QuoteDuring an interview with the Empire podcast to promote Blade Runner 2049, Scott briefly laid out where he sees the next movie going. Covenant implied David is actually the one responsible for creating the Alien in the first place, so the next story would explore what a world designed by a crazed A.I. will look like.
"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.'s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one."
http://screenrant.com/alien-covenant-sequel-fassbender-david-details/
Empire podcast: https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/283-ridley-scott-denis-villeneuve
So I guess this confirms a sequel?
Hard to say. Everything is up to Fox. Maybe they have already made their decision and we just don't know yet.
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 06, 2017, 06:42:24 PM
QuoteDuring an interview with the Empire podcast to promote Blade Runner 2049, Scott briefly laid out where he sees the next movie going. Covenant implied David is actually the one responsible for creating the Alien in the first place, so the next story would explore what a world designed by a crazed A.I. will look like.
"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.'s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one."
http://screenrant.com/alien-covenant-sequel-fassbender-david-details/
Empire podcast: https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/283-ridley-scott-denis-villeneuve
I guess if it gets made, with what's being mentioned previously of
Awakening's plot, it seems that Origae 6 becomes the Alien home world with David as its King and whatever colonists are left become his slaves while the Engineers with Walter come in lay waste of the planet. I'd watch it. Though, that's going ask of a budget that Fox is not going to give him.
I'd say hand over the reigns to Denis Villeneuve and keep Scott as producer. Villeneuve will ask for the script to be fine tuned and made more personal to his liking, and with that trimming the budget. From what I read it worked for
Blade Runner 2049 Though, Who knows. It's all speculation at this point.
This has the potential to veer off and do its own thing while leaving the integrity of Alien alive. Basically if this doesn't set up the original film then it could be a winner. Have the crew of the Nostromo rediscover the deep space terror.
In the podcast Scott said that Prometheus made 460 millions. According to Box Office Mojo and The Numbers it made 403 and 402 respectively. Probably Scott knows more than we do or he just simply made mistake or maybe he added DVD/Blu-Ray sales?
Well this seems to me like he's all over the place.
Not sure Ridley needs to direct the next one anymore.
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 06, 2017, 08:27:53 PM
In the podcast Scott said that Prometheus made 460 millions. According to Box Office Mojo and The Numbers it made 403 and 402 respectively. Probably Scott knows more than we do or he just simply made mistake or maybe he added DVD/Blu-Ray sales?
I think he added DVD/Blu-Ray sales. As stated by the-numbers.com "Prometheus" did $43,935,407 in US.
what is even going on anymore
What's going on is that the theater business is changing and cheaper to make movies targeting well defined fan bases are in. No matter which way you cut it, people are less likely to see a movie in the theater. Plus most expensive movies are expensive because of licensing, facial recognition or an over abundance of cgi. However the A-list in itself doesn't draw butts into the seats like they did just a decade ago, which was already declining as it was. Fox owns the Alien and choosing to focus on just one necessary actor is well with in anyone's budget. Also alien stuff is fairly easy to engineer in an computer if we're being honest. Old school props and sets also fit nicely into a budget.
I wasn't thinking that the Alien home world was created right before Alien but considering how fast they grow... ah f**k it; I'll bite.
if he killed again good character like Daniels i will be angry :'(
Just what we need, a third Alien film with Aliens hardly a part of it.
Quote from: whiterabbit on Oct 06, 2017, 09:21:10 PM
Fox owns the Alien and choosing to focus on just one necessary actor is well with in anyone's budget. Also alien stuff is fairly easy to engineer in an computer if we're being honest. Old school props and sets also fit nicely into a budget.
I wasn't thinking that the Alien home world was created right before Alien but considering how fast they grow... ah f**k it; I'll bite.
Exactly. Old Props and sets can help Ridley keep his vision if he wants to do the War of the Worlds without any CGI and just use scale models, matte paintings etc. I'm just like f$%^ it, let him finish his vision and move on.
Quote from: Mateusz on Oct 06, 2017, 09:27:02 PM
if he killed again good character like Daniels i will be angry :'(
Either she's killed off like poor Elizabeth or becomes one of David's slaves if were going with David being the head of this planet.
no...just please no
Just because your handling of the xenomorph was poor doesn't mean its run its course, Ridley.
How about just tell a great story. After Prometheus it was "focus on the aliens", after Covenant it's now "focus on the androids".
How about craft a great story? Stop trying to focus on one component! If it's got tons of aliens in it but it's good, then so be it.
Prometheus' problem wasn't a lack of aliens, and Covenant's problem wasn't the inclusion of aliens(although Big Chap being tacked on at the end felt rote and uninspired; the weakest part of the film).
So it's Apocalypse Now in space.
I love the smell of corn bread in the morning.
Sounds good to me.
The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one – Covenant 2"
So we're going full on Biomechanics, in the next film. (according to the crew behind Covenant). ´
David will transcend his human creators and become something utterly alien to us.
Gimme a full on Biomech planet, ridley.
GIMME!
(Also looking forward to the return of proper biomech Aliuns) :)
Would be cool if David creates his own bio-mechanical structure based on Engineer technology he picked up. Along with several creatures.
Bring it on, Covenant was great.
Hope this doesn't mean that we won't see Xenomorphs at all though.
He said "nearly" over so I'm guessing one more evolution. Maybe the alien we saw on the Nostromo?
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
Given the themes Ridley has been interested in tackling as of late with Prometheus, Covenant, and 2049 this news doesn't shock me in the slightest, but I find it incredibly exciting. I really hope that all of this come into fruition.
Doesn't sound all that bad, but then neither did Shaw and David going to paradise.
I am not loving this route.
The Engineers/Gods created us > we create AI > we find our creators they want to kills us > our creation(s) > want to kill us. It's become too much of an Ancient Aliens episode.
I have enjoyed Prometheus and Alien: Covenant but not for the Alien prequel vibe. Some interesting concepts that should have never involved the Alien franchise imho. Scott should have just kept it a separate movie trilogy about the creation and destruction of life and the creation and destruction of AI and what it all philosophically means.
I don't like at all how it is going to tie in with the scenes of the Nostromo crew crawling all over a massive fossilized creature/ETin the derelict and then get infected with the Alien knowing David was behind some of it if not all of it.
I am going to have to agree with one reviewer that said Scott's Alien prequels are doing to Alien what Lucas' prequels did with Star Wars. I happen to be a huge fanboy of both franchises and can appreciate aspects of both prequel trilogies but am critical about how certain story points are being handled. David = Alien and Midichlorians=Force being two glaring examples.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 06, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
Same here.
I was hoping the Engineer planet was going to look like the Harkonnen Planet in Dune. Can that still happen, sure.
I am getting the feeling that Scott is using the Alien brand/franchise to sell and tell a totally different story, that may have been told more effectively without the "Alien,"
Color me intrigued.
I'm wondering how Daniels will play into all of this. Ridley said in one of the podcasts he did a few months ago that he didn't want to use her again, but he's contractually obligated to bring Katherine Waterston back. I haven't been able to find it again, but I could have sworn I heard him say that.
Hmmn. Not sure what to think.
Btw just saw Blade Runner 2049 and thought it was pretty dull. Too long and boring. Ryan Gosling was excellent though, but the film needed to be tightened a bit. So not going along with this Dennis Villeneuve is a genius idea.
We all know that whatever happens in the next Alien film we need to know what caused LV426 ship and eggs.... and also we need to see the xenomorph gain its biomechanical attributes.... via David?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Dammit.
This guy is crazy.-The words of Hudson. This obsession with David is disturbing because his wife looks at him with disgust. He hates strong women, kills them, but he wants to further explore David. When Blade 2049 fails, I hope fox gets rid of this nut job. He must hate Sigourney Weaver for her success. If we are lucky, his current wife dumps him causing to die.
PS. I hate Michael F, as Magnet, What does he do get his roles-makes you wonder!!!!!
I think that we'lll see the bio mechanic and more intelligent aliens after the transition of facehugger + engineer = the bio mechanic alien we all know.
I am so excited.
Quote from: Marcus9000 on Oct 07, 2017, 01:19:52 AM
Hmmn. Not sure what to think.
Btw just saw Blade Runner 2049 and thought it was pretty dull. Too long and boring. Ryan Gosling was excellent though, but the film needed to be tightened a bit. So not going along with this Dennis Villeneuve is a genius idea.
We all know that whatever happens in the next Alien film we need to know what caused LV426 ship and eggs.... and also we need to see the xenomorph gain its biomechanical attributes.... via David?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I agree. Denis Villeneuve is a little Overrated.
Quote from: necrotard on Oct 07, 2017, 04:29:39 AM
I am so excited.
And you just can't hide it.
Quote from: Abdool on Oct 07, 2017, 05:38:46 AM
Off topic but that microphone setup used to interview Ridley Scott should be retired. I spent a lot of energy trying to ignore all the wierd breathing noises and block out that tapping and scrapping as the interviewer shifted from one butt cheek to another. OK, I feel better now that I've let all that anxiety out. Get a SHURE SM58, you'll never regret it.
True. You'd think they'd check it before uploading or ask a second opinion.
There's this Dan O' Bannon interview online and the interviewer added background music to it. Freakin' annoying.
He's going in the wrong direction. The beast isn't "cooked", it was simply mishandled.
Hell yeah! Let's see how David reign in hell and who can stop him or ally with him.
This franchise has finally gone full circle and returned to the B movie schlock it got away from 38 years ago. I don't care what Scott does in this sequel of his, I will definitely not be visiting the cinemas to see it. The prequels have killed any desire I had for future Alien films.
With films like Blade Runner 2049 reminding us all how proper sequels should be made, there's absolutely nothing to justify these Lucas 2.0 disasters. I hope this Covenant sequel flops, so it can truly reign in hell, as Scott intended.
Beyond ridiculous....
So the Engineers will get revenge on David? Interesting. Especially since the xenomorphs may barely appear at all... now I'm just confused. 😋
Quote from: Martin morris on Oct 07, 2017, 02:03:10 AM
This guy is crazy.-The words of Hudson. This obsession with David is disturbing because his wife looks at him with disgust. He hates strong women, kills them, but he wants to further explore David. When Blade 2049 fails, I hope fox gets rid of this nut job. He must hate Sigourney Weaver for her success. If we are lucky, his current wife dumps him causing to die.
PS. I hate Michael F, as Magnet, What does he do get his roles-makes you wonder!!!!!
Not really. I guess people think he's a good actor.
And Blade Runner is receiving critical acclaim so far.
Having watched BR2049 all I can think is thank god ridley scott didn't direct it. Both BR and its sequel are definitive interpretations of their respective storylines about artificial intelligence.
How and what made Ridley go in the direction of artificial intelligence being the driving force behind Alien is beyond me. He really has gone full on George Lucas with Prometheus and Covenant.
Much like the Phantom Menace when I lied to myself that subsequent Star Wars prequels would improve. I feel that Ridleys involvement and revisit to the original franchise has now run its course.
Whatever conclusion he reaches with a third film is completely mooted by this point. It's nothing short of f***ked.
I remember a time when you could just forget about Alien Ressurection existing in order to appreciate the first 3 entries. Regardless of their highs and lows.
All we are left with now when seeing LV426 on screen is thinking Michael Fassbender is potentially running around somewhere in bare feet, with a flute singing the Man who broke the bank of Monte Carlo.
He only has won 51 awards and 104 nominations for his acting. Must be a shit actor. :P
I'm cautiously optimistic of this final prequel which will cap the trilogy and lead into Alien
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 06, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
David was last seen getting far away from Origae 6.
My bet is that he's going back to LV223 (where there's a lot of engineer facilities, black goo, old spaceships that he can use).
But yeah, i'm looking forward to proper biomechanical ALIENS in the next film. Bring it. :)
David was last seen in the film heading to Origae-6.
In Advent, however, he's a couple of light years the other side of Zeta 2 Reticuli.
Yeah.
Had a brainfart.
I was confusing "paradise" with Origae-6.
DOH.
So this is another left turn?
This is his off-the-cuff thinking about Covenant 2 in this moment. He hasn't shed new light. We already know that Fassbender's android is the only character that matters to him. We already know Scott is tired of / bored with his iconic monster. None of this is news. Why do you think he handled the alien the way he did in Covenant? I think it's because Fox insisted he include it And he included it, but he showed it no love. It was rushed and by the numbers. It came across as an interruption of the David story, a retread of the original with none of the original's wonder, suspense or dread.
I thought Ridley was having way too much fun with the Aliens and Neomorphs, tbh.
The freedom given to him by cgi made him go a bit
"oooh and we're gonna do this and that and then
the Alien's gonna do THISS. It's gonna be awesome!"
The Alien was doing a lot of cool, actiony things....
There's some great shots of it in Covenant
where the camera is really showing the creature some love.
The problem is that the Alien never did any cool actually spooky things.
Ridley's biggest complaint about Alien Resurrection was that the Xeno was put in a cage.
That's a straight up "fanboi" complaint.
Quote from: skhellter on Oct 07, 2017, 01:32:28 PM
The Alien was doing a lot of cool, actiony things....
There's some great shots of it in the film
where the camera is really showing the creature some love.
The problem is that the Alien never did any cool actually spooky things.
The problem is, the creature was never actually a threat. Daniels summarily executed both of them in less time and with less thought or planning than it takes to cook a meal. And the newborn xeno. So ridiculous!
The xeno's being dispatched way too easily by Daniels is a flaw of the writing.
and Scott isnt an auteur nor a super skilled storyteller. Man aint perfect.
But Ridley did show enough love via the way he directed the xenoaction.
It WAS cool action.
Although... you can definitely do some fanwanks (i did at least :laugh:)
and say this was all due to the xeno just being a prototype at that stage..
which was true.. but doesnt excuse it entirely.
And i like the Newborn Xeno. ;D
That one IS meant to be a weirdly-cute scene and it succeeds (much to the annoyance of some people.)
Haters gonna hate.
Quote from: skhellter on Oct 07, 2017, 01:58:20 PM
The xeno's being dispatched way too easily by Daniels is a flaw of the writing.
and Scott isnt an auteur nor a super skilled storyteller. Man aint perfect.
But Ridley did show enough love via the way he directed the xenoaction.
It WAS cool action.
Although... you can definitely do some fanwanks (i did at least :laugh:)
and say this was all due to the xeno just being a prototype at that stage..
which was true.. but doesnt excuse it entirely.
And i like the Newborn Xeno. ;D
That one IS meant to be a weirdly-cute scene and it succeeds (much to the annoyance of some people.)
Haters gonna hate.
Since Scott was in control of the writing, I 'm not buying the argument. Fanwanks are irrelevant. Weirdly cute has no place in an Alien movie. It was beautiful garbage, but garbage all the same. Namecalling means it's time to cease discussion with you. We're agreeing to disagree.
what name calling?
wut.
What frustrates me is how easily the creature is dispatched in Covenant. Two creatures fairly quickly taken care off. Daniels isnt even all that afraid of the alien. The so called perfect organism is made to look A LOT less perfect in comparison to a human. Arguably David is the perfect organism. I still like covenant, but this aspect does irk me somewhat. Especially as I grew up thinking the alien was almost completely indestructible.
One aspect of the problem is that the film portrays the
Neomorph fairly well as a fierce creature...
and the Xenomorph ends up playing second fiddle.
I dont think the writers balanced the need to have the Xeno do "cool spooky, fearsome stuff"
with the need to have Daniels grow into a proper hero (finally using her climbing skills and athleticism that is only alluded to in the first act).
A better version of the film would just have Daniels using her skills to "barely survive" the encounters with the xeno.
Also. There should only have been 1 Xeno. Killing Lope offscreen was weak.
How recent is this?
Yeah, whatever. Brace yourselves for the fleshy biomechanoid who is totally cooked. ::)
Just let's get it over with, so we finally can have a REAL alien movie in maybe 2028
Damn, will I be still alive then? ::)
Quote from: Martin morris on Oct 07, 2017, 02:03:10 AM
This guy is crazy.-The words of Hudson. This obsession with David is disturbing because his wife looks at him with disgust. He hates strong women, kills them, but he wants to further explore David. When Blade 2049 fails, I hope fox gets rid of this nut job. He must hate Sigourney Weaver for her success. If we are lucky, his current wife dumps him causing to die.
PS. I hate Michael F, as Magnet, What does he do get his roles-makes you wonder!!!!!
This made me laugh way more than I should.
Quote from: Marcus9000 on Oct 07, 2017, 01:19:52 AM
We all know that whatever happens in the next Alien film we need to know what caused LV426 ship and eggs....
No, we really don't.
I agree, I don't want them to touch the mystery behind the derelict.
Ridley still don't get that we don't give a crap about David... or at least I don't give a crap ::)
urrgh....just stop, Ridley.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 06, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
This^^^^ Fuk yeah man. It would be such a wasted opportunity to never see this.
Also there is no way to achieve such a thing with practical sets, so that sorta already makes the film more affordable to make.
A solely digitally realised Giger planet within a ~100mio project? I think i can do without.
(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b27f00c6dee324fe4de079f37dd08edb)
On Bladerunner: "the main character is a replicant! I don't care if it ruins the story and everyone involved disagreed with me!"
On Alien Covenant 2: "we need to what we did before and do it 100 times bigger!"
George Lucas v2.0
Quote from: Ingwar on Oct 06, 2017, 06:42:24 PM
QuoteDuring an interview with the Empire podcast to promote Blade Runner 2049, Scott briefly laid out where he sees the next movie going. Covenant implied David is actually the one responsible for creating the Alien in the first place, so the next story would explore what a world designed by a crazed A.I. will look like.
"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.'s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one."
http://screenrant.com/alien-covenant-sequel-fassbender-david-details/
Empire podcast: https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/283-ridley-scott-denis-villeneuve
I'm all for the sequel exploring David's character and the implications of artificial intelligence more. It's what differentiated Covenant from the other ALIEN films.
We already got a Giger planet in Alien. Yes, Giger himself designed the planet.
I don't think we'll get a Giger planet because:
1. Giger has passed
2. Already done in Alien
3. Too expensive
Ridley likes to shoot on location, so it'll probably be another planet like LV-223 or Planet 4.
I think one sweet bio-mechanical building in an Earth-like setting would suffice.
It would stand more and would have more of an impact than an entire planet.
A Giger-esque version of Cybertron would cool from space but exploring it seems a little monotone too me.
Quote"I think the evolution of the Alien himself is nearly over, but what I was trying to do was transcend and move to another story, which would be taken over by A.I.'s. The world that the AI might create as a leader if he finds himself on a new planet. We have actually quite a big layout for the next one."
"Rimmer's World" or should I say David's World.
Make it all a bad dream
Is this going to be his next movie then.
His next movie is likely The Cartel, then perhaps Covenant 2
All I want to see in the next film is someone, anyone properly LAND an Engineer ship!
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 08, 2017, 10:59:05 PM
All I want to see in the next film is someone, anyone properly LAND an Engineer ship!
You can see David docking upon arrival during the flashback in Covenant. ;D
I don't know.
I love ALIEN, PROMETHEUS and ALIEN: COVENANT.
But I'm more excited for the other films of Ridley Scott: ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD, BATTLE OF BRITAIN, etc....
Maybe Ridley is only Producing. He isn't interested in Aliens. He prefers Androids and Replicants.
David, Walter, and Gordon identical android three-way confirmed! :D
At this point, if the franchise is going to get rebooted, have Ripley 8 fight David on Origae 6. I would legitimately like that.
I would like to see another female android like Call. Maybe call her 'Eve'..
A.F.A.I.K. Alien: Covenant had less budget than Prometheus... ::)
Covenant grossed a worldwide total of $240 million against a production budget of $97 million.
It wasn't a hit, but neither a flop...
May as well rename the series to David instead of Aliens lol
David: Resurrection
David 3
Davids's
David Covenant.
Great Actor and he plays a interesting character.. But damn... The entire Prequel Trilogy went into all about androids.
I personally like the idea of following David instead of a human character. Instead of seeing a hero progress through the stories we follow a villain and hopefully we get to see David's downfall.
Quote from: Guts on Oct 09, 2017, 03:12:51 PM
David: Resurrection
David 3
Davids's
David Covenant.
Ripley
Ripley 2
Ripley 3
Ripley Resurrection.
Quadrilogy was all about the hoomans fighting the xenos.
I'm ok with David being the new "Lead" of the series.
I will only ever look on this storyline's use of the Xenomorph, Space Jockey, Juggernaut etc. as being a kind of unrelated 'fan fiction' version of the source material compared to what was seen in ALIEN...but I truly hope that Ridley ends up getting the budget to round off this trilogy in the way he wishes.
It didn't turn out to be the kind of 'prequel' storyline I hoped for, but I'll still look forward to Ridley's lush visuals where his conclusion to this David/Engineers 're-imagining' is concerned.
...and then I'll look forward to seeing whatever the next director does with this franchise. :P
You can focus on AI, but there still could be some Aliens in the next movie, I dont get why most of the peple see this as a main problem. . David experimentation (perhaps on Daniels or other colonists) will produce once again a new kind of various creatures, of course there would be some Aliens in it, why these two little facehugger embryos would be even there, if we dont have any creature in the next film, huh? Jesus, use your brains guys! I love androids from Alien series since the first bloody encounter with Ash, you know. The Ash decapitated head, white blood and all this mess stuff. But the Bishop is my most favourite character at all, especially because he was super good "person". . and I love him as an actor, but since these two Androids. . I never actually thinking about how they are important for the whole Alien universe. And now I found that, that they are very important. Just think about it, we know almost nothing about human civilization in these movies, we know that humans can colonize the other planets or moons, produce some huge spaceships and vehicles, than we have our so called evil company the Weyland-Yutani, some colonial marines and thats all. . another, last and most interesting fact is, that humans can create the artifical life, and I think that, this is very important aspect of these movies, its like a cherry on top of the cake. Of course there are mainly Aliens we all like the most, but in the terms of the humans, the Androids are specials. So, Im glad that we can have some focus on David, not only because he is a villain. . but because he is the Android, and not just a regular android. Oh, and by the way. . we have AI in almost every Alien film, if not the androids, than there was also computers like "father" in Alien Ressurection, or mother from first movie. So AI is fairly common in Alien series, just dont forget that David is the main plot device for the whole experiment around the black goo etc. There is no human that can do the exact same stuff like David did in Alien Covenant, it will kill all humans that came in contact with it. Like it or not, we need the David, at least for this third part. And I dont have anything against it.
I would say all the sequels to A L I E N are just glorified fan fiction.
Even Aliens. Yes, even Aliens.
Especially Aliens.
Don't cut yourself there, Edgy.
And don't cut yourself on your sharp wit. :)
Quote from: Scorpio on Oct 10, 2017, 12:05:19 AM
I would say all the sequels to A L I E N are just glorified fan fiction.
Even Aliens. Yes, even Aliens.
Especially Aliens.
I disagree. The only really bad movies are the 2 AvP movies. I liked all of the others. Even Resurrection.
That's interesting because I think both AVP films are more watchable than Alien 3 and Resurrection.
This guy sums up my views on Alien Resurrection:
Quote from: RidgeTop on Oct 06, 2017, 09:32:09 PM
Just what we need, a third Alien film with Aliens hardly a part of it.
Honestly, I would have just preferred Prometheus 2: Covenant or Neomorph Covenant. I don't have any issues with films set in the Alien universe exploring other aspects of it, just don't shoehorn the Alien in like they did with Covenant. That's when the film went downhill for me.
Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Oct 06, 2017, 10:06:28 PM
Just because your handling of the xenomorph was poor doesn't mean its run its course, Ridley.
I really do think it's time for his involvement to be reduced. His so-so's outnumber his good Alien films now.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Oct 06, 2017, 10:46:02 PM
Would be cool if David creates his own bio-mechanical structure based on Engineer technology he picked up. Along with several creatures.
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 06, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
As much as I'm desperate to see a return to a larger scale version of this asthetic, I'd hate for more "alien" stuff to become a product of mankind.
Quote from: SM on Oct 07, 2017, 12:11:55 PM
In Advent, however, he's a couple of light years the other side of Zeta 2 Reticuli.
Did Advent show spatial co-ordinates?
The problem for me has always been that Alien and Aliens (by far the only two movies of any real quality), are both very small films. The "universe" doesn't lend itself to the grand themes and ideas they are now trying to explore. The fit feels forced and unnatural.
QuoteDid Advent show spatial co-ordinates?
Clicky (https://alientimeline.wordpress.com/2017/10/01/update-2017-october-1/)
Cool! Thanks. :) Love the nod to Isolation.
I do like that Scott is widening the goal posts but there is only so much widening you can do before it's not really an Alien film, and seeing as that's what we're all here for....
I loved the note Covenant finished on and ideally a direct continuation of that would be cool - but at the same time, Ridley changes his mind so bloody often and his disappointing portrayal of the xenomorph in Covenant kinda has me hoping the baton is passed onto someone fresh.
Ridley can change his mind like every other director. Problem is, that people and fans especially are taking his words always too seriously. It would be much better if he doesnt say anything, he is super monitored for everything he says, but guess what? There are tons of directors that also change their minds, but the difference is that they dont say it in front of camera or in some discussion.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised, or object to, a reboot of sorts that essentially tells the same story as the original but with different characters
I do really enjoy Prometheus and Covenant and I am all for Ridley furthering his prequel story but essentually everyone wants the alien, so why not give it to them 20th Century Fox?
Why not do both?
RIDLEY MAKE YER SHINY SMART MOOVEE, AND THEN FOX CAN GO 'N MAKE A GOOEY TOOTHY MOOVEEEE CUZ THEY GOTTA BE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIIIIIVE.
Prometheus had it right and almost succeeded. We all want a movie that engages the mind, but we also want to see shit blow up and some gore.
I just hope in the next movie we find out that David recreated the Xenomorph. The Xenomorph, we know, being a forbidden weapon that has not been used or allowed to be used for thousands of years (Alien 1 Derelict) resulting in the complete extermination of David and any loose ends.
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 11, 2017, 01:10:58 AM
I just hope in the next movie we find out that David recreated the Xenomorph.
Such a horrible idea that screams of fan angst. No thank you.
Its more logical than finding out that David created the "perfect organism".
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 11, 2017, 01:34:36 AM
Its more logical than finding out that David created the "perfect organism".
I don't understand how it's logical.
What would be the narrative point in seeing an android recreate something that was already created? The point prequels is usually to show origins, not just make up safe stuff that won't upset any fans that happens to take place before the other movies.
The original Alien background was simple. Cosmic ancient terror from beyond the stars or simply Lovecraftian. With setting the creation of the Xenomorph from ???? to Alien Covenant reduces that sense of unknowing that causes us to fear it. Making David the creator retcons the older movies and diminishes the creature.
The original background was that it would slaughter all and sundry then settle down and become a highly intelligent being once its infant bloodlust was sated.
Was that Dan O'Bannon that came up with that idea? I meant within the context of the original movie and the themes that played out.
Well, there it is. I wish Ridley would have taken the A.I. road toward the Blade Runner universe instead, and allowed somebody else to take the Alien franchise in a direction similar to either of the first two films. Granted, we wouldn't have Prometheus, but I think it would've improved both franchises. Finishing what you started sounds good, but making a good movie is more important.
Quote from: Huggs on Oct 11, 2017, 06:25:46 AM
Well, there it is. I wish Ridley would have taken the A.I. road toward the Blade Runner universe instead, and allowed somebody else to take the Alien franchise in a direction similar to either of the first two films. Granted, we wouldn't have Prometheus, but I think it would've improved both franchises. Finishing what you started sounds good, but making a good movie is more important.
Alien universe has androids, so A.I. is logical. Blade Runner universe has replicants, so A.I. would be illogical. If anything, Blade Runner is about A.H. (artificial humanity).
Quote from: Rudiger on Oct 11, 2017, 07:35:16 AM
Alien universe has androids, so A.I. is logical. Blade Runner universe has replicants, so A.I. would be illogical. If anything, Blade Runner is about A.H. (artificial humanity).
The androids in the Alien universe prefer the term "artificial person". As the saying goes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20B4Dvk_9cY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20B4Dvk_9cY)
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Oct 11, 2017, 09:38:45 AM
The androids in the Alien universe prefer the term "artificial person".
;D Good catch. I'm hanging my head in shame.
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 11, 2017, 06:14:26 AM
Was that Dan O'Bannon that came up with that idea? I meant within the context of the original movie and the themes that played out.
a) Dan O'Bannon's Original Alien
The facehugger soon dies and falls off the host, the inseminated creature, an animal comparable to a cow is led off to an enclosure somewhere to await the birth and the foetus develops inside.
The host is just an incubator for the things that will ultimately emerge, eventually chewing its way out and killing its host.
The creature, known as the chestburster is the Alien's second stage, and it simply runs about eating, mindlessly carnivorous.
It's tremendously hungry and needs to reproduce.
But at this stage, the creature is still controlled and nurtured by adult aliens. It grows to maturity with incredible speed, until the chestburster begins losing appendages and becomes more and more harmless.
Finally, its bloodlust gone, the Alien becomes a mild, intelligent creature, capable of art and architecture, which lives a full , scholarly life of 200 years.
http://alienexplorations.blogspot.be/2009/06/e-facehugger-to-adult.html
I dont know what to think at this point, just no more missing footage please
Quote from: Naissus on Oct 11, 2017, 05:52:19 AM
The original Alien background was simple. Cosmic ancient terror from beyond the stars or simply Lovecraftian. With setting the creation of the Xenomorph from ???? to Alien Covenant reduces that sense of unknowing that causes us to fear it. Making David the creator retcons the older movies and diminishes the creature.
Well then I guess I've been watching these movies wrong for the past 20 years, because not knowing where the aliens came from never made them scarier to me. The body horror elements and ferocity of the creatures made them scary. That's still there no matter where they came from.
And I don't see how David being the creator retcons anything. All it retcons is what we assumed to be true, not what the movies actually presented as true.
Yep (the as yet unknown origin of the Derelict notwithstanding).
I never bought the derelict housed the massive chamber with the eggs. I always liked the theory of a facility under the ship. With that being said, it still could have housed the black goo like the ship in Covenant. The beacon is still active, warning of the goo, not eggs. I believe that David finds the crashed/landed ship and proceeds to transform the colonists on the Covenant into eggs or creates eggs from them. With a facility underneath, he stores them and waits for a passing ship. Just a thought.
If Alien takes place less than two decades after Covenant, the I wonder what a film that bridges the two will contain, unless the plan is not to do so.
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 11, 2017, 10:52:02 PM
I never bought the derelict housed the massive chamber with the eggs. I always liked the theory of a facility under the ship. With that being said, it still could have housed the black goo like the ship in Covenant. The beacon is still active, warning of the goo, not eggs. I believe that David finds the crashed/landed ship and proceeds to transform the colonists on the Covenant into eggs or creates eggs from them. With a facility underneath, he stores them and waits for a passing ship. Just a thought.
Interesting thought...so what if it crashes due to a black goo creature bursting out of the Engineer rather than an Alien? I think I could take that over it being David or other new human character.
If the obvious size difference between Dallas and the space jockey isn't retained, then it's a flat out fail in my book.
You mean the difference in Alien between actors and scale doubles depending on the shot?
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 11, 2017, 10:52:02 PM
I never bought the derelict housed the massive chamber with the eggs. I always liked the theory of a facility under the ship. With that being said, it still could have housed the black goo like the ship in Covenant. The beacon is still active, warning of the goo, not eggs. I believe that David finds the crashed/landed ship and proceeds to transform the colonists on the Covenant into eggs or creates eggs from them. With a facility underneath, he stores them and waits for a passing ship. Just a thought.
That could very well be the case and makes sense. After
A:C but before
Alien:
David finds a planetoid (LV-426) close enough to another engineer world (either homeworld or a planet colonised by them) to lure others to his location. David buries the Covenant just below the surface and sends out a distress beacon to lure said ships onto the planetoid. He spends roughly ten or so years using the embryos and colonists on the Covenant for his experimentation, creating eggs out of most of them. An Engineer ship comes along and lands on the planet. David tests his handiwork; maybe on the engineers, maybe on Daniels and Tennessee, maybe on both. Due to unforeseen events, he eventually gets his back pushed against a wall and has seemingly no way out. He dons a space engineer suit, absorbs some black goo, and grows to roughly 20 times his size (the black goo can apparently do anything in this universe, so why the hell not?). With his superior strength, he kills anyone and everyone who stands in his way, but in one last ditch effort, the final survivor tricks him into getting facehugged. He wakes up some time later but scoffs as he believes he's immune to the facehugger's effects. However, due to the black goo, he's somehow developed DNA and is more or less a living organism capable of harboring an alien inside (as I said, the black goo is basically a writer's way to have anything happen, so why the hell not). He gets in the iconic chair and prepares to take off but a chestburster bursts from him. He makes some last words that are supposed to be poignant but make the audience roll their eyes. Fire breaks out somehow and chars his body and burns part of the ship, including the alien. The ship's distress beacon goes off automatically. In a post-credits scene, we see W-Y receive the signal and order their nearest cargo ship to investigate.
I know it reads like fanfic, but honestly, I don't imagine the next movie really deviating all that much from the above.
Quote from: SM on Oct 12, 2017, 09:54:20 AM
You mean the difference in Alien between actors and scale doubles depending on the shot?
I mean that the original space jockey is huge in relation to Dallas, Lambert and Kane, as well as David and the engineers we see in Prometheus. You can see that in the long shots and the close ups. If they don't stay faithful to that, they will have failed in my book.
As SM pointed out, Alien itself already 'failed' in that regard - the SJ's a lot smaller when Dallas and Lambert get right up next to it.
That said, I agree with you: keep the SJ/Engineer at Luke n' Jake scale, please!
Quote from: Mr. Clemens on Oct 12, 2017, 02:08:26 PM
As SM pointed out, Alien itself already 'failed' in that regard - the SJ's a lot smaller when Dallas and Lambert get right up next to it.
That said, I agree with you: keep the SJ/Engineer at Luke n' Jake scale, please!
Yeah, but there was no "sinister" intent. Didn't they use children dressed in space suits for the establishing shots to enhance the illusion, and then a different model for the close ups. All that means was that the scale was off. That's just a simple continuity mistake.
What's clear though is that the jockey is significantly larger than David (or an other human), as well as the engineers in Prometheus.
The scale was off because they used the same model for close-ups.
Where was there 'sinister intent' in any of the films?
Quote from: Jango1201 on Oct 11, 2017, 10:52:02 PMI never bought the derelict housed the massive chamber with the eggs. I always liked the theory of a facility under the ship.
Originally the egg chamber was in a separate building, belonging to aliens who once lived on the planet.
And the derelict belonged to other aliens who visited the planet and went to the building.
But it was too expensive so they merged the ideas.
The creators always said Alien is a b-movie with an a-movie budget.
Quote from: Rudiger on Oct 12, 2017, 10:59:25 AMI mean that the original space jockey is huge in relation to Dallas, Lambert and Kane, as well as David and the engineers we see in Prometheus. You can see that in the long shots and the close ups. If they don't stay faithful to that, they will have failed in my book.
It's easier to cast tall actors for Engineers, instead of using cgi to enlarge them.
It's cheaper to build sets suitable for those taller than the average human, but not giant-sized.
I'm sure if special effects were better and if money was no object, we had giant Engineers, giant ships, giant buildings,...
Why even think about size difference? The juggernaut in Alien has even much larger halls and rooms, there wasnt any stairs, hyper sleep chambers or control panel with green energy in it. Ridley needed Engineers smaller, because now its not some creatures inside some telescope device, but the actual human actors. The fact is, that Space Jockey has mouth, teeth and eyes. . Jesus its clear enough, it meant to be an extraterrestial animal looking creature. . maybe even without any legs, and not some white looking humanoid. Is it not evident? Original Space Jockey could be propably made by CGI, it should be much bigger than Engineers and it would be a challenge for whole creative team behind the film. :'(
Quote from: Petr Švancara on Oct 12, 2017, 10:26:58 PM
Why even think about size difference? The juggernaut in Alien has even much larger halls and rooms, there wasnt any stairs, hyper sleep chambers or control panel with green energy in it. Ridley needed Engineers smaller, because now its not some creatures inside some telescope device, but the actual human actors. The fact is, that Space Jockey has mouth, teeth and eyes. . Jesus its clear enough, it meant to be an extraterrestial animal looking creature. . maybe even without any legs, and not some white looking humanoid. Is it not evident? Original Space Jockey could be propably made by CGI, it should be much bigger than Engineers and it would be a challenge for whole creative team behind the film. :'(
Mhm.
The halls in the Derelict and both Juggernauts are much the same size.
I have been a fan of alien since the first movie came out but since I watched the latest movie I have given up on the series and gradually thrown away or sold everything alien related. What a disappointment, :( ??? ::)
If Scott didn't want to make another another movie, then why didn't he just make a completely different movie? Why sign on to the Alien franchise just to turn it into something else entirely?
Quote from: Ultramorph on Oct 06, 2017, 11:32:03 PM
If this means David turns Origae 6 into "Planet H.R. Giger Painting" I'm in.
Would you settle for Planet 'Dane Hallett et al'?
Quote from: SM on Oct 13, 2017, 06:06:11 AM
The halls in the Derelict and both Juggernauts are much the same size.
Isn't that because the two ships are identical?
Quote from: irn on Oct 07, 2017, 05:24:37 PM
Quote from: Marcus9000 on Oct 07, 2017, 01:19:52 AM
We all know that whatever happens in the next Alien film we need to know what caused LV426 ship and eggs....
No, we really don't.
I think it is a stick on we will find out.
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Quote from: Naissus on Oct 11, 2017, 01:10:58 AM
I just hope in the next movie we find out that David recreated the Xenomorph. The Xenomorph, we know, being a forbidden weapon that has not been used or allowed to be used for thousands of years (Alien 1 Derelict) resulting in the complete extermination of David and any loose ends.
That would be far more satisfying I think.
I want the alien universe to be widened not narrowed by humans or androids creating the xenomorph.
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I've never been happy about David being the creator of the xenomorphs. The franchise can still be fixed by reversing this. Alien 1979 held so much mysterious darkness, that I feel like that has been ruined by Alien Covenant.
Quote from: The Crusher on Oct 31, 2017, 02:09:23 PM
I've never been happy about David being the creator of the xenomorphs. The franchise can still be fixed by reversing this. Alien 1979 held so much mysterious darkness, that I feel like that has been ruined by Alien Covenant.
Totally agree. Some mysteries - like where the alien came from - should remain intact.
Personally, I still don't agree with that. I just think it's the direction that the prequels took their creation. If it'd have been some ancient tool of destruction created by some equally ancient and God-like race, I'd have been happy. Just not keen on it being a roundabout creation of mankind and made a decade or so before Alien.
Maybe they'll reboot the whole franchise.
I really hope not. I honestly don't mind something like a soft reboot like all the recent films have kind of been. Set in the same universe, out the way and doing their own thing. But you know, just something good.
Fox wouldn't do that, at least as long as Scott lives. I hope they finally realised (did they?) that muddling in franchise wasn't a good idea.
Quote from: Ingwar on Nov 02, 2017, 09:28:01 AM
Fox wouldn't do that, at least as long as Scott lives. I hope they finally realised (did they?) that muddling in franchise wasn't a good idea.
Fox execs have been "meddling" with the franchise since the very beginning. Some would argue that it's their job.
Quote from: Ingwar on Nov 02, 2017, 09:28:01 AM
Fox wouldn't do that, at least as long as Scott lives. I hope they finally realised (did they?) that muddling in franchise wasn't a good idea.
I have no doubt it'll eventually come down to a reboot eventually.
There is one fundamental error to this reasoning. Audiences didn't reject Scott's Engineer / David mythology. There's no evidence (the posts of some opinionated hardcore fans are anecdotal, at best).
Audiences just don't care for yet another chestbursting scene. It's more of the same. There are no surprises. The beast is cooked.
If Alien is to survive, it has to move even further into Prometheus territory.
There's no evidence that audiences want to go into more Prometheus territory either. That opinion is equally anecdotal.
Quote from: Kane's other son on Nov 02, 2017, 01:57:24 PM
There is one fundamental error to this reasoning. Audiences didn't reject Scott's Engineer / David mythology. There's no evidence (the posts of some opinionated hardcore fans are anecdotal, at best).
Other than the hard data documenting the film's nosedive at the box office on its second week, you mean:
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a829385/alien-covenant-drops-us-box-office-second-week/ (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a829385/alien-covenant-drops-us-box-office-second-week/)
Alien:Covenant's box office figures tell a very simple story: People gave it a chance on its first week, saw how terrible the film is, spread the word and doomed the film's box office chances.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
Alien:Covenant's box office figures tell a very simple story: People gave it a chance on its first week, saw how terrible the film is, spread the word and doomed the film's box office chances.
Precisely. None of this is rocket science.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 03:21:15 PM
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
Alien:Covenant's box office figures tell a very simple story: People gave it a chance on its first week, saw how terrible the film is, spread the word and doomed the film's box office chances.
Precisely. None of this is rocket science.
Not necessarily, the drop off may have happened anyway. I personally just don't think audiences have much of an appetite for sci-fi at the moment.
I cant think of any recent sci-fi movie that has been a BO success.
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Nov 02, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
I cant think of any recent sci-fi movie that has been a BO success.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens springs to mind...
And Rogue One but that's a different story. They're part of an absolutely massive franchise. Other scifis haven't fared as well recently. Life, Valerian, Blade Runner.
Arrival did pretty well on a modest budget.
True, true. I forgot about Arrival. Took in around the same amount as most scifi's seem to be recently - 200 million.
Blade Runner 2049 is actually a pretty good example to prove my point: The film might be a flop, but it is still in the domestic top 5 as far as box office is concerned, which tells me that while the film doesn't really have enough of an audience to turn a profit (shouldn't be much of a surprise if you ask me, considering that neither did the original), the people who do see it keep coming back for more. Hell, the film made more on its 4th week than Covenant did on its 2nd week, and Covenant had the stronger box office opening...
Quote from: Kane's other son on Nov 02, 2017, 01:57:24 PM
There is one fundamental error to this reasoning. Audiences didn't reject Scott's Engineer / David mythology. There's no evidence (the posts of some opinionated hardcore fans are anecdotal, at best).
Audiences just don't care for yet another chestbursting scene. It's more of the same. There are no surprises. The beast is cooked.
If Alien is to survive, it has to move even further into Prometheus territory.
No offence but that's just rubbish.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 02:35:40 PM
Quote from: Kane's other son on Nov 02, 2017, 01:57:24 PM
There is one fundamental error to this reasoning. Audiences didn't reject Scott's Engineer / David mythology. There's no evidence (the posts of some opinionated hardcore fans are anecdotal, at best).
Other than the hard data documenting the film's nosedive at the box office on its second week, you mean:
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a829385/alien-covenant-drops-us-box-office-second-week/ (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/alien/news/a829385/alien-covenant-drops-us-box-office-second-week/)
Alien:Covenant's box office figures tell a very simple story: People gave it a chance on its first week, saw how terrible the film is, spread the word and doomed the film's box office chances.
Absolutely this. Covenant was savaged by word of mouth. Lots of evidence to support this as well with its poor Cinemascore rating, negative Rotten Tomatoes audience score and a simple trawl through Twitter.
I don't think the beast is cooked, I just think Scott f**ked it.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 04:02:35 PMStar Wars: The Force Awakens springs to mind...
Star Wars is fantasy not sci-fi.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Nov 02, 2017, 05:00:10 PM
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 04:02:35 PMStar Wars: The Force Awakens springs to mind...
Star Wars is fantasy not sci-fi.
Robots, space ships, aliens, blasters, lightsabers, inter-galactic travel, dystopian society. Of course it's sci-fi.
Technically Star Wars is si-fi but we all know it's a ompletley different beast so isn't relevant to a discussion on sci fi BO in my opinion.
Arrival did well compared to budget but for bums on seats it didn't set the world alight even though it had glowing reviews.
Quote from: Jonesy1974 on Nov 02, 2017, 05:20:06 PM
Technically Star Wars is si-fi but we all know it's a ompletley different beast so isn't relevant to a discussion on sci fi BO in my opinion.
Arrival did well compared to budget but for bums on seats it didn't set the world alight even though it had glowing reviews.
So what you're really talking about is a niche market within the wider sci-fi genre.
I think sci fi is a niche market, at least at this moment in time. People don't seem to be too interested in going to see sci fi films regardless of word of mouth or reviews.
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 05:11:09 PMRobots, space ships, aliens, blasters, lightsabers, inter-galactic travel, dystopian society. Of course it's sci-fi.
Science-fiction:
fiction
based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets.
Almost everything in the movie is made to look cool all while throwing science out the window. It's grounded in fantasy.
With the addition of the force it's basically knights and wizards in space.
The movie even starts like some fairytale: "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away."
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Nov 02, 2017, 06:27:50 PM
Quote from: Rudiger on Nov 02, 2017, 05:11:09 PMRobots, space ships, aliens, blasters, lightsabers, inter-galactic travel, dystopian society. Of course it's sci-fi.
Science-fiction:
fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6Q8bpTaSH4/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://jamilnyc.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/star-destroyer.png)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/f/fd/Mos_Eisley.png/revision/latest?cb=20121208215412)
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fovermental.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F08%2FTempestForceEndor-ROTJ.png&hash=49256f050fe38793c9379c42daa126e6bad3bd68)
Did you read your own definition? What exactly happened there?
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 06:41:16 PMDid you read your own definition? What exactly happened there?
Did you read the rest of my post?
Or did you choose to ignore it in order to start another one of your delightful discussions?
I did. Nothing in your post changes the fact that the definition you yourself provided describes Star Wars to a tee, which is why your argument is so bizarre.
The Martian is another example of a sci-fi film doing really well, and perhaps serves to prove the point that it's not necessarily the genre, but rather how it's done, that fills seats.
Maybe people are tired of so many movie that depict ETs as wanting to kill us. Personally, I would love to see more realistic sci-fi films like The Martian, Interstellar, and even Contact.
The Martian is a good example, I'd forgotten about that one.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 07:24:05 PM
I did. Nothing in your post changes the fact that the definition you yourself provided describes Star Wars to a tee, which is why your argument is so bizarre.
If you leave out the magic of the force and the fact that the movie's set in the past and not in the future, sure.
I now see that you did not read your own definition to sci fi. If you had, you'd have seen that none of the things you just mentioned are relevant to said definition.
It's space opera. Fantasy hidden behind science fiction (more fiction than science) aesthetics.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 02, 2017, 07:38:10 PM
I now see that you did not read your own definition to sci fi. If you had, you'd have seen that none of the things you just mentioned are relevant to said definition.
You said my definition described Star Wars perfectly.
It doesn't, there's no mention of magic, meaning you're wrong.
Quote from: Ingwar on Nov 02, 2017, 09:06:20 PM
It's space opera. Fantasy hidden behind science fiction (more fiction than science) aesthetics.
Indeed. It may have fantasy elements but it's still science fiction. I'd find it odd that anyone would argue that it's not science-fiction. ???
It's a sci fi fantasy film. Films can be more than one thing, much like how Alien is a sci fi horror film and how Blade Runner is a cyberpunk film noir. It just looks so weird when someone uses this definition:
Science-fiction:
fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances (beam based weaponry, faster than light travel, spaceships, star-sized space stations) and major social or environmental changes (interaction with alien species, a universe controlled by an inter-galactic tyrannical empire), frequently portraying space or time travel (faster than light travel, space ships, death star) and life on other planets (Tatooine, Hoth, Endor, Naboo, Coruscant, Mustafar, Jakku).
And then not see how his definition works against his own argument.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 03, 2017, 09:23:19 AM
It's a sci fi fantasy film. Films can be more than one thing, much like how Alien is a sci fi horror film and how Blade Runner is a cyberpunk film noir.
Yeah, it's kinda both. Technically speaking it
"is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes space warfare, melodramatic adventure, interplanetary battles, chivalric romance, and risk-taking. (...)
Space opera is defined as an adventure science-fiction story."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera#cite_note-2
But whatever we call it I think the best way to describe
Star Wars is by calling it ...
Star Wars :).
The evolution of the Alien was already over in ALIENS..
And by making Prometheus and Covenant the whole mysterious feeling is gone...
its now just a simple sci fi movie with some man created beings going wild..lol
It's strange to see someone declare Star Wars does not reside within the SF genre, for me anyway. This happened a number of times in the old imdb forums, with members declaring it's strictly a fantasy film. When I suggested it is a space opera, a sub-genre of SF, that was like the old beating the beehive with a stick.
And like some here who already done, I scoured for various definitions of space opera. This actually turned into a site project I did awhile back - SF Subgenres A to Z, and I was quite surprised how deep that well ran.......http://www.scifimoviezone.com/scifisubgenres.shtml
Quote from: atlantis on Nov 08, 2017, 04:59:02 AM
The evolution of the Alien was already over in ALIENS..
The evolution was over by AVP you mean.
Unless you count the predalien but we already saw that in Alien 3.
Quote from: Scorpio on Nov 08, 2017, 07:21:30 AM
The evolution was over by AVP you mean.
Unless you count the predalien but we already saw that in Alien 3.
I endorse this point. I don't think Alien 3 should be excluded when discussing the evolution of Alien. There was no human intervention in the appearance of the dog-alien or ox-alien. Its physical variant was strictly generated by the creature itself. The yellow hybrid alien in Resurrection, not so much.
A:R should not be excluded either. Or the Newborn.
The only logical way to evolve the alien, without turning it into a kenner action figure, is having human intervention, creating a human/alien hybrid.
AR had plenty of potential - it seems to be the design they actually went with that people disagree with.
Quote from: Scorpio on Nov 08, 2017, 09:33:25 AM
A:R should not be excluded either. Or the Newborn.
The only logical way to evolve the alien, without turning it into a kenner action figure, is having human intervention, creating a human/alien hybrid.
I'm on the fence on Resurrection. That seemed more to me as cross breeding rather than the xeno's avenues of physical variants generated by the creature itself. Not unlike humans cross breeding the wolf until many generations later we have the domestic pets we know today, but the wolf itself has remain unchanged regarding any physical variants.
Now I realize that Scott is not using the term evolution in the scientific sense, I take it he's meaning the alien is over in the vein of cinematic/story telling evolution. That said, yea, I guess you do make a good point Resurrection should not be excluded.
You have to wonder how Rez would have been viewed by fans if the newborn was replaced with a kind of bad ass dome-less looking Alien. Something closer to the xeno, but different.
That and taking the weird tone out of the movie, it would have probably been quite good.
Quote from: Highland on Nov 08, 2017, 12:17:07 PM
You have to wonder how Rez would have been viewed by fans if the newborn was replaced with a kind of bad ass dome-less looking Alien. Something closer to the xeno, but different.
That and taking the weird tone out of the movie, it would have probably been quite good.
If the Newborn was simply replaced by some other type of alien, I don't think it would've changed much. I'm not a fan of its design, to say the least, but the main issue I had with it was how the Newborn was used. That whole sequence derails the film for me because of how absurd it is. I don't need a Queen with a human reproductive system (undermines the whole alien lifecycle) and I don't need the silly mother/son moments the Newborn had with Ripley. You could put the alien from the original film in there and it would've still been terrible. That's one of the reasons why I find the Oram chestbursting scene in Covenant so hilariously bad.
That said, if that whole part would've been replaced with the crew simply trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens, I think the movie could've been quite good. I have much less of an issue with the film as a whole than most people here. I am even fine with the weird tone. I still gladly watch it occasionally; I just turn it off once the Newborn shit starts.
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 08, 2017, 01:03:54 PM
That said, if that whole part would've been replaced with the crew simply trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens, I think the movie could've been quite good.
Not being a gamer, I actually enjoy a replay of Resurrection from time to time where I experience playing a video game vicariously. The aspect you mention of trying to make it to the Betty while fighting off aliens reminds me a bit of the original Halo, which is the last video game I played through its entire adventure. Of course, I realize there are other movies you can apply the same logic, but Resurrection more often gets the nod from me.
The scene with the failed clones is one of the best scenes in the franchise.
Quote from: tleilaxu on Nov 08, 2017, 08:54:12 PM
The scene with the failed clones is one of the best scenes in the franchise.
I'm hoping for something similar in the new movie. Another lab by David but this time with mostly humans on display.
Quote from: Baron Von Marlon on Nov 09, 2017, 12:06:25 AM
Quote from: tleilaxu on Nov 08, 2017, 08:54:12 PM
The scene with the failed clones is one of the best scenes in the franchise.
I'm hoping for something similar in the new movie. Another lab by David but this time with mostly humans on display.
Maybe even still alive
Quote from: Paranoid Android on Nov 08, 2017, 01:03:54 PM
If the Newborn was simply replaced by some other type of alien, I don't think it would've changed much. I'm not a fan of its design, to say the least, but the main issue I had with it was how the Newborn was used. That whole sequence derails the film for me because of how absurd it is. I don't need a Queen with a human reproductive system (undermines the whole alien lifecycle) and I don't need the silly mother/son moments the Newborn had with Ripley. You could put the alien from the original film in there and it would've still been terrible.
There's some changes that I'd like to see made (SM used to talk about how he'd have liked them to have just found the Queen already dead which I think would have been interesting) but I think when we see people talking about how they hate the Newborn, it does mostly come down to design. Not everyone and that's not all the problems with Resurrection, but I feel safe in saying that that is what I mostly see complained about.
Quote from: tleilaxu on Nov 08, 2017, 08:54:12 PM
The scene with the failed clones is one of the best scenes in the franchise.
Agreed. Absolutely fantastic scene and performance. I still wonder if that scar on Ripley 7 was supposed to be setup for other stories. Don't think I've ever seen it spoken about.
I hold a similar opinion A:R. While it had a bad B-movie feeling, some of the concepts were solid and fit well with what you could explore with the concept of the xenomorph. I do, however, stand with the few who liked the concept of the Newborn. A "born" xenomorph is already a terrifying concept, and beautifully ironic considering the entire nature of the beast. Uncomfortable but subtle sexual themes was what made it work so well in the first place, and, although the execution in A:R was... poor, I'm still very much open to exploring the concept in the future. That's my opinion! :)
I`m certain what I don`t want. Another Ridley Alien film. Man lost his touch.