I've already created similair topic about Isolation but it took me a while to dare creating this...
...because it's really tough to come up with answer to question "What's wrong in Alien?". You know. Alien still is just unbeatable masterpiece. And only yesterday small thought appeared in my mind. It's pretty small, not really influence general experience to any degree. But it always make me shaking my head a little in distrust.
So, I'm talking about the scene right after Dallas' death when crew tries to come up with new plan and Lambert wants to use Narcissus to escape. But Ripley says that there's not enough space for them all. And in that moment i think "WTF?" So, you have f**king escape shuttle but it can't take all of the crew? Where's the logic in such case? And i'm sure that Narcissus IS escape shuttle. Firstly, because Nostromo has self- destruction feature and there's no another ways to escape in such case. Secondly, because there's cryotubes in Narcissus so it's supposed for long-distances travel.
That's the problem I have with Alien. Do you?
It is the escape shuttle. The Titanic also didn't have enough life boats. But yeah, it's always been a bit silly.
Meanwhile:
Ash's Head Swap.
Parker's Mysteriously Appearing Safety Pin.
Ripley's Wiggling Collar of Impending Facehuggers Falling From the Ceiling.
The Alien full-body leaving the shuttle.
The Alien full-body bouncing off the back of the shuttle.
The only problems are the head switch with ash, and the shot of the alien outside the narcissus.
Other than that, it's perfection.
They could have a miniature Godzilla tap dance across the table, and it would still be a magnificent experience.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 10, 2013, 10:25:22 PM
I agree. That's why I don't think it was designed to be a lifeboat for the entire crew of its mothership, just the standard crew of the shuttle if it were to be damaged AFTER separation.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 10, 2013, 11:12:32 PM
I'm guessing that the Nostromo probably wasn't designed to be scuttled under such dire circumstances. That is, without two working shuttles and outside of said shuttles' normal operating range.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 10, 2013, 11:44:06 PM
I'm assuming that it wasn't designed to be scuttled several weeks from rescue, but rather a relatively short shuttle-ride away from a safe port.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jun 11, 2013, 12:01:15 AM
I'm talking about within the Sol or some other inhabited system. The Nostromo's detonation sure looked violent and scary, but Ripley couldn't have been very far away from it at the time either. I imagine, under normal circumstances, they'd probably scuttle it a few thousand klicks away from anything or anyone just to be safe, but that's nothing in astronomical terms.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 06:19:37 AM
It is the escape shuttle. The Titanic also didn't have enough life boats. But yeah, it's always been a bit silly.
Meanwhile:
Ash's Head Swap.
Parker's Mysteriously Appearing Safety Pin.
Ripley's Wiggling Collar of Impending Facehuggers Falling From the Ceiling.
The Alien full-body leaving the shuttle.
The Alien full-body bouncing off the back of the shuttle.
Does the script call the Narcissus an escape shuttle? I think the USCM Tech Manual describes it as a short range shuttle craft, not necessarily a dedicated escape vehicle.
That said, the Nostromo did have a second shuttle, although it was inoperable at the time.
Definitely agree on Ash's head-swap, it's super-janky and I'm surprised the "director's cut" didn't fix it - it feels like the sort of thing that could be fixed just by trimming a few frames off of the middle of the transition.
I'm willing to forgive the Alien bouncing off the back of the shuttle, mostly because I think it's really funny. :P
The facehugger supplying Kane with Oxygen in a zero oxygen atmosphere.
Does that mean it actually produces oxygen for him? a completely alien species? how convenient.
Quote
Does the script call the Narcissus an escape shuttle? I think the USCM Tech Manual describes it as a short range shuttle craft, not necessarily a dedicated escape vehicle.
I mean, what else would it be with cryotubes? That doesn't say short range.
In O'Bannon's script their plan is to put the Alien in the shuttle and blow the shuttle up, rather than the ship - then when the Alien looks the remaining crew Robbie throws the explosives out of the shuttle to use it to escape.
As I indicated before, I think the cryotubes are in the shuttle to keep the crew alive in case something prevents them from returning to their mothership for a prolonged duration.
Which makes them lifeboats.
Lifeboats for the standard crew complement of the shuttle, not the mothership. That doesn't mean it's not primarily a shuttlecraft though.
I believe it's primarily a shuttle that can double as a lifeboat.
There's no automated evac systems like on the Sulaco.
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
I believe it's primarily a shuttle that can double as a lifeboat.
Stop being reasonable, this is the internet!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 13, 2019, 09:43:09 AM
Lifeboats for the standard crew complement of the shuttle, not the mothership. That doesn't mean it's not primarily a shuttlecraft though.
Exactly. The cryotubes could be used if, for some reason, the shuttle couldn't return to the Nostromo for a long period of time, not specifically because they had to abandon the Nostromo.
For what it's worth, I pulled up the Giler/Hill script online and did a Ctrl+F; "shuttle" comes up 14 times, "escape" comes up once. Make of that what you will.
Quote
INT. NARCISSUS
The shockwave hits the shuttle craft.
Jolting and rattling everything within.
Then all is quiet.
Ripley unhooks herself from her straps.
Rises, and goes to the back of the escape craft.
Stares out through the porthole.
Face bathed in orange light.
Interestingly, the script has Ripley using the Narcissus to literally accelerate away from the Nostromo to escape the blast radius, rather than hitting the brakes and letting the Nostromo fly away from her before exploding as she does in the movie.
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
I believe it's primarily a shuttle that can double as a lifeboat.
Also, this. :P
So it's basically a tender on a yacht.
I think the Ash torso (straddling Parker) is as bad as the fake head cut.
Yup.
Ooh, the camera bumping the consoles in the beginning on the bridge.
How did Ash get into the computer annex without Ripley hearing?
Ash's fake head and torso.
Brett and Parker's mirrored reflections.
Clearly seeing the end of the Space Jockey set.
The Alien bouncing around the outside of the Narcissus.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 13, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Ash's fake head and torso.
Brett and Parker's mirrored reflections.
Clearly seeing the end of the Space Jockey set.
The Alien bouncing around the outside of the Narcissus.
The box behind the egg when Kane inspects them.
The man behind the wall when Ripley's running through the ship at the end.
The lack of stars in the area of the frame where the Nostromo passes through in the TC
The placement of the egg morph scene in the DC
The removal of the "What are my chances?" scene in the DC
Shit, there are so many flaws in
Alien.
It's still my favourite film of all time, though.
Every movie is loaded with stuff like this, IMDb has an entire trivia sub-section about goofs and mistakes for every movie.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 13, 2019, 12:47:17 PM
Every movie is loaded with stuff like this, IMDb has an entire trivia sub-section about goofs and mistakes for every movie.
IMDb?
Young'in, I draw most of mine from memories of motherf**king
nitpickers.com, which is unfortunately now defunct (and most of the nitpicks now distributed amongst trivia/errors on IMDb).
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 13, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Ash's fake head and torso.
Brett and Parker's mirrored reflections.
Clearly seeing the end of the Space Jockey set.
The Alien bouncing around the outside of the Narcissus.
Other than Ash, the only faults that bother me are with Kane's son. The dope on the rope outside Narcissus. Falling from his hiding spot on the shuttle, and when the Alien stretches his arms wide at Dallas, which reminds me of a Patrick Swayze moment before he swoops up Jennifer Grey in Dirty Dancing.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/jgKzLAaXcxHDa/giphy.gif)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCchCxw6.gif&hash=92e2eb1f288e750ffd229ee5135cc7dbf2383ea8)
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 10:26:12 AM
I think the Ash torso (straddling Parker) is as bad as the fake head cut.
Was just coming here to type that!
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
(https://i.imgur.com/62rHYvF.gif)
Just needed to be cut a few frames earlier. My opinion, most of Alien's issues are with the editing.
Quote from: Vertigo on Apr 13, 2019, 02:45:44 PM
Just needed to be cut a few frames earlier. My opinion, most of Alien's issues are with the editing.
Good point! Or rapid cut to a closeup of its face swarming / charging the camera. But agreed. :)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
https://i.imgur.com/62rHYvF.gif
It's an old school jump scare, but it's still scary as can be if you just take it for what it's supposed to be.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
https://i.imgur.com/62rHYvF.gif
It's an old school jump scare, but it's still scary as can be if you just take it for what it's supposed to be.
It never was to me, based on the Alien's jazz hands. :)
It's honestly out of my control, but hey, I still love the movie regardless.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 04:06:01 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
https://i.imgur.com/62rHYvF.gif
It's an old school jump scare, but it's still scary as can be if you just take it for what it's supposed to be.
It never was to me, based on the Alien's jazz hands. :)
It's honestly out of my control, but hey, I still love the movie regardless.
Could it be the unnatural wiggle of the fingers, as the hands splay outwards, that bothers you?
I always find myself drawn to the movement even though the shot is very brief.
Quote
Ooh, the camera bumping the consoles in the beginning on the bridge.
When's that?
Also when the camera guy hits those hanging decorations during the Ash meltdown. It's like the camera hits them and the noise attracts ash's attention. It's like a fourth wall break.
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 09:51:08 PM
Quote
Ooh, the camera bumping the consoles in the beginning on the bridge.
When's that?
Right at the beginning, on the ship's bridge (with the rustling papers).
How does it bump the console? The camera tracks past as a chair twists on its stand which isn't anywhere near the camera.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 09:54:45 PM
Also when the camera guy hits those hanging decorations during the Ash meltdown. It's like the camera hits them and the noise attracts ash's attention. It's like a fourth wall break.
My favourite "fourth wall break" is a brief shot of Sigourney Weaver looking right at the camera, during the
Nostromo take-off scene.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:53 PM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 09:54:45 PM
Also when the camera guy hits those hanging decorations during the Ash meltdown. It's like the camera hits them and the noise attracts ash's attention. It's like a fourth wall break.
My favourite "fourth wall break" is a brief shot of Sigourney Weaver looking right at the camera, during the Nostromo take-off scene.
I'd forgotten about that one. :laugh:
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:21 PM
How does it bump the console? The pan tracks past as a chair twists on its stand which isn't anywhere near the camera.
Don't know. Ask your buddy, SiL.
I thought the chair twisting round was because the ship's master computer was preparing to awaken the crew by pumping air into the ship.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 10:09:33 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:21 PM
How does it bump the console? The pan tracks past as a chair twists on its stand which isn't anywhere near the camera.
Don't know. Ask your buddy, SiL.
I thought the chair twisting round was because the ship's master computer was preparing to awaken the crew by pumping air into the ship.
I believe it does bump one.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 10:13:44 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 10:09:33 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:21 PM
How does it bump the console? The pan tracks past as a chair twists on its stand which isn't anywhere near the camera.
Don't know. Ask your buddy, SiL.
I thought the chair twisting round was because the ship's master computer was preparing to awaken the crew by pumping air into the ship.
I believe it does bump one.
Perhaps, but how would you explain the rustling papers?
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Could it be the unnatural wiggle of the fingers, as the hands splay outwards, that bothers you?
I don't think so. It's just less a motion of attack to me and more of a
you-just-witnessed-my-magical-trick! TADA! ;D
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Could it be the unnatural wiggle of the fingers, as the hands splay outwards, that bothers you?
I don't think so. It's just less a motion of attack to me and more of a you-just-witnessed-my-magical-trick! TADA! ;D
Either that or "smell my fingers"
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 10:24:23 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Could it be the unnatural wiggle of the fingers, as the hands splay outwards, that bothers you?
I don't think so. It's just less a motion of attack to me and more of a you-just-witnessed-my-magical-trick! TADA! ;D
Either that or "smell my fingers"
Or.... that..... :laugh:
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
Holy shit dude, I was clearly being jovial. Stop acting like I'm attacking you every time I have the nerve to respond to you, the victim complex is getting tiresome.
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 09:51:08 PM
Quote
Ooh, the camera bumping the consoles in the beginning on the bridge.
When's that?
After the paper rustle you hear the sound again but without the chair rocking, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:23:22 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 09:46:57 PM
Could it be the unnatural wiggle of the fingers, as the hands splay outwards, that bothers you?
I don't think so. It's just less a motion of attack to me and more of a you-just-witnessed-my-magical-trick! TADA! ;D
The scene is
more terrifying in the comic book adaptation.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 13, 2019, 10:09:33 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 13, 2019, 10:04:21 PM
How does it bump the console? The pan tracks past as a chair twists on its stand which isn't anywhere near the camera.
Don't know. Ask your buddy, SiL.
I thought the chair twisting round was because the ship's master computer was preparing to awaken the crew by pumping air into the ship.
I did.
And exactly.
Quote
After the paper rustle you hear the sound again but without the chair rocking, but I could be wrong.
The sound is the chair rocking.
If the chair's a-rockin' I guess the camera didn't come a-knockin'.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 10:28:12 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 02:04:29 PM
That shot is literally one second long, give it some slack :P
Yay for you trying to control my opinion?
Sorry if it bothers you, but it has always bothered me, regardless the duration.
Holy shit dude, I was clearly being jovial. Stop acting like I'm attacking you every time I have the nerve to respond to you, the victim complex is getting tiresome.
Clearly.. being... jovial?
Alrighty then!!!Wait. You're the jovial one? :laugh:
SM is the jovial one.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:43:41 PM
Clearly.. being... jovial?
Alrighty then!!!
Wait. You're the jovial one? :laugh:
Yes,
most people would've read the " :P" as meaning you shouldn't take it as some kind of attack or attempt to "control an opinion", but rather friendly banter :)
I assure you the vendetta you've convinced yourself I hold against you is not real. You can stop trying to shitstir any time now.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:43:41 PM
Clearly.. being... jovial?
Alrighty then!!!
Wait. You're the jovial one? :laugh:
Yes, most people would've read the " :P" as meaning you shouldn't take it as some kind of attack or attempt to "control an opinion", but rather friendly banter :)
I assure you the vendetta you've convinced yourself I hold against you is not real. You can stop trying to shitstir any time now.
Boy, I remember the days when voodoo and me used to not understand each other correctly.
We still don't understand each other, sometimes, but I at least know not to take the majority of what Voodoo says seriously.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 11:07:45 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 10:43:41 PM
Clearly.. being... jovial?
Alrighty then!!!
Wait. You're the jovial one? :laugh:
Yes, most people would've read the " :P" as meaning you shouldn't take it as some kind of attack or attempt to "control an opinion", but rather friendly banter :)
Actually perhaps your thinking of a wink, as in just kidding...? ;)
QuoteI assure you the vendetta you've convinced yourself I hold against you is not real. You can stop trying to shitstir any time now.
Vendetta??
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/12410797/Confused_Christian_Bale.0.gif)
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Apr 13, 2019, 11:19:31 PM
We still don't understand each other, sometimes, but I at least know not to take the majority of what Voodoo says seriously.
(https://ramblingsofacinephile.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/hanslanda-bingo.gif?w=552&h=192)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 11:19:47 PM
Actually perhaps your thinking of a wink, as in just kidding...? ;)
The tongue out emoji has been used to denote being lighthearted and facetious for years.
I truly don't understand why you're desperately trying to justify the idea I was trying to "control your opinion" - as I said, your victim complex is getting tiring and I'm not participating.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 11:24:06 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 11:19:47 PM
Actually perhaps your thinking of a wink, as in just kidding...? ;)
The tongue out emoji has been used to denote being lighthearted and facetious for years.
Wait, it does? Then what do the smiley, teethy smiley, laughy and laughy with tongue faces mean?
QuoteI truly don't understand why you're desperately trying to justify the idea I was trying to "control your opinion" - as I said, your victim complex is getting tiring and I'm not participating.
Victim Complex?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/zjQrmdlR9ZCM/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 11:29:03 PM
Wait, it does? Then what do the smiley, teethy smiley, laughy and laughy with tongue faces mean?
Depends on the context.
Quote
Victim Complex?
https://media.giphy.com/media/zjQrmdlR9ZCM/giphy.gif
Yes, that's where you assume I'm attacking or trying to "control" you despite having no actual reason to do so. See also, this conversation.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 13, 2019, 11:29:03 PM
Wait, it does? Then what do the smiley, teethy smiley, laughy and laughy with tongue faces mean?
Depends on the context.
Quote
Victim Complex?
https://media.giphy.com/media/zjQrmdlR9ZCM/giphy.gif
Yes, that's where you assume I'm attacking or trying to "control" you despite having no actual reason to do so. See also, this conversation.
Take a deep breath. In..... out.... ;D
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 13, 2019, 11:30:34 PM
Quit it, both of you.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/94/6c/45/946c4563e65edb4bf7ca5ec88b9dae81.gif
Friendship is magic, and I enjoy the company of you both.
Agreed! Group hug!
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/LLjD0TtHoZCH6/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cb271d3655a33397314c176)
Again, Quit it, both of you.
Friendship is magic, and I enjoy the company of you both.
Behold, the flaws of alien.
It has turned us against one another.
And You've upset old one.
"Pony disease" is not as bad as the migraine Hicks will develop when he comes in here to break it up.
Wait... did I travel back in time and respond to a post the Old One didn't make yet?
It lived for 4 pages.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Apr 13, 2019, 11:39:22 PM
"Pony disease."
Such a grump.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TfGzHYjMmknh6/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 13, 2019, 11:15:02 PM
Boy, I remember the days when voodoo and me used to not understand each other correctly.
To prevent a victim complex from happening in the futute like here, or before in this thread:
https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=61219.30
SiL and I will agree to include the word (joking). Agreed SiL? *Extends hand*
I am going to hug you all until you feel such overwhelming love for one another, that you'll never fight again.
Well he either is going to symbolically shake my hand, or get pissed off with the "victim complex" irony in the link I provided.
Hey I'll be the first to apologize.
Sorry SiL, and I really hope we do shake hands. :)
It's not a victim complex if the other person is actively teasing you. That you think the two situations are the same really speaks volumes. I didn't say anything rude or personal, whereas you went out of your way to throw shade on me entirely unprovoked :-\
Disingenuously trying to make me look like a hypocrite really doesn't make me want to shake your hand, virtually or otherwise. :( Let's just get back to the topic and move on with our lives.
Oy vey.
You were supposed to be the jovial one!!!
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/015/219/You_Were_The_Chosen_One.jpg)
As dated as the original Alien film's effects are (Ash's head, alien bouncing around outside, etc), nothing really takes you out of the film or ruins the atmosphere.
The composited work in Alien 3 on the other hand...
Parker's Magically Appearing Safety Pin cannot be unseen, however. :D
I don't know what you're talking about and I refuse to ever acknowledge it.
Alien is flawless.
It's right around Ash's Nipple Cripple of Doom.
Curiously, I don't know what you're talking about and I refuse to ever acknowledge it.
Alien is flawless. *Humpf*
The adult Alien's first appearance is almost flawless in execution - apart from one of the steel wires becoming visible briefly as the Alien dangles (slightly out of focus) behind Brett.
A tiny blemish on a (still) powerful moment.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 14, 2019, 02:57:26 AM
Curiously, I don't know what you're talking about and I refuse to ever acknowledge it.
Alien is flawless. *Humpf*
What is? Still, Alien is wonderful, blemishes and all.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 14, 2019, 02:57:26 AM
Curiously, I don't know what you're talking about and I refuse to ever acknowledge it.
Alien is flawless. *Humpf*
A few moments before Ash's Plastic Judo Hands of Imminent Threat.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 14, 2019, 03:01:22 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 14, 2019, 02:57:26 AM
Curiously, I don't know what you're talking about and I refuse to ever acknowledge it.
Alien is flawless. *Humpf*
A few moments before Ash's Plastic Judo Hands of Imminent Threat.
I wish the scene played out like in the comic book adaptation - Ash almost succeeds in throttling the life out of Parker, before the cattle prod shuts him down.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 14, 2019, 02:56:30 AM
It's right around Ash's Nipple Cripple of Doom.
Hey, those nipples fought to keep us all safe from the sex monsters.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 10:16:54 AM
So it's basically a tender on a yacht.
With the deep space equivalent of emergency provisions in the form of two cryotubes, yeah. I find it hard to imagine that the Narcissus even has the ability to travel FTL under its own power.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 10:30:30 AM
How did Ash get into the computer annex without Ripley hearing?
If you listen really closely though, you
can hear the door open. It's subtle, but it's there. Probably reduced in the mix to demonstrate how distracted Ripley is.
The light changes behind her at one point to indicate the door opening too.
He was with her, all the way.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 13, 2019, 10:30:30 AM
How did Ash get into the computer annex without Ripley hearing?
I
think they added the door sound effect into one of the cuts for this.
Quote from: TheSailingRabbit on Apr 13, 2019, 11:39:21 PM
"Pony disease" is not as bad as the migraine Hicks will develop when he comes in here to break it up.
It is really start to get on my nerves right now. I realize the discussion has moved on now but enough of it. It's spread into other threads previously and I'm getting fed-up of it. Enough with whatever this is.
There is a very faint sound that might be the door in the left channel during the 'Nostromo re-routed to new co-ordinates' bit that is almost drowned out by the computer FX.
The robot dance move is one of the things that really does me in when Ash loses his head.
The crew deciding to stick together and then splitting up to get the supplies for the shuttle.
Did they think that the bridge would be safe?
Had been for the rest of the movie.
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 15, 2019, 09:49:36 PM
The crew deciding to stick together and then splitting up to get the supplies for the shuttle.
Did they think that the bridge would be safe?
Up until now (offscreen, who knows?) the creature has confined itself to C-level and the air shafts. After setting the self-destruct, the Alien widens its range to the next deck up - B-level.
I don't know if staying together would've saved them all, or would've resulted in Ripley dying in the attack as well.
But she needed to get Jones, and I doubt Parker would've gone for that at the time if she'd been honest.
He still should've been paying attention to the entrance. He dropped the ball, and it snuck right up on them. You could hear the tracker humming for God's sake.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 15, 2019, 10:03:19 PM
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 15, 2019, 09:49:36 PM
The crew deciding to stick together and then splitting up to get the supplies for the shuttle.
Did they think that the bridge would be safe?
Up until now (offscreen, who knows?) the creature has confined itself to C-level and the air shafts. After setting the self-destruct, the Alien widens its range to the next deck up - B-level.
It appears to prefer the dark.
More to the point above, Ripley says "we have to stick together" - then lets Parker go off on his own to C-Deck.
Quote from: SM on Apr 16, 2019, 12:01:24 AM
More to the point above, Ripley says "we have to stick together" - then lets Parker go off on his own to C-Deck.
Interesting take... I'd always taken that line to mean "we have to stop squabbling and cooperate."
I think it covers both.
It also follows Ripley re-stating the plan to corner the Alien and sealing all the hatches behind them. Which would involve physically 'sticking together'. In fact everyone in that scene goes off on their own. :laugh:
It's a little like in Resurrection when Christie says "I don't trust anybody" before immediately giving Distephano a mag for his gun.
Literally the only flaw of the entire film that I see is the Ash head scene where the camera forgets to cut away before Ripley moved his head so that it would be more realistic. I think the shrunken head is kinda laughable but other than that I think the film is perfect, preferably the 2003 Directors Cut.
Personally I think that Alien is almost perfect but I think pacing would be better if there was some attempt to rework the sequence of self destruct activation->running to the shuttle->meeting with Alien->trying to abort self destruct and failing->running to the shuttle again. I understand the intention but it looks a little wonky to activate self destruct only to try to deactivate a moment later. It would be better of deactivation scene was cut and some other scene of evading the Alien was inserted.
Quote from: bobby brown on Apr 13, 2019, 07:04:10 AM
The facehugger supplying Kane with Oxygen in a zero oxygen atmosphere.
Does that mean it actually produces oxygen for him? a completely alien species? how convenient.
It might not have been zero, it could be trace amount of oxygen though that is probably unlikely due to an apparant lack of plant life. One could argue that it was using the suit's oxygen supply as it did penetrate the helmet.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 21, 2019, 01:12:26 PM
Quote from: bobby brown on Apr 13, 2019, 07:04:10 AM
The facehugger supplying Kane with Oxygen in a zero oxygen atmosphere.
Does that mean it actually produces oxygen for him? a completely alien species? how convenient.
It might not have been zero, it could be trace amount of oxygen though that is probably unlikely due to an apparant lack of plant life. One could argue that it was using the suit's oxygen supply as it did penetrate the helmet.
In the novelization its said there was a little amount of free oxygen in the atmosphere, Ash says the facehugger could have an oxygen extracting ability. Its not producing oxygen, its breaking down oxides that are tied to nitrogen and extracting only the oxygen to give it to Kane.
Quote from: ep40 on Apr 21, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
I think pacing would be better if there was some attempt to rework the sequence of self destruct activation->running to the shuttle->meeting with Alien->trying to abort self destruct and failing->running to the shuttle again. I understand the intention but it looks a little wonky to activate self destruct only to try to deactivate a moment later.
Yeah, you can
figure out why she goes back to deactivate the self-destruct, but it's not made abundantly clear in the film. The split-second glimpse of the alien was originally going to be a lot longer, there's footage of it uncurling in the corridor. In that shot, you can tell that it's standing in the entrance to the Narcissus. I can see why they cut it, because the shot does make the alien look like a man in a suit, but its excision harms the narrative IMO.
Quote from: bobby brown on Apr 13, 2019, 07:04:10 AM
The facehugger supplying Kane with Oxygen in a zero oxygen atmosphere.
Does that mean it actually produces oxygen for him? a completely alien species? how convenient.
It would have to provide it's victim with oxygen anyway (zero oxygen atmosphere or not) since it's covering the mouth and nose.
Besides, it's not exactly "a completely alien species" anymore, is it? ;)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/3f/db/c83fdb585eb5662cf87ee694ccbf2c09.gif)
I feel like the characters could have been a bit fleshed out more before they arrive at the planet. I'm also not quite sure why Ripley didn't want to blow up the ship when Parker did but hey just my two cents. No movie's perfect so I don't think the idea of finding flaws in Alien is heresy or anything.
Quote from: Vertigo on Apr 21, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: ep40 on Apr 21, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
I think pacing would be better if there was some attempt to rework the sequence of self destruct activation->running to the shuttle->meeting with Alien->trying to abort self destruct and failing->running to the shuttle again. I understand the intention but it looks a little wonky to activate self destruct only to try to deactivate a moment later.
Yeah, you can figure out why she goes back to deactivate the self-destruct, but it's not made abundantly clear in the film. The split-second glimpse of the alien was originally going to be a lot longer, there's footage of it uncurling in the corridor. In that shot, you can tell that it's standing in the entrance to the Narcissus. I can see why they cut it, because the shot does make the alien look like a man in a suit, but its excision harms the narrative IMO.
I thought the self-destruct sequence was clear enough in its editing: Ripley initiates the (10 minutes) self-destruct sequence and leaves to board the shuttle, blocked by the Alien, she returns and attempts to abort the self-destruct. She doesn't quite make it in time, the option to cancel (within the first five minutes) has now passed - countdown is inevitable, she has no choice but to go back (to the shuttle).
The deleted Alien corridor footage was wisely not used. The quick glimpses viewed in the final film are more effective, IMO.
My opinion, others may vary, is that it's not obvious in the film that the alien is blocking the entrance to the Narcissus. It just looks like she bumps into the alien somewhere and suddenly changes her mind about the self-destruct. It's a bit more telegraphed in the cut shot, because of the contrast between the safe-looking white area behind the alien and the dark technical corridor in front of it, and because the twin set of doors looks like an airlock.
This is the first time I've heard someone not think this was clear.
Quote from: Vertigo on Apr 21, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
My opinion, others may vary, is that it's not obvious in the film that the alien is blocking the entrance to the Narcissus. It just looks like she bumps into the alien somewhere and suddenly changes her mind about the self-destruct. It's a bit more telegraphed in the cut shot, because of the contrast between the safe-looking white area behind the alien and the dark technical corridor in front of it, and because the twin set of doors looks like an airlock.
It was set up (shortly before) in the film that she was preparing the shuttle for use. After setting the self-destruct, where else would she be headed but the shuttle?
The audience would (correctly) assume the Alien was blocking the route to the shuttle.
QuoteI'm also not quite sure why Ripley didn't want to blow up the ship when Parker did but hey just my two cents.
"The shuttle won't take four".
Quote from: SiL on Apr 21, 2019, 09:03:40 PM
This is the first time I've heard someone not think this was clear.
Indeed.
Quote from: Vertigo on Apr 21, 2019, 01:56:13 PM
Quote from: ep40 on Apr 21, 2019, 12:19:30 PM
I think pacing would be better if there was some attempt to rework the sequence of self destruct activation->running to the shuttle->meeting with Alien->trying to abort self destruct and failing->running to the shuttle again. I understand the intention but it looks a little wonky to activate self destruct only to try to deactivate a moment later.
Yeah, you can figure out why she goes back to deactivate the self-destruct, but it's not made abundantly clear in the film. The split-second glimpse of the alien was originally going to be a lot longer, there's footage of it uncurling in the corridor. In that shot, you can tell that it's standing in the entrance to the Narcissus. I can see why they cut it, because the shot does make the alien look like a man in a suit, but its excision harms the narrative IMO.
I neglected to answer this. As Ripley sets the self-destruct, there's this exposition from MU/TH/UR, informing Ripley (and the audience) that:
"DANGER. THE EMERGENCY DESTRUCT SYSTEM IS NOW ACTIVATED. THE SHIP WILL DETONATE IN T-MINUS 10 MINUTES.
THE OPTION TO OVERRIDE AUTOMATIC DETONATION EXPIRES IN T-MINUS 05 MINUTES."
This is all the motivation Ripley needs - blocked by the Alien - she only has 5 minutes (or less) to abort the countdown.
The idea of a self destruct system always seemed a bit silly to me. It's not like the craft was being used to carry government secrets.
Unless it found itself in danger of crashing down onto a planet's surface or something, and had to be destroyed before it could harm anyone. Or piracy, I suppose. Either that or its some aftermarket illegal modification.
> Says it seems silly
> Lists good reasons it's there :D
There are good reasons to have a scuttle procedure in place.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2019, 01:38:19 AM
> Says it seems silly
> Lists good reasons it's there :D
There are good reasons to have a scuttle procedure in place.
I'm brainstorming as hard as I can to find good reasons.
A self destruct option with Parker and Brett onboard? I don't know about that. ;)
Bruh there's like a dozen steps, they're both far too lazy to go through that for nothing.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2019, 01:54:43 AM
Bruh there's like a dozen steps, they're both far too lazy to go through that for nothing.
Yeah, but it's all written down.
"I wanna talk about the bonus situation."
"Oh, would ya knock it off Parker"
"B*tch, I will blow your @$$ up"
"Right"
But then he couldn't go home and party.
And they'd have five minutes to reverse it once they realise they can't go home and party.
I imagine it'd be preferable to scuttle a freighter and its payload if it was malfunctioning and on a collision course with a planet or space station.
The part where the Alien is bouncing around outside the shuttle was prob my biggest flaw.
'Main in a suit' aside, I don't get the 'bouncing around' thing. It hits the shuttle, 'bounces' once then locks its tail onto the engine and drags itself in - which I always though looked awesome.
Quote from: iain on Apr 22, 2019, 10:08:09 PM
The part where the Alien is bouncing around outside the shuttle was prob my biggest flaw.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/rgBwKeJTlGg9O/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cbe3d504f43634f4d7bf9ec)
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside, I don't get the 'bouncing around' thing. It hits the shuttle, 'bounces' once then locks its tail onto the engine and drags itself in - which I always though looked awesome.
Me too. I always dig the alien's shuttle exterior scenes - especially how gracefully it sweeps past the camera when it's blown away. Art.
It's laughable. Unfortunately.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2019, 10:17:42 PM
Quote from: iain on Apr 22, 2019, 10:08:09 PM
The part where the Alien is bouncing around outside the shuttle was prob my biggest flaw.
https://media0.giphy.com/media/rgBwKeJTlGg9O/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cbe3d504f43634f4d7bf9ec
It's freakin' Alien. Allowances will be made.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 22, 2019, 10:23:28 PM
It's freakin' Alien. Allowances will be made.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/rgBwKeJTlGg9O/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cbe3d504f43634f4d7bf9ec)
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside, I don't get the 'bouncing around' thing. It hits the shuttle, 'bounces' once then locks its tail onto the engine and drags itself in - which I always though looked awesome.
Agreed. The problem is there isn't any access inside the thruster for it to gain entry back into the shuttle. And it wasn't trying to hide, so what was it trying to accomplish?
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 22, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside, I don't get the 'bouncing around' thing. It hits the shuttle, 'bounces' once then locks its tail onto the engine and drags itself in - which I always though looked awesome.
Agreed. The problem is there isn't any access inside the thruster for it to gain entry back into the shuttle. And it wasn't trying to hide, so what was it trying to accomplish?
To expend the crew.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 22, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
Agreed. The problem is there isn't any access inside the thruster for it to gain entry back into the shuttle. And it wasn't trying to hide, so what was it trying to accomplish?
It was probably trying to get back in through the thruster. We know it couldn't, it doesn't.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 22, 2019, 11:15:57 PM
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 22, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
Agreed. The problem is there isn't any access inside the thruster for it to gain entry back into the shuttle. And it wasn't trying to hide, so what was it trying to accomplish?
It was probably trying to get back in through the thruster. We know it couldn't, it doesn't.
Indeed. A scantily clad woman and a nice cat in a space shuttle beats the crap out of drifting alone outside.
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside
To me, part of it doesn't even appear like a man in a suit. Just a dummy in a suit. Or just a suit which contributes to the hokeyness of it.
Quote from: Elmazalman on Apr 22, 2019, 10:43:29 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside, I don't get the 'bouncing around' thing. It hits the shuttle, 'bounces' once then locks its tail onto the engine and drags itself in - which I always though looked awesome.
Agreed. The problem is there isn't any access inside the thruster for it to gain entry back into the shuttle. And it wasn't trying to hide, so what was it trying to accomplish?
It was trying to get back in but didn't know it could get back in that way.
EDIT - SiL beat me to it.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 22, 2019, 11:43:22 PM
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
'Main in a suit' aside
To me, part of it doesn't even appear like a man in a suit. Just a dummy in a suit. Or just a suit which contributes to the hokeyness of it.
It appears to be a stuffed dummy, (behind-the-scenes footage confirms it's a dressed stuntman) and the way it hooks its tail spike on the lip of the thruster, looks like it's being pulled by a wire attached. I still think It looks good though.
I just love the way it used the tail instead of something more dull like using its hands.
I try to keep in mind this was a movie made in a time of lesser capabilities and resources.
They did the best they could with what they had.
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 11:55:58 PM
I just love the way it used the tail instead of something more dull like using its hands.
The tail grabbing and pulling the Alien into the thruster is a good shot. The bounce, not so much.
It's a pity the footage of the Alien hitting the ship seen from inside the shuttle didn't look much better.
Quote from: SM on Apr 22, 2019, 11:55:58 PM
I just love the way it used the tail instead of something more dull like using its hands.
Perhaps the director's influence? He wanted more animation in the suit.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 22, 2019, 11:56:30 PM
I try to keep in mind this was a movie made in a time of lesser capabilities and resources.
They did the best they could with what they had.
I don't necessarily think it was the best they could do at the time, or with what they had.
Something like that I would extend to the stop-motion animation of the endoskeleton in The Terminator.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CoarseConstantEmperorpenguin-size_restricted.gif)
However regardless, it doesn't change the fact that I deeply love Alien, even if I believe Ridley had the capability of filming it better. :)
Maybe it was Ridley taking a parting shot at the moon landing?
Maybe he doesn't believe.
Alien didn't have the time or the budget for a complicated stop-motion sequence on top of everything else, and were rushing by the end of production. They did what they could with the resources they had.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
Alien didn't have the time or the budget for a complicated stop-motion sequence on top of everything else, and were rushing by the end of production. They did what they could with the resources they had.
Well there it is.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
Alien didn't have the time or the budget for a complicated stop-motion sequence on top of everything else, and were rushing by the end of production. They did what they could with the resources they had.
Thank god they didn't go with stop motion. That sort of thing got as good as it was going to get at the end of the 70s, and it still wasn't quite there. Lucas got away it in the Star Wars films because walkers don't have to move fluidly like animals and Cameron kinda got away with the background loader in Aliens.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2019, 12:31:29 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 12:19:47 AM
Alien didn't have the time or the budget for a complicated stop-motion sequence on top of everything else, and were rushing by the end of production. They did what they could with the resources they had.
Well there it is.
Uhh... who wanted stop motion in Alien? That's the silliest, goofiest idea in my opinion.
In Terminator the stop motion looked goofy, but it was the "best they could do at the time, or with what they had" to make an Endoskeleton walk. So I can forgive it...
..forgive it more than Alien, which the ending could have easily been less goofy by better filming, framing and editing the sequence.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2019, 01:32:26 AM
Uhh... who wanted stop motion in Alien? That's the silliest, goofiest idea in my opinion.
Sounded like it from your post, sorry.
What would have been the best with what they had?
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2019, 01:32:26 AM
Uhh... who wanted stop motion in Alien? That's the silliest, goofiest idea in my opinion.
Sounded like it from your post, sorry.
What would have been the best with what they had?
Better filming, framing and editing the sequence.
The best way example was to just simply re-edit it with the final footage. I grabbed a clip off YouTube and redited it on my phone. Only took a couple minutes.
This edit not only removes the hokeyness that briefly takes me (and others) out of the movie, but amps the excitement level due to its increased pace in my opinion. I wouldn't stop there of course. I would have gone through all their unused footage as an editor. See what else can be done.
That's why I didn't agree it was the best they could do at the time, or with what they had, in regards to eliminating what's hokey. :)
QuoteI grabbed a clip off YouTube and redited it on my phone. Only took a couple minutes.
Spoiler
(https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ridley-scott-01.jpg)
:laugh:
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2019, 03:08:22 AM
Better filming, framing and editing the sequence.
The best way example was to just simply re-edit it with the final footage. I grabbed a clip off YouTube and redited it on my phone. Only took a couple minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxc-UhmIE8
This edit not only removes the hokeyness that briefly takes me (and others) out of the movie, but amps the excitement level due to its increased pace in my opinion. I wouldn't stop there of course. I would have gone through all their unused footage as an editor. See what else can be done.
That's why I didn't agree it was the best they could do at the time, or with what they had, in regards to eliminating what's hokey. :)
Nicely done! Even just removing the bounce fixes a lot. There is extra footage, for example a shot inside the ship as the Alien bounces back towards the ship, but it looks just as terrible as the reverse.
Don't think it works. The Alien flies away from the ship, then is suddenly back at the hatch.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 23, 2019, 03:23:51 AM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 23, 2019, 03:08:22 AM
Better filming, framing and editing the sequence.
The best way example was to just simply re-edit it with the final footage. I grabbed a clip off YouTube and redited it on my phone. Only took a couple minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxc-UhmIE8
This edit not only removes the hokeyness that briefly takes me (and others) out of the movie, but amps the excitement level due to its increased pace in my opinion. I wouldn't stop there of course. I would have gone through all their unused footage as an editor. See what else can be done.
That's why I didn't agree it was the best they could do at the time, or with what they had, in regards to eliminating what's hokey. :)
Nicely done! Even just removing the bounce fixes a lot. There is extra footage, for example a shot inside the ship as the Alien bounces back towards the ship, but it looks just as terrible as the reverse.
Thanks. I just removed the entire sound track so it plays cleaner. Nothing jarring.
Hmm. Maybe there are at least some additional closeups of the Alien that would be usuable? Oh well. I still love Alien regardless.
Quote from: SM on Apr 23, 2019, 03:39:28 AM
Don't think it works. The Alien flies away from the ship, then is suddenly back at the hatch.
I thought of that. I probably could trim the distance.
Looks good, except for Ripley making it from the chair to the window in like 0.000001 seconds.
Here you go SM. Distance trimmed.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2019, 03:50:43 AM
Looks good, except for Ripley making it from the chair to the window in like 0.000001 seconds.
In all fairness to me, Ripley makes it back to the chair just as quick, and that's not my doing. ;D
Looking through the footage, it's not the actual bounce that's bad -- it's the bit where's just kind'a hanging on the rope before the bounce that makes him look like a stumpy doll. When he bounces his limbs start moving and he actually looks right.
*starts editing*
I think the climax would have worked better if close-ups were used instead of long shots. Saving any full body shots exclusively for the silhouette falling away after being fried.
The close-ups didn't look good and they had to establish what was actually happening.
Now send it to Vermillion and let's hope he uses it.
lol No.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 23, 2019, 02:22:53 PM
Now send it to Vermillion and let's hope he uses it.
Can't. Anytime I approach the Raised By Wolves set, Vermillion calls security.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 23, 2019, 02:27:08 PM
lol No.
Even though it looks hokey to you too, you think you'd miss it too much?
No.
But hate is a gift.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OffbeatLinearBantamrooster-size_restricted.gif)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 23, 2019, 02:22:53 PM
Now send it to Vermillion and let's hope he uses it.
It's not verm.
RIP Terry. :'(
Witnessing the kids phone-editing Alien was too much. ;)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/BIZkwFtu2xDlS/giphy.gif)
Quote from: kwisatz on Apr 23, 2019, 06:47:00 PM
RIP Terry. :'(
Witnessing the kids phone-editing Alien was too much. ;)
Way, way too soon.
I think the assumption "Let's try to scare it with fire because animals are afraid of fire" is kinda silly because Alien isn't animal actually but, you know, is Alien that means it's not guaranteed he obey to the laws of Earth's nature. So it's little "meh" to risk your life with such unproven statement.
It was a calculated gamble. Besides, Ash was probably bullshitting them anyway.
Given what little they had to work with, I'd much rather take my chances with a flame thrower than a cattle prod and a net.
I'd have taken my chances with the pistols before abandoning the ship in that shuttle with three people.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 23, 2019, 10:13:49 PM
I'd have taken my chances with the pistols before abandoning the ship in that shuttle with three people.
I once said the same thing, then SM mentioned the acid. I'd still probably just suit up and blast it. Then I'd still have enough oxygen to make it to the narcissus.
Did they even bring the weapons back with them from the juggernaut?
I don't see why not. Good idea about using the spacesuits.
Suit up, arm up, group travel to collect supplies.
If it shows up, kill it, and continue on.
The acid is what it is. Shoot it in the head, with any luck the acid will stop after a few decks. As long as you don't unload on the thing and blow its limbs and upper half away, how much acid could there honestly be?
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 23, 2019, 09:45:30 PM
I think the assumption "Let's try to scare it with fire because animals are afraid of fire" is kinda silly because Alien isn't animal actually but, you know, is Alien that means it's not guaranteed he obey to the laws of Earth's nature. So it's little "meh" to risk your life with such unproven statement.
What is it if it isn't an animal?
And how to you suggest they prove it?
It's A.I according to Ridley Scott and David.
Not sure that stops it being an animal.
And Ash was ultimately correct anyway.
How about an ambulatory mineral?
You're an ambulatory mineral.
I can't deny that.
:laugh:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/12QVSQcPbhW6u4/giphy.gif)
Yes.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2019, 10:27:32 PM
Suit up, arm up, group travel to collect supplies.
If it shows up, kill it, and continue on.
The acid is what it is. Shoot it in the head, with any luck the acid will stop after a few decks. As long as you don't unload on the thing and blow its limbs and upper half away, how much acid could there honestly be?
A tiny cut from the facehugger finger went through two decks. Melting holes through spaceships is not terribly conducive to said spaceships remaining viable.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 24, 2019, 12:52:06 AM
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 23, 2019, 10:27:32 PM
Suit up, arm up, group travel to collect supplies.
If it shows up, kill it, and continue on.
The acid is what it is. Shoot it in the head, with any luck the acid will stop after a few decks. As long as you don't unload on the thing and blow its limbs and upper half away, how much acid could there honestly be?
A tiny cut from the facehugger finger went through two decks. Melting holes through spaceships is not terribly conducive to said spaceships remaining viable.
Hence the narcissus.
Just take the guns. If you can kill it on the way, why not?
Can't sections of the Nostromo be sealed from each other in case of a hull breach?
Yes. There are bulkhead doors all over the place.
But they don't have an endless supply of air.
There are three decks. You shoot it on B or C deck and you're guaranteed farked. Shoot it on A deck and your almost guaranteed farked.
Quote from: SM on Apr 24, 2019, 01:06:11 AM
Yes. There are bulkhead doors all over the place.
But they don't have an endless supply of air.
There are three decks. You shoot it on B or C deck and you're guaranteed farked. Shoot it on A deck and your almost guaranteed farked.
Hence wearing the suits.
If the oxygen gets vented, you can make it to the narcissus.
If the acid damage doesn't result in a breach, take the suits off.
Assuming you don't destroy any vital wiring between the decks - how do you fit 6 people on Narcissus?
As long as the hypersleep vault remains intact and functional, wouldn't it be preferable to stay on the Nostromo even if it was turned into Swiss cheese?
Depends how swiss cheesed it is.
You've already lost most , if not all, your air, so resort to suits - which won't last 10 months. Assuming acid hasn't damaged the FTL drive, and it'll still only take 10 months to get home, and you still have artificial gravity, water supply, power, hypersleep still works, etc.
The Nostromo probably also can't enter the atmosphere if the hull's breached because you've got a massive hole in the heat shielding. Bulkheads will keep the air in place, but you're destroying wiring and potentially important structures. Assuming you can just go back in the freezers, it's going to be a mission for people to get you off the ship when you arrive home.
Oh, actually, one flaw that's bugged me a few times: why does the air vent system lead straight to the airlock? Isn't that the last place you'd want a major opening? Those irises don't really look air-tight.
I just assumed there's airducts criss-crossing all over the ship - Dallas and the Alien were just the main one.
I get that, by why would you want a major opening of the main air duct over an air-lock? Obviously you need a vent to pump air back into the lock after it's sealed, but it's a giant-ass opening.
I don't think it was over the main airlock? More the vestibule adjacent to the airlock where Ash waits outside the inner hatch. Ash and Ripley open the inner hatch and seal themselves off in a corridor waiting for Dallas to drive it in.
Dallas says "comes out over the main airlock", but that could be an oversimplification. The vestibule makes more sense.
Yeah if it came out in the airlock itself having the inner hatch open would just be a good escape route for the Alien.
I wonder if they could have just suited up and depressurized the entire ship first. Then go hunting with their pistols and hopefully shoot the alien dead without having to worry about explosive decompression if they breach the hull.
Even if they didn't do that, it sounds like an interesting thing to try in a hypothetical Alien story once again set on board a spaceship.
It depends on how bulky the suits are.
If movement is difficult, you'd need a rear guard to prevent attacks from behind.
I seem to remember the idea being discussed in the novelization. That venting the ship first would leave little time to search, as oxygen in the suits would deplete. Thus forcing them to go into cryo with it still alive. Easy snacks for the alien.
Quote from: SM on Apr 23, 2019, 10:32:21 PM
Quote from: Kradan on Apr 23, 2019, 09:45:30 PM
I think the assumption "Let's try to scare it with fire because animals are afraid of fire" is kinda silly because Alien isn't animal actually but, you know, is Alien that means it's not guaranteed he obey to the laws of Earth's nature. So it's little "meh" to risk your life with such unproven statement.
What is it if it isn't an animal?
And how to you suggest they prove it?
I meant that as far as it is Alien you can't actually use Earth biology laws on it. So even if it looks like animal; it's not 100 % means that it's animal and not something that our science even doesn't have name for. I remember Ash in novelisation theorising that facehugger could be an plant or something for instance.
And they've already tried to treat it as animal with net and electroshock stick and it has failed and has been costed them life of one of the crew.
Yeah it's hard to prove such statement but if they cannot be completely insured that it'll work why not come up with smth else?
They never got a chance to try the net and prod. There's every chance it could've worked had the Alien still been the size they thought it was.
Ash even said the only thing didn't know about was its resilience to a temperature change so Ripley went with that. It was an educated guess, probably based on the fact that fire tends to burn things (whether or not they're animals, minerals or vegetables).
Quite.
Isn't there some technical drawings showing that there is supposed to be a shuttle on each side of the Nostromo? But the ship is old and WY don't maintain it properly. Sure I've seen that somewhere.
Graham Langridge's blueprint that came with Alien Vault.
Why can't they all figure out a way to make the escape shuttle work!? If it's life and death, looks like there's room there.
The shot where Ash's head gets kicked always stands out to me.
Because they're 10 months from home, 6 weeks from the frontier, it's a tiny shuttle and can only freeze two people. They'd die.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2019, 12:56:50 AM
Because they're 10 months from home, 6 weeks from the frontier, it's a tiny shuttle and can only freeze two people. They'd die.
This.
Although I'd much rather die of starvation onboard the narcissus than be chewed to bits by a xenomorph in the dark.
Yeah, agreed.
Quote from: Huggs on Apr 28, 2019, 01:25:39 AM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2019, 12:56:50 AM
Because they're 10 months from home, 6 weeks from the frontier, it's a tiny shuttle and can only freeze two people. They'd die.
This.
Although I'd much rather die of starvation onboard the narcissus than be chewed to bits by a xenomorph in the dark.
I'm not sure you would. Alien death is quick, at least.
Starving on an escape shuttle for months, knowing your coworkers are in a life preserving cryopod next to you would be soul destroying. It's a long, drawn out death which would drive you insane.
Assuming you don't run out of air first, actually.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 28, 2019, 07:07:48 AM
Assuming you don't run out of air first, actually.
^
Four people on the shuttle was certain death. Trying to run the Alien off the ship was almost certain death. Big distinction ;D
Also, it wouldn't be that quick a death if the Alien decided to morph you or cocoon you.
Couple hours tops.
Nasty couple of hours but.
Charming.
Ok, so if company was so eager to get xenomorph and we know that Nostromo got to LV-426 not by accident but because of WY's will then why Ripley was able to figure out that this is not distress signal but basically "get the f**k away from here" sign? It makes no sense to me.
I'm not seeing what the problem is there.
Ripley ran the signal through an on-board program that partially translated the message. What does that have to do with the rest?
Quote from: Gash on Apr 25, 2019, 10:18:06 AM
Isn't there some technical drawings showing that there is supposed to be a shuttle on each side of the Nostromo? But the ship is old and WY don't maintain it properly. Sure I've seen that somewhere.
Some of the scripts also mentioned another busted up shuttle. I think the Nostromo in its prime was intended to have a few 'lifeboats'.
"Flaws of Alien. Not joking"
'A flawless film' can certainly be viewed as a literal description, but 'a flawless film' can also be viewed as a state of mind.
I agree, nothing is flawless really it's just all degrees, until a particular aspect registers as a genuine issue for the viewer.
That dangling on the rope shot really does shit me.
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
The obvious ADR and Cat smack also register though.
I can forgive it's faults because I enjoy it so much.
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
Heh, heh. Yup, that definitely falls within your category "genuine issue."
One example where a flaw gives the film more....personality, for lack of a better description, is the Stormtrooper banging his helmet on the entrance ledge in Star Wars. It's one of the very few flaws that fans received it as charming rather than outraged over it.
A now staple of Jango Fett's legacy.
The greatest army of all time,
and no depth perception. ;D
The wire frame that gives shape to the upper translucent lip is partially exposed for this (near) flawless shot:
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjJDtvRJ/image054.jpg)
A tiny niggle made even more apparent in 4K.
A true nitpick.
Considering the biomechanical look it fits right at home.
I'd certainly say so.
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
The obvious ADR and Cat smack also register though.
I think I've trained myself to blink exactly at the cut on the dummy head. Since apparently nobody will ever do the obvious cutaway fix.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 13, 2019, 04:22:42 AM
Considering the biomechanical look it fits right at home.
What he said.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 12, 2019, 10:07:50 AM
I'm not seeing what the problem is there.
Ripley ran the signal through an on-board program that partially translated the message. What does that have to do with the rest?
Isn't there danger to screw up "mission" to get xeno? Why WY left them even the smallest clue that's something could be wrong on this planet? If Ripley had figured out true sense of message earlier Nostromo's crew probably wouldn't even have left the ship. If Company was able to change course of Nostromo so then why they couldn't change something in on-board program?
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 13, 2019, 03:58:27 AM
A true nitpick.
Bloody 4K.
Quote from: SiL on Jul 13, 2019, 04:22:42 AM
Considering the biomechanical look it fits right at home.
I thought the same as I posted, but reasoned: "Why not?"
Quote from: Kradan on Jul 13, 2019, 05:10:44 AM
Isn't there danger to screw up "mission" to get xeno? Why WY left them even the smallest clue that's something could be wrong on this planet? If Ripley had figured out true sense of message earlier Nostromo's crew probably wouldn't even have left the ship. If Company was able to change course of Nostromo so then why they couldn't change something in on-board program?
They had to investigate regardless.
And no one really knew what they were in for.
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
For me it's Ash's torso: when he's atop Parker, you can see he has no legs at all.
Quote from: Valaquen on Jul 13, 2019, 12:33:43 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
For me it's Ash's torso: when he's atop Parker, you can see he has no legs at all.
For some, it's Parker's safety pin.
Agreed, the legless Ash dummy is worse.
The beep boop robot arms the second he loses his head are a bit much too.
motherf**kers this movie is ancient!
they didn't have all this newfangled princes leia heads back in the day
Pfft... kids...
Quote from: Kimarhi on Jul 14, 2019, 05:25:01 AM
motherf**kers this movie is ancient!
they didn't have all this newfangled princes leia heads back in the day
There had to be a way to do those arms less karate-choppy
As for Ash's torso, it's curiously a aspect the "DC" genuinely attempted to rectify,
through the altered framing of the fight.
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 14, 2019, 10:25:14 PM
As for Ash's torso, it's curiously a aspect the "DC" genuinely attempted to rectify,
through the altered framing of the fight.
And it still left in the head cut in the
same scene
I know, lol.
We all know, but it bears repeating. Often.
Perhaps so, it's not great lol.
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
I really wish they'd fix that in the re-releases.
I also hate the robot arms that the fella inside Ash's head-less body does. But that's less fixable.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jul 15, 2019, 08:36:14 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Jul 12, 2019, 11:05:26 PM
For me it's Ash's head, always above all else.
I really wish they'd fix that in the re-releases.
I also hate the robot arms that the fella inside Ash's head-less body does. But that's less fixable.
I don't know why the Director didn't have Ash's hands round Parker's throat throttling him just before he is shut down. The scene would have been even more life-threatening for Parker, and also give the silly 'karate chop' hands something useful to do.
Quote from: SiL on Apr 14, 2019, 02:56:30 AM
It's right around Ash's Nipple Cripple of Doom.
As someone who has experienced that technique in a wrestling match from human strength, I can't imagine poor Parker's torment with Android strength.
Quote from: razeak on Jul 22, 2019, 05:01:43 PM
Quote from: SiL on Apr 14, 2019, 02:56:30 AM
It's right around Ash's Nipple Cripple of Doom.
As someone who has experienced that technique in a wrestling match from human strength, I can't imagine poor Parker's torment with Android strength.
There are worse things he could've clamped down on.
Their resistance to using firearms in regard to acid danger probably had a lot to do with training and education for their career choice. Im sure it has literally been bear I to their brains how dangerous space is and what the risks are with even a small breach.
I would imagine similar care taken on a submarine, or Ina power plant for that matter. There are certain goalposts in professions that are nigh immovable.
I think you're correct. Whether intentional or unintentional by the creators of the film, it's very believable.
They had to get rid of firearms in a believable way so some joker in the crowed isn't just questioning why a hundred years in the future we didn't have a guy ready to just shoot the f**ker. Especially when these fellas were mostly AMERICAN. If they were Canadian or some other non cowboy country it'd be different.
So acid.
Yeah, I always loved that so many circumstances fell in the right way to make the film we got. One of my favorite things is the origin of the acid blood.
You can never really see the skull behind the alien's dome in the movie. I think if the whole film had been lightened up a bit we would've seen more of that detail. Also, the space jockey looked like it was made out of styrofoam.
You can make out the shapes of the skull in the close up on the Alien while it's exercising its jaw on the shuttle.
One can almost see the skull in this shot too, before attacking Dallas.
(https://i.imgur.com/Maq9WNu.jpg)
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 29, 2019, 07:42:07 AM
One can almost see the skull in this shot too, before attacking Dallas.
(https://i.imgur.com/Maq9WNu.jpg)
That's why this will always be my favourite shot of the creature with Bolaji Badejo in the suit.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/Znnv6M7q/Screen-Shot-2019-07-29-at-6-12-07-pm.png)
Quote from: Elmazalman on Jul 29, 2019, 08:48:23 AM
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jul 29, 2019, 07:42:07 AM
One can almost see the skull in this shot too, before attacking Dallas.
(https://i.imgur.com/Maq9WNu.jpg)
That's why this will always be my favourite shot of the creature with Bolaji Badejo in the suit.
Spoiler
(https://i.postimg.cc/Znnv6M7q/Screen-Shot-2019-07-29-at-6-12-07-pm.png)
I second that but also, I like this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/zyA7BES.gif)
That's a beautiful shot. Another one of my favourites.
That's probably my favorite xeno shot from the entire series. It's so menacing in a way that everything post Alien/Aliens failed to match. A3 was close a few times. The rest of the directors might as well have been paint by numbers.
Dallas looking up at his own feet is the only flaw I can think of.