Marvel's First Alien Series Announced!

Started by Kailem, Dec 07, 2020, 07:22:32 PM

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Marvel's First Alien Series Announced! (Read 273,512 times)

Russ840

Russ840

#1050
My original comment about all this was to point out that what Larroca does by photo referencing and tracing is no different to what is done by other artists for other publications.

At no point am I trying to defend Greg Land's shoddy, stolen work.

It just seems to me that, because of Land, a lot of people are just looking to throw negativity towards the new Marvel work.

So SM. I was not trying to be disingenuous with my point. Just neutral. 



Quote from: RidgeTop on Mar 25, 2021, 09:52:00 PM
Let's keep it civil here, folks.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 25, 2021, 09:12:20 PM
I think Ridgetop noticed that because he hates prometheus so much. And I understand that series HAD to be rushed out because they were losing the license.

But I get it, whatabout-ism helps make the pill go down easier for those shelling out money for this when they know before-hand that it's just lazy traced work.

This seems to be a growing trend in the industry but Marvel appears to be leading the charge.

I don't hate Prometheus, I was very disappointed in it in the context of an Alien prequel. I've always said as a stand-alone sci-fi I quite enjoy it, and I still watch it from time to time. Actually the ship designs in both Covenant and Prometheus were some of the things I liked the most, which is why I was quick to notice them. Copying those backgrounds is deserving of criticism but certainly not as bad as straight up stealing from a fellow comic artist like what happened with Land.

But Salvador Larroca should not be getting hammered because of Land either.

[cancerblack]

Quote from: judge death on Mar 25, 2021, 09:41:49 PM
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Mar 25, 2021, 09:35:36 PM
Quote from: judge death on Mar 25, 2021, 09:14:51 PM
Read that Marvel used warhammer 40K figures they traced for some venom comics and got shit and threats of suement from the owners of warcraft 40k, seems they didnt learn from it.

It wasn't even that much effort, they just ripped models directly the from Dawn of War videogame and didn't even trace or recolour them, just shrunk/upscaled a few parts (in ways that don't even look any good or make any sense).

Or maybe you mean the time they actually did draw a 1:1 copy of what amounts to an "rpg pistol" from 40k, then added a weird fuel tank and grappling hook to it?

I've posted both earlier in the thread.
Ahh! Sorry I missed that, learned that 2 days ago when I was reading about spiderman and found this stated in reviews that took up venom.

Here's the post about Venom: Space Knight from earlier. Looks like they did use some kind of shader/filter to make it look like line art but I doubt there was any manual tracing, that would have been too much work:

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jan 08, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Here's an oldie but a goodie, Venom: Space Knight using Dawn of War videogame models (the tan coloured vehicles). Presumably to dodge copyright (GW is one of the few organizations as litigious as Disney, or was at the time), but possibly through sheer laziness or incompetence, they also managed to scale up the main chassis by an order of magnitude or two, while leaving the drones (front), missile rack (top), access hatches (side), and engines (side, upper) in the original scale.

Marvel fans of the day assured me this was not an uncommon event.

https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-tau-1.jpg?resize=860%2C718
https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-tau-2.jpg?w=860


And some of the Spider Man panels with the Bolt Pistol, compared with an actual tiny plastic gun from the miniatures:




BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#1052
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 25, 2021, 08:38:10 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 25, 2021, 08:16:32 PM
Dark Horse is definitely not as egregious and to try and imply that they did the same thing after all the bullshit cover thievery to the lazy lifelessness of the final artwork is disingenuous bullshit.

Please take it down a notch SM. I'm not good at finding these things myself but RidgeTop went looking in DH's Alien: The Original Screenplay and found an array of tracing that Hicks, Eric nor I caught. So in terms of recent Alien, until someone goes looking in releases like F&S and L&D etc., to be fair, we don't know, until we know (sadly).

I can tell you having read most every Dark Horse graphic novel in existence, and having nearly every Alien image committed to memory because I'm something of a sperg, that the tracing's basically nonexistent in any of the good ones apart from a single panel in Thicker Than Blood that clearly referenced a popular Alien Isolation pose.

I have already said for years I despise Fire and Stone for this reason amongst others.

And Salvador Larroca deserves every bit of ire he gets.

PAS Spinelli

I feel like background tracing isn't nearly as bad as tracing characters

RidgeTop

RidgeTop

#1054
Quote from: Russ840 on Mar 25, 2021, 09:52:25 PM
But Salvador Larroca should not be getting hammered because of Land either.

I'm not saying he should be, because he has his own pretty damning track record when it comes to this sort of thing:



Also, I'm looking forward to when the Toyota LQ Concept goes into production in 180 years:




I don't think Dark Horse had much of a track record of this though really. From what I've seen we have:

Aliens: Fire & Stone, which wasn't so much theft as it was Patrick Reynolds tracing his own collaged reference and elements, which isn't egregious but I still think make things look too stiff.

Aliens: Rescue, the variant covers were swiped.

and Alien: The Original Screenplay, where the environmental backgrounds were swiped. 

What we've seen done by Marvel already in terms of artwork is pretty concerning. However I've also seen some great variant covers from Marvel by artists who I see no evidence of this behavior.

BlueMarsalis79

Land and Larroca are both scum.

SM

SM

#1056
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Mar 25, 2021, 10:07:23 PM
I feel like background tracing isn't nearly as bad as tracing characters

Possibly.

It's just hackery.  Whether it's because the artist is lazy, untalented, or under unreasonable pressures - it's still hackery and ends up looking cheap.

Use stills for reference - don't copy them wholesale.

And criticism of Marvel for the way they've handled this whole thing isn't equating Larocca with Land.  It's criticism of Marvel.  Obviously.  Larocca can get criticised for his own faults.

Kimarhi

Mods are no fun.


This was close to becoming a marvel inspired death match. 

>:(

Russ840

Quote from: Trash Queen on Mar 25, 2021, 10:15:49 PM
Land and Larroca are both scum.

Why is Larroca scum ?

SM

SM

#1059
I think publicly shitting on one of his colourists and making sure everyone knew she was a woman might qualify?


Another thing that's confusing me - why is this more expensive on Kindle?

Single issues of digital comics were generally around $5 and this is $7.50.  Does it have a higher the usual page count because it's a first issue?

Nightmare Asylum

Quote from: SM on Mar 25, 2021, 11:18:23 PM
Another thing that's confusing me - why is this more expensive on Kindle?

Single issues of digital comics were generally around $5 and this is $7.50.  Does it have a higher the usual page count because it's a first issue?

I think its page count is a bit higher, which is reflected in its $4.99 USD price as opposed to Marvel's standard $3.99. No idea why they would bump it up even more for Kindle. :-X

BlueMarsalis79

Tracing and his "art style" obviously.

Russ840

Quote from: SM on Mar 25, 2021, 11:18:23 PM
I think publicly shitting on one of his colourists and making sure everyone knew she was a woman might qualify?


Another thing that's confusing me - why is this more expensive on Kindle?

Single issues of digital comics were generally around $5 and this is $7.50.  Does it have a higher the usual page count because it's a first issue?

I was not aware of that incident.

It does have a higher page count. But no idea why it's further inflated on kindle.

426Buddy

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 25, 2021, 09:41:43 PM
Quote from: 426Buddy on Mar 25, 2021, 09:12:20 PM
It is disengenous to say DH had done anything on this level and that's counting Alien the original screenplay. I think Ridgetop noticed that because he hates prometheus so much.

???

Again, please take it down a notch guys. It's okay to disagree but let's try to do it without all the hostility.

Just for clarification I didn't mean to slight you Ridgetop with that comment. I just noticed you're not big on seeing the prequel stuff make its way into the rest of the series so I assumed incorrectly that's why it stood out to you. No malice or hostility meant with that comment, and saying "hate" was just hyperbole


Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Trash Queen on Mar 25, 2021, 09:55:48 PM
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 25, 2021, 08:38:10 PM
Quote from: SM on Mar 25, 2021, 08:16:32 PM
Dark Horse is definitely not as egregious and to try and imply that they did the same thing after all the bullshit cover thievery to the lazy lifelessness of the final artwork is disingenuous bullshit.

Please take it down a notch SM. I'm not good at finding these things myself but RidgeTop went looking in DH's Alien: The Original Screenplay and found an array of tracing that Hicks, Eric nor I caught. So in terms of recent Alien, until someone goes looking in releases like F&S and L&D etc., to be fair, we don't know, until we know (sadly).

I can tell you having read most every Dark Horse graphic novel in existence, and having nearly every Alien image committed to memory because I'm something of a sperg, that the tracing's basically nonexistent in any of the good ones apart from a single panel in Thicker Than Blood that clearly referenced a popular Alien Isolation pose.

Speaking about AvP Thicker than Blood, RT just dipped his toe in and found his first tracing there and it has nothing to do with Isolation.  :o  Mad respect for his eagle-eyes! Since it's his find though, I'll let him share it. That's why I say let's see how deep the rabbit hole goes with Dark Horse.  :-\

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