ok first of all i do not want to offend nobody!!!!
so far we have 2 types of predators....the original predators and the black predators...woldunt it be cool to have a few different type of predators like how we have different colored people? like the original predator would be the superior specie out of them all while the other types of predators would be weaker in ways like ex lack of strenght, lack of intelligent, lack of speed, lack of hunting skill...like we would have predators that have 4 hands and are 8ft tall and they are very strong stronger than the strongest original predator but they lack the skill to hunt so if you would encounter them they would just fight like a mad man until they get killed or get tired.. they woldunt be using any hunting skill they would just dive in on you like how an animal would....than we would have predators that are tall and skinny and very smart but lack the strenght so they woldunt be much of a match...so yeah there would be a bunch of different types of predators that are the same specie but are different and out of them all the original predators would be the best of the best..they would be ruling over the other predator types...
tell me what you guys think???i got this idea from the concept art pictures from predators 2010 gallery of the early predator designs
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15740&fullsize=1
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15750&fullsize=1
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15689&fullsize=1
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 02:08:49 AM
so far we have 2 types of predators....the original predators and the black predators...
Umm, no. Predator 2 already established that there are different 'types' of predators. And there was no depicted racism between them.
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 02:08:49 AM
ok first of all i do not want to offend nobody!!!!
so far we have 2 types of predators....the original predators and the black predators...woldunt it be cool to have a few different type of predators like how we have different colored people? like the original predator would be the superior specie out of them all while the other types of predators would be weaker in ways like ex lack of strenght, lack of intelligent, lack of speed, lack of hunting skill...like we would have predators that have 4 hands and are 8ft tall and they are very strong stronger than the strongest original predator but they lack the skill to hunt so if you would encounter them they would just fight like a mad man until they get killed or get tired.. they woldunt be using any hunting skill they would just dive in on you like how an animal would....than we would have predators that are tall and skinny and very smart but lack the strenght so they woldunt be much of a match...so yeah there would be a bunch of different types of predators that are the same specie but are different and out of them all the original predators would be the best of the best..they would be ruling over the other predator types...
tell me what you guys think???i got this idea from the concept art pictures from predators 2010 gallery of the early predator designs
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15740&fullsize=1
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15750&fullsize=1
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=15689&fullsize=1
We already see potential race differences in the super predators.
Mr Black is dark grey and red.
Falconer is a cream colour and green
Tracker is cream and (I forget what other colour)
The three super preds could potentially just be like an asian, a black guy and a white guy. That kind of situation.
The classic preds would have a similar situation going on.
The difference between The classics and super preds is that they are different species. A bit like how Homo sapiens are different to Neanderthals. (that is a loose example and is not to be taken too literally).
Offcourse not every predator has the same face,
but like RR said you can see them as dogs and wolves.
That could also mean if you look at the dog race you see lots of different types aggresive,smart,non violent etc.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi55.tinypic.com%2Fw9i82c.png&hash=09447588c035c1b09d418a5cbd96647184a2793e)
Anybody seen this on the classic pred i never seen it in Predator1 so im guessing markings? or just damaged helmet structure?
The "classic" predators vary a lot, as do the "supers". If we use Nolan's analagy about the dogs and wolves, Anytime is a doberman and Pussyface is a german shepard. They're both dogs, but different breeds. The BSPs are different to the classic, while remaining similar, and have their own breed variations. Effectively they're different species with their own variant breeds.
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 29, 2010, 11:12:55 AM
The "classic" predators vary a lot, as do the "supers". If we use Nolan's analagy about the dogs and wolves, Anytime is a doberman and Pussyface is a german shepard. They're both dogs, but different breeds. The BSPs are different to the classic, while remaining similar, and have their own breed variations. Effectively they're different species with their own variant breeds.
Hang on a second.
Wolves and dogs can inter-breed so they are not different species.
If the BSPs are different species. Then they aren't predators. They are a different type of lifeform.
Quote from: DrGediman on Oct 29, 2010, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 29, 2010, 11:12:55 AM
The "classic" predators vary a lot, as do the "supers". If we use Nolan's analagy about the dogs and wolves, Anytime is a doberman and Pussyface is a german shepard. They're both dogs, but different breeds. The BSPs are different to the classic, while remaining similar, and have their own breed variations. Effectively they're different species with their own variant breeds.
Hang on a second.
Wolves and dogs can inter-breed so they are not different species.
If the BSPs are different species. Then they aren't predators. They are a different type of lifeform.
Dogs and wolves are members of the canine family. Humans and Neanderthals are members of the hominid family. The two types of preds are members of the predator family. Think of it that way. They are different species within a certain "classification".
Quote from: DrGediman on Oct 29, 2010, 11:18:44 AM
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 29, 2010, 11:12:55 AM
The "classic" predators vary a lot, as do the "supers". If we use Nolan's analagy about the dogs and wolves, Anytime is a doberman and Pussyface is a german shepard. They're both dogs, but different breeds. The BSPs are different to the classic, while remaining similar, and have their own breed variations. Effectively they're different species with their own variant breeds.
Hang on a second.
Wolves and dogs can inter-breed so they are not different species.
If the BSPs are different species. Then they aren't predators. They are a different type of lifeform.
They share common ancestry true, but they are not the same animal. Otherwise wolves would be called dogs. They are in the same biological family along with foxes, jackals and coyotes.
Yeah. So I guess the term Predator could be used in the same way as the word Canine.
Sub-species?
What we know is that there are two types of predators.. they are similar but they are not the same (like wolves and dogs) and we can only difference them comparing their height..
Which begs the question, how many different types of predators are there?
I think every single predator from every movie was from different breeds.. anytime, pussyface wolf predator.. except the AvP predators, they were from the same breed.. now about the super preds i think they re from a different specie...
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
all predators, all different races, in humans there isnt a big genetic difference because of the ice ages, but it is more like black asian and whites than neanderthal and homo sapiens (theres a difference between species and races)....
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
wait arent there so far 2 predator species? black predators and jungle predators...the predator in predator 2 was the same as the jungle predator no?
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
wait arent there so far 2 predator species? black predators and jungle predators...the predator in predator 2 was the same as the jungle predator no?
Not really. Its scull was a different shape and it had extra mandibles. Similar, but still different.
Quote from: WolfPredator89 on Oct 29, 2010, 01:13:03 PM
What we know is that there are two types of predators.. they are similar but they are not the same (like wolves and dogs) and we can only difference them comparing their height..
There height
and the fact that they have major differences in their facial structure.
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
all predators, all different races, in humans there isnt a big genetic difference because of the ice ages, but it is more like black asian and whites than neanderthal and homo sapiens (theres a difference between species and races)....
Or snake races
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 30, 2010, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
wait arent there so far 2 predator species? black predators and jungle predators...the predator in predator 2 was the same as the jungle predator no?
Not really. Its scull was a different shape and it had extra mandibles. Similar, but still different.
The P1 and P2 Predators are like different breeds of dogs.
The super Predators would be like Wolves. A sub species but still part of the canine family. Judging by their variations in skin pigmentation, I reckon they would have different breeds as well.
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 30, 2010, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
wait arent there so far 2 predator species? black predators and jungle predators...the predator in predator 2 was the same as the jungle predator no?
Not really. Its scull was a different shape and it had extra mandibles. Similar, but still different.
well i dont know about that but i know that the predator in the 1st film could see in red while the 2nd predator in the second film could see in heat vision so you might be right about them being different because of the different eye vision
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 30, 2010, 01:25:19 AM
Quote from: tonyzork on Oct 30, 2010, 12:12:23 AM
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 29, 2010, 11:50:07 PM
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
wait arent there so far 2 predator species? black predators and jungle predators...the predator in predator 2 was the same as the jungle predator no?
Not really. Its scull was a different shape and it had extra mandibles. Similar, but still different.
well i dont know about that but i know that the predator in the 1st film could see in red while the 2nd predator in the second film could see in heat vision so you might be right about them being different because of the different eye vision
all of the predators have for mandibles, its the amount of teeth they have that is different and i think p2 lacked a joint. some have small horns on there heads too.
We have seen in all the movies that there is just as much diversity within the predator species as our own.
Every individual is different, just like people. They have varying skin colours, different patterns on their bodies, different shapes & sizes. Just look closely at the end of Predator 2 for the best possible example of this.
Quote from: Nightmare on Oct 29, 2010, 11:44:27 PM
I think of them more like dog races, still dogs, but very different beetween themselves
BSP are like pitbullls, Classic maybe a rotweiller, and P2 is kinda a boxer
all predators, all different races, in humans there isnt a big genetic difference because of the ice ages, but it is more like black asian and whites than neanderthal and homo sapiens (theres a difference between species and races)....
that is why there is two species of predators, the super preds and the classic ones.. super preds are very different from the previous movies predators.. just the head and where the dreads are.. the height... makes them very different, and in the classic specie there is different breed like anytime and pussyface, they have some differences but not so drastic like the superpreds compared to anytime... in the super preds specie there must be breeds too, falconer and berserker should be from different breeds but maybe falconer and the tracker are from the same one, just the colour of the dreads change...
I don't see the ones from Predators to be any more different from the originals than the preds from the first AvP. In that film they had a completely different facial structure & were noticeably more bulky, not to mention their style of technology was unlike any used by the predators in the other movies.
I don't think it's right to just categorize the species down the middle by saying there are only the classic/super breeds, as all of them are very diverse in their own right.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_bSLIuMbYY3Q%2FSfHNbrPEuxI%2FAAAAAAAAC1o%2F4RH4cwHN0us%2Fs400%2Fpredator1.jpg&hash=80f5798a2206ceafc9c6c80f0bf3b82e6ff968e3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.starpulse.com%2FPhotos%2FPreviews%2FAVP-BH-03.jpg&hash=3ad3215685542a0a6209143b67b8449849d52478)
Now look at this comparison....
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_bSLIuMbYY3Q%2FSfHNbrPEuxI%2FAAAAAAAAC1o%2F4RH4cwHN0us%2Fs400%2Fpredator1.jpg&hash=80f5798a2206ceafc9c6c80f0bf3b82e6ff968e3)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.peliculas.info%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F06%2FPredators-5-450x3001.jpg&hash=50d1b2d4a537d5045341f8a7da968d954a79d019)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.notasdecine.es%2Ffiles%2F2010%2F06%2Fpredators-trailer-internacional.jpg&hash=3d70d0d50734683ecaad63316cd434e288e039f2)
that is why there is two species of predators, the super preds and the classic ones.. super preds are very different from the previous movies predators.. just the head and where the dreads are.. the height... makes them very different, and in the classic specie there is different breed like anytime and pussyface, they have some differences but not so drastic like the superpreds compared to anytime...
The entire facial structure is different on all 3 types. Regarding height, we saw at the end of Predator 2 that the species come in all different sizes. Technically, the 'super' preds are shorter than the ones from all the other movies.
Look at the head from the classic ones... where the dreads start the shape of the head is like a crown... now the super preds dont have it... every predator from Predator 1 Predator 2 AvP and Avp:R have that crown shape except the ne ones from Predators....
Quote from: WolfPredator89 on Oct 30, 2010, 11:57:49 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bSLIuMbYY3Q/SfHNbrPEuxI/AAAAAAAAC1o/4RH4cwHN0us/s400/predator1.jpg
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/AVP-BH-03.jpg
Now look at this comparison....
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bSLIuMbYY3Q/SfHNbrPEuxI/AAAAAAAAC1o/4RH4cwHN0us/s400/predator1.jpg
http://www.peliculas.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Predators-5-450x3001.jpg
http://www.notasdecine.es/files/2010/06/predators-trailer-internacional.jpg
that is why there is two species of predators, the super preds and the classic ones.. super preds are very different from the previous movies predators.. just the head and where the dreads are.. the height... makes them very different, and in the classic specie there is different breed like anytime and pussyface, they have some differences but not so drastic like the superpreds compared to anytime...
you know what the picture makes me think of the black pred? is that he might have another mask on his face!?
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 30, 2010, 03:44:21 PM
you know what the picture makes me think of the black pred? is that he might have another mask on his face!?
Lol, that's just a bad production photo, it looked pretty good in the movie I thought.
In regards to the differences between all the predators, yes they obviously have individual characteristics, but there are also obviously races within their species as well. We have seen several different predators that shared features with the original, some that had a similar appearance to Predator 2, & many at the end of AvP looked a lot alike.
The 'super' predators in the most recent film are most likely just another race with their own physical traits.
Quote from: Stalker on Oct 31, 2010, 12:25:28 AM
Quote from: Psycho on Oct 30, 2010, 03:44:21 PM
you know what the picture makes me think of the black pred? is that he might have another mask on his face!?
Lol, that's just a bad production photo, it looked pretty good in the movie I thought.
In regards to the differences between all the predators, yes they obviously have individual characteristics, but there are also obviously races within their species as well. We have seen several different predators that shared features with the original, some that had a similar appearance to Predator 2, & many at the end of AvP looked a lot alike.
The 'super' predators in the most recent film are most likely just another race with their own physical traits.
Yeah. The way I take it is that the classics and Supers are a different species to each other but come from the same family (Canine for example). And within each species there would be different breeds. (like dogs)
Its not just the head thats different on the BSPs. Their bodys are covered in scales, especially the chest, triceps and thighs and back.
All predators have scales, but the ones on the 'super' preds did seem to be larger & more pronounced. Although we've seen that in each movie the skin always has a different texture, markings & colouring.
Anyway is not what we think is what as established in the movie... there are two types of predators the big ones(super preds) and the smaller ones(classic ones) and for what we can tell in the classic ones there must be different breeds cause pussyface and anytime are very different.... but in the movie have been established that falconer tracker and berserker are different from the rest of the predators
Quote from: WolfPredator89 on Oct 31, 2010, 01:52:22 PM
Anyway is not what we think is what as established in the movie... there are two types of predators the big ones(super preds) and the smaller ones(classic ones) and for what we can tell in the classic ones there must be different breeds cause pussyface and anytime are very different.... but in the movie have been established that falconer tracker and berserker are different from the rest of the predators
They were also different from each other. All 3 had unique skin textures & colouring, for all we know under the mask they may have looked nothing alike.
Quote from: Stalker on Nov 01, 2010, 06:43:43 AM
Quote from: WolfPredator89 on Oct 31, 2010, 01:52:22 PM
Anyway is not what we think is what as established in the movie... there are two types of predators the big ones(super preds) and the smaller ones(classic ones) and for what we can tell in the classic ones there must be different breeds cause pussyface and anytime are very different.... but in the movie have been established that falconer tracker and berserker are different from the rest of the predators
They were also different from each other. All 3 had unique skin textures & colouring, for all we know under the mask they may have looked nothing alike.
yeah cause in the super predators type there must be different breeds too!
Quote from: Stalker on Nov 01, 2010, 06:43:43 AM
Quote from: WolfPredator89 on Oct 31, 2010, 01:52:22 PM
Anyway is not what we think is what as established in the movie... there are two types of predators the big ones(super preds) and the smaller ones(classic ones) and for what we can tell in the classic ones there must be different breeds cause pussyface and anytime are very different.... but in the movie have been established that falconer tracker and berserker are different from the rest of the predators
They were also different from each other. All 3 had unique skin textures & colouring, for all we know under the mask they may have looked nothing alike.
The Super Preds would probably have differences in their facial features too. But despite that, the super preds would all have a universal look that sets them apart from the classic pred look.
1st i'm tired of saying SBP, black preds, super preds and super black preds. someone said bad bloods and i think the name fits so from now on i'll call them bad bloods. if you remember the predator comic bad blood series about that insane predator who was crazy and tough as these new preds, that's why i think the name fits.
you can compare the predator's head from the 1st movie with the predator's head from the 2nd movie and think they are different species because of how radically different their heads are. in predator 2 he's got jagged forehead ridges, his texture is radically colored and patterned, and he's got horns on his mandibles. and the crazy thing is his predator 2 elder looks almost nothing like him at all. the elder looks like an old version of 1st movie but get this, he's got lizard patterned small horns on his cheeks and above his brow.
in avpr movie, wolf is a combination of the 1st 2 movie predators. so i think there are different types of predators like how we have different color people.
to the bad bloods
the bad bloods have scale skin which the regular predators haven't been seen with yet. but it makes me think if reg preds can have lizard horns maybe they can have scale skin too. tracker has tusks but since reg predators can have horns on their mandibles why can't they have tusks too? if you look tracker and falconer have the same skin type but berserker scale skin is different, more extreme, more colorful. it makes me think if we had seen tracker or falconer's face it wouldn't look as extreme as berserker's.
which makes me think, is berserker genetically altered? or is he a different race of bad blood? dogs didn't start off as dogs. our species tamed the wolf into dogs, so you could see noland's statement as maybe the bad bloods genetically altered themselves to be better hunters?
to me if the reg preds can't have scale skin like bad bloods, then they are a different species like the different species of humans that once existed. and if they are reg preds who genetically altered themselves, they are a different species.
Quote from: mythology on Nov 04, 2010, 01:52:06 AM
1st i'm tired of saying SBP, black preds, super preds and super black preds. someone said bad bloods and i think the name fits so from now on i'll call them bad bloods. if you remember the predator comic bad blood series about that insane predator who was crazy and tough as these new preds, that's why i think the name fits.
you can compare the predator's head from the 1st movie with the predator's head from the 2nd movie and think they are different species because of how radically different their heads are. in predator 2 he's got jagged forehead ridges, his texture is radically colored and patterned, and he's got horns on his mandibles. and the crazy thing is his predator 2 elder looks almost nothing like him at all. the elder looks like an old version of 1st movie but get this, he's got lizard patterned small horns on his cheeks and above his brow.
in avpr movie, wolf is a combination of the 1st 2 movie predators. so i think there are different types of predators like how we have different color people.
to the bad bloods
the bad bloods have scale skin which the regular predators haven't been seen with yet. but it makes me think if reg preds can have lizard horns maybe they can have scale skin too. tracker has tusks but since reg predators can have horns on their mandibles why can't they have tusks too? if you look tracker and falconer have the same skin type but berserker scale skin is different, more extreme, more colorful. it makes me think if we had seen tracker or falconer's face it wouldn't look as extreme as berserker's.
which makes me think, is berserker genetically altered? or is he a different race of bad blood? dogs didn't start off as dogs. our species tamed the wolf into dogs, so you could see noland's statement as maybe the bad bloods genetically altered themselves to be better hunters?
to me if the reg preds can't have scale skin like bad bloods, then they are a different species like the different species of humans that once existed. and if they are reg preds who genetically altered themselves, they are a different species.
The genetically altered idea sounds like fanboy fap to me. Not trying to sound insulting.
It is interesting that the tracker and falconer have very different skin colouration to Mr Black. It would seem that the Superpreds have the same situation going on as the classics.
For example, Mr Black could be an anytime version of the Superpreds and the falconer could be the Pussyface version of the Superpreds.
Now thats a loose example. What I'm getting at is that The Superpreds probs have different breeds within their own species like the Classic preds have. Makes sense.
Rodriguez originally had them being "super" preds because they were genetically enhanced to be better hunters. This idea was replaced by the dog/wolf theory. There is nothing super about the new preds, that was just their original title and it stuck.
Fair enough.
Quote from: DrGediman on Oct 29, 2010, 11:18:44 AM
Hang on a second.
Wolves and dogs can inter-breed so they are not different species.
If the BSPs are different species. Then they aren't predators. They are a different type of lifeform.
Only reason I am pointing it out is that there is a very pervasive myth that ability to interbreed makes two things the same species, or the same sub-species.
Many people think genetics goes all comes down to genes, when actually it goes all the way down to alleles on the genes.
The alleles effect the expression of the genes, and it is the patterns of gene expression that makes a species unique.
Sometimes you can take genes from another and switch them out, and due to genetic compatibility you still get a living and even fertile offspring, but the pattern of gene expression has been so radically changed that the physical and behavioral characteristics make it no longer fitting into either group properly.
Genetic relatedness does not necessarily mean the same species, nor does ability to have fertile offspring.
Some hybrids have hetero sterility, while some mixtures are very fertile.
Wolves (Canis lupus) and dogs (Canis lupus familiaris) are a different species (lupus) than coyotes (Canis latrans),
Wolves can also inter-breed with Coyotes, and produce fertile offspring, but are regarded as two separate species.
There are NO separate genes between a Chiwawa and a Rottweiler, all that difference is controlled by the alleles.
They are even closer related than the various races of humans, whom all also have the same genes, yet the difference in alleles accounts for a difference of less than 1%.
Depending on which two human groups you compare, you will get a difference of anywhere from 0.08% to 0.23%, and that is only when the alleles on ALL the genes have been counted. Some groups have the exact same alleles on some individual genes as well.
So using this data, how does this relate to the Super-Predatorss, and Regular Predators? Are they simply racial differences? Are they sub-species within the same Species? Are they different Species within the same Genus?
Its hard to say. Even on OUR on world our taxonomy system has contradictions.
If we base it on physical differences then how could anybody put a pomeranian in the same species as a Rottweiler? They are regarded as the same species.
If we use genetics as our razor, then why aren't the highland and lowland Gorillas regarded as the same species? The genetic distance between the two species of gorilla, Gorilla gorilla and G. beringei, 0.04%. No accredited zoo would ever put them together. They are treated as two seperate speices all together.
(Guillen, 2005; Jensen-Seaman, 2000).
The genetic distance between the two chimpanzee species is 0.103%. (cooper 1997)
Now get this, the genetic distance between Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis is <0.08%.
(Nov. 17, 2006. Sequencing and analysis of Neanderthal genomic DNA. Science, 314(5802):1113-1118)
See how complex this is? There is no one prefect way to go about it, as genetic relatedness can still have vast physical and behavior differences.
Humans share 67% of our DNA with a fruit fly, and 98% with a Chimpanzee.
How would we go about accurately categorizing Extra-terrestrials, who look similar, and behave similar? There is no way to know what the genetic difference is, if they have the same genes and only alleles separate them or not.
Even if they have the same genes, and can interbreed, they may avoid doing so due to a behavior that they have become very unique in physical characteristics.
Heck, for all we know they could be two different genders of the exact same group! Offhand I find that unlikely, but really they are so alien to us it is impossible to say for, let alone weather they are a different race, or in fact different species all together.
Maybe I'm just not seeing the big picture here, but I think everyone is looking at this in totally the wrong way. Maybe this has nothing to do with (dog/wolf), baybe its based on society. It could be as simple as casts. There could be leader casts, warrior casts, noble casts, worker casts, each cast looking deferent. They fit into deferent rolls in the society. This isn't a huge stretch really. Look at ants, the worker ants look deferent than the warrior ants, who look deferent from the scouting ants, who look deferent from the queen. Each cast is bread deferently, allowing for whatever they are specialised in. In doing this their features will change. Through generations of breeding, certain things will become dominant, such as horns on mandibles, or scales, or even the exagerated desines on the bad blood "berserker". I understand they are all hunters and warriors, I'm not arguing that. But it could be that the new preds are a higher cast, maybe a kind of nobility in the Predator society. Just my thoughts anyway.
This is skull of P1 pred P2 pred and BSP:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliensgroup.pl%2Fszop_pictures%2F10001%2F10044%2F003198-04.jpg&hash=a13c24549b28cfcececb70c113688589d374a1e4)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revengemonst.com%2Fproduct%2Fimg1%2F93.jpg&hash=91cf93e1dbfb1532eeaf4745a85548635c9526f9)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aliensgroup.pl%2Fszop_pictures%2F10001%2F10044%2F003219-03.jpg&hash=e73014a4846dd77bf34e8cad194194857e9a890a)
I can`t find AvP predator skull.
Here you have Black, White and Asian human skull:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-110-md.jpg&hash=d7acac070d0dbbb6897eafc9ba069b07ee0dba01)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-107-md.jpg&hash=3de6775aa86a079f1ab15e46bec350a7880d3e41)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-016-md.jpg&hash=9a34873509232021cb3cbfeaf4dba609c519d389)
Diferences are very noticable, but it gets better. Try to tell to which standard race those skulls belong:
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-031-md.jpg&hash=11e963177d5bc870686da6bd8fe65b88a7be8d90)
Spoiler
aborigen, black
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-213-md_web.jpg&hash=f4e96377a6ec641a75708710f70c0307cc765554)
Spoiler
north american indian, asian
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boneclones.com%2Fimages%2Fbc-302-md.jpg&hash=e96c9529ad341b7764edcc1a5fe5f713f85427b3)
Spoiler
polinesian, asian
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.latinamericanstudies.org%2Fteotihuacan%2Fcranial-manipulation.jpg&hash=5ba3a91141f53f9f12ee911ccf7603f64d1d8478)
Spoiler
south america indian, asian with skull post-natal manipulation
My point is that we just can`t say if those different races or sub-races or sub-species of thesame race, judgeing on skull shape only.
Also all of those humans presented above can have fertile offspring with one another. But Neanderthals couldn`t have one with Homo sapiens even though their bone structure and behavioral characteristics weren`t so different.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Furl%3Fsource%3Dimgres%26amp%3Bct%3Dtbn%26amp%3Bq%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhbdbooks.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F06%2FAboriginal-vs.-Slav.jpg%26amp%3Busg%3DAFQjCNEKVzGDJ1y35RBd5ZgRC2UPaMi8bg&hash=cf5b087653a479ca61205f92f6a3b6d9e0905047)
Quote from: Master on Jan 31, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
Also all of those humans presented above can have fertile offspring with one another. But Neanderthals couldn`t have one with Homo sapiens even though their bone structure and behavioral characteristics weren`t so different.
Even that has come into Question, as far as the Neanderthals. There has been some data now showing a high% of Neanderthal allele patterns displayed in a few groups of humans. Not that this means for sure if they are different species, or perhaps Neanderthals were closer to humans, or even should be in the same species as ourselves. More data is needed, but to political implications it is not an easy field to study.
Then again Ability to produce fertile offspring is not a good indicator of species either, as there are plenty of animals that can produce fertile heterozygous offspring, but almost never do in the wild, and are regarded as different species.
There are a ton of birds that can, Coyotes and Wolves, Bonobos and Chimps etc...
If its that confusing down here I simply cannot fathom applying it to an alien in any sure way.
They're just bigger and savage. that's all ..
Quote from: Meathead320 on Feb 04, 2011, 10:13:57 PM
Quote from: Master on Jan 31, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
Also all of those humans presented above can have fertile offspring with one another. But Neanderthals couldn`t have one with Homo sapiens even though their bone structure and behavioral characteristics weren`t so different.
Even that has come into Question, as far as the Neanderthals. There has been some data now showing a high% of Neanderthal allele patterns displayed in a few groups of humans. Not that this means for sure if they are different species, or perhaps Neanderthals were closer to humans, or even should be in the same species as ourselves. More data is needed, but to political implications it is not an easy field to study.
Then again Ability to produce fertile offspring is not a good indicator of species either, as there are plenty of animals that can produce fertile heterozygous offspring, but almost never do in the wild, and are regarded as different species.
There are a ton of birds that can, Coyotes and Wolves, Bonobos and Chimps etc...
If its that confusing down here I simply cannot fathom applying it to an alien in any sure way.
Yeah.
It is now highly believed by scientists that the Neanderthal species was actually absorbed into the human species. Had I been an expert in the area, I'm sure I could bring forth some more proof.
And something about the Pred debate.
If I were to use the evolution of humans as a loose reference, then I guess we could say the classics are humans. Anytime being white, pussyface being asian (again, just an example). The Classics having there own cultural and racial diversity, like humans.
The "super" preds would be more like the neanderthals. And I say this whilst referring mainly to how they split away from the line that led to humans, but share a common ancestry. A very common ancestry actually.
I`d say they are even closer. By analogy P1 is like Slavic sub-race of white race and P2 is Nordic sub-race, while BSP and other SPs are black race (different races of same species).
Quote from: Master on Feb 05, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
I`d say they are even closer. By analogy P1 is like Slavic sub-race of white race and P2 is Nordic sub-race, while BSP and other SPs are black race (different races of same species).
I wouldn't say that close. The supers have major differences in their skull. As in, aspects of it are structured completely differently.
If we were to compare them against humans (which is a good way to do it) you'll notice that the differences between pussy face and anytimes skulls are a similar in the contrast between different races of humans skulls, if not more. IT seems the most plausible to assume they are different races.
Supers skulls are just completely different which alludes to a split in the evolutionary path. Plus it would appear that they have their own races. (the 3 supers have different skin colour to each other).
Now people could pull out the excuse "But they are aliens, so the differences could mean nothing"
But if we look at it from a logical, evolutionary point of view, the differences point to a more conclusive explanation being that the classics, are one predator species (with races) and the Supers are another predator species (with their own races).
Quote from: samoht on Feb 05, 2011, 01:52:57 AM
Quote from: Master on Feb 05, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
I`d say they are even closer. By analogy P1 is like Slavic sub-race of white race and P2 is Nordic sub-race, while BSP and other SPs are black race (different races of same species).
I wouldn't say that close. The supers have major differences in their skull. As in, aspects of it are structured completely differently.
If we were to compare them against humans (which is a good way to do it) you'll notice that the differences between pussy face and anytimes skulls are a similar in the contrast between different races of humans skulls, if not more. IT seems the most plausible to assume they are different races.
Supers skulls are just completely different which alludes to a split in the evolutionary path. Plus it would appear that they have their own races. (the 3 supers have different skin colour to each other).
Now people could pull out the excuse "But they are aliens, so the differences could mean nothing"
But if we look at it from a logical, evolutionary point of view, the differences point to a more conclusive explanation being that the classics, are one predator species (with races) and the Supers are another predator species (with their own races).
With the limited amount of info we have, it is not yet 100% for sure if we are not dealing with different genders within the same species.
Offhand, that seems unlikely, but just pointing out that all options should be left on the table.
It could be something out of left field.
Quote from: Meathead320 on Feb 05, 2011, 02:33:19 AM
Quote from: samoht on Feb 05, 2011, 01:52:57 AM
Quote from: Master on Feb 05, 2011, 12:50:54 AM
I`d say they are even closer. By analogy P1 is like Slavic sub-race of white race and P2 is Nordic sub-race, while BSP and other SPs are black race (different races of same species).
I wouldn't say that close. The supers have major differences in their skull. As in, aspects of it are structured completely differently.
If we were to compare them against humans (which is a good way to do it) you'll notice that the differences between pussy face and anytimes skulls are a similar in the contrast between different races of humans skulls, if not more. IT seems the most plausible to assume they are different races.
Supers skulls are just completely different which alludes to a split in the evolutionary path. Plus it would appear that they have their own races. (the 3 supers have different skin colour to each other).
Now people could pull out the excuse "But they are aliens, so the differences could mean nothing"
But if we look at it from a logical, evolutionary point of view, the differences point to a more conclusive explanation being that the classics, are one predator species (with races) and the Supers are another predator species (with their own races).
With the limited amount of info we have, it is not yet 100% for sure if we are not dealing with different genders within the same species.
Offhand, that seems unlikely, but just pointing out that all options should be left on the table.
It could be something out of left field.
Of course man.
I'm just pointing out the most plausible and most probable explanation.
What I noticed from the movie is that beside the head... there's nothing truly different.
And still, Pussyface had somehow a different head shape too compared to Anytime even if it's closer to it than the PREDATORS noobish from Roberto.
What tell us the movie:
-Nolan states that the 'Super' type predators are larger and rules the smaller somehow with this sort of war (anyway it tried to say they are more badass).
What show us the movie:
-3 Predators hunting 8 people... 2 people survived, all of the super were killed.
-The 3 Super dude never shown smart move. They were most of the time dumb.
-Nolan had mental issue.
What show us Predator:
-1 Predator killed 6 men + destroyed an helicopter and killed the people in. Only Dutch survived.
-Until blain death where Mac made him bleed he never committed a mistake.
My conclusion (Personal opinion, right to disagree but it'll still... be mine):
The Super Predators never appeared to be 'larger' than the original. Even more, compared to Anytime vs. Dutch close sequence and Royce vs Berzerker or Hanzo vs Super, they seems even smaller (big lol).
Also, the original vs super predator scene show it perfectly, they share the exact same size (I guess all the guys involved in the movie never tried to put logic. After all, art can be without logic nah?).
About Nolan case, I don't know if he's schizophrenic, mental breakdown or whatever (and I honestly don't care) but he's some trouble minded dude and somehow like to 'make-up' story.
He's some kind of nice story teller to get close to people for killing them after so I wouldn't take his words seriously.
My opinion about the Super:
A bullshit, it's hollywood after all and it's a fashion since years to say that in a sequel you 're-invented' the genre while the movie show us it's a poor copy/paste with the intention of adding more badass element that will beat or arrived at the same status as the original while... it's crap.
So I would say yes for the skin colour, it's just a matter of 'minor' differences between individuals who belongs to the same specie. It's not a sub-specie, just a... let's say it was just nothing and we're dealing with normal Predator here (just remove nolan quote from the movie and everything becomes clear).
Quote from: Le Celticant on Feb 05, 2011, 04:50:23 PM
What I noticed from the movie is that beside the head... there's nothing truly different.
And still, Pussyface had somehow a different head shape too compared to Anytime even if it's closer to it than the PREDATORS noobish from Roberto.
What tell us the movie:
-Nolan states that the 'Super' type predators are larger and rules the smaller somehow with this sort of war (anyway it tried to say they are more badass).
What show us the movie:
-3 Predators hunting 8 people... 2 people survived, all of the super were killed.
-The 3 Super dude never shown smart move. They were most of the time dumb.
-Nolan had mental issue.
What show us Predator:
-1 Predator killed 6 men + destroyed an helicopter and killed the people in. Only Dutch survived.
-Until blain death where Mac made him bleed he never committed a mistake.
My conclusion (Personal opinion, right to disagree but it'll still... be mine):
The Super Predators never appeared to be 'larger' than the original. Even more, compared to Anytime vs. Dutch close sequence and Royce vs Berzerker or Hanzo vs Super, they seems even smaller (big lol).
Also, the original vs super predator scene show it perfectly, they share the exact same size (I guess all the guys involved in the movie never tried to put logic. After all, art can be without logic nah?).
About Nolan case, I don't know if he's schizophrenic, mental breakdown or whatever (and I honestly don't care) but he's some trouble minded dude and somehow like to 'make-up' story.
He's some kind of nice story teller to get close to people for killing them after so I wouldn't take his words seriously.
My opinion about the Super:
A bullshit, it's hollywood after all and it's a fashion since years to say that in a sequel you 're-invented' the genre while the movie show us it's a poor copy/paste with the intention of adding more badass element that will beat or arrived at the same status as the original while... it's crap.
So I would say yes for the skin colour, it's just a matter of 'minor' differences between individuals who belongs to the same specie. It's not a sub-specie, just a... let's say it was just nothing and we're dealing with normal Predator here (just remove nolan quote from the movie and everything becomes clear).
That kind of made sense....
Noland may be crazy, but the directors put the line about the supers for a reason. They didn't put it in just to secretly trick the audience into thinking one thing....
And yeah, Berserker was bigger than classic.
The Concrete Jungle Predator is the tallest at 9ft.
And this matters or is relevant how?