Prey Catch All Thread

Started by Corporal Hicks, May 22, 2021, 07:54:07 AM

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Prey Catch All Thread (Read 317,055 times)

SiL

SiL

#2415
He's not tracking her at the end, she had to lure him. That's the point. She had to prove she's worth his time.

But this is besides the point.

Engineer

Engineer

#2416
No, she lured him, because she was hiding herself. She used bait so she could finally have the advantage and surprise him. But he was still tracking her. Dutch lured jungle hunter too for the same reason; so he could stay hidden and finally give himself the advantage, but that doesn't change the fact that jungle hunter was actively hunting him.

I'm not arguing that she didn't have to prove her self as worthy prey (which Dutch didn't have to do at that point in the movie). It is common for hunters to track a target then decide not to kill it for some reason. For example, a deer hunter tracking a deer then seeing it's a youngster and deciding to Leave it be in favor of one with a bigger rack (more trophy worthy). But regardless, tracking a target is part of hunting even if it doesn't end in a kill, and feral absolutely tracked naru from the moment he heard her dog bark. What feral's reasoning was for tracking her is the only real mystery, and you can fill in that gap with your imagination. But nonetheless the movie shows us that feral is tracking her, absolutely.

SiL

SiL

#2417
Which, again, is entirely besides the point.

Engineer

Engineer

#2418
Quote from: SiL on Oct 27, 2022, 07:43:41 PMWhich, again, is entirely besides the point.

How is it besides the point? Lol it was hunting her. Tracking her. It's shown on screen. It is the point.

ralfy

ralfy

#2419
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Oct 27, 2022, 03:24:54 AMI've seen the facebook comments and they are often made by old people or very insecure men, 80% of which haven't watched the movie


Quote from: ralfy on Oct 27, 2022, 02:45:48 AMAwful movie, with a Mary Sue character, lack of characterization for protagonists in general (unlike in the first, where one can sympathize with not only Dutch but with the rest of his crew), and a stupid predator.
Incase this is serious (I hope it isn't)

 A Mary Sue is a perfect character who is perfect at everything and that everyone loves, Naru is disliked by the hunters in her Tribe, mocked and looked down upon by her family and her skills are flawed and she constantly f**ks up through the movie, so she can't be a Mary Sue.

 Naru has way more characterization in this than Dutch had in the first movie (Dutch was the least developed character in that movie when you take in count how much screen time he had). Naru at the start is shown as cocky, confident and unskilled in the areas she wants to be skilled at the most, constantly failing to properly do the things she sets out to do, halfway through she starts adapting and improving, but still failing due to her own cockiness or lack or preparation, for instance, she constantly does things without thinking of the what will happen next, like attacking the bear or engaging in a fight with her own tribesmates. It's only AFTER she loses something dear to her that she properly plans out her actions and truly succeeds.

 Feral isn't stupid, specially when compared to JH, CH, Fugitive and Wolf. He never does something downright stupid, but instead reckless because he is sure he will get away with it, he rushes at the Wolf and Bear because he knows he can kill them, he avoid using his own gear because he wants to have fun fighting them, the only times he gets surprised for rushing in is when the Trappers ambush him, and even then he quickly takes control of the situation and kills all of them.

She's a Mary Sue because she easily counters several grown men, is the star of the movie (any other protagonists are forgettable or are used as foils for her advancement, like Andolini and co., and even those she considers dear), in appearance reminds me more of a SoCal gal rather than a Native American who probably had life expectancy rates lower than 30 years, in mannerism and thought is very much a woke post-modern American, as she is cocky (with cute scenes of her and her dog trekking alone) until she gets into trouble, and so on.

In contrast, the characterization of Dutch is much better, especially when all that arrogance rots due to overconfidence. Meanwhile, he's not a Gary Sue as his fellow protagonists are very-well developed, and humorous dialogue is even added to allow viewers to sympathize with them, from the hotheaded Blain, his best friend Mac (two contrasting figures), to the brooding and stoic Billy, wise-cracking Hawkins, and so on, but it's the ending that attests to that, as in despair Dutch realizes that the only way to defeat the predator is to use low levels of technology, guile, and himself as bait.

Even the much-hated second Predator movie still retained such character development.

But in this case, the star and only one that matters is Naru, and from the get-go the movie is filled with mostly spectacle (in contrast to movies like Aliens, where the action takes off only in the latter half or third of the film). I'm not surprised that contemporary viewers did not see these issues in Prey, because I'm guessing that they are seeing the older movies through the lenses of modern ones, which essentially involve cramming as much content as possible and making clear delineations between good and evil.

Finally, I think anyone should have expected this in Prey, because probably like the Aliens, Mad Max, and other franchises, producers are essentially rebooting the franchise. That is, viewers can watch this movie without having seen the previous ones, and young viewers (the "sweet spot" for demographics) can appreciate such films if young people star in them as Mary Sues and Gary Stus. After that, I won't be surprised if they start remaking the older movies and refashioning them in the same way.






PAS Spinelli

PAS Spinelli

#2420
 So she's a mary sue for being a better warrior than a bunch of fur trappers? That's such a dumb argument. Everything else said in your first paragraph is downright stupid so I won't bother to address it.

 Dutch is not a Gary Stu because... the characters around him are developed? Everyone around Dutch loves him and he is good at everything, he is by definition a Gary Stu lmfao.

 Oh wow, a movie with only 2 main characters only has them mattering, who would have seen that coming!

 Trying to downplay people that disagree with you as "contemporary" is not a good look, maybe instead of blaming people for being in the present, blame yourself for not being able to leave the past.

Mr.Turok

Mr.Turok

#2421
Quote from: PAS Spinelli on Oct 28, 2022, 02:47:36 AMSo she's a mary sue for being a better warrior than a bunch of fur trappers? That's such a dumb argument. Everything else said in your first paragraph is downright stupid so I won't bother to address it.

 Dutch is not a Gary Stu because... the characters around him are developed? Everyone around Dutch loves him and he is good at everything, he is by definition a Gary Stu lmfao.

 Oh wow, a movie with only 2 main characters only has them mattering, who would have seen that coming!

 Trying to downplay people that disagree with you as "contemporary" is not a good look, maybe instead of blaming people for being in the present, blame yourself for not being able to leave the past.
Let's not forget that JH's plasma shots bursts a hole in Mac's head, a hole in Blain's chest, blown Dillon's arm off, and into Poncho's head, but Dutch get's hit on the shoulder and it's just a flesh wound. If Naru gotten the Dutch treatment, she would have been called a mary sue into oblivion, but you don't see that gary stu shit on Dutch huh?

Ralfy's opinion is no different from every other bloke that walked in here, thinking they got something smart to say about how dumb the film is, none of ya got a difference in opinion. "Film is bad cuz girl"  :laugh: Smooth brains, all of ya.

SiL

SiL

#2422
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 27, 2022, 09:00:59 PMHow is it besides the point?
The point is the attack on the bear being dumb or not, not whether it was following Naru or not.

Feral is dumb but incredibly strong. Naru is smart, but physically weaker. Feral survives situations because of his toughness, not because of any real skill or ability; Naru survives situations because of skill and ability, not because she's particularly tough.

The characters are contrasts of each other. Feral making dumb decisions that work out in his favour is pretty on point with the themes of the stories and characters.

Quote from: Mr.Turok on Oct 28, 2022, 04:58:16 AMLet's not forget that JH's plasma shots bursts a hole in Mac's head, a hole in Blain's chest, blown Dillon's arm off, and into Poncho's head, but Dutch get's hit on the shoulder and it's just a flesh wound.
He doesn't get shot; his gun does. His shoulder is hit by the shrapnel (it's described in the script and you can see it if you frame-by-frame the animation.)

Engineer

Engineer

#2423
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2022, 05:04:25 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 27, 2022, 09:00:59 PMHow is it besides the point?
The point is the attack on the bear being dumb or not, not whether it was following Naru or not.

Feral is dumb but incredibly strong. Naru is smart, but physically weaker. Feral survives situations because of his toughness, not because of any real skill or ability; Naru survives situations because of skill and ability, not because she's particularly tough.

The characters are contrasts of each other. Feral making dumb decisions that work out in his favour is pretty on point with the themes of the stories and characters.

Quote from: Mr.Turok on Oct 28, 2022, 04:58:16 AMLet's not forget that JH's plasma shots bursts a hole in Mac's head, a hole in Blain's chest, blown Dillon's arm off, and into Poncho's head, but Dutch get's hit on the shoulder and it's just a flesh wound.
He doesn't get shot; his gun does. His shoulder is hit by the shrapnel (it's described in the script and you can see it if you frame-by-frame the animation.)

Why is it dumb that feral decided to fight a bear in CQC, but it's not dumb when any of the other predators in the past movies made equivalent decisions?

SiL

SiL

#2424
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:19:04 AMWhy is it dumb that feral decided to fight a bear in CQC, but it's not dumb when any of the other predators in the past movies made equivalent decisions?
When did I say no other Predator did anything stupid ever?

Wolf does nothing but stupid shit.

(I did have an earlier version of this post I revised because I remembered all of the dumb stuff that other Predators did -- but I don't see why that's relevant?)

Engineer

Engineer

#2425
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2022, 05:23:14 AMThe Predators in past movies had hunted on Earth before and knew what they were dealing with. We can consider their risks calculated.

This is supposed to be Feral's first time on Earth and he throws hands with something almost twice his size he's never seen before.

There is a very clear difference.

First time on earth doesn't mean he's completely ignorant about the creatures here. You want a reasonable head-canon explanation? He had a mentor who came to earth before him and told him all about the bears lol

I really don't see any difference. I'll go back to city hunter again. He dropped into a train having no idea who or what was inside. Feral at least could see what he was about to go toe-to-toe with, But somehow he's still dumber than city hunter? Or dropping in on the Colombians, several of them, armed to the teeth with military grade weapons; clearly a more dangerous situation to just drop in on than facing off with a bear... doesn't matter how many times city hunter had been to earth, he still went into those situations haphazardly, and completely blind in the case of the train.  Yet none of that was dumb? Why was city hunter so confident he'd win those fights?

SiL

SiL

#2426
That was my old reply but hey:

Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:34:25 AMI really don't see any difference. I'll go back to city hunter again. He dropped into a train having no idea who or what was inside.
I'd say he knew there were humans inside because he's been on Earth before and knows that dropping down on people makes them confused and ineffective. As he had demonstrated in the movie already and would do again.

If the characterisation of City Hunter was "He's never been to Earth before" then I would say he was as dumb as Feral, yes.

Engineer

Engineer

#2427
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2022, 05:25:06 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:19:04 AMWhy is it dumb that feral decided to fight a bear in CQC, but it's not dumb when any of the other predators in the past movies made equivalent decisions?
When did I say no other Predator did anything stupid ever?

Wolf does nothing but stupid shit.

(I did have an earlier version of this post I revised because I remembered all of the dumb stuff that other Predators did -- but I don't see why that's relevant?)
I'm not saying you ever said other predators never did anything dumb. But that seems to be your biggest gripe with this particular movie... that feral was dumb. But, his actions aren't any dumber than literally any other predator at some point in their respective films; do you have the same gripes about those films? If not, why?
And it's relevant because again, feral is no dumber than any of the others. So if you're ok with something like city hunter going into a room full of armed people blind, why is that ok but feral fighting a bear is not?


Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2022, 05:37:16 AMThat was my old reply but hey:

Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:34:25 AMI really don't see any difference. I'll go back to city hunter again. He dropped into a train having no idea who or what was inside.
I'd say he knew there were humans inside because he's been on Earth before and knows that dropping down on people makes them confused and ineffective. As he had demonstrated in the movie already and would do again.

If the characterisation of City Hunter was "He's never been to Earth before" then I would say he was as dumb as Feral, yes.
But he can't see what's inside before he drops in lol that's not tactical or smart at all no matter how much experience you have with humans lol

SiL

SiL

#2428
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:40:15 AMBut that seems to be your biggest gripe with this particular movie... that feral was dumb.
No, my problem is that he comes across as Jason Voorhees with a cloaking device because of the totality of his characterisation, not any single thing.

QuoteBut, his actions aren't any dumber than literally any other predator at some point in their respective films; do you have the same gripes about those films?
Ever heard me talk about AvPR?

QuoteSo if you're ok with something like city hunter going into a room full of armed people blind, why is that ok but feral fighting a bear is not?
City Hunter jumping into rooms and hacking people to pieces is actually something I never particularly liked about the sequel. I prefer the original movie and the whole, y'know, hunting thing. The mass slaughter approach never really appealed.


Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:40:15 AMBut he can't see what's inside before he drops in lol that's not tactical or smart at all no matter how much experience you have with humans lol
He's actively hunting Harrigan's crew. If he knows they're in the subway he probably saw them -- and the other passengers -- get on board.

Engineer

Engineer

#2429
Quote from: SiL on Oct 28, 2022, 05:43:28 AM
Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:40:15 AMBut that seems to be your biggest gripe with this particular movie... that feral was dumb.
No, my problem is that he comes across as Jason Voorhees with a cloaking device because of the totality of his characterisation, not any single thing.

QuoteBut, his actions aren't any dumber than literally any other predator at some point in their respective films; do you have the same gripes about those films?
Ever heard me talk about AvPR?

QuoteSo if you're ok with something like city hunter going into a room full of armed people blind, why is that ok but feral fighting a bear is not?
City Hunter jumping into rooms and hacking people to pieces is actually something I never particularly liked about the sequel. I prefer the original movie and the whole, y'know, hunting thing. The mass slaughter approach never really appealed.


Quote from: Engineer on Oct 28, 2022, 05:40:15 AMBut he can't see what's inside before he drops in lol that's not tactical or smart at all no matter how much experience you have with humans lol
He's actively hunting Harrigan's crew. If he knows they're in the subway he probably saw them -- and the other passengers -- get on board.

Knowing jerry and Leona are on the train? Yes. But he's still going in blind and has no idea what else is there lol

Nope. Never seen you talk about avpr but meh that's a shit movie all around and one I typically ignore anyway.

I prefer the original predator too. But JH still did some dumb things too. And mass slaughter, you just don't see it on screen (Jim hopper's entire team was strung up right there together after a nearby firefight shooting in all directions; sounds like JH just went in and mass slaughtered a bunch of people to me).

The predators, all of them, were basically Jason voorhees with a cloaking device. JH was personally my favorite... but feral did more, y' know, hunting, than CH and several of the others... the amount of hunting he did seemed pretty on par with JH to me in fact... definitely wasn't any dumber than the others either.

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