Human-xenomorph alliance, is it possible? (see post for context)

Started by Traveler37, Sep 26, 2024, 05:09:24 AM

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Human-xenomorph alliance, is it possible? (see post for context) (Read 2,347 times)

SM

Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 27, 2024, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2024, 09:45:52 PMIn what way?
Me: I said they will think alien, not like a human.
You: In what way?"
Me: "alien"
They're not really though. The only thing "alien" is the reasoning for behaviour we don't understand yet.

'Why did the Alien kill this dude but abduct that dude?'

There's going to be a reason if they were an actual animal that could be studied.

Not simply 'bEcAuSe aLiEn'.

Acid_Reign161

For what it's worth, (from a real world point of view);  Frontiers in Ecology and Evolution published our paper on bioassay complexities in chemosensory research, and we concluded that it's nearly impossible to compare behavioural studies on organisms from different ecosystems, labs and time points... one of the many factors leading to this variability was anthropomorphic assumptions when interpreting data, leading to unconscious bias.

Make of that what you will.

Traveler37

Traveler37

#62
Quote from: SiL on Sep 27, 2024, 10:15:43 PM
Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 27, 2024, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2024, 09:45:52 PMIn what way?
Me: I said they will think alien, not like a human.
You: In what way?"
Me: "alien"
Yes but what does that mean?

You said they'll think alien, but you keep trying to use terrestrial animals to argue a cross species relationship.

Can we use terrestrial animals to compare them to or not?
#1 SM asked a question he already knew the answer to, so I stated the obvious.
#2 A "relationshiop" with a xeno is similar to a relationship with a "man eating" lion which is not the same as a lion who has "never" eaten a man. This distinction is very important.
#3 A relationship between a man and a man-eating lion is extremely unlikely, but possible under the right conditions.
#4 Theoretically, a relationship between a human and a xeno can also be possible under the right conditions.
#5 This does not negate an xeno having thoughts "alien" to how a human thinks.
#6 Expecting a xeno to think like a human is like expecting a lion to think like a human.
#7 Do I need to explain further?
#8 A human-xeno relationship does not equate "humans and xenos working together, Disney-style."


Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2024, 10:17:13 PM
Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 27, 2024, 10:11:54 PM
Quote from: SM on Sep 27, 2024, 09:45:52 PMIn what way?
Me: I said they will think alien, not like a human.
You: In what way?"
Me: "alien"
They're not really though. The only thing "alien" is the reasoning for behaviour we don't understand yet.

'Why did the Alien kill this dude but abduct that dude?'

There's going to be a reason if they were an actual animal that could be studied.

Not simply 'bEcAuSe aLiEn'.
Alien, meaning unlike humans, unlike Earth-originated organisms.

BigDaddyJohn

Alien : I kill, I propagate, I survive.

That's fine by me.

SiL

Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 26, 2024, 02:59:34 PMImagine you're about to have very bad things done to you by some very bad guys. They are all slaughtered by the xenomorph. The xeno is now coming for you, looks beyond you, looks at you, and just stops. Your friend who's dark and psychologically off the deep end strolls in with a sadistic smile. He walks up to the xeno which hugs him while your friend pets it with pride. He smiles at you with dead eyes asking, "So... what do you think?"

Would this really be humanizing?
This turns the Alien into someone's pet guard dog regardless of how many times you say it doesn't. It's the sci fi horror equivalent of Disney movies making horses act like dogs.

Traveler37

Traveler37

#65
Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Sep 28, 2024, 10:43:50 AMAlien : I kill, I propagate, I survive.

That's fine by me.
I expect more. Kill, propagate, repeat: this is essentially a virus. The xenomorph survives until it doesn't, like a virus. I want to see the franchise evolve and not recycle the same plot over and over. Now, my idea doesn't have to be where it goes, but I do think it would be interesting for one sick WTF movie. :laugh:


Quote from: SiL on Sep 28, 2024, 10:50:08 AM
Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 26, 2024, 02:59:34 PMImagine you're about to have very bad things done to you by some very bad guys. They are all slaughtered by the xenomorph. The xeno is now coming for you, looks beyond you, looks at you, and just stops. Your friend who's dark and psychologically off the deep end strolls in with a sadistic smile. He walks up to the xeno which hugs him while your friend pets it with pride. He smiles at you with dead eyes asking, "So... what do you think?"

Would this really be humanizing?
This turns the Alien into someone's pet guard dog regardless of how many times you say it doesn't. It's the sci fi horror equivalent of Disney movies making horses act like dogs.
If you feel the idea is too much "a man and his xeno," how would you work the concept to bring out horror and terror without losing the human-xeno relationship concept? I am genuinely curious.

SiL

Quote from: Traveler37 on Sep 28, 2024, 01:38:30 PMI expect more. Kill, propagate, repeat: this is essentially a virus. The xenomorph survives until it doesn't, like a virus.
Yes, this is sort of the point.

It's a smart virus. But a "virus" nonetheless.

QuoteIf you feel the idea is too much "a man and his xeno," how would you work the concept to bring out horror and terror without losing the human-xeno relationship concept? I am genuinely curious.
I feel I've made it clear I don't think the idea is tenable. I think Alien3 was even pushing it not having the Alien just cocoon Ripley until she burst, instead letting her run around.

The Cruentus

Aliens: Music of the spears played with this a bit. The character Darcy Vance was curious if "Mozart" would feel anything towards her since she studied/fed it from birth etc. The answer was yes and no. It hesistated for a second before resuming its attack on her.

Interestingly in the same book. Ol'Blue, a Xenomorph at Medtech, is regularly used as a tracker for the company. It is fitted with an exoskeleton suit and then it leads a team to whatever its tracking.

What I like about this is that Ol' Blue is not tamed in anyway and its simply allowing itself to be used because the creature is in turn actually using the humans to find a lost member of its hive whilst also getting to destroy traces from another hive (it kills a xeno-zip jukie who was using the jelly from a rival hive)


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