Hey, I have got myself to reading Alien/Predator novels fairly recently, less than 3 years ago, and I'm hooked ever since. I'm trying to be up to date with new releases, but I always have plenty of older stuff to check out, so I'm not discouraged when there is a streak of worse books, like with Titan releases right now. My first novel was Infiltrator, I bought it because I was playing Fireteam Elite, maybe that's why I have soft spot for it, even if after many much better novels I know that it isn't very great. I have to buy books imported from abroad, because our local publisher just started to give us their translations, and they are going in snail pace. They published only novelizations of the movies and Out of The Shadows so far, but at least they are doing great job with their editions. Just look at those beauties.
Anyway, here is my ranking of novels I read so far from best to worst:
1. Alien: Into Charybdis
2. Aliens: Phalanx
3. Alien: Cold Forge
4. Predator: If It Bleeds
5. Rage War trilogy
6. Alien: Echo
7. Alien: Inferno's Fall
8. Aliens: Music of the Spears
9. Alien: Sea of Sorrows
10. Aliens: Berserker
11. Aliens: Nightmare Asylum
12. Aliens: Criminal Enterprise
13. Alien 3 Unproduced Screenplay
14. Alien: Covenant Novelization
15. Predator: Hunters and Hunted
16. Alien: Prototype
17. Alien: Enemy of My Enemy
18. Aliens vs. Predator: Ultimate Prey
19. Aliens: Infiltrator
20. Aliens: Vasquez
21. Alien 1979 Novelization
22. Alien: Out of the Shadows
23. Aliens: Female war
24. Aliens: Earth hive
25. Aliens: Bug Hunt
26. Alien: Colony war
27. Aliens vs. Predator: Rift War
What are yours favourites, your most hated and what was your first A/P novel? Wchich one do You reccomend for me to read next? I'm thinking about Eyes of the Demon Anthology. Is it at least half as good as If It Bleeds?
there must be a movie in there somewhere!
THANKS for posting that list.
The last 3 are very obvious :laugh: and I mostly agree with your top pickings, but wonder why you didn't like Earth Hive that much?
And you need to read Aliens: Rogue, it was also very good IMO.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Nov 07, 2023, 12:02:19 AMThe last 3 are very obvious :laugh: and I mostly agree with your top pickings, but wonder why you didn't like Earth Hive that much?
And you need to read Aliens: Rogue, it was also very good IMO.
With Earth Hive I just felt like it wasn't adding anything to comic's story. It was like reading the same plot, or even summary of it, just without its amazing art. I usually have a problem with rating novelizations of existing stories. They just can't really suprise me. But good novelization for me should be better, deeper version of the comic, like Berserker, Music of the Spears, or Nightmare Asylum. And they were very good stories already as comics. I actually think that Female war was improvement over comic (and art in it was meh, so it's better without it ;)) but that story was weak from the start, so it still isn't high.
I will check out Genocide, I heard that it is improving over rather bare bones comic's story.
Oh, so you were comparing it against the comic! Now I understand your reasoning. I first read the novel and then much later I got my hands on the comic. I do agree that the comic is so much better cause of the visuals (the Perry's awkward inserted sex scenes in the novels always felt strange).
Quote from: Still Collating... on Nov 07, 2023, 05:30:28 PMOh, so you were comparing it against the comic! Now I understand your reasoning. I first read the novel and then much later I got my hands on the comic. I do agree that the comic is so much better cause of the visuals (the Perry's awkward inserted sex scenes in the novels always felt strange).
Maybe if I read novel first I would rate it better, but still, original comic is do good,ideal synergy between art and story, and in novel format it just siema lacking to me.
And yeah, Perry had a thing with unnecessary sexuality. I mean, weird sexual subtext fits Alien, sometimes it worked with nightmares that Billy had, but usually he was just adding "sexy" moments for the sake of it. The most cringeworthy part was in Nightmare Asylum with naked Billy distracting Guards. It was so out of nowhere, just forced in there, because Perry couldn't help himself :D Really awful moment in otherwise great book.
The Top 5 Worst for me:
1. The Predator Novelization (manages to be a bigger mess than the movie)
2. Predator: Forever Midnight (Hish-qu-Ten children mind-controlling humans to kill children, etc.)
3. Alien: Covenant Origins (Nothing happens here)
4. Alien: Cauldron (Aliens vs. Kids)
5. Alien: Steel Egg (Larry The Alien)
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 06, 2023, 10:27:13 AMsnip
Read Predator: South China Sea. A digital copy is available in this very sub-forum.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 09:40:00 PMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 06, 2023, 10:27:13 AMsnip
Read Predator: South China Sea. A digital copy is available in this very sub-forum.
Yeah, I must finally read it. I hate reading books in digital form and that's why I haven't done it already, but since getting physical copy is nearly impossible I must make an exception.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 07, 2023, 09:21:51 PMThe Top 5 Worst for me:
1. The Predator Novelization (manages to be a bigger mess than the movie)
2. Predator: Forever Midnight (Hish-qu-Ten children mind-controlling humans to kill children, etc.)
3. Alien: Covenant Origins (Nothing happens here)
4. Alien: Cauldron (Aliens vs. Kids)
5. Alien: Steel Egg (Larry The Alien)
Thanks, I now know what to avoid :) Though I like The Predator so maybe I'll also like the novel. And I think that it is a place for Alien book without any Xenomorphs, so I'm interested a little in Covenant Origins, but I believe that it can be dull.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 08, 2023, 09:13:27 AMYeah, I must finally read it. I hate reading books in digital form and that's why I haven't done it already, but since getting physical copy is nearly impossible I must make an exception.
I feel the same way about digital, then ended up reading SCS in two sittings. It's just that much fun.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 07, 2023, 09:08:32 PMQuote from: Still Collating... on Nov 07, 2023, 05:30:28 PMOh, so you were comparing it against the comic! Now I understand your reasoning. I first read the novel and then much later I got my hands on the comic. I do agree that the comic is so much better cause of the visuals (the Perry's awkward inserted sex scenes in the novels always felt strange).
Maybe if I read novel first I would rate it better, but still, original comic is do good,ideal synergy between art and story, and in novel format it just siema lacking to me.
And yeah, Perry had a thing with unnecessary sexuality. I mean, weird sexual subtext fits Alien, sometimes it worked with nightmares that Billy had, but usually he was just adding "sexy" moments for the sake of it. The most cringeworthy part was in Nightmare Asylum with naked Billy distracting Guards. It was so out of nowhere, just forced in there, because Perry couldn't help himself :D Really awful moment in otherwise great book.
God I forgot that part with Billy! :laugh: I remember form Nightmare Asylum Spears having a flashback when he was a psycho kid as an older marine was teaching him in the most awkward way how to "do it". I don't remember if she was going at him as a minor or what, but that scene was quite something.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 08, 2023, 09:13:27 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 09:40:00 PMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 06, 2023, 10:27:13 AMsnip
Read Predator: South China Sea. A digital copy is available in this very sub-forum.
Yeah, I must finally read it. I hate reading books in digital form and that's why I haven't done it already, but since getting physical copy is nearly impossible I must make an exception.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 07, 2023, 09:21:51 PMThe Top 5 Worst for me:
1. The Predator Novelization (manages to be a bigger mess than the movie)
2. Predator: Forever Midnight (Hish-qu-Ten children mind-controlling humans to kill children, etc.)
3. Alien: Covenant Origins (Nothing happens here)
4. Alien: Cauldron (Aliens vs. Kids)
5. Alien: Steel Egg (Larry The Alien)
Thanks, I now know what to avoid :) Though I like The Predator so maybe I'll also like the novel. And I think that it is a place for Alien book without any Xenomorphs, so I'm interested a little in Covenant Origins, but I believe that it can be dull.
I also believe that stories in the Alien universe without Aliens are possible. The problem is that when you do that, you are just left with the task of writing a really really good book cause you don't have the creature to pull the weight. And very few authors we have had in the franchise can do that.
I adored the short in Bug Hunt about the Pulse Rifles creation. The Colonial Marines Technical Manual has also great bits about a marines life.
On the other hand, you can have the Alien in there, just doesn't have to follow the typical formula. I loved Sigler's short in Bug Hunt from the Alien's perspective. Two of the three widely regarded best books in the franchise distort the usual conventions for and Alien story (Into Charybdis and Phalanx). A lot more creativity can be used in scenarios.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Nov 08, 2023, 10:06:51 PMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 07, 2023, 09:08:32 PMQuote from: Still Collating... on Nov 07, 2023, 05:30:28 PMOh, so you were comparing it against the comic! Now I understand your reasoning. I first read the novel and then much later I got my hands on the comic. I do agree that the comic is so much better cause of the visuals (the Perry's awkward inserted sex scenes in the novels always felt strange).
Maybe if I read novel first I would rate it better, but still, original comic is do good,ideal synergy between art and story, and in novel format it just siema lacking to me.
And yeah, Perry had a thing with unnecessary sexuality. I mean, weird sexual subtext fits Alien, sometimes it worked with nightmares that Billy had, but usually he was just adding "sexy" moments for the sake of it. The most cringeworthy part was in Nightmare Asylum with naked Billy distracting Guards. It was so out of nowhere, just forced in there, because Perry couldn't help himself :D Really awful moment in otherwise great book.
God I forgot that part with Billy! :laugh: I remember form Nightmare Asylum Spears having a flashback when he was a psycho kid as an older marine was teaching him in the most awkward way how to "do it". I don't remember if she was going at him as a minor or what, but that scene was quite something.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 08, 2023, 09:13:27 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 07, 2023, 09:40:00 PMQuote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 06, 2023, 10:27:13 AMsnip
Read Predator: South China Sea. A digital copy is available in this very sub-forum.
Yeah, I must finally read it. I hate reading books in digital form and that's why I haven't done it already, but since getting physical copy is nearly impossible I must make an exception.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 07, 2023, 09:21:51 PMThe Top 5 Worst for me:
1. The Predator Novelization (manages to be a bigger mess than the movie)
2. Predator: Forever Midnight (Hish-qu-Ten children mind-controlling humans to kill children, etc.)
3. Alien: Covenant Origins (Nothing happens here)
4. Alien: Cauldron (Aliens vs. Kids)
5. Alien: Steel Egg (Larry The Alien)
Thanks, I now know what to avoid :) Though I like The Predator so maybe I'll also like the novel. And I think that it is a place for Alien book without any Xenomorphs, so I'm interested a little in Covenant Origins, but I believe that it can be dull.
I also believe that stories in the Alien universe without Aliens are possible. The problem is that when you do that, you are just left with the task of writing a really really good book cause you don't have the creature to pull the weight. And very few authors we have had in the franchise can do that.
I adored the short in Bug Hunt about the Pulse Rifles creation. The Colonial Marines Technical Manual has also great bits about a marines life.
On the other hand, you can have the Alien in there, just doesn't have to follow the typical formula. I loved Sigler's short in Bug Hunt from the Alien's perspective. Two of the three widely regarded best books in the franchise distort the usual conventions for and Alien story (Into Charybdis and Phalanx). A lot more creativity can be used in scenarios.
That part with Spears i get (or I wouldn't mind it if i didn't know Perry's writing tendencies). It shows how Spears and probably all of artificial womb program's kids were raised and why he was so messed up. Anyway that was one of few moments that Perry's sexual fixation actually worked.
Yeah, short about Pulse rifle was one of handful good shorts in BH. From stories without classic Xenos also Infeno's Fall was great. It showed me how it can be done well first.
And You're right, tere still can be stories with Aliens that are unusual and original. Ones You mentioned are great, I also love Rage War trilogy, essentially epic space opera with Aliens and Predators :)
Liked Rage War as well for the scale and for trying something different (though it had it's problems, xenos with breathing gear for space travel was lame, they should be able to survive without it for those short trips) and Inferno's Fall had great parts, especially in the first half, but fell flat for me cause it tried to have it's cake and eat it too. Not xenos, but later described as with hard shells and hissing like xenos even though they came from the Pathogen bombing which made Neomorphs at the start so makes no sense IMO and I did have greater expectations for this book for lore coherency since a lore consultant was working on the book.
I'm getting ready to read Music of the Spears and the Berserker novelization finally. Loved the comics, wonder how the novels will be, but I generally hear people like them.
Quote from: Still Collating... on Nov 10, 2023, 04:23:43 PMLiked Rage War as well for the scale and for trying something different (though it had it's problems, xenos with breathing gear for space travel was lame, they should be able to survive without it for those short trips) and Inferno's Fall had great parts, especially in the first half, but fell flat for me cause it tried to have it's cake and eat it too. Not xenos, but later described as with hard shells and hissing like xenos even though they came from the Pathogen bombing which made Neomorphs at the start so makes no sense IMO and I did have greater expectations for this book for lore coherency since a lore consultant was working on the book.
I'm getting ready to read Music of the Spears and the Berserker novelization finally. Loved the comics, wonder how the novels will be, but I generally hear people like them.
Yeah, breathing gear was stupid, but its just a nitpick really. Lebbon did things like that before in Out of The Shadows, with acid guns killing Aliens for instance. That was the least of that book problems though. Anyway small inaccuracies and a little underpowered Predators in first book were really my only problems with Rage War.
I agree that there are problems with monsters and how Black goo Works in Inferno's Fall. And I don't like shoehorning Engineers at the end. But still I like it for trying to make a story without classic XX121s, its interesting cast of characters, great world building and usage of known characters. I appreciate it even more after not so great streak of novels from Titan in recent times, beginning with abysmal Colony War. Inferno's Fall really stands out among them as really great, character-driven story with some issues.
And I really reccomend Berserk and Music of The Speras novelizations. They add a lot of depth to their Comics counterparts and are just well written. Still they have the same problems that Comics had, with Aliens being very much a cannon fodder in Berserker and weird shit in Music, like ninjas and panthers Fighting Alien. I myself am Looking forward to read novelization of Labirynth,comic version is one of my favourities, and I enjoys Stephanie Perry's writing more than her father's.
Berserker and MotS are among the best novels.
Rage War was still great fun considering some of the issues it had with continuity.
Underrated Predators books:
Predator: Flesh and Blood
The Predator: Hunters And Hunted
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 11, 2023, 10:55:25 AMUnderrated Predators books:
Predator: Flesh and Blood
The Predator: Hunters And Hunted
I don't know about Flesh and Blood yet, but Hunters and Hunter was really fun, if a bit standard.
Quote from: SM on Nov 11, 2023, 02:11:54 AMBerserker and MotS are among the best novels.
Rage War was still great fun considering some of the issues it had with continuity.
It's been a few years since I read them, but I remember them being 5/5s for me and the best Bantam had to offer.
Quote from: Wweyland on Nov 11, 2023, 10:55:25 AMUnderrated Predators books:
Predator: Flesh and Blood
The Predator: Hunters And Hunted
Agreed there! Flesh and Blood wasn't quite as good as both Turnabout and South China Sea, but it was still really great. Hunters and Hunted was another really solid one as well. Far far far far better than the film.
Top 3
Predator South China Sea
This is well written sci-fi period
AvP Prey
Gave us the the Yautja concept and an honourable veteran in the Dachande character...but also a bunch of d-bag Yautja youngsters who went about massacring weak humans, so only gave us Space Samurai insofar as many real life Samurai and Knights were nowhere near as honourable as the romanticised version of them
AvP Hunters Planet
I really didnt mind the cyborg xenomorphs and it was fun when I read and reread it
As much as i love reading other people rankings it makes me think i have bad taste or something as Music of the Spears is always given a high ranking and i honestly absolutely hate it. Find it so so boring.
Quote from: davewesker on Nov 21, 2023, 06:15:11 PMAs much as i love reading other people rankings it makes me think i have bad taste or something as Music of the Spears is always given a high ranking and i honestly absolutely hate it. Find it so so boring.
Well, everyone has their own taste. I can see why Music of The Spears may seem boring or ridiculous to someone. It is one of weirder stories. I like it for exactly this originality, but can totally see why You may hate it. I for example don't like Earth Hive and Out of The Shadows very much, and I saw many people loving those. With Earth Hive its more complicated, I don't like a novel as an adaptation, but like the general story and original comic. But Out of The Shadows I just hate, mainly because of whole Ripley stuff, it just drags this book down so much. Only few ideas and general Lebbon's writing style save it a little.
Quote from: jacobo1122 on Nov 21, 2023, 08:38:37 PMQuote from: davewesker on Nov 21, 2023, 06:15:11 PMAs much as i love reading other people rankings it makes me think i have bad taste or something as Music of the Spears is always given a high ranking and i honestly absolutely hate it. Find it so so boring.
Well, everyone has their own taste. I can see why Music of The Spears may seem boring or ridiculous to someone. It is one of weirder stories. I like it for exactly this originality, but can totally see why You may hate it. I for example don't like Earth Hive and Out of The Shadows very much, and I saw many people loving those. With Earth Hive its more complicated, I don't like a novel as an adaptation, but like the general story and original comic. But Out of The Shadows I just hate, mainly because of whole Ripley stuff, it just drags this book down so much. Only few ideas and general Lebbon's writing style save it a little.
Oh I completely understand why you dont like Earth Hive. I myself love it but Inread it before I read the comic and I thinknyou have valid points. The weird thing is I like the sound ofnit when reading the Xenopedia plot summary but hate the actual execution.
Harvest is another one i really cant stand book or comic version
Quote from: davewesker on Nov 21, 2023, 06:15:11 PMAs much as i love reading other people rankings it makes me think i have bad taste or something as Music of the Spears is always given a high ranking and i honestly absolutely hate it. Find it so so boring.
Most of these rankings boil down to books the poster personally enjoyed more than others, not which books are superior literature from the pov of a serious literary critic, which I and most ppl here are not
MotS is great because it somehow manages to be engaging in a text format with a story that is centred on sound.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 22, 2023, 02:21:01 AMQuote from: davewesker on Nov 21, 2023, 06:15:11 PMAs much as i love reading other people rankings it makes me think i have bad taste or something as Music of the Spears is always given a high ranking and i honestly absolutely hate it. Find it so so boring.
Most of these rankings boil down to books the poster personally enjoyed more than others, not which books are superior literature from the pov of a serious literary critic, which I and most ppl here are not
Well, even Profesional critic's views on certain books don't mean that they are objectivly good or bad. Critics are also just humans with their own tastes after all. All it is about is exchanging views and having nice discussions.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 20, 2023, 12:22:11 PMGave us the the Yautja concept
That's my problem with it, personally. I prefer a more mysterious and unknowable bunch of space sadists to anything that codified.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 22, 2023, 12:07:01 PMQuote from: happypred on Nov 20, 2023, 12:22:11 PMGave us the the Yautja concept
That's my problem with it, personally. I prefer a more mysterious and unknowable bunch of space sadists to anything that codified.
The problem with Yautja was that at some point it was held by most of people as a guideline for whole race. And I think that Predators are interesting because of their individualism. Movies showed us that all Predators are different, both physically and psychologically. So if there is one, or one Tribe, that act like space samurais, that's okay. Worse if every Predators acts the same. I prefer Them as ruthless bastards with some not entirely clear hunting code, but it is good to have different ones once in a while. So I don't get people complaining about "stupidity" or different design of Predator from Prey for example. I mean sure, You can prefer different potrayal, but that what's makes him distinct and keeps things fresh.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 22, 2023, 12:07:01 PMThat's my problem with it, personally. I prefer a more mysterious and unknowable bunch of space sadists to anything that codified.
That's a perfectly reasonable preference, although I'd argue that the Yautja youngsters, or at least some of them, were a bunch of inhuman space sadists getting their kicks from slaughtering the Ryushi settlers and killing xenomorphs alike.
I like my Preds as space sadists and sportsmen, as others have said, all of them should have a unique personality IMO.
Quote from: happypred on Nov 23, 2023, 03:05:49 AMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 22, 2023, 12:07:01 PMThat's my problem with it, personally. I prefer a more mysterious and unknowable bunch of space sadists to anything that codified.
That's a perfectly reasonable preference, although I'd argue that the Yautja youngsters, or at least some of them, were a bunch of inhuman space sadists getting their kicks from slaughtering the Ryushi settlers and killing xenomorphs alike.
Sure. But I don't want to hear about their planet or culture or language to that degree, especially when it's done so uncreatively. "Mysterious" was the key word in my post.
I want to see a subversion of the trope in which an alien civilization thinks that all of humanity is a rampaging warrior race because they've only ever encountered our military forces.
Humanity solely as consumers is increasingly more accurate.
I'm still just perplexed as to how a creature with no lips and a small, forked tongue is supposed to pronounce all those TH and W sounds Perry gave them.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 23, 2023, 11:44:37 PMSure. But I don't want to hear about their planet or culture or language to that degree, especially when it's done so uncreatively. "Mysterious" was the key word in my post.
I don't recall anything about their planet, maybe I missed it...but we get glimpses of their language and hear the main predator's inner thoughts/voice, which IIRC is the primary lens through which we see their culture
People can differ as to whether that reveals too much about them
I seem to remember something that I thought at the time was on their homeworld but may have been a ship. We're talking like 1999 here. The stuff about mating, iirc.
I was literally two.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 24, 2023, 12:57:06 AMI'm still just perplexed as to how a creature with no lips and a small, forked tongue is supposed to pronounce all those TH and W sounds Perry gave them.
Never thought about that! Obviously, neither did Steve. That's why you don't portray the Predators as Klingons. I never liked the Perry's take on the Predators, nor their take on the Aliens most of the time.
Quote from: [cancerblack] on Nov 24, 2023, 12:57:06 AMI'm still just perplexed as to how a creature with no lips and a small, forked tongue is supposed to pronounce all those TH and W sounds Perry gave them.
They aren't pronounced as TH and W. "Yautja" for example is supposed to be "yach-taw" (Yes I realised just used a w in pronunciation but w at the end of a word is pronounced very differently) or something. I think TH is just T.
Still dumb but he thought of that much.
Can't they pronounce TH and W when they mimic human speech?
"What...the hell...are you?"
"Want some candy?"
"Motherf**ker!"
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 26, 2023, 02:05:34 AMCan't they pronounce TH and W when they mimic human speech?
"What...the hell...are you?"
"Want some candy?"
"Motherf**ker!"
Parroting vs naturally evolved speech based on the mouthparts.
I can whistle like a bird but I'm not about to talk like that.
Quote from: Local Trouble on Nov 26, 2023, 02:05:34 AMCan't they pronounce TH and W when they mimic human speech?
"What...the hell...are you?"
"Want some candy?"
"Motherf**ker!"
I always thought these were actually recordings that they then ran through a filter to get right. In the first two films and the second in particular they make a sound I always thought was a recorder starting, like when it confronts the kid with the candy or when all the Preds confront Harrigan on the ship.
Then again though I did wonder how Fugitive did it in The Predator without his mask. It never occurred to me they actaully mimic precisely because of what cancerblack says above.
Quote from: TheBATMAN on Nov 26, 2023, 07:26:59 AMThen again though I did wonder how Fugitive did it in The Predator without his mask.
Jungle Hunter did it at the end of P1 without his mask too.
Yeah it's them, not the mask.
They can replay human speech with their masks, and also mimic human speech without the mask
Quote from: happypred on Nov 26, 2023, 08:40:37 AMThey can replay human speech with their masks, and also mimic human speech without the mask
So it's from the wrist computer?
Or is it part of the "physical chameleon" (cloak is part of their body) aspect from the initial script?
They can mimic naturally but the mask speeds it up.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 07, 2023, 10:19:18 AMThey can mimic naturally but the mask speeds it up.
Yeah, without the mask it seems like they can only repeat words, but with mask they can record and play words and also sound of the voice.
I'll repeat myself, but damn, our local publisher is giving us beautiful editions of Alien novels. They just showed cover for upcoming polish publication of Sea of Sorrows and man, it's 100 times better than those early Titan's ugly-ass covers.
Has anybody created a list of connecting books? What belongs where, in an orderly fashion?
Thank you!
Link below has stuff leading up to and including Infiltrator and Fireteam Elite, but I'm not caught up on stuff from the last couple of years.