That's not what they're saying. They don't use the word "universe" even once in that article.
That's true but they don't distinguish between them as separate universes either but they lump them all together.
Again, the lack of self-awareness is incredible.
The lack of carefulness and integrity here is astonishing.
I beg your pardon?
There is no confusion and division, people who disregard it have their own canon. What's confusing about that?
That's unfortunately not true, as years of experience have shown. What's so confusing about that?
No they don't, they do what they always do - they choose what they want and disregard the rest. They simply have an "official" outlet for that if they want to follow one.
Yeah, those desiring separate canons do that, not those desiring a unified canon. But for the general audience it becomes increasingly confusing.
If what you were saying was remotely true, this franchise and fanbase would have died out decades ago.
I mean the franchise and fanbase isn't in a good state and hasn't been for a long while, but what do you mean exactly?
Then why are you arguing against it?
I'm not, I'm arguing against the idea of separate canons, not a unified canon.
You are the cause of the canon debate, in case you were a little slow on the uptake.
Yeah, sure, so for years I alone have been the source of debates about canon in the entire fanbase? Come on. If anything, I'm the end result of the canon debates I was exposed to over the years.
When there are three canons, there is no debate.
You keep telling yourself that, it will do little to affect reality.
There is no unified audience, even if you had one singular canon you'd have tons of people believing what they want to believe anyway.
While I personally don't ascribe to this, there are people (obviously yourself included) who care about what "the official canon" is and want to follow it. Having three canons allows those people to do that, and is far more inclusive than having just one.
You're right, there is no largely unified audience because division has been raging in the fanbase for years. And yes, even with one unified canon you of course will have those choosing which parts of the canon they wish to acknowledge or ignore, and they have every right to, and they're still following the official canon, they're just not ready to engage with all the other material offered in the official canon. Having separate canons causes division and confusion and is far less inclusive and by definition it is exclusive.
Nah dawg, you're the one being the asshole by trying to force non-AvP fans to engage with AvP materials at the risk of being "wrong" or "picky eaters".
I haven't done that at all. If they wish to ignore it they are free to do so, but they have no right to push their exclusivity and personal preferences upon the rest.
There are canons for those "picky eaters", you can just choose not to engage with it and let it exist in peace.
Tell that to all those picky eaters who insist upon complaining and arguing with those who do not share their separated canon.
Again, what is your endgame in forcing people to accept AvP as a singular canon, when you yourself acknowledge that people can choose to disregard what they want?
First, again, a unified canon discourages canon debates and the confusion and division that result from such promotion of separate canons. When you have a unified canon, everyone is still following it, even if some choose to ignore certain aspects of it.
Yeah you have: "Like, arguing against three canons makes you seem like an uncompromising asshole - especially when, once again, you're already getting what you want."
Or I am offering both a solution and compromise with a unified canon in that there is one canon and no one should any longer encourage any confusion or division or debates on this matter, and if someone wish to only delve into certain aspects of that canon then they are free to do so and it will affect nobody else. Separate canons do not give the fanbase what they want, they only make things worse for the fanbase.
You keep using the term "division and confusion" as if people are somehow confused. Like, it couldn't be more clear.
Yes, because apparently people find a lot of things confusing about this franchise and choose to engage in causing division over personal preferences. Having to explain that there are separate canons despite that it looks like the exact opposite and then having to explain what connects to what and why this or that is suddenly not connect to that or this naturally does cause a lot of confusion and frustration for the audience and it can make many disinterested in following it. There's got to be a stop to this madness.
Choosing to ignore the existence of two other canons is your prerogative, just as it is for anyone else to ignore pieces of said canons. That's the lack of self awareness - you are literally doing that which you claim to be against, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
But I haven't ignored any materials, I've not caused separation, and I'm promoting unity with freedom to choose what to engage with while not unnecessarily interferring with the rest of the community, so what you're saying here is not really true.
You said the entire fanbase embraces the entire official canon. I'm looking for a citation of that.
Oh come on, I did not say that.
I'm not the one who presumed to speak for the entire fanbase, bro. And before you say you didn't, go re-read your post: "the entire fanbase that embraces the entire official canon."
You took that out of context. The full sentence was; "If some people insist upon only having particular products and concepts part of their personal canon then there's nothing stopping them, but don't bring this personal canon upon the entire fanbase that embraces the entire official canon." My point was clearly not to argue that literally the entire fanbase embraces a unified canon, but I emphasized that the picky eaters can't force their particular preferences upon those who embrace the entire table or force this preference upon anyone in the fanbase at all.
There you go conflating facts and opinion again. .
Explain yourself. Please.
Yes there is, you've chosen to ignore it.
No, the "evidence" you refer to hasn't been ignored by me but rejected by me for good reasons, as we've dealt with enough already, and you gain nothing by mindlessly repeating yourself about this.
That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. The owners of the franchises have deemed that franchise division = canon division, as is their prerogative to do so since they own them.
Not my opinion, it's a factual statement, anything else is a category mistake. The owners of the franchise (judging from their products, not unsubstantiated rumors) seems to have deemed that the four brands operate under a single canon, as indeed would be their prerogative to do as they own these licenses.
As stated before, products =/= official policy. Also as stated before, official policy can change at the drop of a hat, independent of preexisting products.
And as stated multiple times, I never argued that products are a definitive indicator of official policy, but they naturally do reflect official policy, and when they quite abundantly demonstrate the existence of a unified canon then the case is essentially settled, especially when there are no truly considerable arguments to the contrary being proposed.
We have no evidence, even from products, that newly released materials are part of a singular shared universe as opposed to three.
Which is a false statement; https://sites.google.com/view/xenoversecenter/xenoblog/2020-archive/exploring-canonicity-in-the-alien-and-predator-universe
In fact, we have the opposite.
Explain yourself or the assertion will be rejected without motivation.
Bingo! Finally, a glimmer of understanding!
So you agree that it's logically pointless to argue that there are supposedly "three separate canons" because (1) the three canons reference each other and (2) the existence of just one canon that includes all three means it becomes completely redundant and irrelevant to argue about "three separate canons"? Awesome, finally some progress I guess!
TurokSWE -Take it from those of use who have been here for nearly ten years or much longer, there has never been a period of "peace" like right now, in regards to "canon wars" since Andrew Gaska's article defining the continuity and canon. There's no more division, because it's understood we're either talking along the lines of what's official as Andrew Gaska outlined or our personal preferences.
If only that were true, but judging from my personal experience, it's not the case.
The only confusion caused here is me asking myself why you keep persisting along this line of thought? It will gain you nothing, you look foolish, presenting your opinions as fact.
Because I don't want to see any more of all this confusion and division in the fanbase, but all I want is peace, and I could care less how foolish someone may consider my approach, especially when I'm not actually presenting my own opinions as fact and when I'm constantly being misrepresented and misunderstood.
Agreed. I'll just address this one final time, its ok if you have your headcanon. Like I know everyone doesn't like Alien 3 and have their own take like using Neil's idea for Alien 3 but at the end of the day, Alien 3 happened. Both can exist. I know this feeling as I have similar feelings for another franchise, Terminator. I don't consider Terminator Dark Fate as the true 3rd movie of the series as its goes against what was established to what we all know and love in the series. I consider 1-Salvation+The Final Battle comic the true ending of the series as there is a coherent beginning and end to the series with a pleasing twist that I adore and feel that perfectly gives the proper send off. However I won't stop others from liking Dark Fate and I have to acknowledge that Dark Fate is part of the new timeline.
I agree. Although noting that in a case such as Terminator
, you don't actually have separate canons, but you merely have one unified canon which operates on countless different timelines caused by the time travel aspect which is the unifying theme in that franchise.
What I will not do is present my idea as true canon and convince others you are wrong and go against established lore and word of the creators. As much as I hate what Terminator ended up instead of following along Salvation and giving the time loop a proper end once and for all, I'm just a fan at the end of the day, thats how it is.
I wouldn't do that either, unless they are wrong.
Ridley says AVP Weyland and Alien/Prometheus Weyland are two different people and stories, thats it. It sucks as I actually like Charles Weyland, as unlike what his company has become, Charles is actually a selfless and brave person while who does want to leave his own mark in history and grow his company. He doesn't screw his fellow people over and was willing to fight Scar one on one for Lex and Sebastian to survive. Its antithesis of poetic tragedy really, his company ends up becoming the opposite of who he is.
As has been stated many times by now, Ridley Scott is first of all not in charge of the Alien/Predator
universe, and second of all Scott never even denounces Charles Weyland or AVP
from continuity, nor is he allowed to by Fox, and Fox does not share his opinions, which Scott himself makes very clear. All that Scott does is really just (1) ignoring things just because and (2) get on people's nerves. I agree with your assessment of Charles though, he's a much more likable character than the one who inherited his throne!