Despite being a quite known actor and having a considerable screen time, I think Lope is one of the least interesting main characters in the entire franchise - even minor characters from Alien 3 or just about anyone from Resurrection had more personality. Was he always that way? Or was it a result of some script revision?
Does anyone else feel the same way? Did you feel like he added anything to the movie?
Lope is hardly Robinson Crusoe here. Apart from David and Walter, Oram is the most interesting character in Covenant. Possibly the only interesting character. Which isn't great for Daniels.
The gay angle was dialled all the way down, and he didn't get to mourn Hallet. But Oram barely got to mourn Karine too, and T was cracking jokes after they got back to the ship despite his wife being dead. They had couples in the film, but often carry on as if the dead were barely just people they met once. If they had space to react a bit more to the deaths, it may have developed the characters a bit more. How Daniels copes with Jacob's death is all we know, because we never saw what she was like before.
Quote from: SM on Mar 28, 2024, 09:32:14 PMLope is hardly Robinson Crusoe here. Apart from David and Walter, Oram is the most interesting character in Covenant. Possibly the only interesting character. Which isn't great for Daniels.
The gay angle was dialled all the way down, and he didn't get to mourn Hallet. But Oram barely got to mourn Karine too, and T was cracking jokes after they got back to the ship despite his wife being dead. They had couples in the film, but often carry on as if the dead were barely just people they met once. If they had space to react a bit more to the deaths, it may have developed the characters a bit more. How Daniels copes with Jacob's death is all we know, because we never saw what she was like before.
I can't remember T doing jokes after knowing his wife it's dead 🤔 yes in the first half of the movie but no latter of knowing that
Gag about Phantom of the Opera while Lope was getting treated. He had a brief scene with Daniels while she was cooking eggs and they shared a hug but the only real reaction we got was when Daniels told him Faris was dead. And to be fair it was a good scene, but there's an overall feeling as if all the death of actual loved ones was quickly forgotten. Faris was one of Daniels closest friends and there's really no reaction at the time or later.
And Lope got done pretty dirty by making it that far then dying off screen.
And I say all this as someone who likes the film more than most.
It doesn't help that the introductions to the character is basically a short film that is seperate from the movie. People should not have to watch a seperate vid to get an understanding of the characters in the movie (regardless whether or not the short actually adds anything)
Quote from: SM on Mar 28, 2024, 09:32:14 PMLope is hardly Robinson Crusoe here. Apart from David and Walter, Oram is the most interesting character in Covenant. Possibly the only interesting character. Which isn't great for Daniels.
The gay angle was dialled all the way down, and he didn't get to mourn Hallet. But Oram barely got to mourn Karine too, and T was cracking jokes after they got back to the ship despite his wife being dead. They had couples in the film, but often carry on as if the dead were barely just people they met once. If they had space to react a bit more to the deaths, it may have developed the characters a bit more. How Daniels copes with Jacob's death is all we know, because we never saw what she was like before.
Karin and Farris were interesting characters that unfortunately played lesser roles (they're excellent actresses otherwise), T was mostly for comedic relief but also kind of evolved during the movie somewhat, becoming a pillar for Daniels. Oram was the single most interesting character (outside David/Walter) and because of his loss, he started bonding with Daniels which was useful for the dramatic purposes of the movie.
Lope was just a reliable, quiet military type and added nothing for others to interact with. Even Ricks and Upworth were shown to have distinctive personalities and actually had some good comments about what was going on.
The couples theme was interesting but I think ultimately heavily underutilized. If movie was allowed to be 2.5h then maybe, along with all antagonistic exchanges between AIs, it could've been more fleshed out in this respect.
Upworth and Ricks were totally underdevelopped though. They mainly are there for the shower scene.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Mar 29, 2024, 01:04:01 PMIt doesn't help that the introductions to the character is basically a short film that is seperate from the movie. People should not have to watch a seperate vid to get an understanding of the characters in the movie (regardless whether or not the short actually adds anything)
Last Supper doesn't introduce the characters for the film, nor does it help us understand them (particularly since two main characters in Tennessee and Karine say things that are out of character). The whole thing is fun but completely disposable.
The film introduces everyone it needs to ie. Daniels, Walter, and Oram just fine. Nearly everyone else is pretty much just along for the ride. The problem is that as a lead character, Daniels just isn't that interesting. Waterson did a good job with what she was given, but she wasn't given much.
I actually hate The Last Supper, it sucks.
Quote from: SM on Mar 29, 2024, 08:43:44 PMQuote from: The Cruentus on Mar 29, 2024, 01:04:01 PMIt doesn't help that the introductions to the character is basically a short film that is seperate from the movie. People should not have to watch a seperate vid to get an understanding of the characters in the movie (regardless whether or not the short actually adds anything)
Last Supper doesn't introduce the characters for the film, nor does it help us understand them (particularly since two main characters in Tennessee and Karine say things that are out of character). The whole thing is fun be completely disposable.
The film introduces everyone it needs to ie. Daniels, Walter, and Oram just fine. Nearly everyone else is pretty much just along for the ride. The problem is that as a lead character, Daniels just isn't that interesting. Waterson did a good job with what she was given, but she wasn't given much.
She wasn't given much, that's true. The only things that elevated her as character were exchanges with Oram and Walter. Conceptually, she kind of worked as a reluctant, emergent hero with Cassandra complex.
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 29, 2024, 09:28:05 PMI actually hate The Last Supper, it sucks.
Happy Good Friday! :laugh:
I agree. I'm all for all the other viral shorts, but really detested that one.
Oram is better than Fifield and David combined? :o
...by the way, the head is the trully gem character out there🤓👉👈
(https://s6.gifyu.com/images/S6cFh.gif)
David in Prometheus was the only interesting character in either film, fight me.
I would argue he was less interesting in Covenant as he became far less ambiguous.
aye, the
Dr. Moreau-Frankenstein hybrid gothic Bond-like villain from
Covi doesn't quite work as a satisfying payoff for the more mysterious David's presence in
Promi. Although it works as its own thing...almost like a 'what if' scenario. ???
When you watch
Raised By Wolves, with everything and Dariusz Wolski's cinematography
*no less*, it seems like a blood relative/spiritual successor to Ridley Scott's Alien prequel narrative; eerie-eldritch AIs, creation, existential horror, monsters, ancient mythology, science vs. Religion...etc.
(https://i.ibb.co/SsdRKFF/Screen-Shot-2020-10-01-at-9-32-17-PM.jpg)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SVcPS.gif)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SVcX8.gif)
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 29, 2024, 09:28:05 PMI actually hate The Last Supper, it sucks.
Feel too much like the last supper in Alien?
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 29, 2024, 09:28:05 PMI actually hate The Last Supper, it sucks.
Blasphemy !!!
Blaspheming over the Easter weekend just feels better than usual.
Quote from: E. Shaw on Mar 31, 2024, 07:21:10 PMQuote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Mar 29, 2024, 09:28:05 PMI actually hate The Last Supper, it sucks.
Feel too much like the last supper in Alien?
Not really. It's obviously riffing on that, but it's just inconsequential. The most interesting thing about it was Walter making them take poo tablets before bedtime.
Poo tablets? ???
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Mar 30, 2024, 12:11:37 AMaye, the Dr. Moreau-Frankenstein hybrid gothic Bond-like villain from Covi doesn't quite work as a satisfying payoff for the more mysterious David's presence in Promi. Although it works as its own thing...almost like a 'what if' scenario. ???
When you watch Raised By Wolves, with everything and Dariusz Wolski's cinematography *no less*, it seems like a blood relative/spiritual successor to Ridley Scott's Alien prequel narrative; eerie-eldritch AIs, creation, existential horror, monsters, ancient mythology, science vs. Religion...etc.
(https://i.ibb.co/SsdRKFF/Screen-Shot-2020-10-01-at-9-32-17-PM.jpg)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SVcPS.gif)
(https://s9.gifyu.com/images/SVcX8.gif)
Raised By Wolves was so good. I thought it was in Alien mythos much of the time.
I think the Alien Covenant: Origins book might have fleshed out his backstory a bit more, but that book is rather forgettable.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 12:13:09 AMQuote from: Local Trouble on Mar 31, 2024, 10:28:03 PMPoo tablets? ???
Purgative.
I was expecting something like this:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/10/11/355126926/frozen-poop-pills-fight-life-threatening-infections
Quote from: Wweyland on Apr 01, 2024, 07:27:53 AMI think the Alien Covenant: Origins book might have fleshed out his backstory a bit more, but that book is rather forgettable.
He's the main character but doesn't flesh him out to any great degree.
Quote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 08:02:22 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 01, 2024, 07:27:53 AMI think the Alien Covenant: Origins book might have fleshed out his backstory a bit more, but that book is rather forgettable.
He's the main character but doesn't flesh him out to any great degree.
I remember actually very much enjoying the time spent with him in the book.
Although the movie novelization was much better, they kind of "forgot" all their previous book characterizations, but then again, they were written out of order.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Apr 02, 2024, 08:18:08 AMQuote from: SM on Apr 01, 2024, 08:02:22 AMQuote from: Wweyland on Apr 01, 2024, 07:27:53 AMI think the Alien Covenant: Origins book might have fleshed out his backstory a bit more, but that book is rather forgettable.
He's the main character but doesn't flesh him out to any great degree.
I remember actually very much enjoying the time spent with him in the book.
I liked the book, but it's not a character study. We learn almost nothing about Lope and Rosenthal as people.
Oram's religious fanaticism is interesting.
That's there in the film though. It would've been interesting having someone question why Lope and Halley were on a colonisation mission and have him set them straight (so to speak). But his sexual preference was almost completely ignored. Not even used as a pay off for Rosey thinking Lope was cracking on to her.
Quote from: SM on Apr 02, 2024, 09:07:03 PMThat's there in the film though. It would've been interesting having someone question why Lope and Halley were on a colonisation mission and have him set them straight (so to speak). But his sexual preference was almost completely ignored. Not even used as a pay off for Rosey thinking Lope was cracking on to her.
Origins mentions that the security crew of the Covenant weren't required to be couples. Lope and Hallet being part of the security team just also happened to be partners.
There was also Ledward, Ankor, Rosie, and Cole, none of whom were couples.
Rosey did have a partner apparently, but she was having affair. Though I might be wrong but I remember it being mentioned somewhere.
Quote from: The Cruentus on Apr 13, 2024, 08:58:27 PMRosey did have a partner apparently, but she was having affair. Though I might be wrong but I remember it being mentioned somewhere.
Tess Haubrich, who plays Rosenthal, provided conjecture that she thought her and Alex England's characters are having a fling while both of their partners are in hypersleep.
There's a flirty moment in Covenant between the two of them once they've landed on Planet IV, but there's nothing about them having actual partners.
An earlier draft had Cole saying he had a wife and stage one embryo on the ship. Per Origins, Rosey was on her own.