Free League Publishing Announce Alien: The Roleplaying Game

[SiL]

But WY controls everything!

That's how the movies go, right?

[SM]

I wouldn't know.  I don't watch movies.

[Xenomrph]

Was that not the case in some other things? I'm sure I remember a story where WY had to effectively bail out the military and them ending up as glorified PMCs?

It was the case in The Rage War books (set in the 27th century).

This, along with WY financing the ICC, is lazy, creatively dull, and has no basis in the source material.

Certain individuals trying to exert influence over the USCM via unofficial means is more interesting and fits with the existing material.

Especially since there were a couple of stories in the works featuring Olivia Shipp that would've explored the USCM and WY being too cozy and how she was instrumental in that changing and making the USCM more independent.  Which I think it alluded to in the first issue of the new comics.

I'm OK with WY controlling USCM in Rage War trilogy 'cause it's set so far in the future from original 4 movies that it doesn't really affect anything established before

I don't have a problem with it either that far in the future.  It's when they try to crowbar this shit in where it doesn't belong AND is really unnecessary.  There is no reason for this rubbish to be in there.

Okay, I'll bite.

Why doesn't it belong, and why is it unnecessary?

Like I'm not a huge fan of the idea of WY running the universe although I see it as an easy conclusion to reach given the trajectory of the first three movies, and corporate overreach is an important through line in the first three movies. I don't think "co-financing the military" is outside the realm of possibility given how fast Burke is able to procure an entire warship and a military officer he can conveniently railroad, especially with Burke being essentially a lone actor. It doesn't mean they own the military, just that they're able to exert influence sometimes.

[Local Trouble]

I don't have a problem with it either that far in the future.  It's when they try to crowbar this shit in where it doesn't belong AND is really unnecessary.  There is no reason for this rubbish to be in there.

Okay, I'll bite.

Why doesn't it belong, and why is it unnecessary?

Like I'm not a huge fan of the idea of WY running the universe although I see it as an easy conclusion to reach given the trajectory of the first three movies, and corporate overreach is an important through line in the first three movies. I don't think "co-financing the military" is outside the realm of possibility given how fast Burke is able to procure an entire warship and a military officer he can conveniently railroad, especially with Burke being essentially a lone actor. It doesn't mean they own the military, just that they're able to exert influence sometimes.

Was it ever established that Burke procured anything?  I always assumed it was simply the USCM's responsibility to investigate something like the loss of contact with a colony whether Weyland-Yutani had a financial stake or not.

[SM]

Quite.

The USCM are supposed to be more tied to the ECA as public service.

[Xenomrph]

I don't have a problem with it either that far in the future.  It's when they try to crowbar this shit in where it doesn't belong AND is really unnecessary.  There is no reason for this rubbish to be in there.

Okay, I'll bite.

Why doesn't it belong, and why is it unnecessary?

Like I'm not a huge fan of the idea of WY running the universe although I see it as an easy conclusion to reach given the trajectory of the first three movies, and corporate overreach is an important through line in the first three movies. I don't think "co-financing the military" is outside the realm of possibility given how fast Burke is able to procure an entire warship and a military officer he can conveniently railroad, especially with Burke being essentially a lone actor. It doesn't mean they own the military, just that they're able to exert influence sometimes.

Was it ever established that Burke procured anything?  I always assumed it was simply the USCM's responsibility to investigate something like the loss of contact with a colony whether Weyland-Yutani had a financial stake or not.

I'd have to check if the novelization says anything, but the movie certainly leaves it open to interpretation.

But let's look at the scenario. If the USCM investigates independently of WY, why is there a WY rep present on the mission (and why is that rep specifically Burke, a person who didn't even know the colony existed 2 weeks prior)? Why didn't they tell him to sit it out? What service is he possibly going to provide?
Why isn't anyone else from Ripley's inquest (or anyone representing those parties) present on the mission, if they all have a stake in the colony?
Why is the commanding officer on the mission conveniently someone that Burke can manipulate? I guess if someone more experienced had been assigned, Burke's whole plan would have been hosed?

The RPG isn't saying W-Y owns the USCM, just that they can leverage them sometimes (as evidenced by how quickly and easily Burke is able to insert himself into the Sulaco mission and get an inexperienced commander in charge, and Burke manages to apparently do it on his own). I always assumed Burke had *some* kind of leverage.
That's not even that unrealistic in today's US military climate where huge companies have enormous exclusive contracts, let alone centuries in the future.

Also worth pointing out that the History section of the Colonial Marine sourcebook at no point even alludes to WY "owning" the USCM or anything that extreme.

Is it possible SM only read the first page of the book and flipped out, rather than continuing to read and looking for context?

Quite.

The USCM are supposed to be more tied to the ECA as public service.

Where is this "supposed to be" stated?
Or is it headcanon?

Edit-- this is the closest the script gets on the topic:

Ripley stares at his like he's a particularly
        disagreeable fungus.

                                  RIPLEY
                   You son of a bitch.

                                  BURKE
                          (hardening)
                   Don't make me pull rank, Ripley.

                                  RIPLEY
                   What rank?  I believe Corporal Hicks
                   has authority here.

                                  BURKE
                   Corporal Hicks!?

                                  RIPLEY
                   This operation is under military
                   jurisdiction and Hicks is next in
                   chain of command.  Right?

                                  HICKS
                   Looks that way.

Burke starts to lose it and it's not a pretty sight.

                                  BURKE
                   Look, this is a multimillion
                   dollar operation.  He can't make
                   that kind of decision.  He's just
                   a grunt!
                          (glances at Hicks)
                   No offense.

The novelization adds a bit more to Ripley's dialogue:

"This operation is under military jurisdiction," she reminded him quietly. "That's the way the Sulaco's dispatch orders read. Maybe you didn't bother to read them. I did. That's the way Colonial Administration worded it. You and I, Burke, we're just observers."

I don't think that changes much, given what I said above. It's classified as a military op but Burke certainly doesn't seem to care, no matter what the "official" papers say.

"The source material", as SM put it (reads: the movie) certainly leaves it open for interpretation.

[SiL]

I think we need to start with where you're getting the notion Burke did half the things you're saying

He sent the colonists out to investigate the derelict but that's about it.

why is there a WY rep present on the mission

Because they think it's a routine communication failure and want one of their own to be there.

and why is that rep specifically Burke,

He likely got a ride on the Sulaco due to his relation to Ripley.

Why isn't anyone else from Ripley's inquest (or anyone representing those parties) present on the mission, if they all have a stake in the colony?

The people at the inquiry did have their own person on the mission -- Bishop.

Why is the commanding officer on the mission conveniently someone that Burke can manipulate? I guess if someone more experienced had been assigned, Burke's whole plan would have been hosed?

Burke is never shown to manipulate Gorman. Burke only hatches the plan to smuggle Aliens long after the shit hits the fan -- what plan does he have before that, exactly?

EDIT

Right, asking Bishop to take the Aliens back.

... but that's Bishop who agrees, not Gorman. We never find out what Gorman thinks of the idea.

[SM]

Burke even sides with Ripley against Gorman when she drives into the AP station.  Possibly for his own nefarious purposes, but he's not shown to be manipulating or having some conspiracy with Gorman.

Because they think it's a routine communication failure and want one of their own to be there.

Why Burke went is even asked and answered in the film itself.

[Xenomrph]

That begs the question, was Burke acting alone? If he was, how did he manage to insert specifically himself into the mission without any kind of leverage?

I don't think the movie establishes Bishop's role within the organization other than that he's part of the Marines. If he represents the other agencies he certainly doesn't act like it or bring them up.

Burke's plan was obviously to bring back samples - he tells Bishop to do it. Burke's plan from jump was obviously to get samples one way or another, and Gorman being fresh out of the academy would certainly make him more malleable. Like I said, I guess Burke would have been hosed if he'd gotten literally anyone else running the show.

I genuinely always thought it was obvious that Gorman's assignment to the mission was intentional and likely Burke's doing, specifically because he could be manipulated if the need arose.

No one said anything about a conspiracy with Gorman, it's clear Gorman barely knows what's going on.

The movie establishes why a company rep went, not why it's Burke specifically.

Edit— I'd think that if Bishop represented a bunch of government agencies that he would frown on bringing potentially hostile organisms through quarantine like Burke asked him to. Whereas if he was USCM property and the USCM can be leveraged by WY...

We don't see what Gorman thinks of Burke's plan, but I stand by my assessment that Gorman being so new would let Burke chance it.

Again, I don't get SM's anathema to the idea that the company might have some kind of limited, occasional control within the USCM, especially the way it gets portrayed later in the CM Sourcebook, and the way 'Aliens' can be interpreted.

[Local Trouble]

I'd think that if Bishop represented a bunch of government agencies that he would frown on bringing potentially hostile organisms through quarantine like Burke asked him to. Whereas if he was USCM property and the USCM can be leveraged by WY...

I thought Bishop looked pretty uneasy about Burke's instructions.  Even so, as the ranking company rep, Burke may have had a legitimate claim to the find which Bishop had no legal authority to deny.

Besides, he didn't say that he was going to smuggle them through ICC quarantine for Burke.  I'd imagine he thought the whole thing would be done by the book.

[SiL]

If he was, how did he manage to insert specifically himself into the mission without any kind of leverage?

Ripley could be his leverage.

I don't think the movie establishes Bishop's role within the organization other than that he's part of the Marines.

It doesn't really establish him as part of the unit. He's given no rank and doesn't sit with the rest of the Marines.

I genuinely always thought it was obvious that Gorman's assignment to the mission was intentional and likely Burke's doing, specifically because he could be manipulated if the need arose.

Nothing in the film really suggests or supports this. Burke seems as unimpressed by Gorman's inexperience as anyone.

Also nothing suggests that Gorman would be able to facilitate sneaking the Aliens through quarantine.

[Xenomrph]

Local:

I think you can almost go either way with it.

If his only choice is to smuggle them, Bishop is clearly following his instructions either way. I never got the impression he was "uneasy", but I don't think that's an invalid read of things either.

If there's an entirely above board way to get them through quarantine, then the question becomes "why would Burke try to smuggle them?" Or was he even going to? If one wants to play Devil's advocate I guess.

The point of this whole exercise is that there's way more than a little wiggle room to allow for "WY co-finances the USCM" to coexist with the movie, especially given the later context the RPG provides, and that SM might have gone off a little half-cocked.

SiL:
Bishop knows how to operate USCM equipment and the Sulaco squad has obviously served with him before (the knife trick).

Re: Gorman, I'm not really sure what else to say. I stand by my assessment of him. Could he have smuggled Aliens through? Maybe, probably not. Could he have been convinced to use official channels to do so? Yes, definitely. Could he have been lied to by Burke as to what those official channels were and how much claim WY has to things? Yeah, I think so. I definitely think Burke saw Gorman as someone he could leverage if it came to it - he tries it by proxy when he says Hicks isn't qualified to make command decisions. I definitely think he still would have played the "substantial dollar value" card had Gorman not been incapacitated, and expected positive results.

I apologize for not using quotes, it's very late and I'm phone posting.

[SiL]

But the film doesn't at all support Burke manipulating or intending to manipulate Gorman. They barely interact in the whole film. Besides which the film actually kind of paints him as a bit hopeless. Slimy, sure, but his tactics amount to going "c'mon, just commit crimes with me, please?"

It feels like you're really overselling Burke in the film. There's nothing showing him as some master manipulator.

[BlueMarsalis79]

I actually agree with you on this Xeno, Gorman's inexperience's so vital to any of Burke's potential plans that I have to believe certainly it is intentional to a degree for it to just be a coincidence paints the military as idiots overmuch for my liking, and the Marines have clearly served with and have a ongoing relationship with Bishop.

[SM]

But the film doesn't at all support Burke manipulating or intending to manipulate Gorman. They barely interact in the whole film. Besides which the film actually kind of paints him as a bit hopeless. Slimy, sure, but his tactics amount to going "c'mon, just commit crimes with me, please?"

It feels like you're really overselling Burke in the film. There's nothing showing him as some master manipulator.

Burke's an opportunist.  When they interrogated Burke after he let the huggers loose, it was up to Hicks to question Ripley's story.  Gorman stood by and said nothing.  It would've been in Burke's interest to out Gorman as some sort of co-conspirator if they were threatening to execute him - if only to sow discord.