Edit: when reading this remember that D15 is Science Division within WY.
In the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical manual (1997) it states that the Shinyo Maru was sent as an extraction team to LV 426 to investigate the disappearance of the Sulaco (and Carter Burke) and rescue survivors.
But the Shinyo Maru found D15 Science Division already there (WY faster-than-light ship: Resolute),...a blue-on-blue was narrowly avoided through share negotiations by Trudeau.
This is where the plot of Sega Aliens: Colonial Marines and the Stasis Interrupted DLC videogame comes from.
From the ACMTM:
COMFILE /28//sic.shinyom/1119476/savA
SAFARI FLASH.
TO: MANDEC RDIV
SUBJ: REDDOG ONE. EXTRACTION TEAM ON STATION EFFECTIVE SEP 132130. OBJECTIVE 2,000 METERS NE. WILL EXPEDITE. CAMLAC 2 OUTFIRE REPORTS FRIENDS PRESENT IN FORCE. REPEAT, IN FORCE. REQUEST WEAPONS FREE. STANDBY.
PLAYBACK FF//3945698/w-yut.Gwy/Res/C39 Sep 14 23:59:00 2179
"The Shinyo Maru confirms, sir. Science Division are on-site at the derelict. Tanaka wants orders. Should he arrange an accident?"
"Not yet. Tell him to keep his powder dry. First I need to negotiate with Trudeau on a secure line. If he's smart, he won't try and muscle us out of the bonus share."
COMFILE /28//sic.shinyom/234288/savH
FLASH.
TO: MANDEC RDIV
SUBJ: REDDOG ONE. ALL ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY HERE. HAVE RECOVERED TWO LOST BABIES. SHARE PROSPECTS EXCELLENT. MSG ENDS.
END PLAYBACK
The A:CM game neatly follows on from the Technical Manual:
The crew of the Shinyo Maru rediscover the derelict and find D15 (Science Division) already there. This is the Weyland Yutani FTL Resolute as shown in A:CM.
A "blue on blue" is narrowly avoided by financial negotiations regarding the share value. They then recover two eggs for the Science Division. The Origin facility is established immediately, continuing Project Ilythia on site. The Shinyo Maru is already gone by the time the Sephora arrives, but the Resolute is still there.
So the Resolute (D15 Science Division) arrives first at LV426 after Carter Burke's botched mission. Then the Shinyo Maru (Weyland Yutani) arrives, but "keeps its powder dry".
The poor Sephora (sent by the Marine corps who don't know anything) arrives last.
The plot of A:CM is actually carefully thought out, it really gives off that 1986 Aliens corporate vibe as illustrated in the movie and the A:CM TM. The plot is actually surprisingly consistent and good.
EDIT: Science Division (D15) is actually the shadowy component in WY. Taken from the TM:
""Christ, yeah. Oh, the one thing that did check out was Ripley's claim about Ash. Someone did order a synthetic aboard the Nostromo as a replacement Science Officer shortly before it left Thetis. I don't know who it was made the order, but it would imply that Science Division was running the show—"
—As they are now. What goes around—"
"Problem is, we're still in the dark; without the data held by D15 (Science Division)-"
"Listen, CONRAD and Tokyo have given me a wide degree of latitude on this, but I'm under orders. All I can say is that Bioweapons and D15 have got the situation locked down tight. I can't tell you anything else."
"Rumiko, have you read this?"
"Yes, I had the testimony downloaded to my terminal." "Where in hell did they get this from?"
"I do not know. Science Division are saying they have a new data source. They are holding back until the bonus situation is cleared." (the datasource is= See my post below)
Yeah, A:CM's plot drawing from the last chapter of the Tech Manual was one of the things I liked the most.
Writing in video games is generally neither here nor there for me, and while I don't dispute it's always fun shooting Aliens, this was quite possibly the worst written video game I've ever played.
(Also, as an aside, CMTM was published in 1995)
Was "oorah to ashes" from the CMTM or was that a Mikey Neumann original?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 02:44:49 AM
Was "oorah to ashes" from the CMTM or was that a Mikey Neumann original?
That shit was a Mikey Neumann original.
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 10:23:01 PM
Writing in video games is generally neither here nor there for me, and while I don't dispute it's always fun shooting Aliens, this was quite possibly the worst written video game I've ever played.
(Also, as an aside, CMTM was published in 1995)
The nuts and bolts dialogue had issues, but I was okay with the overarching plot for the most part (and as mentioned, I liked that it drew from the ending of the CMTM),
Was it your ideal sequel to Aliens?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 08:29:57 PM
Was it your ideal sequel to Aliens?
Given that it's already got a sequel, then it's still open for one. At least one in spirit, but let's take it in an altogether unexpected direction.
After events of 'ALIEN 3', the crew of the Patna discover the location of the Sulaco. They go and investigate. A boarding party of 5 APE suited WY enter the ship and explore the empty vessel. They recover the ships closed and encrypted security recordings. On the return journey to their boarding craft to return to the Patna, they discover some eggs - 2 are open, 1 is sealed. One of the Mercs gets face hugged and the other 4 have to drag him back onto the boarding craft and return to the Patna.
Back on the Patna, the WY science personnel break the encrypted recordings and discover how the eggs got aboard the Sulaco, which they find out by watching recordings of what happened in the dropship bay with Ripley battling the Queen. They find out that 3 proto huggers had been drop from between its legs and they hastily speed into safer places amongst the cargo and other equipment. Viewing other recordings shows them growing into eggs, with 2 of them opening and escaping aboard the EEV with the survivors.
Meanwhile, the Alien inside the previously face hugged merc emerges. He dies as expected and the Alien is now loose aboard the Patna. The armed crew go searching for the creature not knowing that it has since grown by the time they find it. Having abducted several WY personnel and egg morphed them, there's now more of them. The Aliens slowly begin to outnumber the pulse rifle wielding WY personnel. Even fully armed, they fall to the growing numbers - in desperation, some fire fights with the Aliens results in loss of life as acid blood creates hull breaches.
APE suits, pulse rifles and Aliens; all fighting in cramped locations aboard the Patna - a nice fresh take that retains all the established concepts and adds a few fresh ones. Eventually, the Aliens take over the ship and Weyland (not played by Henriksen) is finally confronted by them. He is abducted and cocooned, the ship is now a hived up hulk, lost in space.
THE END.
Finally, we get a voice over just before the credits roll, a quote from 'ALIENS': "All this... This bullshit that you think is so important, well, you can kiss all that goodbye!"
...and so, Ripley 'gets the end she deserves' - by having the Aliens wreak vengeance upon WY. lol.
Of course, this idea retcons 'ALIENS: Colonial Marines', but I don't think most people will mind.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 18, 2016, 10:06:40 PM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 18, 2016, 08:29:57 PM
Was it your ideal sequel to Aliens?
Given that it's already got a sequel, then it's still open for one. At least one in spirit, but let's take it in an altogether unexpected direction.
After events of 'ALIEN 3', the crew of the Patna discover the location of the Sulaco. They go and investigate. A boarding party of 5 APE suited WY enter the ship and explore the empty vessel. They recover the ships closed and encrypted security recordings. On the return journey to their boarding craft to return to the Sulaco, they discover a few eggs - 2 are open, one is sealed. One of the Mercs gets face hugged and the other 4 have to drag him back onto the boarding craft and return to the Patna.
Back on the Patna, the WY personnel are trying to break the encrypted recordings and discover how the eggs got aboard the Sulaco, which they find out by watching recordings of what happened in the dropship bay with Ripley battling the Queen. They find out that 3 proto huggers had been drop from between its legs and they hastily sped into safer places amongst the cargo. Other recordings show them growing into eggs and 2 of them opening.
Meanwhile, the Alien inside the previously face hugged merc dies as expected and an Alien is loose aboard the Patna. The armed crew go searching for the creature not knowing that it has since grown by the time they find it. Having abducted several WY personnel and egg morphed them, the Aliens slowly begin to outnumber the pulse rifle wielding WY personnel. Even fully armed, they fall to the growing numbers - in desperation, some fire fights with the Aliens results in loss of life as acid blood creates hull breaches.
APE suits, pulse rifles and Aliens; all fighting in cramped locations aboard the Patna - a nice fresh take that retains all the established concepts and adds a few fresh ones. Eventually, the Aliens take over the ship and Weyland (not played by Henriksen) is finally confronted by them. He is abducted and cocooned, the ship is now a hived up hulk, lost in space.
THE END.
-Windebieste.
I like this story. A lot more details can be added but nice setup for an Alien type of movie and does not ruin continuity. Can also put a good crew member or civilian or company person to stay alive and create a nice sequel or 2.
Am I the only one who never wants to see the head of Weyland-Yutani, much less Weyland himself?
I thought Welles and Fox from the Gibson script were good follow-ups to Burke. I would have preferred them to Bishop's creator showing up just to show Ripley a friendly face.
How about: Morse and his newly acquired female android companion (that looks suspiciously like Charlize Theron) escape from the infested Patna on the boarding craft back to the Sulaco. lol.
-Windebieste.
Does Morse's vow of celibacy also include androids?
Well, that's the big question, isn't it?
Personally, I think Morse would be a great anti-hero - and easy to portray. Any male British actor of the right age prepared to shave his head and say 'Aw, F*ck!' could just about play the role. We really need to see a change up from what's becoming the trope of 'Ripley saves the day'. I think anti-hero is the way to go.
It could be like, well, I guess... Snake Plisskin in Space. lol.
-Windebieste
The game with the TemplarGFX mod graphics is actually a completely different game to the stock version. Most reviews on youtube are pretty unanimous that it looks and plays as a great game and feels a true sequel to the '86 movie. It had some memorable quotes too: e.g. Hicks' (Michael Biehn) "Watch the blood!" during firefights.
Edit: I've been thinking about this for weeks now, and I think I solved how the entire Aliens, Alien 3, CMTM logs, and the game tie together.
Bear with me, and remember (the greedy) Burke acted alone in Aliens, to not split his shares of success with anyone at Science Division (Bioweapons projects). That's been accepted for a while now.
I realised that (Patna) Bishop at the end of Alien 3 was the human Michael Bishop after all and not an android. Not only that, but the Michael Bishop executive in WY (see end of CMTM) who sends the Shinyo Maru is an android himself, an impostor/spy controlled by the real (Patna) Michael Bishop (working at D15 science division).
It's how science division is "always one step ahead" of WY as described in the CMTM. They have a man on the inside.
From CMTM (discussing the Bishop 341-B synthetic onboard Sulacos' remains):
"PLAYBACK DD/ cont// ref 17:10:28
"This is very strange, Leigh."
"Hmm? What have you come up with?"
"Look at the android data we captured here. All we received, more or less, were the android logs - all it saw or heard or downloaded; but this comes with a lot of contextual and semantic baggage - code from the operating system. It looks really odd - I've tried running it through ERAP, but my computers just can't make head nor tail of it."
" A custom mod?"
"More than that.This was one very special android. Just look at these responses — this thing was a lot smarter than your usual synthetic; it was making up some of its own emotional responses to events."
"Well, it's a company-built machine. I would have been surprised if it didn't have something buried deep in the system."
"Yeah, but this is more than that — there are these weird reactions to Ripley-"
I think I finally figured out why they added that section to the Technical Manual. It never made sense to me before.
If I'm right, it does now.
Also from the CMTM:
"Rumiko, have you read this?"
"Yes, I had the testimony downloaded to my terminal." "Where in hell did they get this from?"
"I do not know. Science Division are saying they have a new data source. They are holding back until the bonus situation is cleared."
The datasource is Sulaco's 341-B Bishop.
Bishop 341-B aboard Sulaco was feeding data all throughout the Sulaco mission to the real Michael Bishop working for Science Division (D15) onboard the Patna. The "strange reactions" mentioned in the CMTM (above) were because 341-B's "behavioral inhibitors" were conflicting with the "custom chip". The strange, own emotional responses towards Ripley were because it knew the truth. It knew the ultimate aim of Science Division and was actively taking part in the deception. Hence the above paragraphs in the CMTM.
As soon as the potential of LV426 becomes evident through Burke's transmission and 341-B's (nefarious) reporting, Science Division dispatches two ships to LV426 (Stasis Interrupted spoiler):
1. The bioweapons research vessel Legato.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Legato
Which arrives at the (post nuclear blast but undamaged) derelict site, collects eggs, but finds no queen and is sent to intercept the Sulaco because it knows (through 341-B) the only queen in existence now is onboard the Sulaco (inside Ripley.) It intercepts and docks with the Sulaco, towing it back to Origin Facility. All while having experimented with the eggs it collected on LV426 on colonist hostages, throughout its intercept journey.
(Stasis interrupted spoiler) But mayhem breaks loose with both tethered ships becoming infected, the Legato being destroyed by a colonist (Elisabeth), Hicks being freed and escaping with Stone, Ripley (infected by a queen) jettisoning in the EEV to F161. The Sulaco continuing on its new programmed route back to LV426 (to be boarded by the surprised Sephora weeks later, who has no idea what happened onboard her).
With the loss of the Legato, the U.S.S. Sulaco (now considered "lost") became the makeshift (but primary) research vessel for Science Division at Origin Facility. A fitting end to the "unluckiest ship in the fleet" as the CMTM and novels call her.
2. The Science Division command ship Resolute.
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Resolute
To oversee operations at LV426, loading of eggs for experimentation on the Legato and starting Project Ilithyia at the derelict (named after the Ilium range on LV426.) Coincidentally the choice of that word is interesting, it is a variant of the Latin Ilia (one side of the pelvic bone, groin). The Ilium mountain range on LV426 prophetically symbolises not only the pelvic shape of the derelict spacecraft (and phallic shape of the Xenomorph cranium), but Ilium also means birthing in Latin in addition to meaning from Ilion (from Troy / Trojan, where the Greek soldiers "birthed" from the belly of the Trojan horse inside the city of Troy). Also Ilithyia is the Greek goddess of childbirth.
The Resolute is headed by a synthetic Bishop (who, as everyone knows by now, through carelessness on Gearbox' part is incorrectly referred to as "Weyland" throughout the game. Then again, his full name in the canon may be named after Michael Weyland Bishop, either a relative of THE Weyland or a coincidental middle-name likeness). That would explain why in this franchise; androids who admit to being androids call themselves Bishop, while those feigning to be the human Weyland, refer to themselves as such. Gearbox may have been a step ahead of all of us.
By the time (the real) Michael Bishop (Science Division) onboard Patna arrives, he travels straight to Fiorina 161 and not to LV426. Bishop knows (through 341-B) that there is no more queen on Acheron, the only remaining queen is inside Ripley, who has been jettisoned to Fiorina 161. The Patna travels straight there.
He himself doesn't care about eggs, he is after the grand prize, the queen herself (inside Ripley).
As we know, Ripley dies, along with the queen. (The real) Bishop is hit over the head and bleeds like a normal person, and screams "I'm not an android you moron!!". (Stasis Interrupted spoiler) Hicks is taken prisoner and tortured (by the synthetic Bishop captain of the Resolute) to reveal the code to his After-Action Report and distress signal (both incriminating), to prevent further investigations by a rescue party at LV426 and jeopardize Project Ilithya.
The real Bishop (aboard the Patna) is long gone by this point, unknown where to. Project Ilythia (Resolute) eventually manages to create a new queen on LV426 (see: second Acheron queen)
http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Acheron_Queen
By this time the Science Division spy inside WY (synthetic Michael Bishop) has (as a formality and long overdue) dispatched the Shinyo Maru to LV426 which arrives weeks later on Sept 14th 2179 and finds the Resolute (Science division) there already: (from CMTM)
COMFILE /28//sic.shinyom/1119476/savA
SAFARI FLASH.
TO: MANDEC RDIV
SUBJ: REDDOG ONE. EXTRACTION TEAM ON STATION EFFECTIVE SEP 132130. OBJECTIVE 2,000 METERS NE. WILL EXPEDITE. CAMLAC 2 OUTFIRE REPORTS FRIENDS PRESENT IN FORCE. REPEAT, IN FORCE. REQUEST WEAPONS FREE. STANDBY.
PLAYBACK FF//3945698/w-yut.Gwy/Res/C39 Sep 14 23:59:00 2179
"The Shinyo Maru confirms, sir. Science Division are on-site at the derelict. Tanaka wants orders. Should he arrange an accident?"
"Not yet. Tell him to keep his powder dry. First I need to negotiate with Trudeau on a secure line. If he's smart, he won't try and muscle us out of the bonus share."
COMFILE /28//sic.shinyom/234288/savH
FLASH.
TO: MANDEC RDIV
SUBJ: REDDOG ONE. ALL ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY HERE. HAVE RECOVERED TWO LOST BABIES. SHARE PROSPECTS EXCELLENT. MSG ENDS.
So a blue-on-blue friendly fire over shares is avoided but it is all a theatre. (Science Division D15 / Patna) Michael Bishop (the android creator) is playing everyone for a fool, including his own Science Division boss (Trudeau) in "agreeing" to the financial negotiations with his own puppet (synthetic) Michael Bishop the WY employee, who everyone thinks is human.
I guess when you are the original human, after whose likeness countless androids have been modelled, you really do have immense power if you are cunning.
In fact, the Sulaco Bishop synthetic, 341-B, ITSELF smuggled the alien facehugger onboard the Sulaco into the hypersleep chambers.
- It's WHY it was "late" to pick up Ripley and Newt from the processor, NOT because it had to "circle around because the platform was getting unstable".
- It's WHY the CMTM mentioned it had a unique custom chip installed by an unknown party and strange, conflicted reactions towards Ripley.
- It's WHY it had no problem nuking the atmospheric processor.
- It's WHY it lied to Ripley on Fiorina and made no mention of the Legato docking, Hicks, Stone, etc.
- It's WHY the Patna (real Bishop) travels straight to F161 in the canon.
- It's WHY Andrews' message gets such a quick reply from the Patna regarding Ripley, they knew and were enroute.
It knew all along that Science Division's plan was safe.
The CMTM and plot of the game is genius how it ties everything together.
PS: and if the ENTIRE franchise (Prometheus prequels, Alien, Alien: Isolation, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, CMTM, Aliens: Colonial Marines, WYR) is CANON as Fox have repeatedly said (much to everyones confusion), there you have it:
Hicks alive (Video game)
Ripley alive (Resurrection)
That explains Blomkamps vision, and explains those weird Alien type appendages, masks, etc. on Ripley's face in his concepts. All it needs is a way to transport Hicks into the future from 2179.
A possible line from Blomkamps movie:
Hicks to Ripley, Ripley to Hicks
"I watched you die."
The best bit of genius for mine was how it made the whole escape from Hadley completely redundant by leaving the colony almost entirely intact after a 40 megaton nuclear blast.
Quote- It's WHY it was "late" to pick up Ripley and Newt from the processor, not because it had to "circle around because the platform was getting unstable".
Why did it jeopardise the specimen by going to pick up Ripley and Newt instead of flying away?
Also how did the suddenly evil Bishop send "live" data when there was no communication uplink after the destruction of the APC?
As it happens I was having a play of Stasis Interrupted yesterday and only just noticed - the fire that caused the evacuation was almost completely absent.
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 02:02:36 AM
The best bit of genius for mine was how it made the whole escape from Hadley completely redundant by leaving the colony almost entirely intact after a 40 megaton nuclear blast.
Wasn't that
also a Mikey Neumann original?
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 02:02:36 AM
The best bit of genius for mine was how it made the whole escape from Hadley completely redundant by leaving the colony almost entirely intact after a 40 megaton nuclear blast.
Quote- It's WHY it was "late" to pick up Ripley and Newt from the processor, not because it had to "circle around because the platform was getting unstable".
Why did it jeopardise the specimen by going to pick up Ripley and Newt instead of flying away?
Also how did the suddenly evil Bishop send "live" data when there was no communication uplink after the destruction of the APC?
As it happens I was having a play of Stasis Interrupted yesterday and only just noticed - the fire that caused the evacuation was almost completely absent.
Those are what they are I'm afraid. It has many errors like that. The names on the lockers have incorrect first letters on some marines, etc. There's many goofs.
Great question on why it picked them up at all. It was an easy pickup and guaranteed specimens to impregnate immediately. The egg/facehugger might have been injured or in an unknown state. Best to impregnate immediately as the embryo is what counts, not the egg/facehugger if you ask me.
I see you're playing Stasis Interrupted just now. I finished it a few weeks ago and it has taken me this long to let all 4 sources "simmer" in my head. (A2, A3, CMTM, Game) and come up with my conclusion.
Notably the CMTM. I read that months ago and all those "
little juicy facts" I quoted were bugging me. Obviously they're added for a reason but I just couldn't figure it out, so cryptically written all of it. I believe I now have. Also noone (that I have found) has bothered looking into those sentences in the TM in depth all these years. Admittedly it is cryptic, but once you figure it out it all slots into place (A2, A3 and CMTM) The game script follows on from that and you can see that whoever wrote it had "cracked" the CMTM. There are absolutely some holes but I feel my summary is consistent within itself overall.
Feel free to read it again, I've clarified some parts through edits just now.
Also, if you'd like, I can send you an edited pecangame.ini to replace your own in my documents, games (after backing yours up somewhere safe, to put it back if you like.)
It's one single (tiny) file that improves the look of the game considerably. My version has been collected from bits of advice on the net over the years and completely changes the lighting, shadows, aliasing, time bodies stay where theyfall, etc. It changes the game quite a bit. (I haven't tried the templargfx mod yet, (if you have that installed my .ini would be pointless for you.) Crap, that's all if you're on PC I forgot to realise.
QuoteWasn't that also a Mikey Neumann original?
I believe Neumann is the only listed writer, but those BSG guys often get mentioned. Dunno how much of their story survived intact.
QuoteGreat question on why it picked them up at all. It was an easy pickup and guaranteed specimens to impregnate immediately. The egg/facehugger might have been injured or in an unknown state. Best to impregnate immediately as the embryo is what counts, not the egg/facehugger if you ask me.
Almost crashing into the platform doesn't sound like an easy pickup, with seconds before the place exploded. Additionally, Hicks was in no shape to fight off a hugger and therefore a prime host.
QuotePS: and if the ENTIRE franchise (Prometheus prequels, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection, CMTM, Video Game, WYR) is CANON as Fox have repeatedly said (much to everyones confusion), there you have it
The only canon video game is Isolation. None of the information or events in A:CM are referenced in WYR. Until Blomkamp's film, Hicks is still dead.
Not that I doubt your assertion that CMTM and A:CM can fit together. For me, the point is moot.
QuoteAlso, if you'd like, I can send you an edited pecangame.ini to replace your own in my documents, games (after backing yours up somewhere safe, to put it back if you like.)
It's one single (tiny) file that improves the look of the game considerably. My version has been collected from bits of advice on the net over the years and completely changes the lighting, shadows, aliasing, time bodies stay where theyfall, etc. It changes the game quite a bit. (I haven't tried the templargfx mod yet, (if you have that installed my .ini would be pointless for you.) Crap, that's all if you're on PC I forgot to realise.
Thanks for the offer but I'll pass. I rarely play A:CM, and even then it's just to mindlessly shoot Aliens and laugh at the appalling dialogue. Like when Stone kills a WY commando and yells 'That's how marines do it!', before telling Hicks he doesn't want to talk about his past as a marines.
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 02:48:48 AM
Thanks for the offer but I'll pass. I rarely play A:CM, and even then it's just to mindlessly shoot Aliens and laugh at the appalling dialogue. Like when Stone kills a WY commando and yells 'That's how marines do it!', before telling Hicks he doesn't want to talk about his past as a marines.
You're very welcome. Lol yeah, it's full of things like that. Like the first time Bella comes on the radio she says something like "THIS IS BELLA", and when she's done speaking O'Neil goes "THAT SOUNDED LIKE BELLA".
It's nuts. But I love it regardless, I'm (have always been) an Aliens 1986 nut. That whole James Cameron look, the over the top weapons, the James Horner music, that company scheming for a share, etc. I've always wanted to delve into THAT world, esp. after reading the CMTM and DH Book one and Book two, I wanted to know more about those gritty places.
I loved Alien: Isolation too, but quite frankly it makes me shit my pants. Lets put it this way: I stopped playing that after I ran out of underwear. But the low fi tech design was amazing in how it captured that '79 version of 2130's.
And to be honest it's more about you vs the alien and I'm much more interested in the greater "world" of that universe.
The A:CM game is the only visual media today that is a sequel to that Aliens world that I wanted to explore and its nowhere near as bad once you make sense of it all and patch the graphics. And it brings back the most loved male character of the franchise what more could you want? :). (Lets admit it) EVERY, SINGLE fan was shocked and disappointed when they found out he was simply dead in the next movie in 1992. This fixes that in a really not all that bad way once you take the CMTM into account. It's an intriguing story due to the complexity of it all. And you got to see Syd Mead designed locations of the Sulaco you never got to see in the movie.
Yes it was really bad game on release, (much better now, esp with TemplarGFX) but it wasn't THAT bad. There were plenty of people on the hate bandwagon simply shouting what the guy next to them was shouting too.
But, yeah, don't get me started on what it could have been.
Original concept art:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zf3d.com%2Fbjqasdasd3f5gt454%2Fewebeditor%2Fshangchuan%2F2015%2F11%2F30%2Furl_image%2F20151130111309601.jpg&hash=2589358c17d0878cae4cb216d8f7e850ae00db53)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/conceptart/concept04.jpg)
How does Turk fit into this scenario?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 19, 2016, 03:19:52 AM
How does Turk fit into this scenario?
Stasis Interrupted Spoiler:
The Legato was supposed to simply dock with the Sulaco and collect the impregnated Ripley. That's what those PMC's came into the cryogenic compartment for in the beginning of Stasis Interrupted.
The specimens were never supposed to escape and cause contagion and havok on the Legato, causing colonists including Elisabeth, Stone and Turk to free themselves, and escape to the Sulaco where in that fight with the PMC's Turk ended up jettisoned in the cryotube programmed for Hicks.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zf3d.com%2Fbjqasdasd3f5gt454%2Fewebeditor%2Fshangchuan%2F2015%2F11%2F30%2Furl_image%2F20151130111309601.jpg&hash=2589358c17d0878cae4cb216d8f7e850ae00db53)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/conceptart/concept04.jpg)
The sad thing is Unreal Engine 3, upon which the game is built, can easily handle rendering environments like that. Especially when the player views it from street level with buildings occluding anything inside/behind them. Take into account LODing, massive LODing and other rendering tricks to optimise performance. Yep. Easy peasy. :-[
Could've been Great! Sadly, something went very wrong somewhere along the line.
-Windebieste.
QuoteEVERY, SINGLE fan was shocked and disappointed when they found out he was simply dead in the next movie in 1992.
Shocked yes; but many would say they weren't disappointed. Back then I would've preferred it followed the comic storyline, but quickly came to prefer Alien3 as it stands.
QuoteThis fixes that in a really not all that bad way once you take the CMTM into account. It's an intriguing story due to the complexity of it all.
I'm not really seeing any complexity. "Company wants to exploit the Alien and, predictably, louse it up really badly; the protagonists seek to survive the ensuing chaos and carnage."
That concept art sure looked mighty nice though.
Quote from: windebieste on Sep 19, 2016, 04:01:37 AM
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zf3d.com%2Fbjqasdasd3f5gt454%2Fewebeditor%2Fshangchuan%2F2015%2F11%2F30%2Furl_image%2F20151130111309601.jpg&hash=2589358c17d0878cae4cb216d8f7e850ae00db53)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/conceptart/concept04.jpg)
The sad thing is Unreal Engine 3, upon which the game is built, can easily handle rendering environments like that. Especially when the player views it from street level with buildings occluding anything inside/behind them. Take into account LODing, massive LODing and other rendering tricks to optimise performance. Yep. Easy peasy. :-[
Could've been Great! Sadly, something went very wrong somewhere along the line.
-Windebieste.
Really is an obvious example of passion/skill influencing the result I'm afraid. The people making the decisions just weren't skilled enough and / or passionate enough. Just compare it to the masterpiece that was Alien Isolation.
But there is hope for us who want to explore the (Aliens) world in videogame format again after Blomkamps film, which hopefully wont get cancelled.
I don't see the need to wait for a movie that isn't even in production to set any standards here.
Scott's new movie is now less than 12 months away from release.
A lot will be hinging on that release. Including influencing whatever form Blomkamp's movie takes. Mind you, I do find the notion of Ripley, Hicks and Newt returning to be appalling, inane and ridiculous.
Other than that, I'm all for supporting Blomkamp's effort.
-Windebieste.
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 04:10:31 AM
QuoteEVERY, SINGLE fan was shocked and disappointed when they found out he was simply dead in the next movie in 1992.
Shocked yes; but many would say they weren't disappointed. Back then I would've preferred it followed the comic storyline, but quickly came to prefer Alien3 as it stands.
I'm one of those rare people who love both Aliens and Alien 3 (the assembly cut ofcourse). The hellish desperation in A3 was perfect for Fincher. But I would MUCH rather have seen Hicks alive and gone to a non-isolated / busy environment as in the Gibson script. And a tiny bit like we thankfully got in the game.
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 04:10:31 AM
QuoteThis fixes that in a really not all that bad way once you take the CMTM into account. It's an intriguing story due to the complexity of it all.
I'm not really seeing any complexity. "Company wants to exploit the Alien and, predictably, louse it up really badly; the protagonists seek to survive the ensuing chaos and carnage."
That concept art sure looked mighty nice though.
Oh I think it's complex when you factor in the Legato, Sulaco, Sephora, Resolute, Derelict, HH and how the events on each intertwine over the course of time from Aliens to CMTM to Stasis Interrupted, to Alien 3, to Sephora, etc. It took me weeks to figure out what I summarised at the end of the previous page.
If someone asked me in 2011 to pen a script connecting Aliens to CMTM, to A3,
SOMEHOW bring Hicks back, introduce a new crew of Marines into the mix in a 13 hour adventure, include WY scheming, revisit HH. Combining all those conditions I couldn't have done it as congruent as this.
I bet you could have.
Thanks, I'll take it as a compliment :)
PS: Other A:CM goofs:
If Cruz was a Battalion Commander he would actually be a Lieutenant Colonel and not a Captain.
A Captain would be in command of just a (rifle) company of 100-200 men, consisting of three to six platoons of 15-30 men, each headed by an Lt.
With a platoon consisting of two squads of 8-12 men, each headed by a Sergeant, and each squad consisting of two to three fireteams of 3-4 men, each headed by a Corporal.
If USCM infantry battalions are anything like present day USMC infantry battalions, Cruz would have closer to 960-1500 Marines under his command and not a few hundred.
Also, the word "Actual" is being used incorrectly.
Unit commanders like Cruz are referred to by their unit's callsign and the number 6. Cruz would be Sephora-6 and Sulaco-6.
The only time the word "actual" would be used, is to clarify that Cruz is the person actually speaking, and not his radio operator relaying the message.
I didn't want to get into '257 ways A:CM sucked' - and won't now - but I wasn't aware of those ones. It just keeps on giving in ways you wish it didn't.
But on a similar note in terms of marine ranks; I was recently re-reading the Colonial Marines comic, and noted that for a platoon full of dregs and screw-ups, who either did some crappy work detail or went to the stockade - there were four PFC's and three Corporals. Did the USCM not demote people?
No idea. I never served. I just looked up Marines military units on wikipedia. :)
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 06:14:42 AM
I didn't want to get into '257 ways A:CM sucked' - and won't now - but I wasn't aware of those ones. It just keeps on giving in ways you wish it didn't.
Will you expound on that if I start a new thread?
No need to flog a long decomposed dead horse. (http://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=47052.0)
Quote from: SM on Feb 06, 2013, 10:48:03 PM
They see me hating. They ball licking.
Quite.
The context is evident in the thread.
Quote from: gold on Sep 19, 2016, 05:22:26 AM
Thanks, I'll take it as a compliment :)
PS: Other A:CM goofs:
If Cruz was a Battalion Commander he would actually be a Lieutenant Colonel and not a Captain.
A Captain would be in command of just a (rifle) company of 100-200 men, consisting of three to six platoons of 15-30 men, each headed by an Lt.
With a platoon consisting of two squads of 8-12 men, each headed by a Sergeant, and each squad consisting of two to three fireteams of 3-4 men, each headed by a Corporal.
If USCM infantry battalions are anything like present day USMC infantry battalions, Cruz would have closer to 960-1500 Marines under his command and not a few hundred.
Also, the word "Actual" is being used incorrectly.
Unit commanders like Cruz are referred to by their unit's callsign and the number 6. Cruz would be Sephora-6 and Sulaco-6.
The only time the word "actual" would be used, is to clarify that Cruz is the person actually speaking, and not his radio operator relaying the message.
I would like to point out that he is the captain of the ship, the actual mission commander was in aliens:infestation, and he was taken out of the fight before Winter is woken up for yhe events of ACM.
I thought A:CM contradicted Infestation. SM?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 19, 2016, 10:40:44 PM
I thought A:CM contradicted Infestation. SM?
It might have some contradictions, but it was intended to be a prequel to acm.
I wouldn't let contradictions get in the way of using material, fox is ok with canon being lose, and if we dod let contradictions get in the way of proclaiming what is or isn't in the series, we wouldn't get past alien or prometheus.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 19, 2016, 10:40:44 PM
I thought A:CM contradicted Infestation. SM?
It did.
Infestation was more fun for starters.
It was intended to be linked to A:CM, but somewhere along the line that fell apart.
What are the biggest contradictions between the two?
Sulaco had a gigantic hole blown in forward ventral hull at the end and floated off into space.
Amongst other continuity problems.
Can you make it fit?
Quote from: SM on Sep 19, 2016, 11:39:33 PM
Sulaco had a gigantic hole blown in forward ventral hull at the end and floated off into space.
Amongst other continuity problems.
I would like to point out that not enough of the lower part of the hull was shown in acm to see if the damage done to it in infestation was their or not.
Also in between those events, it spinning off and losing control, and Winter being unthawed, the ship would have corrected itself ether because of the wy forces aboard or the ships computer. Just because we know what happened aboard the ship doesn't mean Cruz and whatever is left of the forces aboard his ship do, they would try to reconnect with the ship from aliens and get there marines off of it.
Did you just seamlessly reconcile the two games?
QuoteCan you make it fit?
Somehow the Sulaco, ejecting cryotubes on August 8 (having docked with the Legato sometime before this) ends up 20 odd light years off course at Gamma Leporis 10 days later and was found adrift by the UPP. Sulaco is intercepted by the Sephora, who find it infested. They find the UPP has also setup a base on LV-426 so go there to blow it up. It's also infested with Aliens. They escape in an APC and crash into a now intact 2122-era Derelict.
They go back to the Sulaco, fight more Aliens, Sulaco arrives at Phobos, more Aliens in WY research station. Back to Sulaco again, ends with big hull breech after the boss battle and Sulaco spiralling off into space.
Then in A:CM the Sulaco is back at LV-426 again, intact.
Not much point in trying to make it fit. Unless one wants to make it more fun by factoring in CMTM, and the arcade games Aliens Extermination and Alien3 - The Gun. And Earth War comics.
QuoteI would like to point out that not enough of the lower part of the hull was shown in acm to see if the damage done to it in infestation was their or not.
You can see the part of the ship that was breeched in Infestation, during the opening titles of A:CM. It's where the main ship signage is (or was).
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Not much point in trying to make it fit. Unless one wants to make it more fun by factoring in CMTM, and the arcade games Aliens Extermination and Alien3 - The Gun. And Earth War comics.
Who would do such a thing?
It's also a question of shooting yourself in the foot. I mean, we come here and spend time posting and stuff. Give our energy to this franchise because we love it. To then completely hate something like A:CM because the floor grating in the hangar doesn't match up, or the passage is marked M4 instead of M3 like in the movie, is kind of working against yourself. It's killing your own enjoyment of something.
It is what it is, and its the only thing that is a sequel to Aliens in videogame format with the original actors (like how Ghostbusters: The Video Game) was in essence GB3 set in 1991 with the original actors. So I'm beyond criticizing it (its been 3 years since release) sure there's goofs but the story is pretty good and the backstory trough the audio logs gives nice insight. Say what you will but there was considerable fan service here to find in all the levels. And with the TemplarGFX graphics and AI patched it looks and plays amazing (very different to stock).
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqXlI1LI.jpg&hash=1c498ba81ccc19c84348d3dee7a20aa3878777a0)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fxphj0Jl.jpg&hash=9cf0a0db9bc3c21a70e2eb270472949a3f718345)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F7p4XHZh.jpg&hash=7d80284ee0600dd5d60377ed440e197698f6249f)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geforce.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles-editorial%2Fattachments%2Ftemplar-gfx-acm-overhaul-xeno-attack.jpg&hash=44ea77c5097f99a0e602db2ba49a6ab3492bdf58)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fedge.alluremedia.com.au%2Fm%2Fk%2F2016%2F04%2FACM_2016-03-25_22-21-37-3151.jpg&hash=4616e10519256550b86ae2109623fcb43fed226f)
QuoteIt's also a question of shooting yourself in the foot. I mean, we come here and spend time posting and stuff. Give our energy to this franchise because we love it. To then completely hate something like A:CM because the floor grating in the hangar doesn't match up, or the passage is marked M4 instead of M3 like in the movie, is kind of working against yourself. It's killing your own enjoyment of something.
Is anyone hating it "because the floor grating in the hangar doesn't match up, or the passage is marked M4 instead of M3 like in the movie"?
I used to.
I have much love for this thread. Hat's off, Gold - really nice work in trying to tie all the pieces together and doing a really good job. Sure, there are questions that SM et al have raised, but honestly, I really enjoyed this take.
As I've said in other threads, I'm not really a gamer and such really enjoyed A:CM (it had pulse rifle's that sounded like pulse rifles and you got to shoot xenos... what more can anyone ask - well, plenty I guess, if you play a lot of games).
Like all these things, it suffers from bringing Hicks back an expedient way. I can see why they did it, but I do think that leaving him out and going with a "pure" sequel that didn't try to resurrect him might have made a better story?
(I should add I've not reversed my view There's been millions of words devoted to NBs reshuffle/boot/con/sequel thing and I'm firmly in the cryo-dream camp as I think that's the only logical way to bring him and the others back - but that a side issue to this).
I would have loved to have read a novelisation of A:CM honestly and find out what ended up on the cutting room floor (or mac recycle bin!) as I liked the characters (sorry, but I did).
I don't know Gold - you've put a load of effort into this - would you write it in full or even put a pitch out to Dark Horse or Titan (it is Titan that do the novels, isn't it?) Your ideas are great and astoundingly coherent - which in the Alien'verse is a hard thing to do. I'd love to see it go further - as long a shot as that is.
I mean - all they can say is "no" right? Given the effort you've gone to just on this forum, it'd be shame not to at least give it a whirl.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
QuoteCan you make it fit?
Somehow the Sulaco, ejecting cryotubes on August 8 (having docked with the Legato sometime before this) ends up 20 odd light years off course at Gamma Leporis 10 days later and was found adrift by the UPP.
This could be caused by a computer core malfunction, or some sort of damage caused when the aliens boarding the ship.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Quote
Sulaco is intercepted by the Sephora, who find it infested. They find the UPP has also setup a base on LV-426 so go there to blow it up. It's also infested with Aliens.
This doesn't conflict with acm.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Quote
They escape in an APC and crash into a now intact 2122-era Derelict.fit?
We see in acm, based on dialog about the ship, the appearance of the ship and occupants , and in pvp maps, that their at least two pilot craft on LV-426.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Quote
They go back to the Sulaco, fight more Aliens, Sulaco arrives at Phobos, more Aliens in WY research station. Back to Sulaco again, ends with big hull breech after the boss battle and Sulaco spiralling off into space.
It appears this craft has preset routs that it travels, it more than likely was already at these bases at one time. Hence how iens ended up at those bases.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Quote
Then in A:CM the Sulaco is back at LV-426 again, intact.
Its ai knew to take it back to home base after the major incident aboard the ship, this is based on fathers actions with the ship on aliens res. It also isnt fully shown enough to determine if its hull is intact or not.
I would like to point out that not enough of the lower part of the hull was shown in acm to see if its intact of not.
QuoteWe see in acm, based on dialog about the ship
Which dialogue?
QuoteIts ai knew to take it back to home base after the major incident aboard the ship, this is based on fathers actions with the ship on aliens res.
Why would LV-426 be homebase? Shouldn't Gateway be homebase?
QuoteIt also isnt fully shown enough to determine if its hull is intact or not.
Yes it is. The area of the forward ventral hull where the Sulaco name plate is blown out in Aliens Infestation. During the opening titles we see the same area completely intact. You can see it again when crossing over from Sephora to Sulaco.
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 10:30:25 PM
QuoteIts ai knew to take it back to home base after the major incident aboard the ship, this is based on fathers actions with the ship on aliens res.
Why would LV-426 be homebase? Shouldn't Gateway be homebase?
While I agree that LV-426 makes no sense as a homebase, am I the only one who thinks it's an extraordinarily bad idea to have a ship infested with deadly alien organisms go anywhere
near Earth?
The CMTM tells us of three major command hubs for the USCM: Sol, Eridani and Herculis. I wonder why Sulaco wasn't attached to Eridani or Herculis instead of launching from Gateway.
They needed Ripley for the mission and she was at Gateway.
(Or more simply, because Cameron hadn't made them up.)
The nearer to civilised space, of course there's a greater risk of infestation, but also a better chance of containment.
I always figured they wanted her to go, but the marines were going to investigate the loss of contact with or without her help. If there was a closer base, It amazes me that they'd allow civilian colonists to wait longer than necessary for a rescue just because Ripley and Burke wanted to tag along.
Guess they wanted Ripley's intel.
It was my understanding that she told the inquest everything she knew about the alien. I can't imagine what more they thought she could offer beyond that.
It's kinda moot though.
Ripley had to be in the story and we're talking about a third party publication after the event detailing other USCM bases in space.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 22, 2016, 06:48:46 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 10:30:25 PM
QuoteIts ai knew to take it back to home base after the major incident aboard the ship, this is based on fathers actions with the ship on aliens res.
Why would LV-426 be homebase? Shouldn't Gateway be homebase?
While I agree that LV-426 makes no sense as a homebase, am I the only one who thinks it's an extraordinarily bad idea to have a ship infested with deadly alien organisms go anywhere near Earth?
The CMTM tells us of three major command hubs for the USCM: Sol, Eridani and Herculis. I wonder why Sulaco wasn't attached to Eridani or Herculis instead of launching from Gateway.
Wasn't it proved that Burke acted alone (with Bishop of the Patna) and that the Sulaco was set to go to LV426 by the Legato? I suppose if you don't consider the games canon then we'd need another reason why the Sulaco came back to LV426. But what other media does the Sulaco return to LV426 after the fire apart from in the videogames?
If you don't consider the games canon, then you don't need a reason for the Sulaco to return to LV-426 because it didn't return to LV-426.
Ah ok. I thought maybe I missed some EU detail. In the games it indeed does return to LV426 but it's explained by the Legato thing.
Shouldn't the Legato be the USCSS Legato, not the USS Legato (http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Legato)? I always assumed that USS was only for ships used by the government (and, by extension, the military).
Is that a Mikey Neumann original?
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 20, 2016, 01:34:45 AM
Quote from: SM on Sep 20, 2016, 01:18:38 AM
Not much point in trying to make it fit. Unless one wants to make it more fun by factoring in CMTM, and the arcade games Aliens Extermination and Alien3 - The Gun. And Earth War comics.
Who would do such a thing?
Yo.
You can make the arcade games fit too?
Alien3: The Gun can fit about as well as the Fury 161 level in AvPClassic, and I'd have to re-watch Extermination gameplay to know for sure, but I imagine you could get that to fit in similar ways as A:CM (or even say it's taking place concurrently, if you want).
My memory might be hazy, but I don't remember ACM explaining why the Sulaco went back to LV426 at all. The game has a few crucial questions raised but it tends to "jazz hand" over them.
Quote from: PsyKore on Sep 25, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
My memory might be hazy, but I don't remember ACM explaining why the Sulaco went back to LV426 at all. The game has a few crucial questions raised but it tends to "jazz hand" over them.
if I remember right, 'Stasis Interrupted' covered that.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 25, 2016, 02:53:56 AM
Alien3: The Gun can fit about as well as the Fury 161 level in AvPClassic, and I'd have to re-watch Extermination gameplay to know for sure, but I imagine you could get that to fit in similar ways as A:CM (or even say it's taking place concurrently, if you want).
What about the SNES version of Alien 3 that has a fully-armed Ripley fighting against hundreds of aliens on Fury 161? Can you make that fit too?
Quote from: PsyKore on Sep 25, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
My memory might be hazy, but I don't remember ACM explaining why the Sulaco went back to LV426 at all. The game has a few crucial questions raised but it tends to "jazz hand" over them.
I don't think it was covered. Hicks and Stone leave the Sulaco and head to Fiorina after the Legato is destroyed. Reid comments in the main game that it makes no sense for the Sulaco to be at LV-426, and Cruz agrees. I don't recall this ever being addressed.
Maybe after it had a hole blown in it near Phobos, it spiralled at faster than the speed of light back to LV-426...
Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 25, 2016, 08:35:30 PM
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 25, 2016, 02:53:56 AM
Alien3: The Gun can fit about as well as the Fury 161 level in AvPClassic, and I'd have to re-watch Extermination gameplay to know for sure, but I imagine you could get that to fit in similar ways as A:CM (or even say it's taking place concurrently, if you want).
What about the SNES version of Alien 3 that has a fully-armed Ripley fighting against hundreds of aliens on Fury 161? Can you make that fit too?
In a roundabout way you could probably turn it (and the Sega Genesis game) into an in-universe propaganda/simulation sort of thing, I guess.
Quote from: SM on Sep 26, 2016, 12:44:14 AM
Quote from: PsyKore on Sep 25, 2016, 11:36:46 AM
My memory might be hazy, but I don't remember ACM explaining why the Sulaco went back to LV426 at all. The game has a few crucial questions raised but it tends to "jazz hand" over them.
I don't think it was covered. Hicks and Stone leave the Sulaco and head to Fiorina after the Legato is destroyed. Reid comments in the main game that it makes no sense for the Sulaco to be at LV-426, and Cruz agrees. I don't recall this ever being addressed.
Maybe after it had a hole blown in it near Phobos, it spiralled at faster than the speed of light back to LV-426...
I got the impression from Stasis Interrupted that after the Legato docked with the Sulaco, the W-Y mercs piloted the Sulaco back to LV-426 (for reasons unknown), and at some point during all of this the Legato's Aliens ran rampant on the Sulaco, the WY mercs hunkered down, and then the events of the game took place.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 26, 2016, 06:06:45 AMWhat about the SNES version of Alien 3 that has a fully-armed Ripley fighting against hundreds of aliens on Fury 161? Can you make that fit too?
So you're not going to argue that the events depicted in the SNES and Genesis video games actually occurred in-universe?
There's ways you could, but I don't think it's necessary. :)
Quote from: Xenomrph on Sep 29, 2016, 04:24:43 AMThere's ways you could,
That would be fascinating. :)
Off the top of my head, maybe Morse talks about one of his recurring nightmares in his book 'Star Beast', wherein there's dozens of Aliens and Ripley has a gun and blasts them, and two competing indie game developers decide to make similar "retro" renditions of 'Star Beast: Morse's Nightmare'.
So the events of the SNES and Genesis games "occurred"... in Morse's head, in the form of a nightmare/PTSD recollection of 'Alien3'.
I like that explanation much more than "fuzzy continuity" or some quantum physical mumbo-jumbo. Nice job. :)
To each their own I guess. :)
Quote from: Russ on Sep 20, 2016, 08:09:39 AM
I have much love for this thread. Hat's off, Gold - really nice work in trying to tie all the pieces together and doing a really good job. Sure, there are questions that SM et al have raised, but honestly, I really enjoyed this take.
As I've said in other threads, I'm not really a gamer and such really enjoyed A:CM (it had pulse rifle's that sounded like pulse rifles and you got to shoot xenos... what more can anyone ask - well, plenty I guess, if you play a lot of games).
Like all these things, it suffers from bringing Hicks back an expedient way. I can see why they did it, but I do think that leaving him out and going with a "pure" sequel that didn't try to resurrect him might have made a better story?
(I should add I've not reversed my view There's been millions of words devoted to NBs reshuffle/boot/con/sequel thing and I'm firmly in the cryo-dream camp as I think that's the only logical way to bring him and the others back - but that a side issue to this).
I would have loved to have read a novelisation of A:CM honestly and find out what ended up on the cutting room floor (or mac recycle bin!) as I liked the characters (sorry, but I did).
I don't know Gold - you've put a load of effort into this - would you write it in full or even put a pitch out to Dark Horse or Titan (it is Titan that do the novels, isn't it?) Your ideas are great and astoundingly coherent - which in the Alien'verse is a hard thing to do. I'd love to see it go further - as long a shot as that is.
I mean - all they can say is "no" right? Given the effort you've gone to just on this forum, it'd be shame not to at least give it a whirl.
I wanted to bump this old thread for the new people. And thank Russ for his kind words. Some nice and interesting points in this thread.
Basically in this thread we tried to tie the events of Aliens, Alien3, the ACM Technical Manual and the Aliens: Colonial Marines game together.
Enjoy the work!
Thanks for bumping the thread, otherwise I would have completely missed it. I don't know the CMTM so I was completely oblivious to the plot connectivity between it and A:CM.
I'm not a big gamer although I do have A:CM / Stasis Interrupted and Alien: Isolation. I have to admit, a large part of the enjoyment I was able to glean from those games is because I have rather low expectations of the storytelling in games anyway. So for me, the bar is set rather low to begin with. Which means any game that manages to sustain my interest long enough for me to finish it is guaranteed a passing grade. :D
For me, in a FPS, the complexity of the story often gets swallowed up by the visceral demands of the game-play. IOW because the plot is secondary to twitch-satisfaction it's easy to stop paying attention to the story because your goal becomes not so much to understand what's going on, but to fight your way to the next level. Modern RPG games like The Last of Us and Detroit Become Human, which make a real effort to not only serve you up a plot but also an emotional experience, might influence the way stories in future FPS-styled games are designed, but it seems to be a very slow evolution. Detroit, especially, doubles down on the emotional experience by forcing you to take a moral or ethical stance within the story. Alien: Isolation was heading in this direction.
TC
The Last Of Us doesn't qualify as a modern RPG.
Nor would I say that Detroit or it are good examples of the medium maturing, Detroit because it's a terrible Civil Rights allegory, TLOU because it's essentially a purely cinematic and linear experience.
The Witcher by CDProjekt is hopefully where videogames are moving towards as a medium.
Ideally, for Alien- I'd want a game like the original Visceral Dead Space that builds tension constantly, with an unnerving atmosphere and a real history to a location that feels genuine because of the attention to detail in worldbuilding and believable functionality.
A third person RE4/DS style of survival horror with 6 or 7 unique weapons that are all different functionally but not ideal for everything you will encounter.
Healthpacks, an ammo type for each weapon and currency would be the three major world items.
It would have expertly written text and audio logs throughout that changes your perspective on the outbreak as you progress through the game.
To my preference, the game would be mostly stacked with Neomorphs, translucent and gaunt, with different varieties born from not only where they emerged but with deformities due to the host having any number of genetic predispositions or disabilities.
Some have acid blood, some don't but those that do it's extremely less potent than the Alien- eating through flesh but only a great deal to destroy metal.
Some have spines, some don't, some are larger than others, some have smooth skin, some are wrinkled.
You would see part of the shape of the human they emerged from underneath layers of their translucent skin, which you would see more of if you should dismember or eviscerate them, exposing different layers of very, very human features.
A great deal of them would move slowly upright but charge bipedally, leaping or hunched over.
Throw a few robot hazards in there for good measure, these unlike the Working Joes would not speak at all in contrast to the clicking and hissing, then gargled inhuman screaming as they detect you- of the Neomorphs. Robots not human in shape at all, designed for handling hazardous materials and working in a vacuum, only found in specific areas.
Automated powerloading machines.
The environment would harken back to the industrialism of Ron Cobb's work but this time there would be a great deal more blood, and not in a manner that all rooms are covered in it.
Just strange parts of specific areas, an Officer's quarters with no ventilation and only one door where the roof is drenched with blood. But nothing else.
A great deal of it, but used to build little stories- to create a sense of history, to build the horrific events that took place here in your mind, show don't tell.
There would be only a singular Alien, nigh invincible stalking you through the game in the environment but only active for about a third or twenty five percent of the whole game in total. Moving gracefully with purpose and intelligence, like the beast from Isolation.
That's my pitch for an Alien game.
The Alien.
I expect Disney to give us a PG-13 version of that.
Any license Disney holds hasn't had a triple A videogame or even modestly budgeted effort in over ten years, so I doubt it.
You're so pessimistic.
There is also this comic that tries to explain the Sulaco/Sephora events:
https://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_-_No_Man_Left_Behind
Anyone have it and is it possible for download anywhere?
Yes it is; don't remember where.
And it fails at explaining pretty much anything.
Spoiler
There's Aliens and WY commandos running around on the Sephora immediately prior to the events in the game.
Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 14, 2018, 09:37:28 AM
There is also this comic that tries to explain the Sulaco/Sephora events:
https://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_-_No_Man_Left_Behind
Anyone have it and is it possible for download anywhere?
Aye me hearty and on this 'ere very site:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/comic/acm-sdcc-comic.pdf (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/comic/acm-sdcc-comic.pdf)
Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Aug 14, 2018, 04:20:36 PM
Quote from: Wweyland on Aug 14, 2018, 09:37:28 AM
There is also this comic that tries to explain the Sulaco/Sephora events:
https://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Aliens:_Colonial_Marines_-_No_Man_Left_Behind
Anyone have it and is it possible for download anywhere?
Aye me hearty and on this 'ere very site:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/comic/acm-sdcc-comic.pdf (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/albums/games/alienscm/comic/acm-sdcc-comic.pdf)
Thanks, that is pretty bad. Was the Sephora infested at the start of the game though?
No.
Also, what is up with the "Adios" on O'Nealls smartgun. Happy coincidence perhaps?
He hax so he can have Vasquez legendary weapon.
Quote from: TC on Aug 10, 2018, 01:21:11 PM
Thanks for bumping the thread, otherwise I would have completely missed it. I don't know the CMTM so I was completely oblivious to the plot connectivity between it and A:CM.
I'm not a big gamer although I do have A:CM / Stasis Interrupted and Alien: Isolation. I have to admit, a large part of the enjoyment I was able to glean from those games is because I have rather low expectations of the storytelling in games anyway. So for me, the bar is set rather low to begin with. Which means any game that manages to sustain my interest long enough for me to finish it is guaranteed a passing grade. :D
For me, in a FPS, the complexity of the story often gets swallowed up by the visceral demands of the game-play. IOW because the plot is secondary to twitch-satisfaction it's easy to stop paying attention to the story because your goal becomes not so much to understand what's going on, but to fight your way to the next level. Modern RPG games like The Last of Us and Detroit Become Human, which make a real effort to not only serve you up a plot but also an emotional experience, might influence the way stories in future FPS-styled games are designed, but it seems to be a very slow evolution. Detroit, especially, doubles down on the emotional experience by forcing you to take a moral or ethical stance within the story. Alien: Isolation was heading in this direction.
TC
You're welcome!
I'm not a huge gamer either, but two movies are special for me: 1986 Aliens and 1984 Ghostbusters.
Coincidentally two video games released close to each other; Aliens: Colonial Marines and Ghostbusters: The Video Game really impressed me.
These games were the closest to a direct sequel to my favorite two films. With the original voice talent and characters and continuation of the story. A direct sequel. Dan Aykroyd and Harold Ramis even said as much in that they considered GBTVG story the official GB3.
GBTVG and ACM have great storylines in my view that continue the atmosphere and mood of the movies,
Like you can really explore that world that was shown in those two movies, the design, the feel, the essence of those worlds.
And being an Aliens fan who was always enamoured by the unused William Gibson scripts; scripts that expanded that world which we only had a tiny glimpse of in Aliens 1986, the A:CM video game was truly remarkable for me.
The whole Stasis Interrupted back story, the Legato, all the fake Bischops, the Resolute, the ultimate fate of the poor Sulaco (the unluckiest ship in the fleet according to the 1996 Technical Manual) becoming a sepulchral incubation vessel for kidnapped colonists, etc.
What I was most impressed by was the script of ACM; how it tied everything together that we had back then, the Technical Manuals' weird references to Sulaco Bishop (like I detailed on the first two pages of this thread), ALIENS, Alien3, the Shinyo Maru, Resolute, Legato and Patna, the human Bishop from A3, etc... and expanded on all of that and even brought Hicks back from that Godawful cheap low blow death at the beginning of A3!
As I mentioned in the first few pages of this thread, for me it solidified the fact that the bishop on board Sulaco was actually evil/nefarious after all, but that's my opinion. Check out my findings on the first few pages and see if you agree!
PS: That Last Man standing comic is terrible. Not only is it a very poor comic but it doesn't fit the story, I just ignore it.
ACM is terrible, there's not a redeeming thing about it.
It's a cheap, barely functional, badly written and performed cashgrab.
It's in competition with Requiem for the worst thing to be officially licensed for this franchise.
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 15, 2018, 10:49:34 AM
ACM is terrible, there's not a redeeming thing about it.
It's a cheap, barely functional, badly written and performed cashgrab.
It's in competition with Requiem for the worst thing to be officially licensed for this franchise.
That's way too harsh if you ask me. Requiem and ACM are worlds apart. ACM actually got something of a cult status amongs fans the past 3-4 years.
Cult status for being awful and inept, not due to having anything of value.
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 15, 2018, 11:46:45 AM
Cult status for being awful and inept, not due to having anything of value.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that :)
Quote from: gold on Aug 15, 2018, 11:40:09 AM
ACM actually got something of a cult status amongs fans the past 3-4 years.
There are still some people that like playing it online. The guys at the A:CM Bug Hunt Steam group have game sessions religiously every saturday since it's release, the admin have over 2000 hours of gameplay.
So I would say the multiplayer might have a cult status for some people.
:laugh: ACM has a cult status? :laugh:
As Samhain said, yes- on the multiplayer front because out of desperation people want to salvage something from it.
Credit to TemplarGFX for trying but ACM's legacy is one of failure on every level,
including the production being disingenuous.
There was never any intention on Randy Pitchford's part and subsequently Gearbox to make a quality product.
Woops i meant the single player.
Quote from: 426Buddy on Aug 15, 2018, 04:03:23 PM
:laugh: ACM has a cult status? :laugh:
Surely Turk alone is already enough to bestow cult status?
'Cult status' in the same way The Room has 'cult status'.
At least Tommy Wiseau had genuine passion for his project.
In retrospect I think if ACM had multiplayer only, or heavily focused on multiplayer, it would have been received better. The thing about that though is if they had done that we'd be bashing them for not including a campaign.
Quote from: SM on Aug 15, 2018, 08:40:52 PM
'Cult status' in the same way The Room has 'cult status'.
You just can't get over the fact that some people like A:CM can you?
Why is that? Like this unhealthy hatred that always rears it's head as soon as someone says something they like about it. It's like you're afraid of it or something.
*cough*
Quote from: SM on Sep 17, 2016, 10:23:01 PM
Writing in video games is generally neither here nor there for me, and while I don't dispute it's always fun shooting Aliens, this was quite possibly the worst written video game I've ever played.
(Also, as an aside, CMTM was published in 1995)
Quote from: gold on Aug 16, 2018, 01:10:38 AM
You just can't get over the fact that some people like A:CM can you?
Why is that? Like this unhealthy hatred that always rears it's head as soon as someone says something they like about it. It's like you're afraid of it or something.
I don't know about him, but it scares me to death, and not in a good way.
Quote from: The Old One on Aug 15, 2018, 10:49:34 AM
ACM is terrible, there's not a redeeming thing about it.
It's a cheap, barely functional, badly written and performed cashgrab.
It's in competition with Requiem for the worst thing to be officially licensed for this franchise.
Hoo boy are there officially licensed things that are "worse" than Requiem.
I mean, this is a franchise that's gotten officially licensed chidren's wristwatches. The rabbit-hole is real, real deep if you go digging.
As for no redeeming qualities, there are certain things I thought were genuinely executed well. I liked the visual design of the levels, I felt the aesthetics fit in well with 'Aliens'. I also liked the weapon selection - they felt like logical extensions of the guns from 'Aliens', and the "corporate" guns were distinct from the "USCM" guns both in form and function. Also pretty much every weapon and attachment was useful in some capacity, as opposed to most Aliens/AvP games where the Pulse Rifle is the best gun in the game. At least A:CM had moments where it was genuinely in your best interest to put the pulse rifle away and break out one of the other guns, rather than switching weapons only when you ran out of PR ammo. :P
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 15, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: gold on Aug 15, 2018, 11:40:09 AM
ACM actually got something of a cult status amongs fans the past 3-4 years.
There are still some people that like playing it online. The guys at the A:CM Bug Hunt Steam group have game sessions religiously every saturday since it's release, the admin have over 2000 hours of gameplay.
So I would say the multiplayer might have a cult status for some people.
To be fair, I always found the multiplayer genuinely entertaining (ignoring the various bugs that never got patched on consoles). It was nice to have an Alien game with more "updated" mechanics. I remember having so much fun on our various game nights.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Aug 16, 2018, 07:46:19 AM
Quote from: Samhain13 on Aug 15, 2018, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: gold on Aug 15, 2018, 11:40:09 AM
ACM actually got something of a cult status amongs fans the past 3-4 years.
There are still some people that like playing it online. The guys at the A:CM Bug Hunt Steam group have game sessions religiously every saturday since it's release, the admin have over 2000 hours of gameplay.
So I would say the multiplayer might have a cult status for some people.
To be fair, I always found the multiplayer genuinely entertaining (ignoring the various bugs that never got patched on consoles). It was nice to have an Alien game with more "updated" mechanics. I remember having so much fun on our various game nights.
It was the only game of the franchise that added a lot of customization for the multiplayer, both in apperance and weapons/xeno abilities, there were a lot of ways you could play, this kind of variety helps the player to not get bored. And since I like those things, it did make the multiplayer more enjoyable to me, as I felt those things were missing in the previous games, the customization on AVP2010 kind of disappointed me.
The third person for the aliens was another thing I liked.
Aaaargh why is killing Xeno's so much fun in this game ? :) :)
Right click, open image in new tab for the full carnage.
(https://i.imgur.com/eKSe6sv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dCYZQWO.jpg)
You should be floating in space right now. :o
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/5f/c1/60/5fc160c936de2388382f4929d39034f2--clown-meme-pennywise-the-clown.jpg)
Yes, join the rest in space, they all float up there.
Quote from: gold on Aug 24, 2018, 12:00:21 AM
Aaaargh why is killing Xeno's so much fun in this game ? :) :)
Right click, open image in new tab for the full carnage.
(https://i.imgur.com/eKSe6sv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dCYZQWO.jpg)
What a sight to see.