Future AVP stories and the Alien prequels

Started by EJA, May 23, 2020, 09:46:17 PM

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Future AVP stories and the Alien prequels (Read 2,920 times)

EJA

I was wondering, should any future Alien vs Predator tales, be they comic books, novels or games, jettison the idea that the two species have a very long history, with the Aliens being an integral part of Predator culture, and have their first encounter be in the future? It would be a better fit with the new Alien prequel films.

SM

Let AvP follow it's own existing continuity and not worry about Alien.

426Buddy

^agreed

SuperiorIronman

Quote from: EJA on May 23, 2020, 09:46:17 PM
I was wondering, should any future Alien vs Predator tales, be they comic books, novels or games, jettison the idea that the two species have a very long history, with the Aliens being an integral part of Predator culture, and have their first encounter be in the future? It would be a better fit with the new Alien prequel films.

They tried that with the Darkhorse reboot and it didn't stick nor make sense to the Predator continuity. This is to the point that Predator weirdly uses both the ancient Xenomorphs and the Prequel origin.
The film continuity includes the crossovers and the Alien skull in Predator 2 as well as Lex's spear is also seen in The Predator. The Neca toys which have backstories that are meant to be canonical also make mention of Xenomorphs. It's just something that Predator continuity will acknowledge rather than Alien. 

SpaceKase

There's nothing in the film Covenant that precludes the existence of human bred xenomorphs on any other planet or in any time prior to David's experiments on Planet 4; the novel for Covenant supports this.

Nightmare Asylum

For what its worth, the ADF's alterations in the novelization aren't reflective of Ridley Scott's own thoughts on the matter. He was not drawing from any script material there.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#6
Quote from: Nightmare Asylum on May 24, 2020, 03:25:59 AM
For what its worth, the ADF's alterations in the novelization aren't reflective of Ridley Scott's own thoughts on the matter. He was not drawing from any script material there.

I mean, not for nothin' but... Ridley's thoughts aren't reflective of his thoughts on any given narrative matter. He's primarily a visual director and very particular about it, but when it comes to story and filming he's very improvisational and bounces ideas around with his creative staff. I love the guy, but lets not forget how he thought the original Alien should end...

"I thought that the alien should come in, and Ripley harpoons it and it makes no difference, so it slams through her mask and rips her head off," he says. He goes on to say the Xenomorph would mimic the voice of Tom Skerritt's Captain Dallas saying, "I'm signing off."
    https://consequenceofsound.net/2017/04/ridley-scott-reveals-his-cruel-original-ending-to-alien-watch/

Meta info like Writer/Author/Director creative intent is helpful in a lot of situations, but as any debate on egg-morphing will illustrate, if it ain't in the movie, it ain't a fact.

postscript: I love and will always embrace and defend the existence of egg-morphing.

SiL

Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 03:01:22 AM
There's nothing in the film Covenant that precludes the existence of human bred xenomorphs on any other planet or in any time prior to David's experiments on Planet 4; the novel for Covenant supports this.
There's the part where David describes inventing a new species and that species is the Alien. It's towards the end of the film.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#8
Quote from: SiL on May 24, 2020, 05:38:40 AM
Quote from: SpaceKase on May 24, 2020, 03:01:22 AM
There's nothing in the film Covenant that precludes the existence of human bred xenomorphs on any other planet or in any time prior to David's experiments on Planet 4; the novel for Covenant supports this.
There's the part where David describes inventing a new species and that species is the Alien. It's towards the end of the film.

I mean sure, every little kid thinks they're really steering the car on Mr Toad's Wild Ride, but David's an insane robit, waaaay past his recommended maintenance date who doesn't even know who really wrote Ozymandias. Walter had him pegged from the start.

After committing genocide on a lark, David's just been busting open steatite ampules and exposing goo to as many different tissue types as he can get his hands on. Then, like the crazy pants that he's become, he starts cataloging all the little critters that result using archaic-ass Linnaean taxonomy from the pre-theory-of-evolution swingin' 1700's, instead of modern-science based cladastic methodology that had already been in use for something like 150 years by his time. Give the guy a funny hat now and you could probably convince him that he's Napolean.

He hasn't created life, he's just mashing buttons on the vending machine and taking credit for 'designing' whatever pops out. He aspires to be godlike by surpassing and supplanting not only his creators, whom he now deems inferior, but also their ostensibly unworthy creators. I think it's safe to say the guy is thoroughly cracked in the case and suffering from severe delusions of grandeur.

But that's just my kooky take on the matter, your mileage may vary and that's fair too.

SiL

SiL

#9
QuoteHe hasn't created life, he's just mashing buttons on the vending machine and taking credit for 'designing' whatever pops out.
Pretty much exactly what he says he did. He took an existing pathogen-infected bug and experimented on it to make his own thing.

Every time he lies in the movie it's pointed out at length. This isn't.

SpaceKase

SpaceKase

#10
Quote from: SiL on May 24, 2020, 07:41:12 AM
QuoteHe hasn't created life, he's just mashing buttons on the vending machine and taking credit for 'designing' whatever pops out.
Pretty much exactly what he says he did. He took an existing pathogen-infected bug and experimented on it to make his own thing.

Every time he lies in the movie it's pointed out at length. This isn't.

Exactly, David's putting a pip in the dirt, sprinkling it with water, and proclaiming to the world that he's 'invented' the resultant orange.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think he's lying, David fully believes the naivete of his claims, just like he fully believed Lord Byron wrote Ozymandias. I'm not calling David insincere, I'm calling him narcissistically deluded and incorrect. The toaster is busted. One would kinda have to be in order to do all the crazy stuff he does and wants to keep doing.

SiL

An orange is a perfect analogy because it's an artificial species created by selective breeding.

Oranges didn't exist before intervention like the Alien didn't exist before David's intervention.

EJA

All we saw in The Predator was a spear that just happened to look like the one from AVP. It doesn't mean that film counts. The same goes for the skull in Predator 2; it wasn't really an Alien, it just happened to strongly resemble one.

SpaceKase

Quote from: SiL on May 24, 2020, 08:13:38 AM
An orange is a perfect analogy because it's an artificial species created by selective breeding.

Oranges didn't exist before intervention like the Alien didn't exist before David's intervention.

Sure, if you want. Party On.

Quote from: EJA on May 24, 2020, 08:58:46 AM
All we saw in The Predator was a spear that just happened to look like the one from AVP. It doesn't mean that film counts. The same goes for the skull in Predator 2; it wasn't really an Alien, it just happened to strongly resemble one.

uhhh, yeah man, go for it! That's absolutely a belief one could choose.

SiL

Is the attitude really necessary?

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