I would find it hard to believe that Fox wouldn't release a 4K rendition of James Cameron's sequel Aliens for the 40th anniversary but will Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection get the same treatment?
Both Prometheus and Alien Covenant are in 4K.
Perhaps.
Quote from: The Old One on Jan 20, 2019, 08:50:42 PM
As for Alien, Aliens, Alien³ & AR.
It's difficult to say, Director James Cameron seems to
have no time for home media releases anymore. (Aliens)
Addendum: Be careful what you wish for.
(Judgment Day 3D/4K)
And we all know how David Fincher regards Alien³
-unless something's changed between 1992 and 2018, although;
(2012) "I'm so happy with the monster and the sfx and the look of the film and the performances
and what people were able to do with whatever minimal prep they had. I'm very happy with that
so I don't want to seem ungrateful. I'm not embarrassed by the film."
Patched 4K version request; patch the Alien & other blue/green screen effects.
Spoiler
(2010) Special Edition version basis:
Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.
Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.
(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)
As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are rad too.)
The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.
I must conclude the dog birth/death version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. With the Egg shot omitted.)
"Was she your Daughter?"
"No."
I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.
In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.
"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought." "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.
"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)
"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.
"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.
"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.
"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.
"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified.
I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that.
"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)
Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.
The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.
"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)
The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilst Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.
The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"
"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.
Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
(Visual representation of;)
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.
More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."
Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.
"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.
The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.
It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.
As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.
"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.
"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."
Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.
Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.
Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.
Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.
"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.
"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.
Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you acquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?
"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent. Redact it.
"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Included for obvious reasons.
I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the SE-
although ,"You're crazy." Redacted.
No chestburster
and no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.
Finished.
I'm willing to entertain the idea, the possibility that Alien will be
the only one of the original four on 4K, for some period of time.
Unless Charles De Lauzirika oversees all the Alien sequels, again.
Jean-Pierre Jeunet's likely to return though
I'd say, with a big bowl filled with DNR.
Although he said the transfer for Resurrection
didn't look as "Silver" as he'd intended so
I'd be interested to see that if possible.
Disney's 4K track-record's... bad.
I imagine a lot of it will also depend on how well Alien 4K sells or reviews.
Perhaps but I don't think so.
"Blade Runner Final Cut" new cuts.
Repair the Special Effects' errors of the first three and create the best of both worlds versions, otherwise IDC.
The Blu-ray is good enough.
Honestly don't see the appeal in 4K, originally didn't for Blu-Ray but then I did see the quality difference. For 4K I just don't see a huge change for me to jump and want a 4K release. Although since the first was released I'd be surprised if the rest weren't released in 4K. Jurassic Park did a similar thing with the 25th anniversary releasing the entire franchise in one set in 4K. So I can't imagine this being too different, maybe it won't be a collection style like JP but I'm sure they're soon to come at the very least.
Quote from: Predwars24 on Mar 10, 2019, 10:13:42 PM
Honestly don't see the appeal in 4K, originally didn't for Blu-Ray but then I did see the quality difference. For 4K I just don't see a huge change for me to jump and want a 4K release. Although since the first was released I'd be surprised if the rest weren't released in 4K. Jurassic Park did a similar thing with the 25th anniversary releasing the entire franchise in one set in 4K. So I can't imagine this being too different, maybe it won't be a collection style like JP but I'm sure they're soon to come at the very least.
Yeah same here when it came to Blu Ray, but ended up really falling for it after seeing a example/presentation of Avatar in the format. But I've also started upgrading my collection to 4k and very slowly I may add. For me I do see the very SLIGHT difference between BR & 4K, and im just a sucker for being roped into all of this :laugh: I just love physical media in general.
On Aliens, Alien 3 and Resurrection getting the 4k treatment, I think almost certainly we will... we will probably get Aliens first then a box set release of all 4. I don't think we will see a single, separate release of Alien 3 and A:R... I really think they would be included in a box set first. It just seems to be the trend at the moment with the 'less popular' movies in a franchise.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 10, 2019, 02:31:50 AM
Perhaps but I don't think so.
I'd be more inclined to sit on the probably not side of the fence but if it does really well, I wouldn't be surprised to see them consider other releases.
Disney's 4K record indicate the profit's negligible. The hope's 20th Century Fox is swift.
I suppose a lot that may also depend on how much autonomy Fox is going to have under Disney ownership.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney finally get around to releasing 4k versions of the original, unaltered Star Wars trilogy since acquiring Fox (and, by extension, ownership of ANH).
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 12, 2019, 01:48:38 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney finally get around to releasing 4k versions of the original, unaltered Star Wars trilogy since acquiring Fox (and, by extension, ownership of ANH).
Keyword = unaltered
Would you buy them? I'd still want the VFX cleaned up (e.g. matte lines, etc.)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 12, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
Would you buy them? I'd still want the VFX cleaned up (e.g. matte lines, etc.)
In a heartbeat!
You got me there. The cleaned up OT would be preferred. But if it was the OT with all the matte lines or nothing, I'd still pick it up.
I'd love 4k versions of the despecialized editions too, but I don't think they're even available in HD.
Georgie probably made sure Disney will never release the original versions of the OT when they made the deal. :D
That would be terrible.
Indeed. Perhaps a Official Disney equilibrium version's achievable though.
Despecialised Edition 4K
https://youtu.be/s-ujAhZH_Oo
If they ever do an upscaling of Aliens, I'd like them to sort out the matte lines in that too. Was just going through some Blu-ray screencaps of the dropship and the matte lines in that are way too obvious.
Aliens and Alien³ prithee.
Give me Alien3 with the Assembly Cut (though with the dogburster) and I'll be there on day one.
& The Special Effects mo-motion repaired.
Quote from: Erik Lehnsherr on Mar 12, 2019, 08:55:52 PM
& The Special Effects mo-motion repaired.
Ideally, I'd love to see them re-composited completely. But that'd take all the original footage existing and the money to do.
Honestly? If the original negative (before special effects) is unavailable.
Frame by frame repair perhaps is the only solution.
In which case I'd think we're unlikely to see that.
It's a effortless solution but it's monotonous.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 13, 2019, 10:57:24 AM
It's a effortless solution
I keep re-reading this hoping I've read it wrong but
Effortless?
Repairing a shitty composite where all of the problems are baked into a final image is by no stretch of the imagination "effortless". There would be a great deal of effort involved. It would arguably be
more time consuming -- not to mention expensive -- than getting digital scans of the original plates to redo it from scratch.
Fair enough.
I thought comparatively the Special Effects a professional Studio, e.g. WETA regularly experiences therefrom; 'effortless' apologies.
A studio like WETA would usually be building something from the ground up - modelling, rigging, animating, compositing, etc.
Considering what can be done with consumer-level tools today like After Effects, the compositing needs of Alien3 are actually fairly simply (no handheld shots, nice clean plates, etc.). We have better, faster digital tools at our disposal than the photochemical or rudimentary digital processes available back in 1992. There are people on this forum -- myself included -- who could do a better job of the compositing work with a subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud than what people saw in the cinemas. This isn't to brag, just to highlight how far tech's come in the last 27 years (that being said -- if the elements were shot with too much spill from the screen, you'd absolutely need a professional studio to fix it up in anything resembling good time.)
But if we're going to turn it into cleaning up existing shitty mattes, that turns into a whoooole other set of problems. Primarily you're introducing a lot of hands-on, frame-by-frame work you can get around when you're making the composites from scratch. You've got to remove colour casts and matte lines that are baked into the image. That will involve rotoscoping, secondary colour corrections, background replacements, and a whole slew of other fiddly things (especially in the shots where the Alien's shadow has been animated to react to flares being thrown past it -- shit!).
Possible, absolutely -- and, hell, if you had the money to throw at people, you could still get dedicated amateurs or semi-pros to do frame-by-frame touch-up and get pretty damn good results -- but it's a loooooot of effort.
"One thing I do know, that though I was blind, now I see."
Hope you don't think I was being shitty! And hopefully it's informative to others.
(Also if those other forumers who are actually in the VFX space want to correct me, I'd love to be proved wrong! Especially if it means I can do compositing work faster for my shit :laugh:)
No.
I appreciate it.
Informed > Ignorant
Then you'll love to hear most of these discs are really 2K than actually 4K. :-\
Hell, some of them are HD.
Yeah, I know.
A superior transfer's a superior transfer regardless.
E.G. The Japanese release of Ghost in the Shell.
Anything over HD on most consumer screens is overkill anyway. 4K for home distribution is about as much of a marketing upsell as 3D and curved screens. Sliiiiightly more practical, to be fair, but not by much.
Agreed, the best version's the priority anyway.
Aka 720P Despecialised Edition Star Wars > Star Wars 1080P Special Edition.
Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 12, 2019, 08:51:49 PM
Give me Alien3 with the Assembly Cut (though with the dogburster) and I'll be there on day one.
Alien 3 Assembly Cut with Dog Burster and Theatrical version of Ripley's sacrifice. DONE! ;D
The Theatrical Sacrifice is garbage fanservice, (Visual's awful) so- no.
Patched 4K version request; patch the Alien & other blue/green screen effects:
Spoiler
(2010) Special Edition version basis:
Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.
Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.
(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)
As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are rad too.)
The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.
I must conclude the dog birth/death version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. With the Egg shot omitted.)
"Was she your Daughter?"
"No."
I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.
In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.
"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought." "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.
"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)
"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.
"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.
"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.
"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.
"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified.
I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that.
"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)
Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.
The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.
"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)
The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilst Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.
The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"
"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.
Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
(Visual representation of;)
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.
More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."
Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.
"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.
The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.
It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.
As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.
"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.
"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."
Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.
Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.
Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.
Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.
"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.
"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.
Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you acquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?
"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent. Redact it.
"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Included for obvious reasons.
I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the SE-
although ,"You're crazy." Redacted.
No chestburster
and no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.
Finished.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 14, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
Always wish this had been added to the SE whenever I watch it. That and Ripley's long pause before telling Bishop II "No" and closing the gate on him.
Indeed, agreed.
Her sacrifice is more meaningful if she wasn't already seconds away from popping.
^
Which is why the AC ending is the better one.
She makes the decision to die not knowing how far she is away from popping so it makes no difference.
45 Minutes from popping, to 4.5 minutes, to 45 seconds from popping, it makes her sacrifice no more meaningful to me.
Knowing Hicks and Newt are alive somewhere while she's doing it, now we're talking.
And however one feels about it in film, Ripley restraining the burster against her as she falls to her death is quite the visual.(imo)
Well not that fire, those effects... but put the visual in your head and presto! Quite a visual! ;D
"No."
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 15, 2019, 05:42:38 AM
I disagree, if Dwayne Hicks and Rebecca Jorden (Newt)'s alive- Ripley's personal attachment renders the sacrifice simple, save the family. But dead and the comfort's absent.
It's difficult to do the right thing when you've something to fight for.
It's more difficult to do the right thing when you've nothing to fight for.
The effect's horrendous and rushed.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 15, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
Her sacrifice is more meaningful if she wasn't already seconds away from popping.
I've heard/read a lot of people agree with this... but for me personally, the theatrical version of the sacrifice scene is much more powerful, with her holding the alien/queen down as she falls... for me personally this just had more impact.
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 17, 2019, 02:17:05 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 15, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
Her sacrifice is more meaningful if she wasn't already seconds away from popping.
I've heard/read a lot of people agree with this... but for me personally, the theatrical version of the sacrifice scene is much more powerful, with her holding the alien/queen down as she falls... for me personally this just had more impact.
Personally I have gone back and forth with this. Not in regards to it being any more meaningful if Ripley jumps at the time of popping or a hour before, because to me, it doesn't get any more emotional either way. But just the imagery of Ripley using her last bit of strength to hold the buster against her, and take it down with her, and to almost appear at peace with it is indeed powerful.
So I can understand that point of view. :)
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 14, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
The Theatrical Sacrifice is garbage fanservice, (Visual's awful) so- no.
Quote from: Voodoo Magic on Mar 17, 2019, 02:45:54 AM
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 17, 2019, 02:17:05 AM
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 15, 2019, 01:48:08 AM
Her sacrifice is more meaningful if she wasn't already seconds away from popping.
I've heard/read a lot of people agree with this... but for me personally, the theatrical version of the sacrifice scene is much more powerful, with her holding the alien/queen down as she falls... for me personally this just had more impact.
Personally I have gone back and forth with this. Not in regards to it being any more meaningful if Ripley jumps at the time of popping or a hour before, because to me, it doesn't get any more emotional either way. But just the imagery of Ripley using her last bit of strength to hold the buster against her, and take it down with her, and to almost appear at peace with it is indeed powerful.
So I can understand that point of view. :)
Exactly that really, I did feel the image of her falling and holding the alien down with 'her last bit of strength' was just so much powerful and I actually still find it emotional still to this day.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Mar 17, 2019, 03:02:09 AM
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 14, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
The Theatrical Sacrifice is garbage fanservice, (Visual's awful) so- no.
I disagree with it being fan service, for me it was a wise change, the AC version had no impact... though I will say I preferred the slower build up to her jumping actually, so there's certain moments I liked of the AC cut, id keep the buildup with extra shots of Weyland, but then keep the theatrical version of her falling. So half and half you could say.
It is fanservice. David Fincher declared so.
Spoiler
The light flickering is awful, Ripley ought to be writhing in pain and the bald cap is obvious.
Plus the cross fall symbolism is essential for writing home the film's themes. The theatrical sacrifice is inferior, narratively, thematically and visually.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 17, 2019, 07:49:02 PM
It is fanservice. David Fincher declared so.
David also declared his Alien a jaguar crossed with a freight train, which is nonsensical, soooo.... ;D
The personality.
And he's correct.
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 17, 2019, 08:01:15 PM
The personality.
And he's correct.
Freight trains have personality? ;D
Quote from: The Old One on Mar 12, 2019, 01:04:04 PM
we wanted it to be fast and big and powerful and dumb. A jaguar crossed with a freight train."
-David Fincher
Fast - Jaguars can run over 80 kilometers per hour
Big - Adult Jaguars are typically over 6 feet in length.
Powerful - Jaguars are incredibly strong and have the most powerful bite than any other cat on Earth.
Dumb - Is that where the freight train comes in?
I'm guessing "freight train" is a reference to the impact it makes when it slams into its victims at high speeds.
Yeah, the impact- E.G; Alan Jude.
Affirmative.
Honestly a big powerful Jaguar could have the same slamming impact as a Runner, especially coming at you at 80 kilometers per hour, sooo.... ;D
(https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cdn.turner.com%2Fcnn%2F2011%2FTRAVEL%2F05%2F17%2Fjaguar.spotting.belize.matador%2Ft1larg.jaguar.jpg&hash=1a7c915b8f53790da32b4975f9c071c320b717c2)
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 14, 2019, 07:12:23 PM
Quote from: 0321recon on Mar 12, 2019, 08:51:49 PM
Give me Alien3 with the Assembly Cut (though with the dogburster) and I'll be there on day one.
Alien 3 Assembly Cut with Dog Burster and Theatrical version of Ripley's sacrifice. DONE! ;D
Alternatively, Alien 3 Assembly Cut with the mention of Spike and the shot of the egg removed.
Agreed. Or...
Spoiler
Patched 4K version request; patch the Alien & other blue/green screen effects:
(2010) Special Edition version basis:
Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.
Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.
(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)
As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are rad too.)
The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.
I must conclude the dog birth/death version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. With the Egg shot omitted.)
"Was she your Daughter?"
"No."
I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.
In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.
"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought." "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.
"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)
"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.
"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.
"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.
"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.
"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified.
I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that.
"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)
Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.
The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.
"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)
The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilst Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.
The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"
"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.
Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
(Visual representation of;)
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.
More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."
Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.
"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.
The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.
It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.
As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.
"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.
"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."
Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.
Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.
Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.
Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.
"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.
"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.
Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you acquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?
"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent. Redact it.
"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Included for obvious reasons.
I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the SE-
although ,"You're crazy." Redacted.
No chestburster
and no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.
Finished.
Considering you need a special Blu-ray player and telly, Alien 3 and Resurrection getting 4K transfers will depend on whether the format catches on. Aliens would be a given, but for the original quality. Don't know how it would come up.
Correct me if this is incorrect, but I thought Cameron hinted at a 3D conversion of Aliens.
A time ago, if Judgments Day did well.
It didn't.
Quote from: SM on Mar 17, 2019, 11:53:06 PM
Aliens would be a given, but for the original quality. Don't know how it would come up.
DNR out the asshole, judging by the T2 4K.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 01, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
A time ago, if Judgments Day did well.
It didn't.
Fine by me. 3D is a dumb gimmick and Cameron really screwed up the colors on T2.
It was perfectly timed with its 2̶5̶t̶h̶ 26th Anniversary!
Quote from: David's Creation on Apr 01, 2019, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 01, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
A time ago, if Judgments Day did well.
It didn't.
Fine by me. 3D is a dumb gimmick and Cameron really screwed up the colors on T2.
RIP pink lasers. :(
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on Apr 01, 2019, 12:16:34 PM
Quote from: David's Creation on Apr 01, 2019, 12:02:46 PM
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 01, 2019, 11:58:28 AM
A time ago, if Judgments Day did well.
It didn't.
Fine by me. 3D is a dumb gimmick and Cameron really screwed up the colors on T2.
RIP pink lasers. :(
If you're looking for a pink laser display you need to see Huggsy's bedroom. (Don't ask me how I know)
Quote from: Space_Dementia on Mar 17, 2019, 02:17:05 AMI've heard/read a lot of people agree with this... but for me personally, the theatrical version of the sacrifice scene is much more powerful, with her holding the alien/queen down as she falls... for me personally this just had more impact.
The way Ripley's so serene and maternally cuddles the Chestburster to her as she falls is what kills the theatrical ending for me.
Look at how Kane/the colonist/the dog/everyone else reacts to a Chestburster popping out of them. Ripley's calm response is ridiculous by comparison.
It's a shame because the actual Queenburster puppet they made was awesome, and the re-edit in the extended cut messes up perhaps the most powerful moment of score Goldenthal wrote for the entire film, but I'll still take the 'burster-less ending any day.
100% Correct.
Ripley's calm response considering her decision to kill herself is perfect.
Comparing it to Kane is silly.
And the effect of Ripley falling into the furnace in the SE looks cheap and hokey as buggery.
Quote from: SM on Apr 09, 2019, 12:42:14 AM
Ripley's calm response considering her decision to kill herself is perfect.
Kinda like Luke in TESB before the special edition dubbed in a scream?
Kind of. He did not look happy falling down that shaft though, so the scream isn't completely out of place. Just a bit.
The more annoying thing was that it was just the Emperor overdubbed.
Quote from: SM on Apr 09, 2019, 12:42:14 AMRipley's calm response considering her decision to kill herself is perfect.
Comparing it to Kane is silly.
Why?
She might be calm and content in her decision, but there's only so much physical trauma you can ignore. Kane wasn't writhing around on the table out of fear alone, it was unimaginable physical agony.
And the Theatrical Version's special effect is far, far worse.
The soundtrack's the only aspect superior for the Theatrical Version.
(& The Barking & The Quadrupedal Alien Birth)
If I recall, you actually see her hit the furnace and momentarily burn up in the extended cut.
In the theatrical she instead seems to fall for infinity until she simply disappears.
Quote from: HuDaFuK on Apr 09, 2019, 08:09:23 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 09, 2019, 12:42:14 AMRipley's calm response considering her decision to kill herself is perfect.
Comparing it to Kane is silly.
Why?
She might be calm and content in her decision, but there's only so much physical trauma you can ignore. Kane wasn't writhing around on the table out of fear alone, it was unimaginable physical agony.
She knew what was coming and it burst in one go. Neither of which apply to Kane.
Quote from: SM on Apr 09, 2019, 02:06:43 AM
The more annoying thing was that it was just the Emperor overdubbed.
Did they squander a perfect opportunity to use the Wilhelm?
The physical trauma argument is applicable regardless. One go or no. It's ridiculous.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 10, 2019, 03:27:14 AM
Quote from: SM on Apr 09, 2019, 02:06:43 AM
The more annoying thing was that it was just the Emperor overdubbed.
Did they squander a perfect opportunity to use the Wilhelm?
Yikes.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 10, 2019, 03:43:14 AM
The physical trauma argument is applicable regardless. One go or no. It's ridiculous.
Yeah, I can't imagine being ripped apart from the inside - expecting it or not - to make it any less painful. I can see the issue there.
I know USC in LA is doing their Alien exhibit and recently announced their doing a screening of all four films. I hope someone near can go to the screenings and see if Fox has provided them with 4K remastered versions of all four films. I'd be keen to hear if Alien3 got a remaster.
As I.
Stipulation;
A Patched 4K version; patch the Alien & other blue/green screen effects.
&
Spoiler
(2010) Special Edition version basis:
Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.
Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.
(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)
As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are superior cinematography.)
The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.
Either Ox or Dog, birth/death version's a good choice-
(The opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, and it's simpler to conclude that there
are one or two stowaway Facehuggers. Omitting;
(The "Ovomorph" and the glimpse of Ellen Ripley before the gasket blows.
And the shot of each Facehugger where applicable.)
"Was she your Daughter?"
"No."
I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.
In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.
"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought." "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.
"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)
"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.
"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.
"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.
"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.
"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified.
I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that.
"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)
Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.
The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.
"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)
The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilst Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.
The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"
"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.
Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
(Visual representation of;)
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.
More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."
Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.
"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.
The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.
It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.
As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.
"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.
"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."
Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.
Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.
Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.
Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.
"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.
"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.
Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you acquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?
"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent. Redact it.
"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Inclusion for obvious reasons.
I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the SE-
No chestburster
and no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.
Finished.
I bet that rod puppet would look glorious in 4k.
Lol.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 11, 2019, 04:01:12 PM
Stipulation;
A Patched 4K version; patch the Alien & other blue/green screen effects.
&
Spoiler
(2010) Special Edition version basis:
Seeing Clemens walk alone, immediately establishes him as a loner to the audience-
even amongst "his own people" -the imagery of Ripley covered in oil and insects also;
immediately defines both the idea that nothing is sacred here and she's covered in insects.
It's beautiful cinematography. Beautiful location establishment. Heroic.
Seeing Andrews type reflected in the monitor both establishes him as an authority figure
and the overseer before he utters a word.
The ADR works better here with the overhead shot of the EEV,
because now it makes sense that what
Frank says sounds like it's coming from a distance;
rather than the camera being right up in his face.
(I know the EEV is upside down in this shot, but I'm going to say it doesn't matter
as it's honestly hard to tell each side from the other as they lack many defining features,
especially when covered in debris.)
As for the rest of the opening, I just like it better because it's kinder to Newt-
it means that we're on the same page regarding Newt with Ripley because
Clemens could be telling the truth about her drowning in her cryotube unawares.
(Additionally, personally: I prefer to think he is.)
(The shots of Bishop and Hicks are superior cinematography.)
The message confirmation- (I don't think it's in the theatrical release)
is a minor detail that establishes that these aren't just the facility's
private records but that a link with a company or government exists.
I must conclude the dog birth/death version's superior-
if only for the shot of the dog barking at the Facehugger.
(And the fact the opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, it's simpler to conclude that there
are two stowaway Facehuggers. Omitting;
(The "Ovomorph" and the glimpse of Ellen Ripley before the gasket blows.)
"Was she your Daughter?"
"No."
I think is also particularly poignant and worth keeping,
because it adds the additional layer of the idea-
that not only is Ripley grieving but she isn't entitled to her grief;
which makes sense in the following scene when Kevin asks
"What is she doing?" Because Ripley's behaviour is strange
if she was Newt's mother, but now additionally so to Clemens
as he is aware she's not in-fact her mother.
Which adds another layer to their interactions and
Clemens' reluctance in the autopsy.
In this version where Golic has a pivotal role to play;
The scene between Rains, Boggs, Golic and Dillon is important.
Not for Rains and Boggs' sake, although this scene certainly
gives you better insight into their personalities through their
excellent naturalistic performances- but for Dillon and Golic.
It establishes for the latter two a relationship, despite
the fact Dillon is clearly the leader- Golic makes people
uneasy to the point they both openly question his sanity.
Dillon defends Golic, even patting him on the shoulder
as he leaves. This is setup for Golic's "arc" in the story,
importantly it also establishes Dillon's care for Golic so
the "He's never lied to me! He's crazy, he's a fool but he's not a liar!"
doesn't come out of nowhere.
"As I thought, Mr. Aaron. As I thought." "You called it, sir."
Not immensely important, but good for character.
"Why we're waiting for God to return- and raise his servants to redemption."
I think this and it's musical cue is particularly important, because
it's prefaced with "What are you waiting for?" Ripley's used to rape and death-
by this point, but Dillon shows that's not all he is.
(I'd sound pretentious if I rambled on any longer about this conversation,
suffice to say; I think it highlights the themes of the film in an important way.)
"I've been out here a long time."
"So have I."
Reciprocation people, important for any relationship.
"I think you owe me an answer. Being in my bed's got nothing to do with it."
Further establishes Clemens as a good, decent person- and intelligent.
Which is good because it means his demise has extra sting.
For both Ripley and the audience.
This is someone she could've opened up to and the moment she dies-
or is about to "You first." The Alien takes that from her, like it takes everything.
"Light a candle for Murphy."
Murphy being good to Golic is a nice little additional detail that adds to his estrangement.
"You screw with me one more time I'll cut you in half."
This is an interesting addition, not for the above quoted line as that's in both versions-
But for the idea that Andrews doesn't want Aaron to see the dissention in the ranks.
Or for the prisoners to know that the relationship between Clemens and Andrews is tepid at best.
Further reinforcing "I don't want ripples in the water." Not for anyone's safety but his own.
Not including Aaron in on the conversation is an indication of why Aaron has the warped view
of Andrews as a good man that he does, when to me this calls into question Andrew's trustworthiness.
"She told me she was part of a combat unit that came to grief, beyond that I assume it's all classified.
I haven't pressed her for more."
It's cool that the events of Aliens are both acknowledged and an indication of some real trust Ripley has with Clemens.
Or trust issues depending upon what way you interpret that.
"CIGARETTES!"
(Setup)
Eric dropping the plates, sets up that he's prone to break down under pressure-
just like he does when he sets the piston off prematurely later on.
I also like, just personally that Golic is found doing something mundane.
It echoes a serial killer's derangement of treating their acts as though it were any other day.
The tension is much, much superior with the extended version of the Dragon sneaking up
on Clemens and Ripley, with Golic squirming in fear.
"Magnificent." (This is a good, short homage to "Perfect Organism" IMO-
Showing that awe has completely overthrown fear in Golic's mind.)
The shot of the inside of the vent, covered in blood-
whilst Jude mops up is not only a fantastic shot but
is a direct through line to much of the cinematography
and language of the film. The prisoners, the humans-
generally are always filmed from below.
Yet Ripley and the Alien fall from the sky,
with the first three times (Boggs and Rains) Golic,
the Clemens, then Andrews- the Alien descends
from above, from above the dirty existence of the prisoners.
The film's visual language is strengthened by this shot.
And it leads perfectly into what's literally being said;
"The apocalypse is upon us! Let us be ready!
Let your mercy be just!"
"Sounds good to me."
Morse is blaming Ripley, and I think this is good insight
on her state of mind because it shows that maybe she
does blame herself, for the deaths of everyone she couldn't save.
In this way "Morse... Why don't you shut the f**k up?"
Has more poignancy because IMO- he's not just speaking to Morse-
but also Ripley, mirroring later on when Ripley wants to die
but Dillon refuses to let her, because unless both Aliens are dead;
her sacrifice would be totally in vain and bullshit-
then it's more suicide than sacrifice.
Arthur and Troy checking through batteries.
(Visual representation of;)
"Nothing much works here!"
"No video surveillance, no f**king ice-cream!"
The extra footage of the quinitricetyline plan makes sense,
because in this version it actually has a payoff.
More Dillon caring for Ripley in this version, that's good-
not only does it reinforce the relationship between them
and endear us to Dillon but it's a nice little hint at the "reveal."
Visually there's a fantastic addition in that Ripley
helps two of the inmates that attempted to rape her,
Junior whom we can distinguish from his teardrop tattoo
most importantly, sees Ripley doing something for her fellow
man regardless of what happened earlier.
This with guilt, obviously inspires him to take the action he does
and give his life for those of his fellow man.
"Oh Jesus, this makes ten."
Is removed and rightfully so,
I don't believe Dillon would say this
even if the operation was a failure.
The speech honouring them is much more fitting.
For Dillon's character and the bittersweet note
that this sequence ends on.
It's also worth noting that the conversation here
where Aaron doesn't believe in or respect the beliefs
of the prisoners, and Aaron leaving the prisoner
he was with to burn- is part of Aaron's arc
that leads him from "A Company man" to hitting
Michael Bishop over the back of the head with a wrench.
As well as the W-Y transmission's introduction
as foremost the new main problem.
"Permission denied."
Importantly confirms W-Y's intentions to the audience
and the characters.
"No more cigarettes for you."
(CIGARETTES payoff.)
The influence of the Alien,
has completely overthrown Golic's reason at this point,
the film even infers this visually with a reference to a horror classic;
Bela Lugosi's Dracula as Golic's eyes are highlighted before he's dispatched.
f**king fantastic.
"Dillon we've got a teeny weeny problem..."
Then importantly:
Morse's failure to contain Golic is addressed-
as it logically would be.
"Well, I'm out of ideas!"
With Ripley's "morning sickness" cropping up
one final time, third time's the charm.
Ripley disappears, disillusioned-
She finds out about the Queen.
Our heroes are now at their lowest point.
(Which wouldn't have happened had sacrifices not been made
and the creature not been captured in the first place.)
Not only has Ripley lost everyone close to her,
the Alien is loose again and there's two ticking time bombs-
W-Y and the one inside her chest.
Morse's epiphany;
When he remembers the Alien is afraid of fire.
Let's make it to the furnace.
I believe this is important because it's as The Fifth Element would say;
A little light of life, it's a moment of hope the film desperately needs.
The descent between the prisoners reminds me of the
"Parker. Shut up!" scene in Alien, in regards to how they
could possibly kill the Alien. You could take it or leave it.
But I wouldn't leave it.
"I was violated. And now I get to be mother of the year."
In addition to what I said earlier on this scene,
it raises the stakes because the implication is that
if this thing gets off Fiorina 161- not Earth,
not humanity, but all life, is at stake-
"wipe out the whole universe" & I believe it,
because this is Sigourney Weaver's best performance.
"This is as good a place as any to take our first steps to Heaven".
The extended speech and score is superior, no explanation required.
Before the chase & bait begins,
there's several tiny scenes showing how the different prisoners
react to their situation, I think that's fairly appropriate-
to get you acquainted with where everyone is in the tunnels.
Rather than one scene of David criticising the plan.
Although- why not both?
"I think I've found Vincent!"
Speaks for itself doesn't it? lol
Mysterious Mark Vincent. Redact it.
"Improvising!"
Not necessary but love this scene.
Especially Ripley's reaction.
(Insert "You're gonna need a bigger cage than that.")
"And then it's over."
"I'm not a droid!"
"No pictures!"
Inclusion for obvious reasons.
I believe Ripley would pause for contemplation,
so I prefer her death in the SE-
No chestburster
and no bad slo-mo.
More graceful fall in a cross position.
In tune with the film's thematics.
Finished.
What about the egg?
QuoteEither Ox or Dog, birth/death version's a good choice-
(The opening shows a regular Facehugger
on REDACTED's face, and it's simpler to conclude that there
are one or two stowaway Facehuggers. Omitting;
(The "Ovomorph" and the glimpse of Ellen Ripley before the gasket blows.
And the shot of each Facehugger where applicable.)
& The rod-puppet is excellent, the optical composition special effect isn't.
Those are some ambitious stipulations.
Necessary changes, worthwhile for the expensive 4K process.
Would you buy the physical media to place on the shelf?
Absolutely.
From what I see there presenting the original theatrical cut of Alien3 with a q&a with Alec Gills and Richard Edlund. It will be interesting to hear what they say.
https://cinema.usc.edu/events/event.cfm?id=45247
Also for those who have a guilty pleasure for Resurrection, Jean -Pierre is doing the Q&A when they screen that film the week after.
For Alien and Aliens my it's going to be a treat.
https://cinema.usc.edu/events/event.cfm?id=45244
https://cinema.usc.edu/events/event.cfm?id=45240
I'd be ecstatic if they do present 4K masters for each film.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 11, 2019, 06:03:47 PM
Those are some ambitious stipulations.
That's Old One for ya!
When the Star Trek: The Original Series was being remastered for blu-ray, she successfully lobbied Paramount to replace Spock's dog with a more suitable alien lifeform.
Now it doesn't even look like a dog!
(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/1*Fknie_6hZu2Lot-tB5PyfQ.gif)
Quote from: Local Trouble on Apr 11, 2019, 04:18:54 PM
I bet that rod puppet would look glorious in 4k.
;D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
If they do a 4K remaster, they must fix those effects before even trying to do the remaster since it's going to be way obvious how bad the compositing was done.
It was way obvious in cinemas in 1992.
Exactly why it requires a repair.
If they do an Alien³ 4K remaster, a cleanup would be nice. Like reversing Newt and Hick's deaths. :)
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 11, 2019, 09:26:15 PM
No.
So... you're undecided?
Exhaustion.
Artificially rectifying their deaths is disrespectful to Hicks and Newt's memory. lol
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 11, 2019, 09:29:38 PM
Exhaustion.
Alien: Exhaustion
In all seriousness, would Disnox spend the money fixing Alien3 fx? Are there any examples of this done for a generally non-highly regarded film? I honestly don't know - why I'm asking.
No. Blade Runner's the only one and it's popularity and quality eclipses Alien³ and Aliens IMO. It's a pipedream, unfortunately.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/4b31e53b049d033d94a9f8a77906f246/tenor.gif?itemid=4727179)
"But it is a good dream."
lmfao
Good one.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 11, 2019, 09:20:52 PM
Exactly why it requires a repair.
It's always needed a repair, doesn't mean they'll bother.
They think it's crud.
They did put the effort in to finish the audio for the assembly cut on blu-ray...
I was really surprised by that.
Yeah, likewise.
Still, I highly doubt they'd be prepared to put in the kind of effort and expense required to fix up all those effects shots when Alien 3 has such a minor following compared to the first two.
Depends if they thought there'd be appeal in it. I think there would be. How much further that would expand outside of the fandom is the question, though.
As far as appeal goes, I'm guessing the only reason we got the cleaned-up/re-recorded audio on the Blu-ray was because so many people were saying how much better they thought the extended cut was after the Quadrilogy came out. I even recall a few serious review sites posting articles about it being an improvement when I doubt they'd otherwise mentioned the film in years.
But at the end of the day, I can only assume getting Lance Henriksen back in the studio for a couple of hours is considerably cheaper (not to mention far less time-consuming) than digitally overhauling all those effects shots would be. And as the Anthology seems pretty definitive and only a few die-hard fans are likely to double-dip for another release of the third movie, I still say I'd be mightily surprised if they went through with it.
Yeah, unfortunately I wouldn't bet on it happening.
Disnox Alien3 retcon incoming.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BigCornyArcticwolf-size_restricted.gif)
Unless you're going to go for a retcon.
It's part of the series chronology and deserves the best treatment available.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 12, 2019, 05:30:20 PM
Unless you're going to go for a retcon.
It's part of the series chronology and deserves the best treatment available.
Especially to one who prefers Alien3 over Aliens! ;)
Or over either Alien or Aliens.
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 12, 2019, 05:35:12 PM
Or over either Alien or Aliens.
Wowie! Alien3 over both?
Yeah. It's my favourite.
But quality wise? Alien > Aliens, Alien³.
:o
Quote from: The Old One on Apr 12, 2019, 05:38:26 PM
Yeah. It's my favourite.
But quality wise? Alien > Aliens, Alien³.
Thats interesting. So Alien³ just speaks to you more, regardless of any imperfections.