Would it have been better if Newt lived past Alien 3?

[Tangakkai]

Am I the only person here who's mournful of Newt's death?

No, I'm with you on this matter.

I just so loved Aliens and the ending was so perfect. I thought the bond between Ripley & Newt was portrayed so beautifully... and then I watched Alien 3 and omg, she's just dead, I mean just dead... what the Hell? The spine of the Aliens movie just broken in a matter of seconds... I felt so betrayed!

and since then... well I only own Alien & Aliens from the Alien franchise... that pretty much says it all about me...

[SM]

I was sad she died.  But I think it made Alien3 a better film.  She took one for the team.

[Private Hudson]

The whole point of Alien 3 was to be depressing though....

[predxeno]

I was sad she died.  But I think it made Alien3 a better film.  She took one for the team.

She didn't take one for the team, she was collateral damage for the alien facehugger(s).

[SM]

[StrangeShape]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/4/14/129157480399137911.gif

lol

[Valaquen]

The whole point of Alien 3 was to be depressing though....

For the kind of people who like to laugh at kids running into glass doors and can get their rocks off to school shootings, I guess that's a good thing. (Okay, I can laugh at the former but not the latter).

[Mus]

Yeah, like Romeo & Juliet. Tragedy is for sadists.

[Valaquen]

Yeah, like Romeo & Juliet. Tragedy is for sadists.

Thing about Romeo & Juliet is, the tragedy is the climax. When it's the intro.. well, imagine R&J beginning with their deaths, and the rest of the play winding down to the deaths of all the Montague's and Capulet's. Again, as I've said, Alien3's problem isn't the cheap way it handles Aliens, it's plagued by script problems and Ripley being redundant.

[predxeno]

How is Ripley being redundant?

[Valaquen]

How is Ripley being redundant?

I wrote a massive post about it before explaining my dissatisfaction with her. Let me look it up and I'll repost it.

EDIT: Here:

Alien3's fundamental flaw for me isn't killing Newt & Hicks (and be honest, that's not the only reason a lot of people didn't like the movie) but the problem, for me anyway, was bringing Ripley back into the fold for another... I don't wanna say 'adventure', but, y'know. In ALIEN, Ripley was someone in the background who came to the fore in a time of stress and danger. She was the unlikely hero. In ALIENS she was the avenging 'mother', Rambolina, full-on heroine. In ALIEN3 she was dressed down and put through the wringer - but it felt too familiar and worse, because of that familiarity with the character there was a feeling of despair (good), sadness (good) and, for me... boredom. I was bored of Ripley. I'd already seen her character through several arcs, what more could they do to make her grow? Nothing - They stripped her down, the whole movie essentially a backwards walk into the furnace. Ripley fought to eradicate the Xeno - She'd already done this for survival in ALIEN and as a mental purge in ALIENS. She sacrificed herself - for what? Everyone she knew was dead, she was utterly despondent. She wasn't dying for an ideal or for a person, she was dying because she was going to take out that Xeno no matter what - admirable, but something she'd done already in ALIEN/ALIENS, sacrificing herself seemed more like a clause in a contract than a legitimate character move, but of all the things in ALIEN3, I actually think that Ripley's death was a poignant one still.

To me, Ripley in ALIEN3 was the start of diminishing returns. I would have preferred a new protag - no Hicks, Newt, no one. Start fresh. Give the audience no familiar ground aside the creature (even then, it'd be redesigned). No familiar ground is better than having familiar ground torn up in front of you. Again, I'm being subjective.

and

Ripley's character takes a strange turn, she's almost bipolar. The moment she's told of the death of Hick's & Newt (or HIX N' NOOT) she jumps up naked, demands to see the EEV, and then throws a sultry line at Clemens, "Should I go like this? (naked. Paraphrased)." Once she sees the EEV cryotubes and the funeral she's in tears. Brilliant acting! Next scene she's flirting with Clemens again, and then sleeps with him (huh?). She didn't even know this guys sob story yet, she thought he was still a prisoner - in a facility for rapists and murderers no less. Hmm. Ripley, to me, took one step forward, one leap backwards (right into a furnace) in this movie.

[Mus]

I don't know how Ripley is redundant, when basically the whole movie is about Ripley's inner and outer struggle. If you ask me, they could've just called the movie Ripley.

Ripley fought to eradicate the Xeno - She'd already done this for survival in ALIEN and as a mental purge in ALIENS. She sacrificed herself - for what?

So that the Company wouldn't get their hands on it? Y'know, what she was toting about throughout the whole movie. She could've just said "f**k it" and let the Runner go rampant, fatigued as she was, but she teamed up with a bunch of sociopaths to eradicate it. Then she goes and jumps in the fire to get rid of the embryo, to prevent the Company from getting to it. I'd say that's an ideal. There was definitely a personal grudge towards the Alien on her part, but the way I see it, that just further validates Ripley's part in the movie, as the struggle becomes more than just some guy figthing a scary alien.

Ripley's character takes a strange turn, she's almost bipolar. The moment she's told of the death of Hick's & Newt (or HIX N' NOOT) she jumps up naked, demands to see the EEV, and then throws a sultry line at Clemens, "Should I go like this? (naked. Paraphrased)."

I wouldn't call it sultry, more like total indifference. She doesn't care about this strange man seeing her naked, she just wants to she the EEV. Why? Denial. When she hears the news about Hicks and Newt, she just blocks it out, and demands proof. She doesn't want to deal with their death, nor does she want to deal with yet another disappointment in general, so she just blocks out emotion. It's a defense mechanism against overhelming sorrow.

Once she sees the EEV cryotubes and the funeral she's in tears.

And this would be where she finally comes face to face with reality. The ship is a wreck. They really are gone. She' forced to accept it, it's all too much, she collapses.

Next scene she's flirting with Clemens again, and then sleeps with him (huh?). She didn't even know this guys sob story yet, she thought he was still a prisoner - in a facility for rapists and murderers no less. Hmm.

As you said, everyone she knew is dead. Yet another tragedy has struck, she is totally alone and vulnerable - in a facility for murderers and rapists no less - so she turns to the closest person to her, this seemingly nice man in a facility full of crooks, for comfort. I don't claim to be a master of psychology, but this is basically how I perceive her to experience her situation and I think it makes sense. So, as I said earlier, really this film truly is about Ripley. Her struggle with loss, her struggle with the Alien, and now her struggle with the Company. I find it to be a beautifully tragic closing chapter in the Ripley story, and at the same time nicely illustrates the destructiveness of the Alien. There's just no escaping it, it will tear your life apart.


Oh. By the way. How long is the timeline that Aliens spans over?

[Valaquen]

I don't know how Ripley is redundant, when basically the whole movie is about Ripley's inner and outer struggle. Ripley.

Everything Ripley goes through in Alien3, she's gone through in Aliens. Loss, nightmares, fear, pain, despondency:







Aliens also offered hope and then closure




Alien3 redid this, and offered closure of its own, which was unnecessary, all the emotional bases had been covered. Ripley's reappearance would be a rewarmed arc. It's no secret that every time a writer keeps Ripley out of their script post-Aliens, the execs put her back in as a money draw. We need a new character with fresh attitudes.

So that the Company wouldn't get their hands on it? Y'know, what she was toting about throughout the whole movie. She could've just said "f**k it" and let the Runner go rampant, fatigued as she was, but she teamed up with a bunch of sociopaths to eradicate it.

Really, she was well aware that she would be dead if she didn't get rid of the Xeno, as par her Nostromo experience. Once she finds out she's impregnated, her first aim is suicide. Thankfully, Dillon bullies her out of it.

Then she goes and jumps in the fire to get rid of the embryo, to prevent the Company from getting to it. I'd say that's an ideal. There was definitely a personal grudge towards the Alien on her part, but the way I see it, that just further validates Ripley's part in the movie, as the struggle becomes more than just some guy figthing a scary alien.

She was dead anyway. She knew well that the Company wouldn't keep her alive. With no one left alive, and no one to live for, Ripley's sacrifice amounts to nothing more than a tick on a plot check. Alien killed - tick. I can't praise a sacrifice based on plot resolution. Had there been more incentive for her to co-operate with WY, then I can see the sacrifice. But WY made it pretty clear what they wanted with the Alien.

And this would be where she finally comes face to face with reality. The ship is a wreck. They really are gone. She' forced to accept it, it's all too much, she collapses.

I know why she cries. It's horribly juxtaposed with her flirting and sleeping with Clemens.

As you said, everyone she knew is dead. Yet another tragedy has struck, she is totally alone and vulnerable

As in Aliens. All family and friends dead. Reputation and career in tatters. Branded delusional. Then we have resolution. What I'm saying is - it's all been done before. Give us new characters.

this seemingly nice man in a facility full of crooks, for comfort.

A prisoner in a facility for rapists, murderers, and child molesters. That fact never escaped her. Ripley is, allegedly, not stupid.

Her struggle with loss, her struggle with the Alien, and now her struggle with the Company. I find it to be a beautifully tragic closing chapter in the Ripley story, and at the same time nicely illustrates the destructiveness of the Alien. There's just no escaping it, it will tear your life apart.

To me, we'd seen it before.

Really, just didn't feel like we needed Ripley again.

[Noir-Gojira]

The franchise would have been better if Newt survived and replaced Ripley.

[Frood]

Agreed.  Newt taking up the torch from Ripley would have kept the franchise fresh, plus she would have had been a completely different heroine.  Kind of like how Sarah Connor is made to quickly change into a badass yet her son John is groomed to fight and survive from the get go.  Except in this case John doesn't believe in his destiny but Newt would have had no doubts as to hers.