I hate Alien Covenant

Started by GetThat81, Aug 11, 2023, 02:40:44 AM

Author
I hate Alien Covenant (Read 11,849 times)

Mr.Turok

Mr.Turok

#120
Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMI agree with the racism in the pseudoscientific hypotheses of ancient astronauts in real life, but I don't think that was Ridley's intention at all. The man just used the trope to tell his story, like Anderson did in AVP.

The concept doesn't bother me at all when it's used in fiction, like in Quatermass and the Pit for example.

The thing is that it's an outdated trope that needs to die due to it's racist origin. Why keep this idea in the public mind in the first place when it comes from a terrible viewpoint ya know? It's also the same reason why I dislike that same trope in AVP. Keeps us too connected to humanoid aliens, (Ex; Predators and Engineers) and that racist tone in the films, as how these civilizations needed Predator help to create pyramids and other things but european folks needed no such thing?

Like I know Anderson never intended that in the first place as well, and I do agree that Ridley at least isn't like that either, it just sucks that underlining mention is even there in the first place. It's also understandable that due to executive meddling, Anderson was forced to take the story on Earth as well, so I can see why he drew that trope for storytelling.

You got me intrigued at the two films you mentioned. Guess if it's done right, maybe it can work. Just that most of the time its not so perhaps these two can turn those expectations over.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Nov 23, 2023, 10:28:55 PMRegarding the Space Jockeys (or Pilots), there is no damage that cannot be repaired with future instalments; as happened recently with Aliens: Dark Descent or even the Alien RPG from Free League.

Personally, I like Engineers. They remind me of those creepy humanoids from Giger art, and I think they can subsist in the same universe with the Space Jockeys as separate entities.

I mean yeah eventually things have mended thanks to A:DD and the RPG but the fact that this was presented in the first place and had to take years later after release for things to be patched up. It wasn't even a neat idea but poorly executed, its rather an idea that should have been rejected on the table.

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#121
QuoteI think we've been monitored for years! How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? Rolling 20-tonne stones on logs? F*** off!

RIDLEY SCOTT

Much as I adore him as a creative and as quite the entertaining character,  I think he does believe that, in earnest.

Immortan Jonesy

Immortan Jonesy

#122
Quote from: Mr.Turok on Nov 24, 2023, 07:17:55 AMThe thing is that it's an outdated trope that needs to die due to it's racist origin. Why keep this idea in the public mind in the first place when it comes from a terrible viewpoint ya know? It's also the same reason why I dislike that same trope in AVP. Keeps us too connected to humanoid aliens, (Ex; Predators and Engineers) and that racist tone in the films, as how these civilizations needed Predator help to create pyramids and other things but european folks needed no such thing?

Fair enough but, before authors like Erich von Däniken or Zecharia Sitchin wrote their pseudoarchaeological theories, the concept was already used in science fiction; with roots in syncretic religious philosophies and esoteric beliefs during the late 19th century:

Quote from: Jason Colavito"The crap of the theosophists, which falls into the class of conscious fakery, is interesting in spots. It combines some genuine Hindoo and other Oriental myths with a subtle charlatanism obviously drawn from nineteenth century scientific concepts."

-- H. P . Lovecraft, letter to William Conover

This book presents early texts from noted Theosophists and those who encountered Theosophy, covering the beings from other worlds that came to the ancient earth to "civilize our planet." These texts provide an interesting window into the origins of the modern ancient astronaut theory and demonstrate just how much the talking heads of cable TV and the modern authors of alternative history owe to the pioneering work of the nineteenth- and early twentieth-century occultists.


Quote from: Mr.Turok on Nov 24, 2023, 07:17:55 AMYou got me intrigued at the two films you mentioned. Guess if it's done right, maybe it can work. Just that most of the time its not so perhaps these two can turn those expectations over.

It all depends on the execution and how the idea is used. I mean, I can imagine a premise of aliens visiting the prehistoric planet Earth before humans existed, without drawing any kind of influence on our ancestors.

Regardless, ancient astronauts have been exploited in countless works of fiction; in every format / medium imaginable:




Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 24, 2023, 02:04:28 PM
QuoteI think we've been monitored for years! How did the Egyptians build the pyramids? Rolling 20-tonne stones on logs? F*** off!

RIDLEY SCOTT

Much as I adore him as a creative and as quite the entertaining character,  I think he does believe that, in earnest.

Unfortunately yes, the man has some questionable beliefs.

Quote from: Ridley Scott via THR"NASA and the Vatican agree that is almost mathematically impossible that we can be where we are today without there being a little help along the way," Scott said.

▶️ Ridley Scott, Michael Fassbender, Noomi Rapace Tease 'Prometheus' at CineEurope

TC

TC

#123
Oh God no!

There I was thinking that Prometheus's Chariots of the Gods nonsense was an innocent act of writer desperation in order to contrive a plot that would somehow get a humanoid robot into a space jockey suit and thus able to be discovered by the Nostromo crew.

Now I learn that Scott actually believes this BS!

It falls into place: It's why the Engineers are depicted as Greco caucasian humans: they are part of Scott's eurocentric view of humanity's evolution. That's very close to blatant racism. If anything, the Engineers should look native African. That's where our species evolved from.

Bleh!

TC

BlueMarsalis79

BlueMarsalis79

#124
Blame the idea, the conception, on Jon Spaihts, but yes. Ridley Scott's to blame overall for their depiction, and he's been very particular about their similarities to white people such as Elvis.

He acknowledges Africa as the cradle of life, David holds Earth in his hands looking there in particular, but also it is the guy that made 1492: Conquest of Paradise.

Nightmare Asylum

Nightmare Asylum

#125
Given the way Ridley's recent films - Napoleon, The Last Duel, etc. - have essentially been hit pieces condemning their "heroes," I do think a Columbus story from current day Scott would be totally night and day compared to what was put on screen in 1492. It's something I'd definitely be interested in seeing.

E. Shaw

E. Shaw

#126
Quote from: TC on Nov 24, 2023, 03:56:13 PMOh God no!

There I was thinking that Prometheus's Chariots of the Gods nonsense was an innocent act of writer desperation in order to contrive a plot that would somehow get a humanoid robot into a space jockey suit and thus able to be discovered by the Nostromo crew.

Now I learn that Scott actually believes this BS!

It falls into place: It's why the Engineers are depicted as Greco caucasian humans: they are part of Scott's eurocentric view of humanity's evolution. That's very close to blatant racism. If anything, the Engineers should look native African. That's where our species evolved from.

Bleh!

TC

This guy has had a lot of influence:



even on Ridley it seems...

aliens13

aliens13

#127
Quote from: BlueMarsalis79 on Nov 24, 2023, 05:52:04 PMBlame the idea, the conception, on Jon Spaihts, but yes. Ridley Scott's to blame overall for their depiction, and he's been very particular about their similarities to white people such as Elvis.

He acknowledges Africa as the cradle of life, David holds Earth in his hands looking there in particular, but also it is the guy that made 1492: Conquest of Paradise.
Blame Lindelof, in the Jon Spaihts script the Engineers only helped the human species through history but they weren't our creators (when I was full Alien prequel). The idea of Engineers being our creators I think that appears in the Prometheus script. I believe that the Spaihts script was pretty good, just needed some more revisions but definitely better than the crappy sh*t that Lindelof made

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Patreon RSS Feed
Contact: General Queries | Submit News