Personally, i'd very much like to see WY take a MUCH more menacing approach as a genetics company, as we havent really seen them do much aside from A:R just to understand the concept of how the xenomorph works. And by menacing approach, I mean, use subjects OTHER than humans, similar to that of the xeno king or Kenner toy line; That shit was the BEST :laugh: Anyway, it'd be nice for them to popularize the toyline once again with some the kickass creations, especially the gorilla xeno ;)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc05.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Ff%2F2012%2F195%2F5%2F4%2Fxenomorph_rex_by_nebezial-d578eds.jpg&hash=bf66927d143de2f8649c6fb920cbc67a7cf20f90)
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
I prefer them to operate in the grey area, like they did in the first three films, or the first two especially.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
I prefer them to operate in the grey area, like they did in the first three films, or the first two especially.
Yeah, i'd rather that WY just be a thing there and not so much be the guys being evil for evils sake.
Might be interesting to take a page out of Heart of Darkness, though. Some USCM types taking control of specimens to find their origin and destroy them, and in the process being overrun by them. Good intentions that go awry would be better than playing the card for evil.
I'd personally like it to leave all that behind. I want a character study of Ripley 8 and her connection to the Aliens.
The WY badness should remain as the background story rather than being a main push in the plot. Also I think it should be implied that it's a group within WY that has undesirable intentions rather than the whole company as the "big corporations are just ever so evil!" trope is more than worn out now.
Yeah, I don't want to whole focus to be "teh company is evilz!" That being said, I would absolutely love to get a more in-depth view of WY or any other company and see just how they operate in this world.
That being said, I don't want to see the company in a positive light either. By their very nature, mega corporations on this universe seem to be absolutely indifferent to the general population. We're dollar signs, investments. Protect us, build us homes (on better worlds), but at the end of the day it's all about that tax writeoff and beating out the competition.
If the concept of the artificial habitat and decommissioned Derelict ship is anything to go by, we might actually be getting to see that.
Quote from: irn on Feb 19, 2015, 01:17:03 PMThe WY badness should remain as the background story rather than being a main push in the plot. Also I think it should be implied that it's a group within WY that has undesirable intentions rather than the whole company as the "big corporations are just ever so evil!" trope is more than worn out now.
Reminds me of the first
RoboCop, where the old man running OCP wasn't necessarily evil, he's just morally grey. It was a couple of the guys under him who were the villains.
Of course in the sequel they made him a fascist, but it was nice while it lasted.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
All of my THIS.
RoboCop is very OTT in its portrayal of just about everything, though. The whole film is heavy satire. Much like some of Blomkamp's work, actually.
The Alien films are very much representative of certain things going on in the real world, but for the most part they tend to deal with metaphor in a more subtle, realistic way.
Not that one option is better than the other. Just acknowledging the difference and which style feels more appropriate in this series.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 01:26:04 PM
Of course in the sequel they made him a fascist, but it was nice while it lasted.
Yeah, but it also gave us one of the best lines in
motion picture history."This may not look good for OCP Johnson... Scramble the best spin team we have!" :laugh:
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
I prefer them to operate in the grey area, like they did in the first three films, or the first two especially.
I 100% agree with this completely although I would prefer them to be grey in video games as well, like in
Spoiler
Alien Isolation, where it is just apollo's bad interpretation of the morally neutral orders that causes mayham, Nina Taylor and Samuels both work for the company and aid Ripley.
. I really am getting sick and tired of the whole evil company angle, its just too silly. Alien was supposed to be set in a gritty, realistic universe, not a place for card-carrying villians.
Quote
Reminds me of the first RoboCop, where the old man running OCP wasn't necessarily evil, he's just morally grey. It was a couple of the guys under him who were the villains.
Of course in the sequel they made him a fascist, but it was nice while it lasted.
I actually found him to be a lighter shade of morally grey, His intentions for delta city was seemingly to help the city and get rid of crime, he looked shocked and pissed when he found out one of his employees was murdered by Dick and rather than treat Robocop as a machine, he simply said "nice shooting son, what's your name?" treating him as a person rather than product.
Of course the sequel came along (which Peter weller hated) and turned them all evil.
I have to admit, as much as I don't want it in the films, I do quite enjoy the evil company thing in the AVP games. There is something undeniably fun about how psychotically counter-productive it is. "I know, let's 'promote' colonists to Xenomorph test subjects! Their family probably won't ask any questions..."
I can agree there is some fun and unintentional humor due to the stupidity of it but I kinda of like the games to be taken as seriously as the films and thus given the same dark, gritty and realistic universe like in Isolation, not the "campy super villian" angle. Mind you I would not mind it if they portrayed W-Y neutrally or even in a good light but showed one or two members of the board being corrupt and its them who is behind the unethical actions, not the company or the whole bio-weapons divison, just corrupt board memberd acting alone by using their own wealth to hire mercenaries and using android copies of bishop to trick everyone, even the company into follow orders.
But even then, its still the same plot over and over, someone wants the alien, alien can't be controlled, alien kills people......women inherit the earth. :laugh:
- Half-Aliens sequel, half-standalone story.
- Ripley and Hicks are alive with no explanation, they're simply alive, Hicks scarred, probably Newt could be around, they're investigating the xenos.
- As for he continuity, I'd like it to remain kind of ambiguous, just like X-Men Days of Future which is a movie you can actually start watching no matter if you only saw the first two X-Men movies (Xavier is alive, Magneto is there, Wolverine has his adamtium claws and everything), you don't even have to have watched X-Men First Class.
- No mentions of Alien 3 or Resurrection, kind of mentions of Aliens or at least leave it for granted (because of Hicks's scars and stuff).
- In other words, simply a sort of reboot/alternate universe, just no worries about continuity as long as Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop are there alive and well.
- Just sit down and enjoy the freaking movie.
- Haters gonna hate.
Oh, and I'd also like to see finally executed on big screen the idea of the xenos taking over Earth (AVPR doesn't count).
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 19, 2015, 12:50:49 PMI'd personally like it to leave all that behind. I want a character study of Ripley 8 and her connection to the Aliens.
IMO, half-alien Ripley 8 was a bad idea, I can compare her to psychic Alice from Resident Evil, simply a stupid idea made to make her more of an action heroine and inject more action to a braindead sequel.
You know, I'm a huge Alien Resurrection lover, I think it's a terrific ride, but it just shouldn't have been an official canonic sequel, it felt much more like a comic book.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 19, 2015, 12:50:49 PM
I'd personally like it to leave all that behind. I want a character study of Ripley 8 and her connection to the Aliens.
I think it could kind of be very interesting. Her disconnection from the human race - which has become corrupt - the androids that seem more humane - and even her age. For instance - here's this character that has had to adapt or maybe has been subjected to all kinds of testing or even has been living in exhile and for years with the memory of these aliens in her blood. Now there's movement within the comapny and these Engineers... What does that do to her? She must be compelled to know the rest right? And what does the rest mean to her? What is she to the Engineers.
If A:R was about her loyalties crossing, this would be more about an orphan seeking out her biological heritage. Having been adapted to a human culture she was an alien too and raised within it. This all lends itself to Blomkamp's themes...
Quote from: CainsSon on Feb 19, 2015, 05:24:39 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Feb 19, 2015, 12:50:49 PM
I'd personally like it to leave all that behind. I want a character study of Ripley 8 and her connection to the Aliens.
I think it could kind of be very interesting. Her disconnection from the human race - which has become corrupt - the androids that seem more humane - and even her age. For instance - here's this character that has had to adapt or maybe has been subjected to all kinds of testing or even has been living in exhile and for years with the memory of these aliens in her blood. Now there's movement within the comapny and these Engineers... What does that do to her? She must be compelled to know the rest right? And what does the rest mean to her? What is she to the Engineers.
If A:R was about her loyalties crossing, this would be more about an orphan seeking out her biological heritage. Having been adapted to a human culture she was an alien too and raised within it. This all lends itself to Blomkamp's themes...
That would be similar to what happens to the character played by Sharlto Copley in District 9
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 05:15:43 PM
- Just sit down and enjoy the freaking movie.
- Haters gonna hate.
See, I like a number of your ideas, but... This attitude always bothers me. With just about any movie that has divided opinions there are always people saying these two things, and it pisses me off. With the exception of a few very masochistic critic types, nobody goes into a movie not to "sit down and freaking enjoy it."
If the movie ends up suffering the same problems at Prometheus, or God forbid AVP:R/Resurrection... Oi vei. There will be plenty of reason to "hate" this film in those instances for quite a number of people. For one I think it'll signal that the final nail has been driven once and for all for ALIEN, and i'd hate for the franchise to end on that note, as it effectively did for nearly two decades almost now.
The fact is, the decision bringing back Ripley and Hicks would be as polarizing as the decision of not bringing them back. There will be haters from one side or another, so just ignore that and move on.
Hence why I keep suggesting they should go somewhere new.
But no, it's gotta have Ripley. Because.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 07:19:36 PM
The fact is, the decision bringing back Ripley and Hicks would be as polarizing as the decisionof not bringing them back. There will be haters from one side or another, so just ignore that and move on.
That is true, personally I would like both to bring them back and to leave them dead depending on how its done, Alien 3 as touchy of a subject it is, finished their story and I am fine with that but like most Aliens fans, I was annoyed by how abrupt it was and I would have liked to see Hicks as the new protagonist, sure I would like to see Ripley again too but the franchise shouldn't have to depend on her to continue, as someone here recently said, she was a survivor by chance, her constant involvement would be silly (unless given a really good reason) and don't get me started on number 8. I hate the hybrid storyline, just way too overboard.
We should wait and see, no enough info right now to judge the film, and it shouldn't be judged until it is released.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Hence why I keep suggesting they should go somewhere new.
But no, it's gotta have Ripley. Because.
If you want something new, then have Prometheus or something. I'm not against something new, but if they still can pull off the Ripley for the last time, I'd love that. There can be Ripley as well as some new characters and new things. We can have both!
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 07:37:09 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Hence why I keep suggesting they should go somewhere new.
But no, it's gotta have Ripley. Because.
If you want something new, then have Prometheus or something. I'm not against something new, but if they still can pull off the Ripley for the last time, I'd love that. There can be Ripley as well as some new characters and new things. We can have both!
I think some people want to see a standalone film as Predators: new characters, new world, new story. That is, without any relation to the previous films but with xenomorphs (Prometheus is more like a spin off).
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 07:37:09 PM
If you want something new, then have Prometheus or something.
No, thanks.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 07:37:09 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 07:31:12 PM
Hence why I keep suggesting they should go somewhere new.
But no, it's gotta have Ripley. Because.
If you want something new, then have Prometheus or something. I'm not against something new, but if they still can pull off the Ripley for the last time, I'd love that. There can be Ripley as well as some new characters and new things. We can have both!
But this is the problem, why can't Ripley be left alone? why does an Alien film have to have Ripley in it to be good or to exist at all?
It doesn't. It would just be shameless fanservice, one that breaks continuity, if you mean Ripley 8 then fair enough but she is not Ripley in the least (except partial dna) just has some of the same memories. So the character doesn't really have the same impact.
To be honest I am divided between the two options, retcon or sequel, each has their own pros and cons.
Shameless fan service is bringing retconning alien 3 and resurrection.
a new Aliens story without hicks and ripley is possible, im tired of fox shoving ripley this and ripley that down our throats, everything has to be connected to ripley or have ripley
Ripley is a bad ass, hicks was a bad ass. But ripleys over used and hicks is dead.
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 19, 2015, 08:06:53 PM
and hicks is dead.
Not anymore. Even without this movie. Not anymore.
you make it hard to pretend CM didnt happen, wither way by resurrection Hicks is dead.
http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/411255-neill-blomkamp-is-officially-taking-on-an-alien-sequel#/slide/1 (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/411255-neill-blomkamp-is-officially-taking-on-an-alien-sequel#/slide/1)
"20th Century Fox has since confirmed the news, clarifying that this is, indeed, a sequel to the original Alien franchise and not the Prometheus sequel currently set for release March 4, 2016."
Looks like ripley 8 is coming back. But i highly doubt hicks will
- No Hicks
- No Newt
- 100% dead Ripley
- Set between ALIEN 3 and ALIEN R.
- New story
- New characters
- WY back
we already know what general direction the story will take now
Somebody needs to make another thread and put a poll in it asking what the hell do people want. Do we want to see rips back, rips and hick? An entirely new movie? You know, some options around those lines. I'm curious to see the results.
Just to repeat myself, the only way I see this working with Ripley is if they are going to make a sequel to A|R. Hicks is toast.
Quote from: Nazrel on Feb 19, 2015, 08:17:08 PM
you make it hard to pretend CM didnt happen, wither way by resurrection Hicks is dead.
http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/411255-neill-blomkamp-is-officially-taking-on-an-alien-sequel#/slide/1 (http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/411255-neill-blomkamp-is-officially-taking-on-an-alien-sequel#/slide/1)
"20th Century Fox has since confirmed the news, clarifying that this is, indeed, a sequel to the original Alien franchise and not the Prometheus sequel currently set for release March 4, 2016."
Looks like ripley 8 is coming back. But i highly doubt hicks will
There is nothing in what you quote that indicates it will have anything to do with Ripley 8.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 19, 2015, 05:15:43 PM
- Half-Aliens sequel, half-standalone story.
- Ripley and Hicks are alive with no explanation, they're simply alive, Hicks scarred, probably Newt could be around, they're investigating the xenos.
- As for he continuity, I'd like it to remain kind of ambiguous, just like X-Men Days of Future which is a movie you can actually start watching no matter if you only saw the first two X-Men movies (Xavier is alive, Magneto is there, Wolverine has his adamtium claws and everything), you don't even have to have watched X-Men First Class.
- No mentions of Alien 3 or Resurrection, kind of mentions of Aliens or at least leave it for granted (because of Hicks's scars and stuff).
- In other words, simply a sort of reboot/alternate universe, just no worries about continuity as long as Ripley, Hicks, Newt and Bishop are there alive and well.
- Just sit down and enjoy the freaking movie.
- Haters gonna hate.
This. People underestimate the power of just ignoring the bad stuff. Though Newt will not be in it, but I could foresee the others being in it. My assumption is that the cryogen finally got to Earth and we essentially get to have an intro that will be similar to the one in Aliens.
Well considering almost EVERYTHING has to have ripley in it(in some way shape or form), weaver wants to finish ripley 8s story, it will probably have ripley in it, especially since niel just did a movie with her, im sure she would be more than happy provided the script isnt crap
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
I prefer them to operate in the grey area, like they did in the first three films, or the first two especially.
To bad the evil megalomaniac company has been part of this story since the start.
In fact, i want the company to step up. The "secret background plan" story that drives the plot of these movies needs to stop. It's time to show the company putting something into action.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Feb 19, 2015, 08:54:23 PM
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Feb 19, 2015, 10:57:33 AM
The evil megalomaniac company trope should be left to video games.
I prefer them to operate in the grey area, like they did in the first three films, or the first two especially.
To bad the evil megalomaniac company has been part of this story since the start.
In fact, i want the company to step up. The "secret background plan" story that drives the plot of these movies needs to stop. It's time to show the company putting something into action.
Not really, they only became blatently evil in either alien 3, which is up to interpretation (not anymore with A:CM) and Alien Resurrection where they are bunch of sickos. The company needs to be morally grey, not a bunch silly supervillians "oh muwhaha, once we have Xenomorphs, we can take over the galaxy" a paraphrase from an AVP game, 2010 one actually. Its utterly stupid, I can't believe what the Alien/AVP franchise has come to, they need to drop that angle fast. Isolation at least made the Company neutral again.
Also Sea of Sorrows, set after resurrection or before, I can't remember,
Spoiler
has the company actually doing something, they get mercenaries to recover the Xenomorphs and they succeed immensely, they get a Drone, and two facehugged hosts, one has a Queen embryo implant in her.
I dont remember that in sea
Yeah,
Spoiler
Andrea Rollings coerces Alan Decker into helping the mercenaries get a Xenomorph, they succeeded, they get one adult Alien and two facehugged victims who were a part of mercenary team, the book ends with Andrea putting down in her notes that the female host's facehugger is larger with webbing and the embryo it implanted is larger than the one in the other host.
So that was a victory for the company.
Naturally, WY is purported to be neutrally grey, but look at their track record!
A1 - Ash and the company knew the entire time what they were up against, and the company activated "Zero f**ks" Mode about the crew for the sake of bringing it back alive. Long live crew expendable protocols!
A2 - The company (Technically Van Luen and Co.)denies complete knowledge of the events of A1, suggesting they're either exploiting Rip's hypersleep or are just fish on a bigger executive chain. Regardless, Burke essentially kills an entire colony to learn what he already knew for the chance to enhance WY's Bioweapon division, and he died because his greed and curiosity.
A3 - The company's sick of Ripley's shit & basically says "Hey! we want your internal hugsy buddy, rip! can we have it now?". They get THAT desperate, their digging for molten DNA samples out of a frigging furnace! Dedication or Desperation?
A:R - WY's research passed on to space chucky's (Brad Dourif) research team that have progressed further than WY ever hoped to achieve, eventually showing us that Darwin was one smart cookie, and WY couldn't of dropped out as a better time. Life Expectancy increases tenfold.
As you can see, WY just don't care what happens; as long as they get the moolah found somewhere in the xeno's sticky acidic filled veins, they'd gladly sacrifice Elvis to quadruple the profits through genetic manipulation. Think of it as Jurassic World's genetic hybrid; they didn't realise they would f**k up so bad without the information. WY have TONS of information and a dead Colonial squad; Pretty sure that's reason AND EVIDENCE enough to leave everything as it is.
They have the money. They have the technology. They have the power. GIVE US THE GODDAMN GORILLA ALIEN!
This is going to be tricky in any regard. Weyland Yutani needs to be brought back. Alien Resurrection made a mess of things. I'm so curious how Blomkamp will write this new story, and involve Hicks, if his concept designs are accurate.
I have so many questions. As much as I dislike Resurrection, don't retcon it, keep it, but distance the film from the events.
Quote from: RabidNinja on Feb 20, 2015, 12:57:03 AM
A2 - The company (Technically Van Luen and Co.)denies complete knowledge of the events of A1, suggesting they're either exploiting Rip's hypersleep or are just fish on a bigger executive chain. Regardless, Burke essentially kills an entire colony to learn what he already knew for the chance to enhance WY's Bioweapon division, and he died because his greed and curiosity.
Van Lewen isn't part of the company. Most of that board was ICC people. I very much doubt Burke's intention was to get everyone killed. More likely he was hoping they would unknowingly secure a specimen for him.
Quote from: RabidNinja on Feb 20, 2015, 12:57:03 AM
A:R - WY's research passed on to space chucky's (Brad Dourif) research team that have progressed further than WY ever hoped to achieve, eventually showing us that Darwin was one smart cookie, and WY couldn't of dropped out as a better time. Life Expectancy increases tenfold.
It was bought when WY folded. It wasn't 'passed off' by people smoking in a dark room.
I think it's rather clear from just the films that WY is in fact a pretty terrible company as far as morality goes. Just the fact that a crew expendable order existed made it a pretty clear cut case. We can argue a lot of little details all we want, but the movies pretty much portray WY as bad guys.
Sounds fairly standard corporate procedure.
A guy involved in the construction of Dubai airport showed me around the place whilst it was being built. Told me that if any worker was still working in the foundations when they poured the cement in, they didn't bother to stop work to save them, just paid compensation to the family because that was cheaper than holding up the work. Morals go out of the window when big corporations/money come into it..
I'm getting kinda sick of literally EVERY WY suit being an irredeemable assclowns. I hope they do what one of the comics was (I believe it was Genocide) and introduce a company exec who is more or less a decent person and can finally be dissuaded from perusing the Xeno at all costs.
Quote from: razeak on Feb 20, 2015, 02:50:31 AM
I think it's rather clear from just the films that WY is in fact a pretty terrible company as far as morality goes. Just the fact that a crew expendable order existed made it a pretty clear cut case. We can argue a lot of little details all we want, but the movies pretty much portray WY as bad guys.
Yeah it's pretty clear that all their care is about getting what they need and that's it, screw everything else.
But since we usually see the people they give the orders to carry out the craziness, apparently that doesnt make them that evil? If you hire folks that go that out there for the job i think it's clear on what level they function.
Ideas... hmm lets continue from A|R, some time has passed and Rip08 continued to evolve into a more complete hybrid. Like she now has one of those little mouths and takes fellow aliens out with it.
Quote from: DaddyYautja on Feb 20, 2015, 04:40:58 AMBut since we usually see the people they give the orders to carry out the craziness, apparently that doesnt make them that evil? If you hire folks that go that out there for the job i think it's clear on what level they function.
Who says anyone was ordered to do anything in the first two films? The Nostromo fiasco could easily have been one guy acting on his own initiative, and I've long believed that Burke was doing exactly the same thing - acting alone to impress his bosses and further himself both financially and professionally.
Only in
Alien 3 does it seem there's something more substantial going on. And of course by the time you get to
ACM, the company are suddenly a bunch of genocidal maniacs. But I much prefer the earlier, less definitively evil portrayal.
Would be cool if they brought back a young Peter Weyland. Basically Weyland's consciousness downloaded into an android body (young Guy Pearce). You could say it was technology that hadn't been cracked before the events of Prometheus or that he was obsessed with living life in his own original biological body hence why he went in search of "God".
If Alien 3 is still relevant, perhaps there could be some story potential in the character of Bishop II.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2015, 03:07:53 AM
If Alien 3 is still relevant, perhaps there could be some story potential in the character of Bishop II.
I think it's a little too late -and ultimately, pointless- trying to clear things like that...
David could be in this as well if he wanted.
He should just get all the good characters into one film basically. Oh yeah and have loads of new amazing ones.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 22, 2015, 03:21:51 AM
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2015, 03:07:53 AM
If Alien 3 is still relevant, perhaps there could be some story potential in the character of Bishop II.
I think it's a little too late -and ultimately, pointless- trying to clear things like that...
Don't see what'd need to be cleared. Just that, if they do wind up using
Alien 3 and tell a story with WY, he might be relevant.
But then, seeing him get his hands on an Alien would totally undermine Ripley's sacrifice.
I don't know. Just thinking out loud again. Probably going to keep doing that until official info comes out.
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2015, 03:27:51 AMDon't see what'd need to be cleared. Just that, if they do wind up using Alien 3 and tell a story with WY, he might be relevant.
If he's a human or an android, to begin with...
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2015, 03:27:51 AMBut then, seeing him get his hands on an Alien would totally undermine Ripley's sacrifice.
Ripley's sacrifice was stupid. One cannot simply get rid of the xeno. The species more than surely is spread across all the galaxy. Her sacrifice was of little use for anyone.
He's human.
Yeah, the film was pretty clear about it. Red blood, screaming in pain, "I'm not a droid!"
So, he is... an employee of the WY. Other than being played by Henriksen, what's interesting about him?
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Feb 22, 2015, 05:00:17 AM
Yeah, the film was pretty clear about it. Red blood, screaming in pain, "I'm not a droid!"
Only in the Assembly Cut and Workprint cuts.. Which according to Xenopedia are considered non-canon.
Not trying to stir things up here, mind you.
He still bleeds red, his voice doesn't become garbled.
The series had set up its short-hand for showing someone to be an android, and white blood and a distorted voice are it. Bishop II had neither, he's a friggin' human.
Quote from: SiL on Feb 22, 2015, 05:52:54 AM
He still bleeds red, his voice doesn't become garbled.
The series had set up its short-hand for showing someone to be an android, and white blood and a distorted voice are it. Bishop II had neither, he's a friggin' human.
Some writers have explained it: Advanced droid. And one that probably thinks he's not a droid, since he keeps on repeating he isn't one...
Advanced droid is fine and all, until you get to the next film and see that 200 years later even more advanced droids still have white blood.
Well I ain't getting in this debate. >:(
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 22, 2015, 05:58:14 AM
Some writers have explained it: Advanced droid. And one that probably thinks he's not a droid, since he keeps on repeating he isn't one...
Or much simpler: He isn't one.
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 22, 2015, 05:47:33 AM
Only in the Assembly Cut and Workprint cuts.. Which according to Xenopedia are considered non-canon.
Not trying to stir things up here, mind you.
And the script, and according to the producers, and Fincher.
Quote from: OpenMaw on Feb 22, 2015, 07:44:32 AM
And the script, and according to the producers, and Fincher.
I am aware of the script, but this is the first time I've heard the producers and Fincher saying such. I am inclined to believe though..
But from my experience on this forum, not many people take the Word of God trope into accountability.
And that's totally their prerogative to do so. I'm just adding to the point that, creative intent was that this guy was a human being.
Quote from: Magegg on Feb 22, 2015, 04:33:32 AMIf he's a human or an android, to begin with...
Oh God, not this again.
Let's make a new thread and discuss that!
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 22, 2015, 12:48:32 PM
Let's make a new thread and discuss that!
Oh, no you won't.
BTW: new movie should totally have Space Jockeys as alien creatures and not as Engineers. Most probably it won't but hey, maybe Blomkamp is reading this. If so, please Mr. Blomkamp -- you know the
right way to portray them Space Jockeys.
I like my Jockeys with a side of Spaghetti.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 22, 2015, 08:20:28 PM
Quote from: Kelgaard on Feb 22, 2015, 12:48:32 PM
Let's make a new thread and discuss that!
Oh, no you won't.
BTW: new movie should totally have Space Jockeys as alien creatures and not as Engineers. Most probably it won't but hey, maybe Blomkamp is reading this. If so, please Mr. Blomkamp -- you know the right way to portray them Space Jockeys.
Trunk faced is not the right way, IMO. Looks silly.
It's not a trunk. It fuses with the sternum, it does not go about on its own. It's a bony, or cartilagineous bridge between head and sternum. It's far too thin to look like a trunk, too.
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffc03.deviantart.net%2Ffs70%2Fi%2F2010%2F314%2F7%2F7%2Fspace_jockey_ii_by_bloommer-d32jg3r.jpg&hash=97e5e8571e474a2faf3d9ce7ae72643b11d771d2)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_rzdB5a4kLAo%2FTPQr1WBel9I%2FAAAAAAAAW_I%2FZ3hGwVXEHIA%2Fs1600%2Fconcept_SpaceJockeys.jpg&hash=95d142633e0aca5570edc0f9f1e0c374eb34b0bf)
pls
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.c.yimg.jp%2Fres%2Fblog-1d-74%2Fibizafreak1968%2Ffolder%2F869933%2F64%2F28870364%2Fimg_7%3F1363341928&hash=9cbfbf6d8826b0c87b9aca900c2e91f0d5bec64d)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_8GJbAAr1DY8%2FTRI8yAk5FEI%2FAAAAAAAACRg%2FHjwIu6o2JgY%2Fs1600%2F25zmh52.jpeg&hash=783de9b77b51978d288abc690c295189dc440ddc)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdougbot.com%2Fforum%2Fpilot.jpg&hash=9e2360f8ef6ab1eca4477b43e313f115eb6c2a1f)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdougbot.com%2Fforum%2Fpilot001.jpg&hash=92b117b5175bc0a1861b7f8745ae0664c88c88db)
Yesssss
Quote from: RakaiThwei on Feb 22, 2015, 07:46:29 AM
But from my experience on this forum, not many people take the Word of God trope into accountability.
I prefer it over fans outright making things up.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 22, 2015, 08:46:05 PM
It's not a trunk. It fuses with the sternum, it does not go about on its own. It's a bony, or cartilagineous bridge between head and sternum. It's far too thin to look like a trunk, too.
I use trunk for lack of a better word. See that looks nice and creepy but I don't think it would translate well into live action. I still think it would look funny.
All about how it's shot, and how it is utilized. If it walked into frame in full focus having a conversion then yeah, it'd look silly. There are definitely ways to make it work, however.
Quote from: xeno-kaname on Feb 23, 2015, 01:27:14 AMI use trunk for lack of a better word. See that looks nice and creepy but I don't think it would translate well into live action. I still think it would look funny.
Yeah, this is my issue with it too. Although I suspect my judgement is clouded by the comics, where I always thought it looked especially daft.
It's a skeleton, it's going to look different when it's got flesh on it.
Comics didn't have professional film creature designers to work on them. Of course it wouldn't look like what the comics depicted. Barlowe or Tatopoulos (right now) would do a kick-ass Jockey design.
Quote from: Omegazilla on Feb 23, 2015, 02:01:07 PM
It's a skeleton, it's going to look different when it's got flesh on it.
Comics didn't have professional film creature designers to work on them. Of course it wouldn't look like what the comics depicted. Barlowe or Tatopoulos (right now) would do a kick-ass Jockey design.
Some of Giger's other artwork of various humanoid entities would be a good starting point for the texture and look of a space jockey.
I've mentioned this before, and I even asked if anyone knew what I was talking about, but some years ago I ran across a website which told the story of the Jockey ship landing on Acheron, and it had sort of a graphic novel approach to it, telling the story in paragraphs and with Giger-esque still images. I haven't been able to find it since, but the way it depicted the Jockey would be the way I would have gone, personally.
The creepiest thing about the space jockey is that it has parts of its body attached to things that they shouldn't be attached to. It's just wrong the way it has a front spinal column and blends seamlessly with its chair.
Like a living, breathing impossible object (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_object).
Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 24, 2015, 04:39:40 AMLike a living, breathing impossible object (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_object).
That's one of the reasons I don't really like the idea of it being recreated literally as a living creature. It's so out there that I'm not sure it can be done successfully.