I'd like you all to welcome Jeff VanderMeer. He recently authored the latest fan-hit novel, Predator South Sea China. And well, he's kindly offered to come here and answer your questions regarding the novel, any of his other novels and any future works.
So you know the drill. This thread'll work just like any of the others. Be pleasant and respectful and etc. Jeff is taking time out of his busy schedule to talk to you.
So...ask away.
Oh, don't bother being respectful and polite. Fire away!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I must say I'm very impressed with 'South China Sea'. Not only did you give as good human characters to follow, you gave us an interesting Predator and gave it a personality of it's own. It was a fantastic read. At the moment I have two questions:
What part/s of the story were the most difficult to write?
Reading back on it, is there anything you wish you had included or are you totally happy with the finished product?
Hey, thanks!
I think the hardest thing to do was to get in enough info about the characters so hopefully you'd care about them, without slowing things down too much. That's why you learn stuff later in the novel about some of them, because I didn't feel I could slow down too much before that.
I also had some trouble with the temple night battle scene. It's not very long in the final version, but it still feels too long to me. If I had something to do over, I might refigure that scene. The main problem being--I don't see Gustat or Horia being stupid enough go over to the temple and take on the Predator there. I think in a standard action movie, they'd all go there. But I wanted as much as possible to write a novel where most of the people in it try to act as smart as possible and still mostly come to grief.
I always think in Predator or Aliens books or movies you're doing the fans a disservice if you don't show them something about the Predator or Alien they might not have known before. So I would've liked to get in more stuff like the fact that the Predator uses the 'dreds for balance and kind of like a cat's whiskers. More views of the Predator fighting on other worlds, that kind of thing. But, then, again, you want to keep the story moving.
I noticed some readers had some problems with the alien virus/bacteria that winds up affecting Nikolai so drastically, so I might've messed around with that a bit more. I just liked the idea of the Predator being a sloppy carnivore and bringing in an invasive species from his last kill.
I loved Pol Pot the croc so much I had to resist making him a main character. But I think that was the right decision.
Thanks for the reply, the croc was pretty cool I must admit.
I'm aware that you have an idea for an 'Aliens' novel. I would like to know which 'Alien' movie is your favourite and how you would personally protray The Alien. Eg the creepy gliding wraith from 'Alien' or the screaming space bug from 'Aliens'.
Hi Jeff,
I just bought the book a couple of days ago and plan on reading it very soon. It sounds really sweet. Thanks for joining the forums.
I have a few questions that I want to ask you:
1. What do you think of the idea of female Predators? If there are female Predators, do you think they should hunt, just like the males?
2. Do you like the idea of a Terminator vs. Predator story? Im surprised DH has never made one in comic or novel form.
3. Do you have an idea for an Aliens vs. Predator story?
4. Would you like to see a Predator or Aliens vs. Predator story take place in Feudal Japan?
5. Should the Space Jockey appear in the Aliens vs. Predator universe?
Thanks.
Hi Jeff,
My name is Felix. A fan from Singapore. I just like to say South China Sea is one of the best Predator novels I've read so far.
I have a few questions.
1) What exactly was the deal with Nikolai? He seems to be infected with some sort of Alien virus and even though he was cut down by the Predator. You hinted at the back that Nikolai is still alive in some way.
2) What did you think of AVP: Requiem? Personally I though the first AVP was a complete disaster.
Hey. It's been a long day--sorry I didn't come back here right away.
Re this: "I'm aware that you have an idea for an 'Aliens' novel. I would like to know which 'Alien' movie is your favourite and how you would personally protray The Alien. Eg the creepy gliding wraith from 'Alien' or the screaming space bug from 'Aliens'."
I think the creepy wraith, because it seems more intelligent. I'm all for the most intelligent Alien possible. My idea involves a deep space Generation ship gone off the grid, something that crashed into it a hundred years before the present, and a whole bunch of stuff I can't mention. :)
Jeff
Okay, more questions to answer...
1. What do you think of the idea of female Predators? If there are female Predators, do you think they should hunt, just like the males?
>>>I'm fine with the idea. I thought of mine as a male, but who knows? I'd think they'd probably be pretty much the same as the males.
2. Do you like the idea of a Terminator vs. Predator story? Im surprised DH has never made one in comic or novel form.
>>>I'm not sure about that. Pred vs. Alien is about as much as I can handle. Terminator vs. Predator would probably make my head explode.
3. Do you have an idea for an Aliens vs. Predator story?
>>>I really don't. I tend to like the franchises separate, but I did like the first AvP movie. Thought the second one sucked.
4. Would you like to see a Predator or Aliens vs. Predator story take place in Feudal Japan?
>>>I can see the dynamic of that being very interesting from a technology and an honor point of view.
5. Should the Space Jockey appear in the Aliens vs. Predator universe?
>>>Sure. Why not? ...What's a Space Jockey?
Hey, Felix:
Those who haven't read the book...this post is gonna have spoilers...
Here're your answers.
1) What exactly was the deal with Nikolai? He seems to be infected with some sort of Alien virus and even though he was cut down by the Predator. You hinted at the back that Nikolai is still alive in some way.
>>>Yeah, an alien virus that wouldn't let him die, kept him on as a zombie or host. That was the intent anyway.
2) What did you think of AVP: Requiem? Personally I though the first AVP was a complete disaster.
>>>Compared to the second AVP, the first was a freakin' work of Orson Welles genius. At least it had an exotic location and some interesting situations. The second one should've been titled AVP: Dark Darkness in Dark Colorado Sewers...Did I Mention It's Dark and You Can't See Anything?
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Dec 17, 2008, 10:20:25 PM
5. Should the Space Jockey appear in the Aliens vs. Predator universe?
>>>Sure. Why not? ...What's a Space Jockey?
The Pilot of the Derelict in Alien.
Ah--didn't know he/it was called that. That's one of the coolest things about the Alien movie and that would definitely be part of my novel if it's allowable by Dark Horse. (This is assuming they ask me to do an Aliens novel.)
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Dec 17, 2008, 10:42:34 PM
Ah--didn't know he/it was called that. That's one of the coolest things about the Alien movie and that would definitely be part of my novel if it's allowable by Dark Horse. (This is assuming they ask me to do an Aliens novel.)
And for trivia's sake, there's a skull of one onboard the Predator ship at the beginning of the second AvP movie.
"Space Jockey" is sort of the name they were given by H.R. Giger and Ridley Scott when they were making 'Alien', but in other sources like novels and comics they're called different things like "Ancients", "Pilots", "Elephant Men", and in the more recent 'Aliens: Original Sin' novel they got a species name (Mala'kak, if I remember right).
I agree about the lighting in AVP: Requiem being stupidly dark. The cookie-cutter Dawsons Creek townfolk didn't help as well.
There was one plus though...at least we got to see the Predator: Homeworld in AVP:R.
One last question
1) Jeff, do the Predators have scientists? Did they create their own weapon tech or steal it from someone else. Whats the official line over at Dark Horse?
QuoteI think the creepy wraith, because it seems more intelligent. I'm all for the most intelligent Alien possible.
Great to hear.
Yeah--that was a plus, seeing the Predator home world. There were parts that weren't bad, but I felt the aliens were just like...I dunno...dobermans or something. Not very interesting in that movie. More so in the first.
Good question re Dark Horse. There was zero editorial interference in what I put into my novel, but I more or less seemed to indicate he picked up a lot of stuff from his prey. Personally, I think they have scientists, but they might be slaves of a kind. I.e., other intelligent species. Or in a symbiotic relationship. Now, that'd be interesting. Or perhaps blasphemous.
Yeah, re the Alien--I always thought in the first movie it was supposed to be intelligent, which is why the subsequent approaches haven't always been of interest to me. I thought both the Space Jockey and the Alien were intelligent. And I thought the next movies would (1) show us the alien home world, (2) expand on the intelligence and origins of the Aliens and the space jockey, etc.
They've taken on a more animalist approach, I think. Following Aliens, all the comics and EU presented them as swarming insects. But A3 and AR showed us Aliens that were like intelligent animals. A3, especially. The comparrison to lions in the dialogue and the host being a dog. I've noticed that these approach has also carried over into the novels a little. Particularly in Cauldron.
Then I'm just going to have to manufacture an alien that's more intelligent than that. LOL.
In your 'Aliens' novel would you try and give a new stage/reproduction method to the life cycle? Eg like the breeding method the PredAlien had in 'AvPR'? (Also, what are your opinions on that?)
Or the egg morphing from Alien DC. Always wanted to see more of that.
That sounds like a pretty cool idea re the egg. I'd like to write about aliens that have been isolated for a long time from the main "pack" so to speak, who have changed as a result.
Jeff
That would be interesting. You mean physically changed or behaviorally changed?
Didn't some guy, O'Bannon or something, have an idea that aliens were actually sentient, as intelligent as human beings. I think aliens can be more than dumb bugs, but I'd cap it at intelligent animals, I wouldn't make them sentient save for the queen maybe.
I dunno, War Wager--I'd have to think it through, first.
Quote from: happypred on Dec 19, 2008, 08:10:26 AM
Didn't some guy, O'Bannon or something, have an idea that aliens were actually sentient, as intelligent as human beings. I think aliens can be more than dumb bugs, but I'd cap it at intelligent animals, I wouldn't make them sentient save for the queen maybe.
See, I find it more threatening that they could be on par (or of higher) intelligently than us. Makes them more deadly. Especially if they're sentient.
If they're that intelligent, why don't they make use of technology in any significant way?
What's point when you're a natural killing machine?
Technology has all kinds of advantages that any intelligent species could utilize. Transportation, defense/protection, etc.
You mean an Alien picking up a pulse rifle and firing away?
An alien is a kind of pulse rifle!
Holy crap. I'll be that's it. They're the equivalent of M-16s or AK-47s. The space jockey was bringing a weapons' shipment to some planet to quell a civil war. And then it all went wrong...
Quote from: War Wager on Dec 20, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
You mean an Alien picking up a pulse rifle and firing away?
I mean, why are they always hitch-hiking onboard spaceships when they're allegedly intelligent enough to make starships of their own?
Why wouldn't they use guns, or vehicles, or body-armor, as opposed to running head-long into automatic gunfire?
(it's probably because they're not super-geniuses ;) )
Aye. That's one of the mannnnnyyyy different theories. The internet is just filled with them. Never read it myself but Aliens Original Sin apparently puts the Jockey's as being in cohoots with the Company.
The Alien is perfection at all the basics, and in numbers theres no need for technology. Infact, they're better than technology. Think of them as a deadly gas; they spread quickly and make their environment unsafe for anything else. That sounds like a perfect weapon to me.
Quote from: War Wager on Dec 20, 2008, 04:50:53 PM
The Alien is perfection at all the basics, and in numbers theres no need for technology. Infact, they're better than technology. Think of them as a deadly gas; they spread quickly and make their environment unsafe for anything else. That sounds like a perfect weapon to me.
I'm not disputing that, I'm disputing the notion that they're more intelligent than humans. :)
They can be. :) This is shown many times in the movies (minus 'Aliens' and 'AvPR I guess).
We had this 'discussion' with Steve Perry, and it was one with no end.
Well I guess the point is that on a human-based scale of intelligence, they clearly aren't more intelligent. They don't use tools, they rarely implement technology (and even then it's debatable if they understand the ramifications of what they're doing).
Other kinds of "intelligence", though? Perhaps even "alien" intelligences that we can't comprehend, not being Aliens? Sure, I could agree with that.
I'm not saying Aliens are as dumb as rocks, it's just that they use a different kind of intelligence that we don't implement, or can't understand. Tigers are very good at tracking and capturing prey, but they'll never be able to build a fire, or construct a wheeled cart, or use tools. They're dumber than humans in some regards, but implement other forms of intelligence that humans don't.
But keep in mind, "intelligent" and "cunning" are different things. :)
You could argue that Aliens 'know' what they're prey are going to do next. Eg Kane's Son hiding in the shuttle in 'Alien', Aliens setting an underwater trap in 'A:R'.
I would say, in terms of a novel, I probably wouldn't be able to get away with making Aliens intelligent anyway--but I could probably get away with making the queen intelligent.
I agree with Xenomrph that there could be "alien" intelligences that we can't comprehend, so it's almost impossible to compare alien IQ to human IQ. It's like, no matter how intelligent dolphins are, they don't have opposable thumbs, nor do they need them or want them. I know that's not exactly the same thing, just a rough analogy.
Take the Hive attack in 'Aliens', the Marines had all the technology yet the Aliens still kicked their asses. Same with the national gaurd scene in 'AvPR'. What I'm trying to say is that they don't need weapons etc to beat the enemy. In most situations at least.
Quote from: War Wager on Dec 20, 2008, 07:03:30 PM
Take the Hive attack in 'Aliens', the Marines had all the technology yet the Aliens still kicked their asses. Same with the national gaurd scene in 'AvPR'. What I'm trying to say is that they don't need weapons etc to beat the enemy. In most situations at least.
But thats different. They were up against humans that have never seen or even heard of aliens before. Put a group of experianced predators packed to the fullest, the outcome would have been way different.
And to stay on topic here......um....how experianced
is the predator? :)
I really think if you wanted to even the odds, you'd have to have the Aliens and Predators settle it with thumb wrestling. Winner take all. Best two out of three. Queen against battle-scarred Predator Elder. Space Jockey can referee. Humans as snacks.
Taking the "different kind of intelligence" a step further, I'm thinking about the evolution of brain function. Humans are soft on the outside, vulnerable to damage. Early man developed shields, then armor, and metallurgy became an important science, figuring out how to melt and smelt combinations of metals to make them stronger or more pliable. Theories of alchemy emerged and people dreamed of changing lead into gold, and finally scientists discovered that each metal has its own atomic number, that being the number of protons and electrons in an atom.
An alien with a diamond-hard exoskeleton might have the same IQ as a human, but they don't give a rat's behind about metallurgy, so they never pursued it, thus, their brains evolved differently.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 20, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
I mean, why are they always hitch-hiking onboard spaceships when they're allegedly intelligent enough to make starships of their own?
Why wouldn't they use guns, or vehicles, or body-armor, as opposed to running head-long into automatic gunfire?
(it's probably because they're not super-geniuses ;) )
Simple:
Every hive we've ever seen is ignorant.
That's what O'Bannon postulated and that's what I've stuck with ever since. The first Alien wasn't just deadly - It was a baby, had no idea what the shit was going on, and didn't have the best idea what to do.
Humans are smart, right? Planes and cars and microprocessors and all that?
Two things.
Firstly, can
you build a microprocessor? If by cruel chance that's your profession, well, I can't. And I don't know anyone else who can.
Secondly, if you took a person, chucked 'em in the wild, and watched 'em grow (assuming they weren't eaten/starved to death) ... do you honestly think they'd be anywhere near as intelligent as the rest of us? Sure, they'd have some pretty good problem solving skills and learn how to make basic tools, maybe even clothes.
But chances are they couldn't even make a fire, let alone do basic maths.
Which is exactly what we've seen every time we've had Aliens on-screen. The hive, the individual, has started fresh. Yes,
Alien Resurrected said there were "genetic memories", but the life and times of Bobby the Hobo isn't going to do me much friggin' good if I find myself in the arctic tundra, is it?
Additionally there's no way of knowing if that was
just the Queen that gets them.
Human intelligence - Our ability to build guns, vehicles, computers, etc. - comes from all the knowledge of past generations being handed down to the next. One generation learns some stuff, passes it down, the next generation learns more stuff to go on top of it, etc. The people who build microprocessors now are only doing so because they have the work of hundreds of other people as a starting point.
Until we get to the Alien homeworld, or see a hive that's had uninterrupted development for a prolonged period of time, it's pretty unfair to say just how intelligent they are based entirely on the goings-on of a few ignorant individuals.
On their homeworld they might act entirely differently to how they've been shown so far. They might be doing basic lab work, like in
Labyrinth, or the ant analogy could've gone to the limit and they're farming livestock, cultivating plants, making slaves, etc.
They might have architecture beyond the hastily constructed hive-goo-slapped-on-a-wall look. Hell, O'Bannon might be right. They might have writing or a weird non-ant social order.
I don't think they should be shown as starship-building intelligent, or anything near that, but the possibilities are certainly there.
Right--hive mind and all of that. A whale is pretty darn intelligent, but without thumbs and a language we can understand, they look just as dumb as a fish.
Perhaps there is a kinder, gentler Alien underneath that darkened dome--one that reads poetry and plays croquet... ;)
I think Ridley Scott mentioned something about an "alien society based on sadism", but I could be misremembering.
Anyone got the 20th anniversary DVD of Alien handy? :P
No I can't build a microprocessor, but I can operate simple tools, and can construct them were I placed in the wild and forced to fend for myself.
Granted, Aliens might not need to do such things due to their own natural abilities or whatever, but tools could only improve those abilities.
Aliens probably exhibit forms of intelligence that are foreign to us because they are completely alien creatures (I'm hesitant to say it's because they took a different evolutionary path, because that ignores the possibility that Aliens were artificially created I guess). However to say they're "as smart as humans" (or smarter) is pretty false. They may be "as smart as humans"... but in ways we don't comprehend, or in ways we don't personally exhibit because we aren't Aliens and they aren't Humans. On human standards of intelligence (technology use, tool use, morality, creativity, and other similar things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence).
People building microprocessors do it on the basis of humans that came before them, yes, but an important part of that is also understanding and applying that prior knowledge. You'd think that Aliens, which their apparent genetic, hive-based mental capacities, would grasp concepts more easily across multiple generations. And if Aliens are very old (judging by how long Predators have been hunting them, or the age of the Space Jockey ship and its cargo, not to mention other expanded universe sources that explicitly spell out that Aliens as a species are extremely old and as individuals are extremely long-lived) they certainly don't exhibit human-style intellect or reasoning.
The point is, saying they're "as smart as humans" is a nonsensical statement. :P They're smart in different ways, similar to how a lion or dolphin is smart in ways that apply to its way of life.
I don't think that they are smarter then humans or as smart as us. They have shown that they have intelligence and strategy and they are certainly not dumb, but not very smart either.
Someone mentioned that we only saw Aliens that were baby's, sure they were young but when we look at aliens, the hive was already a couple of days or even weeks there before the marines arrived, giving the aliens plenty of time to feel home there. Still, they need hours to get a way to the marines when they placed the robot guns, which they ran right into before. They didn't found the girl, or found her but didn't got her.
So the theory of the "It had no idea where it was or what was going on" isn't really true here.
I like the idea of Intelligent Aliens, but lets not make them any more intelligent then they are or at least what the movies had shown.
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 21, 2008, 01:20:43 AM
No I can't build a microprocessor, but I can operate simple tools, and can construct them were I placed in the wild and forced to fend for myself.
Granted, Aliens might not need to do such things due to their own natural abilities or whatever, but tools could only improve those abilities.
Aliens have proved more than capable of operating doors and the like, if shown how. When have they ever really been in a situation where they'd
need to make a tool? Aside from long-ranged weapons to help them with the pesky humans across the room, we haven't really seen a situation where tool-making would be necessary.
QuoteHowever to say they're "as smart as humans" (or smarter) is pretty false.
As is flat-out saying they aren't.
QuoteYou'd think that Aliens, which their apparent genetic, hive-based mental capacities, would grasp concepts more easily across multiple generations.
Again - How are the life and times of Bobby the Hobo going to help me in the Arctic tundra? The
only Aliens we've
ever seen have been in hives that are mere days old, artificially created, or constantly manipulated in minimum surroundings.
Until we see Aliens on their homeworld, or as I said, in a hive that's been around a long time with no interruption or gross interference like AvP, you can't flat-out say that they're lacking tool making capabilities, or reasoning skills, or anything like that.
It's taking you away from civilisation at birth, chucking you in the wild, then basing the entirety of human intelligence based on how you act.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Dec 21, 2008, 03:43:08 AM
Someone mentioned that we only saw Aliens that were baby's, sure they were young but when we look at aliens, the hive was already a couple of days or even weeks there before the marines arrived, giving the aliens plenty of time to feel home there.
And they did. They got in through the suspended ceilings and subflooring that the marines didn't even know about. They operated doors.
QuoteStill, they need hours to get a way to the marines when they placed the robot guns, which they ran right into before.
Running into guns is a tactic humans had been using well before anyone even thought up of an Alien. You test the defenses. If they don't break, then you cut your losses and pull back and find an alternate route - All things the Aliens did. There's never any indication of how many Aliens are actually killed by the guns - The film itself implies not a whole heap.
QuoteThey didn't found the girl, or found her but didn't got her.
There was barely enough room for Ripley to get into where she was hiding, let alone an Alien.
Like I said, I'm not trying to say they can build spaceships.
But using the movies as a limit to their intelligence is grossly unfair considering the circumstances we find them.
QuoteThe only Aliens we've ever seen have been in hives that are mere days old, artificially created, or constantly manipulated in minimum surroundings.
Until we see Aliens on their homeworld, or as I said, in a hive that's been around a long time with no interruption or gross interference like AvP, you can't flat-out say that they're lacking tool making capabilities, or reasoning skills, or anything like that.
Sure I can, there's a whole lot of novels and comics and games that show exactly what they're capable of. Hell, the sources that show them being "the smartest" are 'Aliens: Labyrinth' and the AvP2 PC game. :)
QuoteThey operated doors.
Not in 'Aliens' they didn't. They banged against the pressure doors, and they banged against the door Vasquez was welding shut in Ops. The only door that seemed to open for one was the one on the Dropship before Ferro got killed, and there's plenty of explanations for why the door opened (and if nothing else, it begs the question why they didn't open doors anywhere else).
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 21, 2008, 08:23:13 AM
Sure I can, there's a whole lot of novels and comics and games that show exactly what they're capable of.
Oh f**k the EU ...
No offense, Mr VanderMeer :P
QuoteHell, the sources that show them being "the smartest" are 'Aliens: Labyrinth'
Which shows them as biochemists. Which requires a fair friggin' greater deal of intelligence than tool making.
QuoteThey banged against the pressure doors,
Sealed.
Quoteand they banged against the door Vasquez was welding shut in Ops.
Yeah, I'm thinking the fact they just, as you said,
welded the door shut may have had something to do with that. Unless you can still open a door normally after someone's sealed it shut ... ? Personal experience speaks to the contrary.
Quote(and if nothing else, it begs the question why they didn't open doors anywhere else).
Burke. He backs up towards the door, and then it opens. He doesn't press the button.
QuoteBurke. He backs up towards the door, and then it opens. He doesn't press the button.
Actually he does hit the button in the movie. :) In the novelization, an Alien forces the door open and stings him with its tail.
QuoteOh f**k the EU ...
Hey, just sayin'. ;) Especially since we're talking in the "Literature" forum and all, I'd think it'd be fair game. :)
This is a pretty fascinating discussion, and very useful if I wind up doing an Aliens novel.
JV
And bearing in mind, like SiL said, all the Aliens we've observed in the film are young and people are arguing that it shows intelligence, but consider how long it takes a human being to learn things such as basic tool operation, communication and etc.
So what you're saying is the Aliens movies are basically what Alien parents would show their kids. Nursery rhymes for aliens. ;)
hi.
didn't that info was transmitted trough their genes(hive mind) or they actually learn like us (independent of any other human)? ???
I'm all for the idea that they inherit memories from their hosts. This makes sense in all movies.
Quote from: War Wager on Dec 21, 2008, 08:33:47 PM
I'm all for the idea that they inherit memories from their hosts. This makes sense in all movies.
I don't like that idea because how would the Aliens even comprehend what they "inherited" from their hosts? That's part of the point of the Aliens, they're alien, so they think and act differently from us. We can't comprehend how they think, and therefore they wouldn't be able to comprehend how we think either.
Learning things and then having "genetic memory" between Aliens and subsequent generations? Sure, I could buy that. But an Alien that would know how to play chess because it was born from a chess Grand Master? Yeah, that's
really really stretching it for me.
Haha, not that much inhertance, I mean about their envioroment. Kane's Son navigated the Nostromo pretty well, as did the creatures in 'Aliens' and 'Alien3'.
Eh, I dunno if that was really because of interitence of memories, or if it was instinct based on the Alien's natural abilities. The Alien in 'Alien3' knew how to get around in the air vents and shafts and whatnot quite well, and I doubt Spike (or an ox) had ever been in those areas.
However, if you had a cougar that knew how to climb on walls and was angry and hungry, I imagine it'd have gotten around just as well, memories or not.
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Dec 17, 2008, 10:20:25 PM
I really don't. I tend to like the franchises separate, but I did like the first AvP movie. Thought the second one sucked.
Believe me, your not the only one. :D
Quote from: Xenomrph on Dec 21, 2008, 09:46:55 PM
Eh, I dunno if that was really because of interitence of memories, or if it was instinct based on the Alien's natural abilities. The Alien in 'Alien3' knew how to get around in the air vents and shafts and whatnot quite well, and I doubt Spike (or an ox) had ever been in those areas.
However, if you had a cougar that knew how to climb on walls and was angry and hungry, I imagine it'd have gotten around just as well, memories or not.
When the Alien goes after David in 'Alien3', and he manages to close the door in time, the thing appears right behind him minutes later. I'm sure Spike would have known those corridors pretty well.
Why?
The dog had a cameo role in three scenes. There's no indication it would have ever gone out into the ducts, let alone known them well.
On top of that, the Alien came down behind David via the vents. You think Spike would've known them well?
He could have. It's all about personal opinions I guess, it works for me.
Yeah, but evidence points to the contrary.
Namely, AvP. Those Aliens were getting around the pyramid just fine, even with it shifting every ten minutes. The humans had only seen the place for little bit before being hugged, and had no idea of the layout.
You guys are thinking about this "sight" concept in a much too limited perspective. Possibly the Aliens could get information on layouts of the area from their host's memories, but I think that is a bit off. You're judging their comprehensions of these sites by a visual memory alone. Aliens have no visible eyes (just the eye sockets within the skull). They could be using all kinds of different body systems to "see" the layout of the area. Scents, Echoic signals, mental communication signals, w/e. I believe there is far more than simply sight to how these magnificent beasts understand their surroundings. And I know they have at least some kind of mental communication frequency, due to the fact that the Queen can communicate with them, and not have to scream anything (as seen in Aliens). There is far too much complexity to their body structure, to limit them to only one kind of "sight".
Its funny how no matter what you do or how hard you try, people will always find a way to go off topic. :D
Sorry just had to make the comment, and it did sorta go on into a rant.
Dont be sorry, we all go off topic all the time....ALL the time, trust me. You just gotta be sure not to make 3 pages talking about something thats completly different from the topic. ;)
I'm sure Jeff's taking in all this ranting.
Well the man's novel was phenomenal. I'm hoping to be that good writing my Alien story. Wanted to propose the concept to Dark Horse, but if it's unsolicited, they will not read it.
Jeff, have you heard from Dark Horse if there are any upcoming Predator novel projects in 2009?
Just curious.
Hey--sorry. I was offline for the holidays.
My understanding--and don't quote me--is that DH is in the process of going back to 20th Century Fox for the right to do more in the Aliens and Predator series, novel-wise. I guess they buy a certain number of rights to do books at a time.
Cheers, and happy holidays!
Jeff
PS Dachande98--thanks much for the compliment.
No prob Jeff. Always happy to see some great writing that does the Aliens and Predators justice.
Merry Christmas, Jeff! From a fan from Asia as well.
Maybe you could write another Predator novel told from the perspective of Pol Pot. The friendly gator. Ah...the stories this fella can tell.
Quote from: Corporal Hicks on Dec 21, 2008, 07:44:11 PM
And bearing in mind, like SiL said, all the Aliens we've observed in the film are young and people are arguing that it shows intelligence, but consider how long it takes a human being to learn things such as basic tool operation, communication and etc.
Funny, i thought they have genetic memories and given that they are around for thousands of years (AvP) i think they had plenty of time to gather experience in all categories.
So i think that statement of yours isn't really a comparison here, thank you Alien Rez :)
...They've been in a pyramid for thousands of years. Being hunted by Predators. That's all that hive has ever known - Wake up, be killed by Predators, Queen goes back to sleep, repeat. That's it. The hell else are they going to learn in that setup?
Yeah--I could've written a whole novel about the croc.
Thanks for giving my novel this thread, btw. I've enjoyed reading the whole discussion--not just about the novel but about Aliens and Preds in general.
Happy Holidays!
Jeff
Although christmas passed by, and I'm really interested in the whole pred vs croc thing, as a late christmas treat, can you tell me how badly the pred messes up the croc? Thats all I really want to know. :)
Not wanting to ruin anything pred boy, but it seemed the other way around to me. lol
Yeah, I imagine the croc would have taken the Predator down.
Not that it wouldn't have been a righteous fight, but I think the croc would win in the end.
Wha? The predator gets his ass kicked? Gahhh, that sucks so hard.
Where are the days where a Predator could take down 10 armed to the teeth drug dealers and special forces teams almost effortlessly, where are the days where a predator could rip out a mans spine with his bare hands and lift up 200 pound people with one hand...
Now it cant even handle a f**king crocodile. Why come to earth in the first place, it seems like its getting its ass kicked by everything now. I guess the end of the novel is that the snake that is on the cover kicks the Preds ass.
Quote from: Johnny Handsome on Dec 30, 2008, 02:41:56 AM
Where are the days where a Predator could take down 10 armed to the teeth drug dealers and special forces teams almost effortlessly,
Never. It never took down 10 armed drug dealers in a single go (And when it did take down a group, it was through ambush and invisibility, first in an enclosed space, then in an area where it could stay invisible AND out of line of sight).
And when did it ever take down ten special forces soldiers effortlessly? There aren't ten skinned bodies, Dutch's team only had seven people, Dillon included, and
effortlessly? It got shot in the leg by Mac and hit by several grenades from Dutch. Then Dutch dropped a log on its damned head and it blew itself up.
Hell, even then, it never attacked Dutch's team en-masse. It picked them off one by one.
QuoteNow it cant even handle a f**king crocodile.
So? Crocodiles weigh more than people, are stronger, and have a propensity to attack people, y'know, in the water. A place where most humanoids aren't the most graceful and effective.
Friggin' hell.
Yea It's not like the Pred got his ass owned. The croc had the advantage of water, quicker mobility in the water, and weight with massive jaw power. The Pred wasn't wrecked by the croc, but the croc did manage to get a few hits in. This Predator was by no means a dumb ass newbie like the preds in AVP 1, he was experienced, and capable. Just in some elements, no matter how well equipped the hunter is, the one that is in its natural element can have the advantage.
Quote from: SiL on Dec 30, 2008, 04:51:04 AM
Hell, even then, it never attacked Dutch's team en-masse. It picked them off one by one.
I think the way he killed everyone except for Dutch could be described as pretty effortlessly, yes he got hit in the leg but seriously, it looked like he was playing with Dutch's squad
Dutch killed anytime because anytime either decided to have some bare-handed fun or decided hand to hand combat was more honorable for the prey that survived the longest ... if anytime wanted to he could've just cannoned Dutch
He still didn't have an effortless time trying to get to him when he set his traps and made his makeshift weapons.
Yes it was hard for the predator to find Dutch once Dutch figured out he could hide using mud
but the rest of the team looked like a walk through the park for anytime
and he wasn't seriously injured until the log fell on him
He still got shot and caught in the net.
Was it easy? Relatively. But "effortless" is way off the mark.
But this is all way, way of topic. Sorry!
Re the crocodile--I saw the Predator as shaking the croc off like it was a nuisance. It wasn't until it had multiple other injuries that the croc became a danger. But remember--an African croc can be as long as 28 feet!!!!! That's a huge freakin' animal. If you're waist deep in water with it...eeeeek.
Anyway, just wanted to say--have a great New Year's Eve and New Year's, since I'm offline until the 2nd. Thanks so much for entertaining me with this great discussion.
Jeff
Happy New Year to you, too!
Hey Jeff,
I was just wondering...(not sure if this has been asked)
Did you by any chance get any of your ideas from the comics:
PREDATOR: "Dark River" ?
OR
PREDATOR: "Rite of Passage" ?
Thanks, great work on the novel. ;)
Nope--I did read some of the comics, but I didn't read those two, I'm fairly sure. I would imagine some of the ideas have appeared in other Predator works.
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Jan 07, 2009, 04:20:53 PM
Nope--I did read some of the comics, but I didn't read those two, I'm fairly sure. I would imagine some of the ideas have appeared in other Predator works.
Alright, just wondering cause the storyline was VERY similar. I liked it. Okay then, well thanks Jeff.
You mean, there was a crocodile in it? And a guy resurrected by an alien virus?
Jeff
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Jan 10, 2009, 05:06:40 PM
You mean, there was a crocodile in it? And a guy resurrected by an alien virus?
Jeff
Yeah, that. Among other scenes. I don't know, it just made me remember it.
You know Jeff, you dont have to put 'Jeff' in all of your posts, we already know its you. ;)
Haha, yeah, but if we had an impersinator try to play as Jeff and he didn't put "-Jeff" at the end, then we would know he's a fake.
It really doesn't matter. When I started I would put "BLABLABLALBALA - Chris " for my stuff. :D
@ Jeff, He is right though, you don't have to if you don't want to. Makes no difference. ;)
Well I rather enjoy knowing Im talking to the real author, rather than someone faking it. So I don't mind the Jeff thing.
Back to the novel, one aspect I did feel that was off the wall, was the alien virus that made him inhuman. But you're one line was so spectacular, that it made me reconsider it. "He felt, as he walked, like a God might: endlessly dissipating and regenerating." Now that was something that just made me have to put the novel down, and ponder the line. I really hope you write more in the Alien and Predator universe.
Quote from: dachande89 on Jan 10, 2009, 05:59:14 PM
"He felt, as he walked, like a God might: endlessly dissipating and regenerating."
That's deep man. Real deep. *snap* *snap* 8)
Quote from: dachande89 on Jan 10, 2009, 05:59:14 PM
I really hope you write more in the Alien and Predator universe.
Me too, you have a good fix for it. ;)
Jeff, whose the editor now? Is it Rob still?
Yeah--it's Rob.
That's pretty effing hilarious, if those comics included those elements. Somehow I doubt it was done quite the same way, if so.
JEEEEEFFFFFF
Well 'Dark River' had an alien virus thing, but it ended up being a total lie and didn't actually exist.
And I think 'Rite of Passage' had the crocodile.
Ok. just finished you book jeff and i gotta say, definitely the best one out of all the dark horse alien/predator novels in my opinion. I enjoyed it greatly. I read Aliens: NO EXIT (which i thought was utter trash) and wasn't sure about south china sea at first, but damn i was wrong.
loved Pol Pot, loved how you wrote the predator reminiscing about past hunts on alien worlds,
and loved how you made me genuinely care for the characters. From what I've read from your interview and you posts, i think you could make a damn fine aliens novel.
One thing that got me curious was when the predator was thinking about a prey species that was a "giant living spaceship" or something like that. was there any backstory you had in your head about this certain life form? It kinda stuck out for me in the novel.
Jeff,
Just got done reading South China Sea. I must say that this was my first Predator novel and I didn't know quite what to expect. However, I was blown away at how really good this book was. I hope to see more Predator novels from you in the future.
Just a couple of questions I was hoping you could give a bit more detail on.
1) Did you have a name in mind for this Predator? Some of the more recent movies have stuck a name to their Predators (i.e. Wolf, Scar, Broken Tusk, etc...). It just helps give them a bit more personality I think.
2) Maybe I just missed this as I was reading through, but was their any back story for Onyx? How did this guy know so much about the Predators? Was it simply b/c he was a government agent or did you simply want to keep his back story unrevealed?
3) Any general ideas for a future Predator novel? If so would you keep the battleground on earth or take it elsewhere in space?
Thanks again for the great read. Looking forward to more from you down the road.
Russ
Oh that reminds me, the reference to onyx, the cigars, was he supposed to be Dutch? Cause I thought you were inferring that he may have been Dutch since he had so much knowledge on Predators.
Yeah I pretty much concluded that Onyx was Dutch.
Hello mr. Vandermeer, I just wanted to say that south china sea was a good read and are you considering another book in the alien or predator series?
Hi Jeff I'm still reading the book it's pritty good so far but it took me a while to start liking the charecters. I can't wait to finish it and you should also do some more pred books
Hey--I'm really sorry for not being on here for so long. Tons of deadlines. To answer a few things, heh, yeah, I did always think of Onyx as being Dutch, which is a huge cheat of course and DH should shoot me for it. ;)
I just thought of him as the most bad-ass Predator ever, and he wasn't named in the movies, so I took that as my guide.
I might do a Aliens novel.
I didn't have any more backstory on the creature ship--just thought it was a cool image.
Thanks re Pol Pot. I had so much fun writing the croc.
Re it being slow to get into--I'm a firm believer in setting the scene. And since the island is the whole setting, it does take a little time to ramp up and get everything in place. My hope is readers will have the patience since then everything that happens after you can really *see* where it's taking place in relation to every other part of the island.
Thanks for the comments. Glad you liked it.
Jeff
I felt that Dutch should have been revived in a sequel. He was far too great a character, and he could have definitly have another stab at the Preds. I also enjoyed concrete jungle which explored Dutch's brother hoping to find out why Dutch disappeared after his last mission (predator). Dutch is definitly someone I would enjoy to see in another predator fight.
Anyone know any stores where you can find the novel?
Quote from: Predboy on Jan 28, 2009, 05:09:46 PM
Anyone know any stores where you can find the novel?
Books a million, I saw the book there but I got mine off of amazon.com
Quote from: Predboy on Jan 28, 2009, 05:09:46 PM
Anyone know any stores where you can find the novel?
Barnes and Noble
Borders
--_____--
It seems to be stocked pretty well in the chain stores. I appreciate you buying it. It seems to be selling well, but every bit helps. I'd really love to be able to do an Aliens novel. I think I mentioned I've got a really cool deep space idea set on a half-abandoned generation ship and involving the space jockey peoples.
Jeff
Spunds cool, and if you write anything else in the AVP universe Jeff, I am definitly buying it. Cause your book was just that good.
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Jan 31, 2009, 12:45:39 AM
It seems to be stocked pretty well in the chain stores. I appreciate you buying it. It seems to be selling well, but every bit helps. I'd really love to be able to do an Aliens novel. I think I mentioned I've got a really cool deep space idea set on a half-abandoned generation ship and involving the space jockey peoples.
Jeff
Do you know if they've re-negotiated the license then?
Nope, not yet sure. I hope I hear more soon because other projects are piling up rapidly. I've got a writing instruction book coming out in Sept., a Steampunk coffee table book next year, and a few anthologies.
But the one you guys might be interested in is called Finch and it's a noir thriller with a fantasy setting, coming out in November. It's got some of the same kinds of thrills and chills as my Predator novel.
If I did an Aliens novel I'd have to start writing it by early 2010 probably.
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
How's it comin? And... are you thinking of continuing on with the Predator style?
My chance to kiss Jeff's ass,but seriously.
I am loving the book,every Alien and Predator title from Dark Horse in the past 10 years has been just....dull,but I am loving this one.
Quote from: JeffVanderMeer on Dec 17, 2008, 10:42:34 PM
Ah--didn't know he/it was called that. That's one of the coolest things about the Alien movie and that would definitely be part of my novel if it's allowable by Dark Horse. (This is assuming they ask me to do an Aliens novel.)
You know, I'd assumed you intended the living ships you mentioned to be the Space Jockeys.
Is the notion of the Predators stealing technology in the DH bible?
Greetings Mr. VanderMeer, I thourghly enjoyed Predator: South China Sea, and after reading it, a question pops to my mind:
Is the character 'Onyx' actually Dutch (Arnie) from Predator 1?
loved the book it sort of revived my interest in predator i was looking for a star wars novel when i glanced over and saw your book i looked back up at the star wars novel with adrimal ackbar on the side, comparing the 2 and chose your novel as i walked up to the counter i thought to myself "this better not be a trap!"LOL
Best Predator book yet. It really captures the feel of "Predator" while inrtoducing new ideas. South China Sea all the way! Good Job Jeff!
I don't know if Mr. VanderMeer still checks this thread, but I just sent you an Email to see if you'd be interested in contributing to a project I've been working on.
Mr. VanderMeer, picked up your novel again and have been reading it and I have one question, when Tau asks Horia if he has a Romanian proverb for the situation and he says "No boobies here." what did it mean? Cause this has been bugging me for a while. Does it just simply mean no women around? Wanting sex before the could die? A joke at how women usually survive horror scenarios more than men? I mean maybe I'm overthinking it, but I just wanted to know what you had to say about it.