Marvel's First Alien Series Announced!

Started by Kailem, Dec 07, 2020, 07:22:32 PM

Author
Marvel's First Alien Series Announced! (Read 273,196 times)

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
Part of why the big deletion gets so messy is because it was a "fix" applied to when all 3 franchises were still considered one franchise. It was still sloppy even then imo, but now with all 3 being distinctly separate franchises, it causes a grey area... without resurrection, the big deletion isn't necessary, so even though the big deletion is only mentioned in an AVP comic, the concept is there because of an alien movie. So resurrection would kind of have to be both AVP and alien, existing in two separate franchises, and to us... ok that makes sense, it's not that hard to follow. But less familiar, causal fans or new fans are going to be confused out of their minds about what belongs in which franchises, and why.


PS. And that's only scratching the surface of it...

Who knows what Disney will do in the future, but when communicating to Predator fans, especially new Predator fans, I take comfort in the fact of just telling them... once they understand that there are three distinct licenses and guidelines therein to licensees... that all of Predator and AvP is one big continuity.

Which makes sense overall to them thankfully, with the Xeno skull in Predator 2 to the Hawkins Grave in AvPR. :)



SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#1201
Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:49:14 PM

Part of why the big deletion gets so messy is because it was a "fix" applied to when all 3 franchises were still considered one franchise.

[...]but now with all 3 being distinctly separate franchises, it causes a grey area...


Oh, that super interesting, when where all three considered one license and by whom specifically? Was that the case in official circles? I've always understood it to be that the AvP franchise is the shared universe, ala Fire and Stone, and that Aliens and Pred are their separate constituent elements.

Quote

without resurrection, the big deletion isn't necessary, so even though the big deletion is only mentioned in an AVP comic, the concept is there because of an alien movie.

Was that officially revealed to be the case somewhere? Do you know where? I'd love to check that out.

Quote

So resurrection would kind of have to be both AVP and alien, existing in two separate franchises, and to us... ok that makes sense, it's not that hard to follow. But less familiar, causal fans or new fans are going to be confused out of their minds about what belongs in which franchises, and why.

PS. And that's only scratching the surface of it...

Would less familiar, casual, or new fans even be aware of the BD? What's below the surface? You've got my curiosity all piqued now.

Engineer

Engineer

#1202
Quote from: SpaceKase on Mar 30, 2021, 07:32:29 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:49:14 PM

Part of why the big deletion gets so messy is because it was a "fix" applied to when all 3 franchises were still considered one franchise.

[...]but now with all 3 being distinctly separate franchises, it causes a grey area...


Oh, that super interesting, when where all three considered one license and by whom specifically? Was that the case in official circles? I've always understood it to be that the AvP franchise is the shared universe, ala Fire and Stone, and that Aliens and Pred are their separate constituent elements.

Quote

without resurrection, the big deletion isn't necessary, so even though the big deletion is only mentioned in an AVP comic, the concept is there because of an alien movie.

Was that officially revealed to be the case somewhere? Do you know where? I'd love to check that out.

Quote

So resurrection would kind of have to be both AVP and alien, existing in two separate franchises, and to us... ok that makes sense, it's not that hard to follow. But less familiar, causal fans or new fans are going to be confused out of their minds about what belongs in which franchises, and why.

PS. And that's only scratching the surface of it...

Would less familiar, casual, or new fans even be aware of the BD? What's below the surface? You've got my curiosity all piqued now.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on the Fox payroll ever came out and outright said they were one franchise, but the way the EU seemed to bend to the movies strongly suggested as much. Maybe I read into that wrong I guess...

Fairly recently though, there has been some indication that Fox had decided to officially separate them. I think part of the reason for this was because Ridley Scott was pretty openly against the idea of AVP, and knowingly retconned the AVP movies with his prequels.

My interaction with most newer fans has been one of confusion. The best example i have is relating to the movies. The big deletion is a bit more obscure but all it takes is for a newer fan to scroll through a wiki site to find a reference to it. Most of the confusion I see come up relates to the fact that the AVP movies were retconned and stand alone as their own continuity now, separate from Scott's prequels, and confusion about fire and stone.

Since fire and stone came up though, where that gets confusing for a lot of people is with the "partial canon" status. The River of pain book ties in to the alien portion of fire and stone directly; and as such the alien part of fire & stone is considered canon to the alien universe... but the rest of the fire and stone series is not part of the alien series anymore, it's AVP... but on the AVP side of the fence, well, they have to also include the aliens part, the River of pain book and the "aliens" movie. It's just odd how some stories exist in more than one universe, then others don't.

The fire and stone series also started a new reboot of the EU so it ignores any of the older stories that existed up to that point. If you dig enough, I'm sure you'll find other continuity issues and contradictions throughout the EU. It's really an issue of multiple reboots taking place, pretty much every time a new movie came out starting with alien3. The EU really is at its best when it does its own thing and doesn't try so hard to conform to the movies. Like, for example, dead orbit; great story, just outside the main film universe enough to where it kind of stands alone and doesn't tie itself to closely to anything else.

Voodoo Magic



With the understanding everything has its separate license and separate revenue streams and its rules within for licensees...

"AVP" was once in continuity (and subsequently AVP-R), and designed as a prequel to "Alien".  Per Paul Anderson:


  • "The movie is designed to be a sequel to the Predator movies and a prequel to the Alien movies. In no way does it contradict or go against anything in the Alien franchise. We've been very careful about that. It's set present day and on earth, so it's like 150 years before Sigourney Weaver's out in space. It really makes sense. When you see this movie and then those movies, well I understand why she was completely ignorant of the existence of Aliens, but the Weyland-Yutani people did have an awareness of them. In that respect, there is a mythology to it (and there is a lot of mythology in the movie), but it is more related to Earth history rather than the history of Aliens and Predators. I'm not trying to explain away their genesis or anything like that. The idea is very much inspired by something Ron Cobb did for the very first Alien movie. I don't know if any of you have the original Alien book (which was done ages ago), but it had some original artwork from Alien for the pyramid that was never built ... Ron Cobb did some really cool designs, which were hieroglyphics showing the eggs array; and that was very much an inspiration for this movie. It was a strand of Alien mythology that existed already but that never made it in Ridley Scott's movie."

But once AVP's least favorite fan Ridley Scott got back into the game, Ridley retconned AVP out.  As per "Prometheus" writer Damion Lindeloff:


  • "When I said to [Ridley Scott], 'You know, Weyland was a character in one of the Alien Vs. Predator movies,' he just sort of looked at me like I had just slapped him in the face. That was the beginning, middle and end of all Alien Vs. Predator references in our story process."

Whiskeybrewer

Quote from: Dachande on Mar 30, 2021, 12:08:32 PM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Mar 30, 2021, 11:00:28 AM
Maybe a workaround is that many USM squads and other groups were killed/slaughtered trying to get living samples of the Xenomorph's.

With that much failure, they had to go for the wildest swing they could and use this old as all hell sample.

Even though that worked, they were still taken out by what they'd got

Hence Perez's line of "For all intensive purposes, she succeeded"

for all intents and purposes

Thats the most random autocorrect I've ever had lmao

SM

SM

#1205
For a time licensing considered the AvP films and the first comic series with Machiko part of the Alien continuity, though the discrepancies were never directly addressed.  Had a great big web project at Fox gone ahead it would've had a timeline with entries addressing the Weyland of AvP and Weyland of Prometheus.

Management change at licensing and anything AvP (including the Aliens portion of Fire & Stone) was excised.

Local Trouble

Quote from: SM on Mar 31, 2021, 02:13:13 AM
Had a great big web project at Fox gone ahead it would've had a timeline with entries addressing the Weyland of AvP and Weyland of Prometheus.

Any idea how they intended to reconcile the two?

SM

SM

#1207
Yes I have an idea.

The phone conversation went:

Me: 'Look they don't really fit, but I'm sure there's a way they could be made to fit.'
Them: 'Okay.  Could you do that for us?'
Me: '...'




Me: 'Uh, yeah okay.'

Local Trouble

Did you ever come up with anything?

SM

SM

#1209
Yes.

Local Trouble

Was it seamless?

SM

SM

#1211
Not even remotely.

Xenomrph

Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Mar 30, 2021, 11:00:28 AM
Maybe a workaround is that many USM squads and other groups were killed/slaughtered trying to get living samples of the Xenomorph's.

With that much failure, they had to go for the wildest swing they could and use this old as all hell sample.

Even though that worked, they were still taken out by what they'd got

Hence Perez's line of "For all intensive purposes, she succeeded"
This has been my workaround. There *are* other Alien samples out there, but they're outside the reach of anything Perez can get his hands on without attracting attention.

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 30, 2021, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: Engineer on Mar 30, 2021, 05:49:14 PM
Part of why the big deletion gets so messy is because it was a "fix" applied to when all 3 franchises were still considered one franchise. It was still sloppy even then imo, but now with all 3 being distinctly separate franchises, it causes a grey area... without resurrection, the big deletion isn't necessary, so even though the big deletion is only mentioned in an AVP comic, the concept is there because of an alien movie. So resurrection would kind of have to be both AVP and alien, existing in two separate franchises, and to us... ok that makes sense, it's not that hard to follow. But less familiar, causal fans or new fans are going to be confused out of their minds about what belongs in which franchises, and why.


PS. And that's only scratching the surface of it...

Who knows what Disney will do in the future, but when communicating to Predator fans, especially new Predator fans, I take comfort in the fact of just telling them... once they understand that there are three distinct licenses and guidelines therein to licensees... that all of Predator and AvP is one big continuity.

Which makes sense overall to them thankfully, with the Xeno skull in Predator 2 to the Hawkins Grave in AvPR. :)



Here we go again. :P

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 31, 2021, 03:49:19 AM
Here we go again. :P

Live it. Breathe it. Love it. 💘   ;)

Local Trouble

Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 31, 2021, 03:49:19 AM
Quote from: Whiskeybrewer on Mar 30, 2021, 11:00:28 AM
Maybe a workaround is that many USM squads and other groups were killed/slaughtered trying to get living samples of the Xenomorph's.

With that much failure, they had to go for the wildest swing they could and use this old as all hell sample.

Even though that worked, they were still taken out by what they'd got

Hence Perez's line of "For all intensive purposes, she succeeded"

This has been my workaround. There *are* other Alien samples out there, but they're outside the reach of anything Perez can get his hands on without attracting attention.

Because of the quarantine?

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