Alien vs Predator: Which is the better Predator

[whiterabbit]

Think about it, what happens when you wipe out all your prey? What will you eat, or use to reproduce?

That's a really great point. Good Predators manage their resources, even in the animal kingdom.

[SiL]

No they don't. The relationship between the predator, the prey, other animals, and the environment manages the resource. Look what happens when you introduce a predatory species to an environment that's not adapted to handle it. They destroy everything. We've never seen Aliens in a native habitat, only in locations they've been introduced to.

[Local Trouble]

We've never seen Aliens in a native habitat, only in locations they've been introduced to.

Indeed.  And because HuDaFuk and I love it when I quote myself...

I'm torn.  I like to imagine the ecosystem of the aliens' homeworld as being one in which they live in symbiosis with another native species.  Perhaps some docile herbivore that has an orifice in its torso from which the aliens can emerge without killing it.

And it's only when they're removed from their native habitat that the aliens become dangerous and have no choice but to breed within hosts that are killed in the process.

Imagine some Gigeresque creature with a big, vaginal-looking orifice in its chest.  They could give birth to the aliens and then continue on their merry way until they get facehugged again and the ecosystem survives.

[marrerom]

And Aliens have never wiped out humans or Yautja,

There are several instances of them doing exactly that: Hadely's Hope colony, Gunnison  Colorado, Fury 161, and the ancient Mayan city  (shown in the AVP flashback) all had their human populations either almost, or completely, wiped out. The same would be true for predators and engineers if the Aliens ever got a foothold on one of their major population centers.

The main thing that I think prevents predators from being as dangerous as Aliens is their culture/honor system/pride. They pull punches when they shouldn't and it often gets them killed.

No they don't. The relationship between the predator, the prey, other animals, and the environment manages the resource. Look what happens when you introduce a predatory species to an environment that's not adapted to handle it. They destroy everything. We've never seen Aliens in a native habitat, only in locations they've been introduced to.

This^

[The Alien Predator]

And Aliens have never wiped out humans or Yautja,

There are several instances of them doing exactly that: Hadely's Hope colony, Gunnison  Colorado, Fury 161, and the ancient Mayan city  (shown in the AVP flashback) all had their human populations either almost, or completely, wiped out. The same would be true for predators and engineers if the Aliens ever got a foothold on one of their major population centers.

The main thing that I think prevents predators from being as dangerous as Aliens is their culture/honor system/pride. They pull punches when they shouldn't and it often gets them killed.

And that was resolved instantly through a single self destruct sequence. "Entire civilizations wiped out overnight."

Also the Concrete Jungle intro where a single Predator destroys an entire city via his self destruct. Predators can be just as deadly to our civilization because of their culture. Remember Keyes' warning? Remember how quick City Hunter began tapping the buttons when on the losing side literally in Los Angeles next to an apartment and other highly populated areas?

Plus that ending of AvP3 I posted earlier of a country sized explosion. Predators could easily wipe out Aliens, we've seldom ever heard of them suffering such disasters as us. Some isolated cases, but nothing as bad as us when we had Earth overrun by them. That is until Rage War when the Alien armies are lead by a human force behind them.

And yes, Aliens almost wiped us out when we're primitive or unprepared. They overran Earth in the old comics, but we still took it back.

They're not that dangerous as we're lead to believe, just an extremely successful parasite in an ecosystem unfamiliar with theirs.

No they don't. The relationship between the predator, the prey, other animals, and the environment manages the resource. Look what happens when you introduce a predatory species to an environment that's not adapted to handle it. They destroy everything. We've never seen Aliens in a native habitat, only in locations they've been introduced to.

Yes, I believe the term for that is "invasive species", placing an animal in an environment unfamiliar with it.

Look at the destruction the myriad of species we've introduced to Australia and New Zealand have caused.

That's what Aliens are, an invasive species. The Predators are "better" because they belong in the hunts they're in, they blend in the ecosystems rather than destroy them.

And they're deadlier too due to their weaponry. Aliens are deadliest when no one's prepared for them.

[serbip1]

In my opinion the Predators are superior to Aliens, and they pose a great danger to the humanity.But let's not forget that Aliens may pose a bigger threat on Earth if we're talking about an invasion or something like that.

[Bughunter S. Thomson]

Aliens just care about expanding their kind. Humans fight for survival. But the Preds' whole known culture centrals around hunting. One Pred can take down multiple humans and aliens very quickly and efficiently.

[marrerom]

And that was resolved instantly through a single self destruct sequence. "Entire civilizations wiped out overnight."

Also the Concrete Jungle intro where a single Predator destroys an entire city via his self destruct. Predators can be just as deadly to our civilization because of their culture. Remember Keyes' warning? Remember how quick City Hunter began tapping the buttons when on the losing side literally in Los Angeles next to an apartment and other highly populated areas?

Sure, but a Predator's self destruct has nothing to do with it being a better predator. It has to do with asset denial and their code of honor. The fact that you have to resort to nukes in order to halt the aliens speaks to the danger they pose. I mean, you never see the government resorting to nukes in order to stop a predator, right? They just don't warrant that kind of a response. And again I'd just like to reiterate that i'm not saying Predators aren't dangerous. They are. They just aren't going to kill everything on the planet if given the chance.

Plus that ending of AvP3 I posted earlier of a country sized explosion. Predators could easily wipe out Aliens, we've seldom ever heard of them suffering such disasters as us. Some isolated cases, but nothing as bad as us when we had Earth overrun by them. That is until Rage War when the Alien armies are lead by a human force behind them.

And yes, Aliens almost wiped us out when we're primitive or unprepared. They overran Earth in the old comics, but we still took it back.

I really cant speak to any of what's happened in the EU. I mostly haven't read any of it. I'm referring strictly to the established canon (Films).

They're not that dangerous as we're lead to believe, just an extremely successful parasite in an ecosystem unfamiliar with theirs.
And they're deadlier too due to their weaponry. Aliens are deadliest when no one's prepared for them.

Yes, but this is this is true of anything, its even applicable to predators. Rocye was able to confront the super predator with much better results once he understood its weakness's and had learned more about its technology. 

The Predators are "better" because they belong in the hunts they're in, they blend in the ecosystems rather than destroy them.

I think this sums up why we disagree. You are arguing that being the superior predator means fitting in with the ecosystem and having a balance between predator and prey, yes? Hunting responsibly, etc. Whereas I am arguing that a superior predator would wreck any ecosystem its in because its such a perfect killing machine.

[SiL]

The Predators are "better" because they belong in the hunts they're in, they blend in the ecosystems rather than destroy them.

They don't belong there. They're just as invasive. They're just conscious about it and minimize their impact.

The idea that one could be a "better" predator than the other is really weird. No predator is any better than any other so long as they both thrive in their respective environments. Destroying your food supply doesn't make you a bad predator. Shit, if anything it shows you're too effective a predator for your environment. By that definition, Predators are shit.

[whiterabbit]

The Predators are "better" because they belong in the hunts they're in, they blend in the ecosystems rather than destroy them.

They don't belong there. They're just as invasive. They're just conscious about it and minimize their impact.

The idea that one could be a "better" predator than the other is really weird. No predator is any better than any other so long as they both thrive in their respective environments. Destroying your food supply doesn't make you a bad predator. Shit, if anything it shows you're too effective a predator for your environment. By that definition, Predators are shit.

So you're going with natural selection. If a predator is too good for the environment it eats itself into extinction?

Not a single person picked the Marine. What? Are humans chopped liver now.

[The Alien Predator]

I think this sums up why we disagree. You are arguing that being the superior predator means fitting in with the ecosystem and having a balance between predator and prey, yes? Hunting responsibly, etc. Whereas I am arguing that a superior predator would wreck any ecosystem its in because its such a perfect killing machine.

You have been raising many good points. I think we were just thinking differently on what "Predator" means.

Technically, neither of them are showing predatory behaviour in the films as they weren't really shown eating their prey (maybe that Alien in AvP-r might've been eating that guy after killing him in the pool, when it was repeatedly slamming him with its inner mouth.)

We know Predators eat meat because City Hunter ate beef, so they do probably hunt things for food. But they weren't preying on us as a natural predator does. In fact, their behaviour (while mirroring our sports hunting) can also be compared to when predatory species kill other predatory species for competition or just for the sake of it. Lions kill hyenas and just leave them to rot. I'm sure there's more examples.

Predators hunt other dangerous species without being shown eating them, and chances are that many of those are predatory, like us. 

I think the question of this thread may be a bit vague as neither species has shown true predatory behaviour in films. We know in the AvP 2 game, as a chestburster, you gotta find some cat to feast on to grow into an Alien. That's an example of true predation.

I guess best way to sum it up is that we don't really know for sure. We only have bits and pieces from isolated cases shown in the various media of this franchise. Meanwhile we're debating on who is more deadly to civilization or who can destroy an ecosystem better etc.

I think perhaps they're both very good at what they do, both are very effective "predators" in their own right. Both have carved a niche and thrive in the galaxy, proving to be highly succesful species. As far as evolution is concerned, that's what makes a "good predator," the one that survives, regardless of strengths and weaknesses.

The thread might as well ask "who is the better predator, a lion or a hyena?" Because that's what it's like, and it concerns two natural enemies. 

[whiterabbit]

The thread might as well ask "who is the better predator, a lion or a hyena?" Because that's what it's like, and it concerns two natural enemies. 

Well yea that is what the thread is asking. Great analogy.