Colonial Marines, not as great as everyone thinks they are

Started by brokentusk420, Apr 14, 2020, 06:30:35 AM

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Colonial Marines, not as great as everyone thinks they are (Read 7,493 times)

Kradan


LastSonofKrypton

LastSonofKrypton

#16
Gorman was an inexperienced leader who was way over his head, the marines were too cocky to begin with, and the fact that they were going up against an enemy that they had never encountered before left them at a severe disadvantage. 

That being said, once the initial shock of the attack has set in, and we lose half of the squad the other marines step into their roles.  With Apone gone, Hicks immediately steps in and takes charge, organising a retreat as best he can.  Drake and Vasquez do what they do best, shredding everything in sight whilst providing what seems to be effective covering fire, allowing Hicks and Hudson to escape, until Drake goes down defending his squad.  Given the speed and ferocity of the xeno ambush, and the fact that over half of their unit, including their leader are taken out quickly, the survivors adapt very quickly.  Hudson is obviously the one who panics and kind of crumbles during this, it makes sense because he is the cockiest of them all, but even he goes down fighting whilst the others escape. 

Then there is Gorman, who I feel is often overlooked.  He's obviously not cut out for the job, and that becomes apparent as the nest ambush goes down and he is reduced to a gibbering wreck.  After he wakes recovers from being knocked out he changes, he steps back and allows Hicks and Ripley, who are both far better at leading people, and he immediately falls into line.  If you think back to Hicks, 'Looks like the new Lieutenant's too good to eat with the rest of us grunts,' and then consider Gorman's final act, he goes back to help Vasquez, at the cost of his own life, it goes to show the changes he went through as a character.  From the arrogant 'rupert' who didn't want to connect with his team outside of barking orders, to a soldier who was willing to die for his comrades.

Overall, I think the marines did the best that they could, given the overwhelming situation they found themselves in.  If they had previous experience with the xenomorph then they could be considered to be incompetent, but they didn't, so they shouldn't. 

Drukathi

One question to Colonial Marines - why did they all leave Sulaco? No one was left on board. So, you know, just in case.

Local Trouble

I'd imagine they had transmitters on both Bug Stomper and the APC, and at least two people on the mission who were qualified to remote-pilot Smart Ass (Ferro and Bishop).  The sheer amount of bad luck they had in losing so many crucial mission assets is staggering.

Voodoo Magic

They all left the Sulaco because no one can be on-board when a special device is running...

Spoiler
[close]

LastSonofKrypton

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Apr 15, 2020, 06:55:07 PM
They all left the Sulaco because no one can be on-board when a special device is running...

Spoiler
[close]

Spoiler
[close]

Local Trouble

Why did James Cameron have the Titanic leave port without enough lifeboats for all of the passengers and crew?

Voodoo Magic

Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 15, 2020, 08:46:48 PM
Why did James Cameron have the Titanic leave port without enough lifeboats for all of the passengers and crew?



Huggs

Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 15, 2020, 08:46:48 PM
Why did James Cameron have the Titanic leave port without enough lifeboats for all of the passengers and crew?

It's the Canadian way.

SM

Quote from: Drukathi on Apr 15, 2020, 04:51:07 PM
One question to Colonial Marines - why did they all leave Sulaco? No one was left on board. So, you know, just in case.

Just in case what?  They've been trained to deal with these kinds of situations.

Local Trouble

It's just another example of their over-reliance on technology.

Immortan Jonesy

Quote from: Valaquen on Apr 14, 2020, 06:59:29 PM
The Marines' failure was the point, it was a theme of the movie and an intention of Cameron. It was based on the US losing in Vietnam. SM said it better: their hubris was the point.

Yup.


OpenMaw

I will say I agree with the OP in one regard.

The marines are not as great as some fanboys would think. The kind of thinking that gave us the completely unironic bullshit found in Colonial Marines. WE SMASHIN BUGZ CUZ WE ARE MUH-REENS OORAH TO ASHES SON. I WEEP RED WHITE AND BLUE FOR THE CORPS UHHHHHH ABSOLUTELY BADASS.

The younger group who think that stuff is "kewl."

As has been said, the whole point is that they're in control. They're awesome. They've got state of the art firepower. They've got the experience. And absolutely none of that matters, because they make fatal mistakes.

Newt sums it up with one line. "It won't make any difference."

SM

The film didn't give us that 'oorah' stuff.

OpenMaw

Quote from: SM on Apr 23, 2020, 11:15:23 AM
The film didn't give us that 'oorah' stuff.

Of course it did!

"We endanger species" on the side of their bird.
"I only need to know one thing; where they are."
"Are ya lean!? Are ya mean!? What are you!?"
"Absolutely badasses!"
"Check it out, I am the ultimate badass. State of the badass art."
"I like to keep this handy, for close encounters."

There's macho banter all over the place until they get to the hive.

The context is important, even if as an audience member you get taken in by it, it's not self-affirming. Unlike the comics, and games that followed which took those bits and unironically tried to present them as a positive trait of the marines instead of being what lead to their annihilation in the first place. Arrogant posturing + Inexperience = doom.

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