Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 08:10:08 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 03, 2019, 08:06:47 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 03, 2019, 04:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 04:32:34 PM
AVP & AVPR don't count.
Says you.QuoteConsidering how the Alien shrugs off gunfire in Covenant, in 2104
I'd say anything less than explosive tipped caseless
is pretty much ineffective at any other range other than point blank.
But that's David's Xenomorph in Covenant. It's not the Xenomorphs from Alien, Aliens, AVPR, etc.
They can shrug off non-explosive rounds in Aliens too.
But in AVPR....
Posted by SM
- Jan 03, 2019, 08:06:47 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 03, 2019, 04:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 04:32:34 PM
AVP & AVPR don't count.
Says you.QuoteConsidering how the Alien shrugs off gunfire in Covenant, in 2104
I'd say anything less than explosive tipped caseless
is pretty much ineffective at any other range other than point blank.
But that's David's Xenomorph in Covenant. It's not the Xenomorphs from Alien, Aliens, AVPR, etc.
They can shrug off non-explosive rounds in Aliens too.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 08:02:48 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 03, 2019, 06:32:57 PM
Not to talk down the predators abilities to take damage, but wasn't Wolf conveniently only hit on his mask and armored parts?
And you don't consider being conveniently hit in his mask and armor an ability?
QuoteI think i remember a lot of sparks flying around when he was shot.
Yeah, Ricky aimed for Wolf's head when Jesse got impaled by the Shuriken. Penty O' Sparks.
QuoteAlso in Predator, Anytime keept running when a human would have lost the leg or be crippled for life from that hit, but he tended to the wound afterwards implying it was serious and he lost a lot of blood.
Yep, Mac's machine gun gashed the Predator close range in the leg but it was still able to flee. Then Mac picked up the mini-gun. I honestly can't guarantee the mini-gun hit the jungle hunter, but I don't know how it could avoid it.. and that was before the rest of the team arrived and cleared out a city block!
I don't think he lost a lot of blood, but he was definitely wounded.
The City Hunter was wounded with Mike's massive shotgun in "Predator 2" and was temporarily knocked out by it, or just playing dead (heard both arguements) but the Predator could clearly fight on even with those whopping close range hits. It only gave those wounds medical attention once he lost his arm, and clearly needed to address that.
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 03, 2019, 06:32:57 PM
@ Voodoo/Old One : Peace guysNo need to get into canon arguments, it's gonna be a small narrative driven skirmish game set in the AVP universe, so even if you separate the franchises, AVP is game
We're just playing.
I think?
Posted by The Kurgan
- Jan 03, 2019, 06:32:57 PMSamhain's numbers look good for me. I would keep it to marines, basic equipt predators and regular alien warriors until they feel right during test playing before going on to the the more complex stuff like praetorians or queens, for now. Armor and special tech ,like a medikit, will not be taken into account for the toughness value, they will be a whole other aspect.
@ Voodoo/Old One : Peace guys No need to get into canon arguments, it's gonna be a small narrative driven skirmish game set in the AVP universe, so even if you separate the franchises, AVP is game
Not to talk down the predators abilities to take damage, but wasn't Wolf conveniently only hit on his mask and armored parts? I think i remember a lot of sparks flying around when he was shot.
Also in Predator, Anytime kept running when a human would have lost the leg or be crippled for life from that hit, but he tended to the wound afterwards implying it was serious and he lost a lot of blood.
@ Voodoo/Old One : Peace guys
No need to get into canon arguments, it's gonna be a small narrative driven skirmish game set in the AVP universe, so even if you separate the franchises, AVP is game Not to talk down the predators abilities to take damage, but wasn't Wolf conveniently only hit on his mask and armored parts? I think i remember a lot of sparks flying around when he was shot.
Also in Predator, Anytime kept running when a human would have lost the leg or be crippled for life from that hit, but he tended to the wound afterwards implying it was serious and he lost a lot of blood.
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:55:42 PMQuote from: Voodoo Magic on Jan 03, 2019, 04:53:38 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 04:50:04 PM
Right.
Because AVP & AVPR are a more valid barometer.
(Films that treat both creatures like garbage IMO.)
Not an actual entry in the mainline series.
Why not, I say!
For more clarification on canon, please click here: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=61204.240
You know why not.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:53:38 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 04:50:04 PM
Right.
Because AVP & AVPR are a more valid barometer.
(Films that treat both creatures like garbage IMO.)
Not an actual entry in the mainline series.
Why not, I say!
For more clarification on canon, please click here: https://www.avpgalaxy.net/forum/index.php?topic=61204.240
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:50:04 PM
Right.
Because AVP & AVPR are a more valid barometer.
(Films that treat both creatures like garbage IMO.)
Not an actual entry in the mainline series.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:48:12 PMQuote from: The Old One on Jan 03, 2019, 04:32:34 PM
AVP & AVPR don't count.
Says you.
QuoteConsidering how the Alien shrugs off gunfire in Covenant, in 2104
I'd say anything less than explosive tipped caseless
is pretty much ineffective at any other range other than point blank.
But that's David's Xenomorph in Covenant. It's not the Xenomorphs from Alien, Aliens, AVPR, etc.
Posted by The Old One
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:32:34 PMAVP & AVPR don't count.
Considering how the Alien shrugs off gunfire in Covenant, in 2104
I'd say anything less than explosive tipped caseless
is pretty much ineffective at any other range other than point blank.
You can see that in the vents with Vasquez and Gorman in fact.
Considering how the Alien shrugs off gunfire in Covenant, in 2104
I'd say anything less than explosive tipped caseless
is pretty much ineffective at any other range other than point blank.
You can see that in the vents with Vasquez and Gorman in fact.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 01:35:03 PMQuote from: The Cruentus on Jan 03, 2019, 11:18:14 AM
Predator's have never been hit with explosive tip armor piercing rounds from a Pulse Rifle.
In terms of strength, an Alien from a human host is probably at least equal to a Predator, but in terms of toughness, I think the Alien has the edge.
That mini-gun Mac hit the Jungle Hunter with... have you seen the rounds that go in that beast?
Including what I saw in AVPR and the effects of standard Earth ammunition against Xenomorphs, when I look at it collectively, I would say Predators have the edge when it comes to a stronger hide.
Posted by Samhain13
- Jan 03, 2019, 12:24:34 PMQuote from: The Kurgan on Jan 03, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
I guess I should have given some context to the numbers. The way they will work in the game is
that for every 20 points of strength the effect will roughly double. So to say a character with strength value of 70 is roughly twice the strength of one with a value of 50.
For the toughness value the effect will roughly double for every 30 points. Meaning a character with toughness 80 is twice as hard to bring down than a character with a toughness of 50.
The closer you get to 100, you start to reach the absolute human peak. Meaning perfect training, perfect nutrition, perfect genetic disposition, spending every waking moment training, prime age,performance enhancing substances etc.
somebody gets hurt and after injury how long somebody can go on despite the suffered injury.
Oh... I was just going to say the difference between regular human and trained should be higher but in this case its good.
For strenght:
Normal human: 30
Fit human: 50
Very trained human: 70
Very trained humans + PEDs: 90
Predators: 120-150 depends on the individual
Average aliens: 140
Predalien: 250+
Praetorian: 300+
Queen: 400+(?)
Quote from: The Kurgan on Jan 03, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
Toughness has a a double purpose. For one it is important to determinate the ablility to withstand damage but also general physical hardiness like the ability to ignore pain , to go on despite injury through experience and/or training. Basically how easy somebody gets hurt and after injury how long somebody can go on despite the suffered injury.
Aliens wins on both against a predator, but there is the variable on regards to the predator's armor, depending on how much they have can make a big difference on how much firepower they take. Go on despite suffered injury... predator can use their medkits to help.
For Toughness:
Normal human: 40
Fit human: 50
Very trained human: 60
Very trained human + PEDs: 70
Unarmored/naked Predators: 120-150 depends on the individual
Average aliens: 175
Predators + tech: 200-250 depends on how much armor they got
Posted by The Kurgan
- Jan 03, 2019, 11:20:56 AMThanks for the input guys.
I guess I should have given some context to the numbers. The way they will work in the game is
that for every 20 points of strength the effect will roughly double. So to say a character with strength value of 70 is roughly twice the strength of one with a value of 50.
For the toughness value the effect will roughly double for every 30 points. Meaning a character with toughness 80 is twice as hard to bring down than a character with a toughness of 50.
The closer you get to 100, you start to reach the absolute human peak. Meaning perfect training, perfect nutrition, perfect genetic disposition, spending every waking moment training, prime age,performance enhancing substances etc.
Toughness has a a double purpose. For one it is important to determinate the ablility to withstand damage but also general physical hardiness like the ability to ignore pain , to go on despite injury through experience and/or training. Basically how easy somebody gets hurt and after injury how long somebody can go on despite the suffered injury.
I guess I should have given some context to the numbers. The way they will work in the game is
that for every 20 points of strength the effect will roughly double. So to say a character with strength value of 70 is roughly twice the strength of one with a value of 50.
For the toughness value the effect will roughly double for every 30 points. Meaning a character with toughness 80 is twice as hard to bring down than a character with a toughness of 50.
The closer you get to 100, you start to reach the absolute human peak. Meaning perfect training, perfect nutrition, perfect genetic disposition, spending every waking moment training, prime age,performance enhancing substances etc.
Quote from: SM on Jan 02, 2019, 11:46:01 PM
Strength around 100 and see how it plays. What is toughness a measure of? How much punishment one can take?
Toughness has a a double purpose. For one it is important to determinate the ablility to withstand damage but also general physical hardiness like the ability to ignore pain , to go on despite injury through experience and/or training. Basically how easy somebody gets hurt and after injury how long somebody can go on despite the suffered injury.
Posted by The Cruentus
- Jan 03, 2019, 11:18:14 AMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 03, 2019, 12:35:55 AMQuote from: King geedorah on Jan 03, 2019, 12:25:24 AM
No way predators are physically stronger or faster. Their perks over alien are in tech and skill
and i dont think a pred can survive a lead bath or the freeze punishment from resurrection
I'm an Alien fan all the way, but Predators appear to take gunfire somewhat better than xenomorphs.
Predator's have never been hit with explosive tip armor piercing rounds from a Pulse Rifle.
In terms of strength, an Alien from a human host is probably at least equal to a Predator, but in terms of toughness, I think the Alien has the edge.
Posted by whiterabbit
- Jan 03, 2019, 07:38:39 AMI thought I was over estimating my numbers but the creatures are 8 feet and full of muscle or acid filled tubes of god knows what. They are a lot stronger at a base level than humans are just on sheer size. Both the alien and predator will be able to flip a car no problem. I mean chimps put us to shame as it is. Now imagine an 8 foot chimp.
Posted by Voodoo Magic
- Jan 03, 2019, 04:13:50 AMQuote from: TheSailingRabbit on Jan 02, 2019, 11:52:59 PMQuote from: Huggs on Jan 02, 2019, 11:49:29 PMQuote from: SM on Jan 02, 2019, 11:46:01 PM
What is toughness a measure of? How much punishment one can take?
I think you're confusing toughness with marriage and careers in retail.
And dealing with Voodoo.
I resemble that remark!
Quote from: Local Trouble on Jan 03, 2019, 01:40:37 AM
Have we ever seen a predator batter down a steel door?
He slamed a metal table in frustration to quite an effect.
@ the 1:13 mark:
