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[Eva]

I know they used kids for perspective Eva but they weren't supposed to be kids in the film!. Yes the 'blue man' jockey is bigger than the humans but he's still way too small compared to the jockey in ALIEN and he looks ridiculous when he's stood close to the chair, it looks like a child next to an adults chair.

There's inconsistency within Alien itself with regards to how big the jockey is supposed to be. Should we judge the size from a pic with the kids approaching or from a pic with the real actors close to the body? Giger himself said around 27ft, which is complete bullocks. 27ft is roughly a 3 floor building... But again - that wasn't the point I was discussing to start with.

People just have to accept that the jockeys are smaller in Prometheus for whatever reason. Besides, imagine how difficult it would be for Ridley to frame visuals in cinemascope with a human and an engineer in the same shot, if the engineer was 18-27ft tall. That would look ridiculous. He wouldn't even fit into the Prometheus set.

[Barringer]

I think the inability of the Space Jockey to maneuver human corridors is precisely the reason why the size was reduced.

[Mastes1]

I'm not sure, but in the pics you posted Mastes1, it seems to me (I may be mistaken) that it's again the children that we see on set... When we see the actors, the Jockey appears at its true size, which is a bit larger maybe than the Engineer we see in the pics from Prometheus, but that's hard to say...

[

I don't get why people are posting about them using kids for perspective, i mean yes they did but they weren't supposed to be kids in the actual film!, they were supposed to be adults. Also the jockey still looks huge when we see Dallas checking it out, the Prometheus jockey just looks like a tall man, the sheer bulk of the ALIEN jockey isn't there.

All valid points as to why the size of the jockey has been changed but that doesn't make it right, that sounds like something Ed Wood would do in one of his 'films'. Its like doing a new Terminator film and they lose the Terminator puppet but find a Robocop suit in the back and just use that instead!, yes an extreme example but you can't just half the size of the jockey to make it easier to film!.

[Ulfer]

lets just also be clear on something, when everyone watched ALIEN and saw the jockey, there was absolutely no impression of a humanoid that suits up, there wasnt any impression like that at all, it looked almost like skeletal remains.

"Everyone"... Hum... "Almost like"... Yes, it's rather like that.
I think that was impressed most was the alienness of this scene. What I understand most is the criticism that the Engineers have lost that alienness by being so humanoid, etc., even if I don't agree (notably because I think being closer to humans physically speaking can be more terrifying [uncanny valley, remember that the 2nd villain in Alien was an android !] and that the deal with the Engineer is that what they can do is more horrifying that their appearance [like us, for instance]).
I would say that the SJ is humanoid-like in Alien, in fact, except we don't see the whole body. Concerning the skeletal remains, I was not shocked in the slightest when I learned what we saw was mainly a suit. Considering the fact that we saw the SJ in a close way 30 seconds in Alien, that the team never did examine it properly (given the circumstances), and that it was so "alien", it is not counter-intuitive : we knew nothing about it.
The true question is the alienness of this particular alien, if I dare say, at the end. And to me, what imports is that when the Engineer is in his suit, he still looks as alien as we saw it in Alien (minus the fact it is not mummified). But I find him also alien without the whole apparatus, as I've already said. The concepts arts for the SJ and the Xeno from Alien were sometimes more "alien" than what resulted, which is humanoid-like and far more superior to these concept arts. Conversely, I found some depictions of the Jockey (in BD or in fan art) that followed the "massive alien with trunk" idea, unconvincing if placed in the context of a movie like Prometheus...

[Mastes1]

wether its the children or the adults, the engineer/jockey in alien is still significantly bigger, i mean significantly. when i say signifcantly, i mean like comparing the size of a 17inch macbook pro screen, to a 37 inch hdtv screen.  the way its being talked about here is like ' a few feet' as if its the difference between a 13 inch laptop and a 17 inch one. i really don't think so. which ever way we cut it,  it doesnt work, suited jockey or not. the jockey in the trailers still looks pudgey and small compared to the fully framed jockey in alien.

lets just also be clear on something, when everyone watched ALIEN and saw the jockey, there was absolutely no impression of a humanoid that suits up, there wasnt any impression like that at all, it looked almost like skeletal remains. can anyone come here and say they guessed or suspected a suit even? i mean before we ever heard of prometheus.

now, if we had an xeno included in Prometheus, and it happened to pop off its penile looking head and underneath it turned out to a humanoid inside, would you feel the same way about the original xeno? would it still seem like an alien? of course not.

Giger knew what he was doing, thats why they hired him.

Yeah i have said the same myself, the jockey in alien was a mummified skeleton with bones, there was nothing to suggest it was a suit.

[Eva]

I don't get why people are posting about them using kids for perspective, i mean yes they did but they weren't supposed to be kids in the actual film!, they were supposed to be adults. Also the jockey still looks huge when we see Dallas checking it out, the Prometheus jockey just looks like a tall man, the sheer bulk of the ALIEN jockey isn't there.

The point is (I'm repeating myself now) that it essentially screws up the consistency of the jockeys size within the same scene in the film. We don't have a problem with that - not at all. It just underlines that Ridley & co never established a definitive size for the jockey, judging by the visuals.

Kids


Actors


That's a distinctive size difference when you've seen it +10 times, but nobody minds. The trick works fine - the jockey is still huge. And that'll be the last I'll say about this... 

[Mastes1]

I don't get why people are posting about them using kids for perspective, i mean yes they did but they weren't supposed to be kids in the actual film!, they were supposed to be adults. Also the jockey still looks huge when we see Dallas checking it out, the Prometheus jockey just looks like a tall man, the sheer bulk of the ALIEN jockey isn't there.

The point is (I'm repeating myself now) that it essentially screws up the consistency of the jockeys size within the same scene in the film. We don't have a problem with that - not at all. It just underlines that Ridley & co never established a definitive size for the jockey, judging by the visuals.

Kids
http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/space-jockey-in-ridley-scotts-alien.jpg

Actors
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111208192216/avp/images/a/a9/Space-jockey-alien-2_1199468838_640w.jpg

That's a distinctive size difference when you've seen it +10 times, but nobody minds. The trick works fine - the jockey is still huge. And that'll be the last I'll say about this... 

CASE CLOSED!.

[ThisBethesdaSea]

Okay.....Let's say this then....


THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT DISCREPANCIES.


So, what does that mean? Do we know that much about Jockey culture to indeed judge whether or not one is too short? I'd say like most species, they vary in size and shape, even if they're giants of men.

Because there are significant differences...does that ruin the film? What exactly is the damage that is done?

[Mastes1]

Okay.....Let's say this then....


THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT DISCREPANCIES.


So, what does that mean? Do we know that much about Jockey culture to indeed judge whether or not one is too short? I'd say like most species, they vary in size and shape, even if they're giants of men.

Because there are significant differences...does that ruin the film? What exactly is the damage that is done?

Well if it doesn't bother you then fine but we are not all alike and thats a good thing, I'm a huge fan and it does bother me, we are not talking about tiny discrepancies here.

[ThisBethesdaSea]

But WHY?

WHY does it bother you? Why should it look EXACTLY like the other dead space jockey in a completely separate ship on a completely separate planet?

[Ulfer]

I try to understand why there would be discrepancies here, but I don't. Different planet, different ship, different individual, maybe different epoch (we don't really know, but as I like the idea that the Derelict in Alien has landed a very long time ago)...
It is Prometheus that gives infos about the Engineers, that shows them in action, etc. As for the canonical source about Engineers, Prometheus will domine, no doubt, and all the more since we didn't know nothing about the SJ in Alien except what we could see and sometimes deduce ! I'm "sorry" to say it, but the SJ, however perfectly-well-made (artistically) for Alien, was nothing but a secondary thing then. Ridley has decided to delve into that secondary element and to flesh it, which implies choices (I wrote about that in another topic) that can displease some, for the necessities of scenario and action.
But, by the way, even if we don't take that aspect into account, there is still the fact that

Do we know that much about Jockey culture to indeed judge whether or not one is too short ?

as wrote ThisBethesdaSea is a valid question. It's natural to extrapolate characteristics about the only individual of a species that we know, but it doesn't mean the next being of that species won't have differences, which can be great and various, if it is a human-like species in terms of diversity.

[Esoteric_Voyage]

I don't get why people are posting about them using kids for perspective, i mean yes they did but they weren't supposed to be kids in the actual film!, they were supposed to be adults. Also the jockey still looks huge when we see Dallas checking it out, the Prometheus jockey just looks like a tall man, the sheer bulk of the ALIEN jockey isn't there.

The point is (I'm repeating myself now) that it essentially screws up the consistency of the jockeys size within the same scene in the film. We don't have a problem with that - not at all. It just underlines that Ridley & co never established a definitive size for the jockey, judging by the visuals.

Kids
http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/space-jockey-in-ridley-scotts-alien.jpg

Actors
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111208192216/avp/images/a/a9/Space-jockey-alien-2_1199468838_640w.jpg

That's a distinctive size difference when you've seen it +10 times, but nobody minds. The trick works fine - the jockey is still huge. And that'll be the last I'll say about this... 

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kt09gyXHvv1qzexpio1_500.jpg

CASE CLOSED!.

in this photo, this really emphasis the case doesnt it? the head of the jockey (from the elongated view) looks near the size of gigers torso. and the jockey's arm doesnt look far off from being the same length as a human its self.

all the practical reasons for the sake of the film working, to make the jockey smaller, are understandable. i accept the reasons to some extent for changes, not entirely though, many instances in films, cinematography helped hide things or change perception, e.g. brad pitt is shorter than edward norton in real life, by a couple inches at least, but in the film brad pit always appears the same height or taller.  i dont think so much of the original jockey's impressions shoudlve been sacrificed. if James cameron could pull off a queen alien that is bigger than the jockey with puppets,  if the alien franchise could pull off aliens that didn't talk, (and there is always the alternative to the creatures having their own language.. subtitles..) then i dont believe the sacrifices would have to be this severe.

the very reasons to make prometheus a practical film to make, are the same ones that at least in my mind, destroy to some degree, the original alien feel and impression from the original. a shame.. but not a reason to stop prometheus being a good film. and will glady make it clear again - i look forward to prometheus a lot, and confident i will like it. i already feel i will buy it on home video straight away.. but because its already established as a loose connected prequel to alien, it inevitably isn't an independent title, and has to be compared and considered with the original. when we start doing that, thats where prometheus legs that it stands on, feel Brittle already. and we haven't even seen it yet, so it could be explain and be a bit better, or it could get even worse.

its annoyingly clear that people reach very very desperately out some 'work around' excuses for these differences,  i mean if were going to think up some work around ideas (which im definitely not against) lets atleast think of some good ones that are believable. so many things in life are possible, but reaching at what is possible is silly when were trying to establish sense/logic/and reasoning.

the excuse that its a different ship, and different jockey is just pure Reaching in my eyes. take a look at that chair, does that look like something that is built in various sizes? come on..

are we able to reach at the excuse  that some humans are apparently 20 foot tall in prometheus when comparing their size to the jockey in prometheus?

while talking about this i'v also began to speculate that maybe even the 'juggernaught' ship its self is not the same size as the one in alien.

[whiterabbit]

I kind of get the idea that Jockey suit is one size fits all. It can stretch to any size. So maybe the everyday Jockey is only a meter taller than the average human. Meaning the thing inside the suit in alien maybe be something else. That's the nice things about suit; you never know what's inside till you unzip it.

[ChrisPachi]

Any thoughts on what Shaw screams at the end of the 3rd TV spot? Sounds like 'die' to me, but not sure. Either way a pretty intense moment right there.

[180924609]

But WHY?

WHY does it bother you? Why should it look EXACTLY like the other dead space jockey in a completely separate ship on a completely separate planet?

Why? Because Ridley Scott has waited 30 years to tell the story about 'who was the guy in the chair from ALIEN' and now suddenly that character has halved in size!

I totally agree with Mastes1. Stevie Wonder could see that the Space Jockey from ALIEN is definitely NOT the suited-up Engineer from Prometheus:





It must be something we havent seen yet.

This is the only saving grace for ALIEN Space Jockey fans. There must be something very large and unpleasant that Ridley Scott is keeping under wraps for the 'final 8 minutes' that ties Prometheus to ALIEN.

The snippets of information shown so far seem to suggest that the Disney elephant face mask and ribs 'grow' around the chair occupant so quite frankly it could be anything (as long as it has very long arms and a huge head).

I am praying that it has something to do with this: