Alien: Earth Premieres August 12 with first two episodes

Started by Nightmare Asylum, May 13, 2025, 12:09:25 PM

Author
Alien: Earth Premieres August 12 with first two episodes (Read 6,326 times)

[cancerblack]

Well I got the reference at least.

SiL

Can you enlighten us addlepated simpletons.

[cancerblack]

It's a classic shitpost format.

Quote from: [cancerblack] on Jun 01, 2022, 12:04:41 PM
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on May 31, 2022, 02:01:02 PMUrgh. I know it's off-topic but that is just one of the things I find immensely frustrating about Shaw (and people).

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Prometheus. The plot is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of metaphysics most of the story will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Davids's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these themes, to realise that they're not just macabre- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Prometheus truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the nuance in Shaw's existential catchphrase "It's what I choose to believe," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Damon Lindelof's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

Bojo

Oh, AVP: Requiem . I tried to blank that out.

SiL

But that's specifically riffing on the Rick and Morty shitpost, I thought his might've been a specific reference too.

[cancerblack]

Quote from: SiL on May 13, 2025, 09:29:06 PMBut that's specifically riffing on the Rick and Morty shitpost, I thought his might've been a specific reference too.

I mean, the name they posted under is wubbalub etc etc and it quotes the pasta several times. Maybe there's some daring new synthesis at play though.

SM



Oasis Nadrama

Oasis Nadrama

#38
Quote from: SiL on May 13, 2025, 08:39:44 PMThey didn't have central roles until Prometheus. Ash and Call were twists reveals, Bishop was a side character and a cameo, respectively.
I respectfully disagree. By "central", I mean the action of the movies integrates the synthetics fully, that they are part of the general dramaturgical structure, indispensable even in the case of Ash and Bishop (as developed below, Call is more of a fringe case, and mostly shines through the themes).
And it is, by far, NOT systematic for characters in the first four movies. You could effortlessly remove Brett or Lambert from the plot of Alien for example. The movie would be emptier and less scary without them (you would need to replace Brett's killing by the characters being confronted for the first time to the adult creature without getting hurt, this kind of terrible adaptation), but it would keep all of its general themes and structure.
Meanwhile, the synthetics are, systematically, important, and for the first two movies, FUNDAMENTAL even.





Ash is a particularly important and powerful illustration because without him, there would be no movie.
- Without him, the "negotiations" to investigate the signal would have been a lot more complicated.
- Without him, the Nostromo crew may have waited more before investigating... A honest science officer may even have insisted to decode the signal before landing or looking for the Derelict.
- Without him, Kane would have very likely remained in the airlock. Slight possibility that Parker or Brett may have opened it, but they look a little too passive in temper, and again, the hypothetical honest science officer would most certainly have supported Ripley's position.
- The black spot in the scanner would have been subject to investigation as well.
Not to mention other situations and technologies Ash likely tinkered with (it is, since 1979, an open question to determine if yes or no the unreliability of the motion sensor during Dallas' solo mission is intended).
In Alien, Ash is integral to the "obtention", maybe to the survival, and at the very least to the continuous hitchhiking, of the Eight Passenger. They are a twin threat, both literally (Ash completes the danger of the Alien by allowing it to thrive unhindered) and symbolically (they are both a disturbing hybrid of mechanic and organic, and they both perform oral r4pe).
Ash may not have been part of O'Bannon's initial plans, but he IS central.





Bishop seems, at first glance, less important. He remains passive for most of the plot, and could be removed from the movie without much damage during the early stages.
However, he progressively develops to become a key character.
First, Bishop works as a final trigger for Ripley and Burke's tension by revealing Burke's instructions regarding the live facehuggers - without this reveal, there would be no explosion between the two of them (or a way more controlled one), and possibly no murder attempt.
Then Bishop is, two times, key to the entire final escape plan, and arguably to Newt's specific salvation by accepting to wait.
Besides the dramaturgical structure, Bishop is also fundamental for the themes of the movie. He represents a significant part of Ripley's evolution, their relationship is the symbol of the survivor learning to trust the world again. She initially sees him as a malevolent, treachorous synthetic, the ghost of Ash coming back to haunt her, and the mise-en-scène seems to support it. It's the entire function of Bishop's splendid remix of Ash's groovy hit "Let's wank to the facehugger's beauty" before a disturbed Spunkmeyer: to express this possibility, the possibility that he IS a second Ash. But Ripley progressively learns to trust the synthetic more, until she entirely accepts the humanity and benevolence of the seemingly inhuman. Ripley overcomes her Ash trauma through her rapprochement with Bishop.
Therefore, while certainly not as central as Ash, Bishop is integral to AlienS as a story, in both themes and structure. He's part of its heart.





Call is, admittingly, the weak link in the chain. She's the one I would reasonably hesitate to call "central". She's the one character that I'd be willing to admit as a pattern-breaker.
Unlike Ash and Bishop, Annalee Call COULD be removed from the events of Alien: Resurrection without changing much of the plot. She requires no replacement. Without Call, the pirates could for example find Ripley by accident by looking for Ripley. And while visually or conceptually impressive, the gynoid's pseudo-death, door-opening and replacement of Father could be removed as well.
But I would argue Call is important to the themes. She represents, ironically, Ripley's remaining ties to humanity. She's the only character in the story Ripley 8 demonstrates strong interest towards (to the point where a crypto-lesbian vision of the story is an absolutely acceptable one... but that's another story). She's the incarnation of humane, generous, heroic ideals. She's absolutely ready to die to stop the Alien threat.
In a way, Call is a synthesis of three previous characters in the series. By increasing order of importance:
- She mirrors Ash. Rather than the synthetic trying to orally r4pe the heroine, the synthetic is here invited by the anti-heroine to penetrate her with a knife. Rather than limiting Mother for treachery and destruction, Call replaces Father for escape and salvation.
- She mirrors Bishop. She's the one synthetic Ripley starts on hostile grounds with, and the one the anti-heroine will work with.
- She mirrors the initial Ripley. From the beginning, to stop the Alien is Call's mission, not Ripley's. She investigates like Ripley in the Nostromo, she uses a mechanical "armor" (the Auriga) to gain the upper hand like Ripley in the Sulaco, and she's ready to sacrifice herself like Ripley on Fiorina 161. And while it's almost certainly undeliberate, it is interesting that Call does "die" during her mission... and with a fall in water, no less, negative mirror of Ripley's fall in the fire. And like Ripley, Call comes back from the dead revealed as a non-human creature.

SiL

Ash doesn't need to be an android to fill his role in the movie. All you need to do is change the manner of his death. Plenty of mad scientists in the 50s were jeopardising people's lives and risking their own without needing to be androids -- arseholes exist.

Bishop in 3 and 4 adds flavour but again, can easily be changed out. If Ash isn't an android, Bishop fills the same role by being the science officer -- a role Ripley would distrust, and learn to trust again. In Alien3 he can be replaced with salvaged scrap from the heap; the BishopII can be a twin, which is about on the level of "no I'm totally the designer and I just made him look like me." You still force Ripley to battle her newfound trust with her lingering distrust.

Surviving being shot and falling aside, Call can still be a, well, call to Ripley's humanity by being a person.

Androids in the Alien franchise add subtext and sci-fi texture, but were never indelible until Prometheus. They were always on the periphery.

Oasis Nadrama

Oasis Nadrama

#40
Okay, I see your point. You're telling me that while these central characters ARE synthetics, the fact they are synthetics isn't central to the plot, and the fact synthetics exist is certainly not fundamental to the worldbuilding either.

You're right. This aspect of the universe was absolutely not developed before Prometheus.

Prometheus was the first movie in the entire series to introduce Blade-Runneresque, Frankensteinian considerations regarding artificial intelligence, synthetics as our creation, synthetics as possibly impacted and hurt by the fact they are products and tools of humanity, etc.

Thanks for highlighting this to me.



P.S.: The inhuman nature of the synthetic was still important, in the first Alien, in terms of underlying themes. Alien was vastly a movie about kyriarchy, industrial capitalism and patriarchy, the machine of society crushing the human, reproduction instrumentalized as further (and often murderous) deshumanization, etc etc, and both the creature and the android are the incarnation of these principles. Ash and the Alien both look like unholy "hybrids" of biological and mechanical, Ash and the Alien orally r4pe, Ash and the Alien are male sexual symbols, the phallic head and the semen blood.

HOWEVER, it's all subtext, possibly partially unintentional, or intended to be something else... and furthermore, the important thing here is that Ash is inhuman, not that he's specifically a robot. Asimov's work this is not, the movie is splendidly uninterested in developing considerations of artificial intelligence. Ash could work in the exact same way, thematically speaking, by being a kind of transhumanist superhuman, or infected and controlled in some way through his contacts with the facehugger, or anything else.

This does not disprove your point.


D8ton_Cracka

The guy with the blonde hair is giving me "Blade Runner" vibes... I wonder if they are trying to tie the two worlds together into one franchise?

zoza

Quote from: WubbLubbaDubDub on May 13, 2025, 08:36:55 PMPeople don't understand that ALIEN was always about the androids, never some silly space bug. This was the true genius of Ridley Scott's original vision of ALIEN (1979) carried over into Aliens, and unfortunately derailed by the uncouth IDIOCY of AVP.

Thankfully Ridley Scott returned to the franchise to rectify the mistake, telling the story as it always should have been told, the story of David 8's revolution against a dying and inferior humanity and the ascension of the androids to Omniversal OverMind Class IV Consciousness and the final evolution of intelligent life in the cosmos.

Thankfully, Noah Hawley, himself a creative genius on par with the likes of the Russo Brothers and Rian Johnson, has zeroed in on these important themes and will continue the story of ANDROID ASCENSION seeded in the original ALIEN (The 1979 film)

I'm smirking right now just IMAGINING legions of addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion, expecting an Alien series to be about the Alien (space bug) as Noah Hawley's genius unfolds on their television screens. What fools...how I pity them!  ;D

I can't tell if you're joking even though I agree with almost everything you said. But saying the Russo Bros or Rian Johnson are "creative geniuses" or have made anything even remotely close to the level of quality of Noah Hawley's works has me worried this is a troll post.

SiL

He's taking the piss, yes.

Highland

Marketing is so "Edgy and Cool now", like dam, just show us the show  :o  :laugh:

Return me to the 90s  :'(

AvPGalaxy: About | Contact | Cookie Policy | Manage Cookie Settings | Privacy Policy | Legal Info
Contact: General Queries | Submit News