Colonial Marines, not as great as everyone thinks they are

[brokentusk420]

Unpopular fact, the colonial marines acted even more stupid than the scientists in both Prometheus and Covenant. Not only did they have someone who had experience with what they were going up against,  they had all their big guns and still ended up dead.

People like to talk all sorts of crap about the scientists in Prometheus and Covenant and the decisions they made, citing them as reasons why these movies fail. At the same time they hold the actions of the marines in ALIENS in such high regards. Let me remind everyone that they were the reason the primary heat exchangers where damaged when they began firing their weapons aftering be told not to because it would damage the cooling system.

Their actions were even dumber than the scientist who had no idea what was in-store for them. The real reason people give them so much flack and the marines so much slack, is because they were wanting ALIENS 2.0 instead of the movies we got. All three of these movies had people acting exactly the same with the exception of the marines having had someone with knowledge of the threat and ignoring it making them the dumbest out of the three groups.   

[SM]

Hubris was the point of Aliens.  Nobody missed it.

(And the dropship crash caused the meltdown; not weapons fire.)

[brokentusk420]

Hubris was the point of Aliens.  Nobody missed it.

(And the dropship crash caused the meltdown; not weapons fire.)

The dropship crashed nowhere near the reactor. It's was the weapons firing. The dropship crashed in the open.

[SM]

It crashed into the side of the AP Station, and Bishop later said "The crash caused too much damage.  An overload is inevitable at this point."

I do think the characters in Prometheus and Covenant cop way too much flack, but marines get a pass because they are openly arrogant and pay the price for that arrogance.  It's part of the story, rather than just for convenience (which is the charged often levelled at the prequel crews).

And really what do the Prometheus crew do wrong apart from Millburn running away from a dead biological specimen and being friendly with a living hostile one?  Fifield having the map and getting lost was a contrivance, and taking the helmets off was explained within the context of the film - and never resulted in anyone getting hurt.  Millburn and Fifield were harmed while in full suits.

Covenant is a little easier to criticise, but it's still addressed in the film.  Whether that was adequate enough is open to interpretation.

[Kradan]

Hubris was the point of Aliens.  Nobody missed it.

(And the dropship crash caused the meltdown; not weapons fire.)

I thought both .

Unpopular fact, the colonial marines acted even more stupid than the scientists in both Prometheus and Covenant. Not only did they have someone who had experience with what they were going up against,  they had all their big guns and still ended up dead.

People like to talk all sorts of crap about the scientists in Prometheus and Covenant and the decisions they made, citing them as reasons why these movies fail. At the same time they hold the actions of the marines in ALIENS in such high regards. Let me remind everyone that they were the reason the primary heat exchangers where damaged when they began firing their weapons aftering be told not to because it would damage the cooling system.

Their actions were even dumber than the scientist who had no idea what was in-store for them. The real reason people give them so much flack and the marines so much slack, is because they were wanting ALIENS 2.0 instead of the movies we got. All three of these movies had people acting exactly the same with the exception of the marines having had someone with knowledge of the threat and ignoring it making them the dumbest out of the three groups.

I don't think Gorman actually warned them why they had not to use pulse rifles and smart guns. He just gave them an order. There was tension between him and marines established beforehand so I can buy that they wouldn't treat his orders as "100 % must obey". And they were in extreme situation where hardly anyone can think rationally.

[Huggs]

SM is correct.

The drop ship crash was solely responsible for the meltdown. Its stated plainly in the movie.

And overconfidence got them killed. Plus the stupidity of following Gormans orders to disarm in the AP. And quite frankly, Apone should've ordered them to regroup and fall back to the APC immediately. It was clear within seconds that the colonists were dead or dying, and the situation was FUBAR.

[Mr. Clemens]

I'm not a big pro-USMC guy or anything, but yeah, Gorman never told Apone why his squad couldn't fire. It was just "flame units only."

It would be easy for Apone to suppose that Gorman just didn't wanna ruffle Burke's feathers by having his men shoot up the place.

[Local Trouble]

It occurs to me that, depending on what Ripley stated in her report, Gorman may have genuinely believed that flamethrowers would be effective against the aliens.  Hell, I'd imagine that they were sufficient against most of the other creatures that the USCM had encountered in the past.

[Kradan]

So, what the hell they would need pulse rifles for ?

[Huggs]

Xenomorph activity was only suspected, not 100% confirmed. They could just as well be dealing with an armed human threat.

Inserting unarmed troops into a hostile environment kind of defeats the point of sending soldiers in the first place.

[Valaquen]

The Marines' failure was the point, it was a theme of the movie and an intention of Cameron. It was based on the US losing in Vietnam. SM said it better: their hubris was the point.

[Voodoo Magic]

You have to match the intelligence of the film you're in. It's all about context. It's all about presentation. You put a filet mignon, white asparagus and escargot on a paper plate it doesn't feel right. But you take that same paper plate and throw a hamburger and fries on it and it looks so  Mmm, Mmm, Good!

The point is, the audience isn't going to look at scientists...


...then look at these guys....









...and expect them to be smarter than a group of scientists.

It's all about presentation and fitting in the film you're in.

[Kradan]

It's all about presentation and fitting in the film you're in.

Well, I always like how you present your opinion. 

[Voodoo Magic]

It's all about presentation and fitting in the film you're in.

Well, I always like how you present your opinion. 

[Huggs]

You can only use the word "present" and its various forms so many times before Necro shows up.