Posted by Still Collating...
- Apr 17, 2021, 11:31:04 PMI agree that the vanilla Alien in the game has quite a few flaws. The weird sense limitations (hiding around a table, or under one when the creature should be able to see you) and the tight leash that makes the Alien follow around the player a bit too closely were the biggest flaws for me. But they are just simple parameters that can be edited not too difficultly. The vanilla Alien needs more time and area to roam around and yes the Alien is too loud. But the basic principle, the possibilities of the AI are what's so cool to me.
I understand you didn't really get what you expected and that the AI isn't sentient like. Maybe they did promise a bit too much regarding the AI, I can agree there. Though personally, I feel in this game that the Alien has character and is actively fighting me, hunting me. The illusion worked for me. To me this Alien feels more alive than any other in the recent games. A:CM set the bar low for me in terms of AI (even though I really enjoyed the hell out of that broken game), so the AI in Isolation was quite a breath of fresh air.
I wish the future games would develop the AI even more to really give us that intelligent and terrifying hunter. I like my Aliens smart, fast and to be able to find me if I make mistakes. I hope these points aren't abandoned in future games.
Still, very excited and hopeful about Aliens: Fireteam! I hope their hardcore modes and tweaks are up to the task.
I understand you didn't really get what you expected and that the AI isn't sentient like. Maybe they did promise a bit too much regarding the AI, I can agree there. Though personally, I feel in this game that the Alien has character and is actively fighting me, hunting me. The illusion worked for me. To me this Alien feels more alive than any other in the recent games. A:CM set the bar low for me in terms of AI (even though I really enjoyed the hell out of that broken game), so the AI in Isolation was quite a breath of fresh air.
I wish the future games would develop the AI even more to really give us that intelligent and terrifying hunter. I like my Aliens smart, fast and to be able to find me if I make mistakes. I hope these points aren't abandoned in future games.
Still, very excited and hopeful about Aliens: Fireteam! I hope their hardcore modes and tweaks are up to the task.
Posted by lost dragon
- Apr 17, 2021, 06:46:09 PMYour perfectly entitled to your views.
I'm merely stating my personal experiences with 2 complete play throughs of 2 versions of the game on 2 Sony systems, after reading Previews of the game from various Games Press.
Garry Napper, lead Designer, was a second Creative Assembly source quoted/interviewed by them who stated the Xenomorph would actively observe the actions of the player and learn and adapt it's behavior.
That wasn't what i personally encountered on any playthrough as detailed in my earlier post.
I've spent over £90 on the game and invested countless hours with it.
It doesn't matter what has been written in the games press or talked about on video, my experience simply differed from what the press had me expecting.
This nigh-on sentient A. I for the Xenomorph, wasnt as described.
Creative Assembly did however deliver the NPC Human A. I they promised, these weren't faceless individuals that blindly attacked, they appeared petrified, warned you off, they gave a great impression of simply trying to survive.
That added a lot to the games atmosphere.
I'm not getting into an internet, you are wrong scenario here.
I've named my sources, detailed the instances and areas where the game fell flat from what was promised.
The ultimate Alien experience has yet to be created.
Isolation made steps in the right direction.
The first video actually just clarified at times what I suspected.. the A. I routines are built around existing A. I routines such as Behavior Trees in Halo and they unlock more branches, the longer the player spends in the game, thus as the commentator explains, giving the IMPRESSION the Xenomorph is learning from what the player is doing.
If all it's actually doing is unlocking predetermined behavior routines, that's not the sentient, unpredictable, we had to dig into the code to understand what it was doing and why, to our playtesters A. I... the team talk of in the games Previews.
The game director at times sends the Xenomorph to specific locations, as it tells the Xenomorph where the player is.
The video also talks of the A. I not being scripted, yet it is at key events, the game couldn't progress plot wise, if it wasn't.
Cutscenes etc trigger key events, meaning the Xenomorph has to be in key areas at crucial times.
Sure the set piece designers can try and disguise the fact it's waiting for the player by having numerous environmental factors taking place, klaxons blaring, lights flashing, steam and smoke obscuring vision, but fact is the Alien will wait for the player at key points.
It won't venture out or roam on it's own, it's scripted to stay within predetermined parameters and the video, by quoting Creative Assembly, explains why.
There would be no fear, no tension if the player didn't suspect it was lying in wait, observing the player.
I'm merely stating my personal experiences with 2 complete play throughs of 2 versions of the game on 2 Sony systems, after reading Previews of the game from various Games Press.
Garry Napper, lead Designer, was a second Creative Assembly source quoted/interviewed by them who stated the Xenomorph would actively observe the actions of the player and learn and adapt it's behavior.
That wasn't what i personally encountered on any playthrough as detailed in my earlier post.
I've spent over £90 on the game and invested countless hours with it.
It doesn't matter what has been written in the games press or talked about on video, my experience simply differed from what the press had me expecting.
This nigh-on sentient A. I for the Xenomorph, wasnt as described.
Creative Assembly did however deliver the NPC Human A. I they promised, these weren't faceless individuals that blindly attacked, they appeared petrified, warned you off, they gave a great impression of simply trying to survive.
That added a lot to the games atmosphere.
I'm not getting into an internet, you are wrong scenario here.
I've named my sources, detailed the instances and areas where the game fell flat from what was promised.
The ultimate Alien experience has yet to be created.
Isolation made steps in the right direction.
The first video actually just clarified at times what I suspected.. the A. I routines are built around existing A. I routines such as Behavior Trees in Halo and they unlock more branches, the longer the player spends in the game, thus as the commentator explains, giving the IMPRESSION the Xenomorph is learning from what the player is doing.
If all it's actually doing is unlocking predetermined behavior routines, that's not the sentient, unpredictable, we had to dig into the code to understand what it was doing and why, to our playtesters A. I... the team talk of in the games Previews.
The game director at times sends the Xenomorph to specific locations, as it tells the Xenomorph where the player is.
The video also talks of the A. I not being scripted, yet it is at key events, the game couldn't progress plot wise, if it wasn't.
Cutscenes etc trigger key events, meaning the Xenomorph has to be in key areas at crucial times.
Sure the set piece designers can try and disguise the fact it's waiting for the player by having numerous environmental factors taking place, klaxons blaring, lights flashing, steam and smoke obscuring vision, but fact is the Alien will wait for the player at key points.
It won't venture out or roam on it's own, it's scripted to stay within predetermined parameters and the video, by quoting Creative Assembly, explains why.
There would be no fear, no tension if the player didn't suspect it was lying in wait, observing the player.
Posted by BlueMarsalis79
- Apr 17, 2021, 05:46:04 PMI believe you're just fundamentally incorrect and the videos explain exactly why.
Posted by lost dragon
- Apr 17, 2021, 05:31:19 PMCreative Asdembly's Jude Bond promised Xenomorph A. I behavior routines, so immensely complicated, the creature was almost sentiment.
The Creature had learnt the behavior of playtester and learnt to combat their defensive measures..
A. I so unpredictable, even the coders weren't sure why the Big Chap acted as it did..
What did i encounter?
A creature whom, if i circled around a table, wouldn't have it's senses trigged..
A creature which happily ignored the NPC shooting it, instead going straight for an unarmed me, cowering under a trolley...
A creature that practically barged me out the way to investigate the noise maker I had thrown..
A creature that made no attempt to vary the time it took to return after being scared off by the flame thrower..
So much for learning, it just turned into a count to.. Flame!!, progress a bit, Flame!!! routine.
A creature with pre-determined patrol routines..
A creature that let me exploit it's animation sequence of dropping from a vent, so i could run past it..
Now if they had allowed it to use the environment more and say curl up and wait hidden in the environment to catch me completely off guard, then I would believe it was an evolution in A. I.
The much hyped Cat and Mouse Stealth went to pot early on, room entertainment changing after a cutscene..
Any feelings of fear, trepidation etc were all too soon replaced by frustration.
Big Chap far too noisy..
Sorry, unpopular opinion i know, but whilst a solid Alien experience, it was by no means the second coming the press made it out to be.
The Creature had learnt the behavior of playtester and learnt to combat their defensive measures..
A. I so unpredictable, even the coders weren't sure why the Big Chap acted as it did..
What did i encounter?
A creature whom, if i circled around a table, wouldn't have it's senses trigged..
A creature which happily ignored the NPC shooting it, instead going straight for an unarmed me, cowering under a trolley...
A creature that practically barged me out the way to investigate the noise maker I had thrown..
A creature that made no attempt to vary the time it took to return after being scared off by the flame thrower..
So much for learning, it just turned into a count to.. Flame!!, progress a bit, Flame!!! routine.
A creature with pre-determined patrol routines..
A creature that let me exploit it's animation sequence of dropping from a vent, so i could run past it..
Now if they had allowed it to use the environment more and say curl up and wait hidden in the environment to catch me completely off guard, then I would believe it was an evolution in A. I.
The much hyped Cat and Mouse Stealth went to pot early on, room entertainment changing after a cutscene..
Any feelings of fear, trepidation etc were all too soon replaced by frustration.
Big Chap far too noisy..
Sorry, unpopular opinion i know, but whilst a solid Alien experience, it was by no means the second coming the press made it out to be.
Posted by BlueMarsalis79
- Apr 17, 2021, 03:15:24 PMhttps://youtu.be/Nt1XmiDwxhY
https://youtu.be/_ZbV--8J4uA
https://youtu.be/9bbhJi0NBkk
https://youtu.be/6VBCXvfNlCM
https://youtu.be/P7d5lF6U0eQ
https://youtu.be/wNIfQzAOKT4
It is absolutely revolutionary.
Even apart from modifications to enhance the experience based upon your preferences.
That the majority of the time just amounts to tweaking what already exists on higher difficulties.
https://youtu.be/_ZbV--8J4uA
https://youtu.be/9bbhJi0NBkk
https://youtu.be/6VBCXvfNlCM
https://youtu.be/P7d5lF6U0eQ
https://youtu.be/wNIfQzAOKT4
It is absolutely revolutionary.
Even apart from modifications to enhance the experience based upon your preferences.
That the majority of the time just amounts to tweaking what already exists on higher difficulties.
Posted by Still Collating...
- Apr 17, 2021, 02:28:19 PMThe new OpenCAGE mod is perfect for someone wanting to create their perfect Alien Isolation experience. You can import other mods like the great Unpredictable Alien mod, even increase the free roaming parameters and tweak it to suit your liking. I literally wanted that but with an Alien that has super senses. I wanted rare but unpredictable encounters, with the Alien roaming far and wide and being able to see and hear me realistically like an apex predator would. I wanted it to be very very hard, but not for the alien to keep going in circles close to me for 10 minutes.
The AI has great potential, just needs some parameters to be tweaked and thanks to the new mod, I can create the perfect Alien horror experience for me.
The AI has great potential, just needs some parameters to be tweaked and thanks to the new mod, I can create the perfect Alien horror experience for me.
Posted by lost dragon
- Apr 17, 2021, 10:03:00 AMMy issue with Alien Isolation stems from the amount of hype magazines like Edge and Gamestm built for it's A. I at the time.
It simply created an unrealistic sense of expectation for myself.
One of my biggest issues with Alien Trilogy (Probe), AVP 2010 (Rebellion) and even Monolith with PC AVP II, was i didn't feel the nature of the Xenomorph species was respected well enough for my personal tastes.
Alien Isolation was apparently going to feature revolutionary, unpredictable Creature A. I, what I found was very similar A. I routines to The Evil Within (and later Outlast), which again for myself, ruined the sense of immersion.
Once you learnt you could simply run to checkpoint in certain areas, knew it's patrol routines, trigger points, the feeling of truly being hunted just wasn't there.
Like i say, I bought it on both Playstation 3 and 4,completed it on both, so unlike The Evil Within and Outlast, it's had some serious investment by myself, I abandoned these early on.
I think it's like a modern day The Thing experience for myself, if anyone can remember that from Xbox and Playstation 2.
The Trust gameplay mechanic was heavily hyped, but in reality heavily flawed when you played the game.
Hardware limitations, poor implementation?
I'm not sure, but it just soured the overall experience somewhat.
It simply created an unrealistic sense of expectation for myself.
One of my biggest issues with Alien Trilogy (Probe), AVP 2010 (Rebellion) and even Monolith with PC AVP II, was i didn't feel the nature of the Xenomorph species was respected well enough for my personal tastes.
Alien Isolation was apparently going to feature revolutionary, unpredictable Creature A. I, what I found was very similar A. I routines to The Evil Within (and later Outlast), which again for myself, ruined the sense of immersion.
Once you learnt you could simply run to checkpoint in certain areas, knew it's patrol routines, trigger points, the feeling of truly being hunted just wasn't there.
Like i say, I bought it on both Playstation 3 and 4,completed it on both, so unlike The Evil Within and Outlast, it's had some serious investment by myself, I abandoned these early on.
I think it's like a modern day The Thing experience for myself, if anyone can remember that from Xbox and Playstation 2.
The Trust gameplay mechanic was heavily hyped, but in reality heavily flawed when you played the game.
Hardware limitations, poor implementation?
I'm not sure, but it just soured the overall experience somewhat.
Posted by BlueMarsalis79
- Apr 16, 2021, 04:28:46 PMYeah more like:
Highs:
Alien Isolation
AVP Monolith
AVP Rebellion
Aliens Infestation
Mids:
AVP 2010
Alien Resurrection
Predator Concrete Jungle
AVP Extinction
Lows:
AVP Primal Hunt
Aliens Colonial Marines
Highs:
Alien Isolation
AVP Monolith
AVP Rebellion
Aliens Infestation
Mids:
AVP 2010
Alien Resurrection
Predator Concrete Jungle
AVP Extinction
Lows:
AVP Primal Hunt
Aliens Colonial Marines
Posted by razeak
- Apr 16, 2021, 04:09:45 PMI can't understand lol.
Also, Aliens: Infestation is a high on the DS.
Also, Aliens: Infestation is a high on the DS.
Posted by BlueMarsalis79
- Apr 11, 2021, 02:04:46 PMIf you think Alien Isolation's middling, I can understand why, but good shout with Alien Resurrection.
Posted by lost dragon
- Apr 11, 2021, 11:31:20 AMMixed feelings as having literally grown up with Aliens, then AVP games, it's always been a case of highs and lows.
The highs:
Just going to list formats i played them on.
Aliens Electric Dreams C64
Alien 3 MD and SNES
AVP Capcom Arcade
Aliens Konami Arcade
AVP Jaguar
Alien Resurrection Playstation
AVP Rebellion on PC
AVP II Monolith PC.
The lows:
Aliens USA Activision C64
AVP SNES
AVP GB
Aliens:Comic Book Adventure PC
Aliens C. M 360
AVP PSP
Then an awful lot of middle ground titles.
Alien Isolation PS3+PS4
Alien Trilogy Playstation
Alien 3 GB
Alien 3 The Gun Sega Arcade
AVP Extinction Xbox
AVP:Primal Hunt Exp. PC
AVP Playstation 3
I don't think Rebellion are the team to do another AVP title, based on their last effort.
There's ahem, an awful lot of talk on social media from Jane Whittaker about doing a crowd funded AVP Spiritual Successor, Project Xenomorph, but talk is currently all it is.
How many Aliens/AVP titles line the cutting room floor as is on countless platforms, some never going beyond concept documents (Beyond Software's AVP II for Jaguar, Atari's Jaguar CD AVP wish list)
I've also seen attempts to remake Jaguar AVP in ZDoom show promise, but get abandoned.
I'm honestly not holding out hope for the kind of flagship Aliens games i once knew.
The highs:
Just going to list formats i played them on.
Aliens Electric Dreams C64
Alien 3 MD and SNES
AVP Capcom Arcade
Aliens Konami Arcade
AVP Jaguar
Alien Resurrection Playstation
AVP Rebellion on PC
AVP II Monolith PC.
The lows:
Aliens USA Activision C64
AVP SNES
AVP GB
Aliens:Comic Book Adventure PC
Aliens C. M 360
AVP PSP
Then an awful lot of middle ground titles.
Alien Isolation PS3+PS4
Alien Trilogy Playstation
Alien 3 GB
Alien 3 The Gun Sega Arcade
AVP Extinction Xbox
AVP:Primal Hunt Exp. PC
AVP Playstation 3
I don't think Rebellion are the team to do another AVP title, based on their last effort.
There's ahem, an awful lot of talk on social media from Jane Whittaker about doing a crowd funded AVP Spiritual Successor, Project Xenomorph, but talk is currently all it is.
How many Aliens/AVP titles line the cutting room floor as is on countless platforms, some never going beyond concept documents (Beyond Software's AVP II for Jaguar, Atari's Jaguar CD AVP wish list)
I've also seen attempts to remake Jaguar AVP in ZDoom show promise, but get abandoned.
I'm honestly not holding out hope for the kind of flagship Aliens games i once knew.
Posted by piff
- Feb 13, 2021, 06:06:41 PMthis decade doesn't look good for any kind of corporate backed Alien games, do they even have anything on the agenda?
they wont even develop anything in VR and I think they are just being lazy
they wont even develop anything in VR and I think they are just being lazy
Posted by Machiko Naguchi
- Feb 02, 2021, 06:44:34 PMQuote from: [cancerblack] on Dec 31, 2020, 06:49:23 PM
In the time since Isolation, there have been several traditional games drop for the franchise, and although I'm aware you're talking about videogames, it's worth pointing out that there's been AvP by Prodos Games, the newly released Aliens boardgame from GFNine that they can't keep on the shelves because it's so popular, and the fantastic RPG by Fria Ligan that sells out entire print runs faster than they can keep up with.
Not to mention the deck building games and probably a few others I'm forgetting.
Alien and AvP gaming is by no means dead, it just seems to be taking a holiday on the tabletop side of things at the minute.
The recent Bug Hunt dice/tile game is also very well done I thought and provides another different type of game experience.
Posted by PraetorianX101
- Dec 31, 2020, 09:15:25 PMQuote from: Kailem on Dec 31, 2020, 08:10:42 PMThat sounds great. I'd love to see an AvP game that offered an experience like that. The closest thing I can think of that emulates what you described is AvP2's Survivor mode and AvP 2010's Infestation mode, which were my favorite game modes to play. As for single-player, I really enjoyed AvP 2010's marine campaign since Rebellion did a good job imo with establishing a tense and suspenseful atmosphere with their excellent use of lighting and great sound design. Plus, the Alien's AI was surprisingly good too as they would often try to sneak up on the player and avoid gunfire. Anyway, the prospect of Rebellion, or whoever decides to take up the task of making another game, continuing to improve on this formula is something that I'm very eager to see. Hopefully we won't have to wait too long for a new game to release.Quote from: PraetorianX101 on Dec 31, 2020, 07:42:58 PMQuote from: Kailem on Dec 31, 2020, 06:30:47 PMThat's true. We've been quite fortunate to get as many games as we have. It's just that replaying the games has reignited my desire for more games set in this universe. FPS, Survival Horror, or even Strategy games, like AvP: Extinction (which I really loved)... there's so much potential, so I guess I'm just a little disappointed that there isn't more being done with the franchise videogame-wise that is of the same level of quality as Isolation.
To be honest I feel like Alien and Predator have been luckier than most in terms of at least having a couple of games made somewhat recently with at least one more on the way. That's a lot more than many other things have had over the past decade.
Oh yeah, for sure I'd love another AVP to be announced sooner rather than later as well. I still feel like the concept hasn't been done to its full potential in the multiplayer front. As much as AVP2's was fun back in the day, it was still basically just an arena shooter with Aliens and Predators. I'd like something more slow-paced and tension-focused, like Rainbow Six Siege or Counter-Strike where the match plays out over a number of rounds with each player only having one life per round, so it makes things naturally "scarier."
Obviously something with another great single-player campaign would be awesome too, but either way I'd be very happy if we ever did get another one, whatever form it might take.
Posted by Kailem
- Dec 31, 2020, 08:10:42 PMQuote from: PraetorianX101 on Dec 31, 2020, 07:42:58 PMQuote from: Kailem on Dec 31, 2020, 06:30:47 PMThat's true. We've been quite fortunate to get as many games as we have. It's just that replaying the games has reignited my desire for more games set in this universe. FPS, Survival Horror, or even Strategy games, like AvP: Extinction (which I really loved)... there's so much potential, so I guess I'm just a little disappointed that there isn't more being done with the franchise videogame-wise that is of the same level of quality as Isolation.
To be honest I feel like Alien and Predator have been luckier than most in terms of at least having a couple of games made somewhat recently with at least one more on the way. That's a lot more than many other things have had over the past decade.
Oh yeah, for sure I'd love another AVP to be announced sooner rather than later as well. I still feel like the concept hasn't been done to its full potential in the multiplayer front. As much as AVP2's was fun back in the day, it was still basically just an arena shooter with Aliens and Predators. I'd like something more slow-paced and tension-focused, like Rainbow Six Siege or Counter-Strike where the match plays out over a number of rounds with each player only having one life per round, so it makes things naturally "scarier."
Obviously something with another great single-player campaign would be awesome too, but either way I'd be very happy if we ever did get another one, whatever form it might take.
