Ridley Scott on the hard road to Alien

Started by Corporal Hicks, May 24, 2019, 02:58:03 PM

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Ridley Scott on the hard road to Alien (Read 23,548 times)

maron

maron

#105
How can anyone still expect a good movie from Scott after Prometheus and Covenant? Even the new The Thing movie and Descent knew how to be a better movie.

And Scott still disrespects the beast. I gave up hope for a really good Alien movie ever to appear. In the end it's Alien 1-3 which are precious. The rest...not so much.

The Old One

The Old One

#106
It's absolutely a reasonable goal, but you need a central idea to focus them around.
Spoiler
Just like Prometheus applying to the Alien Universe or Prometheus in general, the writing is the key element that either means it works or it doesn't work.

Prometheus didn't work because of the writing,
Alien worked in major part because of the writing, all the other aspects are important yes, but if the writing doesn't work- everything else is for nothing.
As such is Prometheus' case.
Going on a mission funded by an eccentric multi-billionaire Capitalist to find God, but finding an/several old God(s) instead/
Mountains of Madness in the Alien universe. With a Pathogen that generates new horrors based upon circumstances of infection. + Philosophical pondering on the meaning of life in the face of such abject horror.

It's a superb idea, wasted.
[close]

Nostromo

Well, not totally wasted. Nice build up though. Prometheus is great seriously.

The Old One

The Old One

#108
Quote from: Nostromo on May 31, 2019, 12:50:50 PM
Prometheus is great seriously.

No, no it isn't. It's seriously a disaster.
A interesting idea totally wasted on a inane script.

Nostromo

Nostromo

#109
If only they had made better use of the deacon or if Fifield had turned into one...


Quote from: The Old One on May 31, 2019, 12:56:55 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on May 31, 2019, 12:50:50 PM
Prometheus is great seriously.

No, no it isn't. It's seriously a disaster.
A interesting idea totally wasted on a inane script.

A disaster? Common man. It has some seriously nice settings, actors, world building, music, effects.

Script could have obviously been better but I would definitely not call it a disaster. 9/10 for me. Without the dumb snake scene and dumbed down acting decisions and with the deacon creeping around it would have been a 10.

The Old One

The Old One

#110
Again, all those elements mean absolutely nothing without a good script to work from, it doesn't matter how good your Director, actors and production is if the play's story is absolute garbage.

And Prometheus script is a trashfire.
Spoiler
Alien or no Alien.

Defying audience expectations is alright, as long as you have something of substance to replace it with. Prometheus' fault is it didn't. For heaven's sake, some of the dialogue alone: "Half a billion lightyears." -So barely out of our solar system Meredith Vickers?

Doesn't exactly encourage the audience to engage with the lofty questions the film poses when they can't believe in the world because of it's lack of logic, or a solid character to attach to, and I don't mean attach to as in care for, I mean believable characterisation.

The clearest example I can think of is that Prometheus wants us to believe, that both Fifield and Millburn are intelligent scientists early on- poking fun at the mission's ridiculous premise. (While using "Darwinism" as terminology, oh Lord.) Ok, but then later on wants us to believe they're idiots- neither is an unattainable goal. But which is it Prometheus?

Don't get me started on how hard it is to take a antagonist (The Pathogen) seriously when it's "power" is so inconsistent and dependant upon what the plot requires, it doesn't make your antagonists or protagonists impressive or respectable. You respect them whenever they do everything right and still fail.
[close]

Nostromo

Nostromo

#111
True, this was definitely not handled well at all..no idea why it was made so stupidly and no editor or anyone didn't see it's shortcoming.

QuoteFifield and Millburn are intelligent scientists early

Ok, but then later on wants us to believe they're idiots-?

Loved most of the rest though.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: The Old One on May 31, 2019, 12:56:55 PM
Quote from: Nostromo on May 31, 2019, 12:50:50 PM
Prometheus is great seriously.

No, no it isn't. It's seriously a disaster.
A interesting idea totally wasted on a inane script.

If Prometheus was better received than Covenant by critics and audiences alike and is a disaster, then what does that make Covenant?

Nostromo

A blend of Prometheus Exploration and Adventure/World Building mixed with a blend of Alien for Terror and Aliens for Chills & Thrills. That's all I need.

The Old One

The Old One

#114
The reason Prometheus' sequel was received as is, regardless of being a superior film,
and more internally consistent- is already discussed to death.

Quote from: The Old One on Jan 24, 2019, 10:33:28 PM
Lacklustre trailers, title.
With the awareness that Prometheus was crap, a sense of "Oh you won't fool me this time, Ridley Scott!" was in the air,
which most likely contributed to it's sequel's decrease in commercial success despite IMO, being a superior film and script.
And a concept that we'd seen before.
(From the trailers perspective.)

It's more easy to see why audiences didn't have a interest when you compare it to what Prometheus did have.

Prometheus' the return of Ridley Scott to Sci-Fi, a cast of hot new stars and an return to sense of legitimacy in that Prometheus was described as it's own thing in the Alien Universe, the complete opposite of the abortion of AVP/AVPR people had suffered five years prior- that had little to do with the series history creatively, aesthetically, narratively or thematically beyond the creature itself. 
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 29, 2019, 04:45:12 PM
It's because Prometheus was touted as Ridley Scott's return to Sci-Fi, a amazing cast and a superb trailer. Obscuring the awful script.

So by the time the sequel appears, people are throughrally disenchanted.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 25, 2019, 04:08:26 PM
The cast isn't superior to Prometheus' but they're better acted and directed.

The editing in Prometheus is completely f**ked, Covenant's is not.

Covenant knows what it is, Prometheus does not.

Nah, Covenant- aside from the Xenomorph in the ship at the end being somewhat lacklustre but not always- is a superior film.
(when it's standing up and moving around slowly like a man it's pretty fantastic and so is the visuals of the atmospheric decompression.)
Aside from some of the production design of the human crafts, spacesuits and weaponry which I thought were much more interesting looking in Prometheus, Covenant is much, much better film it's probably just that because Prometheus doesn't know what it's about- in your head you can define it therefore in whatever way you want, whereas Covenant actually has a strong narrative theme. As many smarter than me have said, Covenant's a Romanticism; Gothic Horror in space and if you're not willing to approach it like you would that genre of literature, you're not going to be interested.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: The Old One on May 31, 2019, 05:13:42 PM
The reason Prometheus' sequel was received as is, regardless of being a superior film,
and more internally consistent- is already discussed to death.

Or like me and a bit more than the 50% of the AvPG fans that voted, we just feel Prometheus is the superior film regardless.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Old One

The Old One

#116
As I said, already discussed to death.
Which do you like better? is not Which is better? -anyway.
I don't see why you'd even bring it up frankly, I wasn't discussing the "Prometheus Vs Covenant" argument.


Voodoo Magic

Because you called Prometheus a "disaster" sis. That's more fitting for films like Battlefield Earth I think. Not Prometheus.

The Old One

The Old One

#118
Nah, Prometheus is trash.

It sits alongside VIII-TLJ, GoT-S8, SWPrequelTrilogy and The Hobbit Prequel Trilogy.
The shelf of immense wasted potential, scripts full of holes and bizarre acting caricatures.

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: The Old One on May 31, 2019, 05:23:12 PM
Nah, Prometheus is trash.

It sits alongside VIII-TLJ, GoT-S8, SWPrequelTrilogy and The Hobbit Prequel Trilogy.
The shelf of immense wasted potential, scripts full of holes and bizarre acting characters.

Disaster and trash? Ouch!

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