Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series

Started by Corporal Hicks, Oct 10, 2013, 08:24:08 PM

Author
Dark Horse To Reboot Comic Series (Read 270,632 times)

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#210
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:17:08 AM
Could be like the Sacrifice comic for example.  No direct link to any film character or event.  Not even the Company rates a mention
To be fair, doesn't Sacrifice reference the infestation of Earth?

predxeno

predxeno

#211
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:17:08 AM
You can say that, if you like.  Just don't expect everyone to buy it, because many people will think it's a stupid idea that makes no sense and lacks any substance whatsoever.

I have Fox saying it's canon (however shallow their words are) which is much more than what fans have fighting for their arguments.  Also the entire "only movies are canon" argument is possibly the worst explanation I've heard mention on this site, NOT because the idea itself is dumb, but because in order to use it properly people go through a maze of double standards and hypocrisies; one only needs to mention the AVP films to expose the twisted reality of this proclaimed truth. 

The reason people say "only movies are canon" and not "only SOME movies are canon" is because that single word "SOME" has the power to cast doubt over their entire argument; it implies that their standards of justification is faulty and that films such as fan-favorites Alien, Aliens, and Predator may be considered non-canon as well while hated films such as Alien Resurrection and Predator 2 have more firepower over the ones fans want to be on top.  In order to resolve this, fans will either have to admit that this line of reasoning is either incorrect if they want to preserve the dignity of the original films or they will have to admit that the EU may be considered canon as well.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:17:08 AM
QuoteWhat really gets me is how the writer for these new AVP series comics say that he's simply not going to include the AVP movies in his canon simply because the fan community says so. 

Did he actually say that?  Even if he did, you don't know what form that'll take.  It may simply ignore the films (ie. the events don't follow Bouvet/ Gunnison and the characters aren't Lex, Dallas, pizza boy, Ripley clone and Newt clone), but not outright negate their existance.  Could be like the Sacrifice comic for example.  No direct link to any film character or event.  Not even the Company rates a mention.

And if they do choose to negate the films - that's a commercial decision they have to live with, but one not many people will ultimately lose sleep over; the films aren't well liked.  Even by people who like them.  Might also be a licensing decision - they may not have access to the AvP film license - despite the fact it was born out of them combining the two creatures in the first place.

Yes, he actually said that in one of the links; he mentioned that he would not reference the AVP films cause the fan community likes to think of it as in its own bubble.  It's not the action of ignoring the films themselves that I'm upset about, it's the reasoning behind them; as I said before, if the AVP movies don't fit then they don't fit.  However if they can fit and might even enhance the story, then there's no reason why they should be removed at the story's expense simply because they come from an unpopular background.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:17:08 AM
QuoteIn the end, what I'm saying is that stories deserve to be told for what they are and shouldn't have to make adjustments to what people want, that doesn't determine a good story, it's what comes into a writer's mind in its truest form that really sells.

Which directly flies in the face of what you've been saying about Ridley Scott and Prometheus.  If he changed his story to conform with AvP, wouldn't that be it being adjusted to what YOU - the fan, whose demands should be ignored - want?

I'm still convinced that Ridley Scott altered the Alien Prequel idea into Prometheus because he was afraid the modern casual audience didn't care about the title anymore; it's why they rebooted Star Trek and remade so many movies, and Ridley's following the trend.  My conspiracy theories aside, however, the answer to your question is no; it's a very different thing creating your own story true to your heart and following film continuity.  A scriptwriter can write from the heart for a future Alien film, but it DOESN'T mean he can choose to resurrect Ripley without giving a decent explanation for it (if any exists at all); there are rules and requirements that are placed implicitly on people who want to add to an already established franchise and they should be enforced to the strictest extent.

SM

SM

#212
QuoteI have Fox saying it's canon (however shallow their words are) which is much more than what fans have fighting for their arguments.

Depends on whether fans arguments can hold water where a licensee's can't.

QuoteAlso the entire "only movies are canon" argument is possibly the worst explanation I've heard mention on this site, NOT because the idea itself is dumb, but because in order to use it properly people go through a maze of double standards and hypocrisies; one only needs to mention the AVP films to expose the twisted reality of this proclaimed truth. 

Possibly why many people don't consider AvP canon.

Though your accusations of hypocrisy are rather amusing...

QuoteThe reason people say "only movies are canon" and not "only SOME movies are canon" is because that single word "SOME" has the power to cast doubt over their entire argument; it implies that their standards of justification is faulty and that films such as fan-favorites Alien, Aliens, and Predator may be considered non-canon as well while hated films such as Alien Resurrection and Predator 2 have more firepower over the ones fans want to be on top.  In order to resolve this, fans will either have to admit that this line of reasoning is either incorrect if they want to preserve the dignity of the original films or they will have to admit that the EU may be considered canon as well.

You know, I think you'll be a lot happier when you learn to accept what you cannot change.

QuoteA scriptwriter can write from the heart for a future Alien film, but it DOESN'T mean he can choose to resurrect Ripley without giving a decent explanation for it (if any exists at all); there are rules and requirements that are placed implicitly on people who want to add to an already established franchise and they should be enforced to the strictest extent.

Rules can be chucked out the window depending on whose in charge.  The final product lives and dies on whether people accept it or not.  You cold probably count the people who cared that Prometheus ignored AvP on one hand.

predxeno

predxeno

#213
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:45:45 AM
QuoteAlso the entire "only movies are canon" argument is possibly the worst explanation I've heard mention on this site, NOT because the idea itself is dumb, but because in order to use it properly people go through a maze of double standards and hypocrisies; one only needs to mention the AVP films to expose the twisted reality of this proclaimed truth. 

Possibly why many people don't consider AvP canon.

Though your accusations of hypocrisy are rather amusing...

I don't understand what you are saying here.  Also, a little bit of professionalism goes a long way.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:45:45 AM
QuoteThe reason people say "only movies are canon" and not "only SOME movies are canon" is because that single word "SOME" has the power to cast doubt over their entire argument; it implies that their standards of justification is faulty and that films such as fan-favorites Alien, Aliens, and Predator may be considered non-canon as well while hated films such as Alien Resurrection and Predator 2 have more firepower over the ones fans want to be on top.  In order to resolve this, fans will either have to admit that this line of reasoning is either incorrect if they want to preserve the dignity of the original films or they will have to admit that the EU may be considered canon as well.

You know, I think you'll be a lot happier when you learn to accept what you cannot change.

Yes that's true however I fight for what I believe in and I don't turn away just because it's easier, if it that means I have to sacrifice certain pleasures in life, like happiness, so be it.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:45:45 AM
Rules can be chucked out the window depending on whose in charge.  The final product lives and dies on whether people accept it or not.  You cold probably count the people who cared that Prometheus ignored AvP on one hand.

We can also count A:CM and their resurrection of Hicks (which I liked, btw), but then again we're running into that double standard where the fan base is overtly harsh on products they don't like and overtly lenient and products they do; I believe in a neutral opinion unaffected by one's feelings toward the title.

SM

SM

#214
QuoteYes that's true however I fight for what I believe in and I don't turn away just because it's easier, if it that means I have to sacrifice certain pleasures in life, like happiness, so be it.


And how's that working out for you?

QuoteWe can also count A:CM and their resurrection of Hicks (which I liked, btw), but then again we're running into that double standard where the fan base is overtly harsh on products they don't like and overtly lenient and products they do; I believe in a neutral opinion unaffected by one's feelings toward the title.

I believe in a neutral opinion where the actual content is assessed against whether it conforms with the primary source material and unaffected by the fact it simply has 'Aliens' slapped on it.

predxeno

predxeno

#215
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 04:24:07 AM
QuoteYes that's true however I fight for what I believe in and I don't turn away just because it's easier, if it that means I have to sacrifice certain pleasures in life, like happiness, so be it.


And how's that working out for you?

Sacrifices are made for the greater good (from my angle) so how I am is irrelevant.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 04:24:07 AM
QuoteWe can also count A:CM and their resurrection of Hicks (which I liked, btw), but then again we're running into that double standard where the fan base is overtly harsh on products they don't like and overtly lenient and products they do; I believe in a neutral opinion unaffected by one's feelings toward the title.

I believe in a neutral opinion where the actual content is assessed against whether it conforms with the primary source material and unaffected by the fact it simply has 'Aliens' slapped on it.

You realize that whatever argument you will state in that regard will correspondingly affect the Prometheus discussion we're having in the other thread, right?

SM

SM

#216
Not really.

predxeno

predxeno

#217
Well, we have different viewpoints ironically so let's see where this goes.

SM

SM

#218
That's not ironic.

StrangeShape

Quote from: Xenomrph on Oct 31, 2013, 03:22:37 AM
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 03:17:08 AM
Could be like the Sacrifice comic for example.  No direct link to any film character or event.  Not even the Company rates a mention
To be fair, doesn't Sacrifice reference the infestation of Earth?

Yup, it does. One of my favorite stories too btw, its moody

predxeno

predxeno

#220
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 08:45:57 AM
That's not ironic.

So what have you got against A:CM continuity-wise?

SM

SM

#221
QuoteYup, it does. One of my favorite stories too btw, its moody

Alien infestation of Earth has nothing to do with any of the films.  Which was my point.

I recently re-read Sacrifice, and with a hefty suspension of disbelief, it's very good.  Artwork is fantastic, as is most of the writiing.

QuoteSo what have you got against A:CM continuity-wise?

Everything.  None of it fits with the films or indeed, other EU material.

Xenomrph

Xenomrph

#222
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
QuoteYup, it does. One of my favorite stories too btw, its moody

Alien infestation of Earth has nothing to do with any of the films.  Which was my point.
Your post seemed to imply it didn't reference the events of anything, my mistake.

Edit-- re-reading your post, I see you said "film character or event", I must have missed the word film. My bad.

Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
QuoteSo what have you got against A:CM continuity-wise?

Everything.  None of it fits with the films or indeed, other EU material.
Yeah that's some pretty hefty hyperbole right there.

predxeno

predxeno

#223
Quote from: SM on Oct 31, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
QuoteSo what have you got against A:CM continuity-wise?

Everything.  None of it fits with the films or indeed, other EU material.

Could you elaborate a bit more?

SM

SM

#224
srsly?

- Hadley and the AP were vapourised.
- Hicks is dead.
- The Hicks they wake up in SI is fully clothed, yet the guy who comically gets punched into his tube is dressed like Hicks was at the end of Aliens (boxers and bandages).
- The Sulaco and colony are riddled with mistakes compared to the film.
- The recreation of the end of Alien3 also has a number of mistakes.
- People wake up with huggers on their faces, rather than the hugger crawling off to die.
- Hicks wakes up in his tube, instead of the tube opening and then him waking up.
- Hicks armour is able to teleport from the colony and repair itself.
- You don't open a locked door by running a welder along where the doors meet - you melt the lock.
- The Sephora intercepted the Sulaco about 3 months before the game started, and the Sulaco had a giant hole blown in it's lower forward hull and was sent spinning off into space, a couple of weeks or so later.
- The comic attached to A:CM shows that the Sephora was swarming with Aliens and WY commandos just prior to the events in the game.

Not everything is the same level of stupid of course (the door and welder thing is forgiveable for instance), but there you go.

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News