Alien TV Series From Noah Hawley and Ridley Scott CONFIRMED

[Deadmeat]

Actually, I would be most happy to watch a movie about the development of this movie. I already have the cast in mind. 

Spoiler

Owen Teale as Ridley Scott



kyle Maclachlan as Dariusz Wolski



Chris Martin as Jon Spaihts



David Cross as Damon Lindelof



Benicio del Toro as Carlos Huante



Noomi Rapace as Noomi Rapace



Helen Mirren as Janty Yates



James Cromwell as Arthur Max

[close]

something something truman show

You mean a movie about Ridley Scott doing a science fiction reality show centered on an individual who is not an actor playing a character, but rather a real person who has lived a lie all his life. His mother needed the money and she chose to sell her baby to Disney, so the child lives and grow up in a dome that simulates a space colony on another planet. He believes that he lives in the future and that he was able to create monsters using ancient alien alchemy. However, one day he discovers the truth, and Ridley Scott ends up in jail or something.

Plot twist!

Dutch was the mother.

[close]

[Immortan Jonesy]

Actually, I would be most happy to watch a movie about the development of this movie. I already have the cast in mind. 

Spoiler

Owen Teale as Ridley Scott



kyle Maclachlan as Dariusz Wolski



Chris Martin as Jon Spaihts



David Cross as Damon Lindelof



Benicio del Toro as Carlos Huante



Noomi Rapace as Noomi Rapace



Helen Mirren as Janty Yates



James Cromwell as Arthur Max

[close]

something something truman show

You mean a movie about Ridley Scott doing a science fiction reality show centered on an individual who is not an actor playing a character, but rather a real person who has lived a lie all his life. His mother needed the money and she chose to sell her baby to Disney, so the child lives and grow up in a dome that simulates a space colony on another planet. He believes that he lives in the future and that he was able to create monsters using ancient alien alchemy. However, one day he discovers the truth, and Ridley Scott ends up in jail or something.

Plot twist!

Dutch was the mother.

[close]

Spoiler

[close]

[BlueMarsalis79]

We know the Pods with the Motes within them get created by the Pathogen coming into contact with pollen, forming together in areas with sufficient moisture like fungus usually does normally, but that's an example of one I thought obvious personally.

Sources? Has that been confirmed anywhere? Even though I do consider that explanation the most plausible, you probably mean fungal spores, right? Since pollen is only plant based and we know the pathogen doesn't react much, if at all with plants.

I am certain I discussed it being depicted in storyboards with Necronomicon on this forum a year ago at most.
But I also just looked through David's Drawings and within it says he Pod's sensitive to heat, it is also explicitly stated in Alien The RPG that fire's the solution to eliminating them and that they come from incorporating pollen and other microbial elements together during creation.

This actually makes a lot of sense in terms of them being fungal in nature and the commonalities in the places of their formation:

Pollen grains absorb moisture from the air and swell. Especially after heavy rain, such as during or right after thunderstorms, swelling may cause the grains to break up and release pollen allergens outside the pollen grains.

Euniceral strains are found on countless varieties of substrate and requires acid fermentation in harsh conditions. to produce acid for its offspring. Once the spore has reached fertility, toxins are injected into the host's bloodstream or lymphatic system. If spore bacteria enters the host's circulatory system Clostridio tetani will cause a violent reaction. Clostridio is a cone shaped sanerobic species of pathogena of genus Elostridium. During infancy the organism will not survive the presence of Eunicium, it is sensitive to heat and exhibits minor mobility.

[judge death]

Ask me another one if you want to, but I have discussed this before a long time ago
Got time now, will make one question at a time to lessent he chance of missing/making it confusing as some dont like wall of texts like I do

In prometheus we saw that the black goo dont kill but mutates species it gets in contact with: Worms became those hammerpedes/snake things, and humans became those zombielike creatures when in contact with the black goo, and the more black goo a person got in contact with: the faster the transformation.
Also note all those creatures had acid for blood, and the creatures it created was immune to the black goo and can be seen even swimming in it without being harmed by it.

In covenant we see the black goo killing instead and all those space enginners/humanoids melting and dying, not becoming these strange creatures we saw in prometheus. Altough the fallout infected all wildlife as it spread later, unlike how it worked in prometheus movie. Also the creatures that it developed now didnt have acid for blood, the neomorphs have normal blood. Only Davids strain of xenos have acid.
Also now creatures that was developed by the black goo is harmed by it, not immune as they were in prometheus.

I dont find any logic to why it in one movie kills and behaves differently and in covenant doing the opposite. Only thing I can guess is that the black goo onboard the alien ship was a weapon version of the black goo, and on the planet in prometheus was a raw version but the movie didnt confirm this theory of mine so its just a guess from my side.

[BlueMarsalis79]

The dosage: the amount of Pathogen the Engineers got exposed to 2000 years ago on LV-223, and again in 2094 during deployment on the Engineer world designated as "Planet 4" by the USCSS Covenant, acted as an overdose killing the majority of them instantly and we see this in the petrified bodies full of openings on each planet. 

In the one instance we have a planet with no ecosystem to examine the effects of it on, and in the other we have a planet with an ecosystem to examine the effects of it on, if the first once used to have an ecosystem then 2000 years effectively wiped it out.

As for the blood, I am not certain, but it appears to me that their blood and salvia's simply acidic but not necessarily to the degree of the titular Alien.

In Prometheus we do see a clear liquid presumably acid blood burn through Fifield's helmet but not anything further we can discern, in Alien Covenant we do not explicitly see acid but when a Neomorph bites Walter's hand off we do see on the stump's melted, much like the way when the Facehugger jumps out of the Egg and then enters Kane's helmet in the original film using acid but does not appear to harm him- it is not necessarily blood but something else stored in the body released tactically.

[judge death]

So its the much higher dosage of the pathogen that instead of mutating them outright killed them instead, alright then I have a explanation why it didnt do this in prometheus, and have to ignore expanded lore. Could be like you say that it can in large enough dosage wipe out a ecosystem and render it barren. one of my fave theories is lv-426 got hit by it and hence all stone formations and looking like as a friend called it: covered in mud/clay. But thats a theory

In the aliens book argumented reality its stated the neomorphs dont have acid for blood, and we see when the religious captain kills one of them its not leaking acid but blood, same when they kills the one that bited Walters hand as it didnt made anything to melt or make smoke from acid, but its possible it could release a substance that is similair to xeno acid as you say his arm injury looked melted, but could be due to the neomorphs teeth and mouth design, hard to tell. :/
Well thanks for these explanations and info, made it make more sense now.

[Still Collating...]

We know the Pods with the Motes within them get created by the Pathogen coming into contact with pollen, forming together in areas with sufficient moisture like fungus usually does normally, but that's an example of one I thought obvious personally.

Sources? Has that been confirmed anywhere? Even though I do consider that explanation the most plausible, you probably mean fungal spores, right? Since pollen is only plant based and we know the pathogen doesn't react much, if at all with plants.

I am certain I discussed it being depicted in storyboards with Necronomicon on this forum a year ago at most.
But I also just looked through David's Drawings and within it says he Pod's sensitive to heat, it is also explicitly stated in Alien The RPG that fire's the solution to eliminating them and that they come from incorporating pollen and other microbial elements together during creation.

This actually makes a lot of sense in terms of them being fungal in nature and the commonalities in the places of their formation:

Pollen grains absorb moisture from the air and swell. Especially after heavy rain, such as during or right after thunderstorms, swelling may cause the grains to break up and release pollen allergens outside the pollen grains.

Euniceral strains are found on countless varieties of substrate and requires acid fermentation in harsh conditions. to produce acid for its offspring. Once the spore has reached fertility, toxins are injected into the host's bloodstream or lymphatic system. If spore bacteria enters the host's circulatory system Clostridio tetani will cause a violent reaction. Clostridio is a cone shaped sanerobic species of pathogena of genus Elostridium. During infancy the organism will not survive the presence of Eunicium, it is sensitive to heat and exhibits minor mobility.

Just the pollen part bothered me because it's plant related which shouldn't be affected by the pathogen if we're going by Covenant. Too bad if the RPG used pollen as a reference cause that confuses things. Fungal is my favorite theory cause they are a completely different category than plants or animals.
Though honestly it's kinda strange they made the pathogen not kill off and mutate plants.

The dosage: the amount of Pathogen the Engineers got exposed to 2000 years ago on LV-223, and again in 2094 during deployment on the Engineer world designated as "Planet 4" by the USCSS Covenant, acted as an overdose killing the majority of them instantly and we see this in the petrified bodies full of openings on each planet. 

In the one instance we have a planet with no ecosystem to examine the effects of it on, and in the other we have a planet with an ecosystem to examine the effects of it on, if the first once used to have an ecosystem then 2000 years effectively wiped it out.

As for the blood, I am not certain, but it appears to me that their blood and salvia's simply acidic but not necessarily to the degree of the titular Alien.

In Prometheus we do see a clear liquid presumably acid blood burn through Fifield's helmet but not anything further we can discern, in Alien Covenant we do not explicitly see acid but when a Neomorph bites Walter's hand off we do see on the stump's melted, much like the way when the Facehugger jumps out of the Egg and then enters Kane's helmet in the original film using acid but does not appear to harm him- it is not necessarily blood but something else stored in the body released tactically.

The dosage idea is very logical and should be used in future, but Prometheus didn't really follow that logic. Dosage means nothing unless we compare it to the size of the creatures. In Covenant the Engineers did get a good dose, and in Prometheus we did see what happens when smaller doses are applied. But Fifield got quite a nice dose by falling into the pathogen. Still it's possible to argue that it wasn't that great of a dose compared to David's bombing. The big issue with me is that the worms (future Hammerpedes) were swimming in the pathogen. For those little guys, that was a huge dose and they didn't die, multiple worms mutated.

Nothing is obvious or clear with the pathogen, nobody really tried to give it defined rules of function.

[BlueMarsalis79]

They became hybrid forms designed to kill other life though, the worms (or Hammerpedes), and Charlie Holloway and Sean Fifield (or Abominations), it is fairly nonsensical for the Pathogen to kill it's own creations, immediately anyway, so it makes sense that once infected then becoming transformed they become immune.

It's intelligent after all as confirmed by David the Pathogen's an artificial intelligence itself.

Also consider the factor that within the LV-223 temple we only see the Ampules start to sweat the Pathogen out when the atmosphere's changed in the room reacting to the heat and light and presumably also living things, we know this to be the case because when David later walks through the cargo hold the ones located in it remain completely inert covered in a mist, when deployed from the Juggernaut they shake intensely exposed to considerably much more heat, and light, and wind and bodies than before.

To use an analogy it's much like a soda can with the Pathogen in the Ampules, only in this case instead of dropping a mint in the soda, it is being exposed to the right conditions that causes "the activation" that wipes clean a planet of all life that can be classified as fauna.

[judge death]

Well we dont see the worms getting infected by the pathogen so its likely only parts of it touched them, and once they were mutated they were able to move and swim around in the black goo/pathogen without any danger for them.

Okay I have only the DVD of covenant so havent seen those deleted scenes but myself prefer the black goo to be just a dangerous substance and not an AI that can be reprogrammed. But I guess it was told as such in the scenes so I guess its what it is although its not shown as such in the normal movie but that is an question of opinion I think.

[BlueMarsalis79]

https://vimeo.com/405246423

We do not know that it is programmable, just that it is a form of primordial artificial intelligence, so it can make decisions to a degree.

[Still Collating...]

They became hybrid forms designed to kill other life though, the worms (or Hammerpedes), and Charlie Holloway and Sean Fifield (or Abominations), it is fairly nonsensical for the Pathogen to kill it's own creations, immediately anyway, so it makes sense that once infected then becoming transformed they become immune.

It's intelligent after all as confirmed by David the Pathogen's an artificial intelligence itself.

Also consider the factor that within the LV-223 temple we only see the Ampules start to sweat the Pathogen out when the atmosphere's changed in the room reacting to the heat and light and presumably also living things, we know this to be the case because when David later walks through the cargo hold the ones located in it remain completely inert covered in a mist, when deployed from the Juggernaut they shake intensely exposed to considerably much more heat, and light, and wind and bodies than before.

To use an analogy it's much like a soda can with the Pathogen in the Ampules, only in this case instead of dropping a mint in the soda, it is being exposed to the right conditions that causes "the activation" that wipes clean a planet of all life that can be classified as fauna.

I didn't mean when the Hammerpedes were swimming in the stuff before they attacked Fifield, I meant the worms swimming in the pathogen before they became grotesque creatures. Which does happen.

Well we dont see the worms getting infected by the pathogen so its likely only parts of it touched them, and once they were mutated they were able to move and swim around in the black goo/pathogen without any danger for them.

Okay I have only the DVD of covenant so havent seen those deleted scenes but myself prefer the black goo to be just a dangerous substance and not an AI that can be reprogrammed. But I guess it was told as such in the scenes so I guess its what it is although its not shown as such in the normal movie but that is an question of opinion I think.

We do see it. It happens at 42:01 to 42:05, right after David is leaving with the others to try and outrun the incoming storm. The little guys are getting quite a big dose of the pathogen for their size, they're swimming in the stuff. The dose theory doesn't work, it's not consistent with the prequels.

And TQ, even if the pathogen is kinda an AI, run on ancient algorithms, that doesn't mean it can make decisions at all. Nowhere is that supported. Even by David it's described as chaotic and with limitless possibilities (aka the writers can do whatever they want with it). Not enough hard rules have been given to the pathogen. White is trying and we'll see what Gaska does in full with it, but the films certainly don't present anything too logical.

The best explanation for the differences in Covenant's and Prometheus' portrayal of the pathogen is that they were used differently. That could have different effects, but again it really should have been explained a bit better.
The way you're describing it, it sounds like the Ampules are a two part thing that when shaked and mixed it's much more lethal and airborne, while in Prometheus when that's not done, you get a liquid (one part) that makes a lot more mutants?
Plausible, but it does annoy me that I'm certain they weren't thinking of that and is in no real way supported with any comment from the creative team involved and that it certainly won't be considered in the future.

[BlueMarsalis79]

I am aware they do and it's the one part of the Pathogen that remains up for debate to me, why in instances does it kill, and yet in other instances it creates hybrids? Truthfully I don't know for sure, but in David's lab we can see various deformities present in the (not all) affected beings, and he does state (within Advent) that simply certain specimens (generally more humanoid ones) progressed and others did not survive the process and I think that's fair enough.

We do see it make decisions though in the form of the Pods and Motes it chooses the directions it goes in, when going to enter an orifice, whilst it never deviates from it's aims according to David it is also technically making decisions.

As for whether the people writing it considered whether it's functions alternate depending upon whether exposed to the atmosphere at a high altitude during deployment or not, perhaps or perhaps not, but I believe so considering the return to the original idea for the Pathogen as featured in Jon Spaihts' script Alien Engineers.

[Still Collating...]

It can be explained with a simple statistic maybe, there's a x% chance that the pathogen will kill in some specific circumstances or whatever.

And do you really think it's the pathogen that's able to control it's movements? The pods, motes are other infected microorganisms have their own movements and instinctual intelligence, just like it's not the pathogen that's making decisions in the Neomorph or Fifield, but the creatures themselves. At least, that's how I see it. 

[BlueMarsalis79]

David does say so, true to his word that it either kills outright or creates a hybrid form, and I do believe the Pathogen's responsible for their decisions but whether I'm right or not does not ultimately make any difference to interpreting the way it operates.

[Immortan Jonesy]

In Covenant, motes really seem to have a sense of locomotion, like an insect-like creature of some sort.



In Prometheus, they only appear to be worms shaped like the ibola virus in the dark liquid.



I imagine that as an AI, the pathogen created a creature by infecting the fungi on Planet 4, giving rise to the eggsacks. When David bombards the Engineers, they look like a plague of locusts though, with a sense of locomotion like the motes. 

Spoiler

[close]

I don't know, maybe the detonation of the urns in the air makes a difference in the pathogen itself, leaving it ready to do its thing. Which didn't happen on Prometheus, where it was either "raw" or not active enough to do its thing.