
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Dec 08, 2014, 05:13:43 AMTwo things I wanted to mention, first the description of the Derelict. At first I thought, what the hell was he smoking, putting the Jockey in the egg chamber? But then I got to thinking, just because their is a helmeted engineer in a chair in an egg chamber does not mean he is the same engineer we see in Alien. It kind of sounds like Anne and Russ are down a level in the big egg chamber from the movie Alien and that the Jockey would be above them. We have never seen the far ends of the egg chamber, maybe another helmeted engineer is stationed there in another big chair, perhaps to monitor the eggs?.... Well maybe I'm grabbing at straws, I'd like to know what Golden has to say.
They do go downstairs, but then they come back
up before finding the jockey. The way it was written made it sound like the room from
Alien and Golden just screwed up.
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Dec 08, 2014, 05:13:43 AMSecond the book makes it sound like the colony sent out a message asking for help. What happened to losing radio contact and it just may be a downed transmitter? Was Burke lying, or was the signal somehow blocked? :-\
I don't think Burke was lying. It looks like he's just as clueless about the colony's fate as everyone else - you can see it in his face when he gets there.
I think the scientist blocked the signal, it would make sense since they held off so long with everything else.
and HuD i know what you mean. the lone colonist could have gotten her own story with ending she opened her eyes and saw marines or something.
I found the first half excellent, the second half pretty poor. Hated the Newt's Tale angle and would be interested to know if he was contractually obliged to include it. I only ask because if you take that aspect out, plus the copy and paste chapters from Aliens, we are left with a very, very short book indeed.
What strikes me is that Golden seems to have a lack of passion for the franchise compared to Jim Moore and Tim Lebbon. That may sound harsh and I'm sure he's a fan, but his writing makes this seem far less of a passion project for him than it was for the other two authors in this trilogy.
I hate the way the colonists just keep letting the chest bursters hatch. It's completely nonsensical. They already admit they cannot help them, so why not simply incinerate them all? I know Dr. Reese wanted specimens, but they already had a live face hugger contained.
I liked Brackett. His characterisation was very good and his portrayal of the Jordan family was also excellent. But it seems to be an ironic trend for me that with so many Aliens novels, things start off so well and go downhill when the aliens actually arrive on the scene.
I liked the exploration of the juggernaut, though I was hoping for a lot more. I really wanted chapters of Dr. Reese and his team going back and exploring the derelict in detail with some more Prometheus stuff and some accelerant. The fact they all die in the end would not harm continuity in any way and the secret of the space jockeys would still be preserved.
I'm gonna have to read this again in order to form a final opinion but this book just had me completely polarised. But I will say this has been a highly enjoyable trilogy of books, much better than the Dark Horse run. I just wish more of an effort had been made to link Prometheus in as like it or not, it's a part of this series now.
Out of the Shadows - Would have removed Ripley and Ash, changed the dog aliens to another Engineer outpost and weapons cache.
Sea of Sorrows - Would not have had the Auriga crash cause so much devastation on Earth. That aspect was ridiculous considering Ripley went to such lengths to stop the alien reaching Earth to avoid such a disaster.
River of Pain - I wouldn't have followed Newt's tale. I would have had a more scientific exploration of the derelict before the shit hit the fan at the colony. I don't think I would have had Brackett and the girl survive either. I know it doesn't exactly break continuity, but it seems odd now watching Aliens knowing that a good faction of the colonists survived. I also would have had some colonists survive until literally hours before Ripley and the marines arrived.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Dec 08, 2014, 01:22:45 PMRiver of Pain - I wouldn't have followed Newt's tale. I would have had a more scientific exploration of the derelict before the shit hit the fan at the colony. I don't think I would have had Brackett and the girl survive either. I know it doesn't exactly break continuity, but it seems odd now watching Aliens knowing that a good faction of the colonists survived. I also would have had some colonists survive until literally hours before Ripley and the marines arrived.
Totally condone all of this.
Just finished it. Overall I liked it, I'd give it 7/10. I do have some medium sized gripes though as follows:
Movie scenes:
Spoiler
Hated them, every Ripley scene felt padding to make the book longer. Really did not like the way she instantly figures Burke out.
Prometheus:
Spoiler
Engineer ripped the brain out of a Queen? Really? Did he copy this pose straight out of AVP:R? I was very excited to see inside the derelict, but then all of the dead aliens and "exo suit" references made me wish it had been empty
.
Short story:
This is a short story, virtually a Newt's tale write up with a couple of chapters characterisation, I didn't feel like I got much bang for my buck here (at least it was only £3 on kindle) like others I think they could have drawn this out into a protracted survival story, it all seems to be over in virtually 24 hours.
The over-riding reason these points (especially the length) is because the quality of the writing and characterisation is very high, and I was left just wishing there was more, and that the padding movie chapters were original content.
Quote from: Xenoscream on Dec 09, 2014, 05:20:04 PM
Prometheus:
Spoiler
Engineer ripped the brain out of a Queen? Really? Did he copy this pose straight out of AVP:R? I was very excited to see inside the derelict, but then all of the dead aliens and "exo suit" references made me wish it had been empty.
Wait.. what? THAT happened in the book? I'm not a fan of the Aliens, but I can tell you that doesn't sit too well with me.
Spoiler
Is anyone else starting to think they're trying to really push the Engineers as these Uber-Boss types now? I mean considering how large and tall a Queen is, I would think these types of Xenomorphs would be able to overpower an Engineer. How is this scene explained anyway?
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 09, 2014, 10:14:03 PMSpoiler
Is anyone else starting to think they're trying to really push the Engineers as these Uber-Boss types now? I mean considering how large and tall a Queen is, I would think these types of Xenomorphs would be able to overpower an Engineer. How is this scene explained anyway?
Spoiler
They're both dead and fossilised, but the Engineer has his hand right down the Queen's gob.
I really dont care for engineers beign creaters they were better as the space jockey. I loved prometheus but the engineers take somethign away from the aliens
So question...
Spoiler
Who forgot about the PDTs? Honestly, please.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 10, 2014, 10:29:41 AM
So question...
Spoiler
Who forgot about the PDTs? Honestly, please.
Spoiler
All of them apparently, they could have come up with a better explanation, I think Anne even mentions them at some point earlier in the story. One aspect I did like of the story was that if they could have just got a handle on things a bit earlier then they would have been able to contain the Xenos, it seemed it was just their overwhelming number in the end which they were unable to cope with.
Also Anne was thinking my go-to escape plan (get in a crawler and drive away) all the time, should have done it!
I meant when reading. Who forgot.
Well not me then :-) Like I say I'm pretty sure there was a reminder right near the beginning.
The first thing that came to my mind when colonists started to disappear was, check the damn PDTs! It was kind of frustrating that a whole colony didn't clue in until later.
Quote from: Perfect-Organism on Dec 11, 2014, 06:12:59 AMThe first thing that came to my mind when colonists started to disappear was, check the damn PDTs! It was kind of frustrating that a whole colony didn't clue in until later.
I guess it would depend on how regularly they have to use them on a day-to-day basis. If they frequently have to locate people by their PDTs, yeah, forgetting about them in this situation is pretty dumb. If they literally never use them and they're just some over-the-top health and safety thing, it's not so far-fetched that everyone forgot about them.
It's mentioned fairly early on that they are used to track "Wildcatters" who go off and explore. Tbh I can get in the stress of an Alien attack which mainly takes place over 12 hours they could be forgotten, for some time, or at least being able to get to the right place, set up whatever they need etc could be impractical.
If they had used them sooner it wouldn't have made a difference.
It caused a facepalm on my behalf. It was just the blasé way it was handled.
Thought about picking this up today because I was looking for a science fiction book to read now that I'm on break from school. Is there some action in this novel? The whole background of LV-426 interest me a lot, and I did read a small section of Newt and her father with the whole
Spoiler
Chestburster exploding out of him
The three books I had in mind were Halo: Fall of Reach, Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan, and this. Aliens: No exit seems to have a cool plot.
Alien: No Exit really becomes a let-down in the final third.
Quote from: R Lar on Dec 11, 2014, 11:56:46 PMIs there some action in this novel?
The second half is pretty action packed, but there isn't much prior to this.
I would recommend picking it up, its a decent book , no exit was.. alright if i remember correctly, i read it once years ago and never re read it, its in my collection somewhere. In comparison ive reread earth hive, nightmare assylum and female war loads of times
My copy finally came in the mail today. I'm looking forward to diving in!
Quote from: Nazrel on Dec 12, 2014, 07:36:07 PM
I would recommend picking it up, its a decent book , no exit was.. alright if i remember correctly, i read it once years ago and never re read it, its in my collection somewhere. In comparison ive reread earth hive, nightmare assylum and female war loads of times
No Exit started really well. It was this story of a psychologically damaged detective hunting down Aliens. It started so well and was really interesting but then the second half descended into an over-blown Aliens-esque book in which a dude beats up an Alien. Really disappointed me.
Anyway! I've just uploaded my own review of the book onto the website.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-river-of-pain/ (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/literature/reviews/alien-river-of-pain/)
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 15, 2014, 07:49:39 PM
a dude beats up an Alien.
As in.. hand to hand or.. with a blunt weapon? :o
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 15, 2014, 07:54:10 PM
Hand to hand.
Please tell me it wasn't a Kung-Fu fight.. Either way.. just.. WHAT?!
I wept. I wept so much. I had so very much enjoyed the first two thirds of that book. And I would recommend people pick it up if only to experience that.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Dec 15, 2014, 07:59:43 PM
Please tell me it wasn't a Kung-Fu fight.. Either way.. just.. WHAT?!
Nah - nothing like that. Just a beating.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 15, 2014, 08:00:34 PM
Nah - nothing like that. Just a beating.
But wouldn't a Xenomorph be able to shrug off punches, even from a peak conditioned human?
It should. Which is why it ruined the end of No Exit.
We're gonna be doing a follow-up chat with Chris soon so throw your questions in if you've got any.
Why were the scenes from the Special Edition changed?
Who's idea was it to include the Newt's Tale scenes?
Why the subtle, yet consistent changes to the text that characters say in the Aliens film?
I forgot that River of Pain came out at the end of November instead of end of December. :( Anyway, I just finished it and I have to say I LOVED how the story references not only the new Fire and Stone series but also that it stays true to the canon of Newt's Tale. I know a lot of people like to pretend the EU never existed but I like to think that this is the story's way of reinforcing that it did.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Dec 17, 2014, 08:59:07 PM
Who's idea was it to include the Newt's Tale scenes?
^This, when you interview the author.
Ask about the PDT stuff.
Also, I think others have mentioned the colonists having super-weapons, which doesn't sound like it gels with Apone's mention of "small arms fire" and improvised "seismic survey charges" - whose idea was that and why remove such an element which would have heightened the sense of desperation and tension?
I would like to know his thoughts on the loss of communications with Gateway Station mentioned in the movie. Was the request for help blocked or somehow intercepted?
Any basic information on Brackett, How old is he, where was he born, Ect.
There are both Pulse rifles and Plasma rifles mentioned, do the marines have both or was it a typo. I have a hard time believing their were Phased Plasma rifles at Hedley's Hope.
Was the egg chamber and Jockey in the same area simple a mistake or did he have something else in mind their that we didn't understand?
Is their any plan of a follow up with Louisa and Brackett?
Quote from: DemonicD13 on Dec 19, 2014, 11:41:41 AMI have a hard time believing their were Phased Plasma rifles at Hedley's Hope.
In the 40 watt range?
Seriously though, good questions, I second them.
Well no of course not in the 40 Watt range, that would just be silly. :laugh:
Thanks for posting your review. I'm a third of the way through and don't see why every third chapter is a scene from the beginning of Aliens, which just seems like filler. At this point, the only people who are going to read these novels know the entire damn movie by heart. I understand interspersing the film's events into the narrative, but only if the juxtaposition offered something new, like Burke conniving and giggling maniacally to himself in his (comically dated 80's) office or Hicks revving up his vintage Trans-Am in a barn somewhere before getting the call to report for duty.
I don't intend to be entirely negative, because I agree with the 7/10 rating. Mr. Golden has a gift for imbuing his characters with depth while maintaining a brisk narrative pacing. The birth of Newt was something I wouldn't think we need to see as fans, but after reading the passage found it moving. One major gripe though: in Golden's timeline Newt is six years old, which means she either skipped a grade to earn that 2nd Grade citizenship award or someone didn't do their homework.
Also, one passage that stood out, and I'm paraphrasing: "He didn't earn the Galactic Cross just to deal with corporate stooges". A space setting doesn't necessitate placing a space prefix before everything. Did Brackett earn the Cosmic Bronze Star as well? I assume that the military, being stubbornly traditional, would still retain the medal names we have today.
It calms down soon, don't worry. But it bookends with bits from Aliens to connect it to the film.
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/11/christopher-golden-christopher-roberson-interview-aliens (http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/11/christopher-golden-christopher-roberson-interview-aliens)
Just found this. Interesting read.
Quote...but my focus was mostly on the scenes of Newt and her family from the Extended Edition of Cameron's Aliens...
So why the f*ck didn't they tie up with those scenes?
I finished River of Pain last night, and I have to say that the Titan trilogy, for me, peaked right at the start with Out of the Shadows. RoP was fairly good, and definitely didn't leave me as unsatisfied as Sea of Sorrows, but certain elements of the book didn't work for me. Full thoughts, with spoilers, below.
Spoiler
First, the good. Golden, like Jim Moore, was smart to hold off on the alien action until the midway point. The way he sets up just how hostile LV-426 is, and the strain that that takes on the colonists, is one of the book's strengths. I'm very much looking forward to seeing if the stuff with the Arcturians comes more into play in the Rage War. Similarly, he does a good job writing the Jordens without it becoming cheesy or fan fiction-y. Brackett is a nice main character as well, though I would have liked to have seen a bit more remorse for how he was essentially responisble for what happened to the Jordens. It was there, but I would have liked to have seen his flaws and mistakes given more room to air out. Hoop still stands as my favorite main character of the trilogy.
As for the bad, I'm just not sure that it was necessary to change the universe as much as they did here. The secret escape ship read like something from one of the lesser DHP novels, and though it felt more earned, the Colonial Marines-esque ending felt useless, unless there winds up being a sequel with Brackett and company. Similarly, the cameos from Derrick Russel and the FaS characters were a nice treat, but ultimately I don't think it really worked. How The Company just missed what was going on with the jungle on LV-223 defies reason. On the same note, including the marines felt more forced than anything, as the story would have arguably been better if it had just starred colonists coping to survive. So, a lot of the premises behind the book felt needlessly over-complicated, and this is coming from someone who liked Ripley in Out of the Shadows.
All being said, I liked the book well enough, but it felt a bit unnecessary. I'm looking forward to Lebbon continuing the 25th century side of things in the Rage War.
A couple other points:
Spoiler
I really enjoyed how Golden handled Marachek, IE not actually having him as a character. The scene where the marine grills the researcher about how they got the living facehugger was one of the best in the book, and that kind of handling is what separates a well-written book from fan fiction.
As far as the Derelict, I didn't hate what Golden did. It wasn't as new or as exciting as the dog-alien ship scenes in OotS, but Anne and Russ's reactions to what they found were nice. The Engineer and alien queen locked in their death struggle bordered on cool and cheesy, but given what we've seen of the Engineers and the xenomorphs in FaS, the whole idea of a battle on the Derelict works well enough.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 08, 2015, 09:40:40 PMSpoiler
I really enjoyed how Golden handled Marachek, IE not actually having him as a character. The scene where the marine grills the researcher about how they got the living facehugger was one of the best in the book, and that kind of handling is what separates a well-written book from fan fiction.
I actually hated that scene. The Marine's reaction was yet another example of characters leaping straight to conclusions the reader knows to be true, but the characters themselves have no real evidence to suggest. The minute he saw that he knew what was going on, yet nothing before that suggested the colonists had to have been killed, nor was there any evidence it was intentional on the part of the scientists.
Hadn't they seen the acid blood at this point?
Yes, but I don't remember them seeing anything to suggest taking off a Facehugger was fatal. Difficult, yes, but not necessarily terminal. Even if someone had died in the process, there was nothing to suggest it couldn't have been an accident borne out of desperation.
Whilst I definitely agree with you about the conclusion jumping, I don't think that one was too much of a stretch. It would have been better if it'd been shown.
BTW we've got the Chris Golden interview back. I'm awaiting some response to follow-up and I need to get it all pretty but it should be up over the weekend. He didn't really want to talk about the mistakes so...that wasn't talked about.
He didn't want to talk about the mistakes? Now that's mature... -.-" It's just annoying me that his book had the most mistakes, and the most important ones! The worst thing is, the mistakes in his book were the hardest ones to make, it's one thing when someone forgets a set piece or some data from dialog in previous movies that interferes with what you're writing now, but here he had to just copy the dialog and look of the characters, and the obvious Jockey ship layout. It really does ruin the immersion.
About the dialogue changes, I've been wondering: could that be a legal thing? Is a writer able to grab Cameron's dialogue whole-cloth and then say, 'written by Christopher Golden'? Something to think about, anyway...
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jan 10, 2015, 07:03:27 PMAbout the dialogue changes, I've been wondering: could that be a legal thing? Is a writer able to grab Cameron's dialogue whole-cloth and then say, 'written by Christopher Golden'? Something to think about, anyway...
But some of the scenes
were verbatim...
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 10, 2015, 07:12:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Jan 10, 2015, 07:03:27 PMAbout the dialogue changes, I've been wondering: could that be a legal thing? Is a writer able to grab Cameron's dialogue whole-cloth and then say, 'written by Christopher Golden'? Something to think about, anyway...
But some of the scenes were verbatim...
Ah, didn't realize... I only remember the errors. :D
Quote from: janenad on Jan 10, 2015, 05:40:14 PM
He didn't want to talk about the mistakes? Now that's mature... -.-" It's just annoying me that his book had the most mistakes, and the most important ones! The worst thing is, the mistakes in his book were the hardest ones to make, it's one thing when someone forgets a set piece or some data from dialog in previous movies that interferes with what you're writing now, but here he had to just copy the dialog and look of the characters, and the obvious Jockey ship layout. It really does ruin the immersion.
I was a little disappointed that he didn't want to but I guess there's only so much fan outrage you can take. To be fair to him, he did say he'd got mistakes he'd like to go back and fix but *shrugs*.
I still enjoyed the novel despite those mistakes - as easy as they were to makes. I've yet to read the perfect Aliens novel. And I'm still dying for it.
I think the errors are doubly disappointing in this one because the fall of Hadley's Hope is such a pivotal story that we've all waited a long time to hear.
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=52115.0 (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=52115.0)
Interview is up now.
What exactly are these mistakes people are referring to?
Overall i really enjoyed this.The Aliens were really well portrayed, especially the stealth aspect, how well they adapted to their shadowy industrial surroundings and the danger of the acid blood in the close confines where most of the action took place.
Just a few random observations...
I do think there was enough potential story there for a longer book, especially with the use of chapters from the films as a contextual framing, but the page count probably wasn't the author's choice anyway.We could have had a few more in-depth colonist characters, more scenes at the derelict and more fleshing out of some of the scenes we did get.I'd like to have seen more of the marines and administration guys efforts to track down the Aliens early on, before the PDT'S were remembered and used.There was about a day and a half/two days there that could have been more elaborated on.Some stuff about the Marines trying to secure and scour the duct system would have had great potential.
I didn't notice the Marines using any smart guns or motion trackers.It probably wouldn't have made much difference to many of the encounters, but i would have expected to have at least the motion trackers mentioned and used for the scenes later on between the team that went over to attack the hive and the ones left guarding the sealed D-block perimeter.Maybe they did get used during the hunt for the hive, once the colonists were all secured in various locations, but we didn't get to see that.
The conclusion to the Draper arc left me a bit let down.As soon as i knew some of the newt's tale scenes were being used\reworked, i had a good idea of how he was going to die(and that was a great scene when did happen in slightly reworked fashion), but when he finds out about the escape ship and abandons Brackett with the survivors of the team(not sure they would have just gone along with him closing the lift on the cap and abandoning him tbh) i expected to see more of that group of marines\things go a different way.but no, we just get the newts tale-esque death as his only other appearance.Not sure how i felt about that.I would have liked him as a point-of-view character had the book been longer, or even a chapter or two from his perspective after he abandons Brackett, following his failed attempt to get to the escape craft.
Lastly, between the revelations of the amount of Aliens killed in this, and the escape of the colonists in the Onager with the fire and stone arc, what do you think the numbers were in the hive by the time Ripley, Burke and co. get there?.I've not read fire and stone yet, so i don't know how many colonists got away on the onager, but i'm guessing there were about 15-20 or so killed for sure without being facehugged in ROP, and about 20-25 Aliens killed by the Marines.
I'm thinking there would be roughly 90-100 in the hive when Gorman's team gets there?.It all seems to work out quite well.No glaring errors like the marines mowing down scores and scores of Aliens.They were a deadly and well portrayed threat in this.
I thought the book was pretty good overall. I didn't seem to notice or be bothered by as many of the mistakes as some people were. Usually those things don't bother me too much compared to other people unless it is something really massive and not just a word of dialogue or small detail. I take it as a separate piece of entertainment and don't expect everything to be exactly the same.
One thing I didn't like was how the marines apparently handled the derelict when they were sent out to secure it following the Jorden's accident. Knowing the danger of what had happened to Russ, they apparently still went right in and got a dozen or so people facehugged? WTF? It just seemed way to forced in order to boost the alien number for the colony takeover. And then like someone else said they just let all of the chestbursters come out with only minimal attempt to stop them.
And like some others have said, the parts with Ripley at beginning and end I found to be not necessary and rather redundant. We all know the content here and it seemed to be only for filler. If they wanted to use some for connection reasons then just have a page or two, but not the amount that they had at the beginning and end.
I have to admit, I read the book and found it... kinda flat.
I am a massive fan of the aliens series, and have been for decades. Ever since I first started reading the Bantam/ Dark Horse novels in the early 90s based on the comics of the time, I think it's safe to say that every book I bought, I read within a couple of days.
River of Pain took a lot longer.
It's not that it was a bad book, it's just that it wasn't great, considering the potential.
It offered very little to the series, and in my eyes tells a tale that we already knew in one respect or another. Pieces lifted straight from the script of the film itself felt they were in for little or no reason, other than to remind us it ties in to another movie.
The main story itself took something like 150 pages to kick in, and in all honesty, there's nothing great there, content wise. A lot of characters felt 'meh', as if they're were in there because they have to be, because they're there in the film. It's a different take on the comic "adaption" of the film, Newt's Tale, which is I felt was better in many aspects of the tale. After reading the previous two books of the new series and their original tales, and then reading the synopsis of this book before it was released, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that they'd balked from the new original stories and retold what we knew already: Surveyors went somewhere they were told, guy got tagged by a facehugger, colony falls.
Questions were left unanswered: the most important one -
Spoiler
What happened to Casey's body?
Something that did strike me as odd, as that Newt doesn't talk or act like any 6-7 year old I know. I guess you mature quicker in space...
Quote from: Machiko Naguchi on May 02, 2015, 04:08:39 PM
I thought the book was pretty good overall. I didn't seem to notice or be bothered by as many of the mistakes as some people were. Usually those things don't bother me too much compared to other people unless it is something really massive and not just a word of dialogue or small detail. I take it as a separate piece of entertainment and don't expect everything to be exactly the same.
One thing I didn't like was how the marines apparently handled the derelict when they were sent out to secure it following the Jorden's accident. Knowing the danger of what had happened to Russ, they apparently still went right in and got a dozen or so people facehugged? WTF? It just seemed way to forced in order to boost the alien number for the colony takeover. And then like someone else said they just let all of the chestbursters come out with only minimal attempt to stop them.
And like some others have said, the parts with Ripley at beginning and end I found to be not necessary and rather redundant. We all know the content here and it seemed to be only for filler. If they wanted to use some for connection reasons then just have a page or two, but not the amount that they had at the beginning and end.
I still don't get what any of these "mistakes" are? ???
From the top of my head, I remember one glaring mistake within the Derelict.
There was no hole for the characters to go down and find the huge chamber with the eggs, instead the eggs were surrounding the Space Jockey's seat.
I think someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread. If you are familiar with the films, it can be a tad bit distracting. So when I got to that part, I just pretended they found the hole and rappelled down to find the eggs...
There could be some other bloopers, but that was one that is memorable to me.
Edit: And I remember the author repeatedly calling the Pulse Rifles "plasma rifles" when they aren't plasma rifles. Sea of Sorrows has actual Plasma Rifles that shoot plasma. Pulse Rifles do not shoot plasma.
Quote from: predxeno on May 02, 2015, 10:36:03 PMI still don't get what any of these "mistakes" are? ???
If you know
Aliens well, the book was full of things that don't correlate to what we see in the film.
I can't remember much of the book and the way it unfolds, but I'm pretty sure in the film they talk about seismic charges and small arms fire... Small arms wouldn't include plasma or pulse rifles. But like I say, my in-depth memory of the book isn't great for the details, just the overall feel of it.
Quote from: predxeno on May 02, 2015, 10:36:03 PM
I still don't get what any of these "mistakes" are? ???
The major mistake is in the Derelict, as mentioned above. Golden merges the egg chamber and pilot chamber together into one room. It was a genuine mistake on his part but it was just so glaring.
The rest of the mistakes are smaller but still quite noticeable. Small dialogue errors, the weaponry as mentioned above.
My biggest issue was the inclusion of the marines. He wrote them into the story really well and I loved Brackett but I just couldn't get over them being there.
However, I loved everything about the colonists. About the frontier life and Golden's view on the whole W-Y knew all along thing. Despite the mistakes, I still enjoyed the book and rate it above any of the DH Press ones.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 03, 2015, 01:35:24 PMMy biggest issue was the inclusion of the marines. He wrote them into the story really well and I loved Brackett but I just couldn't get over them being there.
I know it was written as a build-up to
Aliens, so I guess the
Aliens influence was basically inevitable, but part of me really wishes he'd dropped the Marines completely and gone for more of a horror-based, blue collar guys vs. Xenomorphs scenario, more like
Alien but simply with more players on each side. I think seeing the colonists trying to cope
without the perceived safety net of trained soldiers to fall back on would've been far more engrossing. If you wanted guys with guns hanging around he could always have taken some pointers from
Alien: Isolation and thrown in a couple of Colonial Marshals, whose presence would be a lot easier to justify.
I completely agree. I would have quite liked to have seen Colonial Marshalls myself but I guess there was no overlap between Titan or Creative Assembly. And there is the fact that it was another one of those Fox mandated inclusions handed down.
I feel the same. As soon as Colonial Marines get involved, I know it's gonna be another by-the-numbers, wise-crackin' cigar-chompin' Aliens clone. Opening up the universe a bit and giving us Colonial Marshalls, like Outland meets Aliens, would have been a lot more interesting.
Still the most enjoyable book of the three, though.
Like I said earlier, my biggest problem was when the marines went to the derelict. They were supposed to guard it to keep more bad shit from happening and somehow a dozen or so come back with facehuggers. That seemed highly implausible to me and was done just to boost the alien numbers for the takeover. Anybody else find that annoying?
True marines aren't usually very smart and maybe a curious one would have wondered inside the egg chamber, but they are also pretty good about following orders so I don't think the entire group would have just walked right in after they knew what had happened to Russ.
Yeah, that was one of the things that struck me as particularly dumb.
Maybe if they'd added some kind of explanation whereby the W-Y scientists set it up to further their "research", then that would've made it a little more plausible, but leaving it unexplained just made the Marines seem like retards.
I've been binge reading all of the books in this trilogy.
Enjoyed Shadows (and the audio book version too) and Sorrows too.
River of Pain has taken a while to get going but the chapter with Russ & Anne Jorden exploring the Derelict is interesting.
Spoiler
So given these books are now considered canon we now have the Derelict having a crew who fought and lost(?) a battle with their cargo ... in that the original space jockey wasn't alone. There was a queen on board who was killed in battle by an engineer which she slayed in the process.
Thoughts on this especially given we know Covenant is bringing the Engineers back and according to Ridley will be the bridge to Alien.
Spoiler
The new films won't be constrained by what the novels have done, so if Ridley wants to tell the story of the Derelict, it will be different. That being said, I really liked the image of the queen and the Engineer mummified in their death struggle.
Wow!
Ok sorry for the necro post, but I had to say this, and it didn't seem like a good idea to start a whole new thread just for this comment.
I read river of pain about a week ago, and I liked it. Wasn't my favorite but it wasn't terrible either.
Ok, so while river of pain was still fresh in my mind I went ahead and read newts tale for the first time today. And wow! Whole new level of respect for this book now seeing how true the author stayed to newts tale. I loved that!
There were quite a number of differences and both wasted opportunities to tie closer to the source material.
Um, did I hit a nerve? Yea I saw the differences between the two, but I was impressed that the author even bothered with newts tale and getting a lot of the dialogue, events and character names incorporated into his story. Unless that was a requirement from fox, I think it showed a greater level of effort to keep the lore consistent and the older comics relevent. I appreciated that; that's all. I also attribute the differences to the fact that in newts tale the story is prefaced as a dream of newts; dreams get distorted. :-)
But I have to ask, what do you mean by tie in better with the source material? Sounds like you have something specific in mind? Like not having the marines onsite? Or not going with scientists and a secret escape pod? Those details drove me crazy... but nothing really bothered me that much in newts tale by itself... just curious.
The marked lack of the last stand in ops, no mention of the last colonist they find in the hive, maybe tie some of the fighting into the damage the marines find. Both novel and comic missed all that interesting stuff completely. The latter also almost completely glossed over Newt's surviving on her own, in favour of inexplicably re-writing Aliens.
No 'nerve hit'. River Of Pain was my favourite of that novel trilogy.
Oh I see.
In that case I agree. I would have liked seeing, or rather reading, more about the mayhem we only saw the aftermath of too. But I wasn't totally disappointed in the lack of it.
I did think it was weird that newts tale made some changes, like cutting through the side of the vents in their last-stand moment. But I forgive it, since again, it was prefaced as a dream.
I'd also like to see more of newt surviving on her own, it's a shame we haven't yet. But would probably be remarkably challenging to pull that off in an interesting way that keeps most (especially casual) readers interested. I always though that an alien isolation format game would be the perfect medium to tell that story effectively.
My favorite in the trilogy was out of the shadows, and ironically it's the one I was most skeptical of.
Newt's Tale would be a great DLC for Isolation.
Agreed. I don't think there's enough there for a full standalone game, but a mini campaign of sorts would be awesome!
Depends on how its presented. Newt isn't going to be building bombs and flamethrowers, but she can press buttons and fit in smaller places. She's never going to be on the offensive - it's all about evasion.
Yea that plus I always thought it be interesting in the sense that:
A) she wouldn't get a motion tracker
B) as a small child the perspective is different. The aliens would look bigger; Hallways turn into wide open spaces, and air vents turn into hallways, essentially.
He SM! I have a burning question for you related to the thread topic!
So it was pretty recently I read river of pain, about a week ago, so it's still pretty fresh in my mind.
Today I just started reading Alan dean foster's adaptation of aliens. I'm at the part where they find the facehuggers in the stasis tubes. When they looked at the files they named the patient and attending physician. They also mentioned that the physician was one of 3 doctors in the colony.
So here's my question. Do the number of doctors (not scientists) align with river of pain? What about the names mentioned in ADF's adaptation? It's honestly been a while since I've watched the movie so I can't even recall if the names were mentioned onscreen. But as for river of pain, I can't remember the names of the smaller side characters well enough to tell right off the bat if it lines up. I thought you might be a good person to ask :-)
No, Chester Ling was missing from the novel unfortunately. And I don't recall the novel saying how they caught the live huggers either. And I don't think it mentioned anyone called Marachuk too.
This is a list of personnel I did for a job a while back that combines the film, novelization, Newt's Tale and River of Pain (and even then I've probably missed people).
W Al Simpson – Manager
M Brad Lydecker – Asst. Manager
Greg Hansard – Chief engineer 2165
Najit – TF engineer 2165
Nguyen – TF engineer 2165
Mendez – TF engineer 2165
Russell Jorden – Wildcatter
Anne Jorden
Tim Jorden
Rebecca Jorden
Dr Theodora Komiskey – MO (f)
Samantha Monet
Otto Finch – wildcatter
Curtis Finch – wildcatter
Bronagh Flaherty – Cook
Meznick
Generazio
Dr Mori – science (arrived circa 2163)
Dr Bartholomew Reese - science
Dr Elena Hidalgo – science
Derrick Bradford/ Russell – OIC terraforming
Luisa Cantrell – child
Aaron – child
Nolan Cale – wildcatter/ prospector
Neela Parvati (f)
Mina Osterman – plant architect 129
Jiro – botanist
Joel Asher – nurse 18-19
Mrs Hernandez
Stefan Gruenwald – wildcatter
Khati Fuqua – science assistant
'Bluejay' – surveyor
Saida Warsi (f)
Wes Navarro – science assistant
Volk – orderly
Zak Li – musician
Mo Whiting – exobiologist (f)
Bill Andrews – surveyor
Lizzie Russo
Genevieve Dione – greenhouse supervisor
Virgil – welder
Ramona – pilot
Luiz – prospector
Meyers – prospector
Carl – prospector
Standish
John J Marachuk
Dr Chester O Ling
Marines
Captain Demian Brackett
Lt Julisa Paris
Sgt Coughlin
Sgt Marvin Draper
Pvt Ankita Yousseff
Pvt Stamovich
Cpl Aldo Crowley
Pvt Boris Chenovski
Pvt Hauer
Nguyen
Cpl. Pettigrew
Jimmy Valente
Joplin Konig
Ginzler
Sixto
Pvt Dunphy
Izzo
Ok now, wtf! What job a while back called for you to make this list? It wasn't the WY report... right? Something else in the works??
That's unfortunate, but thanks for confirming. That would've been so much cooler if river of pain had stayed consistent with ADFs novel too.
And when you say the novel never says how they caught the living face huggers, which novel are you referring to? River of pain? The movie adaptation? Or both?
Yeah River of Pain doesn't mention it (as far as I can remember).
The list wasn't for WYR, it was for something else and just used for my own reference. The proper version is all colour-coded to reflect the source and has page numbers everywhere (some of which I accidentally left on above).
Nope! I remember that clearly. River of pain never mentioned how the huggers were caught. I was a little disappointed with that. I always assumed they were caught while removing them from the colonists, at least that's how the movie seemed to imply it...
Soooo this "something else," is it something new, on the way you can't talk about yet or something?
On another note, river of pain DID keep consistent with one thing from ADFs novel (that I've read so far anyway), that was a nice touch. I remember being a little weirded out by the idea that several atmosphere processors were scattered across the surface of lv 426. Mainly because I would be surprised that the derelict remained hidden that whole time if the colony's operation was that wide spread. But now I see ADF mentioned that too... I still find it weird, but within the realm of reason considering the ship aesthetics and being partially covered by lava flows.
QuoteNope! I remember that clearly.
I'll take you're word for it. It's been a while since I read it.
QuoteSoooo this "something else," is it something new, on the way you can't talk about yet or something?
The bolded one.
The AP station thing came from the script. Burke said there was thirty or so, but that dialogue was ultimately dropped.
Ok in that case, I'll drop the probing of upcoming things ;-) but now I'm very curious and looking forward to it!
That's interesting that the dialog was dropped about the processors from the movie. I wonder why...
Thanks for sharing! So one more question. In the list of people at Hadley's hope, from all 4 sources, It looks like 2 medical doctors/physicians are named: one from ADFs book and one from river of pain. ADF said there were 3. So I can believe that the one named in ADFs book was never around in the story from river of pain. That would leave the 3rd unnamed at this point. Does that hold true? Or did river of pain say there were more physicians than that, or did I miss one or more people in your list that were doctors?
I think Komiskey was the only medical doctor mentioned in RoP. The others (Hidalgo, Reese, Mori) were all part of the science team. I'm sure there is space for Ling to be 'off screen' (or 'page' rather), it just would've been nice to tie the book closer to the film and novelization rather than, say, Newt's Tale. Even then the Doctor in Newt's Tale is a guy with a beard and not Komiskey.
Ok cool. So they don't reference each other, but at least they don't contradict each other in that way either. As for the beard... well, perhaps the 3rd doctor, or distorted dream again? Lol
Sorry I had another thought I'd like to share...
I skimmed through the rest of the thread, and saw a lot of complaints about a specific inconsistency between river of pain and the movie: apone clearly says "small arms" damage, while in river of pain they're running around with pulse rifles (or apparently plasma rifles). I was bugged by this too...
However, ADF keeps referring to damage to the complex from what looks like pulse rifle fire.
Interesting...
Maybe those rifles count as small arms? Or the major fighting areas with the marines weren't seen on screen?
Quote from: SM on May 24, 2017, 10:27:14 PM
Maybe those rifles count as small arms? Or the major fighting areas with the marines weren't seen on screen?
Yea I was starting to think that "small arms" really meant everything from pulse rifle down to hand guns. I'd assume larger arms would have included the smart guns, and RPGs and such; things normal colonists likely wouldn't have... nor would a small marine squad assignment ;-)
Wow! I just finished reading ADFs adaptation of aliens. It was interesting to get some additional or slightly different scenes! Like the alien stinger that got Gorman, and bishop getting a brief attack while crawling through that narrow pipe.
But anyway, looks like the scene in newts tale where they get trapped in the air ducts and Hicks uses a cutting torch to make an exit in the side-wall didn't just come out of thin air... it's in ADFs book too. Must have been a change in the script once filming started...
Baffling why they included it (and other things) in Newt's Tale though.
I think the adaptation of aliens is my favorite 'alien' book so far... and I've read almost all of them by now. Lol
Quote from: Engineer on May 24, 2017, 10:37:39 PMBut anyway, looks like the scene in newts tale where they get trapped in the air ducts and Hicks uses a cutting torch to make an exit in the side-wall didn't just come out of thin air... it's in ADFs book too. Must have been a change in the script once filming started...
That happens a lot in novelisations. Because they take a while to write the author has to base it on an early version of the script, and they often don't keep up as scenes get changed or cut because they simply don't have time to take all that into account.
Foster's novelisation of
The Thing is wildly different from the film in places.
It's what makes them really interesting to read.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 25, 2017, 08:11:43 AM
Quote from: Engineer on May 24, 2017, 10:37:39 PMBut anyway, looks like the scene in newts tale where they get trapped in the air ducts and Hicks uses a cutting torch to make an exit in the side-wall didn't just come out of thin air... it's in ADFs book too. Must have been a change in the script once filming started...
That happens a lot in novelisations. Because they take a while to write the author has to base it on an early version of the script, and they often don't keep up as scenes get changed or cut because they simply don't have time to take all that into account.
Foster's novelisation of The Thing is wildly different from the film in places.
How different is "the thing" (book) from "who goes there?"
Quote from: Engineer on May 25, 2017, 01:32:16 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on May 25, 2017, 08:11:43 AM
Quote from: Engineer on May 24, 2017, 10:37:39 PMBut anyway, looks like the scene in newts tale where they get trapped in the air ducts and Hicks uses a cutting torch to make an exit in the side-wall didn't just come out of thin air... it's in ADFs book too. Must have been a change in the script once filming started...
That happens a lot in novelisations. Because they take a while to write the author has to base it on an early version of the script, and they often don't keep up as scenes get changed or cut because they simply don't have time to take all that into account.
Foster's novelisation of The Thing is wildly different from the film in places.
How different is "the thing" (book) from "who goes there?"
I haven't read all of WGT, but from what I did read, it's a totally different story with many of the same character names.
Quote from: Engineer on May 25, 2017, 01:32:16 PMHow different is "the thing" (book) from "who goes there?"
I couldn't tell you, I'm afraid, I've never read the original.
There's a pdf of it on Outpost31.com, if anyone's interested. I just haven't read mine because I keep meaning to have it printed in a shop (I like paper), and I never remember to. :P
That PDF might be gone. Outpost31 went down and is about to relaunch all spruced up for the anniversary of the movie. Some content was lost...
Oh no! Well if that's the case, I suppose I could host my copy somewhere.
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on May 25, 2017, 02:16:07 PM
Oh no! Well if that's the case, I suppose I could host my copy somewhere.
Or... it might be the site is about to go down for a relaunch. I'm not sure which.
It's worth looking for a copy though. I picked up a hard-cover copy a while back. Fantastic read.
Quote from: Engineer on May 25, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on May 25, 2017, 02:16:07 PM
Oh no! Well if that's the case, I suppose I could host my copy somewhere.
Or... it might be the site is about to go down for a relaunch. I'm not sure which.
It's worth looking for a copy though. I picked up a hard-cover copy a while back. Fantastic read.
It's also available in paperback, I happen to own this version:
https://www.amazon.com/Who-Goes-There-Novella-Formed/dp/0982332203
I just checked and outpost31 is still up and the novel still available. But better go get it fast! It's going down very soon and that novel might be lost in the shuffle!
Hicks, xenomorphine, HuDaFuk, and everyone else involved in the podcast... I have an idea for you for a future episode. I think it would be cool to hear you guys discuss the stories and compare/contrast river of pain, newts tale, ADFs adaptation and the movie. It's kind of funny, the way it worked out, newts tale is a (very) abbreviated version of what you would get if you read river of pain and ADFs adaptation back to back...
WOW, just finished listening to the Audiobook. The story is something i have talked about a few times in the forum as an idea for an additional movie. I think the post was something along the lines of "Aliens, The Fight for LV436" i had no idea there was a book that was basically what i was thinking about.
Well onto the Audio book, its almost 5 hours long but really well done, talk about a harrowing depserate fight to survive. The sneaky Weyland scientists, the marines and the colonists are really well thought out and Newt's family especially her mother, you feel it all. Some good stuff in the derelict with Newts parents.
Good sound effects although the pulse rifles are a little off but overall very good.
And lastly, poor Newt, how sad was that ending.
I've read all the three books and enjoyed both Audio dramas (Out of the Shadows & River of Pain) immensely.
Both were really well produced and acted.
Hope they do Sea of Sorrows now.
Was It River of Pain that had me entirely confused as to what the main characters encountered? It seemed to clearly be discussing an engineer ship but then took a weird left turn and had it made by dog aliens or something? It was entirely jarring.
That was Out of the Shadows.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jun 01, 2017, 06:00:09 PM
That was Out of the Shadows.
What was going on there? Were we meant to understand that another race stole a juggernaut? Or that the engineers stole it form them? Or were they meant to be engineers? Or everyone uses these ships?
Completely separate entities.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 01, 2017, 08:05:00 PM
Completely separate entities.
Was the ship intended to be the same? Because it certainly seemed like they were describing a juggernaut.
That was a different race, the Drukathi. Their ships are organic rather than biomechanical.
Quote from: Robopadna on Jun 01, 2017, 08:15:25 PMWas the ship intended to be the same? Because it certainly seemed like they were describing a juggernaut.
Not really, it's described as having wings and a giant tail fin. No Engineer ship shown in the films looks that much like a conventional aircraft.
I agree all the talk about it being organically grown had me thinking it was Engineers at first, but the reveal that it wasn't suddenly made sense of its appearance.
I envisioned it as looking more like a Wraith ship than an Engineers hip.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jun 01, 2017, 08:18:01 PM
That was a different race, the Drukathi. Their ships are organic rather than biomechanical.
Oh so they got a name. Finally, I was tired of always calling them dog-like aliens.
Have the author ever revealed more backstory on them?
They get some extra stuff throughout the Rage Wars. But they're more of a background player, if you could consider them that.
I wonder how Drukathi ship end up on LV-178 and have alien egg ?
Just finished the book after owning it a long time.
It was OK, but I had big issues with the thing that have been mentioned here already.
There was a lack of detail and a lot of goofs:
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien:_Out_of_the_Shadows_trilogy_goofs (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Alien:_Out_of_the_Shadows_trilogy_goofs)
Hated the fact that there was a platoon of marines in the colony.
Seems kind of weird that platoon (30 marines) headed by a captain (Brackett) would be rescued by a squad (12 marines) headed by a lieutenant (Gorman). Having a couple of capable marines or some marshals (ex-marines) would have been totally fine.
Hated that there were 2 escape ships in the colony, having even 1 was ridiculous. The scientist escape ship hidden in some Dexters Lab style of a compartment that no one had discovered was quite convoluted.
I think the problem with the new EU is that they make them too tightly coupled with the movies. Each small detail that is out of place will be obvious for the fans. They should really try to avoid dates because they are quite bad with that. They should just have more self-contained stories with totally new characters.
*Fixed the link. Hicks
RoP was the best story with the most mistakes.
(Not sure the dates were wrong though).
One thing I noticed with the dates (besides the problems listed in Xenopedia):
In RoP the colony has fallen on 26th of June, with Operations being massacred and Brackett leaving on the evac ship.
In Fire and Stone there are about 40 people running around in the colony on the 3rd of July, when the Onager is leaving.
You could explain this by the Onager crew (about 25% of Hadleys Hope) being holed up somewhere else for a week, and then making a final run for the Onager. But that's rather clunky.
Oh yeah. I wrote about that yonks ago, but forgot (https://alientimeline.wordpress.com/2127-2179/river-of-pain/).
Quote from: Wweyland on Jan 11, 2018, 08:41:27 PM
Seems kind of weird that platoon (30 marines) headed by a captain (Brackett) would be rescued by a squad (12 marines) headed by a lieutenant (Gorman). Having a couple of capable marines or some marshals (ex-marines) would have been totally fine.
I could forgive that simply as I always felt the company only sent the Marines in Aliens with an inexperienced LT in charge to fail their mission - in other words on the hope that they would fail, barely survive and come back with an impregnated marine or Carter Burke to scuttle an egg or two back (or probably even the company didn't care if Burke was lost in the process too).
Totally get your issues with it but I still enjoyed this and the other 2 books in the series.
Listen to the audio dramatisation - it's really good and done by the same guy who produced the Out of the Shadows one.
The biggest issue with there being a whole bunch of Marines there before the colony falls is no one in Aliens ever mentions them.
Anyone who knows anything about people in the military would know soldiers would absolutely give a shit about their brothers in arms, and there's no conceivable way or reason their presence would be kept from Gorman's squad.
It really should have just been a small group of Colonial Marshall's. It was one of those cases of Fox going "people love marines, make sure you put them into the story."
Yeah, I really wish they'd used the Marshals. Not only would it have completely fit and made sense, it would've been a nice tie-in to Isolation.
Yeah. A Colonial Marshal and a Deputy would have been a much better way to go.
Brackett could have easily been an ex Colonial Marine. Retired and seeking a quiet life out in te Frontier as a Colonial Marshal.
Would def been a nice nod to Isolation.
Other smaller things I was annoyed with:
No reference to John Marachuk.
Lydecker being mentioned only a couple of times, when he seemed to be second in command in Aliens: The Directors Cut
No seismic survey charges being used.
No last stand
Confusion with the SOS message being sent or not sent.
LV-426 having several Atmosphere Processors, but this was also referenced in the Aliens script and novel.
I will check out the Audio Drama, I really loved the Star Wars Radio Dramas a while back.
I kinda dug the idea about introducing the xeno's spewing their guts up on the colonists to paralyse them so they could be prepped for cocooning.
Interesting concept - kind of a different take on the barbed tale stinger in ADF's novelisation of Aliens (if memory serves me correct - read that back in the 1990s).
RoP was my least favorite of that trilogy. They changed too much for no real reason, and it was fairly anticlimactic. One neat thing was how it tied in with Fire and Stone, even if they got the dates wrong.
I did really like the psychological elements where the planet drives that one character crazy in the beginning.
The stuff on the Derelict was cool, too, even if the egg placement was bizarrely incorrect. The Engineer and Queen mummified in their death struggle is a cool visual.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Jan 12, 2018, 02:06:31 PM
I did really like the psychological elements where the planet drives that one character crazy in the beginning.
The frontiersman live angle was really interesting. Really dug that aspect of the early novel. It wasn't something I think we've seen a lot of in the expanded universe.
Yeah, the book had a couple if nice touches, but overall I thought it was such a missed opportunity I didn't end up liking it too much. Seemed like there was so much more hinted at in the film that really should've been in there. Marachuk, Newt trying to survive alone, the woman the Marines find alive in the hive... Overall I thought it could've/should've been a lot more tense and horrifying, instead of a poor Aliens imitation.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Jan 12, 2018, 02:41:36 PM
Yeah, the book had a couple if nice touches, but overall I thought it was such a missed opportunity I didn't end up liking it too much. Seemed like there was so much more hinted at in the film that really should've been in there. Marachuk, Newt trying to survive alone, the woman the Marines find alive in the hive... Overall I thought it could've/should've been a lot more tense and horrifying, instead of a poor Aliens imitation.
Kinda hoping Perfect Organism's new audio drama, Proximity picks up on some of those points you mentioned. Chapter 1 was good.
Bought the River of Pain story on Audible, easily one of the best Alien stories of all time for me...At chapter 25 now, I can't seem to make it past one chapter, sleep gets me everytime.
I heard the radio drama, and it's great!
Do you need to have read the previous two to read this? I'm reading the first one and it's a bit of a slog, so thought I may be best off jumping to this one since it sounds more interesting than the second.
Quote from: SpanishAdam on Aug 19, 2018, 10:15:16 AM
Do you need to have read the previous two to read this? I'm reading the first one and it's a bit of a slog, so thought I may be best off jumping to this one since it sounds more interesting than the second.
No. River of pain was a stand alone story. Nothing in out of the shadows or sea of sorrows is mentioned in river of pain. You can dive right in.
It definitely sounds like the most interesting of the three.
Unfortunately, it also does the worst job of living up to it's potential.
My opinion isn't usually swayed on certain sweeping alien-related subjects, but I have to say that my opinion of this book has somewhat diminished over time. Mostly, it's because some things just felt shoe-horned in and that just leaves a sour taste in hindsight. Other than that, the book was well enough written, with a good pace, relatable, distinguishable, and memorable characters. It was a missed opportunity in some regards but a good fun read, and an even better audible audio drama.
Yea tbh out of the shadows was the one I was most hesitant to read, but that one actually turned out to be my favorite of the three.
Out of the shadows was a book whose premise was so far fetched that it induced eye-rolling, and yet, it was so well written that, once you suspend the remainder of your disbelief, indeed it was the best book of the three.
I thought including Ripley was a terrible idea. But it worked out better than I thought it would. And thinking back on it, Tim Lebbon actually did an amazing job with ripley's Characterization; it was a good transitional piece for Ripley, somewhere between the terrified survivor of alien and the rambolina of aliens.
I'm about halfway through it and it's boring the hell out of me. I think maybe I spoiled myself by reading Cold Forge first, so Out of the Shadows just seems kinda naff. River of Pain sounds interesting though which is why I wanted to skip the second.
After that I'll need to think carefully about what I want to read next!
I'd recommend giving the audiodramas a listen. Not to be confused with the audiobooks (you'd be surprised how many people confuse the two). The audio dramas are extremely well done, and I enjoyed them more than the books actually... for all 3. I still enjoyed out of the shadows best in the audiodrama format.
Either way, cold forge was excellent, probably my favorite novel in the EU now, so yea that'll be a tough act to follow no matter what you pick up to read. I really hope the cold forge is next to get the audiodrama treatment! :-)
I'm about halfway through River of Pain so far and I am very pleased with it. Whilst Out of the Shadows was a slog to get through, this one seems to be pretty decent. It also succeeds in filling in some gaps from the movies, such as explaining how the incident in Hadley's Hope coincidentally happened around the same time as Ripley getting back to Earth.
I'm not sure I like Newt in this though. She's not too bad, but I think they're making her childlike in a cartoonish way. It doesn't spoil the story, but when I read her parts they sometimes seem slightly off.
Either way, RoP seems to be a good read so far.
It wasn't a coincidence. The incidents at Hadley happened because they found Ripley.
Quote from: SM on Sep 24, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
It wasn't a coincidence. The incidents at Hadley happened because they found Ripley.
It is funny how despite her best efforts, Ripley is an unintentional walking cause of doom, even if indirectly.
Tells the board about the Aliens, Burke uses that info and the whole colony on acheron is dead. Ripley goes back to save Newt and brings back a Queen, which leads to bringing back an Alien to fury 161 and killing everyone there. Her clone brings about the queen, they breed, auriga folks die. :laugh:
Quote from: SM on Sep 24, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
It wasn't a coincidence. The incidents at Hadley happened because they found Ripley.
^^ this
Yeah, I mean it makes perfect sense. I just never even thought about it before.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Sep 24, 2018, 08:30:03 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 24, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
It wasn't a coincidence. The incidents at Hadley happened because they found Ripley.
It is funny how despite her best efforts, Ripley is an unintentional walking cause of doom, even if indirectly.
Tells the board about the Aliens, Burke uses that info and the whole colony on acheron is dead. Ripley goes back to save Newt and brings back a Queen, which leads to bringing back an Alien to fury 161 and killing everyone there. Her clone brings about the queen, they breed, auriga folks die. :laugh:
Damn, never looked at it that way! :laugh:
"Ever She shall be the instrument of the return of the Beast, and also its destruction. The Master of two worlds."
Quote from: SM on Sep 25, 2018, 08:33:16 PM
"Ever She shall be the instrument of the return of the Beast, and also its destruction. The Master of two worlds."
Where is this quote from?
Me.