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Canon is defined in the Oxford dictionary as "a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine" or "The works of a particular author or artist that are recognized as genuine". In contemporary culture, we are used to this idea of canon since it is an useful concept for exchange and work between fans, between creators or between fans and creators, particularly in very extended universes. This intellectual tool allows us to establishes a consistent diegesis and to discard various works and occurrences which do not fit with previously determined facts of the fictional universe, which is crucial in analyzing and developing said universe.

So...

After 40 years it is time to accept this simple truth:

THERE IS NO ALIEN OR ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR CANON.



What would you define as "canon universe"?

O'Bannon's canon? Scott's canon? Giger's canon?
Because all three had different visions of what the Alien creature was.
O'Bannon established the species was sentient and that the Alien was just juvenile, ignorant of their own culture.
Scott oscillated between different views, one of them being the Alien able to talk with Ripley's voice, one of them being the Alien as a weapon, one of them being the Alien having a very short life cycle (he would have hidden on the Narcissus to die).
Giger was more on the "animal species" side of thing and imagined a "laying creature", the Winged Stage (http://monstersvault.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/hr_giger_winged_alien_iv_concept_art_xenomorph_monsters_vault-790x778.jpg), years before Cameron created the Queen.
And that's only for the first movie.



What would you define as "canon chronology"?

So far there are at least a dozen different timelines (optimistic guess) depending what movies, novels, comic books or video games you're taking into account.
And that's not counting partially alternate universes such as the mess that is Alien Trilogy (1996 video game) for example, a story both adapting the first three movies and rebuilding them into another continuity (the most amazing thing is they set the Fiorina prison-foundry on LV-426 BUT you can find the damaged Alien 3 EEV in one of the levels).



What would you define as "the Word of God" here?

Because by this point it's nothing more than a selling argument.
Fox will say AVP and Colonial Marines and any barrel of crap is 100% canon every time and then disown it to better sell the next Alien product (remember they once established Alien Colonial Marines as canon).
Ridley Scott will contradict himself regarding LV-223 being LV-426 or not, or in other ways. Dan O'Bannon had a different vision and he's dead now (R.I.P.) so we cannot ask him anymore. The same for Giger (R.I.P.).
Every writer, every director, every significant artist and team which worked on this franchise has a different vision.



The "canon is whatever is on the cinema screen" rule does not manage to define a consistent canon.

Are Ripley and Dallas lovers (their love scene was cut)? Does Kane's Son practice eggmorphing (depending on the cut the scene is there or isn't there)? After the Nostromo accident, is Ripley's flight license suspended, is she subjected to psychiatric tests (this stuff is only in the Special Edition)? Do the Marines use the robot sentry guns? What's the real design of the EEV cryosleep tubes? Is the Fiorina Alien born from a oxen or a dog? From a royal facehugger or a normal one? Does Golic free it?

Does David create the xenomorph as shown in Covenant or was it present centuries ago, as established by the skull in the Predator 2 ship and the pyramid of Alien versus Predator? (Not to mention the Prometheus mural) I mean we have entire hives established on Earth in the 2000s...

What's the story of the foundation of Weyland-Yutani? Are Charles Bishop Weyland and Peter Weyland to be both founders of the company, which was therefore both founded before the 1990s by Charles and in 2012 by Peter? Hell, is the name of the company Weylan or Weyland?



So yeah, CANON DOES NOT EXIST. At best official canon or movie canon, the two main measures we can find, are everchanging things, subjected to the whim of every producer, creator or rights owner. "Absolute" canon does not exist and never has, canon assumes a thousand forms depending on the criteria. There are in the end as many canons as there are spectators.

And that's where we come into play.

What do YOU regard as valid? If someone asked you "Hey let's create a new Alien story", what episodes would YOU take into account? What would be your timeline of events? What would be your vision of Alien biology, intellect, origin and limitations, of Weylan(d)-Yutani history, of the true nature of Engineers/Space Jockeys, do you even think Predators would fit into the Alien setting? Or the reverse question for Predator-only fans, would you exclude Aliens from the Predator setting?

What is YOUR canon?

What's on a movie screen is canon, cut scenes don't count. If material is conflicting, later movie or movie version trumps earlier ones.

That's it for me. I think it is pretty consistent this way.

So your current canon is the Covenant one, ignoring all Covenant-contradictory material from earlier installments? That's an interesting approach and indeed cab lead to the building of good consistency.

But it could as well go the other way (for example). Considering each new element which does not contradict previous elements is canon, while previous elements take priority in terms of legitimacy.

Yes, that's the way it works for me.

Granted, a consistent canon is not that important to me, so I use a rather simplified and easy approach if I have to name what actually is canon for me.

I basically use the same rules that are used if you interpret conflicting laws of equal rank, later ones trump earlier ones.

The other way round would work if you give earlier work a "higher rank" though.

There is no canon you say?

Rut Roh.

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/51Uiuy5QBZNkoF3b2Z/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5c4f21d9612f704e3656998b)

Where the hell is Xenomrph? He is the canon specialist here.

My canon is any entry that I like and doesn't completely contradict another entry that I like more than it.

Movies weren't enough to please me so I take EU into account. In my canon hierarchy there are the "main entries", the first ones that came so the following can't exist without those, then the ones I like the most, then the ones I can tolerate within my timeline. Movies tend to come higher... mostly. If I hate it or it contradicts anything before it I ignore. Summarising its kind of something like this:

Alien Trilogy + Predator 1 and 2 > AVP2 + Isolation + South China Sea  > others Movies > other Games/Books..

I have been making my Alien-Predator timeline for a while aka my personal canon, which will be quite detailed.

This thread is useless without SM.

& So PredXeno rises.

Canon exists but can only be decided by FOX.

Quote from: yhe1 on Jan 28, 2019, 07:45:16 PM
Canon exists but can only be decided by FOX.

Caner thread/10

If I was trusting a specific official entity to establish what's canon, it would certainly not be the movie company. It would probably be one of the original artists. Except the only main creator alive now is Scott and he's too busy wanking on his ubermensch android to earn my trust.

Samhain, you're joking but the approach you're describing in your parody is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'd be interested by, fans sharing their own very precise and often iconoclast conception of canon. I don't give a shit if it's AVP or Prometheus they integrate in their canon, I'm just eager to discover how other people envision the global consistency. What kind of material they include or exclude, because everyone does these choices, even subconsciously: we need relative consistency for immersion, so we sometimes choose to ignore things and to prioritize other things.

Quote from: Cauchemar on Jan 28, 2019, 08:39:27 PM
Samhain, you're joking but the approach you're describing in your parody is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'd be interested by, fans sharing their own very precise and often iconoclast conception of canon.

I'm not.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 28, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
Alien Trilogy + Predator 1 and 2 > AVP2 + Isolation + South China Sea  > others Movies > other Games/Books..

AvP2 = AvPR?

PredXeno is a classic. I still remember the debates between him and Cvalda (another legend).

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 28, 2019, 09:08:05 PM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 28, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
Alien Trilogy + Predator 1 and 2 > AVP2 + Isolation + South China Sea  > others Movies > other Games/Books..

AvP2 = AvPR?

I think monolith's AVP2

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 28, 2019, 09:08:05 PM

Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 28, 2019, 04:53:46 PM
Alien Trilogy + Predator 1 and 2 > AVP2 + Isolation + South China Sea  > others Movies > other Games/Books..

AvP2 = AvPR?

Actually in my country it was called AvP2, they removed the Requiem for some reason. But no. Its AVP2(2001) of course.

Maybe it was a Catholic thing.

Maybe is just a language/translation thing. I remember that The Ring's title in Spain was "Señales" (signals) and "La LLamada" (The Call) in Argentina  :P

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 28, 2019, 09:51:51 PM
Maybe is just a language/translation thing. I remember that The Ring's title in Spain was "Señales" (signals) and "La LLamada" (The Call) in Argentina  :P

Who knows... the word isn't used much here, first time I heard was through the movie, in portuguese its simply added an accent: Réquiem. It was a suprise this changed because they have a thing for subtitles here. They changed Alien to Alien: The 8th Passenger, Aliens got "The Rescue", Predator 2 got "The Hunt Continues".

Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 28, 2019, 08:57:03 PM

Quote from: Cauchemar on Jan 28, 2019, 08:39:27 PM
Samhain, you're joking but the approach you're describing in your parody is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'd be interested by, fans sharing their own very precise and often iconoclast conception of canon.

I'm not.

Ah, sorry, I didn't know the existence of the comic book Predator South China Sea so the mention of the South China Sea made me think you were joking, I saw it as a humorous enumeration, such as "I'm counting AlienS and Prometheus and KFC restaurant".

Apologies.

In that case I'd love to know more about your timeline and canon.

Quote from: Samhain13 on Jan 28, 2019, 10:02:52 PM

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Jan 28, 2019, 09:51:51 PM
Maybe is just a language/translation thing. I remember that The Ring's title in Spain was "Señales" (signals) and "La LLamada" (The Call) in Argentina  :P

Who knows... the word isn't used much here, first time I heard was through the movie, in portuguese its simply added an accent: Réquiem. It was suprise this change because they have a thing for subtitles here. They changed Alien to Alien: The 8th Passenger, Aliens got "The Rescue", Predator 2 got "The Hunt Continues".

My favorite:

(https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.311862722.3932/flat,550x550,075,f.u1.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71lrLfQyunL._SY679_.jpg)

Quote from: Cauchemar on Jan 28, 2019, 10:09:35 PM
Ah, sorry, I didn't know the existence of the comic book Predator South China Sea so the mention of the South China Sea made me think you were joking, I saw it as a humorous enumeration, such as "I'm counting AlienS and Prometheus and KFC restaurant".

Apologies.

I see lol. No problem. Its actually the best predator novel. Could have been a good Predator 3. https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Predator:_South_China_Sea

Quote from: Cauchemar on Jan 28, 2019, 10:09:35 PM
In that case I'd love to know more about your timeline and canon.

I still got to reread/view/play all the stuff again + the ones I haven't looked yet so I can decide better which ones I will include. The last time I wrote the events were something like:

Prometheus (B.C.)
AVP 2010 (B.C)
AVP (B.C.)
AVP2 Primal Hunt(1730)
Predator: Concrete Jungle (1930)
Predator (1987)
Predator 2 (1997)
Predator: Hell and hot water, Big game, Bad blood
AVP (2004)
AVPR (2004)
Predator: South China Sea (2008)
Predators (2010)
AVP: Eternal (2025)
Predator: Concrete Jungle (2030)
Alien: Steel Egg (2058)
Prometheus (2093)
Alien: Covenant Novel (2104)
ALIEN (2122)
Alien: Isolation (2137)
Alien: Out of Shadows (2159)
Alien: River of Pain (2179)
ALIENS (2179)
ALIEN 3 (2179)
AVP 1989 Comic, Duel, Booty
Fire and Stone (2219)
Defiance
AVP2 (2230-2231)
AVP: 2010
AVP: Extinction
AVP: Thrill of the hunt/ Civilized beasts
Alien: No Exit
Alien: DNA War
ALIEN R. (2381)
Aliens: Sea of sorrows (2497)
The Rage War (2692)

Its still missing like a dozen. It will go into more detail on my blog: https://samhain13.home.blog/alien-predator-timeline/

My site is still on progress, most of the stuff is already on my word document, but I got to organize some things before pasting on the site. Lately I have been doing a timeline of the Gears of War Universe, its easier since its only 5 games, 5 books and one continuity. So the Alien-Predator one will take a while. Hopefully I will finish this year.

Do me a favour and don't take it seriously, I just like writing timelines about stuff I enjoy, I don't want to start any canon wars.  :D

Predator = Predator, Predator 2 and Predators

Alien = Alien, Alien Isolation, Aliens and Alien 3.

Quote from: The Old One on Jan 08, 2019, 05:08:54 PM
Film Canon, The Old One's interpretation;

  PREDATOR  (Either timeline, no references to either Prometheus or AVP 2004)

PREDATOR 2 (Either timeline, no references to either Prometheus or AVP 2004)

P R E D A T O R S (Either timeline, no references to either Prometheus or AVP 2004)

THE PREDATOR™ (AVP 2004 Timeline direct reference & Xenomorph Trophy)

A L I E N (Either timeline, no references to either Prometheus or AVP 2004)

AL|ENS  (Either timeline, no references to either Prometheus or AVP 2004)

ALIEN³ (Michael Bishop = Prometheus, Michael Bishop Weyland = AVP 2004)

Regarding Michael Bishop Weyland;

Well, it's the same as Alien & Aliens,
only this time there's directly an element
which MUST be different depending upon-
if you've watching it through the lens of the
AVP continuity. (Charles, Michael, Karl.)
AVP, AVPR, The Predator, AVP 2010.

Or the 2012+ Prometheus continuity,
where the character is firmly established
as human and simply one of many great thinkers.

AR (Either timeline.)

Personal Canon: W.I.P

(Alien)
Blade Runner 4K Version
Blade Runner Blackout 2022
Peter Weyland TEDTalk 2023
Blade Runner 2049
Weyland Corporation Timeline
David Commercial
Elizabeth Shaw QE
USCSS Prometheus Transmission
Prometheus
Walter Commercial
The Crossing
Alien: Covenant
U.S.C.S.S Covenant Transmission

ALIEN Theatrical Release
ALIEN Isolation
Aliens Defiance & Resistance (TBC)
Aliens Theatrical Release
Aliens Infestation
Alien³ Special Edition
Alien: The Cold Forge

The Weyland Yutani Report
& David's Drawings


(AVP)
Alien Timeline+
Predator
Predator 2

Predator: South China Sea
Predators
Monolith's Alien Versus Predator

&:


https://youtu.be/um9r8qlYM-Y?t=8  ;D

https://youtu.be/cMAEtQcOo8w

Yes, there is.

Grass isn't green, SM, didn't you know that.  :D

(https://static.businessinsider.sg/2018/08/08/5b79880cb354cd9d268b4eba.png)

Personally, I'm all for a bit fanon or headcanon but people need to recognise that there is a canon and that it is dictated by Fox. At least on the Alien side. I don't know how organized the Predator side actually is. It'd be nice if they came out and said it in some official capacity or kept a list for all to see, though.

Indeed.

But what would we do without the is "X" Canon arguments?

Although I think my head would explode if I saw either F&S, TRW or Titan Trilogy regarded as Canon. :laugh:

That's unfortunate. They are.  :D

---

TRW?

---

Oh, Rage War.

Quote from: The Old One on Jan 29, 2019, 09:19:30 AM
Indeed.

But what would we do without the is "X" Canon arguments?

Although I think my head would explode if I saw either F&S, TRW or Titan Trilogy regarded as Canon. :laugh:

Post pics

Roods. No noods.

No... AP.

Spoiler

Contradicts/doesn't align w'the films = Non-Canon. The aforementioned material.

[close]

Just what the Fox says.

Gearbox's ACM = "Canon" once,
Randy Pitchford lol.
:D

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/da46a5f78a05773ce44411fe93b02e65/tumblr_omo2i1PoOH1uijsn1o1_250.gif)

This can change like ACM's status did (Praise the lord). As it stands, this is where we're at.

Prometheus, Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection. All books after (and including) Out of the Shadows (though only some of Bug Hunt. Hell if I know which). All comics after (and including) Fire and Stone. All games after (and including) Isolation.

Problem is that Covenant does affect the Shadow trilogy and probably the Rage one as well. Aliens are depicted as being ancient in those books, having killed off another civiliation centuries before the Marion mining peeps found their bodies.

They'll just have to change those aliens to Neomorphs now, easy fix.  ;D

If only it could be that easy. The book describes them as looking like the aliens, black, acid blood and Ripley recognizes them.

Yes indeed, they'll just have to make some revised editions. Not that they will, mind you lol

Quote from: The Cruentus on Jan 29, 2019, 12:05:08 PM
Problem is that Covenant does affect the Shadow trilogy and probably the Rage one as well. Aliens are depicted as being ancient in those books, having killed off another civiliation centuries before the Marion mining peeps found their bodies.

That's going to depend on where a potential third prequel takes that Alien creation angle. If Scott continues down the current road it's going to wipe out Titan's current stuff (aside from Cold Forge).

This is true.

My current personal canon includes:

Predator: 1718
Predator: Hell Come a Walkin'
Predator: Nemesis
Predator: The Bloody Sands of Time
Predator: Blood on Two-Witch Mesa
Predator
Predator: Concrete Jungle (comic/novel)
Predator: Cold War
Predator: Big Game
Predator: Bad Blood
Predator: Dark River
Predator 2
Predator: Hunters
Alien vs. Predator
Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem
Predator: Turnabout
Predator: South China Sea
Predator: Prey to the Heavens
Predators: Preserve the Game
Predators
The Predator: Hunters and Hunted
The Predator
Aliens vs. Predator: Eternal
Predator: Concrete Jungle (game)
Prometheus
Alien: Covenant - Origins
Alien: Covenant
Alien
Alien: Isolation (comic)
Alien: Isolation
Aliens: Defiance
Aliens: Resistance
Aliens: Alchemy
Alien: Out of the Shadows
Alien: River of Pain
Aliens
Alien: The Cold Forge

This is where there is a divergence in the timeline. It has nothing to do with time travel or anything like that but simply the hypothetical of parallel universes. There are approximately 3 self-contained realities co-existing with the main timeline making up a multiverse of sorts. Depending on what happens to Ripley, Newt, Hicks and Bishop whilst in cryo-sleep in the Sulaco on the way back to Earth decides the future of that particular timeline.

The main timeline is:

Alien 3
Alien: Resurrection
Aliens: Original Sin

The first alternate reality is:

Aliens: Outbreak
Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
Aliens: Female War
Aliens: The Alien
Aliens: Genocide
Aliens: Harvest
Aliens: Horror Show
Aliens: Music of the Spears
Aliens: Crusade
Aliens (2009 short story)
Aliens: More Than Human

Second alternate reality:

William Gibson's Alien 3

The third:

What ever Neill Blomkamp's film was to become.


From here the rest of the material I'm going to list I include in all timelines:

Aliens: Tribes
Aliens: Renegade
Aliens: Colonial Marines (comic)
Aliens: Rogue
Aliens: Backlash
Aliens: Labyrinth
Aliens: Salvation
Aliens: Stronghold
Aliens: Frenzy
Aliens: Mondo Pest
Aliens: Mondo Heat
Aliens: Lovesick
Aliens: Purge
Aliens: Kidnapped
Aliens: Survival
Aliens: Wraith
Aliens: Apocalypse
Aliens: Once in a Lifetime
Aliens: Fast Track to Heaven
Aliens: Inhuman Condition
Aliens: Dead Orbit
Aliens: Dust to Dust
Aliens vs. Predator (original comic series)
Aliens vs. Predator: Blood Time
Aliens vs. Predator: Duel
Aliens vs. Predator: War
Aliens vs. Predator: The Web
Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War
Aliens vs. Predator: Deadliest of the Species
Aliens vs. Predator: Pursuit
(Not all comics are listed because the list is already long enough but I tried to include the most important ones.)
Aliens versus Predator 2/Primal Hunt
Aliens versus Predator: Extinction
Aliens vs. Predator (2010)
Alien: Sea of Sorrows
The Rage War
(Most but not all short stories from the Bug Hunt and If It Bleeds anthologies are also included)


"The Word of God" of what is and is not canon to me would need to be an official statement from Fox.

I tend to consider the director and assembly cuts canon though the Runner gestated in a dog. So that means yes to eggmorphing, sentry guns, royal facehugger and the capturing of the Runner.

Until David is confirmed as the outright creator of the Xenomorph species I can easily consider AVP canon.

Relating to the founding of Weyland-Yutani - Charles Bishop Weyland inherited the family's satellite mapping company Weyland Industries. Under the young Weyland's supervision, the family business grew to be the largest satellite systems operation in the world within a decade. Weyland's business success was offset by personal misfortune when he was diagnosed with advanced bronchogenic carcinoma — lung cancer. Days after his 14th birthday, Peter Weyland is granted a Method Patent for a synthetic trachea constructed entirely of synthetically-engineered stem cells in an attempt to save his father/relative. But at around the same time, 3 October 2004, Weyland Industries Satellite PS-12 detected a heat bloom beneath the Antarctic island of Bouvetøya, which revealed an ancient pyramid complex buried deep beneath the ice. Charles decided that he didn't have the time for the operation and risk the discovery falling in to competitor hands and so quickly assembled an expedition to investigate the discovery. 8 years later Peter Weyland founded the eponymous Weyland Corporation using his inherited assets and the groundwork his father/relative layed out before him with Weyland Industries.

My personal canon towards the Engineers: 4,600,000,000 BC - Space Jockeys/Pilots create Engineers. 3,200,000,000 BC - Space Jockeys unleash Xenomorphs creating a universal wave of extinction. Pilots almost successfully exterminate Engineers before the Xenomorph infestation backfires on them, wiping them out. The Engineers create the Black Pathogen using Xenomorph samples and start to seed the universe with new life using a form of the Black Pathogen in combination with their own DNA. A cycle of life and death/creation and destruction.

Prometheus
Alien: Covenant
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Resurrection

And, depending on how I'm feeling, Alien: Isolation. It is the one piece of expanded universe material I've experienced that really feels like it deserves to sit alongside the films.

TCF > Isolation IMO

& Canon, friend.
No fanfiction.

Do we have a list of what FOX currently considers canon?

Quote from: yhe1 on Jan 29, 2019, 07:27:41 PM
Do we have a list of what FOX currently considers canon?

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
This can change like ACM's status did (Praise the lord). As it stands, this is where we're at.

Prometheus, Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection. All books after Out of the Shadows (though only some of Bug Hunt. Hell if I know which). All comics after Fire and Stone. All games after Isolation.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2019, 07:32:28 PM

Quote from: yhe1 on Jan 29, 2019, 07:27:41 PM
Do we have a list of what FOX currently considers canon?

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Jan 29, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
This can change like ACM's status did (Praise the lord). As it stands, this is where we're at.

Prometheus, Covenant, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection. All books after Out of the Shadows (though only some of Bug Hunt. Hell if I know which). All comics after Fire and Stone. All games after Isolation.

So isolation isn't canon?

After (and including).

QuoteRelating to the founding of Weyland-Yutani - Charles Bishop Weyland inherited the family's satellite mapping company Weyland Industries. Under the young Weyland's supervision, the family business grew to be the largest satellite systems operation in the world within a decade. Weyland's business success was offset by personal misfortune when he was diagnosed with advanced bronchogenic carcinoma — lung cancer. Days after his 14th birthday, Peter Weyland is granted a Method Patent for a synthetic trachea constructed entirely of synthetically-engineered stem cells in an attempt to save his father/relative. But at around the same time, 3 October 2004, Weyland Industries Satellite PS-12 detected a heat bloom beneath the Antarctic island of Bouvetøya, which revealed an ancient pyramid complex buried deep beneath the ice. Charles decided that he didn't have the time for the operation and risk the discovery falling in to competitor hands and so quickly assembled an expedition to investigate the discovery. 8 years later Peter Weyland founded the eponymous Weyland Corporation using his inherited assets and the groundwork his father/relative layed out before him with Weyland Industries.

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-ssoEhiqSFf4%2FVhCRP0dwpbI%2FAAAAAAAAPR0%2FWr4-_AwOh6w%2Fs1600%2Flow%252Bearth.PNG&hash=ffdf77a42ac0dfa8911f79dbe7586b05c3a9f4a2)

Industries and Corporation are interchangeable.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 24, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
So if one ignores the web site and viral ads, one can postulate that Prometheus and AvP are reconcilable.  No?

Quote from: Cauchemar on Jan 28, 2019, 09:34:01 AM
THERE IS NO ALIEN OR ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR CANON.

A man after my own heart. ;D

"Canon" is a genuinely fascinating philosophical concept, even if it's ultimately meaningless on an audience level.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 30, 2019, 05:48:34 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 24, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
So if one ignores the web site and viral ads, one can postulate that Prometheus and AvP are reconcilable.  No?

No.

"Building Better Worlds Since 12/12/2012"
-Prometheus Credits

I wonder if any filthy casuals have asked how the aliens could have been invented by RoboMagneto in our future if they were already shown to be on Earth in the ancient past.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 30, 2019, 05:59:18 AM
I wonder if any filthy casuals have asked how the aliens could have been invented by RoboMagneto in our future if they were already shown to be on Earth in the ancient past.

I've seen it happen.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 30, 2019, 05:48:33 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 24, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
So if one ignores the web site and viral ads, one can postulate that Prometheus and AvP are reconcilable.  No?

Do you have everything you've ever posted Favourited?

Quote from: SM on Jan 30, 2019, 06:10:58 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 30, 2019, 05:48:33 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Sep 24, 2012, 01:51:22 AM
So if one ignores the web site and viral ads, one can postulate that Prometheus and AvP are reconcilable.  No?

Do you have everything you've ever posted Favourited?

Eidetic memory.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 06, 2019, 09:54:58 AM
It's a combination of deja vu followed by a quick search of a keyword that I vaguely recall using.

"Real/official" canon: I honestly don't care most of the time.

Personal canon, if pressed: scott prequels, original trilogy. Rez is neither here nor there since i like it a lot but it's both unnecessary and irrelevent. Again, this is more what i'll say if someone demands i define it, it's generally more blurred due to apathy.

Expanded personal canon: i like the idea of including the first Species movie. AvP (original comic) and AvP2 (pc game) are the only "vs" releases that have truly stuck with me, so they can come too i guess.

I personally prefer my own canon, because not everyone agrees with me and that's fine. So here's my canon:

Predator: 1987
Predator 2: 1997
Predators: 2010 (It was never given an exact date, but knowing The Predator isn't in my canon it doesn't really matter)
Alien: 2122
Alien Isolation: 2137
Aliens: 2179
Alien 3: (I was told the same year as Aliens but can't remember where I got that from)

For me personally, since I haven't read most comic books (I will I need money to buy things though) those aren't on here just yet. I also didn't add too many video games besides Isolation as I think it works better than most, and I didn't add AVP, AVPR, The Predator, Prometheus, or Alien Covenant as I didn't like 3 of the movies (The last 3), and I just think it's right not to have AVP or AVPR in canon as I feel it doesn't need to even exist in canon, it doesn't change anything to the story, and adds nothing.

AVP TIMELINE
1987 - Predator
1997 - Predator 2
2004 - Alien Vs. Predator
2004 - Aliens Vs. Predator: Requiem
2008 - Predators
2018 - The Predator

ALIEN TIMELINE
2023 - The Peter Weyland Files - TED Conference, 2023 (short)
2079 - The Peter Weyland Files - Happy Birthday, David (short)
2089 - The Peter Weyland Files - Quiet Eye, Elizabeth Shaw (short)
2091 - The Peter Weyland Files - Prometheus Transmission (short)
2093 - Prometheus
2094 - Alien: Covenant Prologue - The Crossing (short)
approx. 2103 - Meet Walter (short)
2103 - Alien Covenant - Phobos (short)
2103 - Alien: Covenant - Origins (novel)
2104 - Alien: Covenant Prologue - The Last Supper (short)
2104 - Alien: Covenant
2104 - Alien: Covenant - Advent (short)
2122 - Alien
2137 - Alien: Isolation (comic)
2137 - Alien: Isolation (video game)
2137 - Alien: Blackout (video game)
2137 - Aliens: Defiance (comics)
2140 - Aliens: Resistance (comics)
approx. 2140 - Aliens: Rescue (comics)
2179 - Aliens
2179 - Alien: The Cold Forge (novel)
2179 - Alien³
2??? - Dust to Dust (comic)
2295 - Dead Orbit (comic)
2434 - Alien Resurrection

(I'd really like a year for Dust to Dust!)

Quote from: Predwars24 on Mar 19, 2019, 06:15:26 PM
I personally prefer my own canon, because not everyone agrees with me and that's fine. So here's my canon:

Predator: 1987
Predator 2: 1997
Predators: 2010 (It was never given an exact date, but knowing The Predator isn't in my canon it doesn't really matter)
Alien: 2122
Alien Isolation: 2137
Aliens: 2179
Alien 3: (I was told the same year as Aliens but can't remember where I got that from)

For me personally, since I haven't read most comic books (I will I need money to buy things though) those aren't on here just yet. I also didn't add too many video games besides Isolation as I think it works better than most, and I didn't add AVP, AVPR, The Predator, Prometheus, or Alien Covenant as I didn't like 3 of the movies (The last 3), and I just think it's right not to have AVP or AVPR in canon as I feel it doesn't need to even exist in canon, it doesn't change anything to the story, and adds nothing.

I go with 2008 for Predators.

For me all movies are canon. I don't have feeling "oh i wish that movie destroyed by meteorite sent by God" with any of them. Even if AVP contradicts with prequels - i just don't care.

If about games talking. I choose AVP games and Isolation. ACM? No thanks.

Not sure about books and comics though. It's tricky.

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
For me all movies are canon. I don't have feeling "oh i wish that movie destroyed by meteorite sent by God" with any of them. Even if AVP contradicts with prequels - i just don't care.

If about games talking. I choose AVP games and Isolation. ACM? No thanks.

Not sure about books and comics though. It's tricky.

The Predator getting destroyed by meteorite would be nice. It would definitely have to be from God though. The devil doesn't destroy his own.  ;D

I've got three main headcanons:

The first is my "if it sucks, ignore it" timeline, where it's basically the movies by themselves (minus the AVPs) plus whatever random bits from the EU fit without too much duct tape. Alien and Predator are separate, and the movies themselves take precedence over other concerns (websites, tie-ins, etc.)

The second is a sort of "broad strokes" continuity, where the general world/tone/whatever is there (ie: there are Aliens, there are Predators, sometimes they fight) but the specific details are sort of vague. There's A Weyland-Yutani Corp, but people can't seem to remember when it was founded. SOMETHING happened on LV-426, but whether Ripley's still alive is up in the air. Kind of place that might be fun to play a tabletop game in, but not really a specific timeline.

Finally, there's this completely insane timeline where as much as possible is crammed into one meta-narrative - the prequels, the comics, AVP, A:CM, the Kenner toys, E V E R Y T H I N G. It is not a healthy thing, this timeline; it's held together with paperclips, duct tape, and a strategically-placed cucumber. It lurches along, subsisting entirely on raw fish heads, making strange gurgling noises as it attempts to portray 'Wilks' and Hicks as two different people. It is repulsive to look at, and must occasionally be restrained for its own safety. I love it all the same.

... Yes, even when it tries to tell me that there were two Runners in Alien 3 and that's why both cuts count NO YOU SHUT UP

I should probably confess to having a wildly divergent personal canon for a series of rpg games i've run, although that's essentially fanfic so while it's canon for game purposes i don't try to apply it to the outside world. Covenants neomorphs kinda canonised a bunch of my nonsense though. :D

Quote from: Huggs on Mar 20, 2019, 11:33:53 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
For me all movies are canon. I don't have feeling "oh i wish that movie destroyed by meteorite sent by God" with any of them. Even if AVP contradicts with prequels - i just don't care.

If about games talking. I choose AVP games and Isolation. ACM? No thanks.

Not sure about books and comics though. It's tricky.

The Predator getting destroyed by meteorite would be nice. It would definitely have to be from God though. The devil doesn't destroy his own.  ;D

Should i build meteorite-protected house and live in it? Because i like The Predator. Sorry.

I don't think insurance will pay for that, at least not at a cheap price.

Quote
I don't think insurance will pay for that, at least not at a cheap price.

(https://i.imgur.com/zNP85pW.gif)

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 21, 2019, 09:38:43 AM

Quote from: Huggs on Mar 20, 2019, 11:33:53 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
For me all movies are canon. I don't have feeling "oh i wish that movie destroyed by meteorite sent by God" with any of them. Even if AVP contradicts with prequels - i just don't care.

If about games talking. I choose AVP games and Isolation. ACM? No thanks.

Not sure about books and comics though. It's tricky.

The Predator getting destroyed by meteorite would be nice. It would definitely have to be from God though. The devil doesn't destroy his own.  ;D

Should i build meteorite-protected house and live in it? Because i like The Predator. Sorry.

Also enjoy The Predator.

Quote from: BlazinBlue88 on Mar 21, 2019, 10:26:27 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 21, 2019, 09:38:43 AM

Quote from: Huggs on Mar 20, 2019, 11:33:53 PM

Quote from: Kradan on Mar 20, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
For me all movies are canon. I don't have feeling "oh i wish that movie destroyed by meteorite sent by God" with any of them. Even if AVP contradicts with prequels - i just don't care.

If about games talking. I choose AVP games and Isolation. ACM? No thanks.

Not sure about books and comics though. It's tricky.

The Predator getting destroyed by meteorite would be nice. It would definitely have to be from God though. The devil doesn't destroy his own.  ;D

Should i build meteorite-protected house and live in it? Because i like The Predator. Sorry.

Also enjoy The Predator.

I've had brainless fun with some of it myself. It's best when one is GINTASTIC!

Quote from: [CANCERBLACK] on Mar 21, 2019, 06:11:06 AM
I should probably confess to having a wildly divergent personal canon for a series of rpg games i've run, although that's essentially fanfic so while it's canon for game purposes i don't try to apply it to the outside world. Covenants neomorphs kinda canonised a bunch of my nonsense though. :D

The beauty of RPGs is as long as everyone in on the same page - canon is whatever you like.

Canon:

Predator
Predator 2
Alien Vs Predator (including Requiem)
Predators
The Predator (2018 fanedit)

Prometheus: Giftbearer
Alien: Covenant

Alien (theatrical and directors cut)
Aliens
Alien 3 Assembly Cut
Alien Resurrection DC

This is what I consider to be my personal canon.

Quote from: Naginata on Mar 21, 2019, 12:18:50 AM
The second is a sort of "broad strokes" continuity, where the general world/tone/whatever is there (ie: there are Aliens, there are Predators, sometimes they fight) but the specific details are sort of vague. There's A Weyland-Yutani Corp, but people can't seem to remember when it was founded. SOMETHING happened on LV-426, but whether Ripley's still alive is up in the air. Kind of place that might be fun to play a tabletop game in, but not really a specific timeline.

Finally, there's this completely insane timeline where as much as possible is crammed into one meta-narrative - the prequels, the comics, AVP, A:CM, the Kenner toys, E V E R Y T H I N G. It is not a healthy thing, this timeline; it's held together with paperclips, duct tape, and a strategically-placed cucumber. It lurches along, subsisting entirely on raw fish heads, making strange gurgling noises as it attempts to portray 'Wilks' and Hicks as two different people. It is repulsive to look at, and must occasionally be restrained for its own safety. I love it all the same.

... Yes, even when it tries to tell me that there were two Runners in Alien 3 and that's why both cuts count NO YOU SHUT UP

LMAO Yes!! That abominable omniverse is so much fun to imagine with all the 'what if' type stuff! Using that 'broad strokes' sorta mentality for the AvP universe just makes sense for me too personally, everything benefits from the air of mystery and I'm not too concerned with a hard timeline/continuity anyway.

For MY AvP Cannon: The cosmos are extremely cruel and extremely ancient and life within it equally so...the Xenomorph, Engineers, Predators and even humanity exemplify that hostile nature. Nothing is safe, nothing is known with certainty, none escape and no screams are heard.

Abominable indeed.

Quote from: BlazinBlue88 on Mar 21, 2019, 11:49:25 PM
Canon:

Predator
Predator 2
Alien Vs Predator (including Requiem)
Predators
The Predator (2018 fanedit)

Prometheus: Giftbearer
Alien: Covenant

Alien (theatrical and directors cut)
Aliens
Alien 3 Assembly Cut
Alien Resurrection DC

This is what I consider to be my personal canon.

The Predator fan edit? Curious. Do tell...

Personal canon:

None.

Forum Canon:

Whatever the OP of a thread wants to include in a conversation.

Quote from: SiL on Mar 23, 2019, 11:29:28 AM
Personal canon:

None.

Forum Canon:

Whatever the OP of a thread wants to include in a conversation.

That's an interesting stance.

Outside of this forum, you have no opinion whatsoever about what you consider "true" or "authoritative" within the A/P/AvP franchise?

Quote from: Xenomrph on Mar 23, 2019, 05:05:33 PM

Quote from: SiL on Mar 23, 2019, 11:29:28 AM
Personal canon:

None.

Forum Canon:

Whatever the OP of a thread wants to include in a conversation.

That's an interesting stance.

Outside of this forum, you have no opinion whatsoever about what you consider "true" or "authoritative" within the A/P/AvP franchise?

"There is nothing in the desert"

Hi guys!

It is not clear to me if the books of the Out of the Shadows trilogy and those of Rage Wars are currently considered canonical!

I also read that the AvP and Predator franchises are to be considered separate from those of Alien/Aliens and Prometheus. So, should only those of Alien / Aliens and Prometheus from the Fire and Stone, Life and Death series and the Rage Wars books be considered in the timeline?

Thanks!

No-one really knows at the minute, JD. There's no-one at Studios/Disney shepherding at the minute.

Quote from: JDrums on May 05, 2020, 05:26:58 PM
Hi guys!

It is not clear to me if the books of the Out of the Shadows trilogy and those of Rage Wars are currently considered canonical!

I also read that the AvP and Predator franchises are to be considered separate from those of Alien/Aliens and Prometheus. So, should only those of Alien / Aliens and Prometheus from the Fire and Stone, Life and Death series and the Rage Wars books be considered in the timeline?

Thanks!

I could ask Andrew Gaska, he seems to have a direct line to FOX/Disney on those matters even in current circumstances, since he's continuously working on the Alien RPG.

THAT SAID, canon is a nonsense construct blah blah I've said it a dozen times in this thread yadda yadda.

Without canon this forum would tear itself apart!  >:(

Covenant contradicted the ancient xenomorphs Out of the Shadows, unless you follow the fan theories that David didn't create the aliens, (which I'm pretty sure Andrew Gaska subscribes to). So it can still be canon if you reject David as the creator and are willing to swallow the contrived idea that Ripley had another adventure in between Alien and Aliens.

Sea of Sorrows is a sequel to Out of the Shadows, so same goes for that one.

River of Pain has a lot of continuity errors with Aliens. The most annoying part for me is the concept that there was already a squad of colonial marines at Hadley's Hope before the takeover and the film doesn't mention it at all. If you're willing to swallow that, River of Pain can be canon too.

I haven't read Rage Wars.

Quote from: Local Trouble on May 05, 2020, 09:22:53 PM
Without canon this forum would tear itself apart!  >:(

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!  >:(

Quote from: David's Creation on May 05, 2020, 09:33:35 PM
Covenant contradicted the ancient xenomorphs Out of the Shadows, unless you follow the fan theories that David didn't create the aliens, (which I'm pretty sure Andrew Gaska subscribes to). So it can still be canon if you reject David as the creator and are willing to swallow the contrived idea that Ripley had another adventure in between Alien and Aliens.

Covenant also contradicted 'Alien' establishing that the Derelict/Space Jockey was ancient (and therefore, so was the Alien) but that's neither here nor there.

Agreed that putting Marines at Hadley's Hope before 'Aliens' was goofy shit, but apparently that was a FOX mandate (as was Ripley's adventure in Out of the Shadows).

God, those books sound awful.  I mean, it sounds like the stories themselves originally had potential but for those "Fox mandates."

Out of the Shadows is pretty solid despite the premise, especially the audio drama version. The authors do what they can with what they're given, as is the nature of franchise tie-in writing.

Yes, yes and yes again

Quote from: Oasis NadramaCanon does not exist so... What is YOUR Alien versus Predator canon?

The canon is as real as your opinion, my friend.

Quote from: Oasis NadramaWhat would you define as "canon universe"?

Whatever the IP owners consider as canon. The canon is subject to change anyway. And by changes, I mean official changes.  :laugh:

Quote from: Oasis NadramaWhat would you define as "canon chronology"?

The Alien Universe Timeline

Quote from: Oasis NadramaWhat would you define as "the Word of God" here?

As I'd said, whatever the IP owners consider as canon. There are different IPs though. Maybe some people are mixing pears with apples based on Easter eggs and personal fantasies.

   The Banned Histories – Pre-history to 2008

I'm not saying head canon isn't fun though.

Quote from: Oasis NadramaThe "canon is whatever is on the cinema screen" rule does not manage to define a consistent canon.

Neither the "canon is whatever is on the fan's head".

Quote from: Oasis NadramaWhat is YOUR canon?

Alien, Predator and AVP - each one in its own universe.  8)

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 05, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
No-one really knows at the minute, JD. There's no-one at Studios/Disney shepherding at the minute.

Thanks CH :) ! More generally, can novelisations be considered canonical? I guess so, as long as they don't contradict the film! Quite right?

That's a fairly common stance.

There must be a hierarchy of canon. In this way we would have untouchable source material, and things that no matter how good or bad they are, don't have the same status. In Star Wars for example, Disney has put a lot of order now, but Lucas' vision of the canon was clear enough IMO : You find the untouchable canon in the movies. The EU is canon as long as it doesn't contradict the source material, which is in the movies. The canon hierarchy should be applied to the films themselves in the case of Alien & Predator. Because seriously, I don't see AVP movies as serious source material for Alien & Predator. They are at best their own canon. By way of illustration, AVP Requiem is like a slasher style parody of Alien & Predator. And while it can be enjoyed for what it is, it shouldn't be taken so seriously. I mean, it's just a crossover that only got a little love letter from Shane Black. And even that shouldn't be taken so seriously IMO.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 06, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
There must be a hierarchy of canon.

Why? According to Disney, everything is on level footing with Star Wars (although in practice this is questionable).

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 06, 2020, 01:59:50 PMThe EU is canon as long as it doesn't contradict the source material, which is in the movies.

The way the RPG handles it, even if there are "contradictions" there are still elements from such contradictory EU sources which are still canon. Even if the events of the Alien invasion of earth in the comics didn't happen, the planet Rim still exists (and it's on the star map), Wilks and Billie could potentially exist as characters, etc. The Kenner comics are "canon", insofar as the technology, equipment, Alien variants, and planets are concerned because none of that contradicts the movies.

Star Wars has been doing similar things with the "new canon" - post reboot, huge swaths of the old EU have been reintroduced back into the new canon. For example, even though the events of 'Shadows of the Empire' didn't take place in the new canon, the character of Dash Rendar still exists, as does his ship the Outrider, and the Black Sun criminal organization.

I think this is an important distinction to make, as opposed to disregarding stories wholesale because one element of them contradicts something else.

My AVP headcanon is basically:

AVP (Movie)

AVP: Requiem

Prey (novel version)

Hunter's Planet

My headcanon essentially just the six Alien films.

There are other materials in the current established "canon" that I enjoy (specifically, Alien: Isolation (the video game, not its various adaptations), Alien: The Cold Forge, Aliens: Dead Orbit, and Aliens: Phalanx), the Prometheus/Alien: Covenant viral marketing material/short films, and a few of the 40th Anniversary Shorts (Specimen, Ore, and Alone), that I guess I would consider ancillary canon, or a lower "tier" if you will. But canon isn't really an argument that factors in my mind when I'm experiencing these things. I can enjoy The Cold Forge and, say, Aliens: Inhuman Condition in the same way without caring that one is officially considered canonical and one isn't.

This franchise's relationship with expanded universe material is pretty funny to me. Literally every single Alien movie since Aliens has broken most -if not all- EU from potential canon.

If Alien Awakening ever happens, I'm half expecting it to contradict Isolation.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 06, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
The canon hierarchy should be applied to the films themselves in the case of Alien & Predator. Because seriously, I don't see AVP movies as serious source material for Alien & Predator. They are at best their own canon. By way of illustration, AVP Requiem is like a slasher style parody of Alien & Predator. And while it can be enjoyed for what it is, it shouldn't be taken so seriously. I mean, it's just a crossover that only got a little love letter from Shane Black. And even that shouldn't be taken so seriously IMO.

Disweyland may change things, but as of The Predator, both AvP films are canonical to Predator.

(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)

Quote from: Voodoo Magic on May 08, 2020, 04:03:32 PM

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 06, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
The canon hierarchy should be applied to the films themselves in the case of Alien & Predator. Because seriously, I don't see AVP movies as serious source material for Alien & Predator. They are at best their own canon. By way of illustration, AVP Requiem is like a slasher style parody of Alien & Predator. And while it can be enjoyed for what it is, it shouldn't be taken so seriously. I mean, it's just a crossover that only got a little love letter from Shane Black. And even that shouldn't be taken so seriously IMO.

Disweyland may change things, but as of The Predator, both AvP films are canonical to Predator.

(https://i.ibb.co/cFJ77H6/IMG-20200316-171937.jpg)

It is true! there is no protagonist journey like in Alien, so each installment is like a standalone movie. However, this should be the chronological order:

1987 - Predator.
1997 - Predator 2.
2004 - Alien Vs Predator.
2004 -Alien Vs Predator: Requiem.
2018 - The Predator.
21st century ¿? - Predators.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on May 08, 2020, 05:39:45 PM
1987 - Predator.
1997 - Predator 2.
1997 - Predator 2.
1997 - Predator 2.
1997 - Predator 2.
1997 - Predator 2.

Got it, thanks. :)

 :laugh:

I could go with Alien and Predator/AvP being one timeline or two separate timelines. My personal Canon is as such:

Predator
Predator 2
AvP
Predators (whenever that movie is supposed to take place)
The Predator
Prometheus
Alien: Covenant
Alien
Alien Isolation
Aliens (Special Edition)
Alien 3 the Comic (basically the Assembly Cut but with the Dog Alien instead of the Ox Alien and the Queen Chestburster being included at the end)

I haven't read the books, so I don't really have an opinion on them.
I don't count AvP:R because it's supposed to take place immediately after AVP, which took place in October 2004, but it clearly isn't October. Plus, it sucks.
The Predator may be stupid, but at least it's fun.
I don't count A:R, but I don't discount it either. It's just... unnecessary. It's a side story, Alien "Gaiden" if you will. 
I don't see any problem fitting the AvP films with the prequel films. I see Peter Weyland as the son of Charles Bishop Weyland, and he inherited Weyland Industries and rebranded it as the Weyland Corporation. The Engineers created the Xenomorphs and David recreated them. The Derelict and the Space Jockey from Alien were ancient.
As for video games aside from Alien Isolation, maybe Aliens Infestation and AvP 2010.

Quote from: DiabloGuapo on May 09, 2020, 07:49:13 AM
I could go with Alien and Predator/AvP being one timeline or two separate timelines. My personal Canon is as such:

Predator
Predator 2
AvP
Predators (whenever that movie is supposed to take place)
The Predator
Prometheus
Alien: Covenant
Alien
Alien Isolation
Aliens (Special Edition)
Alien 3 the Comic (basically the Assembly Cut but with the Dog Alien instead of the Ox Alien and the Queen Chestburster being included at the end)

Yay !

Quote from: DiabloGuapo on May 09, 2020, 07:49:13 AM
I haven't read the books, so I don't really have an opinion on them.
I don't count AvP:R because it's supposed to take place immediately after AVP, which took place in October 2004, but it clearly isn't October. Plus, it sucks.
The Predator may be stupid, but at least it's fun.
I don't count A:R, but I don't discount it either. It's just... unnecessary. It's a side story, Alien "Gaiden" if you will. 
I don't see any problem fitting the AvP films with the prequel films. I see Peter Weyland as the son of Charles Bishop Weyland, and he inherited Weyland Industries and rebranded it as the Weyland Corporation. The Engineers created the Xenomorphs and David recreated them. The Derelict and the Space Jockey from Alien were ancient.
As for video games aside from Alien Isolation, maybe Aliens Infestation and AvP 2010.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6f3d12f4c131b238a899fba152fadcc6/tenor.gif?itemid=9528130)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESNkWFNXUAETIg3?format=jpg&name=large)

No love for 3 ?

Quote from: Kradan on May 10, 2020, 10:35:20 PM
No love for 3 ?

Not an uncommon opinion.

I have a weird view on this:

First, there's the Alien universe including the original films and Prequels.

Then the AVP universe featuring the Original films, the prequels, the AVP films and the Predator films.

Then there's the AVPVBR universe featuring the original films, the prequels, the AVP films, the Predator films and the Blade Runner films.

Then there's the AVPVBRVWhateverelse universe featuring the above + a bunch of films that seem to fit.

Other than the usual Outland and Soldier, what other movies do you count in the "whatever else"?

Outland and Soldier of course, but also: Event Horizon and  the 2 The things

Event horizon because it's Space horror, has that guy from Jurassic park and aesthetically fits also, it seems to fit within the timeline, Arnold Schwarzeneggars total recall fits in the timeline but the tone doesn't work enough for me.

The Thing because the tone is similar and you could think that the ship might be an engineer one of some sort, if you excuse the bad CGI from the 2nd one.

Quote from: Dingbat on May 12, 2020, 05:38:36 PM
Outland and Soldier of course, but also: Event Horizon and  the 2 The things

Event horizon because it's Space horror, has that guy from Jurassic park and aesthetically fits also, it seems to fit within the timeline, Arnold Schwarzeneggars total recall fits in the timeline but the tone doesn't work enough for me.

The Thing because the tone is similar and you could think that the ship might be an engineer one of some sort, if you excuse the bad CGI from the 2nd one.

Makes sense The Thing would be a result of black goo experiments.

I've sometimes wondered if the old British TV series Blake's 7 occurs in the far future of the AVP universe. It's certainly dark, bleak and brutal enough.

Was there ever a reason given to the name change of Weylan to Weyland. Only this week I was chatting with someone about it and I just figured in the chaos of making Aliens such things got changed by mistake? Or is there another reason does anyone know please?

"Weylan" in Alien could have been a mistake. Weyland sounds and looks right.

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 11, 2020, 07:31:54 PM
"Weylan" in Alien could have been a mistake. Weyland sounds and looks right.

Considering it's based on Leyland in the north of Britain, that makes sense.

Yes I don't think it was any conscious decision to change it.

Quote from: Stitch on Nov 11, 2020, 07:38:02 PM

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 11, 2020, 07:31:54 PM
"Weylan" in Alien could have been a mistake. Weyland sounds and looks right.

Considering it's based on Leyland in the north of Britain, that makes sense.

Indeed!

Or perhaps the Alien team did call it Weylan on purpose as to not be so on the nose but when it came to Aliens they thought oh like Leyland and added the "D"?

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 11, 2020, 07:31:54 PM
"Weylan" in Alien could have been a mistake. Weyland sounds and looks right.

Agreed

Saw this on here googling@ http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7619

".......One of the things I enjoyed most about Alien was its subtle satirical content. Science fiction films offer golden opportunities to throw in little scraps of information that suggest enormous changes in the world. There's a certain potency in those kinds of remarks. Weylan Yutani for instance is almost a joke, but not quite. I wanted to imply that poor old England is back on its feet and has united with the Japanese, who have taken over the building of spaceships the same way they have now with cars and supertankers. In coming up with a strange company name I thought of British Leyland and Toyota, but we couldn't use "Leyland-Toyota" in the film. Changing one letter gave me "Weylan," and "Yutani" was a Japanese neighbor of mine."

Ron Cobb, "The Authorized Portfolio of Crew Insignias from The United States Commercial Spaceship Nostromo Designs and Realizations" by John Mollo and Ron Cobb

Yeah, Weylan was very intentional. Considering Cobb also worked on Aliens I'm not sure why the D got added.

It sounds a bit like - why was 'SiL' changed to 'S1L'?

Most mysterious...

HA

Wasn't there issues with original props not being around when they wanted to make stuff for Aliens? Probably part of the early chaos or sorting stuff and they thought Leyland. So added the D.

---

Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
It sounds a bit like - why was 'SiL' changed to 'S1L'?

Most mysterious...

lol I was going to say. Sorry I didn't know there was a Sil already. S1L is from species. Is there anyway I can change it seeing as Sil was here first?

Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2020, 09:02:33 PM
It sounds a bit like - why was 'SiL' changed to 'S1L'?

Most mysterious...

I was thinking the same thing. :D I wouldn't bother with changing it though.

That's not gonna be confusing at all

Name changed lol  :D

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WeakWearyEuropeanfiresalamander-size_restricted.gif)

lol  :laugh:

Quote from: S1Lcies on Nov 11, 2020, 09:09:39 PM
Name changed lol  :D

I would have kept it just to be a nuisance. But S1Lcies will do  ;D

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 11, 2020, 09:22:30 PM

Quote from: S1Lcies on Nov 11, 2020, 09:09:39 PM
Name changed lol  :D

I would have kept it just to be a nuisance. But S1Lcies will do  ;D

lol no I can't I had to change it out of respect for Sil on here already.

I don't think SiL would give a f**k, really

Now we just need someone to register as 5M.

Quote from: Kradan on Nov 11, 2020, 09:31:13 PM
I don't think SiL would give a f**k, really

But still.  :laugh:

Quote from: Kradan on Nov 11, 2020, 09:31:13 PM
I don't think SiL would give a f**k, really

He is one of the most mature boys. So I agree.

So do I change it back to S1L?  ::) :o

Whatever your prefer! I think the added numbers, the profile picture, and the totally different writing styles are enough to separate us :laugh:

May I suggest Thunderdome?

Quote from: SiL on Nov 11, 2020, 10:01:20 PM
Whatever your prefer! I think the added numbers, the profile picture, and the totally different writing styles are enough to separate us :laugh:

Ok SiL thank you ;)

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 09:32:42 PM
Now we just need someone to register as 5M.

Not a patch on the first four.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
May I suggest Thunderdome?

(https://media2.giphy.com/media/s8RSgxQzbLpOE/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e4769482c5e77433bca0253265a179058891a3e8e09&rid=giphy.gif)

Only if you run Barter Town.

Quote from: SiL on Nov 11, 2020, 10:01:20 PM
Whatever your prefer! I think the added numbers, the profile picture, and the totally different writing styles are enough to separate us :laugh:

FIGHT CLUB.

I'm not saying that because you two should fight it out, I'm saying that because you're both the same person and don't realize it.

We also need a Xen0mrph.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
We also need a Xen0mrph.

Have we cross-connected with a mirror universe?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
We also need a Xen0mrph.

Xenomorph

Xen0mrph

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 11, 2020, 10:47:21 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 10:45:53 PM
We also need a Xen0mrph.

Have we cross-connected with a mirror universe?

I thought the same. I support L0cal Tr0ublƐl's proposal though.

Well mine is from Species. "Known as test subject S1L ("Sil")

Quote from: SiL on Sep 13, 2008, 03:58:57 AM
Didn't.

It's an abbreviation of "Silhouette". Didn't even know of Sil until I saw Species about two years later :P

What a twist!  :laugh:

Edit: Take note Riddles

I should of changed it to Wind0WS1L

Quote from: S1Lcies on Nov 11, 2020, 11:52:49 PM
I should of changed it to Wind0WS1L

Wouldn't that be S1LL?
Or at least some version of an operating system?
Or a Walsall postcode? (that's gonna confuse a lot of people, I think)

My headcanon try to bring in as much as possible without any unexplainable contradiction. As much as I love the movies, I wouldn't be as big a fan as I am today without the EU to keep bringing me new stuff. I love reading novels and comics, and playing video games. So yeah, the EU to me is very important.

I have a document in my PC where I keep a timeline of all the stories that I have read/played/watched.
Some contradictions I just ignore, others I try to work around (Weyland from AvP is the father of Peter Weyland in my headcanon for example) and if something is impossible to retcon... so only then it is not canon (Like the originial Aliens comics by Dark Horse that features Hicks and Newt). There's also Deadlist of the Species, that comic is so bad that I just can't consider it Canon. Crossovers with other characters (Batman, Superman, Tarzan, Judge Dredd, etc) also fall into the non-canon category, no matter how fun they are to read. Also, in my headcanon it's all one big connected universe (The Alien & Predator Universe).
About the Alien Director's cut... I'm still not sure which one to include.

Ah, and even a few lore from the Neca toys I consider to be canon (Like the excelent backstory for the Alpha Predator figure that nicely retcon the Hish as ancestors to the modern day Yautja).

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 11:48:10 PM

Quote from: SiL on Sep 13, 2008, 03:58:57 AM
Didn't.

It's an abbreviation of "Silhouette". Didn't even know of Sil until I saw Species about two years later :P

Learn something new everyday. I always thought it was Species. lol It's why I didn't blink when we had S1L join. It's not like we don't have 1 thousand Hicks.

Quote from: Stitch on Nov 12, 2020, 12:46:31 AM

Quote from: S1Lcies on Nov 11, 2020, 11:52:49 PM
I should of changed it to Wind0WS1L

Wouldn't that be S1LL?
Or at least some version of an operating system?
Or a Walsall postcode? (that's gonna confuse a lot of people, I think)

No because you still have to have just S1L to keep it relevant. So T0nS1L, T1nS1L or pushing it a bit with R0nS1L if you're into your alien wood stain, paint and preservative game. BennyS1L, S1l3ntS1L, BraS1L, K1LLS1L 1 & 2. S1LHicKz. W8lt3RS1L, L8ur1NS1L but it will probably all go down S1L at this rate.

S1L-E

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 12, 2020, 08:19:04 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 11, 2020, 11:48:10 PM

Quote from: SiL on Sep 13, 2008, 03:58:57 AM
Didn't.

It's an abbreviation of "Silhouette". Didn't even know of Sil until I saw Species about two years later :P

Learn something new everyday. I always thought it was Species. lol It's why I didn't blink when we had S1L join. It's not like we don't have 1 thousand Hicks.

Silhouette? Wow.

Sil. Giger. I never even considered another conclusion.

I was like ... 12 when I came up with the name. I don't think I knew of Species at the time.

I can't find the post, but I do recall you saying something to the effect of "I'm not Sil from Species!" as if it was something you've had to address many times before.

It was.

That just makes it all the more amusing.

Hicks and Newt survive in my headcanon. Like with William Gibsons script for Alien 3.

I don't think Fiendishly Inventive would approve.

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 12, 2020, 11:00:50 PM
Hicks and Newt survive in my headcanon. Like with William Gibsons script for Alien 3.

Mine too.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 12, 2020, 05:19:10 PM
I can't find the post, but I do recall you saying something to the effect of "I'm not Sil from Species!" as if it was something you've had to address many times before.

But what's the significance with the capitalized L?


(https://media.tenor.com/images/bce3324a8cd161b03ef3309696f1e98d/tenor.gif)

Quote from: Local Trouble on Feb 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
Hell, they could have given each cryotube its own personal escape pod and written the story so that only Ripley's crashed on Fury while the others didn't.

No Hicks.  No Newt.  No pointless deaths.  Ripley gets her solo adventure.  Mission accomplished.

As long as they don't die horribly, I can live with that.

I haven't played the infamous Colonial Marines yet, but I heard that in the game's story Hicks did survive somehow. Don't know about Newt.
But yeah, they deserve better than to die like that.

Poor Newt drowned and Hicks got a beam to the face. They deserved better.

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 12, 2020, 11:00:50 PM
Hicks and Newt survive in my headcanon. Like with William Gibsons script for Alien 3.

Not directed at you but more to the gibson script and those who think its a such missed chance of greatness: I dont see it, to me it was a silly story and WTF:
Alien eggs grows out of androids, so androids/robots somehow can become eggs for a biological animal ehm okay, found it extremly hard to believe and not looking silly that an alien egg grows out of bishop.Then xenos should in the future just capture as many androids as possible, hack them to pieces and each piece willl become a egg xD

Aliens with red eyes... I need to reread it but didnt understand why they got eyes but it was extremly silly and made the xeno way less scary, only good thing was that a normal xeno killed that abomination.

Aliens growing inside humans and once getting upset or if the xeno wants: breaks out of the human skin, cant see that turned into a good effect in a movie and how in hell shall a xenomorph fit inside a human frame especielly the head and where does this even make sense from what we saw in alien, aliens and the eu? Xenomorphs using human bodies and fits inside human bodies ehm thats too far stretched from how xenomorphs work.

Plus the story wasnt good, the best parts where the different nations and political stuff but it dont make a such good movie, can see why some fans like it as hicks gets more stuff to do and isnt killed and newt is sent away to her family relatives and survives and hopefully never get to face a xenomorph again.
Dislike the idea of newt hicks and ripley and saw some fans wanting amanda ripley to also join in on that family idea and they all go out fighting xenos left and right xD

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 13, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Poor Newt drowned and Hicks got a beam to the face. They deserved better.

Yep, that upset people.

The fans deserved better I say!

I agree that most of the other stuff that was in Gibson's script was silly. I do like the idea of Hicks living, and being the main character though.

Quote from: judge death on Nov 13, 2020, 02:48:02 AM
Aliens with red eyes... I need to reread it but didnt understand why they got eyes but it was extremly silly and made the xeno way less scary, only good thing was that a normal xeno killed that abomination.

That was an art choice by the artist. Not written in the script.

I got the comic-book adaptation of the Gibson script earlier this year. God it was dreadful.

Quote from: judge death on Nov 13, 2020, 02:48:02 AM
Aliens growing inside humans and once getting upset or if the xeno wants: breaks out of the human skin, cant see that turned into a good effect in a movie and how in hell shall a xenomorph fit inside a human frame especielly the head and where does this even make sense from what we saw in alien, aliens and the eu? Xenomorphs using human bodies and fits inside human bodies ehm thats too far stretched from how xenomorphs work.

Believe it or not. I've just yesterday re-listened podcast Hicks and Co. made about Gibson's first draft and they brought up the same thing

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 13, 2020, 08:37:53 AM

Quote from: judge death on Nov 13, 2020, 02:48:02 AM
Aliens with red eyes... I need to reread it but didnt understand why they got eyes but it was extremly silly and made the xeno way less scary, only good thing was that a normal xeno killed that abomination.

That was an art choice by the artist. Not written in the script.

I liked it actually. Not red eyes, but making Alien's skull visible. It was a nice neat way to distinguish New Beast from normal Alien without coming up with whole new design

Quote from: S1L on Nov 13, 2020, 09:39:33 AM
I got the comic-book adaptation of the Gibson script earlier this year. God it was dreadful.

It pairs well with the audio drama. I feel the comic has severe pacing issues, the audio drama helps even things out.

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 13, 2020, 03:28:07 PM

Quote from: S1L on Nov 13, 2020, 09:39:33 AM
I got the comic-book adaptation of the Gibson script earlier this year. God it was dreadful.

It pairs well with the audio drama. I feel the comic has severe pacing issues, the audio drama helps even things out.

I've not heard it but to be honest if the story is anything to go by from the comic. What we got was much better. Even with the cut  :D

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 13, 2020, 03:28:07 PM

Quote from: S1L on Nov 13, 2020, 09:39:33 AM
I got the comic-book adaptation of the Gibson script earlier this year. God it was dreadful.

It pairs well with the audio drama. I feel the comic has severe pacing issues, the audio drama helps even things out.

That's exactly what I found, as well.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 12, 2020, 08:19:04 AM
Learn something new everyday. I always thought it was Species. lol It's why I didn't blink when we had S1L join. It's not like we don't have 1 thousand Hicks.

Whatever happened to that "Corpral Hicks" imposter? That guy was something else...

Will they be doing other shelved versions like this? Like Vincent Ward's etc.

Also was there ever any other ideas for the second Alien movie instead of Aliens? I remember being on a forum years ago now and a guy (Who probably is on here. Was a cool dude who made mock props form Alien) was one of the original Alien fans. He said he walked out of Aliens along with other Alien fans at the time as it wasn't what they had in mind etc. I always wondered what it was before we got Aliens that people thought of in terms of a sequel?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 13, 2020, 03:00:52 AM

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 13, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Poor Newt drowned and Hicks got a beam to the face. They deserved better.

Yep, that upset people.

At least Newt was sleeping when it happened.

Quote from: Stompy the Perfect Xeno on Nov 13, 2020, 10:53:20 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 13, 2020, 03:00:52 AM

Quote from: Gr33n M4n on Nov 13, 2020, 01:00:17 AM
Poor Newt drowned and Hicks got a beam to the face. They deserved better.

Yep, that upset people.

At least Newt was sleeping when it happened.

*cough*

(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-fLM_mlDdI-4%2FT2NVWVqrP4I%2FAAAAAAAAAag%2F90gBh_e6LaE%2Fs400%2Ffreecomhdd8.png&hash=86c6a7fd4e13bbcd472ff2a739ddf13a9b632c23)

Quote from: Huggs on Nov 14, 2020, 12:13:37 AM*cough*

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fLM_mlDdI-4/T2NVWVqrP4I/AAAAAAAAAag/90gBh_e6LaE/s400/freecomhdd8.png

That's just how she looks when she's sleeping.

She has scary dreams.

Whoa hey but Ripley said she could have good dreams.

Damn, poor Newt.  :-[

You can buy a drowned Newt movie prop from the auction Page 2 of the cat: :-[ https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/244/
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/newt-a3-comic.jpg)

(https://i.gifer.com/DeBp.gif)
;D



When FOX told Aliens Colonial Marines to be canon, I was sure they really don't care at all. I mean, Hicks is dead. Dead.
I stick to my personal canon (in my sig) and stay happy with this franchise.

What truly canon is, I don't know anymore. It can't be everything, that's for sure.  ;)

Quote from: Stompy the Perfect Xeno on Nov 14, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
https://i.gifer.com/DeBp.gif
I stick to my personal canon (in my sig) and stay happy with this franchise.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/d7/19/7ed71900f8ce713e18461d8612c4ae84.gif)

Quote from: Stompy the Perfect Xeno on Nov 14, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
I stick to my personal canon (in my sig) and stay happy with this franchise.

Wisdom.

Quote from: Stompy the Perfect Xeno on Nov 14, 2020, 09:00:45 PM
What truly canon is, I don't know anymore. It can't be everything, that's for sure.  ;)

Uh-oh...

Canon wars can never truly be over.

Caste/cowl

It was my understanding that cowl already won.

A misconception

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 14, 2020, 11:47:58 PM
A misconception

Unless you're talking about Batman'a cowl...

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 14, 2020, 11:47:58 PM
A misconception

Does that mean the war is still raging?

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4175/33733046713_9694753578_o.gif)

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 14, 2020, 11:58:42 PM

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 14, 2020, 11:47:58 PM
A misconception

Does that mean the war is still raging?

No, the other side won ;)

Quote from: 426Buddy on Nov 14, 2020, 10:30:43 PM
Canon wars can never truly be over.

Caste/cowl

First time I've seen these fightin' words in a while, and I was actually explaining to a youngster just the other day about the Caste vs Cowl and DNA Reflex wars. The shrapnel wounds still hurt on a cold day.

Who won?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 15, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Who won?

Whoever won, we lost

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 15, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Who won?

Daemos, probably.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 15, 2020, 09:33:37 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 15, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Who won?

Daemos, probably.

Was Daemos caste or cowl?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 16, 2020, 12:58:37 AM

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 15, 2020, 09:33:37 PM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 15, 2020, 08:28:21 PM
Who won?

Daemos, probably.

Was Daemos caste or cowl?

Cowl; he chose... poorly

But I hear tell he won.  :-\

He was a passionate lad

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 16, 2020, 01:01:08 AM
But I hear tell he won.  :-\

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 14, 2020, 11:47:58 PM
A misconception

I feel like I missed out on so much history.

(https://i.imgur.com/Xc5CmY3.gif)

Quote from: The Eighth Passenger on Nov 13, 2020, 07:34:12 PM

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 12, 2020, 08:19:04 AM
Learn something new everyday. I always thought it was Species. lol It's why I didn't blink when we had S1L join. It's not like we don't have 1 thousand Hicks.

Whatever happened to that "Corpral Hicks" imposter? That guy was something else...

:laugh: He self-corrected after a period of isolation.

---

Quote from: S1L on Nov 13, 2020, 07:34:56 PM
Will they be doing other shelved versions like this? Like Vincent Ward's etc.

We've no idea at this point.  :-\ It seemed Dark Horse were quite happy to continue, but we've no indication of what Marvel will do yet. I don't expect any word from them until the end of the year, once Dark Horse's license is up either.

QuoteAlso was there ever any other ideas for the second Alien movie instead of Aliens? I remember being on a forum years ago now and a guy (Who probably is on here. Was a cool dude who made mock props form Alien) was one of the original Alien fans. He said he walked out of Aliens along with other Alien fans at the time as it wasn't what they had in mind etc. I always wondered what it was before we got Aliens that people thought of in terms of a sequel?

Ask and ye shall receive!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XqRwQu57J0!

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 16, 2020, 01:25:34 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 16, 2020, 01:01:08 AM
But I hear tell he won.  :-\

Quote from: Xenomrph on Nov 14, 2020, 11:47:58 PM
A misconception

He may (or may not) have lost the forum wars, but a man who looks that much like Prince can only win IRL

---

Quote from: 426Buddy on Nov 16, 2020, 01:14:13 AM
He was a passionate lad

Putting it mildly :D

What is сanon? Some kind of church teaching?

A films are artistic works. Sometimes they have a continuation, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the story is rewritten and changed from scratch, sometimes - from a certain moment. You can look at the whole work, and sometimes only at a part. You can admire the whole work, and sometimes only part. Sometimes you need to delete and rewrite the unlucky and ugly piece of work.

Enjoy, watch and analyze each film individually or in combination with others. But do not think that the story you are watching is as dead as the unnatural dogmas. And if someone announces a reboot or a retcon, we must accept it as another piece of art. Instead of splashing saliva and yelling in a fit of rage: "NOOOO, THIS IS A DANGER FOR CANON! THIS IS HERESY! WE MUST PROTECT CANON! THE STORY SHOULD NOT BE REWRITED!".

But I understand why people love and defend the canon - it allows the brain to be lazy and proud at the same time. People defend the canon as an unchanging set of rules and guidelines, not realizing that at the will of the studio, everything can change easily and quickly.

So, fk the canon.

And, if canon is a kind of church teaching, then headcanon is is a sect.

So, fk the headcanon too.

'Enjoy, watch and analyse but don't you dare enjoy or analyse anything pertaining to canon'.

I disagree with you. Too harsh point of view.

Canon is like science. It is subject to changes and updates. It is not a dogma at all.

If this were the case, people would not have raised the stink due to possible retcones.

But every time there is a screech: "No, no, they want to erase my Alien 3, reeeeee."

Quote from: Drukathi on Nov 17, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
If this were the case, people would not have raised the stink due to possible retcones.

But every time there is a screech: "No, no, they want to erase my Alien 3, reeeeee."

He's pointing out that a lot of people have a fundamental misconception of what canon is and what it means. ;)

Quote from: Drukathi on Nov 17, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
If this were the case, people would not have raised the stink due to possible retcones.

But every time there is a screech: "No, no, they want to erase my Alien 3, reeeeee."

:D

Quote from: Drukathi on Nov 17, 2020, 02:57:45 PM
If this were the case, people would not have raised the stink due to possible retcones.

But every time there is a screech: "No, no, they want to erase my Alien 3, reeeeee."

But Alien 3 is the best and deserves to be at the head of the canon

Somebody give this man a beer

A weak pissy Seppo beer.

How about you just

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/1241c4f3e494ab11748ea15649a0eb3b/tenor.gif?itemid=9964714)

Quote from: Kradan on Nov 18, 2020, 02:08:10 PM
How about you just

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1241c4f3e494ab11748ea15649a0eb3b/tenor.gif?itemid=9964714

A canon David? Sounds great to me! One more movie with him, please!

I don't worry about canon. I revel in the NES games, Kenner figures, and the 5 alternate fates (at least) of Corporal Hicks.
It irks me that people shove Blade Runner in there though. How is that more canon than AvP? And I love Blade Runner!

Tres irritating.

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 18, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
It irks me that people shove Blade Runner in there though. How is that more canon than AvP? And I love Blade Runner!

Quote from: The Old One on Feb 08, 2019, 11:20:28 PM
There's a lot more than that, in fact- more of a connection than A + P ever had.

Spoiler

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:24:08 AM

Quote from: Huggs on Oct 08, 2018, 01:05:52 AM

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Ridley Scott is magnificent with a fantastic writer, the new film requires a writer of Ridley Scott's visual calibre.

Ridley and Villeneuve merging everything into a Blade Runner/Alien crossover is what I personally would want.
To see David walking the rainy city streets of futuristic L.A., vial of hell in hand. So put me down for that.

f**k yes!

I always thought of Blade Runner as a historical background to Alien.
With the Replicants after a rebellion, rewarded recognition of their status as "alive" or human.

Indirectly this would be responsible, in combination with entrepreneur Peter Weyland's death,
for the Weyland Corporation backtracking on "humanisation" of androids- at least in public view.

David and subsequently the Alien, are what happen when an AI no longer is tied to that "leash" of mankind.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 17, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/b715dc061e869157fa5c23e25fc00a6a/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o1_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/bf16b750535791d43c21375725361588/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o2_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/236f45b83360c075090d319bf084342b/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o3_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4ecc991640e6ff9c5aacaa34c24f55b8/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o4_1280.jpg)

Thematics, subject material, depictions of subject material, design language. Retro Futurism. Utilitarian uselessness. Dreams. Dialogue.

Ridley Scott?

Quote from: The Old One on Nov 02, 2018, 03:50:25 AM
Original Alien aesthetic now?
It would be bloody fantastic to see IMO.
People loved it in Isolation, and even items were described as chunky and retro in TCF.
The retrofuturism in general reminds people of Alien and Blade Runner.

[close]

TLDR; A+B > A+P.
IMO obviously.

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 18, 2020, 10:14:28 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 18, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
It irks me that people shove Blade Runner in there though. How is that more canon than AvP? And I love Blade Runner!

Quote from: The Old One on Feb 08, 2019, 11:20:28 PM
There's a lot more than that, in fact- more of a connection than A + P ever had.

Spoiler

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:24:08 AM

Quote from: Huggs on Oct 08, 2018, 01:05:52 AM

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Ridley Scott is magnificent with a fantastic writer, the new film requires a writer of Ridley Scott's visual calibre.

Ridley and Villeneuve merging everything into a Blade Runner/Alien crossover is what I personally would want.
To see David walking the rainy city streets of futuristic L.A., vial of hell in hand. So put me down for that.

f**k yes!

I always thought of Blade Runner as a historical background to Alien.
With the Replicants after a rebellion, rewarded recognition of their status as "alive" or human.

Indirectly this would be responsible, in combination with entrepreneur Peter Weyland's death,
for the Weyland Corporation backtracking on "humanisation" of androids- at least in public view.

David and subsequently the Alien, are what happen when an AI no longer is tied to that "leash" of mankind.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 17, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/b715dc061e869157fa5c23e25fc00a6a/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o1_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/bf16b750535791d43c21375725361588/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o2_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/236f45b83360c075090d319bf084342b/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o3_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4ecc991640e6ff9c5aacaa34c24f55b8/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o4_1280.jpg)

Thematics, subject material, depictions of subject material, design language. Retro Futurism. Utilitarian uselessness. Dreams. Dialogue.

Ridley Scott?

Quote from: The Old One on Nov 02, 2018, 03:50:25 AM
Original Alien aesthetic now?
It would be bloody fantastic to see IMO.
People loved it in Isolation, and even items were described as chunky and retro in TCF.
The retrofuturism in general reminds people of Alien and Blade Runner.

[close]

TLDR; A+B > A+P.
IMO obviously.

Did you have to search for that or are you logging all her posts in a database for future reference?

He logs everyone's posts.

Trouble, give me my "no memory of this memory" post please.

He can remember it for you - wholesale.

Do I still have to pay GST on that?

Is it time Local changed to a Doug Quaid avatar?

Quote from: Stitch on Nov 20, 2020, 02:17:22 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 18, 2020, 10:14:28 PM

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 18, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
It irks me that people shove Blade Runner in there though. How is that more canon than AvP? And I love Blade Runner!

Quote from: The Old One on Feb 08, 2019, 11:20:28 PM
There's a lot more than that, in fact- more of a connection than A + P ever had.

Spoiler

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:24:08 AM

Quote from: Huggs on Oct 08, 2018, 01:05:52 AM

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 08, 2018, 01:00:40 AM
Ridley Scott is magnificent with a fantastic writer, the new film requires a writer of Ridley Scott's visual calibre.

Ridley and Villeneuve merging everything into a Blade Runner/Alien crossover is what I personally would want.
To see David walking the rainy city streets of futuristic L.A., vial of hell in hand. So put me down for that.

f**k yes!

I always thought of Blade Runner as a historical background to Alien.
With the Replicants after a rebellion, rewarded recognition of their status as "alive" or human.

Indirectly this would be responsible, in combination with entrepreneur Peter Weyland's death,
for the Weyland Corporation backtracking on "humanisation" of androids- at least in public view.

David and subsequently the Alien, are what happen when an AI no longer is tied to that "leash" of mankind.

Quote from: The Old One on Oct 17, 2018, 01:28:10 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/b715dc061e869157fa5c23e25fc00a6a/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o1_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/bf16b750535791d43c21375725361588/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o2_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/236f45b83360c075090d319bf084342b/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o3_1280.jpg)

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4ecc991640e6ff9c5aacaa34c24f55b8/tumblr_ox4goiemDG1t12a90o4_1280.jpg)

Thematics, subject material, depictions of subject material, design language. Retro Futurism. Utilitarian uselessness. Dreams. Dialogue.

Ridley Scott?

Quote from: The Old One on Nov 02, 2018, 03:50:25 AM
Original Alien aesthetic now?
It would be bloody fantastic to see IMO.
People loved it in Isolation, and even items were described as chunky and retro in TCF.
The retrofuturism in general reminds people of Alien and Blade Runner.

[close]

TLDR; A+B > A+P.
IMO obviously.

Did you have to search for that or are you logging all her posts in a database for future reference?

Search.  As for the database, I'm still collating.

Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Nov 20, 2020, 08:52:21 AM
He logs everyone's posts.

Trouble, give me my "no memory of this memory" post please.

That's a bit hard for a Nexus 5, so allow me:  :laugh:

(https://imgur.com/rwK1ZOL.jpg)

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg2346146#msg2346146 (https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg2346146#msg2346146)

 :laugh: haha thank you!

Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 18, 2020, 08:37:26 PM
I don't worry about canon. I revel in the NES games, Kenner figures, and the 5 alternate fates (at least) of Corporal Hicks.
It irks me that people shove Blade Runner in there though. How is that more canon than AvP? And I love Blade Runner!

Its not that Blade Runner is litterly canon, its that things from it do happen, though probably differently.  Think of it like this, if you saw MK11 story mode, its all about the multiverse, and in those infinite universes, lots of Raiden, he does similar things in some, and others he is radically different, hell theirs a couple universes where Raiden looks and sounds like the Highlander.

Which things?

Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2020, 01:18:07 AM
Which things?

For sure that the company from Blade Runner exists, the guy from the series that made the company exists, he made replicants.  Thats all we know.

How do we know these things?

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 30, 2020, 01:50:21 AM
How do we know these things?

because the 3d version of Prometheus disc has those things mentioned, also Peter Weyland hates the guy that made Replicants and he thinks they are an abomination compared to androids.

Huh.

Time for a new canon war?

I'm always ready for it.

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Nov 30, 2020, 02:18:28 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 30, 2020, 01:50:21 AM
How do we know these things?

because the 3d version of Prometheus disc has those things mentioned, also Peter Weyland hates the guy that made Replicants and he thinks they are an abomination compared to androids.

That was done for fun for the disc, not an official thing.

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Nov 30, 2020, 01:48:58 AM

Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2020, 01:18:07 AM
Which things?

For sure that the company from Blade Runner exists, the guy from the series that made the company exists, he made replicants.  Thats all we know.

No.

No we do not. (https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/prometheus-bluray-producer-downplays-blade-runner-connection.html)

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Nov 30, 2020, 02:20:31 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 30, 2020, 01:57:51 AM

Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2018, 08:14:36 PM
Fox is never going to detail what's canon and what's not.

But A:CM is not.

Except the interviews about ACM confirmed it is, let alone apparently some rpg writer leaking internal documents on what is, ACM is not on that list of things non-canon.

Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2020, 02:49:37 AM

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Nov 30, 2020, 01:48:58 AM

Quote from: SM on Nov 30, 2020, 01:18:07 AM
Which things?

For sure that the company from Blade Runner exists, the guy from the series that made the company exists, he made replicants.  Thats all we know.

No.

No we do not. (https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/prometheus-bluray-producer-downplays-blade-runner-connection.html)

Yes we do, I red it on the disc, its official, just like anything in the novels, comics, games, and specific merch that is labeled as Canon like the King Alien statue.

---

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 30, 2020, 02:57:56 AM

Quote from: Darth Rinzler on Nov 30, 2020, 02:20:31 AM

Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 30, 2020, 01:57:51 AM

Quote from: SM on Aug 13, 2018, 08:14:36 PM
Fox is never going to detail what's canon and what's not.

But A:CM is not.

Except the interviews about ACM confirmed it is, let alone apparently some rpg writer leaking internal documents on what is, ACM is not on that list of things non-canon.

The Interviews with the people that made ACM and its relation to canon say otherwise.   ACM is a direct sequel to the movies.

Not today.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/PisLH7dWInIs0/giphy.gif)

Canon is such bullshit

But no Blade Runner and no A:CM in my canon

I likes what I likes and I don't likes most of it.

I find what Gaska said about the RPG to be quite fair and a good compromise for everyone. Bar room canon and what ifs gives out a lot of flexibility to shape what is canon and what is not.

Not sure what AVP I would consider a personal canon though, I mean some of the comics were great and the games obviously. Too many to choose from.  :laugh:

Well Gaska's' guidelines are dictated by license and the abrupt lines you have to draw when you're clearly defining a corporation's individual license revenue streams. That's why you get cherry picking from Fire and Stone for instance.

Quote from: Kelgaard on May 09, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESNkWFNXUAETIg3?format=jpg&name=large)

The awful Isolation novel, Instead of the Creative Assembly masterpiece, just why? Oh and AVP 2010's continuity and canon directly links it to AVP and AVPR, in addition to Aliens and Alien³ rather bluntly. Even if Neill Blomkamp's Alien V ever did come out, that it did not, it can't co-exist with the former.

I would ignore Resurrection, although there are some things I like in it. But Alien 3's ending is perfect for me, so I could leave it at that.

Quote from: BigDaddyJohn on Apr 12, 2021, 02:41:53 PM
I would ignore Resurrection, although there are some things I like in it. But Alien 3's ending is perfect for me, so I could leave it at that.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/d20bbc70a7ed15d3a2ae0dd93236d17c/tenor.gif?itemid=6021624)

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 12, 2021, 12:59:04 AM
Even if Neill Blomkamp's Alien V ever did come out, that it did not, it can't co-exist with the former.

Canon =/= continuity. Also, much like official canon, headcanon need not be consistent or logical.

Hence me saying canon and continuity.

(https://s4.gifyu.com/images/55q16z.gif)

Quote from: Xenomrph on Apr 14, 2021, 11:56:43 PM

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 12, 2021, 12:59:04 AM
Even if Neill Blomkamp's Alien V ever did come out, that it did not, it can't co-exist with the former.

Canon =/= continuity. Also, much like official canon, headcanon need not be consistent or logical.

Head Canon = Continuity?

Obviously everything "can fit" if you simply ignore the parts that do not in fact fit, but since I never will have an interest in discussing such a view point, my pointing out of certain stories not being able to co-exist within the one continuity or canon (depending upon how liberally you use the term) will continue.

Ignoring official canon in favor of EU & soft canon is  cherry picking canon.

I do cherry pick, but I like to do it ontop of official canon and continuity, so I'm still talking from the baseline everyone else's got.

My canon goes like this...

Set in stone:
- ALIEN
- ALIENS
- ALIEN 3
- ALIEN: RESURRECTION

Six Degrees of Separation:
- PROMETHEUS
- ALIEN: COVENANT
- ALIEN: ISOLATION

I doubt anyone will begrudge you that view.

Set Deadliest of the Species in STONE MUTHAf**kAH!!!  >:(

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/69044596/noooooo.jpg)

Primary Canon:

Prometheus
Alien: Covenant
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Alien: Resurrection

Secondary Canon:

Alien: Isolation
Alien: The Cold Forge
Alien: Into Charybdis
Aliens: Phalanx

I like to pretend Colonial Marines is the cornerstone of the franchise.

What a nightmarish reality you inhabit.

(https://64.media.tumblr.com/04caddada4819610e3aa5ffbb3969a25/tumblr_nc0hmrFAU11tuzl74o1_500.gifv)

Quote from: razeak on Apr 15, 2021, 03:42:44 PM
I like to pretend Colonial Marines is the cornerstone of the franchise.

Because it made Alien 3 a better film?

Yes I can argue it did, by being so awful, it makes absolutely anything better by comparison alone.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Apr 15, 2021, 12:22:46 AM
Ignoring official canon in favor of EU & soft canon is  cherry picking canon.

That's what headcanon is, yes.

My canon

Set in stone:
Alien
Aliens
Alien 3
Predator
Predator 2
Predators

Might join set in stone canon if the next entry fixes them:
Prometheus
Alien: Covenant

Live action comic book to watch for fun:
Alien Resurrection
The Predator

Doesn't exist:
AvP
AvP:R

Okay have time, my own canon as I see alien franchise or has since 2003 with updates when new material is released, and as its 04.01 in the morning I apologize for my bad writing.

-Dark horse explanation of xenomorph background: they were part of a ecosystem on one planet where they were one of the top predators but still having rivalry which keept them at bay, until the space jockeys found their planet and captured some of them and found them to be perfect for making into weapons and its here the black goo was created from xenomorph dna. The space jockeys itself are shown as none humanoids but are rather grown into the tasks they are made for. Anchorpointessays.com debated that the eggs carried onboard the derelight ship was their weapon in a civil war of their species. Space jockeys creates the space enginners who try to look like them in their honor. But the space jockeys got wiped out by the xenomorphs and one crashlands on LV-426. The space engineers on their planet start to use the black goo to recreate their works and starts to seed planets and also recreate the xenomorphs as the murals in prometheus shown.
Yet again infestations of the black goo cause several of their labs to be overrun but they are a space traveling civilistation but like the space jockeys a rare and dying species.

-The events of prometheus happens, pathogen is discovered as a weapon and a mutagen that mutates whatever it gets in contact with besides already infected creatures. Deacon is born but ends up becoming a mountain after eating more pathogen. Deacon is first sign of the pathogen trying to become xenomorph like creature. We also see the space engineers worshipping the xenomorph, having altars for it and unknown crystals together with jars of black goo.

-David finds one of the space engineers species that was created and wipes them and the planet out and shawn crashes the ship when she realise what he has done, and David kills her and uses her body to experiment on together with the pathogen and the mutating creatures found on the planet. The pathogen is spread like nuclear fallout in rain and wind and overruns the planet. David find lots of the space engineers designs and work and also the pathogen is like xenomorphs, replicating and trying to become like a xenomorph again. David manages with the last creatures and last pathogen to make the preatorian/protomorph alien eggs which differs from the original ones and arent the same but close to the xenomorph.

-Covenant happens and David get to test his creature and also finds the neomorphs and try to learn about them too but the covenant crew kills them and we find out they dont have acid for blood, nor did the other creatures born from the pathogen, the protomorph unlike the xenomorph grows to adult form in 20 minutes time and is born fully formed and transparent, their facehugger is bigger than normal facehuggers and dont need to stay attached to the host, it will implant its embryo within seconds. Protomorph lack the design of the original and their harder exosuit skeleton, and is shown to be more dumb and more aggressive than the original alien and they are taken out by 2 humans. David taking control of the colony ship and most likely starts experimenting on the colonists and create hsi own planet to control with his own strain of xenomorph.

-Alien: The distress signal is discovered on LV-426 by a vessel passing close to the planet and WY get report of it and some insiders with access to knowledge of prometheus expedeition throws together a plan to get their hands on what is likely what prometheus was after, sends ASch to infiltrate nostromo and have it rerouted. Finding the derelight ship and the eggs of the original aliens and find out they still live after long time, the facehugger needs ca 8-12 hours time to implant its embryo inside of kane, and after release it takes aprox 2-4 hours before the chestburster breaks out(taken from anchorpointessays.com) state of chestburster depends on individual gestation times and this one is mostly snake shaped but signs of arms. The creature takes 2-4 hours to grow to adult size and starts taking out the crew who was seen as a threat to it, and also for starting a colony/nest onboard. It captures Dallas and have him coccooned in its nest with brett who is morphing into an egg which contains a queen facehugger. Ripley starts the self destruct and finds the nest and destroys it with dallas. The xenomorph is later shot out of the airlock and the engine of the shuttle cant burn or kill it but enough to send it out into space, most likely hibernating as the xenomorph dont need air to live.
We also see when parker tries to attack it from behind, the xenomorphs head contains advanced sensors and detects him as he do and wipes him with its tail, my own theory is that they have a 360 view of field.

-Alien isolation: Ripleys daughter visits sevastopol and finds it in distress and severe alien ifnestation, finds out another crew got to LV-426 and got infected and went to sevastopol and starting this infestation, they also turned off the distress signal. Ripley survives the ordeal and is picked up by a ship.

-Aliens: Ripley is found and is sent back to gateway station where its unheard of for someone to survive a such long cryosleep, and is called for a hearing where no one beleives her story and starts working as a dock worker, while burke investigate this and finds info on those insiders was into and sends an order to investigate ripleys claim. Jordan familfy finds the derelight which is damaged after volcano and earthquakes hitting it and find the eggs which is still alive and soon infects the dad of the family, which ends up with the colony being overrun, 3 survivors escapes the planet and they seek ways to get revenge on weyland yutani. Ripley gets visit from burke that they lost contact with the colony and she accept to return there. The marines find that the aliens built a hive in the atmosphere processor, due to the xenomorphs keepign memories of their hosts and built their hive in there both for its heat but also for the danger that if someone shots weapons it can cause the reactor to go critical. The hive is a living being of itself that feeds/nurture the xenomorphs as it slowly breaks down metal. The xenomorphs can communicate through the hive through the hive resin. Also the resin leaves spores that the xenomorph can track, amking it easy to find intruders. We also find the xenomorph to be less aggressive and leaves the marines in peace until they kill their newborn chestburster. Xenomrohs cant be seen in infra red and soon takes out most of the marines. The xenomorphs being older have a more armoured head and blades on their arms but else looking just like big chap. Also we see the xenomorphs sacrificing itself to save the hive when one kills the pilot of the lander. The atmosphere processor is damaged and will blow and take out the colony in the blast and 40 km around it. The xenomorphs cut off the power showing their inteligense and also likely that the xeno born from the colonists had memory of how the generator works. The marines escapes and get to the drop ship but ripley goes in for newt and finds the queen. The queen lays an egg every third hour (according to anchorpointessays.com) and the queen shown to be even more inteligent and can understand ripley and calls off its guards when ripley threatens her eggs. The eggs however arent smart and cant be controlled but opens up when they discover a suitable host. The queen can detach from its eggsack and also regrow it, she follows ripley and shows she can operate a elevator and climbs onboard the lander. In combat we see the queen being quite slow and its walking style seem to indicate its not built for walking but be immobile and egglaying. The queen is thrown out of the airlock and is sucked down to the planet and most likely burnt up when entering lv-426s atmosphere. We also learn that its not possible to remove the facehugger from a host without the host dying, they did this before the facehugger had managed to lay its embryo inside the host, showing that they need several hours to do its job, same facehugegr was later released by burke to infect ripley or newt but the plan failed.
In the hive we learn the eggs grow rotes that gives the eggs nurturment and most likely can absorb food from metal or materials its connected to. We also learn and mostly from earth war comics that the xenomorphs are like coachroaches and can survive radiation. The derelight might been destroyed in the blast but mountain ranges could have sheilded it from the blast, it remains unknown if its there or not anymore.
Although the queen had laid a emergency egg onboard the lander.

-Alien 3: the emergency egg hatches and the facehugger seeks a victim and finds ripley and lays its queen embryo in her, this causing a fire that starts a evac and the eve shuttle crashlands on the planet, due to the fire damage it dont land but crash into the sea, its computers guiding it into the sea. the facehugger on ripley feeds ripley air and makes sure she survives. The facehugger later finds a dog and infects it with the second embryo it carries which will be the guard to the gestating queen.
The dog runner/guard xeno gestates just as slow as the other xenos and not until almost a day after its birth is it moving around and taking its first victims, we also learn the xenos take traits from its hosts and creature they gestate from. While the queen in ripley took almosta  week or 4 days aprox to gestate but was killed when ripley threw herself down into the furnace. We also get shown that the xenomorph can survive extreme temperatures but its exoskeleton can crack and explode by rapid temperature changes. They can also smell or detect if someone carries a chestburster or a queen one, and facehuggers dont hatches onto a already infected host. The queens dont take traits from their hosts but are born pure xenomorph, making it possible for the species to keep their purity in check, making queens and their daughters closer related than to their offsrpings that takes dna/traits from hosts. We also find out that the xenomorphs can spit acid at close range that contains poison to paralyse potential hosts.

-Aliens thanatos encounter

-Aliens dead orbit

-dust to dust

- Aliens labyrinth we get to see xenomorphs able to reproduce ina  new way, its yet unknown how they do it, best theory is they force several facehuggers to do their job on any species females but its a last ditch resort.

-Alien rpg book and alien 3 ideas: UPP and all factions and space goverments.

-more than human: we see xenomorphs of the body guard type that only is around the queen mother, which would explain why the people on the planet is possessed and is hostile and is going to the xenomoprh hive, and this part to me makes earth wars lore of the queen mother to occur here too. queen mother have the ability to make weak minded humans to obey the xenomorphs and can control several xenomorph hives across the universe.

-Alien resurrection: ixenomorphs encounters have pretty much disappeared and to get their hands on it after WY collapses, they clone ripley and manages to clone her somewhat successfully, the xenomorphs onboard are abominations and have a more fleshy look, almost similair to davids protomorph, and arent as dangerous as the original aliens as they kill their own instead of escaping by spitting acid, showing human thinking when they instead kill one of their owns, they after that fails to cause major loss to the few people left onboard, more xenos than humans die but they display xenomorphs ability to understand their enviroment and use it to their advantage. We also see first step of the adult xenomorph is to have the smooth dome head, which grows to the armoured/ridged one in aliens as they age when born from a human host and also taking as long as the original alien to gestate, and the facehuggers confirming they need to attach to a host for long time to put in an embryo as one that hatches onto ripley wasnt able to while the protomorphs didnt need that and some other examples in the lore that makes them uncanon in my head.
Xenomorphs with their heads can communicate with eachothers by hive mind, how it works are just theories. Due to the human dna and thinking they arent as protective of their eggs or queen as they use most of their eggs, if not all in an trap which failed, as the queen wasnt egg laying anymore their hive is doomed. The queen how she most likely was able to escape and get to the waste tank: she most likely had stopped egglaying as the novel says and had the newborn growing inside of her, and had detached from her eggsack, then the xenos escaped and she was able to move to the wastetank and set up her hive and almost directly grew the womb part, she then ordered her drones to bring ripley to her as she knew something is wrong but couldnt tell what and ripley maybe can help, hence they try to kill her first but now brings her to them. The enwborn when mature enough burst out of the womb like a chestburster, and like mammals as its an obimation between xenomroph and humans, sees ripley first and inprints on her, making it think ripley is the mother. Auriga crashes and kills the 1-3 xenomorphs left alive.

-sea of sorrow

Okay now im way too tired to think properly but might add more details of data from various alien lore but I think I got the most of it, skipping the too obvious stuff but gladly answer questions. But then again this is my headcanon and how I try to see everything fit from all alien material, comics, games, community ideas, novels etc.
Best canon in my opinion else is: all alien material is as valid as anything else and there is no canon but what one like in the franchise as canon is subject to change each time a new movie or comic etc comes out and we still have the old material left to enjoy and themes and ideas in the past disappears with new, I would see all release as just as valid.

Lots more's canon than what applies to the current continuity's the way I see it personally.

Quote from: irn on Apr 17, 2021, 08:02:44 AM
Doesn't exist:
AvP
AvP:R

:D

AVP & AVPR exist! in their own schrödinger way.  :)

There is nothing to not allow fans to see them as canon, know many predator fans who do :P
In their own timeline I dont see why not, and when they were madethey were etc so enjoy them if you like them :D

Canon just not in Alien's continuity.

As long as we don't touch a single hair of The Predator we'll get along just fine  ;D

I can agree to that lol

At least we can all admit that the revelation from Covenant that is David engineered the early design of the xenomorph Will be written out of any fan canon......I expect.


Personally, that whole thing with David and ESPECIALLY the black goo not only destroys the mysterious origins of the xenomorph, it feels like it's a massive slap in the face to origins spawned from Giger's design, even with the deleted scene in Alien with Dallas and the egg morphing thrown into the mix.


I would've preferred the early comic origins involving Xeno Prime, the queen mother, K-series, etc, not Ridley's android fantasy.

Xenomorph Prime ugh yeah just f**king kill me.

Quote from: RabidNinja on Aug 09, 2021, 11:48:06 PM
At least we can all admit that the revelation from Covenant that is David engineered the early design of the xenomorph Will be written out of any fan canon......I expect.


Personally, that whole thing with David and ESPECIALLY the black goo not only destroys the mysterious origins of the xenomorph, it feels like it's a massive slap in the face to origins spawned from Giger's design, even with the deleted scene in Alien with Dallas and the egg morphing thrown into the mix.


I would've preferred the early comic origins involving Xeno Prime, the queen mother, K-series, etc, not Ridley's android fantasy.

Well the rpg pretty much made queen mother official, and I love that and the xenos actually being part of a alien ecosystem long ago far away.

That's quite an exaggeration, suggested it might exist hypothetically, nothing more.

In my defense, just because it exists doesn't mean I have to like it. I'm all for the idea of the xeno race being that of a cosmic horror and a genuine natural threat to the chain of existence, as opposed to the running theme of an an out of control god complex.

Well it was a nice node at least to one of the epic alien stories :D

All of my yes.

Alien to life itself.

Quote from: Trash Queen on Aug 10, 2021, 02:18:56 AM
Xenomorph Prime ugh yeah just f**king kill me.

Why not ?

The name especially, but everything about it, is shit.

Mine is:

Blade Runner
Blade Runner Blackout
2036: Nexus Dawn
2048: Nowhere to Run
Blade Runner 2049
The Peter Weyland Files
Prometheus
Meet Walter
Phobos
Last Supper
Alien Covenant
Advent
Last Signs of Life
Alien
Alien Isolation (maybe?)
Aliens
Alien 3

The five Predator solos are in their own timeline for me.

That's quite the list, some good ones on there. I consider Blade Runner and Outland honorable mentions for sure.  For me it's gotta be

Alien
Aliens
Prometheus

&
Predator
Predator 2
Predators

That's a rap for me, you can keep the rest. I hardly watch em if at all. There is something I enjoy in all the films but its  a question of standards for me. Admittedly Prometheus and Predators push it a little but I find them enjoyable overall. Just my opinion.

A L I E N

Main Canon:
ALIEN (including Nest/Egg-Morphing scene)
ALIENS (Original Cut but with extended tribunal scene and Sulaco of awakening scene)
ALIEN 3 (Assembly Cut but with a dog for host instead of an ox)

Secondary Canon:
PROMETHEUS
ALIEN: COVENANT
ALIENS (Director's Cut)
ALIEN 3 (Theatrical Cut)
ALIEN: RESURRECTION

Potential Canon:
ALIEN: ISOLATION
PROM EXTRA MATERIAL (shorts, extra/extended scenes & cuts)
A:C EXTRA MATERIAL (shorts/promos, extra/extended scenes & cuts)
ALIEN FILM NOVELIZATIONS

...

P R E D A T O R

Main Cannon:
PREDATOR
PREDATOR 2

Secondary Canon:
THE PREDATOR
PREDATORS

Potential Canon:
? (don't know enough about Predator media to categorize it)

...

A V P

Main Canon:
AVP
AVP: REQUIEM

Secondary Canon:
? (any crossover AVP EU post-AVP:R)

Potential Canon:
... (I guess hamfist the shoehorn is the deal-e-o here...)

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 12, 2021, 07:53:15 PM...
...

A V P

Main Canon:
AVP
AVP: RESURRECTION

...

For a moment, I thought that Alien Resurrection was part of your AVP headcanon.  :laugh:

(https://i.ibb.co/fr3z2mV/Cloned-aliens-1-700x408.jpg)

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Aug 11, 2021, 08:45:18 PM
The name especially, but everything about it, is shit.

That's quite a reason

It should always have been Linguafoeda-Acheronsis Prime.

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 13, 2021, 06:05:29 AM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 12, 2021, 07:53:15 PM...
...

A V P

Main Canon:
AVP
AVP: RESURRECTION

...

For a moment, think that Alien Resurrection was part of your AVP headcanon.  :laugh:

https://i.ibb.co/fr3z2mV/Cloned-aliens-1-700x408.jpg

Haha, oops! OK, I fixed it.

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 13, 2021, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: Immortan Jonesy on Aug 13, 2021, 06:05:29 AM

Quote from: SpreadEagleBeagle on Aug 12, 2021, 07:53:15 PM...
...

A V P

Main Canon:
AVP
AVP: RESURRECTION

...

For a moment, think that Alien Resurrection was part of your AVP headcanon.  :laugh:

https://i.ibb.co/fr3z2mV/Cloned-aliens-1-700x408.jpg

Haha, oops! OK, I fixed it.

Oh don't worry, I actually enjoyed to fantasize about the idea given the similarity between the creatures. Well, technically they are the same aliens but painted differently.  :laugh:

For me Canon has nothing to do with films, comics, books, etc.
I have my own idea of what I would have liked the canon to be and what I would have liked the authors had explored.

The Universe is inhabited by many sentient and non-sentient species, e.g., the Arcturians (Aliens)
Through space exploration, humanity has encountered some of them.
One of these species is the Alien that we all love and somewhere in the universe there is a planet which the Alien is native to. They are probably an ancient species, even million years old.
They are highly aggressive and dangerous—which is an euphemism—but they are not intelligent. One of the scenes I hate the most from all films is the one where they imply that the Aliens somehow managed to turn the lights off in Aliens. I could accept it if they destroyed a source of light but not that they turn off a power generator. 
An intelligent animal attacks with plans, evaluates risks and gains, does not rush towards its death only "because"—unless driven by some fanaticism or fear of a worse punition (i.e., soldiers sent to their death for religious or military reasons).


As they say on Earth, which came first? The egg or the chicken? The Aliens reproduce through the eggs, only laid by a different type of Alien that we all know as the Alien Queen. No other types of "Aliens" exist. There could be slight variations if the Alien is born from different creatures, that is, non-human, and whether this makes sense or not from a scientific point of view, I don't care.
—Eggs are only laid by Alien queens

Another species is that of the Space Jockey, which for some reason (scientific, military, etc) were transporting alien eggs in their ship (Alien).
Corollary: The Engineers do not exist. Prometheus, Covenant, AvP and AvP2 did not happen.
—No alien species has ever been to Earth (I do  hope they will though, in fiction).

Sounds awful, and completely the opposite of what the Alien franchise means, truly glad it's not the generic science fiction you posit.

Thread title is not capable of being resolved

Quote from: Trash Queen on Apr 12, 2021, 12:59:04 AM

Quote from: Kelgaard on May 09, 2020, 06:08:59 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESNkWFNXUAETIg3?format=jpg&name=large)

The awful Isolation novel, Instead of the Creative Assembly masterpiece, just why? Oh and AVP 2010's continuity and canon directly links it to AVP and AVPR, in addition to Aliens and Alien³ rather bluntly. Even if Neill Blomkamp's Alien V ever did come out, that it did not, it can't co-exist with the former.

I didn't notice I was using an image of the Isolation novel. I definitely mean the game.

I'm not concerned with the particulars of AVP2010 continuity, just more the cinematic experience of the game and how it would make a good template for a movie.

Good template? Not in the slightest. It's just AVP 2004 in space...

Also I hope after Demonic you are not seriously still holding out hope for more half baked Neill Blomkamp ideas.

Let people enjoy things for God's sake.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CriminalClassicBaboon-max-1mb.gif)

Spoiler

Spoiler

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No

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Quote from: Trash Queen on Sep 21, 2021, 08:44:22 PM
Good template? Not in the slightest. It's just AVP 2004 in space...

Also I hope after Demonic you are not seriously still holding out hope for more half baked Neill Blomkamp ideas.

Yup. I didn't like the ALIENS fan boy A5 premise to begin with, but I had to admit that some of the concepts presented looked alluring. The storyline seemed to be all over the place and there were some truly silly stuff tossed in there (the mech Queen suit for example), but I could see something fun and exciting materializing out of it if Blomkamp were to be surrounded by the right kind of people, as he's indeed a VERY flawed director.

Then I started watching DEMONIC, and oh boy - what a crap fest of a movie. Conceptually cool of course, like all of his stuff, but the actual movie is a total reeker. Yikes!

So yeah, I'm truly happy he didn't get to turn his A5 idea into an actual movie. I don't even think the Cameron fans would've been happy about it, even with Hicks (and Newt) being brought back from the dead to fight W-Y alongside Ripley. Even so, I have a hunch that this project will be revived at some point, or we'll see aspects from the project presented in future movies and media. Or like some people suggested: A novel or comic book adaptation of the script.

Quote from: SiL on Sep 21, 2021, 08:49:00 PM
Let people enjoy things for God's sake.

A deeply ironic post, 10/10

Quote from: SiL on Sep 21, 2021, 08:49:00 PM
Let people enjoy things for God's sake.

Nothing to add, just going to say that I appreciate your signature that I just noticed  :laugh:

Spoiler

Occam's razor

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Quote from: [cancerblack] on Sep 22, 2021, 01:21:48 PM

A deeply ironic post, 10/10

I don't remember saying people are wrong for liking things but please do pull me up next time I do, it's trash.

I am the Trash Queen!

But I never said that, just that AVP 2010 in no respect makes a good basis for a film but do continue anyway.

There's 2 continuities that i appreciate

Alternate:
Alien (theatrical)
Aliens (special edition)
Audible's adaptation of Gibson's Alien 3

Main:
Alien (theatrical)
Alien Isolation
Aliens (theatrical)
Alien Cold Forge
Alien3 (Assembly Cut)
Alien Into Charybdis
Prometheus
Alien Covenant

+ lots of Dark Horse stories that don't really fit in any continuity

(I'm fairly sure the tv show will delete Resurrection from continuity or at least make its existence impossible,
it probably will also make Alex White's books impossible to consider "canon".. not that it matters much.. they're awesome and will continue to be so).