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In a recent interview with Sir Ridley Scott recorded during the Alien: Covenant press junkets, Scott talks a little about what’s he has in store for the Alien: Covenant sequel (also currently known as Alien: Awakening)!

“They’ll be three or four different players coming in to investigate. One of which will be the Engineers arriving back to find their planet decimated. I think those ships come and go on regular intervals. I see them as the gardeners of space.

Where we go next is obvious. We’re gonna actually go to the planet. In so doing…I’m not going to tell you the story!”

When Ridley says “the planet” I assume he may be talking about LV-426 as that seems one of the more direct and obvious ways in which the Alien prequels would tie into Alien. Or possibly back to Paradise judging from the Engineers involvement. Or he make just mean the Covenant’s destination, Origae-6. Thanks to 0321recon and acidreign for the link.

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Grand!

That is damn good news from Ridley.........any news from Fox?

Definitely sounds like lv-426. Not sure what or who the three of four different players are. Obviously there are no ties to the predator universe, so that's out. So the film will go from the engineer homeworld and transition to 426? I assume that's where David is headed with the thousands of colonists he most likely transforms into the eggs from the first movie. Either way, glad to hear we may see home base again. At long last. Pizmo beach and all the clams we can eat. Albuquerque's in the rear view baby.  :)

wonder if shaw put any extra bolts in Davids nek...I think he's going to need those...  :P

Excellent, well it's obvious it's going to happen to explain how the ship got to lv426!

Be interesting to see how Scott will play out the engineers and David encountering each other again...

We should see a queen...

Will we see Daniels and Tennessee tho?

How many eggs were there on the derelict ship in Alien ?......2000 ?
How many habitants on the vessel Covenant?......2000 ?

2+2=4......you have the answer  ;)

Quote from: Huggs on Jun 21, 2017, 08:38:09 AM
Definitely sounds like lv-426. Not sure what or who the three of four different players are. Obviously there are no ties to the predator universe, so that's out. So the film will go from the engineer homeworld and transition to 426? I assume that's where David is headed with the thousands of colonists he most likely transforms into the eggs from the first movie. Either way, glad to hear we may see home base again. At long last. Pizmo beach and all the clams we can eat. Albuquerque's in the rear view baby.  :)

Going off the river pain novel, the eggs in the derelict are from a queen but who knows weather Scott will follow this...

TOLD. YOU. SO.
I'll have that virtual coke now, thanks.

Quote from: LV-12986 on Jun 21, 2017, 08:47:37 AM
Going off the river pain novel, the eggs in the derelict are from a queen but who knows weather Scott will follow this...

Scott wont be tied to the novels. I think we're going in the direction of something like the eggs being the Covenant's cargo and that ship being a recent crash.

Narrowly escaped that with Prometheus and now it's circling back around.  :'( I am interested in seeing more of the Engineers though!

Possibly quite optimistic about the plot of the next film

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 21, 2017, 08:59:40 AM

Quote from: LV-12986 on Jun 21, 2017, 08:47:37 AM
Going off the river pain novel, the eggs in the derelict are from a queen but who knows weather Scott will follow this...

Scott wont be tied to the novels. I think we're going in the direction of something like the eggs being the Covenant's cargo and that ship being a recent crash.

Narrowly escaped that with Prometheus and now it's circling back around.  :'( I am interested in seeing more of the Engineers though!

How would he get the eggs aboard the derelict? That's a lot of eggs to carry :'(

I'm looking forward to seeing more engineers, it was never the end of them after covenant, there was never just one military installation or habitat for them

The eggs were never "onboard" the Derelict, they are underground in an installation, a cave system of sorts, the Derelict sits on top of the place, docking there or something similar.

It all comes together brilliantly for me. The basis of the film sounds absolutely amazing.

Just hope it actually happens!

Either way...he will need to carry a shitload of eggs from one place to another. Maybe he has some help or something?

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddwarf.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2005%2F12%2F23%2Fthe-first-skutter%2Fdvd_the_first_skutter_231205_2.jpg&hash=533ac06eaede4bd8f5e152a1a10bbda16d48c2b4)

Scott: "...I lost the plot, what was the question?"

WE ARE f**kED!!!

Quote from: Hemi on Jun 21, 2017, 09:25:19 AM
Either way...he will need to carry a shitload of eggs from one place to another. Maybe he has some help or something?

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/news/2005/12/23/the-first-skutter/dvd_the_first_skutter_231205_2.jpg

Unless! Unless! The black goo, hear me out here, the black goo...transforms the Covenant into a Juggernaut!!!

I'm joking. Please don't take me seriously, Ridley! 

Ridley: I'm not going to tell you the story!

Me: Of Course you will not ! the story on final product might different from your mind right now.

Been thinking...three or four players:

•engineers
•a rescue team in search of what happened to the covenant
•a science team, I think WY will have knowledge of what's happened and there is were the hunt for the "bio weapon" comes in to play.
•David himself

A long shot I know but you never know, I've mentioned this in another thread before but I strongly believe ash will make an appearance in this movie, he seems to know way to much about the xenomorph when its aboard the nostromo and I've also seen a few say David is ash!

Let's all return here on release when there are no Engineers, David turns human and Daniels ends up being Ripleys mum.

Quote from: Highland on Jun 21, 2017, 09:43:05 AM
Let's all return here on release when there are no Engineers, David turns human and Daniels ends up being Ripleys mum.

O ye, of little faith

This seems really exciting!

If Ridley Scott say's what I think he means we will be heading to the Engineers homeworld Paradise and see a colossal war between Xenomorphs and Engineers. I'm sure He could just as well mean the original planet LV-426 but I think to actually go to the Engineers homeworld would be much more ambitious and exciting as an Alien film!

I'm just glad that as of right now it seems like we're getting at least one more movie.

However the engineers returning to Paradise and finding deadgingeers and stumbling across David's lair... that sounds awesome.

Quote from: locusta on Jun 21, 2017, 09:26:22 AM
Scott: "...I lost the plot, what was the question?"

WE ARE f**kED!!!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In a previous interview while promoting covenant he also mentions a 'war of the worlds' type scenario playing out. Sounds very promising and a suitably epic conclusion to the prequel series. Imagine a massive conflict taking place between david, his beasts and the engineers. In an attempt to rid paradise of the xenomorphs, the engineers load their ship full of whats remaining of David's creatures and jet off to some unknown location. And there you have it. The original space jockey.

Best news ive heard about the engineers since prometheus!

Man, I hope this is actually how it's going to play out. But we all know Ridley changes his mind all the time..

I hope it's not wishful thinking on his part but he said so because he has tangible reasons to be so open about the sequels. I personally would love if actors like Michael Sheen, Sam Rockwell, Leonardo di Caprio and Tom Hardy (most of them) appeared in the film :)

Ridley can talk about various scenarios as much as he can...........BUT has Fox given the OK.

God Ridley just retire

Ridley might be sure he's going to do a sequel to Covenant, but given its performance, I kinda doubt FOX is ready to commit to one. They may let him just so the prequels are not left hanging, but I would assume they'd demand the tightest budget out of the three.

The obvious planet is Origae-6

Quote from: Highland on Jun 21, 2017, 09:43:05 AM
Let's all return here on release when there are no Engineers, David turns human and Daniels ends up being Ripleys mum.

Daniels will be fighting for her life in the lions den.

Quote from: RidgeTop on Jun 21, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
They may let him just so the prequels are not left hanging, but I would assume they'd demand the tightest budget out of the three.

Totally agree. Also, I think 3 prequel films leading up to Alien is plenty enough. He was kind going way off the handle there when He said he was gonna make 4 or more Alien prequels. Led me to kind of scratch my head and wonder how in the f**k is He gonna make the series THAT popular and how are they gonna take in hundreds of millions each and every time again after the lackluster Prometheus? Just hand the series over to James Cameron if you want the expanse of this universe to be COLOSSAL.

I think 1 more would be enough too. When I look at Prometheus, and then Covenant, and see how the scripts get tighter, I can't help but feel that Awakening will be absolutely monstrous (if it's given a decent sized budget, that is).

Quote from: Chronicle on Jun 21, 2017, 11:21:30 AM

Quote from: RidgeTop on Jun 21, 2017, 11:11:38 AM
They may let him just so the prequels are not left hanging, but I would assume they'd demand the tightest budget out of the three.

Totally agree. Also, I think 3 prequel films leading up to Alien is plenty enough. He was kind going way off the handle there when He said he was gonna make 4 or more Alien prequels. Led me to kind of scratch my head and wonder how in the f**k is He gonna make the series THAT popular and how are they gonna take in hundreds of millions each and every time again after the lackluster Prometheus? Just hand the series over to James Cameron if you want the expanse of this universe to be COLOSSAL.

Yeah 3 is enough but never let Cameron return, not the way he thinks now, EVERYTHING would be CGI.

I knew it. This sounds awesome! I can't wait for the "War of the worlds" that Ridley is planning.  ;D

Exactly.  :)

I've been imagining this:

We see a group of engineers arrive at their home planet to find everyone dead.  They investigate a bit and find the ship that David and Shaw arrived in.  They watch a hologram playback showing David dropping the goo.  They're furious.

Opening Title

Then we focus on a second load of colonists coming to join the colony on Origae-6.  As far as they know, everything's going fine there because David's transmissions say so.  When they get there, they find dead colonists, a hive, etc.  (I'd like to see a hive in a wooded area with the alien snot-gunk all strung up in between trees.  It would be something slightly different.)

OR the focus of the film could be watching the hive form from the original load of colonists as they try to start their new life.  (We've never actually seen this process before outside of River of Pain.) David could possibly use Daniels to make a queen and a flashback could confirm that this is what he did to Shaw.

No matter what the human focus is, eventually, the engineers track David to this planet, land, explore the hive and get attacked.  While they're outside of their ship, David plants some eggs in their hull.  The engineers flee the alien hive and take off.  Of course, their ship becomes infested and they crash on LV426.

Gap bridged.  Prequel trilogy over.  Another director can take the reigns and hopefully serve as a box office draw.

Posted this on another thread. Mean as well put it here.

In another forum someone commented that perhaps a proto faction of the Colonial Marines could come to play since this will be two expeditions that have gone missing, and Weyland-Yutani wants to know what occurred especially now that more than 2,000 colonists have vanished. They might send a team of these proto Colonial Marines to investigate. 

Ridley's talk about 'the planet' there's three possible choices, LV-426, Origae-6, and finally Paradise.

I have a suspicion that David might actually be going to Paradise to eradicate the engineer race once and for all.

When the engineers arrive on Planet 4, they will find Walter and ask him who killed their people. Once he tells him that it was David, they will surely go after him, and if he's going to Paradise, the film could become a race against time since he could have created an army of Xeno and protomorphs to destroy the Paradisian population.   

In the middle of this, if the Colonial Marines are involved, they will find themselves in the middle of this, and literally becomes what Scott talked about being 'war of the worlds'. 

In the end, Lindelof was right. It was a diversion to seed the ideas of what's going to occur in this final film, though that's if its gets made after Covenant's lackluster performance.

Let's see what happens.

There' still one android left on Paradise. Also, I don't really trust any other director with this franchise. After watching Rakka I really feel like we dodged a bullet there. Not that Rakka was super horrible or something, it was just... Neill Blomkamp, again.

Amazing news.

I can imagine the Enineers arriving to the planet with their mechanical suits and helmet to avoid the black goo and taking Walter back to their ship to know what happened.

very exciting to hear
xeno vs engineer war?

Ha. I knew they'd have engineers coming to see what happened to the planet and then eventually coming for David. (So this probably means an Engineer does wind up in the chair after all?)

Quote from: The_Foxcatcher on Jun 21, 2017, 11:15:51 AM
The obvious planet is Origae-6

Unless David intends to create a planet of Aliens on ORIGAE-6, what reason does he have to go there? It makes far more sense for David to travel to the Engineer homeworld and/or wherever they have colonies themselves, and start wiping these places out.

I think the idea is that David will make himself a threat and then WY will want the weapon.

It also looks like we will get to see 'What made the Engineers' after-all.

Which - if anyone is really paying attention, is what can save this Prequel trilogy.

Quote from: BonesawT101 on Jun 21, 2017, 10:06:01 AM
In a previous interview while promoting covenant he also mentions a 'war of the worlds' type scenario playing out. Sounds very promising and a suitably epic conclusion to the prequel series. Imagine a massive conflict taking place between david, his beasts and the engineers. In an attempt to rid paradise of the xenomorphs, the engineers load their ship full of whats remaining of David's creatures and jet off to some unknown location. And there you have it. The original space jockey.

But then that would just be a side story to fix into the problem of the Engineer with the eggs. Which perhaps is all we need from it. Could actually be a cold open or an ending prologue. (But would that be satisfying?)

This makes me very happy! I knew the Engineers were too advanced to be totally wiped out by one android.

Thing is the eggs would be less effective at wiping out planets than the goo. Thats another feather in the cap for the "David made the Alien".

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 21, 2017, 09:29:33 AM

Quote from: Hemi on Jun 21, 2017, 09:25:19 AM
Either way...he will need to carry a shitload of eggs from one place to another. Maybe he has some help or something?

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/news/2005/12/23/the-first-skutter/dvd_the_first_skutter_231205_2.jpg

Unless! Unless! The black goo, hear me out here, the black goo...transforms the Covenant into a Juggernaut!!!

I'm joking. Please don't take me seriously, Ridley!

The Faze transforms it!  :laugh:

So it finally was "their" planet in covenant ? I thought there could be a possibility of this planet not being the engineer homeworld after some rumors, but I guess it won't be the case

I can't help but wonder if this film will see the Engineers actually become extinct. I always wondered why such a species was never mentioned in the second movie. Unless they're the Arcturians, which I doubt. Also, could lv-426 be the engineers main homeworld? If it is indeed actual paradise, perhaps the cave system seen in the first film is actually some kind of network of grand halls or something. I just can't shake the nagging suspicion that David would defile the Holy of Holies by planting the seed of evil there. Either way, David must have some limitations, Aliens might not see him as a threat or food, but the Engineers won't be so forgiving. I can't see him surviving open conflict with several engineers. As for Walter's fate, I don't see David leaving him functional, unless he hopes that by marooning him there alive, he might learn from david's work and come to understand it. I personally think Walter's toast.

Lets wait for Ridley to change his mind again lol

Great News!  :)

What Ridley has given in both Prometheus and Covenant are really below par efforts for his standard. Now all the story elements are established, and he has to just tie all the points with stunning visuals and actions across humans, aliens and engineers in only one final prequel film. After that, he has to give it to other modern directors to bring more ideas for future sequels. His legendary days seem to be over.

@ everyone who kept insisting throughout Covenant's promotion that Ridley was abandoning the Engineers with Covenant:

(https://i.imgur.com/DIigZ3E.png)

Quote from: CoalescedChaos on Jun 21, 2017, 03:45:00 PM
@ everyone who kept insisting throughout Covenant's promotion that Ridley was abandoning the Engineers with Covenant:

https://i.imgur.com/DIigZ3E.png

LOL! That picture's hilarious.  :laugh:

I'm ready Ridley ! 2019 please  ;D

I'm glad to hear this!
Four different players? Covenant, Engineers, maybe Weyland-Yutani and... A whole new species? Or is it pirates? I think a space pirates tale with Xenos would be awesome. Arrr!  ;D

People here are totally crazy.

James Cameron DOESN'T care about this Franchise. Cameron DOESN'T care about his baby: The Terminator Franchise and he is going to care about other franchises. LOL.

James Cameron only cares about Avatar 2,3,4 and 5.

BE REAL GUYS!.

They all seem remake of the very first Alien to me.

So, very sadly, I don't expect more than another remake.

Im overhyped. We need to see the military Engineers arriving to the planet with their space suits. Ohhh, man, can wait.

Well, the transmission David sent at the end of Covenant was estimated to take more than a year to reach earth, if I remember correctly. Add to that the colonists were described as safe and 2 crew members were still alive, with what appears to Walter to help them, where would the human involvement in this story come from? Would Wey-Yu even bother sending someone under those conditions? Even if the company knew for a fact it wasn't Walter and that something happened, you're talking 2 years to receive a message and prep a team, plus travel time, and lack of knowledge of the planet stop the covenant made, plus David might decide to go somewhere else entirely. He and his creations don't need good weather and atmospherics to survive. The colonists do, but he has a whole colony ship to do the dirty work on.


I don't particularly see Daniels and Tennessee as long-term characters. Fassbender might be able to take up a sizeable portion of non-creature screen time, but I can't imagine engineers or aliens getting excessive amounts of it. Well, there are 2000 colonists to pick from afterall, Ridley could cast anyone and have them escape from an alien damaged cryo-pod. Instant human cast. I hope he doesn't go that route, David is far too cunning to let that happen.

I REALLY hope Ridley Scott didn't mean what he said when he said the Engineers plan on going back to investigate the planet David Goo Bombed. Why? I want to see Paradise or LV-426. I don't want to see a lot of back tracking in Covenant's sequel.

I hope it's not THIS PLANET!

Quote from: Chronicle on Jun 21, 2017, 06:25:31 PM
I REALLY hope Ridley Scott didn't mean what he said when he said the Engineers plan on going back to investigate the planet David Goo Bombed. Why? I want to see Paradise or LV-426. I don't want to see a lot of back tracking in Covenant's sequel.

I hope it's not THIS PLANET!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeMVrnYNwus

That's exactly what he meant. Why does this offend you so? You don't want to see 8 feet pristine humanoids getting enraged when they see what we did to their people?

Hopefully this means RS is returning the focus of the Prequels to the Engineers and their Religion. This would be ideal.

Leave it to Ridley Scott to lose his train of thought halfway through answering a question.  Dude IS in his 80s, though, and still cranking out films.  Gotta give him that, at least.

Even though I liked "Alien: Covenant" very much, my main gripe about it was that Scott course-corrected too far onto the "Alien" side of things.  As one of a few people on planet Earth who loved "Prometheus," got exactly what I wanted from the film, and was anxious to see where the story went next, the fact that the Engineers got little to no screen time in "Covenant" was extremely disappointing.  I was more interested in that angle than I was in anything else, honestly.  And it seems Scott just blew all that up by getting rid of them altogether.

Now, however, it would seem the Engineers' story is not finished, and for that, I'm very happy.  I don't want Scott to drop all the Engineer stuff because fans wanted more Alien stuff; I'm in the camp that wants it ALL!

To me the engineer aspect along with their religion, beliefs, black goo, activities and motives and origins were the most interesting subject in Prometheus.

Scott set it up that way to deviate away from the alien aspect and explore new areas of the same universe.

Then he did a U-turn away from it and focused more on the alien in Covenant. I liked the first and second act of the film (and the neomorph) but by the the third I completely lost interest as it was the same thing...blow it outta the airlock! Plus I knew there would be no engineers or at least some kind of expansion on them, by then. Thats what I was looking forward to the most!

The purpose and creation of the black goo, something that had so much intrigue and mystery behind it in Prometheus, was just explained away in one sentence by David. I felt short changed.

I hope the goo is expanded on more in the next one. David did say that he had the last of the original pathogen in his lab, so there must be different variants of it. It needs more exploring, it is the fire of the gods after all!

I remember reading somewhere Ridley stating something along the lines of "who created the creators." Maybe well get to see the engineers creators. Maybe not.

First time post by the way. I've been coming to this site for well over a decade. Don't know why I never joined! :-P

"i lost the plot"

yeah in both movies Sir!


...


a couple of times!

Be nice to Riddles.

I hope Ridley starts the next movie all Revenge of the Sith style and have the rescue team open straight into an epic space battle between the engineers, aliens and something worse.

Quote from: whiterabbit on Jun 21, 2017, 08:59:15 PM
I hope Ridley starts the next movie all Revenge of the Sith style and have the rescue team open straight into an epic space battle between the engineers, aliens and something worse.

That sounds EPIC!.

I hope his budget is like 50 million or less. Less big expensive sweeping CGI shots and more plot and character development. Let him try some Guerilla film making again.

I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

I made a thread the other day that basically near as hell echoes this plot as a direct way forward for the prequels. Just have the Engineers explore why their colony got straight f**ked, realize whatever human/android did this, and learning that its the Covenant. David arrives on Paradise, letting loose a beacon from the Covenant later on to attract other people who could carry the progeny of the Covenant crew that's been festering on "Paradise", what have you. And have the Engineers pissed as f**k their planet of origin suffered genocide, and you got a team that received David's SOS and arrive on paradise some time later. When the aliens get onboard whatever vessel the colonial military arrive on they self destruct, or perhaps not leading to the opening of another sequel.

And it all boils down to the complete genocide of the Engineers homeworld while learning of their culture from whomever followed the Colony Ship's SOS. Which would better explain this poster/marketing gimmick

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Fapp%2Fxalien-covenant-fill.jpg.pagespeed.ic.rPyCbS72Kx.jpg&hash=79513c8d53fc69e34a61487391ceddaf514f199e)

Whatever happens the last of the engineers mount a counter attack once and for all on Earth now that we pretty much ruined everything beyond their hopes and dreams, relay to the LV-223, but it's too late and many of the Juggernauts fly out into space as their crews as are assaulted, except for one who crash lands on nearby LV-426, let's out a beacon.  Knowing one way or another this is connected to the operation to rescue the Covenant crew from whatever SOS, they triangulate the position to the same Gas Giant, with the same set of moons that were considered quarantine, which the Prometheus went missing from. Intrigued if there might be survivors, or indeed, this hostile race staging an attack on Earth, they get a ship, the Nostromo, a beat up tug nobody would care if they got missing. To locate whatever happened to the Colonial troops far far away on Paradise. And to locate and retrieve whatever killed them off. Nobody would notice if they just simply died and they could intercept the Nostromo once it gets into the core systems on its way to Earth. But Ripley kind of f**ked that all up.

I think the most powerful take away from all of this in a plot sense, is David committed the largest scale genocide on the progenitors of life on Earth, and god knows life on Earth elsewhere throughout the cosmos.  David killed God. And nobody cares. And nobody, perhaps a select few, would know about it. It also explains why the company would want the Alien so badly as a weapon, as it was designed as an extremely potent population leveler, it was designed that way.

And really, for all David wanted to be God, creating his own life, his largest accomplishment in the deepest darkest untraveled part of space, nobody knew or appreciated his work. His goal in his life ultimately proving thankless.

It isn't word for word what I had in mind for a sequel, but it's pretty god damn close as just mental masturbation of where they could go from here. Which is either a plus for me a or a minus for Ridley for being so predictable.

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

This is going to be a grand showdown between David, the engineers, the Xeno/protomorphs, and perhaps the colonial marines, so we need some of those sweeping shots.

Quote from: 0321recon on Jun 21, 2017, 10:11:07 PM

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

This is going to be a grand showdown between David, the engineers, the Xeno/protomorphs, and perhaps the colonial marines, so we need some of those sweeping shots.

Space Jockey (God), Engineers (Titans), Humans, Xeno (Eagle), and David. Please.

David travels back to LV-223 in order to obtain the quantities of black goo that he needs for his experiments on the colonists (doesn't have enough left after the assault on the Engineer city. Space Jockey awakens (hence the title) to discover David has destroyed paradise and the peaceful Engineers (ones who didn't rebel against the SJ and steal it's tech). SJ tracks the Covenant to LV-223. In the mean time David conducts his experiments. Earth send Colonial Marines to investigate. Battle between David's forces and marines. Deacon appears at some point also (now huge). SJ turns up and kicks the shit out of everyone. SJ takes David's eggs, maybe adding it's own touch (bio-mechanical), and sets out to deliver them to Earth. David/a surviving hero/or the Deacon sabotages the SJ and it crashes on LV-426.

Quote from: justind on Jun 21, 2017, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: 0321recon on Jun 21, 2017, 10:11:07 PM

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

This is going to be a grand showdown between David, the engineers, the Xeno/protomorphs, and perhaps the colonial marines, so we need some of those sweeping shots.

Space Jockey (God), Engineers (Titans), Colonial Marines (Humans), Xeno (Eagle), and David. Please.

David travels back to LV-223 in order to obtain the quantities of black goo that he needs for his experiments on the colonists (doesn't have enough left after the assault on the Engineer city. Space Jockey awakens (hence the title) to discover David has destroyed paradise and the peaceful Engineers (ones who didn't rebel against the SJ and steal it's tech). SJ tracks the Covenant to LV-223. In the mean time David conducts his experiments. Earth send Colonial Marines to investigate. Battle between David's forces and marines. Deacon appears at some point also. SJ turns up and kicks the shit out of everyone. SJ takes David's eggs, maybe adding it's own touch (bio-mechanical), and sets out to deliver them to Earth. David/a surviving hero/or the Deacon sabotages the SJ and it crashes on LV-426.

I think it's time to accept that the Engineers are the Space Jockeys, mate.

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

Think we could get some Xeno vs Engineer battles going on in the film?

Quote from: Xeneus on Jun 21, 2017, 11:24:59 PM

Quote from: justind on Jun 21, 2017, 11:23:21 PM

Quote from: 0321recon on Jun 21, 2017, 10:11:07 PM

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

This is going to be a grand showdown between David, the engineers, the Xeno/protomorphs, and perhaps the colonial marines, so we need some of those sweeping shots.

Space Jockey (God), Engineers (Titans), Colonial Marines (Humans), Xeno (Eagle), and David. Please.

David travels back to LV-223 in order to obtain the quantities of black goo that he needs for his experiments on the colonists (doesn't have enough left after the assault on the Engineer city. Space Jockey awakens (hence the title) to discover David has destroyed paradise and the peaceful Engineers (ones who didn't rebel against the SJ and steal it's tech). SJ tracks the Covenant to LV-223. In the mean time David conducts his experiments. Earth send Colonial Marines to investigate. Battle between David's forces and marines. Deacon appears at some point also. SJ turns up and kicks the shit out of everyone. SJ takes David's eggs, maybe adding it's own touch (bio-mechanical), and sets out to deliver them to Earth. David/a surviving hero/or the Deacon sabotages the SJ and it crashes on LV-426.

I think it's time to accept that the Engineers are the Space Jockeys, mate.

Why's that? The Space jockey is literally 3 times the size of the rebel Engineers. Rebel Engineers themselves are bigger than the subservient "Engineers". The story of Prometheus is about a group of Titans stealing the fire of creation from God and giving it to Man and then being punished by an Eagle that eats their liver every day. The Engineers can't be both God and the Titans. Their ships look the same but smaller because they stole the tech for the SJ. They were trying to create a bioweapon to fight the SJ, maybe even a version of something which the SJ already has (the bio-mechanical Xeno).

Also take into account there needs to be a big reveal in part 3. Some kind of larger menace. That won't just simply be the bio-mechanical Xeno. Ridley is over them and the casual audience won't know the difference (it will appear though). It won't be the Queen either as it's not Ridley's creation. What's left? What is the biggest mystery of Alien, the very reason for the prequel trilogy? It will be the Space Jockey, the only larger menace and true villain of the entire Alien storyline. He always said that was the story of Alien which he wanted to explore. He's not so senile to make it into a giant blue human. Again, think of the Prometheus mythology. We have the Engineers because the SJ seeded many planets. A section rebelled and stole the tech. Now we are involved and even making similar mistakes (David). Ridey loves the idea of Ancient Aliens and the hubris of creation.

It's entirely possible that he's deliberately misleading you to maintain the surprise. I don't know why people expect him to tell nothing but the truth. So to discredit the ideas above is entirely close minded.

When you consider all things we know: The mythological story of Prometheus. The massive size discrepancies. The desire of Fox to expand the universe. The title of the next film. LV-426 being in the same system as LV-223. David setting a course for the Engineer home planet but only primitive worshiping "Engineers" existing there.. The possible ways to tie the 3rd prequel directly to Alien...

Everyone wins this way.

Quote from: Chronicle on Jun 21, 2017, 11:28:51 PM

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 21, 2017, 09:56:56 PM
I want more plot, character development AND expensive sweeping CGI shots. I want this sh*t to be epic.

Think we could get some Xeno vs Engineer battles going on in the film?

Well, if Ridley wants the engineers to return, I think it's possible. Would be quite interesting.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jun 21, 2017, 08:21:26 AM
In a recent interview with Sir Ridley Scott recorded during the Alien: Covenant press junkets, Scott talks a little about what's he has in store for the Alien: Covenant sequel (also currently known as Alien: Awakening)!

I could live with that.  In fact, I'd be fine with a "battle of the gods" trope. Here's to a satisfying "through-line"! 

(https://typesetinthefuture.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/alien_0_55_05.jpg?w=1000)

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Jun 21, 2017, 10:09:23 PM
I made a thread the other day that basically near as hell echoes this plot as a direct way forward for the prequels. Just have the Engineers explore why their colony got straight f**ked, realize whatever human/android did this, and learning that its the Covenant. David arrives on Paradise, letting loose a beacon from the Covenant later on to attract other people who could carry the progeny of the Covenant crew that's been festering on "Paradise", what have you. And have the Engineers pissed as f**k their planet of origin suffered genocide, and you got a team that received David's SOS and arrive on paradise some time later. When the aliens get onboard whatever vessel the colonial military arrive on they self destruct, or perhaps not leading to the opening of another sequel.

And it all boils down to the complete genocide of the Engineers homeworld while learning of their culture from whomever followed the Colony Ship's SOS. Which would better explain this poster/marketing gimmick

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Fapp%2Fxalien-covenant-fill.jpg.pagespeed.ic.rPyCbS72Kx.jpg&hash=79513c8d53fc69e34a61487391ceddaf514f199e)

Whatever happens the last of the engineers mount a counter attack once and for all on Earth now that we pretty much ruined everything beyond their hopes and dreams, relay to the LV-223, but it's too late and many of the Juggernauts fly out into space as their crews as are assaulted, except for one who crash lands on nearby LV-426, let's out a beacon.  Knowing one way or another this is connected to the operation to rescue the Covenant crew from whatever SOS, they triangulate the position to the same Gas Giant, with the same set of moons that were considered quarantine, which the Prometheus went missing from. Intrigued if there might be survivors, or indeed, this hostile race staging an attack on Earth, they get a ship, the Nostromo, a beat up tug nobody would care if they got missing. To locate whatever happened to the Colonial troops far far away on Paradise. And to locate and retrieve whatever killed them off. Nobody would notice if they just simply died and they could intercept the Nostromo once it gets into the core systems on its way to Earth. But Ripley kind of f**ked that all up.

I think the most powerful take away from all of this in a plot sense, is David committed the largest scale genocide on the progenitors of life on Earth, and god knows life on Earth elsewhere throughout the cosmos.  David killed God. And nobody cares. And nobody, perhaps a select few, would know about it. It also explains why the company would want the Alien so badly as a weapon, as it was designed as an extremely potent population leveler, it was designed that way.

And really, for all David wanted to be God, creating his own life, his largest accomplishment in the deepest darkest untraveled part of space, nobody knew or appreciated his work. His goal in his life ultimately proving thankless.

It isn't word for word what I had in mind for a sequel, but it's pretty god damn close as just mental masturbation of where they could go from here. Which is either a plus for me a or a minus for Ridley for being so predictable.

To this, and virtually all of the above, I don't think Scott will have the budget for this kind of "epic showdown", but - who knows - you can do a lot with practical effects.

i want to see the engineers run a train on david and just decimate his ass

Quote from: question11 on Jun 22, 2017, 12:35:56 AM
i want to see the engineers run a train on david and just decimate his ass

We're talking about a Juggernaut like train, ramming him straight through a goddamn planet, obliterating him and it in the process, right? Now that would be the shit.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn-static.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeek%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_width%2Fpublic%2Fgigers-species-train.jpg%3Fitok%3DxWbuc-BN&hash=8fb54b317102e4cb2f31a4c74022349489531a96)

Toot-toot!

I like the sweeping shots, but lots of great films with smaller budgets increased creativity. Rocky and Alien are two that jump to mind.

Sir Ridley gave me a great birthday gift today with this information. This just sounds amazing.

I'm pretty sure that Fox will allow Sir Ridley to finish his trilogy. Hollywood likes name brands because they're a safer bet, and Fox doesn't have many other sci-fi brands with this name recognition. Independence Day 2 didn't do well at all, Planet of the Apes is on part three and the Predator is currently in production after its hiatus. Covenant had a crappy release date. Release it closer to Halloween where it has less competition and I'm sure it will do better (honestly, whoever said it was a good idea to release a niche horror movie in between two juggernaut tent poles instead of September should have their head(s) examined). It may go on hiatus again after that, but I think we'll get one more at least.

Good news indeed. I was worried he was sweeping them under the rug.

I like the Engineers, I just don't want them to be the Space Jockey. If they're a rival species then I'm all for em.

Quote from: Mr. Xenomorph on Jun 22, 2017, 02:05:05 AM
Sir Ridley gave me a great birthday gift today with this information. This just sounds amazing.

I'm pretty sure that Fox will allow Sir Ridley to finish his trilogy. Hollywood likes name brands because they're a safer bet, and Fox doesn't have many other sci-fi brands with this name recognition. Independence Day 2 didn't do well at all, Planet of the Apes is on part three and the Predator is currently in production after its hiatus. Covenant had a crappy release date. Release it closer to Halloween where it has less competition and I'm sure it will do better (honestly, whoever said it was a good idea to release a niche horror movie in between two juggernaut tent poles instead of September should have their head(s) examined). It may go on hiatus again after that, but I think we'll get one more at least.

They have to let him finish it or I'm literally going to b̶o̶m̶b̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶d̶q̶u̶a̶r̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ be really disappointed. I think Planet of the Apes is going to flop. Can't imagine this stuff having much of a pull nowadays, especially if all these other movies didn't.

I want a DRAGON ALIEN.

A funny trivia:

Ridley Scott said: "If I saw another Dragon, I'm going to kill myself". It was a joke because HIS TEAM wanted Dragons or some kind of a fusion between a Dragon and an Alien in ALIEN: COVENANT.

Where are we getting Marines from.... ? You guys have been playing too much PlayStation.

Quote from: LCpl. D. Grant on Jun 22, 2017, 12:24:31 AM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Jun 21, 2017, 10:09:23 PM
I made a thread the other day that basically near as hell echoes this plot as a direct way forward for the prequels. Just have the Engineers explore why their colony got straight f**ked, realize whatever human/android did this, and learning that its the Covenant. David arrives on Paradise, letting loose a beacon from the Covenant later on to attract other people who could carry the progeny of the Covenant crew that's been festering on "Paradise", what have you. And have the Engineers pissed as f**k their planet of origin suffered genocide, and you got a team that received David's SOS and arrive on paradise some time later. When the aliens get onboard whatever vessel the colonial military arrive on they self destruct, or perhaps not leading to the opening of another sequel.

And it all boils down to the complete genocide of the Engineers homeworld while learning of their culture from whomever followed the Colony Ship's SOS. Which would better explain this poster/marketing gimmick

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Fapp%2Fxalien-covenant-fill.jpg.pagespeed.ic.rPyCbS72Kx.jpg&hash=79513c8d53fc69e34a61487391ceddaf514f199e)

Whatever happens the last of the engineers mount a counter attack once and for all on Earth now that we pretty much ruined everything beyond their hopes and dreams, relay to the LV-223, but it's too late and many of the Juggernauts fly out into space as their crews as are assaulted, except for one who crash lands on nearby LV-426, let's out a beacon.  Knowing one way or another this is connected to the operation to rescue the Covenant crew from whatever SOS, they triangulate the position to the same Gas Giant, with the same set of moons that were considered quarantine, which the Prometheus went missing from. Intrigued if there might be survivors, or indeed, this hostile race staging an attack on Earth, they get a ship, the Nostromo, a beat up tug nobody would care if they got missing. To locate whatever happened to the Colonial troops far far away on Paradise. And to locate and retrieve whatever killed them off. Nobody would notice if they just simply died and they could intercept the Nostromo once it gets into the core systems on its way to Earth. But Ripley kind of f**ked that all up.

I think the most powerful take away from all of this in a plot sense, is David committed the largest scale genocide on the progenitors of life on Earth, and god knows life on Earth elsewhere throughout the cosmos.  David killed God. And nobody cares. And nobody, perhaps a select few, would know about it. It also explains why the company would want the Alien so badly as a weapon, as it was designed as an extremely potent population leveler, it was designed that way.

And really, for all David wanted to be God, creating his own life, his largest accomplishment in the deepest darkest untraveled part of space, nobody knew or appreciated his work. His goal in his life ultimately proving thankless.

It isn't word for word what I had in mind for a sequel, but it's pretty god damn close as just mental masturbation of where they could go from here. Which is either a plus for me a or a minus for Ridley for being so predictable.

To this, and virtually all of the above, I don't think Scott will have the budget for this kind of "epic showdown", but - who knows - you can do a lot with practical effects.

True, but editing goes along way...though, the editing of the last two movies left much to be desired (understatement of the century). I think if you edit  it so it's more a mystery than full on war, and leave the war to the end, this plot may well work. And what I predicted early is eerily familiar to this. The whole last part of the Company learning about the failed counter attack by the Engineers on their rendezvous to LV-223, and the signal on whatever band they picked up, that would definitely pike the interest of Weyland Yutani.

All that ending stuff could just be quick fan service at the end, some board room saying "Yeah but last few times we encountered them, it went all to hell". Then why not send some clunky space truckers on some god forsaken working class vessel, some Nostromo. Just send a droid, reroute it, and we'll pick up the contents later.

In this sense, David's extermination of the Engineers may have proven thankless, but perhaps beyond his "death", he got what he wanted. Humanity interested in the very creation he made to wipe them out. The SOS the Engineer sent to the now decimated fleet lost elsewhere in space, it landed near enough to hear. And curiosity killed the cat (well, not this time.)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_yN771lW01k/maxresdefault.jpg)

It makes Ripley's sacrifice at the end of Alien³, and it's religious subtext all that more relevant in the scheme of things. It's all very Monotheistic, and Ripley being a Christ like figure ridding the world of man's sins. A being which monstrously created the beast for no purpose but Armageddon. Maybe more of a Jean of Arc as Ridley previously put it. It certainly makes the monks have a lot more sense. Perhaps they're not religious for the sake of Christ, but rumors that God is out there in the cosmos, rumors and urban legends that out there somewhere God exists in our own image. But that's neither here nor there.

It's corny as hell, but put everything together it makes a kind of thematic sense. I think they can pull it off if they're conservative enough.

I hope I'm right, that this, I admit okay idea of concluding the prequels is what they're going for.  There's room for improvement but. Knowing Scott these days...................

It is time to see the "giant engineer/space jockey"... the engineer of engineers!!!

i just wish this was a more recent interview. .if it was done in the last week then i would allow mtself to get more excited. .but this was done before the underwhelming box office came into play. .i love where he is going with this. .the 4 factions and the return of the engineers. .i just hope it happens and we get our sequel!

Quote from: juxtapose on Jun 22, 2017, 08:15:01 AM
i just wish this was a more recent interview. .if it was done in the last week then i would allow mtself to get more excited. .but this was done before the underwhelming box office came into play. .i love where he is going with this. .the 4 factions and the return of the engineers. .i just hope it happens and we get our sequel!

I've been worried about that.  Everyone talks about it as if it's recent.  Know where we can see the full interview?

I have no clue. .sorry necrotard, it sounds very ambitious these plans of Ridley. .where he wants the series to go, sounds like a big budget affair and if the sequel gets greenlit he might not be able to follow these grand ideas with the budget that fox allows . . now we still have no clue if it's actually going anywhere. .it will be a sad day when we realize that covenant was the last we ever see of the franchise. .i don't wanne wait until i am old and grey either. .

So glad that engineers aren't dead. I knew it. They're coming back for vengeance. Aliens vs Engineers 2019. I said it first.

Found the full interview...  Sorry everyone, but I think this might indeed be old.  I can't find a date and everything's in Chinese.  Even with Chrome translating the page, I don't see a date anywhere.
http://video.mtime.com/66248/?mid=200612 (http://video.mtime.com/66248/?mid=200612)

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this is never going to happen after Covenant's disappointing performance  :(.

Okay, I found a news page with the interview connected to it.  The news story is dated for June 18th.  That's only one day later than the tag on the interview clip everyone has been sharing.  MAYBE it is new.  Maybe there is hope...
http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html (http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html)

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Jun 22, 2017, 04:24:42 AM

Quote from: LCpl. D. Grant on Jun 22, 2017, 12:24:31 AM

Quote from: NetworkATTH on Jun 21, 2017, 10:09:23 PM
I made a thread the other day that basically near as hell echoes this plot as a direct way forward for the prequels. Just have the Engineers explore why their colony got straight f**ked, realize whatever human/android did this, and learning that its the Covenant. David arrives on Paradise, letting loose a beacon from the Covenant later on to attract other people who could carry the progeny of the Covenant crew that's been festering on "Paradise", what have you. And have the Engineers pissed as f**k their planet of origin suffered genocide, and you got a team that received David's SOS and arrive on paradise some time later. When the aliens get onboard whatever vessel the colonial military arrive on they self destruct, or perhaps not leading to the opening of another sequel.

And it all boils down to the complete genocide of the Engineers homeworld while learning of their culture from whomever followed the Colony Ship's SOS. Which would better explain this poster/marketing gimmick

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alien-covenant.com%2Fapp%2Fxalien-covenant-fill.jpg.pagespeed.ic.rPyCbS72Kx.jpg&hash=79513c8d53fc69e34a61487391ceddaf514f199e)

Whatever happens the last of the engineers mount a counter attack once and for all on Earth now that we pretty much ruined everything beyond their hopes and dreams, relay to the LV-223, but it's too late and many of the Juggernauts fly out into space as their crews as are assaulted, except for one who crash lands on nearby LV-426, let's out a beacon.  Knowing one way or another this is connected to the operation to rescue the Covenant crew from whatever SOS, they triangulate the position to the same Gas Giant, with the same set of moons that were considered quarantine, which the Prometheus went missing from. Intrigued if there might be survivors, or indeed, this hostile race staging an attack on Earth, they get a ship, the Nostromo, a beat up tug nobody would care if they got missing. To locate whatever happened to the Colonial troops far far away on Paradise. And to locate and retrieve whatever killed them off. Nobody would notice if they just simply died and they could intercept the Nostromo once it gets into the core systems on its way to Earth. But Ripley kind of f**ked that all up.

I think the most powerful take away from all of this in a plot sense, is David committed the largest scale genocide on the progenitors of life on Earth, and god knows life on Earth elsewhere throughout the cosmos.  David killed God. And nobody cares. And nobody, perhaps a select few, would know about it. It also explains why the company would want the Alien so badly as a weapon, as it was designed as an extremely potent population leveler, it was designed that way.

And really, for all David wanted to be God, creating his own life, his largest accomplishment in the deepest darkest untraveled part of space, nobody knew or appreciated his work. His goal in his life ultimately proving thankless.

It isn't word for word what I had in mind for a sequel, but it's pretty god damn close as just mental masturbation of where they could go from here. Which is either a plus for me a or a minus for Ridley for being so predictable.

To this, and virtually all of the above, I don't think Scott will have the budget for this kind of "epic showdown", but - who knows - you can do a lot with practical effects.

True, but editing goes along way...though, the editing of the last two movies left much to be desired (understatement of the century). I think if you edit  it so it's more a mystery than full on war, and leave the war to the end, this plot may well work. And what I predicted early is eerily familiar to this. The whole last part of the Company learning about the failed counter attack by the Engineers on their rendezvous to LV-223, and the signal on whatever band they picked up, that would definitely pike the interest of Weyland Yutani.

All that ending stuff could just be quick fan service at the end, some board room saying "Yeah but last few times we encountered them, it went all to hell". Then why not send some clunky space truckers on some god forsaken working class vessel, some Nostromo. Just send a droid, reroute it, and we'll pick up the contents later.

In this sense, David's extermination of the Engineers may have proven thankless, but perhaps beyond his "death", he got what he wanted. Humanity interested in the very creation he made to wipe them out. The SOS the Engineer sent to the now decimated fleet lost elsewhere in space, it landed near enough to hear. And curiosity killed the cat (well, not this time.)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_yN771lW01k/maxresdefault.jpg)

It makes Ripley's sacrifice at the end of Alien³, and it's religious subtext all that more relevant in the scheme of things. It's all very Monotheistic, and Ripley being a Christ like figure ridding the world of man's sins. A being which monstrously created the beast for no purpose but Armageddon. Maybe more of a Jean of Arc as Ridley previously put it. It certainly makes the monks have a lot more sense. Perhaps they're not religious for the sake of Christ, but rumors that God is out there in the cosmos, rumors and urban legends that out there somewhere God exists in our own image. But that's neither here nor there.

It's corny as hell, but put everything together it makes a kind of thematic sense. I think they can pull it off if they're conservative enough.

I hope I'm right, that this, I admit okay idea of concluding the prequels is what they're going for.  There's room for improvement but. Knowing Scott these days...................

As disappointing as our experience is so far (and me still being one of those who prefers the mystery of the alien origins), this is actually quite a wonderful option of how the franchise could progress with the information we have. And the tie-in with Alien 3 is very unexpected, but brilliant. In Scott's mind it would make sense, I guess, seeing as he's obsessed with religious imagery. But I still believe the franchise is beyond saving at this point, and even if the next movie ties everything in as well as possible in the given circumstances... well, that's just it. "The given circumstances." :laugh: Being rescued from a pile of garbage still means there was a pile of garbage to being with.

Quote from: necrotard on Jun 22, 2017, 10:56:31 AM
Okay, I found a news page with the interview connected to it.  The news story is dated for June 18th.  That's only one day later than the tag on the interview clip everyone has been sharing.  MAYBE it is new.  Maybe there is hope...
http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html (http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html)

. .theirs glimmers of hope still. .thanks for the effort. .

Director Talk about sequel plot = 100% confirm movie will get made ?

No, it's not the director's money.

For crying out loud , all is wishfull thinking including Ridleys comments..............Fact:  final say is FOX !.....have they ok'd it ??.....what is the latest figures of AC ?..........has Fox earned money ?..........these guys are businessman !.......they don't give a ratsass of xeno's , neo's......they simply check the bottom figure.

Quote from: palerider on Jun 22, 2017, 02:06:55 PM
For crying out loud , all is wishfull thinking including Ridleys comments.

Indeed. The speculations in this thread have no basis in anything. We go to the planet. Which planet? Could be any planet! The engineers will come back. O-kay. They come back. But the Covenant is long gone. And Ridley clearly goes off on a tangent, forgetting where he is in the conversation. You can't take any of that seriously.

Could be Lv-426 but the players arrive at "paradise" and you still have Lv-223, its really unclear what he is saying, in fact he doesnt even know what he was saying hence asking the question twice.

Quote from: juxtapose on Jun 22, 2017, 12:31:09 PM

Quote from: necrotard on Jun 22, 2017, 10:56:31 AM
Okay, I found a news page with the interview connected to it.  The news story is dated for June 18th.  That's only one day later than the tag on the interview clip everyone has been sharing.  MAYBE it is new.  Maybe there is hope...
http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html (http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html)

. .theirs glimmers of hope still. .thanks for the effort. .

The interview wouldn't have been conducted on or near that date as Scott was already busy filming "All the Money in the World" in Rome by then. He wouldn't have time to do press interviews while shooting.

And even if he was aware of the miserable box office situation at the time he would still pretend that a Covenant sequel is still on the cards for now. Fox too. That's just how it works.

Would hardly call 220+ million miserable. It's disappointing, sure, but it's going to earn money. Keep in mind that all of us are going to buy the blu-ray and most of us probably also some merch.

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Jun 22, 2017, 07:46:46 PM

Quote from: juxtapose on Jun 22, 2017, 12:31:09 PM

Quote from: necrotard on Jun 22, 2017, 10:56:31 AM
Okay, I found a news page with the interview connected to it.  The news story is dated for June 18th.  That's only one day later than the tag on the interview clip everyone has been sharing.  MAYBE it is new.  Maybe there is hope...
http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html (http://news.mtime.com/2017/06/15/1570315.html)

. .theirs glimmers of hope still. .thanks for the effort. .

The interview wouldn't have been conducted on or near that date as Scott was already busy filming "All the Money in the World" in Rome by then. He wouldn't have time to do press interviews while shooting.

And even if he was aware of the miserable box office situation at the time he would still pretend that a Covenant sequel is still on the cards for now. Fox too. That's just how it works.

Miserable box office?.

This ISN'T like your Mummy(Tom Cruise), Female Ghostbusters, John Carter, King Arthur, etc....

Those are f*cking awful. Veritable box office disasters. Covenant is just miserable.

Perhaps for the best. RS's attempt at an Alien origin story perhaps should be compared to the attempt to bring back Ripley in A:R, both should be left up to debate. The Alien movies were always - at their core - about the immediate threat posed by the Aliens.

The moment he goes on a rambling then says "sorry I've lost the plot what was the question again?" Oh Ridley.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/q81/s480x480/19420844_10213461419868312_6860190118852346968_n.jpg?oh=49d9b11731188ad43e5167b1035cced9&oe=59D1E63F

I don't know, it's not like Fox has a huge catalog that are bringing in the bucks.  Outside of the XMen series, Planet of the Apes, Maze Runner, what else is there?  Boss Baby?  Snatched with Amy Shumer? Fantastic Four rebooted for the 4th time?
The leaked Predator script for sure spells disaster.  And if they are relying on Avatar sequels, they have to wait 4 more years (if A2 opens in 2020) before getting paid. 

I think they could easily do another Alien movie.  From the interview, I think Ridley is the one unsure what to focus on in the next film.

Quote from: LCpl. D. Grant on Jun 22, 2017, 09:00:24 PM
Perhaps for the best. RS's attempt at an Alien origin story perhaps should be compared to the attempt to bring back Ripley in A:R, both should be left up to debate. The Alien movies were always - at their core - about the immediate threat posed by the Aliens.

Please o pretty please with cherry on top.....lets forget Ripley........David F**king Fincher killed her fullstop

Quote from: XENOMORPHOSIS on Jun 22, 2017, 11:56:10 PM
The moment he goes on a rambling then says "sorry I've lost the plot what was the question again?" Oh Ridley.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/q81/s480x480/19420844_10213461419868312_6860190118852346968_n.jpg?oh=49d9b11731188ad43e5167b1035cced9&oe=59D1E63F

Newsflash: Everyone is. Lindelof, Cameron, Scott--everyone.

Quote from: holeyshirt18 on Jun 23, 2017, 03:20:09 AM
I don't know, it's not like Fox has a huge catalog that are bringing in the bucks.  Outside of the XMen series, Planet of the Apes, Maze Runner, what else is there?  Boss Baby?  Snatched with Amy Shumer? Fantastic Four rebooted for the 4th time?
The leaked Predator script for sure spells disaster.  And if they are relying on Avatar sequels, they have to wait 4 more years (if A2 opens in 2020) before getting paid. 

I think they could easily do another Alien movie.  From the interview, I think Ridley is the one unsure what to focus on in the next film.

I agree.

FOX lost its biggest franchise: Star Wars.

So, FOX needs Sir Ridley Scott, James Cameron and All A-List Directors.

Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

still, have to deal with it and accept it. i dont want to, but there's not much choice.

anyway, focusing on then what i personally think is one of the things that all other movies, except Cameron's, have failed in, is the ambience/atmosphere of the first movie.

the first movie was essentially a combination of 'sad, emptyness, lost, loneliness / desolation, darnkess, nightmare, worst case scenario, betrayal, constant danger, vastness of space'.

it was very dark, and very earthly/basic in hitting all the right negative emotions.

It was above all, the very opposite of what was going on in Hollywood back then, when everything sci-fi was more or less 'fantastic, fabolous, marvellous'.
Light, happyness, grand things.

Alien, then, was the opposite. cold and grim. A vast, empty space. following a absolutely normal, could say boring, standard, crew, of people doing nothing impressive, but doing labour work for little wage; mining. cliché work in space, but well, fitting. space exploration not of interest - mining resources ; thus business, trade, money. a ship that looked old and worn. nothing fantastic, nothing faboulous.
down-to earth, realistic stuff.

then first contact, nothing ever before, an ALIEN signal. wow. something that is completely not like anybody has ever seen, or seen designed before.
and it's also very, very dark. nothing fantastic, nothing magical. something dark and grim. realistic. and then shit happens. a parasite. not a battle of good vs evil. not a case of sudden interstellar war. not a case of humanity vs something else for planets or exploration or territory.

basic; survival when facing danger from a parasite, which is alien, and not a tiny thing, and all of that in the worst possible location; space. metal hull around you that could get damaged and you'd die. not a case of swordfighting, not a case of gunfighting, not a battle of equal power, but a battle against a creature, something, never seen before, that is dark, supernaturally strong, and fully hostile.

not a dumb crew, just a damn normal crew that faces stress from the situation and taking it's toll. just like in real life.


prometheus, covenant however are miles away from that.

marvellous, amazing, super high-tech super comfy ships and stuff. a wonderfull world with advanced technology, advanced medical technology,
space exploration goals, not sudden, unexpected contact with alien lifeforms, no, not a question of are there aliens, other lifeforms, or are we alone?
no, some cave drawings that claim humanity has been in contact with aliens for millenia, it's just a good while ago that it happened last, so, let's check out where they come from as that is what they seem to say / invite in those drawings.

an adventure story. not horror. not darkness. not scary stuff. not something new or interesting, just, a friggin adventure story that uses already existing stuff and smashes it into the storyline to grab viewers through hyping, instead of quality.
and then the adventure story is not at all about what we think, it's about a friggin mental robot, both in prometheus as in covenant.
characters we care about get killed off without honerable mention.

the elements that originally made it so mysterious and interesting, discarded and disregarded. the derelict ship? yeah, here it is, nothing to see here, normal. let's get in and out and not give attention. lets also not focus on an alien civilization, that seems some human parallels in romanesque architecture, nah. just a minute or so and lets implement bad cgi unneccesary murder and change it into a gay rape/violation movie.

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 23, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

Wow, dramatic, much?

"what I personally think is one of the things that all other movies, except Cameron's, have failed in, is the ambience/atmosphere of the first movie".


Exactly. We are operating behind the curtain now. It's not happening off somewhere in the darkness, the process is right in our face. We have humanoids interacting peacefully and openly with what should be an unseen creature of violent nature. What makes sharks so scary? The fact that any second this giant tooth-ridden maw could spring towards you from the murkiness. And you won't know it or see it until it's right on you, but you know there's a large predator out there somewhere, operating off a natural instinct...to hunt.


The thing that really struck me as a particularly interesting example in Covenant was Orams death. We knew what was going to happen to Oram, there was no surprise. It was just a dirty move by David, a humanoid creation. If Oram stumbled or fell into some dark hole on accident and you heard skittering, that's scary.  The music choice was alittle...odd, and the only other being in the room when this nightmare is born is a smiling android who the Alien doesn't even care about. Where's the tension? The flash of shimmering blackness, and a rapidly fading scream as someone is dragged far off into the night, that's scary. The bloody footprint scene onboard the covenant, that kind of shot is scary. Aliens in the daylight, David feeling android love for his Xeno babies, showing the neomorph stop, think, and physically access the temple? Not so much. We see, we're involved, we're behind the scenes. There's no distance, no room to create fear. But this is the David show, he's our Alien, "A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality". By golly he's great at it, but it's also become such a deeply philosophical sermon on artificial intelligence and introspection regarding human mortality, that it doesn't feel anything like an Alien movie.

Quote from: Huggs on Jun 23, 2017, 10:53:38 PM
"what I personally think is one of the things that all other movies, except Cameron's, have failed in, is the ambience/atmosphere of the first movie".


Exactly. We are operating behind the curtain now. It's not happening off somewhere in the darkness, the process is right in our face. We have humanoids interacting peacefully and openly with what should be an unseen creature of violent nature. What makes sharks so scary? The fact that any second this giant tooth-ridden maw could spring towards you from the murkiness. And you won't know it or see it until it's right on you, but you know there's a large predator out there somewhere, operating off a natural instinct...to hunt.


The thing that really struck me as a particularly interesting example in Covenant was Orams death. We knew what was going to happen to Oram, there was no surprise. It was just a dirty move by David, a humanoid creation. If Oram stumbled or fell into some dark hole on accident and you heard skittering, that's scary.  The music choice was alittle...odd, and the only other being in the room when this nightmare is born is a smiling android who the Alien doesn't even care about. Where's the tension? The flash of shimmering blackness, and a rapidly fading scream as someone is dragged far off into the night, that's scary. The bloody footprint scene onboard the covenant, that kind of shot is scary. Aliens in the daylight, David feeling android love for his Xeno babies, showing the neomorph stop, think, and physically access the temple? Not so much. We see, we're involved, we're behind the scenes. There's no distance, no room to create fear. But this is the David show, he's our Alien, "A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality". By golly he's great at it, but it's also become such a deeply philosophical sermon on artificial intelligence and introspection regarding human mortality, that it doesn't feel anything like an Alien movie.

I disagree.

ALIEN 3 had the same atmosphere of the original ALIEN.

And I love 2 scenes in PROMETHEUS and ALIEN: COVENANT:

1.- The Abortion scene in PROMETHEUS.

2.- The First Attack in ALIEN: COVENANT. With the deaths of that 1 man and 2 female(1 black female).

Ridley Scott is The King of Tension. He still creates VERY TENSE scenes.

Alien 3 is still the scariest of all the films to me. So I definitely agree that it's atmosphere was superb. I personally find Prometheus to be more dark in tone than Covenant. The atmosphere of the older films is what made them so entertaining to me as an individual. With covenant though, I just feel too much was shown, the "tracking the xenomorph" scene being a good example. Showing the neomorph infiltrate the building was yet another. The abortion scene from Prometheus looked physically taxing, but I don't find medical procedure scenes (even of that nature) to be tense or terrifying. The med-bay scene in Covenant was a more intriguing effort, but the excessive lighting and slashing with its little feetsies kind of dropped it down a notch for me. What can I say? I'm a sucker for fangs.

All things being equal, my favorite take-away from both the prequels has been Fassbender's performance. David is a truly unique character, and I've thoroughly enjoyed every moment he's on screen. Even the birthing scene. ::)  Scott can definitely build tension, but there's a certain distance way far out where if you can see things coming, there just not that scary.

---

To better word it, I think the prequels are good science fiction, but less-than stellar horror. Alien 1 - 3, were a beautiful blend of both. For example, Aliens hatching can still serve as a grotesque sight, but frightening doesn't mean grotesque and so on. Dallas's trek and death in the vents during the first film are a good example of that principle. Not a gross moment one, but still genuinely terrifying to this day. Having mouthbursters and backbursters in covenant brings shock value and plenty of "eews", but it's not what I would consider deftly weaved tension, or terror. The mouthburster especially, considering the backburster scene took place only moments before.

"Please o pretty please with cherry on top.....lets forget Ripley........David F**king Fincher killed her fullstop"

Wasn't Fincher though, it was Weaver.

This is another reason the Blomkamp/Weaver coven (pun intended I suppose) irritates me. I don't know, I get bored of typing out the same thing over and over, but the Hicks and Newt characters weren't involved with Alien 3 because Weaver has expressed in interviews, on camera that they story is about Ripley. Scripts were written without her involvement that focused on Hick, Newt and Bishop because she didn't want to return. A big pay check and an executive producer credit later...

How many closures does she want for the character?

She was the star the producers wanted after Aliens and they forego the other directions that had been written to accommodate her when she felt like returning for Alien 3.

Love her, but she's an arse.

Sorry for the awful typos.

Alien movies should be intelligent horrortropes first 2nd marines n smart action...or both as in Aliens...Cov got destroyed for dumb character actions... again..alien res style cgi..some of it worked....barely...protomorph juveniles were ehh...adult version better but again stupid dumb scenes were performed....same with original alien chap scenes, 80% were mediocre...poor planet and locations were chosen as landscape...many biomechanical aspects were absent...replaced by simple passe landscapes like earth, grass, caves..

The environment is done well, we never had that type of environment in an Alien film before (unless you count the forest in AVPR).  The New Zealand location gave it an exotic look, though.  It kind of looked mythic with the Roman style ruins ("when in Rome").

I don't know about you guys but the baby neomorphs were pretty tense to me. Like when a totally newborn baby headbutts its way through thick glass, I was hooked. I'm just sad that so many things were spoiled to me, I would've like the whole thing to be a surprise.

My two cents worth;

Third movie; (Hoping that there will be one)

The 4 horseman of the apocalypse.

1- David : Remember when the xeno bursted out of Oram, it raised and saluted David and David saluted him back. Also remember  David's interaction with the neo. He kind of controls them......a father/mother figure . Now 2000 souls makes 2000 xenos...........an army !

2-Engineers: Well Ridley said it, they are back.......now their goal is Revenge.

3- Weyland-Yutani: Ash - Bishop - David, they were all mesmerised by the species and I believe they have a way of communicating back with Weyland. So the third party will be Weylands people.....call it colonial marines or men in black....the cavalry......whatever.

4- I'm bit lost on this one .Could be the main new character introduced.......and I hope its Tom Hardy. ;D....Ripley and Daniels had done their share,
now we need a strong male character.

Quote from: palerider on Jun 24, 2017, 07:20:36 AM
My two cents worth;

Third movie; (Hoping that there will be one)

The 4 horseman of the apocalypse.

1- David : Remember when the xeno bursted out of Oram, it raised and saluted David and David saluted him back. Also remember  David's interaction with the neo. He kind of controls them......a father/mother figure . Now 2000 souls makes 2000 xenos...........an army !

2-Engineers: Well Ridley said it, they are back.......now their goal is Revenge.

3- Weyland-Yutani: Ash - Bishop - David, they were all mesmerised by the species and I believe they have a way of communicating back with Weyland. So the third party will be Weylands people.....call it colonial marines or men in black....the cavalry......whatever.

4- I'm bit lost on this one .Could be the main new character introduced.......and I hope its Tom Hardy. ;D....Ripley and Daniels have done their share,
now we need a strong male character.

4 could be the creators of the engineers, space jockeys.  They could be large and have elephant faces.  This would establish that the life form corpse on LV426 is an actual skeleton and the engineer space suits were merely designed to resemble their makers.

Good point.........agree.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 23, 2017, 10:48:35 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 23, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

Wow, dramatic, much?

no just an opinion. it's dramatic to cut away the context and then try to impose it as dramiatic while it isn't.
so what's your goal here then, huh?

BUT BUT BUT BUT HE KILLED ALL THE ENGINEERS!!!!! (OK, I'm being a jerk saying that but still...proving a point).

My only thought upon this interview is, we may have a larger chance to see another alien prequeal.

bad carma for the engineers, they created us and then decided. .nah we can do better so lets destroy this sinfull lot with black goo and then we can try to create something different, but their plans backfired and one of our creations bombs them with the same bioweapon intended for us. .how brilliantly ironic. .unfortunately the enemy of our enemy is not our friend either. .david is hell bent on destroing us with his xeno army. .trying to finish what the engineers started. .it all boils down to. .sometimes in order to create one must first destroy. .

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 24, 2017, 11:48:14 AM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 23, 2017, 10:48:35 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 23, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

Wow, dramatic, much?

no just an opinion. it's dramatic to cut away the context and then try to impose it as dramiatic while it isn't.
so what's your goal here then, huh?

Even in-context, it's overly dramatic. Boohoo muh mystery and hopelessness, it's now all adventures and gay cgi.

Quote from: Hughughug on Jun 24, 2017, 06:33:22 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 24, 2017, 11:48:14 AM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 23, 2017, 10:48:35 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 23, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

Wow, dramatic, much?

no just an opinion. it's dramatic to cut away the context and then try to impose it as dramiatic while it isn't.
so what's your goal here then, huh?

Even in-context, it's overly dramatic. Boohoo muh mystery and hopelessness, it's now all adventures and gay cgi.

Yeah, he's right, its pretty melodramatic.

If i had a dollar for everytime someone has said this series has been destroyed by "insert recently released alien film", I'de be rich.

Its been said for over 30 years.

ah so, all of a sudden, the AVP movies and Resurection are no longer turdpiles. funny.
a pile of turd is a pile of turd, no matter from what angle you look upon it.

also, the general reception of the movie, the reviews around here etc. show that it's just what the public is thinking.

there's nothing dramatic about saying it as it is.

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 24, 2017, 08:38:12 PM
ah so, all of a sudden, the AVP movies and Resurection are no longer turdpiles. funny.
a pile of turd is a pile of turd, no matter from what angle you look upon it.

also, the general reception of the movie, the reviews around here etc. show that it's just what the public is thinking.

there's nothing dramatic about saying it as it is.

People have been saying it since Aliens was released in 86, and when alien3 came out people said it ruined the franchise forever, but it didnt.

As for general reception, if you look at the polls here and even at Xenopedia the poll there, its actually generally well recieved. Not to mention its certified fresh on rotten tomatoes. Not a great film imo, but i did enjoyed it. It didnt perform great at the box office but its not a flop either. Really the reason it seams so bad around here is because people with a negative opinion  are always so much louder than those who are positive. So yeah you are being hyperbolic and melodramatic.  ;)

I hope Ridely gets to finish it because I like the sound of where he's going with this. War of the Worlds indeed. He'll probably have to cut down on epic nature of the story. That's sounds like it will cost more than Prometheus and Covenant combined.

First Fox has to green light it which won't be an easy sell for them.

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 24, 2017, 06:58:50 PM

Quote from: Hughughug on Jun 24, 2017, 06:33:22 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 24, 2017, 11:48:14 AM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 23, 2017, 10:48:35 PM

Quote from: cliffhanger on Jun 23, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Honestly, i'm very let down by Covenant as i think it's just a huge turdpile. Frankly, i've really lost a lot of hope in this movie, and it's more or less destroyed the franchise forever.

Wow, dramatic, much?

no just an opinion. it's dramatic to cut away the context and then try to impose it as dramiatic while it isn't.
so what's your goal here then, huh?

Even in-context, it's overly dramatic. Boohoo muh mystery and hopelessness, it's now all adventures and gay cgi.

Yeah, he's right, its pretty melodramatic.

If i had a dollar for everytime someone has said this series has been destroyed by "insert recently released alien film", I'de be rich.

Its been said for over 30 years.

A little bit of something does get destroyed with each movie though. Despite most of the back story's and extended Universe not being Canon ( and never will be), it's like there was always something left with Alien and Predator that you couldn't take away. That somewhere out there was just mysterious Alien creatures and I'll give you a small example.

I was reading the AVP comic book on the toilet yesterday, the 1990 original, it's a good little series and there was just a little niggle in the back of my brain, I already know this stuff doesn't exist, but now there's a voice saying "David made these Alien eggs, none of this stuff could have happened" It's stupid, really stupid, but it's there, and it's sort of makes you shake your head.

Even reading the fan letters was kind of sad, so much excitement and where's this going to go, when's the next issue! I dunno, it just felt like a little part of Alien was taken away.

I guess for a comparison it's like George Lucus giving us mediclorians. Nobody cares and the originals still stand, but that little fact is just sitting in the corner of the room somewhere smiling back at you.

Yeah and aliens turned them into mindless bugs with a dumb queen, totally ruining everything great and mysterious about the original film.

That may be true for some, just like David being the creator ruins it for some people too. Personally I can take each film as their own thing. For me ALIEN isnt hurt by Aliens, Aliens isnt ruined by Alien3, and A:R and the AvP films didnt destroy the whole franchise just because i dont really like them. I dislike the star wars prequels and the idea of midichlorians but it honestly didnt change how I feel about the original trilogy or the force.

When it comes to Covenant I found a lot to like and even though I dont like David being the creator either, it changes nothing about how I feel regarding the rest of the series. Besides I can easily believe that David only thinks he's the creator of the Alien and he's wrong just like he's wrong about who wrote Ozymandias (yes i know that belief upsets many around here).

Maybe its because, for me, its all just entertainement. I'm not usually the kind of person who takes movies and films seriously enough to get actually upset by them, AvPR possibly being the exception.

The problem is the timeline. They can do what they want after, but as soon as you step into prequel territory stuff starts to go South. I don't even mind the Star Wars Prequels because that was the plan from the start and there's back story in Episode 4. I mean guys want marines in the third prequel without thinking how utterly stupid that would be with regards to the timeline.

You don't have to care about what others think, I'm just telling you it's real, even if it's subtle and it kind of sucks just a little. Alien and Aliens will always remain classics, I don't have to worry about that.

Quote from: Highland on Jun 25, 2017, 03:40:42 AM
The problem is the timeline. They can do what they want after, but as soon as you step into prequel territory stuff starts to go South. I don't even mind the Star Wars Prequels because that was the plan from the start and there's back story in Episode 4. I mean guys want marines in the third prequel without thinking how utterly stupid that would be with regards to the timeline.

You don't have to care about what others think, I'm just telling you it's real, even if it's subtle and it kind of sucks just a little. Alien and Aliens will always remain classics, I don't have to worry about that.

I agree about the marines. It makes no sense for them to show up in the next installment. It'd be pure fan service, and I don't think it's going to happen. I want Ridley to finish his series, and then I'll anxiously await sequels to the original series.

Quote from: Highland on Jun 25, 2017, 03:40:42 AM
You don't have to care about what others think, I'm just telling you it's real, even if it's subtle and it kind of sucks just a little. Alien and Aliens will always remain classics, I don't have to worry about that.

Yeah and aliens ruining the series is real for some people too, doesn't mean it actually did.

I'm neutral on Ridley including marines.  He might just put them in for fan service like he did with the alien in Covenant.  Or he might actually do something interesting with it.  Since he did GI Jane and Black Hawk Down I'd imagine something along those lines.

The more of these things they release, the harder it gets to put this stuff out of your head when watching the originals. I've still not entirely gotten over the biomechanical suit deal from Prometheus, now if I go back and watch the classic scene where they "discover" the pilot in the original I'll never be able to not mentally flash on Ian Whyte in a bald cap.

What I like about Ridley is that he's pushing for it, and he has power. How much is hard to say but the old man has plans and he's pushing forward with those in mind. He's getting shit done. You could argue it's all bluster at this stage and he's just keeping up in appearances, fiddling while Rome burns, but honestly Covenant, while underwhelming in the eyes of many, has done relatively well, across the board, given its budget and the kind of film that it is. It's by no means a box office smash, but it's hardly the fall of an empire, either. At this stage, I think the old man's just sticking to his guns, like he has, all long. If he was truly worried, I think we'd know it, by now, but he doesn't seem to even be sweating it. Maybe because there's nothing to sweat?

Call me nuts if you want but I say Ridley knows exactly what he's doing.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 25, 2017, 05:43:12 AM
What I like about Ridley is that he's pushing for it, and he has power. How much is hard to say but the old man has plans and he's pushing forward with those in mind. He's getting shit done. You could argue it's all bluster at this stage and he's just keeping up in appearances, fiddling while Rome burns, but honestly Covenant, while underwhelming in the eyes of many, has done relatively well, across the board, given its budget and the kind of film that it is. It's by no means a box office smash, but it's hardly the fall of an empire, either. At this stage, I think the old man's just sticking to his guns, like he has, all long. If he was truly worried, I think we'd know it, by now, but he doesn't seem to even be sweating it. Maybe because there's nothing to sweat?

Call me nuts if you want but I say Ridley knows exactly what he's doing.

I'm sure he still has a hard time evaluating quality (or maybe he doesn't really care), but given the improvements from Prometheus to Covenant I can't help but feel that Awakening will be monstrous, if it is made.

What if 4th player is Dog-alien race from Out of the Shadows Novel ?

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Dog-alien

Fox: add them Ridley! or Movie will not get made !

Quote from: tleilaxu on Jun 25, 2017, 10:40:25 AM
I'm sure he still has a hard time evaluating quality (or maybe he doesn't really care), but given the improvements from Prometheus to Covenant I can't help but feel that Awakening will be monstrous, if it is made.

Define quality.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 25, 2017, 09:56:46 PM

Quote from: tleilaxu on Jun 25, 2017, 10:40:25 AM
I'm sure he still has a hard time evaluating quality (or maybe he doesn't really care), but given the improvements from Prometheus to Covenant I can't help but feel that Awakening will be monstrous, if it is made.

Define quality.

Just take Oram's death. I know he can't break the 4th wall like Deadpool, but the way it was handled was just bad writing. There was no reason for Oram to trust David enough to look into that egg.

I give that a moment a pass because Oram doesn't know anything about what David has created. Sure, it's not the best writing, but looking at it from Oram's perspective I think he was more curious than scared of what David's intentions. Also, David did show him what was going on like he asked him to so I can see Oram trusting him by that point.

Quote from: echobbase79 on Jun 26, 2017, 01:29:51 AM

I give that a moment a pass because Oram doesn't know anything about what David has created. Sure, it's not the best writing, but looking at it from Oram's perspective I think he was more curious than scared of what David's intentions. Also, David did show him what was going on like he asked him to so I can see Oram trusting him by that point.

Oram doesn't even need to trust David to be curious. He's also armed with an assault rifle. Hicks picked up a facehugger from an egg with the end of his shotgun in ALIENS just to get a closer look.

Exactly.

And David wasn't asking him to put his dick in it or anything.  He just said to take a look.

I personally would have felt safe enough to just LOOK into an egg from a distance that I assume to be safe.  Oram hasn't seen Alien.  He has no reason to expect a critter that can leap several yards to pop out.

I totally would have looked into that egg.

He knew David engineered dangerous organisms, and knew David was fascinated by them. I get the curiosity thing, but to me it just seems like they didn't really know how to kill him. He could've looked into it with his rifle pointed at it, missed the shot when the facehugger leaped at him or something. I mean it's not pet-alien-penis-snake tier bad but it was still annoying.

Quote from: Predaker on Jun 26, 2017, 01:47:53 AM
Hicks picked up a facehugger from an egg with the end of his shotgun in ALIENS just to get a closer look.

And that was stupid.  He was given a briefing by Ripley about those creatures.  So he should have known about the eggs.

It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers.  He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat.

That's assuming a lot.

What am I assuming?

Well you're assuming that "He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat." based on "It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers."

Quote from: tleilaxu on Jun 25, 2017, 10:14:41 PM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 25, 2017, 09:56:46 PM

Quote from: tleilaxu on Jun 25, 2017, 10:40:25 AM
I'm sure he still has a hard time evaluating quality (or maybe he doesn't really care), but given the improvements from Prometheus to Covenant I can't help but feel that Awakening will be monstrous, if it is made.

Define quality.

Just take Oram's death. I know he can't break the 4th wall like Deadpool, but the way it was handled was just bad writing. There was no reason for Oram to trust David enough to look into that egg.

Apparently it was scripted that David would demonstrate and look over the eggs first. It's a shame to loose little moments like that.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 26, 2017, 03:29:28 AM
Well you're assuming that "He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat." based on "It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers."

Nope.

I'm basing it on the live ones and the dead ones he saw in medical.  And the fact these don't have much skin and are mostly just bone.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Oram has seen the thing that killed his crew interact pacifically with David, David said 'it trusted me', David went on to show all of his experiments including flayed corpses and deformed people, admitted to using the white asshole faces as basis for his own creations and shows them to Oram. Totally safe!

There's looking at a space egg with your space helmet on and then there's this

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 26, 2017, 03:29:28 AM
Well you're assuming that "He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat." based on "It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers."

Maybe you should watch Aliens again...

I think Oram felt confident with his weapon in hand, especially after having killed the Neomorph already. Curiosity killed the Crudup.

Personally i would have prefered David to have torn Orams weapon away. Then drag him over to an egg and force him to look into it as it opens. That would have been terrifying imo. But the way it is now doesnt bother me much, just a missed opportunity.

Yeah, I was have really liked that too. There was scene in Spaihts' pre-Prometheus where David teased a facehugger out and onto Shaw. It could have been really cheesy but I think a scene like that, or like Buddy described, would be really awesome.

. .or david grabs the gun and throws oram down the stairs. .he flies down like a rag doll and breaks a leg . .bone sticking out and blood bubbling and guzzling from the wound. . A face hugger pops out of a near by egg and oram tries too flee. .he crawls backwards and screams. .a scream that is drowned out as the facehugger inbeds itself om his face. .he claws at it desperately but soon slips into a deep dark sleep. .

QuoteCuriosity killed the Crudup.

:laugh:

Quote from: 426Buddy on Jun 26, 2017, 11:47:55 AM
I think Oram felt confident with his weapon in hand, especially after having killed the Neomorph already. Curiosity killed the Crudup.

Personally i would have prefered David to have torn Orams weapon away. Then drag him over to an egg and force him to look into it as it opens. That would have been terrifying imo. But the way it is now doesnt bother me much, just a missed opportunity.

That sounds like a better way to go about it. But he probably felt in control of the situation, and maybe David let him keep his weapon for that reason, to lure him into a false sense of security?

Maybe Oram never watched any of the Alien movies.

When it came to Ridley Scott movies, Oram preferred Exodus.

Quote from: Hemi on Jun 26, 2017, 11:32:11 AM

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 26, 2017, 03:29:28 AM
Well you're assuming that "He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat." based on "It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers."

Maybe you should watch Aliens again...

Quote from: SM on Jun 26, 2017, 10:45:35 AM

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 26, 2017, 03:29:28 AM
Well you're assuming that "He knows what a dead facehugger looks like and that it poses no threat." based on "It was a dead and decomposed hugger in a pile of dead and decomposed huggers."

Nope.

I'm basing it on the live ones and the dead ones he saw in medical.  And the fact these don't have much skin and are mostly just bone.

It wasn't the facehuggers, it was the egg.  One of the marines goes and looks into an egg, knowing full well what could happen.

It was open and empty.  What was going to happen?

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 01:39:51 AM
When it came to Ridley Scott movies, Oram preferred Exodus.

Took me like several minutes to get that for some reason.

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 03:05:54 AM
It was open and empty.  What was going to happen?

They didn't know it was empty.  How would they know without looking?

Oram asked for answers and David provided them. Oram was the mouse and simply couldn't figure out that he was walking straight into a trap and then literally sprang the trap.

Quote from: Scorpio on Jun 27, 2017, 03:22:33 AM

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 03:05:54 AM
It was open and empty.  What was going to happen?

They didn't know it was empty.  How would they know without looking?

Exactly right.

It looked empty and he had a gun pointed straight at it.

Better that than not knowing.

Quote from: SM on Jun 27, 2017, 03:52:17 AM
It looked empty and he had a gun pointed straight at it.

Better that than not knowing.

It looked empty how??

He had a gun, so what.  Oram also had a gun.

Hicks knew what to expect.  Oram didn't, so had a torch pointed at it rather than a gun.

QuoteIt looked empty how??

By virtue of not having anything in it.

He didn't know it was empty, you can't tell standing from a distance, you have to look down into it.

The gun makes no difference, really.

Is it possible to shoot an attacking facehugger with a torch?

had the egg been just hatching hicks would've shot it.

This is a silly argument and a poor attempt to excuse the atrocious stupidity of Oram's abduction

Oram felt responsible for the failure of the Covenant. Using this built up frustration he kills the neomorph, confronts David, and follows him for answers. If he made one mistake it was following David by himself, but David wasn't going to let those eggs sit there with viable hosts running around on his planet for the first time in 10 years. He would have kidnapped someone to see what it would become, I can assure you. Oram was just easy pickings because he was so emotional and naive. Does it make him stupid? I would say the adrenaline and emotions clouded his judgement. It's amazing what duress can do to the mind. That's why I don't fault characters making bad decisions mid action sequence or after seeing someone brutally murdered. When they are not under duress and making these types of decisions, then yes, I'd call it stupid.

He had a gun which he'd just used succesfully, and David didn't. Why wouldn't he have a false sense of security?

This page in the thread inspired me to do a new video:



In Alien: Covenant, I wanted to examine David's behavior as an android, in the film, as well as Ridley's unique repeated use of the androids in the series versus other directors. Also, I had some ideas about where he's going to take the series, and why I think a sequel will inevitably get made.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 27, 2017, 06:53:55 AM
had the egg been just hatching hicks would've shot it.

This is a silly argument and a poor attempt to excuse the atrocious stupidity of Oram's abduction

I wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:49:06 PM

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 27, 2017, 06:53:55 AM
had the egg been just hatching hicks would've shot it.

This is a silly argument and a poor attempt to excuse the atrocious stupidity of Oram's abduction

I wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

I would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PM

I would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Is that a joke? I can't tell if that's serious or not.

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 27, 2017, 06:53:55 AMThis is a silly argument and a poor attempt to excuse the atrocious stupidity of Oram's abduction

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:49:06 PMI wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PMI would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Prequelitis has many symptoms, one of them being the paradoxical desire to experience reinvention and repetition simultaneously. Unfortunately, paradoxes are just so, and prequels will continue to suck.

- Dr. Hicks, PHD, USCM [A27/TQ4.0.48215E9]

Quote from: ChrisPachi on Jun 28, 2017, 12:37:16 PM

Quote from: Omegamorph on Jun 27, 2017, 06:53:55 AMThis is a silly argument and a poor attempt to excuse the atrocious stupidity of Oram's abduction

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:49:06 PMI wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PMI would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Prequelitis has many symptoms, one of them being the paradoxical desire to experience reinvention and repetition simultaneously. Unfortunately, paradoxes are just so, and prequels will continue to suck.

- Dr. Hicks, PHD, USCM [A27/TQ4.0.48215E9]

Your diagnosis seems accurate Doctor, however I did really like Covenant. Is this also part of the symptoms of Prequelitis?

Most arguments concerning "stupid" characters can be answered with "they are not actually aware they are characters in a horror movie".

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 27, 2017, 11:45:39 PM

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PM

I would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Is that a joke? I can't tell if that's serious or not.

Can't be totally confident but had to suppress a laughing fit based on this imagery (lest I wake the wife). So I enjoyed it.

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 27, 2017, 11:45:39 PM

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PM

I would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Is that a joke? I can't tell if that's serious or not.

It's basically what happened in Spaihts' draft.

Lethargic facehugger.

Reminds me of DotS, where all the facehuggers got put on by hand.  :laugh:

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 28, 2017, 03:24:04 PM

Quote from: NickisSmart on Jun 27, 2017, 11:45:39 PM

Quote from: BishopShouldGo on Jun 27, 2017, 06:52:36 PM

I would've preferred David sticking his hand in the egg, pulling out the facehugger, and tossing it towards Oram's face.

Is that a joke? I can't tell if that's serious or not.

It's basically what happened in Spaihts' draft.

I love the concept. Wasn't quite sure of it in Spaihts' drafts but I'd love to see something like that on screen, where it's shot all creepily.

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:49:06 PM
I wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

That would've been badass.

Quote from: LCpl. D. Grant on Jun 28, 2017, 08:36:41 PM

Quote from: TWJones on Jun 27, 2017, 06:49:06 PM
I wanted to see David overpower Oram and just shove his face into the egg.

That would've been badass.

As much as I defend the scene as it is, I do think this would have been creepier and more believable.

That would've worked far better actually. Why they didn't think of such a simple expedient is beyond me.

I don't really think it fits David's character, though. I like the way it is in the film. It's similar to the way he infected Holloway. He kills them, but not directly like a human would do. It's almost like he's trying to justify what he does to them, because in his view what he's doing to them isn't wrong at all.   
David just forcing Oram to look inside the egg is a bit silly and out of character, in my opinion. But, one could argue that David is out of character for most of the film.  :P

David holding Oram down and shoving his face into the egg would have been PERFECT in the context of the movie. I feel like Scott already tried to show (arguably successfully) David's true contempt for humans by how he acted when nobody else was around (attempting to violate Daniels, shoving the patch onto Lope's face, throwing stones at Oran's body). Him shoving Oram's face into the egg would have worked brilliantly.

One thing I don't get, is why would David try to violate Daniels? He even says something along the lines of ''Now I see why Walter thought so much of you.'' Wait, he's admiring Daniels? Why? I thought he hated humans.. Except for Shaw, I guess.

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 28, 2017, 09:28:27 PM
One thing I don't get, is why would David try to violate Daniels? He even says something along the lines of ''Now I see why Walter thought so much of you.'' Wait, he's admiring Daniels? Why? I thought he hated humans.. Except for Shaw, I guess.

As far as I am concerned, that is a pretty complicated question. In short, rape tends to be a power thing, and showing that you are more powerful over somebody with traits you admire is more of a "win" than violating somebody who is spiteful or weak.

Basically

"(He) wanted to destroy something beautiful."

I'm sure there could be a lot of discussion on this topic alone because it tends to be a touchy and complicated issue but this is my perspective on why he killed Shaw and attempted to violate Daniels.

Yeah, that does make sense actually.

Man, David has become such a creep...

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 28, 2017, 10:39:55 PM
Yeah, that does make sense actually.

Man, David has become such a creep...

He wanted his children to be born. What are few lab rats compared to his love?

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 28, 2017, 09:12:57 PM
I don't really think it fits David's character, though. I like the way it is in the film. It's similar to the way he infected Holloway. He kills them, but not directly like a human would do. It's almost like he's trying to justify what he does to them, because in his view what he's doing to them isn't wrong at all.   
David just forcing Oram to look inside the egg is a bit silly and out of character, in my opinion. But, one could argue that David is out of character for most of the film.  :P

I totally understand where you're coming from, although I do think that David has this undercurrent of violence throughout the entire film, which we see when he stabs Walter, and when he overpowers Daniels. So to me, I do think that grabbing Oram by the hair and shoving his face into an egg that's just beginning to open would make sense.

In fact, I would have liked to have seen Oram say "No, I'm not looking in there. You tell me what it is." And then to see David get really frustrated that things aren't going according to plan, until he finally "loses his composure" and forces Oram's face just above the egg.

It would have removed the silliness of Oram just blindly looking into an egg when it's apparent that David is not right, and his lab is full of horrific creatures, and they've been under attack by horrific creatures. Obviously, something cute and cuddly is not inside the egg. I would have felt a lot different about this whole scene if Oram had shown a little more caution.

Apprently, Billy Crudup didn't even want to do it this way. He and Ridley had a bit of an argument about Oram just looking inside the egg. Crudup said, "No way, I know what happens when people look into it." And then he backed away. Ridley said, "Just look in the god damn egg."

So the set up was there to have it done a different way.

Subvert the expectations, I say. Take something recognizable, and do it a differently, do it in a way that gets to the same goal, just by a different route.

Quote from: Evanus on Jun 28, 2017, 09:28:27 PM
One thing I don't get, is why would David try to violate Daniels? He even says something along the lines of ''Now I see why Walter thought so much of you.'' Wait, he's admiring Daniels? Why? I thought he hated humans.. Except for Shaw, I guess.

I think it is a testament to the idea that there are serious repercussions involved in meddling with the natural order of things. The Androids and the Engineers' biotechnology always seemed to me to be Scott's ways of saying we're not as important in the universe as we may seem, and that for each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, a sort of failsafe - if you will. We and the Engineers developed weapons of mass destruction, compelling the fundamental laws of nature to react in kind. David's programming has been rendered "all other priorities rescinded", and has fallen into a psychological undertow beckoned forth by said unwritten laws. David marvels at the hive intelligence of the motes in awe, as if he worships it. "Creation", the raw drive to reproduce and multiply. Humanity has their 'gods', David has his 'creation'. Stealing fire from said 'gods' and destroying them with it. It all makes sense, really.